The Offline Game

Avatar ByBig Pink

The Offline Game

The scandal in which Scottish football has become embroiled is neither equivocal nor complicated. It happened. It is easily seen to have happened. It is certainly not a degree course in nuclear physics. Why then, are simple facts ignored day after day, week after week, by not just the so called purveyors of truth in the media, but the body of the SFA itself, the clubs?

Five years or so ago, systematic cheating by a club involved in Scottish football was uncovered as a consequence of the club slipping into liquidation. This is easily established as fact.

It soon became clear that the authorities had been aware of the situation for as long as it had been going on, but instead of applying their own rules, which would have saved that club from it’s ultimate demise, they chose to enable it and cover it up. Also, backed up by documentary evidence.

As a consequence of the slide towards liquidation, the authorities went into cover-up overdrive to protect their own position. Inquiries based on rhetorical “you’ll have had your tea!” questions were set up to arrive at predetermined conclusions. The post-truth era in Scottish football had begun in earnest.

The claims of corruption which subsequently emerged were dismissed out of hand by the authorities and the press; first by accusations that it was only Paranoid Celtic fans looking to put the boot into Rangers who were behind the claims, then, when it became clear that it was not only Celtic fans who were angered by the way the integrity of the sport had been shattered, the “mad Celtic fans” epithet was amended to “mad online conspiracy theorists”.

The tactic was clear. NEVER address the issue. Attack the messengers. Ridicule them, mock them, demonise them. Despite that, the message of SFM and others was gaining traction and dangerously for the authorities, becoming difficult to ignore.

Last Autumn SFM was approached in confidence by senior figures in two print media outlets. The request was for us to provide them with the facts we had in bullet points – to make it easier for them to reach their audience, an audience they claimed was not sophisticated enough to absorb the detail and minutiae of the story.

The role of journalists is to do exactly that of course. They had access to the same documentary evidence we had (we know this because we gave it to them), but they wanted us to do their job for them? Leaving aside the scant regard I have for football journalists in this country, I don’t believe they are incapable of carrying out that simple task – but we humoured them anyway and provided them with the “SFA Corruption for Dummies” guide that they asked for.

But what were they really up to?

Remembering the RTC thread where he pointed out that genuine whistle-blowers in this saga were reluctant to come forward because of trust issues – they feared any contact with the MSM would result in their details being provided to those they were exposing – we proceeded with some caution. Amusingly, the same three questions was asked at each meeting; “You must know who Rangers Tax Case is?”, “any idea who John James is?” and, “what team do you support?”. (FYI, my answers were, “No”, “No”, and “Celtic” respectively).

Interestingly, for people who needed clarification by bullet-point, they were well enough versed in the minutiae to attempt to argue the flat-earth case and try to sell us the “it has been established legally that <insert something that hasn’t been established legally here>”

Our only conjecture was that they were trying to convince us we were wrong,  or ascertain how firm a grasp we actually had on the facts to better see who and what they were dealing with, or (most probably) they were reacting aimlessly to online pressure and not really following any plan at all. Perhaps they were seeking to reassure themselves that it was just Celtic fans who were angry – although I fail to see how Celtic or their fans have less credibility when asking legitimate questions about the running of the game just because Rangers were involved.

Subsequently, despite the platitudes of “print and social media should work together” and the like, and despite being furnished with the aforementioned bullet points, no further contact was made with SFM other than a couple of childish comments about SFM on Twitter.

Facts might be facts to us all, but in the case of the print media, they can be ignored on the basis that mad internet bampots are not a credible source, although metaphysical hypotheses are clearly thought to be a far more sensible line of inquiry!

However, facts ARE indeed facts, and in the hands of real journalists like Alec Thomson and those in The Offshore Game (TOG), they are given the credence they merit. Since TOG published the report on the SFA (see below), the facts have emerged from not just the so-called internet bampots. Those facts have survived the scrutiny of several reputable journalists involved in TOG – and their legal advisers.

Accusations more blunt and unequivocal than we have ever made have been published. The genie is most definitely out of the bottle, but the prodigious MSM Twitterati, so meticulous in their investigations into the occupation of Craig Whyte’s female companions, appear to have run out of batteries on their keyboards. “No answer” is the loud reply, since TOG cannot be ridiculed quite so easily without exposing themselves to the same scrutiny they have failed to apply to the SFA.

If I can be as unequivocal about this as possible. Senior journalists in at least two MSM print outlets KNOW there has been a cover up, and that systematic cheating took place. They knew that before the TOG report, long before it, but still they did nothing. Even now they do nothing. They are now playing a reactionary role – as counterpoint to the accessible online truth –  involved in actively concealing that truth from the offline public. An Offline Game if you like.

Of course we are not surprised by that, and as the falling-off-a-cliff circulation figures show, fewer and fewer people are playing their game. Even those who still purchase newspapers believe little of what they read.

The clubs are a different matter. Fans of every single club in this country – and that includes TRFC – will benefit from an inquiry into the handling of this matter. In the light of the TOG report, there is no excuse for the clubs to ignore calls for an inquiry to be set up. In fact by doing so, they are actively embracing corruption.

As we have said time and time again, this is no longer about Rangers. It is about institutionalised mal-governance at Hampden. By assisting the cover-up, the clubs are ensuring that the same corrupt practices are in place, ready to go again when necessary. Those practices which saw journalists and SFA officials cede editorial control (both statements backed up by documentary evidence) of their output to one club, and allow damaging conflicts of interest to circumvent rules.

The Offshore Game has thrown a media spotlight onto a cover-up. The MSM have attempted to bury it in the offline domain, but corruption, however well established,is not unbeatable. We can beat it if we work together – and here is how.

Season ticket renewals are dropping through letterboxes as I write this. If we do nothing other than protest, the clubs will do – just like Stewart Regan says he will – NOTHING!

There is only one way to establish the Independent Inquiry that is demanded in the wake of TOG report. Ask your club if they will vote for an Independent Inquiry to be set up.

If they agree, there is no problem. They are doing the right thing and will be deserving of our support.

Otherwise, send their renewal forms back to them unsigned.

It really is that simple.

 

 

http://www.theoffshoregame.net/475-2/

 

 

About the author

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Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

1,833 Comments so far

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beatipacificiscotiaPosted on12:06 pm - May 22, 2016


TRISIDIUMMAY 21, 2016 at 22:54
EDIT/UPDATE:The video clip which shows the moron pushing the Rangers goalkeeper is outrageous. I can only imagine how scared that young man must have been, isolated as he was at that moment. I was scared for him just watching it and I have to say that I can understand Rangers’ immediate reaction on the basis of that incident alone. I hope they get hold of that arse.
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100% agree.  A Hibs supporting family member suggested he probably gets worse defending a corner, but that completely misses the point.  Being surrounded by professional footballers, in a controlled environment, is nothing like being surrounded by over-zealous football fans.  You have no idea what is going to happen next.  I thought the big chap did very well to keep his cool.  I hope the idiot involved is found and prosecuted.  It is common assault, no excuses.

