The Rangers saga as it happened…

Bystevensanph

The Rangers saga as it happened…

The last 12 months has seen a lot of water pass under the bridge.  For a newcomer it is very hard to see past what the MSM are currently printing – I hope this article will go someway to rectifying that, and allow those who didn’t follow this story from the start to get a basic understanding of the views that have been formed on Rangerstaxcase.com and on TSFM.  Further, I hope it refreshes the memories of those of us who have followed the saga since the early days and focuses our attention on asking key questions that remain unasked or unanswered.

I have provided links where possible throughout the time line.  I have also highlighted in red where the story seems to end, a question remains unasked, or no answer has been forthcoming.  I may also have missed some critical points – feel free to mention these and we can add as we go.

The Rangers Saga as it happened…

June 2001: Christian Nerlinger joins Rangers.  Little be known to the rest of Scottish football he will be the first player paid by an EBT (an Employee Benefit Trust) which will later be declared illegal (as administered by Rangers) by HMRC.

Summer 2004: Jean Alain Boumsong rejects English Premier League sides to sign for Rangers on a free transfer.  Six months later he is sold (January of 2005) to Newcastle in an 8million deal .  This deal is later investigated by the City of London police who raided Newcastle and Rangers in June 2007.

A later report from Lord Steven remarked:

“There remains inconsistencies in evidence provided by Graeme Souness – a former manager of the club – and Freddy Shepherd – apparently acting in an undefined role but not as a club official – as to their respective roles in transfer negotiations.”

April 2010: HMRC hit Rangers with a tax bill of 24m before penalties for non payment of taxes  on monies remitted to players and staff via the EBT scheme.

27th March 2011: A new blog appears on wordpress named ‘Rangerstaxcase.com’.  Little did we know the impact it will have on Scottish Football.

6th of May 2011: Craig Whyte buys Rangers FC PLC for 1gbp from David Murray, with his holding company Wavetower taking over 85% of the Football club.

Mid-May 2011:  Craig Whyte renames Wavetower to the ‘Rangers Football Group Ltd’, the holding company for Rangers FC PLC.  He immediately claims he has cleared the Rangers debt to Lloyds Bank and is ready to invest in the team.  He quickly removes Alastair Johnston and Paul Murray from the Board and suspends  Martin Bain and Donald McIntyre.

5th June 2011: RTC uncovers a MG05 document filed at Companies House showing that Rangers have assigned 4 years of season ticket sales to another company.  This is later denied by Craig Whyte, but later on turns out to be the mechanism by which Whyte funded the takeover.

19th June 2011: Craig Whyte is asked about the RTC blog, remarking:

“I’m aware of a website that has dedicated itself to talking about our tax case, I’ve looked at it. What they’re saying is 99 per cent crap”

August 2011: Rangers are knocked out of Europe by Maribor.  A seemingly irrelevant event, but one that leaves a £15m hole in Craig Whytes budget.  One that he meets by not paying the tax man.  RTC questions in October where this money was coming from…

10th September 2011: Court papers from Martin Bain, related to his employment case against Rangers explode across the internet (papers in full here).  Within them there is a plea from Bain’s lawyers to freeze the claimed compensation as they feel there is a question mark over the clubs solvency.  Further it exposes the assignment of ticket sales to a 3rd party and shows that the debt owed to Lloyds Bank has not been discharged completely.  RTC analysis’ of these ‘Bain papers’ is concluded with the following:

While Rangers’ supporters might not be in any mood to thank anyone for helping shed light on this situation, it is good for their club (if not its current and previous owners) that this information is in the public domain. It is especially good for our national game as a whole that we discuss the problems of the last decade openly. Rangers supporters need to ask themselves why they have meekly stood by while the future of their club has been imperiled and whether their “friends” in the media have done them an injustice by becoming complicit in the cover-up of this story.

Unfortunately, despite the information being exposed to all, the Rangers fans failed to listen…

October 2011:  In the first mainstream feature on the case, the BBC air a documentary proving that Craig Whyte had been banned from holding a director position in UK companies for 7 years for ‘putting assets out of the reach of creditors’.  BBC are banned from Ibrox and Whyte claims he will sue the BBC for presenting false evidence – but later admits that he was disqualified.  Rather amusingly he admits this the same day he reveals Rangers have reduced their debt to 14m…. (they hadn’t)

The SFA stay silent on the matter and the writ received by the BBC in February 2012 has since vanished.

30th November 2011:  Rangers PLC release un-audited accounts for the year 2010/2011 revealing profits of 2 million pounds and NET Assets of 76m.  The accounts are NOT signed by an auditor leading to rumors all is not well in Ibrox.

January 2012: RTC explains in detail Succulent Lamb Journalism…  the phrase becomes a defining point of the story, along with ‘internet bampots’, coined by Hugh Keevins.

18th January 2012:  The ‘Big tax case’ concludes.  We still await the findings…

13th February: Rangers file papers at the Court of Session giving notice of their intention to enter administration within 7 days…

14th February:  HMRC petition the CoS to allow them to appoint administrators.  After a short hearing, HMRC withdraw the motion and Rangers PLC promptly appoints the now infamous Duff & Phelps as administrators.  On Valentines eve, Craig Whyte stands on the steps of Ibrox and announces to the angry mob the unthinkable… Rangers FC PLC is now in administration.

That evening it is confirmed that HMRC had pushed for administration over £9 million in unpaid VAT, PAYE and NI since the Whyte takeover.  This later rises to 18m.

99% what Craig?

15th February 2012: The SPL immediately deduct Rangers (IA) 10 points for entering administration, as per league rules.  Possibly the last time they follow their own rules throughout this saga.

Bizarrely, Rangers (IA) push ahead with the proposed signing of Daniel Cousin on wages of 7500GBP/week.  The SFA make no comment, despite this being against the rules for a club in administration.

David Murray, in typical fashion, professes surprise at events which RTC warned about 12 months earlier while Murray was still in charge.  Murray also says:

“Firstly, there has been no decision, and there is no present indication as to the timing of a decision, from the first-tier tax tribunal concerning the potential claim from HMRC of £36.5m excluding interest and penalties.

“Secondly, legal opinion on the strength of the club’s case remains favorable.”

21st February: Daily Mail confirm what RTC told us last year, by confirming that Ticketus bought 100,000 season tickets at Ibrox over the next 4 years.  It was this money that Whyte used to buy the club.  Rangers fans are up in arms.  Even though they ignored the warnings a year earlier.

The SFA announce that Lord Nimmo Smith will chair an inquiry into the circumstances leading to administration.

25th February 2012: The Sun on Sunday launches by printing what they claim is a ‘side letter’ given to Rangers players. A financial expert tells them:

“Number one, you are going to get £122,000 and number two you get £1,200 for a first-team game.

“It equates to salary as far as I am concerned. I would say this sort of letter will be a central thread in the big tax case.

RTC will later confirm they are correct.

27th February 2012:  The SFA confirm they will start an investigation into these ‘side letters’

3rd March 2012: D&P admit Rangers have no chance of making Europe next season, as they admit audited accounts by the 31st of March would be almost impossible.

However, in a baffling move, one month later D&P reveal they are ‘appealing’ the decision to ban Rangers from Europe.  UEFA respond by saying

“Licence applicants must demonstrate that as at March 31, 2012, they have no payables overdue towards their employees or social/tax authorities as a result of contractual/legal obligations to their employees that arose prior to December 31, 2011.”

8th March 2012:  Lord Nimmo Smith forwards his report to the SFA Judicial Panel.  The report contains prima facie evidence that Craig Whyte was not a ‘fit and proper person’.  A hearing is set for the 29th of March.  This is later postponed at the request of Whyte.  The full Nimmo Smith report has still not been released by the SFA.

