The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
You know, I’ve only just spotted a specific absurdity of the LNS decision. I’m sure that someone else must have highlighted it…
LNS said that the undertaking of a Club:
“…would at least comprise its name the contracts with its players, its manager and other staff and its ground, even though they may change from time to time.”
But at the same time, he opined that a Club has no:
“legal personality, separate from and additional to, the legal personality of its owner and operator.”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/143094729/spl-commission-reasons-for-decision-of-12-september-2012
So club, has no legal personality, but the undertaking of a Club includes contracts with players. 😳 😯
There was me thinking the contracts were with the company that had become insolvent.
A serious point though which I’ve made before.
LNS seems to have mistakenly used the meaning of undertaking found in “The Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006”
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/246/pdfs/uksi_20060246_en.pdf
Which says:
“a transfer of an undertaking, business or part of an undertaking or business situated immediately before the transfer in the United Kingdom to another person where there is a transfer of an economic entity which retains its identity”
However, the SPL Articles stated that:
“In these Articles:-2006 Act means the Companies Act 2006 including any statutory modification or re-enactments thereof for the time being in force;
…
Unless the context otherwise requires, words or expressions contained in these Articles bear the same meaning as in the 2006 Act but excluding any statutory modification thereof not in force when these Articles or the relevant parts thereof are adopted.”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/143094724/Spl-Articles-of-Association-as-at-22-October-2012
So he should have noticed:
“(1) In the Companies Acts “undertaking” means—
(a) a body corporate or partnership, or
(b) an unincorporated association”
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/pdfs/ukpga_20060046_en.pdf
Rangers FC was incorporated in 1899 so cannot be an unincorporated association. It does not constitute a partnership.
So, the definition in the SPL Articles:
“Club means the undertaking of an association football club”
is simply translated:
“Club means the body corporate of an association football club”
Clearly, since the current version of Rangers has a different body corporate from the original, it is is a different Club.
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
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Great summary. Sevco 5088, if CW so chooses, is where the action will be.
Exiledcelt says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:06 am
‘…John Clarke – some Bears know Jim Spence is right – about 6000 of them at least…’
—
Very grateful for that link,Exiled.
I was in Australia at the time and missed any reference to the ‘Evening Times’ piece.
New Blog from big Phil.
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 36m
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/how-the-klan-lost-over-downfall/#more-3994 …
A rousing story of how the bad guys lost and the truth was told.
#Downfall one year one…
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
================
Outstanding post.
HirsutePursuit says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:42 pm
13 0 Rate This
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Bravo, particularly the point about the players. We understood that they had all become free agents, so had at least some of the football authorities.
Pity these points can’t be put before Mr LNS for clarification 😯
theoldcourse@11:04am
Toc gies a break.I still struggle trying to get my head round the Company’s Act,Cencos,Novation thingys without having to cope with Genesis devices and Vulcan rituals.
By the way,did Spock’s chakra ‘Tupe’ over to Dr McCoy?
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
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HirsutePursuit says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:42 pm
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Two absolutely outstandings posts.
Explains the main crux of the big problems in scottish football.
Problem 1: The whole sham of the CVA failure and asset purchase sale.
Problem 2: The subsequent shenanigans in order to place/transfer an entity playing in blue at ibrox stadium into Scottish football without allowing others to apply.
Problem 3: After 1 and 2 how to cover up the conspiracy and not terminate the membership of the NEW CLUB for the cheating of the OLD CLUB.
And the confusion/delusion which followed and is on going and until resolved will affect Scottish football for generations. (Probably affect scottish football negatively, only time will tell)
Returning to lurking….
Scottish football needs a strong arbroath .
Scottish football needs a strong TSFM.
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/282-jim-spence-rangers-jibes?
The infamous Rangers(in Liquidation) blogger is hurting. . .still out to get Jim Spence.
What does this blogger want? Answer – Jim Spence to tell the Truth.
Irony or what ?
I noticed he does ‘a lot of research”.
Here’s a short word he can look up very quickly and opine. . .
LIQUIDATION !!!
jimlarkin says:
September 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm
I read that earlier. Shocking piece.
Someone else now prepared to make a stand (of sorts) against the The Blue Meanies …
@GrahamSpiers
My impression is a majority of people in Scottish football view Rangers as a re-started club. Which makes this @bbcjimspence tiff a bit odd.
2:49pm – 9 Sep 13
A “re-started club” my bahooky. An attempt there to fudge the issue again while appearing to support a journalistic colleague. :slamb:
James Doleman @jamesdoleman 11m
One heartening outcome of the @bbcjimspence stramash is that everyone can now stop pretending to take Chris Graham seriously.
Tic 6709 says:
September 9, 2013 at 2:14 pm
Phil’s blog piece reflects really what I raised yesterday, The Rankers Talban exist and Graham is possibly the chief Mullah.
Can someone close to Mr Speirs let him know that this life is not a rehearsal for another to come,well if it is he is going to find himself at the wrong check in desk,the one marked squirrel,s this way.
JLeeHooker
Actually the phrase “re-started club” accurately describes the situation on the ground. There was a break, with all that means, and now the club has been restarted, with one title.
This is where the sevco/rangers thing starts to lose me. I get that a number of people won’t be happy until they are as dead as a Norwegian Blue, and if that’s what gets you up in the morning, fair enough. However, I can’t help feeling that had Celtic gone under, that many of us, (probably myself included), would be arguing that the spirit lived on in whatever new Celtic rose from the ashes. There is a strong element of the the king is dead, long live the king in every supporter faced with this situation.
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Thanks Ecobhoy – Outstanding post.
Fantastic explanation of the role of Sevco5088 and remaining outstanding related questions. Really clear – even I can follow it!
For non-experts like me, it is really helpful to get this kind of blow-by-blow explanation.