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TrisidiumPosted on12:30 pm - May 22, 2016


CASTOFTHOUSANDS
MAY 22, 2016 at 10:06

______________________________-

Have to agree re the police yesterday. There may be questions to answer by Police and Hampden authorities about prevention of the field invasion, but I thought the reaction was swift, efficient and largely temperate – and probably avoided a much more severe escalation.

The Police Scotland reaction via the PR outlets was also even-handed and non-judgemental. 

I am usually the first to criticise, but I really do think the cops did well yesterday and deserve great credit for their handling of the situation.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on12:37 pm - May 22, 2016


TRISIDIUM
MAY 22, 2016 at 12:30

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I couldn’t agree more.

The job of the Police is not to steward the ground, in spite of what some people may think, it is to Police it. A lot of the responsibility lies with the stewards, with a Police presence. For example if a person is simply being ejected then it should be the stewards who do it. If the person refuses, or has to be detained then the Police will step in.

I thought they got things under control in a reasonable and measured manner. The situation could have got worse if they had not acted the way they did. Police Scotland performed their duties well yesterday in my opinion.

It will now be their job to establish if anything further took place, for example any assaults, identify those responsible then prosecute them for it. 

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on1:10 pm - May 22, 2016


Oh what a mighty squirrel the pitch invaders, inadvertantly, provided the SMSM with yesterday. We know that TRFC had the cup sewn up immediately after the penalties in their semi-final win, so we might ordinarly have expected a ‘where did it all go wrong? ‘fest from the media, with questions being asked of the manager and of the squad’s ability to compete, with any team, in the Premiership. Instead, somehow, it’s become a story of an assault on the Premiership’s newest club.

The narative that followed a ‘Rangers’ victory would have been full of the oft seen exhultations to buy S/T’s to watch the latest stage of the journey.

Perhaps something might be salvaged from this as supporters, not yet decided on S/T purchase, might feel some sympathy towards the team, but the fact that the papers have an excuse not to highlight the fact that TRFC, with time to recover from the season’s rigours, looked less fit than, and, at no stage dominated, a team that had played four tough matches, and had suffered the huge disappointment of failure, in the promotion play-offs. We all know that the Ibrox faithful like their trophies, and winning this particular cup was extremely important to them, so it’s safe to say that waking up to such questions might have swayed a number of supporters not to commit to attending every game, adopting a wait and see attitude instead.

Over on JJ’s site, a poster has pointed out that the speed at which TRFC/Level5 got their statement out was breathtaking. Perhaps Traynor had been briefed on the urgency to get something out to deflect from such glaring deficiencies in the event of an unexpected deviation from the media’s prepared script. The pitch invasion making his job rather easy.

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on1:27 pm - May 22, 2016


SHUGMAY 22, 2016 at 10:50 9 6 Rate This
EJ I wouldn’t bet on there being no European football at the crumbledome next season seems like plans are afoot to sort this out.The rangers fans are shocked that hibs were even given the trophy.
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No way can this happen Shug.
Any attempt to promote Sevco into a European position would represent unparalleled corruption and even the compromised Regan and Doncaster would concede this. It would also lead to a greater nationwide season ticket boycott than would have occurred had the new club been allowed to start life in the second tier in 2012. True Armageddon if you like!

Hibs have earned their place in Europe on the park and good luck to them.

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John ClarkPosted on2:01 pm - May 22, 2016


I really think the CEO of the SFA should do the honourable thing and resign immediately.
His blethering on about having  “a full operational plan’, and having worked with Police Scotland and the Hampden Park Management team ” to put in place all provisions for a Category C Increased Risk match” is nothing short of self-exculpatory blame-dodging.
He was in charge. His plan failed.He should be very thankful that disaster in the form of serious public disorder and serious injuries was avoided, and get the hell out before he is forced out for other reasons, perhaps.

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MONEYBALLPosted on2:07 pm - May 22, 2016


Putting aside the unsavory but short lived events, yesterday’s spectacle was a joy to behold. Who wouldn’t want to be a Hi Bee today. The rendition of Sunshine on Leith being belted out by fans and players was as emotional as football can get you. Huge congratulations to all Hibees fans wherever they are.

Yesterday also brought to an end a period in Scottish football that doesn’t look likely to be repeated. The opening ceremony may have been Celtic V Barcelona and the fantastic highlights that followed were provided by St Mirren, St Johnstone, Ross County , ICT and the like. But maybe the best was kept till last. The closing ceremony of Armageddon was a fitting end to a romantic chapter of the Scottish game and I will miss it.

After 4 years of independent art house, inspiring uplifting dramas we are back with the old media fueled studio system. We can now look forward to the mindless blockbusters.

The projected atmosphere in the top flight now looks all too bleak and familiar The real Armageddon days are here again.

Good luck to Killie and the Bairns. Hope we get a good game.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on2:26 pm - May 22, 2016


So, in no particular order, we had pyros and flares set off, sectarian singing, pitch invasion, alleged assaults on players and officials, spitting, Keystone Cops-style stewarding,  five goals and a decent game of football from teams from this season’s Championship. I would fine both teams for the behaviour of their fans , and insist the fines are paid on the same date . I would also hope that Police Scotland charge the SFA for their part in organising this event and its aftermath .

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on2:48 pm - May 22, 2016


Am I correct in saying that terracing fencing was outlawed due to crush safety fears? ..
       If so, and in the cold light of day, it is hard to say what else the thin hi-viz line could have done without possibly turning jubilation into anger. A few skirmishes did break out, but appear to have been contained and dispersed with efficiency.
      Again, in the cold light of day. At the emotional peak of the game, and still wild celebrations and disconsolation of an injury time goal, two dry sticks rubbing together created very little flame.  
   I think some perspective is required. Of the fans on the pitch, only a minuscule percentage engaged in poor behaviour. Such a large number will always have a percentage of nut-jobs amongst them.
A hefty fine of equal parity for both clubs would be appropriate, and lifetime bans for any identified troublemakers. Perhaps a stadium announcement in the last couple of minutes of the game reminding fans that ingress onto the pitch will not be tolerated, should be considered, backed by a highly visible and deliberate “token” reinforcing of the hi-viz on trackside. 
   Short of fencing, I don’t see what else could have been done. 
  Next season, safe standing is to be introduced, and fans must take responsibility for their own actions. The alternative will be fencing, if it is considered the safer option. 
   

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Giovanni333Posted on4:04 pm - May 22, 2016


I know its not acceptable for the winning teams’ fans to invade the pitch to celebrate after a football match – but it is neither unusual OR rare !
The trigger event is when the fans of the other team are allowed to join them.
I would have thought that as soon as the Hibs fans came on to the pitch the priority would be to make sure that ‘T’he Rangers fans DO NOT join them ! There seems to have been no attempt for this to happen. (just like the 1980 Cup Final)
I feel that if The Rangers had won this game and invaded the pitch then ALL blame would have been on the Hibs fans for joining them on the pitch.
The common denominators between 1980 and yesterday are :
1.  “Rangers”
2.  The losers joining the winning fans on the pitch.
3. The “minority” song book !

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wottpiPosted on4:19 pm - May 22, 2016


Just out of interest I looked back at the highlights for both Scottish Cup semis.