9th March 2012: With no redundancies in sight, Rangers players agree to pay cuts, ranging from 75 – 25%.  It is later revealed that these are not ‘pay cuts’, but pay deferments which must be repaid in the summer, otherwise Rangers will be in breach of contract.  No info is forthcoming in the summer on whether this was paid or not.

5th April 2012: D&P reveal in their first creditors report that Rangers debts could top 134m, with HMRC claiming 93m of the total.

The report also details debts to football creditors of around 2.3m.  It also details debts of hundreds of creditors, such as that for Susie Thomson – a face-painter from Glasgow owed 40quid.  These were the real human losers in this story.

Interestingly, assets are valued at 116m, as per the 2011 accounts.

23rd April 2012: The SFA’s independent panel finds Rangers (IA) guilty of 5 different breaches of SFA rules relating to disrupte charges and are handed a 160,000GBP fine, the maximum available and a 12 month transfer embargo.  The judicial panel state that the offenses committed by Rangers were only one step “lower than match fixing”, and reveal that they considered the punishment of suspension of license or expulsion from the SFA.  They determine a fine would not be enough given the seriousness of the charges and thus impose a transfer embargo.

In the judgement, the panel make reference to evidence given by the Rangers Financial Controller who said invoices to Ticketus were such that they ” appeared as though Clip Art computer processes had been involved in their creation.” The FC tells the  panel he had never seen them.

24th April 2012:  The uproar from Ibrox is loud, with the Bears taking their anger out on the SFA.  McCoist makes a rallying call, demanding to know “who these people are”  He makes an ‘apology’ the next day for putting their lives in danger, but stops short of apologising for forcing names to be released, despite his club previously voting in a motion to keep names confidential.

As a result, a poor director at Raith Rovers takes his family into protective police custody, and Raith are forced to hire round the clock security after arson threats to their ground.  Finally, in August 2012, McCoist is charged by the SFA for his remarks.  He has decided to challenge the charge and the case is ongoing.

Rangers blame the SFA for not stopping Whyte earlier, despite warnings before he took over from RTC.

“Why did the SFA not investigate when they said they had suspicions before Christmas rather than wait until the club went into administration?

9th May 2012:  American tycoon Bill Miller walks away from a proposed offer for Rangers (IA) after being subjected to threats from the Ibrox crowd and discovering a “30 million black hole” in the Rangers accounts.

11th May 2012: Rangers reveal they will appeal the transfer embargo and fine imposed.  The SFA inexplicably name the 3 man panel that will oversee the decision, going against SFA rules agreed by ALL clubs, including Rangers (IA).

13th May 2012:  Reports suggest Charles Green, backed by a global consortium (still unknown!) has bought shares from Craig Whyte for 2quid.  He is given an exclusivity period to propose a CVA worth 8.5m.

17th May 2012: SFA uphold the transfer embargo against Rangers (IA) .  The SFA state that it was “proportionate to the breach, dissuasive to others and effective in the context of serious misconduct, bringing the game into disrepute.”

The Rangers Fighting Fund along with D&P announces they are paying a lawyer to challenge the SFA in the Court of Session.  SFA say nothing.

22nd May 2012:  It is now May, 3 months since the SFA/SPL announced an investigation into side letters and unauthorized payments to players from Rangers FC.  RTC once again provides evidence of a ‘prima facie’ case by revealing details of Christian Nerlinger’s EBT letters.

23rd May 2012: BBC air a damning documentary revealing details of EBT payments and side letters to Rangers players since 2001.  They also uncover emails showing that D&P’s David Grier seemed to have prior knowledge of the Ticketus deal.  D&P and Craig Whyte threaten legal action, but none is forthcoming.  The BBC also hint at payments made to managers not employed by Rangers at the time, including Graeme Souness.

29th of May 2012:  D&P reveal their ‘CVA’ proposal.  One that was doomed to fail, offering creditors little or nothing.  It also revealed if it was rejected then the ‘assets’ would automatically be sold to Charles Green and Sevco 5088 for just 5.5m (the ‘new’ value of the assets.  No evidence has yet been presented on how these ‘assets’ were valued.)

On the same day (seeing the pattern of bad news being overshadowed by good news yet?) Rangers ‘win’ at the Court of Session, with the court ruling that the SFA had no powers to give a transfer ban.  They decide to refer the decision back to the SFA judicial panel to decide on a new punishment.

Lawyer Gregory Ioannidis remarks:

“If the Scottish Football Association decides to not take action against Rangers, in relation to Rangers submitting the application to the Court of Session, then Fifa can actually penalise the SFA, and the individual club, and the national team of Scotland, and impose an international ban on all of them.”

No action is ever taken by the SFA or FIFA.

12th June 2012:  HMRC release a statement saying that they will reject the CVA.  Given that they have over 25% of the debt, it makes the creditors meeting scheduled for the 14th irrelevant.

“A CVA would restrict the scope of such action. Moreover, the liquidation route does not prejudice the proposed sale of the club. This sale can take place either through a CVA or a liquidation, so the sale is not being undermined, it simply takes a different route.

“Liquidation will enable a sale of the football assets to be made to a new company, thereby ensuring that football will continue at Ibrox. It also means that the new company will be free from claims or litigation in a way which would not be achievable with a CVA.

“Rangers can make a fresh start.”

14th June 2012: The CVA is formally rejected.  D&P immediately sell the assets to Sevco 5088 Ltd and Rangers FC PLC (IA) cease to operate as a football club.   The assets are later assigned to Sevco Scotland Ltd.  SPL rules state that a club that ceases to function as a football club should immediately relinquish its share and membership.  This does not happen.

15th June 2012:  Ian Hart denies being part of the Green consortium buying the Rangers assets.  Green had earlier named him when pushed to name his backers

So starts the misinformation campaign from Sevco.

17th June 2012: Rangers FC are excluded from the fixture list for the forthcoming SPL season, replaced instead by ‘Club 12’.  It is widely reported, that if Sevco Scotland are refused a place in the SPL, then Club 12 will be Dundee.  The SPL give no reasons why.

17th – 27th June 2012: Walter Smith, Allan Stewart and Stephen McKenna, and then John Brown all turn up in the papers making ‘bids’ for the assets which Green has already bought.

22nd June 2012 – Lord Hodge seeks report from D & P re: a potential “conflict of interest”, after information given to him by the BBC.

25th June 2012: The BBC reveal that Sevco Scotland will not be granted admission to the SPL, after 6 clubs publicly declare their opposition, after season ticket sales fail to materialize as fans make their views known.

27th June 2012:  John Brown stands on the steps of Ibrox and pleads with Rangers fans not to buy season tickets until Green reveals who are his backers and who owns Ibrox.  This question remains unanswered.  Brown is now silent.

4th July 2012:  Despite weeks of pressure from the SFA, SPL and MSM, the SPL clubs reject the application from Sevco Scotland to join the SPL.

Stewart Regan warns of Armageddon for Scottish Football if Sevco are not admitted to SFL1 instead.  We are still waiting.

5th July 2012Stenhousemuir reveal details of a talk given to them by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, where SFL clubs are threatened with bankruptcy if they don’t vote Sevco Scotland into Division 1.  Figures presented are ridiculed by the internet bampots.

Clyde and Raith Rovers emerge as the cheerleaders for sporting integrity in the lower leagues, with both clubs openly speaking out against what they describe as “irresponsible”.  Raith Chairman Turnbull Hutton suggests the SFL clubs send their mascots to vote on the proposal for Sevco to enter SFL1.

9th July 2012: the SFA refuse international clearance for players who decided to leave Rangers (IA) when the assets were sold, as were their rights under the TUPE laws.  This decision has yet to be explained, and is contrary to legal advice.

Meanwhile, Sevco director Imran Ahmad, when asked what he felt was the exit price to sell Rangers/Sevco was, replied:

“On a bad day the club is worth £50m.”