An excellent piece by Ian Fraser, which once again highlights why the powers at be appear to be fairly relaxed about our wee footballing scandal. Its simply how UK PLC operates these days….
http://www.ianfraser.org/britain-is-fast-turning-into-a-banana-republic-wilfully-blind-to-corruption/
briggsbhoy, I demand the credit for calling him a Mullah.
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Tic 6709 says:
September 8, 2013 at 8:11 pm
briggsbhoy says:
September 8, 2013 at 6:51 pm
If anyone speaks out or speaks ill of the Glasgow Rankers who is it amongst the Rankers Taliban that issues the Fatwas ?
================================
I think Mullah Chris Graham could be a candidate.
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm
JLeeHooker
Actually the phrase “re-started club” accurately describes the situation on the ground. There was a break, with all that means, and now the club has been restarted, with one title.
This is where the sevco/rangers thing starts to lose me. I get that a number of people won’t be happy until they are as dead as a Norwegian Blue, and if that’s what gets you up in the morning, fair enough. However, I can’t help feeling that had Celtic gone under, that many of us, (probably myself included), would be arguing that the spirit lived on in whatever new Celtic rose from the ashes. There is a strong element of the the king is dead, long live the king in every supporter faced with this situation.
________________________________________________________________________________
Ideal scenario – if Rangers came out and said something along the lines of:
“Guys, we got ourselves in a real financial mess through nobody’s fault but our own. We are genuinely sorry especially to all our creditors which include you as the tax payer. While it is within your right to kick us out of the game altogether, we are asking you to give us another chance and admit us back in at whatever level you see fit. As an acknowledgement for doing this we will drop the superiority attitude and will attempt to work our way through the leagues based on sporting merit and fair play”
…then I would be happy to see them compete in Scottish football. Since they have not done that I want it clearly stated that they are a new club with one fourth tier league to their name.
I understand that in the heart of the supporters they are the same team they have always followed but while they go around threatening anyone who disagrees with their WATP assertions then yes, I would be happy to see them go the way of the dodo and be consigned to oblivion.
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm
5 1 Rate This
However, I can’t help feeling that had Celtic gone under, that many of us, (probably myself included), would be arguing that the spirit lived on in whatever new Celtic rose from the ashes.
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I don’t have any issue with any The Rangers supporters claiming the spirit of the old club lives on in the new club. It’s the claiming of the 54 league titles etc that offends me as in doing so (with the connivance of the authorities) they are taking the rest of us for idiots.
Tic 6709 says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm
😆 Aye yi can have it 😆 In my original piece I was going to use the word Mufti as they apparently are usually the ones who actually issue fatwas.
A mufti (Arabic: مفتي muftī ; Turkish: müftü ) is a Sunni Islamic scholar who is an interpreter or expounder of Islamic law (Sharia and fiqh).[1] In religious administrative terms, a mufti is roughly equivalent to a deacon to a Sunni population. A muftiate or diyanet is a council of muftis.
Don’t you love the last sentence ” A mufiate or Diyanet is a council of muftis” Any collective pronouncements from Ibrokes should be referred to as one from “the bunch of Muftis” 😆
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm
——
Very well said, Scapa. There is an awful lot of drum-banging about how (Old) Rangers are definitely, nae arguments, deid – and anyone who intimates any kind of divergence from this is roundly ridiculed.
It’s very difficult to know for sure how fans of other clubs would react to a similar situation at their own home town club (or one 100 miles away that they happen to non-glory-huntingly support, for that matter), but I suspect that their attitude would be broadly similar to that of the average bear.
The bear in the street has little interest in the behind-the-scenes nonsense. They saw their club go into administration (whatever that is), but they were still there playing at the start of the next season – having been dumped into Div 3 for reasons that same average bear probably only partially understands. Administration was a minor hiccup.
McCoist, Ibrox and Walter were (almost) constant, cost-cutting had to be done (which is why the big players are away) and as far as they can see their club is on the way back up, making the journey with sleeves rolled up and applying gritty determination despite the array of “enemies” doing their damnedest to keep them from their rightful place. Do not overestimate the average bear.
The clever bears feed the average bears with selected titbits in order to keep them onside. This has been very successful, as a bear’s memory span seems to be about 5 minutes – so the promise of a new spoonful of honey blanks out the memory of previous spoons not materialising. This highly cheeky and patronising ploy has preserved an invaluable income stream without any break. Good work, really.
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm
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I have often said, I have no truck with those who wish to categorise their “club” as a spiritual entity that can be transferred between different corporate entities.
As I see it, Charles Green successfully preached to and evangelised the old club’s congregation. For Rangers fans, with their old deity gone, there is no real option other than to convert to the new church of Sevco. So, at that level, I have no real problem with fans of the old club who see the new club as a spiritual continuation or successor to the original.
Where I have a problem is in the real world. Where I have a problem is the role played by people who are not (or should not be) indoctrinated in the religious fervour of Rangersitis.
No cult should have undue influence on the people who are meant to be impartial and who are paid simply to enforce the Articles & Rules as they are written.
No cult should be able to enforce their own bizarre belief sets on the mainstream.
Do most shoppers think Woolworths is the same retailer as the one where we used to get our pick’n mix?
Do most drivers think the cars currently badged as MG’s are from the same motor manufacturer that used to be publicly owned.
So why would most people think that the football club formed by Charles Green is the same club that won the European Cup-Winners Cup in 1972?
Why would anyone believe that Charles Green was able to “buy” another club’s history?
I don’t wish to denigrate anyone’s spiritual beliefs; but the idea, to me is simply absurd.
Of course, I am not a follower of that cult.
JLeeHooker says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Ideal scenario – if Rangers came out and said something along the lines of:
“Guys, we got ourselves in a real financial mess through nobody’s fault but our own. We are genuinely sorry especially to all our creditors which include you as the tax payer. While it is within your right to kick us out of the game altogether, we are asking you to give us another chance and admit us back in at whatever level you see fit. As an acknowledgement for doing this we will drop the superiority attitude and will attempt to work our way through the leagues based on sporting merit and fair play”……….