The manner in which both games were stewarded was similar, albeit due to the smaller crown the Hibs v Utd game had less stewards at either end.

If the level and positioning of stewards was deemed OK for Celtic v T Rangers then there is no reason to believe it was not adequate for yesterday’s final.

Should someone have accounted for 114 years of pent up angst. Maybe,  but at the end of the day the scenes yesterday were all down to the behaviour of fans.

As has been said the vast majority of Hibs fans who ran onto the pitch will not have a malicious thought in their head. It was sheer jubilation.

The vast majority of T’Rangers fans equally,  either took to the streets or remained seated awaiting the medal and cup presentation.

The minority from both sides who engaged with each other are idiots.

Hibs fans getting involved with T’Rangers players are most definitely idiots.

This clip gives a great view of where you can draw a line around the idiots from both sides.

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shug

shugPosted on4:58 pm - May 22, 2016


Is there any point in posting again mods let me know if I should stop posting altogether I will await moderation of this post with baited breath.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on5:39 pm - May 22, 2016


A different take on the goings on
https://andrewpatersonblog.wordpress.com/2016/05/22/schadenfreude-abounds-at-the-scottish-cup-final/

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ElCapitano2013Posted on5:54 pm - May 22, 2016


The statement issued by Rangers in relation to the events yesterday is nothing short of a disgrace. 
The first thing the statement should have said is well done to both teams for taking part in a game which was a good advert for Scottish football and congratulations to Hibs for lifting the trophy. It should then have condemned the actions of everyone who went onto the park and that the club will assist the authorities in identifying those involved. 
Instead, the statement plays the victim card and takes no responsibility for those Rangers fans who were involved, despite there being video and photographic evidence which clearly shows this was the case. This only further inflames a situation when the sensible thing is to do the exact opposite.
It’s hard to feel anything but disdain for those who run the club when they are so willing to blame everyone else and completely unwilling to sort their own problems. 

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SouthernExilePosted on6:16 pm - May 22, 2016


“Rangers is a great football club, it has a great history and it’s unfortunate that they have been relegated”
Dermot Desmond, October 2012 (source BBC, but near identical quotes on other news outlets)
I posted this a couple of months ago, and suggested that many folks were in denial about this. Little seems to have changed on here.
Very early on in the Great Deception, corporate Celtic clearly signalled: we’re cool with this, let’s carry on as usual.
No use ranting about salaried nyaffs like Regan and Doncaster – they were carrying out the will of the duopoly. No use railing about the execrable SMSM – they know the agreed narrative and will run with it.
I know perfectly well the dangers Celtic (and wider Scottish society) face in public pronouncements and the risk of setting off a sectarian hate fest.
But this was not passive acquiescence, it was active participation in the Big Lie. I stand to be corrected by any more recent statements by the Celtic powers that be – I can’t find any.
On reflection, failure to recognise this seems less denial but delusion.

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SouthernExilePosted on6:22 pm - May 22, 2016


I posted this this quote on here a couple of months ago, and suggested that some folks were in denial about it.

“Rangers is a great football club, it has a great history and it’s unfortunate that they have been relegated”
Dermot Desmond, October 2012 (source BBC, but near identical quotes on other news outlets)

Very early on in the Great Deception, corporate Celtic clearly signalled: we’re cool with this, let’s carry on as usual.

No use ranting about salaried nyaffs like Regan and Doncaster – they were carrying out the will of the duopoly. No use railing about the execrable SMSM – they know the agreed narrative and will run with it.

I know perfectly well the dangers Celtic (and wider Scottish society) face in public pronouncements and the risk of setting off a sectarian hate fest.

But this was not passive acquiescence, it was active participation in the Big Lie. I stand to be corrected by any more recent statements by the Celtic powers that be – I can’t find any.

On reflection, failure to recognise this seems less denial but delusion.

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wottpiPosted on6:37 pm - May 22, 2016


ELCAPITANO2013MAY 22, 2016 at 17:54

You can’t sell season tickets if you don’t repeat the No Surrender mantra.

Don’t get me wrong I wholly accept T’Rangers as a club are right to be totally pissed off at their players being potentially put in danger. They were right to publicly express their disgust.

However the problems in the Scottish game are not going to go away unless everyone stands up and faces the reality that elements of their own support are no angels.

Until, like our sainted Ann Budge of Tynecastle, the folk in the Blue Room need to take a stronger stand against elements of their own support when incidents like yesterday occur or this ongoing resentment is just going to keep on coming.

It is not ‘whataboutery’ it is about saying – there by the grace of God go us because we too have our idiots and the potential for nonsense is just around the corner if we are not careful.

Lets make no mistake. The problems yesterday were the fault of the Hibs fans. There will be a punishment of some sort and it will be deserved. However lets man up and tell it how it is and try to move forward.

Praising T’Rangers fans ‘restraint’ but at the same time failing to condemn the actions of the minority who did choose to go onto the pitch to ‘defend the club’s honour’, just gives the idiots an impression they were right in the eyes of the club.

A more measured and considered comment from Ibrox would have been appropriate as opposed to the knee jerk reaction. However it is perhaps understandable given the pressure the board may find themselves in in relation to in not having the silverware, Euro football and a manager screaming that he didn’t have enough players to fill a cup final bench.

PS I see on social media there is a nice clear photo of the Hibs fan who took a fresh air right hook at Lee Wallace. Hopefully the Polis should be knocking on his door anytime soon.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on7:02 pm - May 22, 2016


It seems Rangers have released their more considered response to what happened after the cup final.

It would appear that their supporters who invaded the pitch, singing a banned sectarian song were actually defending the poor Rangers support, staff and players. Anyone else would have done the same

It is the most playing to the crowd statement I think I have seen.
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Rangers finds it incomprehensible that no one, either from within the Scottish FA or Hibernian Football Club, has condemned Hibernian’s supporters following the violent scenes at the end of yesterday’s Scottish Cup final when Rangers players and members of our backroom staff were physically and verbally assaulted. We have not even had the courtesy of any contact whatsoever from Hibernian to ask after the wellbeing of those who were attacked by their club’s supporters.

There must be a full independent investigation into the shameful scenes at Hampden. Rangers is also at a complete loss to understand why certain individuals have hastily attempted to gloss over the appalling events which unfolded at the end of Saturday’s final.

No matter how many times Hibernian’s chairman and Scottish FA vice-chairman, Rod Petrie, and certain other biased commentators wish to play down Saturday’s mayhem and violence, the truth must not be distorted. What unfolded on Saturday cannot and must not be put down to exuberance. That is a complete insult to Rangers, our supporters, and those individuals who were intimidated and attacked.

It was clear to most of those who watched in horror that the Scottish FA’s security procedures failed when Hibernian’s fans went over the top in their thousands.  It is to be hoped that all of Scottish football will share Rangers’ disgust and any attempts to attach blame to our supporters for the disgraceful and violent behaviour, which led to our players and fans fearing for their safety, will not be accepted or tolerated by this Club.