Of course, they had just bought the club for just 5.5m, and still had no league place for the forthcoming season.

13th July 2012:  Expiry of deadline for submission of report on D&P conflict of interest.  News suggests that Lord Hodge is on holiday.  No news has been heard since and the administration continues…

13th July 2012: Sevco Scotland are allowed to start life in the 3rd division, subject to gaining an SFA licence, after SFL clubs vote to reject the proposal to allow Sevco Scotland into the 1st division.   There is no sign of Armageddon.

15th July 2012FIFA write to the SFA asking for reasons why former Rangers IA players are having their registration transfer blocked.  The players claim their free agents and have rejected the TUPE arrangements with Green’s new club.  As of August Allan McGregor’s move to Turkey is still onhold as they wait on international clearance.  We await an answer, as we suspect FIFA do to.

24th July 2012: Ian Black signs a 3 year deal with Sevco Scotland.  It is unclear how he is registered or who he is contracted to.

9pm, 27th July 2012:  Just 48 hours before the first scheduled match for Sevco Scotland the SFA grant an unheard of ‘conditional’ membership to Sevco Scotland.  It is reported that Sevco Scotland have agreed to a 12 month transfer embargo, starting on the 1st of September 2012.  They also agree to pay all football debts of Rangers (IA).

Sevco, playing in strips of Rangers (IA) defeat Brechin City in extra time to record their first ever victory.  Ian Black plays as a trialist, despite signing a contract with Sevco Scotland earlier in the week.  It is further unclear whether players are registered to Rangers IA or Sevco Scotland, and if the former, how?

31st July 2012: At an EGM of Rangers FC PLC (IA) the directors change the company name to Rangers 2012 (IA).  At the same time Sevco Scotland pass a resolution to change their name to ‘The Rangers FC Ltd’.  Companies house data shows that Charles Green owns more than 10% of The Rangers FC Ltd, despite his claims that no one person would own more than this.  No one from the MSM thinks to ask this question.

3rd August 2012:  The Rangers FC Ltd are granted full SFA membership, after having the membership of Rangers 2012 (IA) transferred to them.  Under what rules this was possible is not clear.

ESPN follow SKY in agreeing a new deal with the SPL for TV rights.  No sign of Armageddon yet.

15th August 2012: Dundee Utd in a short statement reveal that they have not been paid by Sevco/TRFC for the unpaid debt relating to last season’s Scottish Cup with Rangers (IA).  Despite an agreement with the SFA to pay these debts, Charles Green blames the SPL for going back on a agreement made in May to pay this out of money owed to Rangers (IA).  Dundee Utd, and other European clubs remain unpaid, as does the poor face painter from Glasgow.

It is unclear how the ‘conditional’ membership works if the ‘conditions’ have not been met.  

STV further report that SPL clubs still do not know how much TV cash they are going to get from the new SPL SKY deal.  The SPL make no comment.

17th August 2012: Lord Nimmo Smith is appointed to chair an independent commission into Rangers (IA) making undeclared payments to players from 2001 onwards.  They are unlikely to sit before October.

22nd August 2012: ‘The Rangers’ announce they have signed a joint venture with Sports Direct for the merchandising rights.  Companies House shows that the new company, ‘Rangers Retail’, is owned 100% by SportsDirect.com

23rd August 2012: There is still no word on who are the investors in Sevco Scotland.  The SFA have not released any details to explain how Green passed the fit and proper person test.  No details of proof that Sevco Scotland have the finances to last the season.  The question of where are Ticketus is silent. Lord Hodge has still not returned his findings on a conflict of interest in the appointment of D&P.  The FTT result is still awaited, just like BDO await the liquidation of Rangers 2012 PLC.  Meanwhile, Stewart Regan resurfaces to announce details of league reorganization in time for next season, reducing Scotland to 3 leagues from 4.

Oh… and there is still no signs of Armageddon.

28th August 2012: Campbell Ogilvie finally breaks cover to talk about how league reconstruction was on the agenda long before Rangers ran into problems.  He managed however to proclaim;

To be fair, nobody really saw the situation coming

Yes Campbell… just like you didn’t see the side letters.

—-

StevensanPH is an exiled St.Johnstone fan living in the Philippines – he runs the SaintinAsia blog writing about all aspects of Scottish Football.  Thankfully the MSM don’t sell papers in the Philippines…”

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1,011 Comments so far

bad capt madmanPosted on11:57 pm - Aug 29, 2012


Forweonlyknow,

It isn’t just about Little’s goals. If there have been irregularities, “honest mistakes”, or shenanigans with player registrations, all results should be void, with a 3-0 score to the opponents. That is the consequence. The ‘punishment’ should be additional, e.g fines, additional points deductions or suspensions for any deliberate abuse of the rules. An independant tribunal or two might need to be wheeled out needed again.

Of course, the suspicion is that in the cobbled together fix to keep Sevco in the leagues, the SFA may have cooperated in not checking whether registration of players was done properly during the transfer from RFC to Sevco, and possibly now Sevco to TRFC. Jings, crivens, help ma boab, maybe all those folk maybe just overlooked such a minor technicality, even with all those legal advisors there too.

The SFA of course will not be able to investigate anything now without compromising itself.

The instances of signed players turning out as trialists in the Brechin game are very suspicious, and the amount of players leaving with no confirmed fees is another possible sign of something extremely fishy going on.

Of course, if the SFA have been in cahoots with Sevco, its a sure thing that they are now over a barrel if anyone (I couldn’t possibly name any names) might choose to put any undue pressure on those good men and true. ( I hesitate to wonder if they are now blackmailed, useless, conflicted, and well past their sell by date). I hope I’m wrong though.

Another thought, if the registrations were done properly, players leaving now might be ineligiblde to play if they have already been registered twice this season. What are the criteria for the requirement to register again if the “club” changes?…is it the legal entity that changed? Or is a mere name change applicable? Who knows? There might not be an appropriate rule in the articles of association. Any legal eagles looked at this?

If this is a real issue it becomes a matter for other national associations now as well. The SFA might need to have a little explanation or two ready for FA, UEFA, and FIFA, as well as assorted lawyers.

Conversely, if the registrations weren’t done properly, are there implications for these transfers for the receiving clubs as well as the above mentioned omnishambles?

We won’t know the facts until the SFA leadership are swept away. Or maybe never, any paperwork will have been well changed by now.

Oh, is Mr Ogilvie still there, and can he just walk about offices, doing whatever he wants to bits of paper on folks desks?

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forweonlyknowPosted on12:02 am - Aug 30, 2012


Agrajag says:
August 29, 2012 at 23:43

Who would have thought … (Imagine what will … what if … )

Spot on!

Making sure that a form of ‘TRFC’ was here in August 12 was (and in essence), still is, a driving force for those in the upper levels (eschelones?) of Scottish Fitba!

We must all (I repeat all Scottish Fitba fans), make sure that the ‘old media’ guys know that we’ll not accept it! They (excluding cheating) robbed us all of …stuff! ;D

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midcalderanPosted on12:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


Captain Haddock says:
August 29, 2012 at 23:57

Forweonlyknow,

It isn’t just about Little’s goals
——————————–
Great read Captain. Do you see Catch 22 coming up?

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Torrevieja JohnbhoyPosted on12:14 am - Aug 30, 2012


For what it’s worth,a wee bit of info came my way tonight during a bit of pub talk after the game.I think the gist of it may have been mentioned on RTC but I’m not sure.
Anyway,I trust the guy I’m talking to.
He tells me a public body asked it’s staff if there’s anything they could do to improve their working arrangements.The staff overwhelmlingy replied yes.Pay us through an EBT like the chairman.I don’t know if his name has been mentioned wrt EBTs but here’s a link:

http://www.sfc.ac.uk/about_the_council/council_board_committees/council_membership/roi_john_mcclelland.aspx

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forweonlyknowPosted on12:14 am - Aug 30, 2012


Captain Haddock says:
August 29, 2012 at 23:57

I totally agree! I only asked the question! ;

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bad capt madmanPosted on12:16 am - Aug 30, 2012


Catch 22, it’s the best there is!