…then I would be happy to see them compete in Scottish football. Since they have not done that I want ……………….
to see them and their undignified superiority complex and feelings of entitlement shrivel up and die, never to darken our door again.
Fixed that for you 🙂
ecobhoy
You are Craig Whyte 🙂 (making a case for his claim to be a party to the purchase)
Hirsute Pursuit
You are not Campbell Ogilvie. 🙂 (making a case he would rather were not made.)
Oh and newtz. Cap doffed. I have a timeline on the wee tax case shennagins from Oct 2010 to Feb 2012 and even there later revelations that Canpbell Ogilvie set up the first DOS arrangement that ultimately produced the wee tax case have to be factored in. I have an idea of the effort involved and that was some trail you were blazing.
wottpi says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:01 pm
That wee act of contrition would be a major step forward and perhaps the consequences of living a lie will bring it about. (No surrender notwithstanding)
Can anyone answer this
Rangers the “CLUB”
is it just rangers that have an immortal club or does every company have one? So, if they oculd find the money, could St Mirren put themselves £500M in debt, buying all the best players and winning the SPFL and getting into Europe – only to go bust but simply wiping the slate clean after bagging a few titles?
Are there now 2 Airdrionions? One without a company to fund it, no stadium to play in and no players and one that used to be Clydebank and playing in the SPFL?
On the CLUB that is Rangers – what does it do?
Does it ACTUALLY hold the SFA membership – or is that Sevco Scotland Ltd – now TRFC?
Does the CLUB have an SPFL license – or is that Sevco?
Are the players registered to a club or a company
Are the players paid by the club or a company
Who sells tickets for the games – the club or a company
Does this club pay any kind of tax, NI, VAT? Should it?
Does the club have any kind of board, board meetings, minutes, management structure? What is it and who gets to see this?
Can anyone answer this to me? Is the idea of there being a “Club” in fact a myth – what is there that exists to confirm the existence of the CLUB?
Angus1983 says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:51 pm
0 1 Rate This
It’s very difficult to know for sure how fans of other clubs would react to a similar situation at their own home town club (or one 100 miles away that they happen to non-glory-huntingly support, for that matter), but I suspect that their attitude would be broadly similar to that of the average bear.
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I have to differ with you on that. The majority of Rangers supporters I have come across in the last 20 years (of all levels of educational/financial/social/professional standing etc) are unique in that the feelings of deeply ingrained superiority they derive from following that club (nourished by years of fawning by the media) makes them unable to deal with the reality of the situation in the same way that supporters of all other clubs (well used to lack of success/not getting the breaks from referees/negative media coverage etc etc) would.
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:31 pm
‘ttp://www.ianfraser.org/britain-is-fast-turning-into-a-banana-republic-wilfully-blind-to-corruption/’
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An interesting link.
There was a time not so long ago when I had hoped that Scottish independence would be fully achieved and that sometime in the ( relatively few) remaining years of my life I would be a citizen in a free democratic republic in which ars.holes like princes would have no place, and our government in that republic would be infinitely more transparent than that of the banana-monarchy to our south.
The incredible protection afforded to the now dead RFC and the new club set up by extremely banana-republic- type con men has, I’m afraid, caused a re-think.
A financially corrupt UK banana-monarchy might be a better option than an ideologically corrupt Scottish Republic.
HP et al
In a strictly legalistic sense you are, of course, entirely correct. But, football clubs are often a very real part of people’s identity, with all the good and bad baggage that that can bring.
For my money there are two categories of people in the Rangers “lunatic majority”:
The largest section don’t seem to know any better, and are to be pitied for their ignorance, as much as despised for their malevolence.
The smaller and much more despicable section, are those who are educated, and/or smart enough to know better, but nonetheless peddle their bile, and manipulate their less than bright brethren
If some good has come from the treatment of Jim Spence, it may be that the despicable section, will no longer find it so easy to get on TV, and into the press, and spout their muck unchallenged.
.
Apologies for the typo in my previous post: “derive” should of course have been “derived”
john clarke says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:16 pm
“A financially corrupt UK banana-monarchy might be a better option than an ideologically corrupt Scottish Republic.”
John, that made me smile. Check out wikileaks for details of our, god help us, Trade Ambassador, The Duke of York’s foul mouthed tirade against the busybodies who try to prevent UK companies from bribing whatever foreign johnny is getting in their way…….
briggsbhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:48 pm
6 0 Rate This
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Unsurprisingly, some of the fatwans turn out to be mufties.
john clarke says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:16 pm
===========================
Without wishing to re-ignite another round of Alex Salmond bashing, the current situation arose while Scotland’s corporate landscape is regulated from London.
I’m not even sure if there is any connection between the political & economic power held by the people of Scotland – through the Scottish Parliament – and the (alleged) corrupt acts of a relatively small number of people who have become involved in Scottish football.
To be honest, I have no idea if things would have been any better if the financial lawmakers were based in Edinburgh. 😕
…but it could scarcely have been worse. 😡 🙁
Not really a Trekkie, more of a Star Wars fan,
Some good and bad material to ponder in no particular order bit OT , hopefully humorous?
Klingons (The Rangers fans) trying to Klingon to everything that was Rangers.
Jabba (JT) gets a mention now and then, writing for the darkside, BBC, SPL SFA, constantly setting their phasers to stun instead of kill (died)
ibrox .. deathstar
Yoda, just put a bonnet and a wee tash on him.(saved a club)
Soran, (-SDM) he actually killed a club, and all because of some stupid inter dimensional ego trip.
Jedi council (TSFM) With all of us may the Truth be, and may the peace of this site be ours, a place open to thought and speech, a realm of mutual respect, and a haven of shared noble purpose. Let us take these posts together, with no one above the others. May we work together, free from the restraints of ego and jealousy, at this gathering and all others to come.
Jar Jar binks (CG) is one of the most annoying characters ever to stumble across Scottish fitba . He’s loud, obnoxious, clumsy, and speaks with an annoying accent ,also has big hands too!