We acknowledge that a tiny minority of Rangers fans also encroached on the pitch but only after having been faced with prolonged and severe provocation and in order to protect our players and officials who were being visibly attacked in front of them. Any club’s supporters would have done the same. This distressing and deeply disturbing episode would never have happened had Hibs fans behaved properly but as they swarmed across the pitch it became immediately obvious that the security procedures were inadequate and had failed.

These fans were allowed to rush, unchecked, towards Rangers supporters at the opposite end of the stadium – all the while goading and threatening them. This makes it preposterous to suggest Rangers fans were somehow to blame as some commentators appear anxious to do. This thuggish behaviour must be investigated and as many culprits as possible brought to book and formally charged. This is the second time in a year that Rangers fans have had to endure attacks by another club’s supporters.

It must also be said that it was not at all helpful to see leading members of the Scottish Government, including the First Minister whose parish is Govan, passing comment on social media without any attempt to condemn the behaviour of Hibernian’s fans. These failures are unbecoming of our elected representatives.

Certain media outlets have also attempted to distort reality.  In the case of the BBC this is, of course, not news. BBC employees, in particular Stuart Cosgrove, believe Rod Petrie’s comments to be ‘balanced’ and others speak of a ‘minority’ of Hibernian supporters. Another, Tom English, who was not even at the match, would prefer the authorities to focus on Rangers fans’ reaction. We will not endure this insult.

So, let everyone be clear on one thing – Rangers demands that players, staff and fans be protected from the violence and hatred of supporters of other clubs. Rangers fully expects the Scottish FA and Police Scotland to take action to provide our people with a safe environment. When players are unable to accept medals at the end of a final because of fears for their safety and our supporters are alarmed and extremely concerned for the women and children among them, then surely every step must be taken to ensure that this is never repeated.

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tony

tonyPosted on7:09 pm - May 22, 2016


HOMUNCULUS
was going to post that too,they have really lost the plot,cringeworthy rubbish

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on7:17 pm - May 22, 2016


Tom English clearly isn’t happy about the personal attack on him.

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tony

tonyPosted on7:21 pm - May 22, 2016


Graham Spiers@GrahamSpiersA Rangers FC spokesman at his clunking, verbose best. Pitiful stuff this…

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pau1mart1nPosted on7:28 pm - May 22, 2016


“…….provide our people with a safe environment…..”

should that “our” not be “the” Jim??

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upthehoopsPosted on7:28 pm - May 22, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMAY 22, 2016 at 19:02
That statement is incredible, utterly incredible. 

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ElCapitano2013Posted on7:28 pm - May 22, 2016


Homunculus @ 19.02
And I thought the original statement was a disagrace!!!

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upthehoopsPosted on7:40 pm - May 22, 2016


I see Tom English on Twitter is not at all pleased at being specifically named in the latest Rangers statement. He has a real point in my view, as it could be construed as basically inciting people to give him abuse. What an utterly classless club Rangers are.  

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CastofthousandsPosted on8:01 pm - May 22, 2016


I think a bit of calm is required. The dust needs to settle on these concluded events before a rational perspective can be arrived at. There is a lot of emotion in play currently and there is a danger that rational persepectives will become distorted in the melee of recriminations.

Hibs fans should not have invaded the pitch. That some latitude has been cut them given the historic nature of the occasion should not disguise this. They paid for their stupidity by being robbed of the opportunity of seeing the cup paraded after the game. Some mitigation might also be afforded them inasmuch that that the decorum accorded to such occasions may not have become steeped into their fans culture.

A bit of calm would go a long way in the current circumstances. Heads need to cool and we should not be inflaming sentiments so soon after events or we risk becoming part of the problem.

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pau1mart1nPosted on8:02 pm - May 22, 2016


“So, let everyone be clear on one thing – Rangers demands that players, staff and fans be protected from the violence and hatred ….”

think that’s probably two things Jim – or might be six ??

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jimmyczzPosted on8:06 pm - May 22, 2016


It really is time for all the rest of the clubs to close ranks and consign this new incarnation of the Ibrox club to oblivion. They have taken bringing the game into disrepute to a whole new level with this craziness.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:21 pm - May 22, 2016


Daily Record online is now reporting a campaign to have Hibs banned from Europe next season. If the ultimate aim is for Rangers to be given the place I believe it’s more likely it would be awarded to a team from the top league due to league placing. 

It’s all getting a bit ridiculous now.

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John ClarkPosted on8:23 pm - May 22, 2016


HomunculusMay 22, 2016 at 19:02
‘…It is the most playing to the crowd statement I think I have seen.’
________
And is just the kind of vile, threatening, aggressive criminally-minded  statement that might be expected from, say,  a posturing guttersnipe of a dodgy businessman with a criminal record, and a facility for smooth mendacity.
Good job there is none such in Scotland, eh? 

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:25 pm - May 22, 2016


Is there any precedent for a club losing it’s European place, for any reason.

It would be ironic if the SFA (responsible for security at Hampden) tried to do that to a club when strict liability for the behaviour of the fans does not exist.

I just don’t see how it could be justified. 

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on8:46 pm - May 22, 2016


  What did Tom English say that has angered Jabba so much?…..Did he say “Oi” when he should have said “I”   
   Lets see,,,Who do the fans not like this week?
  Hibs….Check
The SNP….Check
The BBC…..Check
Anybody else? 
Aye….Better kid on we are not friends with the SFA.
Good call !

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upthehoopsPosted on8:49 pm - May 22, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMAY 22, 2016 at 20:25 
Is there any precedent for a club losing it’s European place, for any reason.
It would be ironic if the SFA (responsible for security at Hampden) tried to do that to a club when strict liability for the behaviour of the fans does not exist.
I just don’t see how it could be justified. 
========================

Me neither, but this is the SFA we are talking about. When Rangers liquidated, everyone thought it would be the end of their history. The SFA still found a way round that. 

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Prohibby

ProhibbyPosted on8:56 pm - May 22, 2016


Not another competition next season!  I’ve always said that the league cup was a competition too far this season!  Could we not get banned from Europe and the league cup next season, please?16

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jockybhoyPosted on9:52 pm - May 22, 2016


HOMUNCULUSMAY 22, 2016 at 20:25 Is there any precedent for a club losing it’s European place, for any reason.
…um, English teams in Europe post-Heysel?

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John ClarkPosted on9:53 pm - May 22, 2016


The wikipedia people move quite fast!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_UEFA_Europa_League
“Notably one team will take part in the competition that is not playing in their national top-division, Hibernian (2nd tier).”
This page was last modified on 22 May 2016, at 20:32.!
I wonder did they put in a phone call to UEFA? They might have seen the DR’s nonsense ‘report’ about the ‘petition’.

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John ClarkPosted on10:00 pm - May 22, 2016


upthehoopsMay 22, 2016 at 20:49
‘..When Rangers liquidated, everyone thought it would be the end of their history. The SFA still found a way round that. ‘
____________
It WAS the end of their history, uth.
Lie as they might, the SFA can no more change that legal, commercial and sporting fact, any more than old Cnut ( not a  mistype!) could deny the power of the tide as he forbade it to encroach on the sea-shore.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:00 pm - May 22, 2016


JOCKYBHOY
MAY 22, 2016 at 21:52

==========================

Two points on that one, as I understand it.