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bad capt madmanPosted on12:30 am - Aug 30, 2012


Sorry, me again.

Fans / clubs playing teams who have signed ex RFC/Sevco/TRFC players could, if they read this blog of course, wait till the season is well under way, then ask their FA to investigate whether those players were eligible to be registered and to play, or even be on the team sheet.

Would other FAs get any proper answers from the SFA that would stand up in the Court of Arbitration?

What fun, except that the reputation of Scottish football would be damaged even further.

Now, which teams are involved? Think I’ll make a start on a list…..

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StanblackPosted on12:41 am - Aug 30, 2012


in a strange old world when your national football association are scared of the fans and any questions. Wee regan tweeted like a celeb until the going got tough, now he is holding out for a fat cheque to head down south having lost the resolve he may have had at the start.

its a shame he did not have the strength to deal with rangers and ogilvie, he could have been a hero instead of choosing zero..

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BunionPosted on12:45 am - Aug 30, 2012


One of the real benefits of Celtic making the Champions League group stages tonight won’t be the money pouring in to Celtic Park.

It will be the swift and dramatic re-focusing of the MSM. They are now faced with a choice of continuing to ‘big up’ The Rangers playing against the likes of Forres Mechanics, Montrose, Peterhead, etc. or, covering the glamour ties that could be coming to Celtic Park (Real Madrid? Barcelona? Man City? Man Utd?, Arsenal? Porto? etc.)

Celtic’s qualification to the group stages puts in sharp focus exactly where, and what, The Rangers are now …… a lower league club of little or no significant import other than to those who follow and those who believe what once was still remains.

“of little or no significant import other than to those ……. who believe what once was still remains.”. Suppose the same could be said of the current MSM really?

“Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end”

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CEPosted on12:45 am - Aug 30, 2012


Congratulations to Celtic on their CL qualification. Great news for them, and good news for Scottish football.

Did someone say Armageddon?

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Bilbo_123Posted on1:17 am - Aug 30, 2012


Can I just say how much I enjoyed Hearts, Celtic, Dundee Utd, etc in Europe.. I’ve watched every game and even where they may not succeed I’m seeing good, honest football! Passionate even when frustrating & intense. Haven’t smiled as much since I was a kid…
– ,,,Barry, by the way!

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ExiledCeltPosted on2:06 am - Aug 30, 2012


CE says:

August 30, 2012 at 00:45

Congratulations to Celtic on their CL qualification. Great news for them, and good news for Scottish football.

Did someone say Armageddon?

***************

I believe someone did – now who that was originally before SR repeated it – Salmond anyone? – I demand to know!!!

Seems most if not all clubs have a better chance of surviving the next 8 months than a certain Tribute Band making new friends (see Brechin magistrates reports) and beinh humble and contrite (see CG and Swally’s remarks later todays)……….

Now the MSM I am sure will all once they realise they were wrong – apologise and not be bitter (see their Dundee Utd match report)………..

Whae’s like us – not many countries that’s for sure!

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miki67Posted on2:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


The name for nearly all journalists in Scotland is no longer ‘journalists’ or the cuddly milkmaidish ‘churnalists’, but more accurately : presstitutes.

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ExiledCeltPosted on2:17 am - Aug 30, 2012


I believe tonight’s attendance of just under 52,000 was a world record attendance for a CL qualifier between a Scottish and Swedish club for teams that Henrik Larsson played for…….

Or is that just being petty and stupid about world records…………..

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john clarkePosted on2:41 am - Aug 30, 2012


pantoon maloo says:
August 29, 2012 at 17:15
‘I was at the open meeting where I’m pretty sure Peter Lawell himself confirmed it was a joint sponsorship.’

—–
Thanks for that, pantoon m. Happy to be put right.

Interesting post from Paulsatim (at 17.28 yesterday) about Tennent’s being in discussions about continuing with their deal with the 3rd div club! They might well want a reduction in what they pay given the less significant profile of the 3rd Div.

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RayCharlezPosted on2:53 am - Aug 30, 2012


On the Broadfoot situation, perhaps he asked for, and was granted, a trial period with his new employer on the proviso that he could still reject the TUPE offer if he found that the new job situation didn’t suit him.

This may sound far fetched but I believe there are some grounds to believe this scenario is plausible based on my limited dealings with employment law.

When I was being made redundant some years ago I was also offered the chance to transfer to another business within the company. I was told if I didn’t settle into the job after three months they would honour my right to take the initial redundancy deal on offer.

A TUPE arrangement is obviously different.

However, from what I have read, “Your rights are protected under regulations known as TUPE – Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) – under which all of your existing rights, including contractual rights and redundancy protection, are unchanged.”

So, if I could do a trial period at another business under a “normal” redundancy, is it not possible Broadfoot has agreed a similar deal with Sevco?

As always, I may well be wrong.

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Humble PiePosted on3:02 am - Aug 30, 2012


Thought of a great tagline for this blog.

TSFM – We Read The Record and Listen to Superscoreboard So You Don’t Have To !

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ExiledCeltPosted on3:21 am - Aug 30, 2012


RayCharles says:

August 30, 2012 at 02:53

Part of the issue for me has been the confusion over the pl;ayer registrations – CG was either ignorant of the TUPE laws and thought he had bought them along with history and assets – now to get around 15 million quid worth of players plus 2.5 million SPL money plus Ibrox and Murray Park (not yet renamed Moses or Davie Cooper Park note!) means D&P were really helping in the asset stripping!

Since Naismith said no offer or contact was made from CG’s group to them, it would seem the regular redeundancy and takeover HR matters never took place.

Why he thinks they became his property we will never know.

However we shoudl know who they were registered to with the SFA – starting with the Brechin game and each game since – who playing for Sevco at Brechin and T’Rangers after name change was registered to whom with the SFA.

This is an important piece of the puzzle – only with this will we know the FULL extent of the cheating our football bodies (and probably their politician backers) have thought they could hide from us………

We await the clarity……….

View Comment

RayCharlezPosted on3:30 am - Aug 30, 2012


On another point, and I am probably more wrong than usual with this one, I believe the fact Celtic have just been handed a Champions League dowry of £10m+ is a pernicious and corrupting influence in our national game.

RFC(IA) effectively committed hari-kari chasing the pot of gold at the end of the Champions League rainbow.

The Champions League cash is like “precious” in Lord of the Rings.

(David Murray is Lord Sauron and Craig Whyte is Gollum, by the way)

The allure is too great.

I would like to see Scottish football administered in such a way that a chunk of the European prize money earned by our national representatives is filtered throughout the whole game.

I just feel the pursuit of “precious” has helped to detach Celtic and Rangers from the rest of the Scottish football habitat.

This was not a good thing and is proving unhealthy for our game.

View Comment

RayCharlezPosted on3:36 am - Aug 30, 2012


The Invisible Line says:
August 30, 2012 at 03:21

We will only get clarity, I fear, in the distant future when dusty old documents will be pored over by “internet bampots” who will be ignored by the media as it is “old news” and everyone has moved on.

——
On another point, and I am probably more wrong than usual with this one, I believe the fact Celtic have just been handed a Champions League dowry of £10m+ is a pernicious and corrupting influence in our national game.

RFC(IA) effectively committed hari-kari chasing the pot of gold at the end of the Champions League rainbow.

The Champions League cash is like “precious” in Lord of the Rings.
(David Murray is Lord Sauron and Craig Whyte is Gollum, by the way)
The allure is too great.