Sybok (CW) an enigmatic spiv , takes the Enterprise (club) to a planet that he believes to be the true Sha Ka Ree (universe’s divine creation) . Once there, he encounters a shimmering mystical manifestation that sure seems to be some kind of god(rangers fans) – only to get suspicious when this so-called deity demands they turn over their club. Turns out it’s not a god at all, just some weird spiv. mean-spirited being manipulating everyone for his own ends. Hate when that happens lol
Khan (WS) a tragic hero of sorts, undone by his own desperate need to stay quite.
The Sith (SMSM) is an organization whose members dedicate themselves to the dark side of the Force, The Sith members, known as Journalists, traditionally use the. The Sith are the archenemies of the Jedi council unlike them, their main weapon is not telling the truth. They only exist in the brotherhood a master and some apprentices, and are the main antagonists for not telling it as it really is.
Star Fleet Command (good guys) Gibbons, Cosgrove, Spence, MacGiollaBhain , McConville, Daly, RTC add as necessary……
See how easy it is to get things mixed up who’s who and what’s what…….
Could have spent more time on it but you get my drift and the dog needs walked.
But good eventually conquers evil, well in the movies anyway (shame it doesn’t always happen in real life)
May the force be with you, as long as it isn’t Strathclyde’s finest?
I’ll get my lightsaber (copy right acknowledged to whomever)
Auldheid says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:11 pm
My tongue is just about firmly in cheek.
Posted similar to JLH many moons ago and I do believe that had their been any half decent statement coming out of Ibrox then many Scottish football fans would have welcomed the ‘new club’ back into the fold. (Many of us would probably be in a different place than we find ourselves today).
However the shennanignas of the past year has diminished that possibility. Of course the problem was that the ship was rudderless at the ‘official level’ and Green, as a mouth piece, was only ever interested with lining his own pockets thus he circled up the wagons to keep the gullible onside. The fans groups could have said more but when you look at the dullards who somehow manage to get in front of the camera to represent them then you can see why they were never going to speak up.
The manager could have taken a lead but he chose not to and, in trying to secure his own highly inflated salary, just sides with anyone who will keep him in the job.
Lastly, your pals at the SFA could have told the men from Ibrox how it was and what was now expected of them so as to point the way forward for the whole of Scottish Football but as you know they bottled it big time.
Therefore my guess is that there are probably more people now who would happily see the Govan club head down the toilet again and cheer at the prospect.
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
So we have repeated references to ‘the directors’ of Sevco 5088 and yet there was only the one director – viz Charles Green – shown in Companies House records up until April 2013 when Earley and Whyte went public. But they weren’t publicly notified as directors at the time of the Board meeting on 31 October 2012 and indeed in a statement to AIM on 24 April 2013 RIFC described the Earley and Whyte directorships as ‘false claims’. So who are these mystery Sevco 5088 directors repeatedly mentioned in the TRFCL Board minute?
And why if Earley and Whyte had falsely claimed to be directors wef 9 May 2012 did Charles Green issue termination notices of their directorships and state the start date for them was 9 May 2012? Surely the correct step would have been to state there was no start date because they weren’t legally directors and I am surprised that FFW appears to have let this go.
The TRFCL Board minute of 31/10/2012 said ‘the directors’ of Sevco 5088 had agreed the Board structure and shareholding of Sevco Scotland would be the same as Sevco 5088. In terms of public notification that appeared to be the case from 29 May 2012 until 28 June 2012 when Green was the sole director of Sevco Scotland and also publicly appeared to be the sole director of Sevco 5088. But on 29 June 2012: Murray, Ahmad and Stockbridge all became directors of Sevco Scotland but this wasn’t replicated in Sevco 5088 unless there were three other directors who hadn’t been made public.
A curious reference to Founder Shares is noted in the TRFCL 31/10/2012 minute that 2,199,900 shares were allotted to Charles Green in Sevco Scotland but that shareholding isn’t publicly replicated in Sevco 5088 so where is the ‘mirroring’ of shareholding in the two companies?
————————————-
Excellent post, ecobhoy.
I raised the issue of the Sevco 5088 ‘directors’ yesterday, and I’m glad you followed it up here. Although it’s possible that it is just a typo or loose terminology (as you originally thought), the repeated references raised a flag in my head and made me think something is being covered up.
Regarding the ‘mirroring’ of the board structure and shareholding between the two Sevcos, I took that as meaning only the INITIAL structure would be duplicated, ie Sevco Scotland would be set up with the same director(s) and shareholding (including the proposed placement shareholders) existing AT THAT TIME. It surely would not make sense to maintain that duplication with respect to future changes in the two companies from that point on.
Attributed to Mr. Orwell. Sums up Sevco fans.
To enforce the lies of the present, it is necessary to erase the truths of the past.
Am I correct in saying that as there still appears to be an oustanding matter to be resolved re the supposed requirement for the Requisitioners to issue “a vote of confidence and continued support for the current Directors” by end of play today to satify Mather’s conditions for withdrawing the Requisition we should expect an AIM Regulatory News item sometime later tonight or tomorrow?
wottpi says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:39 pm
IIRC on the old RTC blog, the majority view was that Ranger’s in Div 1 would be a result. then along came Sandy and Ali to lead the lemmings over the nearest cliff, and the rest is history, (or, very soon may become history now i come to think on it.)
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:19 pm
2 0 Rate This
HP et al
In a strictly legalistic sense you are, of course, entirely correct. But, football clubs are often a very real part of people’s identity, with all the good and bad baggage that that can bring.
======================================
I think this is the point I was trying to make.
For good or bad, many people see themselves as “Rangers men”. That is more to do with their sense of identity – as a direct connection to their “tribe” or “church” – than it is manifesting an appreciation of the talents of a football team.
Sport generally is tribal in nature (whether by religion, geographic, nationality or whatever) and the corporate niceties are irrelevant at such a basic level.