The teams were banned from getting a place, as opposed to losing it. 

UEFA removed the places from English football, rather than the national association banning any specific team from getting one.

I stand to be corrected on either.

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jockybhoyPosted on10:43 pm - May 22, 2016


HOMUNCULUS
Dont give them ideas mate! You can see their agenda writ large with this latest ploy. Tbh the events of Saturday pale into insignificance when compared to some other countries with UEFA licenses – am thinking Turkey specifically, but even Barca fans invaded the pitch when they secured this years La Liga title – but the outrage has been off the scale as it always seems to be, especially when their PR department lays blame against everyone else and not the shrinking violents, sorry, violets of their own support…

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shug

shugPosted on10:47 pm - May 22, 2016


Anyone think this is disgraceful an adult taking on a kid during the mayhem.

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ChristyboyPosted on10:49 pm - May 22, 2016


I recognise this scenario. When I was about 12, I thought I was better than anyone else at football and when our our five-a-side team got beat, I bawled my eyes out, blamed everyone else: my fellow players, the manager and was even going to report the ref to the league. It was pure petulance, immaturity and wanting to lash out and blame anyone because I had been unfairly stopped from winning.
      Of course the real reason was we weren’t good enough but I was young and unable to deal with it. The Rangers too I think are lashing out at anyone. I think they thought this game was a given. Where I had people just laugh at me for being a spoilt brat, The Rangers had a PR juggernaut that sprang into action. Protecting a spoilt brat from what should have been an valuable learning experience but instead instilling a perceived injustice whilst propping up the mantra of everyone is out to get us. Is it any wonder that their fans feel this way? They are being used as cannon fodder in this whole sorry saga and they need to wake up, grow up and realise that this is happening. This is David Murray’s mess, surrounding himself with sycophants who in turn do likewise and so it goes on and on and on. Where will it all end? God knows but I’ll tell you this. If it carries on much more the game is over, it may already be over. 

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on10:52 pm - May 22, 2016


I spoke to one of my brothers, a retired police inspector, about the crowd control failures at Hampden on Saturday . He pointed out a video  of one of the gates which was manned by four stewards who were making no attempt to stop people going through the said gate and onto the pitch .  A policeman manning the gate would be told that no one passes through unless there was a medical emergency  and he would be armed with a baton to ensure that was the case .
I can understand why the Hibs fans invaded the pitch but  can’t condone it . I can understand why T’Rangers fans invaded the pitch but can’t condone it .Some bad winners and bad losers out there. This coming from someone who invaded the Wembley pitch in 1977 ! Conservatism of age .

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wottpiPosted on10:53 pm - May 22, 2016


Unbelievable!!!!

There was I trying to calm the waters and showing some understanding as to why T’Rangers may have come out with a knee jerk action.

Then this!!!!

They have totally lost the plot. Totally lost any perspective. Totally denied the history that they treasure so dear.

Barcelona, Villa Park , the 1980 cup final, Dalymount Park, Manchester, 2008, numerous Euro fines. Decades of (and lets not pretend its not) thousands glorifying being up to their knees in others blood on a regular basis. 

When did it ever become the duty of supporters to become vigilante defenders of the club and its players?

What the feck is this – a Batman movie???

How dare a diddy team have the audacity to steal the club from Govans crown of having the most vile supporters on the planet.

Once again,  like programme editors, tannoy announcers etc etc we are all to bow before the all powerful Ming because they have been affronted.

Don’t get me wrong, Hibs have to say something on the despicable behaviour of their fans but why is it T’Rangers are always first out of the starting blocks demanding an apology?

Why do they never allow things to take their natural course?

Hibs have a victory to celebrate. Despite being Edinburgh’s wee team they are not a club that is without class. Have the dignity to allow then to enjoy their success then gather their thoughts.

Has all decent Scottish society demanded  immediate apologies for decades of a sectarian employment policy, decades of social strife, decade of embarrassment representing the country abroad, decades of tax dodging, decades of down right cheating.

No –  the cost of it all was at £250k fine that we are not even sure has been paid yet.

SHAME SHAME SHAME.

I wholly expect Hibs to get hit where it hurts and it should be in a form that sends a big message to their fans. I have always said on here it is the only way to really drive the message home about how unacceptable fan behaviour is treated.

However, that being said, our friend Ryan can come across as the sensible moderate face of Rangers fans all he wants but the fact remains his club is an institutional basket case. Their sense of entitlement and their constant mock indignation and outrage is deep, dark and horrible.The latest statement just provides more evidence of that.

That statement shows exactly what it is to be a Real Rangers Man in the Blue Room. Twisted, self serving and having no regard as to how to make things better for all of the Scottish game. As opposed to building bridges and relationships and working with others to better things, ‘Tora Tora Tora’ is their default position.

Frankly Ryan my friend, go support Thistle or Queens Park, once you banish that lot from your life it will become much easier.

Just to add a bit or perspective a Mum at my lad’s football said this morning that she had the total displeasure of being located close to the segregation zone yesterday. She has no great knowledge of football, no particular allegiance but took her boy to the game as he supports the Hibs. Without any prompting whatsoever she proclaimed the behaviour of T’Rangers fans, from the off as totally disgusting and vile.

Rant over.

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jockybhoyPosted on10:53 pm - May 22, 2016


Sorry conflated two replies Hom: don’t give them ideas in relation to banning ALL Scottish teams – but weren’t Liverpool banned for a wee bit longer than the other teams? That’s a specific one team example….
but then as I say, this isn’t really going to be high on UEFAs radar, worse things have happened with little consequence. 

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easyJamboPosted on11:14 pm - May 22, 2016


shug  May 22, 2016 at 22:47 
Anyone think this is disgraceful an adult taking on a kid during the mayhem.
=======================
I just saw the clip of the kid being moved aside on the BBC News, but from a different angle. It looked as is the Rangers fan was trying to move him out the way before engaging with the Hibs fan. The Hibs fan then seems to take exception, moves the lad to the side, then throws a punch at the Rangers fan.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:16 pm - May 22, 2016


JOCKYBHOY
MAY 22, 2016 at 22:53
==================================

It’s a specific one team example, based on something which happened in a European competition.

It is not analogous.

Hibs will not be banned from European competition next year, either by the SFA or by UEFA. 

If they are then presumably Barca will be as well, based on their last game of the season and the support invading the pitch.

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easyJamboPosted on11:23 pm - May 22, 2016


Keith Jackson has just escalated scale of the problem claiming that all 11 Rangers players were assaulted or spat on after the final whistle.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/every-rangers-player-pitch-attacked-8028393#it2ZZIIZTe6pHAH8.97

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shug

shugPosted on11:27 pm - May 22, 2016


EJ from that angle it really looks more sinister but you may be correct after a few views I’m not sure the big guy is the full shilling the problem is that we will never know.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:33 pm - May 22, 2016


This is what the story should be

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/the-best-day-ever-hibs-8021198

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on11:39 pm - May 22, 2016


easyJamboMay 22, 2016 at 23:23

According to Kenny Miller’s wife, that’s untrue .