I would like to see Scottish football administered in such a way that a slice of the European prize money earned by our national representatives is filtered throughout the whole game.
I just feel the pursuit of “precious” has helped to detach Celtic and Rangers from the rest of the Scottish football habitat.

This was never a good thing and is proving unhealthy for our game.

View Comment

stunneyPosted on5:30 am - Aug 30, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/ally-mccoist-considers-buying-stake-in-rangers-as-club-announces-kirk-broadfoot-s-departure-1-2495318

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stunneyPosted on5:31 am - Aug 30, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts-winger-david-templeton-linked-with-rangers-move-1-2495593

View Comment

stunneyPosted on5:36 am - Aug 30, 2012


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/rangers-v-falkirk-templeton-on-mccoists-wanted-list.18721850

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on6:37 am - Aug 30, 2012


T&P says:
August 29, 2012 at 20:50

can i just add, as an aberdeen fan, how much easier it is enjoying and yes, hoping, that Celtic do well tonight in europe without Rangers being involved. There is without doubt a good and harmonious feel to scottish football without you-know-who. Long may it continue.
————-

To be honest T&P, as a Glaswegian, it’s a lot less complicated with just one big team from Glasgow. And after everything that’s happened the right team is deservedly enjoying the fruits of success, success achieved the correct way. The Celts are not my team but I biked over to Helsingborg last week and enjoyed seeing the fans and sensing the atmosphere. One very worried Celtic fan I met on the seafront actually asked about the result: I said that a Celtic away win was on the cards. That was too much for his angst to even consider, so he said a 2-1 defeat “Wull dae me’! In the event, it’s been a triumph for Celtic and Scottish football – especially so, because of UEFA’s insistence on the champions of some countries being refused automatic entry and degraded to qualifying rounds. 

Someone posted a few pages ago that the past year had caused him to fall out of love with football. For me lt’s been the opposite. I lost hope a very long time ago, but the events of the past months have had an oddly inspirational effect. The grassroots groundswell for justice and fairplay has brought all true sports fans together, regardless of team colours or loyalty. The end of the ‘Old Firm’ is a bonus. I never liked the tribal division it brought to Glasgow. If the death of one club – and its toxic assets – is what it takes to bring normality to the city then it will have been a small price to pay.

View Comment

Lord WobblyPosted on7:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


from The Herald (thanks Stunney)

‘David Templeton, the 23-year-old Hearts winger,
is believed to be another the Rangers manager would like, having released defender Kirk Broadfoot from his contract.’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is that McCoist’s tactical genius coming to the fore?

View Comment

Night TerrorPosted on7:38 am - Aug 30, 2012


miki67 says:
August 30, 2012 at 02:08

The name for nearly all journalists in Scotland is no longer ‘journalists’ or the cuddly milkmaidish ‘churnalists’, but more accurately : presstitutes.

Not a fan of all of your qork, miki, but that is excellent. And brief!

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Night TerrorPosted on7:44 am - Aug 30, 2012


There’s been quite a few comments recently, notably from the ever perceptive Auldheid, that Champions League money has a distorting effect on Scottish football and should be distributed throughout our game.

I’ve not seen any argument to the contrary – am I to assume general agreement on this point as a result?

View Comment

StanblackPosted on7:45 am - Aug 30, 2012


night terror, no, live within your means otherwise you will end up like sevco.

View Comment

Night TerrorPosted on7:48 am - Aug 30, 2012


@stanblack
Not sure about your point – surely CL money becomes the means of whoever receives it?

That can apply to one recipient or 42.

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ParmaHamsterPosted on7:50 am - Aug 30, 2012


”David Templeton, the 23-year-old Hearts winger, is believed to be another the Rangers manager would like, having released defender Kirk Broadfoot from his contract.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As if Hearts would sell them anyone while they’re still waiting on their money from the Lee Wallace transfer….or is Ally hoping that Vlad won’t be paying attention?

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stevensanphPosted on8:29 am - Aug 30, 2012


Templeton to TSF? Ok, so what bad news is due to be announced today….?

Ally McCoist disciplinary hearing anyone?

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stunneyPosted on8:35 am - Aug 30, 2012


His Walterhood:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/19/rangers-champions-league-place-spl

Hahahahahahahaha.

GIRUY, Your Cardiganship.

View Comment

rantinrobinPosted on8:55 am - Aug 30, 2012


Congratulations to Celtic Football Club.Good for our game, good for our co-efficient and a veritable two fingers to the ridiculous and contemptuous scaremongering from those figures, Cardigan,Doncaster,Regan et al who prophesised Armageddon for our game.

Celtic turned up,they did it and with a positive emphasis on the here and now,so can other Scottish teams.

Level playing field and sound administration in our game is all that is required.

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on8:56 am - Aug 30, 2012


Night Terror says:
August 30, 2012 at 07:44
 2 2 Rate This
There’s been quite a few comments recently, notably from the ever perceptive Auldheid, that Champions League money has a distorting effect on Scottish football and should be distributed throughout our game.

I’ve not seen any argument to the contrary – am I to assume general agreement on this point as a result?
—————-

It’s difficult to disagree that the riches of the CL distort all of European football. The distribution is lop-sided but it’s not really corrupt. It’s Blatter’s failed dream of a European league by other means. As I see it, the cash prizes involved ensured that he got clubs to accept the league format. I miss the the old 3-cup format myself, especially the Cup Winner’s Cup.

But why it’s not discussed here is perhaps because it could lead to the cul de sac of an off-topic discussion. Apart from that, today’s the day to congratulate the only Scottish team to have kept Scotland’s profile on the Euro map and to hope that Hearts and Motherwell give us something cheer about too.

View Comment

ThereekPosted on8:56 am - Aug 30, 2012


Danish Pastry says:
August 30, 2012 at 06:37
19 0 i
Rate This
T&P says:
August 29, 2012 at 20:50

can i just add, as an aberdeen fan, how much easier it is enjoying and yes, hoping, that Celtic do well tonight in europe without Rangers being involved. There is without doubt a good and harmonious feel to scottish football without you-know-who. Long may it continue.
————-

To be honest T&P, as a Glaswegian, it’s a lot less complicated with just one big team from Glasgow. And after everything that’s happened the right team is deservedly enjoying the fruits of success, success achieved the correct way. The Celts are not my team but I biked over to Helsingborg last week and enjoyed seeing the fans and sensing the atmosphere. One very worried Celtic fan I met on the seafront actually asked about the result: I said that a Celtic away win was on the cards. That was too much for his angst to even consider, so he said a 2-1 defeat “Wull dae me’! In the event, it’s been a triumph for Celtic and Scottish football – especially so, because of UEFA’s insistence on the champions of some countries being refused automatic entry and degraded to qualifying rounds.

Someone posted a few pages ago that the past year had caused him to fall out of love with football. For me lt’s been the opposite. I lost hope a very long time ago, but the events of the past months have had an oddly inspirational effect. The grassroots groundswell for justice and fairplay has brought all true sports fans together, regardless of team colours or loyalty. The end of the ‘Old Firm’ is a bonus. I never liked the tribal division it brought to Glasgow. If the death of one club – and its toxic assets – is what it takes to bring normality to the city then it will have been a small price to pay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What an invigorating and inspirational post from Danish. He shows us all how we can move on in Scottish football.

I was at CP last night and lapped up every moment of the excitement and bedlam. I was so proud to be a small part of my great club. When making my way home I couldn’t help but think that the result may also reflect well on the rest of Scottish football. It tells those outside our border that not everything is done badly or with dubious motivation. There must be something positive in that league for a member club to get into the Champions League.

Thanks also to T&P and other non Celts for their support last night. It feels great to be a Celt this morning but I hope that some non Celts feel good too.

View Comment

jockybhoyPosted on9:01 am - Aug 30, 2012


Night Terror says: August 30, 2012 at 07:44

“Champions League money has a distorting effect on Scottish football and should be distributed throughout our game. I’ve not seen any argument to the contrary – am I to assume general agreement on this point as a result?”