On the other hand, no sport’s regulators should be biased towards or fearful of any one tribe – no matter how large or intimidating that tribe is perceived to be.
Excellent summaries by Newtz and Ecojohn over the last 24 hours.
There are a couple of points worthy of further emphasis
On April 24 2013 the SFA wrote to Malcolm Murray asking in effect why 5088 assigned it’s whole rights and interests to Scotland. They also asked what , if any financial consideration had taken place for this assignation.
The SFA wanted a reply by May 1st. I would not be surprised if the SFA are still waiting, given Malcolm Murray has gone, and the only person he could have asked , Charles Green, had already gone by the time of the SFA letter.
The SFA , to use their own words. Needed to be “completely satisfied about the provenance of RFC’s title to the club”
To add to HP’s excellent list of questions, I would ask the SFA exactly that.
The second point of emphasis is on the Duff & Phelps CVA proposal
This confirmed that 5088 had an irrevocable agreement to proceed with the asset purchase or share purchase, and that Duff and Phelps were obliged to notify creditors should 5088 not be able to do so.
There was not letter of notification from Duff and Phelps, and they would probably excuse themselves on the basis Scotland was a successor company to 5088. That indeed is the only defence available to them under the CVA offer letter.
So we know that all relevant parties viewed Scotland as a successor company to 5088. Both companies are now in the RIFC plc group, which seems to support the successor claim.
The problem is that , a condition of the SFA granting membership was C Whyte have no involvement. The SFA themselves appear to believe they have been duped. The question is , what are they going to do about that ?
HirsutePursuit says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:57 pm
Agreed, sometimes I’m thick 😆
scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Think you are right. I suspect the attitudes amongst many who sympathised with their fellow fans on the basis of “there by the grace of God goes I and my club” hardened pretty quickly after the bile began to spout.
It would be interesting to know if that was just the ‘natural’ Rangers way or was the whole stance manufactured as part of a wider plan and acted out by puppets who now can’t backtrack and have to maintain their position, no matter what.
wottpi says:
September 9, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Orchestrated by the despicable element, me thinks
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
NAILED IT…..Excellent stuff, for my money….dead right!
theoldcourse says:
September 9, 2013 at 11:04 am
25 1 Rate This
A littel bit off topic but a wee bit of light heartedness nonetheless. I had the pleasure of sitting down to watch the new Star Trek – Into Darkness movie over the weekend. Its basicaly a re-telling of the Wrath of Khan storyline from Star Trek II. However my mind drifted back to that movie where Spock died but transferred his chakra to Dr McCoy and was then miraculously resurrected through the use of the Genesis device and mystical Vulcan rituals. He of course claims he is the same Spock but I think he should henceforth be know as The Mr Spock. Also, going back to the new film. There is a scene where the two Spocks are on screen at the same time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Are you sure it wasn’t just two sides of Leonard Nimoy?
http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/57039459/The+Two+Sides+of+Leonard+Nimoy+2ofSpock.jpg
Here is the reason the new/old club is important.
One one side we have folks being told that the world is against them – they were thrown out of the SPL, had the SPL money stolen from them, kicked into the bottom league, had players stolen and were not allowed to sign new ones and also denied a place in Europe all because of a French word beginning with big….ending with try!
In the real world, the consequences of going into administration/liquidation meant the club had to start again – it was decided that SPL was not the fair place for them to start anew and they were placed into bottom division ahead of other contenders like Spartans. New clubs cannot play in Europe – players TUPED over from old company and transfer ban was requested by TRFC instead of any alternative by way of 5 way agreement.
Personally I don’t care if they live or die – but would like the new club to stop repeating the nonsense that the rest of Scottish football were intent on kicking them when they were down when it was the very opposite of what happened.
If this is not fixed, I would advise all parties for any first match involving TRFC v Celtic to find the safest place possible (could be North Korea) to watch it. The authorities are creating an absolute mess with their panderings to the spivs in order to sell a few STs to the hard of thinking.
BigGav says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:42 pm
ecobhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Excellent post, ecobhoy.
I raised the issue of the Sevco 5088 ‘directors’ yesterday, and I’m glad you followed it up here. Although it’s possible that it is just a typo or loose terminology (as you originally thought), the repeated references raised a flag in my head and made me think something is being covered up.
Regarding the ‘mirroring’ of the board structure and shareholding between the two Sevcos, I took that as meaning only the INITIAL structure would be duplicated, ie Sevco Scotland would be set up with the same director(s) and shareholding (including the proposed placement shareholders) existing AT THAT TIME. It surely would not make sense to maintain that duplication with respect to future changes in the two companies from that point on.
=====================================================
Gav – although I had previously dismissed ‘directors’ plural I went back after you raised the point to have another read and think so the post that followed is all your fault 😆 I actually sent you a PM to explain my error and let you know about the post.
In a sense I think you’re right about the ‘replicating’ being for the initial stage only but when and where does the initial stage stop? Is it with only Green as sole director of both Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland?
Or is it the stage which quickly followed in Sevco Scotland with Green, Ahmad, Stockbridge and Murray on the Board. The original ‘mirror’ for Sevco 5088 would be Green, Whyte and Earley and I speculate Rizvi. There is a lot of evidence that these four were all actively involved in fund raising and wheeler-dealing with regard to the CVA/APA and D&P. Of course it would make sense for both Green and Whyte to keep the involvement of Rizvi under wraps.
I truly believe on 9 May 2012 we had Green, Whyte, Earley and Rizvi or his proxy as directors of Sevco 5088 with the latter three the ‘mystery directors’,
The only other explanation is that the Whyte and Earley directorship appointments for Sevco 5088 were forged/fraudulent. But that too has its problems because it leaves Green as sole director and therefore personally carrying the can for any disaster. So were the other Sevco 5088 directors just a fiction?
Problem with that is Companies House Registrar has withdrawn the four termination of directorship applications relating to Whyte and Earley which to me seems to provide a tacit approval to them. If they were never directors why did Green go for a termination – why not go to the Registrar and claim fraud had been carried out and have the in-house investigators and police start looking into it? What we don’t know is whether Whyte and Earley produced additional evidence to sway the Registrar.