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:42 pm - May 22, 2016


  There has to be a reason for the rattle leaving the pram in such spectacular fashion. It may just be the tried and tested “Man the walls” to sell season books, but could there be more to it?
Has expected Europa money been tanned before they got it?.
Were players potentially going to sign if Europa fitba was on the table?
Was a couple of extra gate receipts part of next season’s budget? 
Was a potential “loan” predicated upon it?
Did they have a non-Mick Ashley Europa jersey in the pipeline? 
Does the smelly kit hamper get waved through customs unchecked, when the team arrive back at dark o’clock? 21 

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Kicker Conspiracy

Kicker ConspiracyPosted on11:56 pm - May 22, 2016


That’s the seed planted…

Matthew Lindsay‏@MattLindsayHT
In today’s @heraldscotland . . . Rangers legend urges SFA to kick Scottish Cup winners Hibs out of Europe.

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wottpiPosted on12:00 am - May 23, 2016


Stuff it – full whataboutery mode.

1987, nine years of pent up angst of no league titles expressed with exuberance.
Pitch invasion, goal posts down, song book full level, lap of honour delayed.
The main difference? Don’s fans didn’t go on the park looking for a fight.

3:10 onwards

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Paulmac2Posted on12:11 am - May 23, 2016


Not been on for a while….

Having absorbed the last 30 hours of information that has now become available to try and view the chaos of the Scottish Cup Final…it is obvious to me that both clubs must be held accountable for the scenes we witnessed….shameful.
I now find someone from SEVCO fc has released a 2nd statement….who the hell authorised that to be released on behalf of a so called professional football club?
There needs to be robust challenge to this from all sections of Scottish football and THE MEDIA…
You cannot as a so called professional football club…endorse pre meditated violence by your own support as justified behaviour.
You cannot in a statement accuse every single professional football club in Scotland of having supporters that would take to violence as justified behaviour.
You cannot as a so called professional football club advertise to your own support that future violence is acceptable..
The Hibs response may not be adequate under the circumstances…and I do not believe it is anywhere near adequate…but for the love of God…the shear stupidity and irresponsibility of the idiot who penned that SEVCO fc statement needs kicked out of football…
I have this horrible feeling that what has gone on in the last 4 years has now confirmed that SEVCO fc can do whatever they like…whenever they like…to whoever they like without consequence….and they know it…if that 2nd statement is not punished or challenged robustly in any meaningful way…then it will confirm what we all feared…they are running Scottish football….next up…fixed results to ensure revenue…
The Scottish FA are a joke….they will only do what they are told from SEVCO fc….so do not hold your breath waiting on them! 

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John ClarkPosted on12:15 am - May 23, 2016


Today’s  ‘Scotland on Sunday’ showed its double ‘Unionist’ colours very clearly by having on its front page ‘A second referendum? Exclusive poll shows views on independence  have changed as the EU vote looms’. 
A bit like Chick trying to show gravitas,by talking politics rather than leading on the success of Hibs. But , in the bottom left corner , there is ” Trouble flares as Hibs win..”  
But that’s by the way.

Andrew Smith has a wee account (whether true or mere speculation?) of how Dermot Desmond decided to go for Rodgers.

He was apparently really, really riled by the oafish, peasant, guttersnipe antics ( these are my words: his words are ‘the antics of the Rangers directors that day as they celebrated the penalty shoot-out win over Celtic.)

Smith  says ” The Irish billionaire was said to be furious that the normal etiquette rules were not respected as he sat in the vicinity of his Rangers counterparts at Hampden in the section set aside for dignitaries.Warm applause and happy smiles were cast aside for behaviour that, according to one insider, ” made you think they were in the Rangers end”.

Well, I say to Desmond, you were right up there describing TRFC as ‘ a fantastic club with a great history’, and saying how ‘disappointed’ you were that they’ did  not share  the same league set-up as Celtic.’

So, hell mend you, if,  as Smith narrates, ” the respect … then shown by the Celtic kingmaker for a great rival then suffering, was… thrown back ‘ in your  face .

You supped with the devil, and got a red-hot trident up your jaxie.

Now, instead of having insisted on the primacy of Sporting Integrity and demanding the expulsion of RFC (IL)  for its cheating, instead of blowing the whistle on the rottenness of the 5-way agreement, you have to spend a good few bob on getting Rodgers in order to avenge a personal slight which you ought to have expected from such a bunch of shysters and conmen and people who take their instructions from a convicted criminal.

In my opinion.

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wottpiPosted on12:18 am - May 23, 2016


Unashamedly Whataboutery 2
Remember all the pleas that all the actions of the previous boards, the financial doping and non footballing matters  had nowt to do with the actual esults on the pitch.
Victories were won fair and square. No sporting advantage obtained  and no sporting penalties such as points deductions or bans from competition were required.
However lo and behold already  reports of  petitions for Hibs Euro ban.

Once again I stress that I believe such a heavy penalty may actually make fans of all clubs wake up. However the hypocrisy is astounding.

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Paulmac2Posted on12:21 am - May 23, 2016


Kicker Conspiracy
May 22, 2016 at 23:56
…………………………..

Why do they have outstanding Tax payments?

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Paulmac2Posted on12:32 am - May 23, 2016


Take a look at Lee Wallace being confronted by a Hibs fan…with an attempted punch thrown by both in slow motion…and it looks to me that it was one of the match officials who runs from the left of the screen to his aid and appears to get involved to help Lee…the individual appears to have black shorts…black socks and tracksuit top…
His match report will be interesting if it is indeed a match official..

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wottpiPosted on12:33 am - May 23, 2016


JOHN CLARKMAY 23, 2016 at 00:15
Other issues have distracted things away from the bufoon Smith”s column  where he states, in relation to Desmond,  that

In that he spoke of the Ibrox institution “as a fantastic club with a great history”, of being “disappointed” they did not share the same league set-up as Celtic, and of how he was sure it wouldn’t “be long” before they were doing so. An assessment perfectly in line with how clubs across the world that take the name and form of liquidated forbears are understood to assume the former’s lineage

buts fails to explain why wth Scottish Football authorities haven’t simply and  automatically transferred the history of Airdrie and Gretna to the clubs that now use those names. Or why the Italians only allow a transfer of history on the condition the new club owners take on the unpaid social taxes.
Another example of poor journalism and spouting shite to suit an agenda.

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John ClarkPosted on12:40 am - May 23, 2016


ChristyboyMay 22, 2016 at 22:49
‘….This is David Murray’s mess, .’
_________
Yes,it is. Not that anyone in Press, Business, or Sport would ever admit it, they enjoyed his succulent lamb too much.
It is an incontrovertible fact that SDM cheated Scottish Football.
May his rotten cheating be adequately and proportionately punished in some forum or other, whether in this world or the next.