Not sure you can take silence as agreement NT.

Here’s one argument: by taking away Champions’ League money from the team that earned it (whoever that may be) you will weaken that team for future campaigns in Europe thus contributing to a spiral of less qualifications, less relevance, more qualifying rounds etc.

View Comment

jockybhoyPosted on9:03 am - Aug 30, 2012


Another argument might be meritocracy.

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:04 am - Aug 30, 2012


The Metro page 17
lifted from a USTA phone app:

(Andy) Murray loves soccer – he was once offered to play for the minor league ream the GlasgowRangers

😀

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jockybhoyPosted on9:05 am - Aug 30, 2012


How about the danger that teams might think the team lying second may progress further in Europe and allow that team to take the European place on the basis the other teams may profit more by that team progressing further?

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


*team – pre-coffee fingers 🙁

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Charlie BrownPosted on9:19 am - Aug 30, 2012


jocky bhoy says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:01

Jocky – of course it would be preferable if there was a UEFA wide solution to the problem however it is further complicated by the fact that in the bigger nations and richer leagues that have very lucrative television deals the money earned from UEFA competitions has less of a distorting effect than it does in say Scotland or Croatia to give just 2 examples where the massive input of Champions League money effectively locks in the domination of those countries football by the 1 or 2 clubs who participate. Monopolistic domination has long term negative impact on the whole nations football and leads to a spiral of decline as we have seen in Scotland since the mid-1980’s until today where both club and national teams performances have declined. The fact that Celtic & Rangers have to use so many foreign players just to qualify for the Group stages isn’t a success – it only further highlights our collective failures and masks the real problem. We need to create Scottish players good enough for that platform. Part of that is by giving them the opportunities to begin with, and to be able to progress through to International & Champions League level. Now of course it is great to see Forrest & Watt & Mulgrew doing great for Celtic but from a National perspective I’d rather see other Scottish players in the positions that Samaras, Hooper, Izaguirre, Wanyama etc are currently playing for Celtic but that’s taking the debate of on another tangent – still important and linked to the overall problem but a tangent none the less.

There is of course a middle way and that is to split the money – rather than 100% retained by the participant or 100% shared throughout the leagues instead you take a split between retained & shared ie 70 / 30 or 60 / 40 or 50 / 50 or whatever is decided as equitable to provide a balance between financial reward for the team that qualifies but also a shared portion to lessen the distorting effects and provide a financial boost to the league overall. This would apply to all UEFA payments received regardless of Champions League or Europa League or clubs involved.

I’d also like it if the UEFA monies were used and spent In Scotland for the benefit of Scottish football and instead of it flowing immmediately back out into the pockets of foreign clubs, players & agents it was spent in Scotland for the benefit of Scottish clubs and helping to stimulate the internal transfer market so that money can flow down through and around the clubs. This financial boost might help improve clubs financial positions so we are collectively better able to keep the better Scottish players in Scotland for longer, which i reckon would make our football a more attractive proposition.

View Comment

Night TerrorPosted on9:20 am - Aug 30, 2012


jocky bhoy says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:01

Night Terror says: August 30, 2012 at 07:44

“Champions League money has a distorting effect on Scottish football and should be distributed throughout our game. I’ve not seen any argument to the contrary – am I to assume general agreement on this point as a result?”

Here’s one argument: by taking away Champions’ League money from the team that earned it (whoever that may be) you will weaken that team for future campaigns in Europe thus contributing to a spiral of less qualifications, less relevance, more qualifying rounds etc.

And that may be the nub of it, jb.

Are the two positions irreconcilable?

Is Scottish football there to provide a platform that propels our best teams to try to compete in Europe every year, or is it to provide the healthiest sustainable competition possible so that the national game benefits in the long term?

View Comment

tomtomPosted on9:23 am - Aug 30, 2012


Discussing a fairer disbursement of CL monies is like talking about immortality. It’s never going to happen and wastes valuable time and effort that could and should be focussed elsewhere.

A more salient point would be Sevco’s apparent desire to sign (presumably for a fee that will have to be paid up front) Templeton whilst at the same time letting Broadfoot go for free. Was Broadfoot on such a fantastic salary that they couldn’t afford to keep him. If so, what’s in it for him. He might be a fan but he’s also a professional and will want what’s due to him. One thing is for sure, whatever wage he was on at Ibrox will not be offered anywhere else. His agent will have another club lined up but the whole thing, on the face of it, doesn’t make sense.

What’s in it for Templeton? A talent certainly but does he really want to be slugging it out in the 3rd division. Or is this just an Irvine plant to take away from events elsewhere?

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Night TerrorPosted on9:27 am - Aug 30, 2012


tomtom says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:23

Discussing a fairer disbursement of CL monies is like talking about immortality. It’s never going to happen and wastes valuable time and effort that could and should be focussed elsewhere.

How dare you.

I recall a year ago many said talking about Rangers going bust or having to play at a lower level was never going to happen.

Why do you think it’s never going to happen? Why do you think it should or should not happen.

As for your attempt at discussing Templeton – yawn – it’s never going to happen.

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pantoon malooPosted on9:32 am - Aug 30, 2012


john clarke says:
August 30, 2012 at 02:41

I would hope that as part of the tennents sponsorship discussion Celtic can walk away and start afresh.

In my view to continue this “joint” arrangement only serves to legitimise the lie that the brand new 3rd division club are the same as the one we originally entered into the deal with.

Dont mean to go on about it but I would not be pleased to find we were involved in any way with the new club.

P.S. Brilliant night at Paradise, well done Celtic.

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tomtomPosted on9:38 am - Aug 30, 2012


Night Terror says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:27

tomtom says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:23

Discussing a fairer disbursement of CL monies is like talking about immortality. It’s never going to happen and wastes valuable time and effort that could and should be focussed elsewhere.

How dare you.

I recall a year ago many said talking about Rangers going bust or having to play at a lower level was never going to happen.

Why do you think it’s never going to happen? Why do you think it should or should not happen.

As for your attempt at discussing Templeton – yawn – it’s never going to happen.

—————————————————————-

Now that was funny 😀

View Comment

AngusPosted on9:43 am - Aug 30, 2012


RayCharles says:
August 30, 2012 at 02:53

On the Broadfoot situation, perhaps he asked for, and was granted, a trial period with his new employer on the proviso that he could still reject the TUPE offer if he found that the new job situation didn’t suit him.
——–
]

A good conjecture, Ray.

Sally’s comment in the media has to make you wonder what’s going on there – perhaps a little more transparency would be useful to everyone. We know Sally likes transparency, after all.

Sally: “Kirk has agreed with [chief executive] Charles [Green] and the club that his contract will be made null and void and he will be free to leave the club from today or tomorrow.”

You wonder why a club which evidently needs cash is simply agreeing to cancel a player’s contract.

Under employment law, an Employment Rights Act 1996 s.138 “trial period” can be agreed. This is usually 4 weeks, but it has been successfully argued that an extended “common law” period is allowed. This would particularly be the case in football, where the “job” is not so much of a day-to-day repetition and 4 weeks would be insufficient to see whether you want the new job.

I wonder if any more will decide to invoke whatever trial period clause is in whatever form of new contract they have?

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Danish PastryPosted on9:48 am - Aug 30, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:19
 2 0 Rate This
jocky bhoy says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:01
——–

Great post Charlie, albeit on a tangent 🙂

Definitely stuff for a future guest blog. Although I can see some folks wondering why the topic comes up the day after Celtic qualify for the CL for the first time in four years. They’ve earned their success fair and square. It also makes you wonder whether the topic would have been raised if it was another Glasgow team that had qualified.

I’m a bit pf a charity-begins-at-home type, and would like to see a more even distribution of money across the Scottish leagues as a first step.