What we do know is that as all this was taking place Green upped-sticks and scarpered after IMO his unusual and surprising racist slur on Ahmad – he had a lot to lose 5+ million 1p shares should he have transgressed in any way. Better to walk and preserve the shares and year’s salary pay-off.
Then we have the PR charade of the Pinsent Masons investigation that never was. I don’t know who dreamt it up but whoever it was I reckon was taking the p*ss out of Rangers big-style. It made them look stupid and deceitful IMO.
And all we had defending the interests of Rangers was poor old Malcolm Murray – no wonder he took a drink. They were running rings round him and he appears to have been powerless. When I saw him on the video nasty shot by his colleague I wondered if he was just drunk or had a Mickey Finn as he didn’t look and act like just a drunk to me and that’s an area I have a lot of experience in 😳
He was certainly under great pressure and having spoken to a couple of people who know him he seems a decent guy so I hope he’s feeling a bit better although I’m sure he must be mulling over a lot of thing he should have done differently.
Alright this is not a new topic and the idea might not survive my further reflection never mind that of the jury. But I am prepared to accept the idea that some sense of Rangers community survived the ending of the Deceased, Terminated/ Liquidated Rangers club. This squares the circle of some of the contestation. Those looking at the technical case see an end; Those in emotional bondage still fell like ‘Rangers people’. They see/feel something inextinguishable.
As it happens a Mr Green eventually provided a club that was a near enough replacement that the emotion could be invested (remember this was not automatic and it needed some Green skill/ crassness). It played in the correct colour, the venue was familiar, the old causes were invoked. So the Rangers people adopted the new thing as their own.
What is a thread is the emotion. The idea that the club is on going is a by product of the emotion. So if this new club falls victim to arithmetic of the ledger a sense of Rangersness will be out there and it might find another vehicle. It will be not be the same club but the last thing those seeking a club to follow (follow) will want will to be reminded of is the fact.
Can we distinguish between a Rangers Tendency and the series of clubs they support?
17. scapaflow says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:18 pm
It’s sort of going back over old ground, but I would agree with you in the most part.
I’ve probably lost count of the number of times I’ve said this, but a football club is more than just the numbers on a spreadsheet. I would have no problem with The Rangers fans claiming that their club is still their club, and that you can’t kill what’s in someone’s heart (if that doesn’t sound too pretentious!)
However……. it’s the fact that they are claiming that it’s more than just what’s in their heart, and in actual fact, it’s the exact same club in every way, just with a different owner, that has lead to the situation we are at now.
If they were the exact same club, then you could understand why they’re so raging about their treatment – they’ve apparently been relegated to the bottom division despite finishing 2nd in the league due to all the other clubs ganging up on them, they’ve been forced to play in the early rounds of the cup despite finishing 2nd in the league. It doesn’t make sense what’s has happened to them, so it must be the fault of , lets say, ‘others’.
Were they to accept that actually, they’re ‘sort of’ the same club, but with an acknowledgment that there was some sort of break in events, then their situation would suddenly make perfect sense. Technically, they’d be a new club, but everyone would know that it’s a bit like Fat Boy Slim/ Freakpower or The Smiths/Morrissey, different but essentially the same thing.
I personally would have no problem with that – I wouldn’t even have a problem with their history saying ‘top division titles – 54 (As Old Rangers FC), 3rd division Titles (1 as New Rangers FC)’ . What would be important would be the acknowledgement of a break in the timeline. It would have nipped all this victim mentality stuff in the bud straight away. I’m sure there’s some that wouldn’t agree with that…..
Instead, what we’re left with is a situation where no one is allowed to say that they are a new club, because if it’s not said out loud, then it can’t have happened
Personally, I expect nothing to come of Jim Spence thing. If it gets to it, the BBC trust will re-review the evidence (and effectively ignore scots law about body corporate etc.) and will arrive at a weasel verdict that will allow people on BBC Scotland to say ‘In my opinion….’ and state that they are a new club, and still allow The Rangers to blow the dog whistles, and their fans to target the heretics.
What should happen is that the BBC should say ‘Right, take us to court then, because we’ve clearly slandered you and we’re not apologising for it’, but that won’t happen. The BBC would be too dignified to get down in the mud like that, and The Rangers will be doing all in their power to block something like this ever reaching court, because they know what the outcome would be.
To be honest, it is a shame. Had they been humble about things (I know…..), we’d probably all have moved on by now.
alexander276
Anyone can invest any amount of emotional energy in any team they like. It’s certainly not for me to stop them.
And the can call it what they like too.
What really matters to me, though, is what the footballing authorities deem that team to be. So far they have been depressingly silent on the subject.
This has been made easier for them by the equally depressing manner in which those who have the nerve to consider themselves the bastions of journalism in this country have chosen to allow them to remain silent.
The latest pathetic statement from Graham Spiers is typical of their lack of courage on this matter.
Hours of Thesaurus trawling to find yet another way of saying nothing.
Barcabhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Excellent summaries by Newtz and Ecojon over the last 24 hours.
======================================================
Good points. The only thing I am unclear about is whether the duty to notify creditors lapsed when the CVA was rejected by HMRC. It may have transferred to Sevco Scotland and as they completed the APA with the permission of D&P and Sevco 5088 then, as you say, possibly it provided a tissue-thin defence against notification failure.
You also say: ‘The SFA themselves appear to believe they have been duped. The question is , what are they going to do about that ?’ Good question – perhaps stay hunkered down in the Hampden bunker and wait hopefully for the return of Blue skies 😆
Who said this? No not Jim Spence.
If the SPL rejects the share transfer, the new club could then make an application to join the Scottish Football League. If successful, it would then apply for SFA membership. The new club can only apply for SFA membership when it has a competition to participate in. An opening would arise in the SFL if a club is promoted from the First Division to replace Rangers in the top flight.