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goosygoosyPosted on12:59 am - May 23, 2016


WOTTPIMAY 22, 2016 at 22:53
However, that being said, our friend Ryan can come across as the sensible moderate face of Rangers fans all he wants but the fact remains his club is an institutional basket case.
………………………………
Basket case Yes………. Institution No
The Scottish  Premier league face 9 months of illegal sectarian singing at matches involving TRFC
This will no doubt be ignored  by the SFA, TV Companies and the media. But it won`t be ignored by fans who have already voted with their feet by cancelling their STs for next season 
All the management and fans had to do was to draw a line  that clearly distinguished Sevco Ltd from the cheats who owned the previous club playing at Ibrox.
If these new  fans had shown dignity and tolerance from the moment Sevco played their first game against Brechin on 29 July 2012 few people would have cared when they later on changed their name to TRFC.
They didn`t
Instead
They threw away a one off opportunity to earn the respect of  fans supporting the other 41 clubs

I`m glad to be out of  of all this bile

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tearsofjoyPosted on1:04 am - May 23, 2016


BEATIPACIFICISCOTIAMAY 22, 2016 at 11:57
***************************
An utterly ridiculous post , nor worthy of this site .

Just for the record , I’m a fan of HMFC , my mother’s family are of Irish origin and I’ve seen Hibs in various finals through the 1970s as we wenr to games “en famille”. So no anti Hibs bias from me.

But to your post –

“There was 2 full minutes for someone to make a decision and deploy the extra cover”.
And what exactly were the police supposed to do in this two minutes. To suggest the police are somehow to blame for the shameful episode or somehow lacking  is ridiculous.

The term “Hibs’d it” – originates from the forums of Hearts fans and has been doing the rounds for a very , very long time. How you can take this to be “goading” of Hibs fans/players is incredible. I’m sure both have been subject to much worse over the years.

“That said, to approach the Rangers fans for a GIRUY is maybe understandable (but not excusable) in the face of weeks of very public goading.”
Really ? Public goading ? The trash that confronted the Rangers fans are just that- trash. They trashed the name of their club and their fellow fans. They trashed the stadium too. Stop making excuses for them.
Some of the bias on this site is very disappointing. Rangers will be (hopefully) punished for their transgressions yesterday but the behavour of a substantial element of the Hibs support is completely inexcusable. They went looking for trouble and they found it.  The club should be punished accordingly.

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on1:11 am - May 23, 2016


John Clark
May 23, 2016 at 00:15
 
“You supped with the devil, and got a red-hot trident up your jaxie”
 
I could not find a smiley with a big enough grin so:
 
I made one (above)

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PLGlen

PLGlenPosted on1:38 am - May 23, 2016


From a personal perspective, Saturday was a day of highs and lows for me.
When I was 10, the team I supported (not the team my dad supported, btw) lifted the Scottish Cup – in 2016, when my son was 10, the team he supports (not the team I support, btw) lifted the Scottish Cup.
He felt like I did then. He had a big enough grin on his face!
IMHO, anyone who was on the park (regardless of colours) for the sole purpose of noising up and/or fighting with opposition fans, should be identified and never be allowed in a football stadium again.
I’ve been at my fair share of Senior and Junior games and witnessed a fair bit of bother, but never once did I feel the need to do that, whatever excuses are currently being rolled out.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:04 am - May 23, 2016


Today we are seeing the full excesses of what the SFA created in 2012 in all its glory. We see a football club that is completely unaccountable to anyone starting to run amok assisted by some well placed friends in the media. 

No sane person agrees with any assault or threatening behaviour that took place against Rangers staff. No sane person agrees with any of the violence that took place on Saturday. Both points are well established and the right thing to do is allow the Police to get on with their investigations and hopefully bring as many to justice as is possible. Not so with Rangers though, with their reprehensible attempts to justify reasons for the acts of violence their fans took part in, which is proven by video evidence. For many clubs to issue such a statement would bring charges of disrepute, but the SFA appear hopelessly compromised as it was they who put the bolt through the neck of the newco and charged it with electricity. Their creation is out of control.

Now we also have calls for Hibs to be banned from Europe being peddled by their well placed media friends. Is this desire just vindictive in nature or is there a genuine hope that Rangers will be awarded the place instead. Even the SFA would surely see that in the event of somehow not awarding Hibs the place, that it should then be awarded on the basis of genuine sporting achievement, i.e to the 4th placed team from the top league. 

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AOBPosted on7:38 am - May 23, 2016


I have been in California for a while so did not even know about the Scottish cup final. Nowadays usa is a big ‘soccer’ country and games from many countries are shown (English final was live). Anyway what has been the reaction to the Hampden game? Absolutely none. A news channel mentioned it once and saw the pitch invasion as a positive. Perspective.

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on8:47 am - May 23, 2016


Now that my eyebrows have returned to the front of my head after reading The Second Epistle From The People…
Is half past six on a Sunday evening during the close season a normal time to make a public pronouncement? Seems a lot of trouble to open a football stadium for something that could have kept until the morning.
I see that the statement is being attributed by some to Jabba The Leveller but I’m not so sure. The statement contains some oafish phrases which could easily have been penned by Mr Traynor but I suspect some plagiarism. The most telling part of the statement, for me, is when the author feels obliged to list persons who are not playing the game according to the Marquess of Manchester Rules. I can only think of one person who loves a List.
I see that about ten seconds after the statement was issued Chris Graham was on Twitter giving his opinion that it was “spot on”.
Well, he would, wouldn’t he?
I also see that one of those on The List; Tom English, intends to contact Mr Traynor so we may find out in time who was breaking the Sabbath, no doubt for filthy lucre.
As for the statement itself I’m sure that the author, and those on whose behalf it was issued, are aware that the “full independent investigation” demanded will include the serial pyrotechnics and the peace loving, tree hugging, knit your own muesli singing of respectful songs about not surrendering, famine, guarding walls, sword in hand and the ever popular Murdering Catholics Song.
Perhaps the oddest thing in the oddest statement ever is the reference to yet another on The List; The First Minister.
Does Nicola Sturgeon really have a “parish” in Govan?
I think that someone is a bit confused about the word “Minister”.
I think that there is only one man capable of sorting this out.
Hello, Hello,
I Am The SFA…

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on9:10 am - May 23, 2016


Tuppence worth alert.

Tom English – Now you are on the list of “Rangers Haters” and have officially been declared a rightful target by the club can I ask whether all the avoidance of questions from this forum and elsewhere was worth it? If you sing from the hymn sheet supplied to you by level 5 then you have left the world of honest journalism behind. You cannot now cry foul because Level 5 now see you as a means to stoke the fires of hatred that succeeds in deflecting attention from the “real Rangers men”.

It is not too late though for re-admittance to the honest world, the world that in times gone by the predecessors in your chosen profession would have fought tooth and nail to defend.
The first step for you is to accept that there ARE questions that need answering. That terms like “complicated” and “flawed” do not make subjects no go areas. In fact, for true journalists, these are terms that would peak their investigative genes. The aim of the profession you chose should be, and once was, to inform and question. Come back to it.

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on9:20 am - May 23, 2016


Now to the defence of the stewards on duty on Saturday.

In a month that has seen calls for those who made mistakes at Hillsborough to be pilloried and flogged, the guys on Saturday, who gave up holding back the Hibs fans entering the playing area, may well have seen the pressure of the surge of fans building. What do they do? Hold their ground with the risk that the surge pressure results in injuries or even death or allow the flow onto the pitch in the knowledge that plans were in place to deal with that occurrence? They knew after all there were scores of police and mounted constables in reserve.
Surely they did the right thing.