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The Sundance KidPosted on9:49 am - Aug 30, 2012


Serious question: is it good for Scottish football that one club (Celtic) have tens of millions guaranteed from the Champions’ League?

Surely this just increases the gap between them and everyone else? The domestic competitions will be even more dominated by Celtic now. Apart from the slight coefficient benefit to a few SPL clubs like Motherwell and Dundee Utd, surely this is bad for every other Scottish club?

Just trying to get my head round why last night’s result is supposedly good for Scottish football.

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WOTTPIPosted on9:55 am - Aug 30, 2012


Night Terror says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:20
jocky bhoy says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:01

Funnily enough the issue of CL cash was on my mind too last night.

As Danish Pastry says it really all comes down to wanting a European League.
A parallel can also be drawn with the SPL.

The Administrators and top clubs both here and abroad would like nothing better than to have a closed shop US type franchise operation. (Make no mistake if that had been in place Rangers (IL) would have been straight back in). However given that it is the World’s game, there is an underlying ethos that teams should be able to progress through league systems if they are successful. It may even be in the FIFA constitution rules etc but I don’t have time to have a look.

Therefore rather than bite the bullet and say while we agree with the ideal of equal participation for all, the practicalities are that it doesn’t really work as a club the size of , lets say Grenta, could never hope to sit at the same table as Barcelona, the Milans etc

Therefore the European cash sytem tends to be self fulfilling in that the same teams will appear and be successful year after year in the CL and Europa Cup. (A nice little research project for someone.)

As has been pointed out, Celtic making the group stages blows every other cluib in Scotland out of the water. Even if they don’t do well in the group stages, regardless of the huge revenue raising support they have, the CL cash allows them, in combination with a half decent manager and tactics, to deploy financial muscle in the domestic league thus ensuring that at the very least they get a sniff at Europe in future years.

Once you are in an exclusive club it is a lot easier to remain a member as you gain the benefits of being a club member.

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rantinrobinPosted on9:56 am - Aug 30, 2012


As a further point, Stunney’s production of the Walter Smith sentiment that he envisaged Scottish teams struggling to gain CL entry perhaps reflected more on his own misgivings and insecurities about delivering in Europe. He was, lets face it, never the most adventurous tactician in CL games- an understatement to say the least.

The point I make is that whilst the team F.K.A Rangers had the ,ahem, Murray millions it did not have that collective energy and colour.You cannot buy that energy,you have to earn it through a sense of identity.

I think that energy is gathering apace in a lot of Scottish clubs. It is not a sentiment derived from an innate sense of superiority but rather from a group of people ‘making’ something new and fresh.For example Motherwell is blossoming as a club, and DUFC are showing that good young Scottish players can strive for greater things.

So please MSM, SPL and SFA ,no more tired arguments about money buying sporting success,there is something more about football on a great night when your team does well and I defy anybody to define it.

That indefinable feeling is why we love the game.

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BrendaPosted on10:07 am - Aug 30, 2012


Are chuck and ally up for their gentle slap on the wrist today? Was sure it was today but not a peep in msm??? Now there’s a surprise! well done Celtic, good luck to Hearts, Motherwell and Falkirk tonight 🙂

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Charlie BrownPosted on10:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


Danish Pastry says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:48

DP just for the record i was debating the same issues last year on the RTC blog even though Rangers had crashed out to Malmo & Maribor as well as all our other clubs being eliminated although Celtic of course were given a UEFA reprieve after FC Sion’s follies.

View Comment

piston brokePosted on10:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


smallteaser says:

August 29, 2012 at 23:26

The transfer window was shut when D & P took over on February 14th therefore none could be sold. Freed yes, sold no. After the season finished, the “done deal” to CG included the players, supposedly, with the money going to CG, apparently.

————————————————————————————————-

I don’t know, I believe business can be conducted outwith the window but the transfers only concluded during the window. So there should have been nothing to stop D&P phoning Southampton, say, and asking if they were interested in a 800k deal for Mr Davies, say. 400 now and 400 later as it were.

Also, from D&Pees Progress Report.

4.4
As advised in the Proposals report, the Joint Administrators must perform their functions with the purpose of achieving one of the following hierarchical objectives:

-Rescuing the Company as a going concern; or

-Achieving a better result for the Company‟s creditors as a whole than would be likely if the Company were wound up (without first being in Administration); or

-Realising property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors.

£5.5 million received, possibly, from one C Low Green.

How does this equate to a better result for creditors when the transfer window kicks in weeks after the sale and, at least, £10 million of transfer fees refuse to TUPE over.

And this also makes no allowance for the value of the property portfolio.

Strange days indeed but people are strange. Thankfully no blood on the streets up to my ankle.

Who started the Doors quotes?

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tomtomPosted on10:18 am - Aug 30, 2012


The cancelling of Broadfoot’s contract with less than 48 hours of the transfer window open is what puzzles me. Why not try and get some money for him and if unsuccessful then give him a free.

There’s something not right with this. Coupled with the news now emerging that McCoist hasn’t really bought into the dream but he is “definitely thinking about it” you wonder what is going on behind the scenes.

I have a sneaking feeling that Chuck is even more devious that Whyte. Time will tell.

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Night TerrorPosted on10:28 am - Aug 30, 2012


If Broadfoot is on the £10k per week he is meant to be on, it’s hardly surprising Rangers have found it difficult to sell him. Even loaning him out somewhere would result in them paying a % of his wages.

Hardly surprising his contract has been canceled – possibly with a bit of cash to Broadfoot to soften the blow unless he’s fallen for “A true Rangers fan with the club’s interests at heart would rip up their overly generous contract for the sake of the club. Kirk – tell me – are you a true Rangers fan?”

View Comment

Night TerrorPosted on10:29 am - Aug 30, 2012


Or it could all be a big conspiracy.

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Charlie BrownPosted on10:29 am - Aug 30, 2012


Offtopic but can anybody help explain to me how any of these stories in todays MSM (assuming they are true?) benefit Scottish football?

> Terry Butcher insists Arsenal link-up is Gunner be great for Inverness THE loan partnership with Arsenal will see Inverness take youth stars from the Emirates on loan (Daily Record)

> Neil Lennon is set to use the Champions League as the lure for a sensational bid to bring Italian superstar Alessandro del Piero to Celtic. (Daily Mail)

> ALLY McCOIST will pull out all the stops in a bid to land David Templeton before the transfer window slams shut. The Hearts star tops a wish list of EIGHT players the Rangers boss hopes to secure before tomorrow night’s 11pm deadline. Jambos’ teenage right-back Callum Paterson is also believed to be on the Ibrox radar.

==========================================================================

I can understand the superficial short term benefits or appeal for the clubs involved but surely

> ICT are a team perfect for developing young Scottish talent not English Premier League / Foreign talent?

> Surely it is better if Celtic’s own talents who helped qualify for the Champions League Group stages don’t then have their opportunities to develop further hindered by an aging veteran taking their place in the team?

> How and why do Rangers need EIGHT players for the Fourth Division? And what benefit is it if 2 of Scottish more promising prospects are taken from playing in the SPL & UEFA competitions with the prospect of further career and international advancement to instead go play in the bottom tier of Scottish football against the journeymen of Berwick & East Strilingshire etc. No disrespect to those clubs or their players but it’s not for the betterment of the players who go from a higher level down to that level.

Such short-termist thinking is at the route of our footballing problems.

View Comment

smallteaserPosted on10:30 am - Aug 30, 2012


The Sundance Kid says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:49

Serious question: is it good for Scottish football that one club (Celtic) have tens of millions guaranteed from the Champions’ League?

Surely this just increases the gap between them and everyone else? The domestic competitions will be even more dominated by Celtic now. Apart from the slight coefficient benefit to a few SPL clubs like Motherwell and Dundee Utd, surely this is bad for every other Scottish club?