All applications to the SFA are assessed on their merits. However, the SFA say any sanctions placed upon the oldco would be taken into consideration to act as a deterrent to other clubs following the same route. Additionally, the new club will not be able to participate in European competition for three years.
What happens to the club’s history?
The Rangers Football Club PLC is a public limited company registered in Scotland (company number: SC004276) and was incorporated on 27 May, 1899. When the current company is officially liquidated, all of its corporate business history will come to an end.
When this happened to Airdrieonians in 2002, all of the trophies, titles and records associated with the club were discontinued and a new club, Airdrie United FC, took over. Airdrieonians’ official history ended in 2002, then Airdrie United’s took over.
The answer lies principally in the eye of the beholder. Some supporters will view the new Rangers as the same Rangers, while others will feel the old Rangers no longer exist.
Ans found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18413384
Kilgore Trout says:
September 9, 2013 at 6:09 pm
Mmmm, can’t say I agree with you about Spiers. I have a sneaky feeling that his ‘re-start’ comment may have been some sort of fishing exercise. He’s got a bit more about him than most journalists, and the idea that out of the blue, he’d just suddenly make a comment like that – he must have known what the reaction would have been to it. Whether the purpose is to put pressure on the upper echelons of Beeb Scotland, I don’t know. It does strike me as unusual, though.
BTW – Anyone remember our absolute astonishment at the piece in the Scotsman a few weeks back, criticising the Cardigan? Is it just me, or does that suddenly make a lot more sense now that we know that Media House are being employed on behalf of RIFC against the forces of ‘Rangersness’?
Just to be clear, I’m not accusing the author of dancing to Jack’s tune – just that his editor may have been a bit more dispensed towards allowing its publication…..
It is important to remember why Rangers were liquidated.
They spent money they didn’t have in order to fund a team they couldn’t afford to try to dominate Scottish and even European football.
A lot of that money was stolen, including millions from the UK exchequer. Millions from you and me.
Rangers are being liquidated because of arrogance and a superiority complex, because they genuinely believed they were better than anyone else. I see no reason to have any sympathy. However if their fans want to believe that it is the same club that is a matter for them. The simple fact is that the club they supported became a limited company then a PLC then was placed into liquidation. It still exists as the liquidation has not been finalised but to all intents and purposes it is dead.
58. Shooperb says:
September 9, 2013 at 6:25 pm
It was Glen Gibbons in the Scotsman and he also took a pot shot at Saly the other day.
Folks here think GG is relatively sound but you may have a point about what might getting past the editors desk. these days and why.
The current board have missed there chance to cut Sally’s salary and until there is a defeat on some note he is going to stay and milk it for all he can.
briggsbhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:48 pm
10 0 Rate This
Tic 6709 says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm
Aye yi can have it In my original piece I was going to use the word Mufti as they apparently are usually the ones who actually issue fatwas.
A mufti (Arabic: مفتي muftī ; Turkish: müftü ) is a Sunni Islamic scholar who is an interpreter or expounder of Islamic law (Sharia and fiqh).[1] In religious administrative terms, a mufti is roughly equivalent to a deacon to a Sunni population. A muftiate or diyanet is a council of muftis.
Don’t you love the last sentence ” A mufiate or Diyanet is a council of muftis” Any collective pronouncements from Ibrokes should be referred to as one from “the bunch of Muftis”
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
I think I need my hearing tested. . .
I always thought the people at ibrokes were being referred to as
…a bunch of Numpties ?
Shooperb says:
September 9, 2013 at 6:04 pm
“it’s a bit like The Smiths/Morrissey, different but essentially the same thing.”
———————————————————————————————————————-
(Look at my avatar) Oh boy, opinion as fact! Sorry Shooperb, but while I still love Morrissey, there’s no way he can be considered the same as (equal to) the Smiths. Without Johnny’s melodies and guitar playing, Moz has never been able to match his wonderful past! (OT I know, but if folks can post epistles about Star Trek/Wars then……lol)
Shooperb @ 6:17 pm
I see your point on Mr Spiers’s comment so I’ll magnanimously cut him a little slack on this occasion! 🙂
Provided he follows up very soon with something more substantial.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
September 9, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Who said this? No not Jim Spence.
If the SPL rejects the share transfer, the new club could then make an application to join the Scottish Football League. If successful, it would then apply for SFA membership. The new club can only apply for SFA membership when it has a competition to participate in. An opening would arise in the SFL if a club is promoted from the First Division to replace Rangers in the top flight.
All applications to the SFA are assessed on their merits. However, the SFA say any sanctions placed upon the oldco would be taken into consideration to act as a deterrent to other clubs following the same route. Additionally, the new club will not be able to participate in European competition for three years.
What happens to the club’s history?
The Rangers Football Club PLC is a public limited company registered in Scotland (company number: SC004276) and was incorporated on 27 May, 1899. When the current company is officially liquidated, all of its corporate business history will come to an end.
When this happened to Airdrieonians in 2002, all of the trophies, titles and records associated with the club were discontinued and a new club, Airdrie United FC, took over. Airdrieonians’ official history ended in 2002, then Airdrie United’s took over.
The answer lies principally in the eye of the beholder. Some supporters will view the new Rangers as the same Rangers, while others will feel the old Rangers no longer exist.
Ans found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18413384
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There seems to be two factors involved in SFA thinking at the time of adminstration leading up to liquidation..
a) A determination to make sure whatever money football was owed was paid by the new club. (No Football First rules in Scotland) Looking at the 5 way agreement this was writ large to me.
b) The improved commercial viability for the new incarnation if old = new.
Part of the thinking though was that staying in the top flight was a possibility, hence the transfer embargo as a punishment. However with hindsight once it became clear a re start as described in in the bottom tier was to be so (and this should have been the thinking from the word go) then the transfer embargo should have been dropped although I can understand a dermination on part of the SFA to keep money owed to Scottish football in the Scottish game.