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on9:29 am - May 23, 2016


On the other hand the the stewards in this seem to allow any Rangers supporter under the age of sixty free access to the pitch.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on9:39 am - May 23, 2016


Is that statement the worst ever from TRFC? I think it is, and that takes some doing.

Is there any indication that it is a genuine/official TRFC statement, one they can be held responsible for? It is, on some levels, as bad as the attack dog whistler McCoist’s, which he somehow escaped punishment for. Talk about fighting fire with parafin, there was no water thrown by the authorities then, the SFA, or the police, and now the successors continue to stoke the flames!

As inflamatory statements go, that must be the worst ever in Scottish (perhaps any) football. Compare and contrast with the one Romanov gave to the press, when not actually a Hearts official, that led to a fine, from memory, of £100,000 for the club, after the rules had to be changed, retrospectively, to allow the SFA to impose it. Romanov’s rant has proven to be quite accurate in the past four and a bit years, perhaps that’s why he, or rather Hearts, were punished so heavily. I expect this latest nonsense from Ibrox will go unsensured, but, in the meantime, the bears’ anger grows!

There will be a few STs sold on the back of it, too. And should Hibs meet TRFC next season…! Perhaps, for once, the hot ball might be fully justified!

Could you imagine, if the tables were turned, and TRFC had won the cup, their fans had invaded the pitch etc, and Hibs had issued that statement? Hibs wouldn’t be seeing much of their prize money, that’s for sure.

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Reiver

ReiverPosted on10:01 am - May 23, 2016


And now to super hack Chico Young.

On Saturday evening he gave his eye witness report that on the final whistle Hibs supporters invaded the pitch and, I quote, “hundreds of them charged the Rangers end with sole intention to cause trouble”. Well if you would care to lower your estimation to about twenty and care to comment that they were so full of violent intent that they punch a beach ball around just to release their anger then you may have a point. When I heard his report it set me to questioning myself. We all have strengths and weakness is in our personal skills. For me one of the strengths is quantitative judgement, the analysis of patterns and his allegations didn’t seem to ring true. So I have been filtering through the youtube clips trying to gain a clearer assessment in the cold light of day and my initial assessment is that, by the time the main invasion is over there are about twenty to thirty people right up at the Rangers end. At this stage I cannot say how many were stewards or if any of them were Rangers supporters but I can say that there were not “hundreds”. Oh, and the beach ball was taking a right battering.

Be clear I an disappointed that invasion happened, I am disgusted with those that looked for trouble but I save my biggest outrage for those that approached or struck the Rangers players or staff. I equally have disgust for those in the media whose inaccurate and irresponsible reporting not only do nothing for the attempts to analyse what happened but put at risk the crowd behaviour at matches next season.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on10:09 am - May 23, 2016


A lesson to TRFC in how to do dignified statements. All that is necessary to say. Won’t sell season tickets, I have to admit.

From Hibs website, their official statement –

‘Hibernian FC this evening confirmed that it will co-operate fully into any inquiry into the pitch invasion which followed the club’s historic Scottish Cup win at Hampden Park.
The Club reiterates its regret at the events which unfolded immediately following the final whistle. Hibernian always seeks to maintain high standards, and we will work with the authorities to identify any supporter who may have taken part in any form of unacceptable behaviour which has tarnished the club’s reputation.
Hibernian will work with Police Scotland, Hampden Park Stadium Management, the Scottish FA, Rangers FC and any other relevant parties to bring those responsible to book.’

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TrisidiumPosted on10:15 am - May 23, 2016


The actual authorship of TRFC statements doesn’t matter in my view. Level 5 are retained by TRFC as their PR and Media Management department, so anything that goes out is under their auspices and has the implicit or explicit approval of Level 5 and Traynor.

Two statements have been issued since the end of the Scottish Cup final. For consistency of nomenclature we shall classify them thusly;

one on Saturday – The Wee Statement (TWS) – and one on Sunday – The Big Statement (TBS).

Leaving aside some the content in TBS for the moment, the explicit naming of journalists in the thinly veiled dog whistle paragraph is something no-one with any journalistic integrity could possibly countenance. If James Traynor is not the writer of the piece he should be disassociating himself from it.

I fully understand and sympathise with TRFC over the treatment their players received at the end of the match. The rest is deflection and white noise induced by the desperate need to sell season tickets.

The extent of the abuse of players (and whether or not it is being exaggerated) is immaterial from my perspective. Assault of players is just not on, and is utterly despicable.

The image of Wes Foderingham being threatened, assaulted and bullied is one I wish I had never been exposed to, and it would be a heartless individual who did not feel compassion for that young man in that moment.

However TBS appeared to use that incident as a justification for violent acts carried out by their fans – and a green light to do so in future. That message comes over loud and clear;

“Any club’s supporters would have done the same”

Really? I certainly hope they would not – but even so, it would be wrong if they did.

The archaic reference (in TBS) to the First Minister’s ‘parish’ is odd. Is that a maliciously considered use of the word to inject a quasi-religious element – or written by someone who doesn’t understand the difference between a religious Congregation, a trade union branch, a nineteenth century council ward, and a Holyrood constituency?

Here is a list of real problems.

The media are reporting claims contained in TWS & TBS as fact (despite the contradiction implied by a Rangers player’s wife on Twitter). 

The DR are giving space to a rabble-rousing ‘Rangers blogger’, further stoking up the fires.

There is no journalistic ‘parish’ solidarity being shown towards two colleagues who were the subject of the dog-whistle. Solidarity doesn’t travel in that direction, although it has an easy journey across the squinty bridge from Anderson Quay.

The Scottish government, also targets of TBS, are to frit for electoral reasons to challenge the paranoia.

The SFA, for reasons we have discussed here for four years, are too conflicted, or afraid to stand up to bullies who one must assume know where the SFA bodies are buried.

We can give Hibs a pass for the moment. They want to get on with enjoying their success before dealing with the slur on their character implied by TBS. I suspect though, that fear will be the dominant consideration when they decide upon their response.

The sad, bleak conclusion is that there is nobody in the Scottish establishment who has the courage to stand up to this extortion. The BBC, the red-tops, the quality papers, the clubs and the government all cower in fear when the Ibrox lion roars. This is Scottish football in the 21st century.

I ask myself this. After TWS on Saturday (lacking in self awareness as it was) what did TRFC hope to achieve with their offering on Sunday (TBS)?

To hold out an olive branch to the rest of Scottish football? To demand an enquiry which has already been promised the day before? No. The statement is in essence demagoguery, an inward facing call to arms and instilling a sense of victimhood.

TBS, for all it’s bluster and justification of violence simply says this;

Rangers fans! Give us your cash!

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TommyBPosted on10:20 am - May 23, 2016


Hibs statement appears to be a measured approach. Unlike the sabre rattling attempt to rally the people who think they are. Sevco have their season ticket sales drive in full flow and are happy to have something that deflects from their inept performance on the day. 

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