Had the thinking been a clean break from the start then it would have produced a clean break but would there have been anyone to trade conditions with had it been known from the start that a new club would have to start at the bottom?
I think there would but it would not have been the spivs scenting a sheep to be fleeced or a lamb to roast.
An opportunity for a clean break that would have been to everyone’s benefit was lost because football cannot see beyond the length of its greedy nose.
btw. The genesis of a club and company as two distinct entities is in Paul Clark’s interview. There has to be two for one to die and the other to live. Where is the proof that prior to liquidation there was a disctinct separate entity acting as a company on its own operating a football business? Why has it not been produced? Did Rangers comply with Art 43 as a club in 2011 or Art 45 as a company? You can bet Paul Clark saw the benefits to the purchaser of his statement, so it is hardly neutral.
I am originally from Airdrie and took my whole family back home for a visit in April, this included two American son-in-laws, one night my brother-in-law was telling a tale of their visit to Prague along with other family members, my son-in-law who had absolutely no idea of anything connected to Scottish Football then asked why the program for that game said Airdrieonians and the one he had got at the weekend said Airdrie United, he asked in all innocence why they changed the name. My brother-in-law then went on to explain what happened, I have to say he was very angry when explaining how it came about and then full of shame re Clydebank situation, without saying anything, he did acknowledge it was a new club he supported but it was clearly too painful for him to even think about. I think because he accepted the situation, there was definitely sympathy shown to him for what had happened to his club.
Kilgore Trout says:
September 9, 2013 at 7:22 pm
I see your point on Mr Spiers’s comment so I’ll magnanimously cut him a little slack on this occasion!
Provided he follows up very soon with something more substantial.
——————
I think we should all cut him a little slack, as far as I can see he is the only one that has been consistent on this matter from the start.
A question for Sevconians
If you are, as you claim, the same club, why was RFC(IA) allowed to vote on Sevco’s application to join the SPL
I won’t hold my breath waiting for the answer
phoenixhere says:
September 9, 2013 at 7:35 pm
There wasn’t much sympathy from David Murray, or indeed the SFA.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/628268.stm
Airdrie’s problems worsened when it was revealed that Rangers had arrested the club’s share of the gate receipts for Sunday’s Scottish Cup tie at Dundee United.
Ibrox chairman David Murray applied for an interdict, on behalf of his company Carnegie, for a debt of around £30,000 owed by Airdrie.
Mr Murray said: “I feel very sorry for Airdrie and their supporters but we’re running a business. We have given them repeated warnings and felt they were playing on our good nature.”
The Scottish Football Association described the move as “a private matter between the clubs” and made clear there had been no contact with either party.
Madbhoy24941 @ 7:43 pm
The only consistency I’ve seen from Mr Spiers and far too many of his fellow journalists (I often feel I should put that word in inverted commas) has been a consistent refusal to put a few simple questions directly to those in positions of authority and to keep doing so until they receive satisfactory answers.
I’ve, clearly rather naively, always thought that that was their job.
http://terracepodcast.net/misc/2013/9/9/scottish-football-nicknames-ranking-12-1
OT – but a wee celebration of Scottish team nicknames and their origin (with my lot at #1)
jimlarkin says:
September 9, 2013 at 7:02 pm
Exactly, but it’s no a bunch of numpties anymore it’s Muftis 😀
Here: since we’ve been playing at ‘Guess the Quote’, here’s another:-
“There is a lot of emotion around this subject because Rangers are a huge institution in Scottish football history and they are where they are. Their fans have been hurt, they don’t know what’s happening. There hasn’t been a great deal of leadership at the club and there hasn’t been a huge amount of communication from the football authorities.”
Who was that again?
❗
Kilgore Trout says:
September 9, 2013 at 8:16 pm
I’m afraid the bulk of people reporting on football in Scotland are just that, at best, reporters. They are far from Journalists.
Mark Daly is a Journalist, in fact an Investigative Journalist. The rest just seem to report on what they are told, taking it at face value. Some of it actually reads more like press releases.
They are lazy and cowardly, just happy to be given a “story” which they can then regurgitate.
In fact if we cast our minds back that was a good bit of the reason behind the original RTC blog. The failure of the main stream media in Scotland. Little has changed, other than people not being quite so gullible any more and actually putting the work in for themselves, actively trying to establish the reality of situations.
I think that particular Rubicon has well and truly been crossed.
jimlarkin says:
September 9, 2013 at 7:02 pm
briggsbhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:48 pm
Tic 6709 says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm
re Graham
I have enjoyed the various suggestions and liked Moola Graham but having given it a little thought and he’s not worth any more I reckon Loofa Graham is more appropriate.
Loofa comes from Arabic and is a vegetable which is best eaten when small – we missed up on the timing there 😆
When the bitter Loofa is beaten and crushed its juice is a natural remedy against the jaundiced opinions of everyone except those who swallow succulent lamb or suffer from Rangeritis.
But perhaps the best use of a Loofa is to soak-up, then regurgitate the most noxious outpourings of rabid opinions and bile. And when one spouter moves on then the Loofa can be squeezed out, hung out to dry and be ready to sook up the next spouting of p*sh from the latest Dear Leader.
Danish Pastry says:
September 9, 2013 at 4:28 pm
briggsbhoy says:
September 9, 2013 at 3:48 pm
———-
Unsurprisingly, some of the fatwans turn out to be mufties
+++++++++++++
funny when I read your post DP I immediately thought of a chap outside Ibrokes some months ago saying something aboot a big hoose and that he didn’t want it to shut 🙂
andygraham.66 says:
September 9, 2013 at 8:26 pm
0 0 Rate This
OT – but a wee celebration of Scottish team nicknames and their origin (with my lot at #1)
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Certainly not OT on The Scottish Football Monitor – and a good history lesson. Good to see The Honest Men at number 1… for once ! (just as well David Murray wasn’t successful in buying the club, or I suspect the name might have lost some of its credibility 🙂 )