Just trying to get my head round why last night’s result is supposedly good for Scottish football.
========================================================================
All sound a little parochial for something called the European Champions League.
Unless the same rules applied throughout Europe then you are diminishing the chance sof ever gaining entry if price money is split.
The richer nations clubs will only get bigger while the smaller nations will disappear as money is split between all clubs.
Is the incentive in winning the league, getting a trophy or getting the entry to another competition and the rewards that go with it.
There are a lot of clubs already dependent on Celtic & The Rangers in Scotland presently, as has been seen recently, without them receiving money for nothing.
Before you know it Scottish clubs would budget for Celtic reaching the group stages every year!!
If they didn’t they would get the blame for killing Scottish football.
As supposedly no other club can win the SPL and no other club would have a chance of advancing in Europe, maybe the league would be fixed to ensure Celtic win the SPL every season!!
Does that sound good for Scottish football?

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on10:31 am - Aug 30, 2012


Charlie Brown says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:08
 1 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
August 30, 2012 at 09:48

DP just for the record i was debating the same issues last year on the RTC blog even though Rangers had crashed out to Malmo & Maribor as well as all our other clubs being eliminated although Celtic of course were given a UEFA reprieve after FC Sion’s follies.
—————

Fair enough Charlie, I remember it being aired as part of the wider discussion and it’s a really important topic as you (and WOTTPI) have described so well above. That’s why a guest blog about CL monies, but perhaps also including the current SPL and SFL distribution setup, would be good. It could then get it’s own comment thread.

I think my biggest gripe with the CL is that it tries to exclude real national champions to make way for richer 2nd to 4th-placed clubs. A bit of re-naming by UEFA would be in order. I bet Blatter would love to re-brand it the ‘Europa League’.

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Charlie BrownPosted on10:32 am - Aug 30, 2012


DoH! ‘root’ not ‘route’ 🙁

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enfakidPosted on10:36 am - Aug 30, 2012


Therefore the European cash sytem tends to be self fulfilling in that the same teams will appear and be successful year after year in the CL and Europa Cup. (A nice little research project for someone.)

As has been pointed out, Celtic making the group stages blows every other cluib in Scotland out of the water. Even if they don’t do well in the group stages, regardless of the huge revenue raising support they have, the CL cash allows them, in combination with a half decent manager and tactics, to deploy financial muscle in the domestic league thus ensuring that at the very least they get a sniff at Europe in future years.

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Yes and this is the problem. Why should every other SPL club turn up week in, week out to effectively propell Celtic into the riches of the CL? It has been widely reported that Celtic will benefit by circa 12m by simply participating in the CL. Surely they can give some of this back to the league that enables them to participate? After all Celtic are nothing without competition, and competition must be allowed to grow and thrive. Whether it be more equitable share of home SPL games, TV money, or a share of CL revenue, Celtic have to address this or it could be 3 years of Celtic raking in the money and everyone else starves.

Is that good for Scottish football?

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smallteaserPosted on10:37 am - Aug 30, 2012


piston broke says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:08

The transfer window was shut when D & P took over on February 14th therefore none could be sold. Freed yes, sold no. After the season finished, the “done deal” to CG included the players, supposedly, with the money going to CG, apparently.

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I don’t know, I believe business can be conducted outwith the window but the transfers only concluded during the window. So there should have been nothing to stop D&P phoning Southampton, say, and asking if they were interested in a 800k deal for Mr Davies, say. 400 now and 400 later as it were.
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Why would any team want to do that when there was a very good chance that the players would be available for free?
Why would anyone pay up front for a player they could not play and who could be injured before the transfer would go through? Look at the stopper Celtic were signing until he done his cruciate.
Why would the players want to sign a contract when their agent would tell them they could go for free and negotiate a better rate.
The transfer is not down to D & D alone, there is a player decision on this.

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Night TerrorPosted on10:39 am - Aug 30, 2012


smallteaser says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:30

There are a lot of clubs already dependent on Celtic & The Rangers in Scotland presently, as has been seen recently, without them receiving money for nothing.

Have you been paying attention recently? Were you one of those that argued Rangers must be saved for teh sake of Scottish football and kept in the SPL at all costs?

Before you know it Scottish clubs would budget for Celtic reaching the group stages every year!!
If they didn’t they would get the blame for killing Scottish football.
As supposedly no other club can win the SPL and no other club would have a chance of advancing in Europe, maybe the league would be fixed to ensure Celtic win the SPL every season!!
Does that sound good for Scottish football?

That sounds like a lot of extremely tenuous supposition to me.

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paulmacPosted on10:47 am - Aug 30, 2012


Is Templeton out of contract?

If not….Has Ally asked for permission to speak to the player? If not….will he be hauled up before the SFA for ‘TAPPING UP’?

Or will Fergus McCann remain the only person in Scottish to be charged by the SFA for tapping up and fined £100k?

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layman00Posted on10:48 am - Aug 30, 2012


The reports in the press about the Broadfoot would suggest to me that Ally has been told if he wants more players in he has to free up wages. I’m sure Broadfoot like Alexander were one of the players who received crazy over valued contract extensions.

There is obviously no great market interest in Broadfoot and they don’t have very little time left to bring in more players.

A random report some months ago that Broadfoot was the only Rangers player that attended Kyle Laffertys wedding always sticks in my mind. Made me wonder if like Lafferty, Broadfoot had became a bit of an outcast. Problem was nobody was interested in him so Ally was stuck with him. Knowing that Broadfoot was always going to Tupe over and retain a highly lucrative contract he would’ve been mad not to.

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smallteaserPosted on10:49 am - Aug 30, 2012


enfakid says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:36

Yes and this is the problem. Why should every other SPL club turn up week in, week out to effectively propell Celtic into the riches of the CL? It has been widely reported that Celtic will benefit by circa 12m by simply participating in the CL. Surely they can give some of this back to the league that enables them to participate? After all Celtic are nothing without competition, and competition must be allowed to grow and thrive. Whether it be more equitable share of home SPL games, TV money, or a share of CL revenue, Celtic have to address this or it could be 3 years of Celtic raking in the money and everyone else starves.

Is that good for Scottish football?
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Throwing money at other clubs does not create competition.
Kilmarnock would have had one of their most successful seasons last year both in honours and in money, what did they do? They cut Kenny Shiels budget and paid off some debt.
This did not add to the competition for Celtic it reduced it, Dean Shiels signing for a 3rd division club proves this.
“Celtic are nothing without competition”, it cannot be helped that the only league Celtic are allowed to play in is the SPL, if they had access to another league I am sure they would leave. (Cue the ThumbsDown).
They also do not owe Scottish football for the right to play in Europe, they earned it, in a competitve league or not. They can only beat who they were up against.
What makes SFL3 competitive when The Rangers are fielding SPL and international players? I don’t know but the SFL3 clubs appear to be making a fist of it!!
Splitting Champions league money among other clubs will ensure that there is 42 clubs in Scotlands top league, maybe thats insustainable and needs to be dropped to 30. Maybe those 30 would get more of a cut of sponsors and fans money.
Before anyone asks, No I don’t see The Rangers being one of those 30 clubs next season.!!

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timtimPosted on10:51 am - Aug 30, 2012


I punched the roof when the 2nd goal went in last night, advancing to the next round was
more than I could have hoped for but we did it . Results like this dont happen that often its a bit like winning the cup itself but to be fair Dundee did go down to 10 men.
As for Celtic ,I thought the fans were fantastic ,a real 12th man for the club and a credit to the Scottish nation

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enfakidPosted on10:54 am - Aug 30, 2012


A random report some months ago that Broadfoot was the only Rangers player that attended Kyle Laffertys wedding always sticks in my mind. Made me wonder if like Lafferty, Broadfoot had became a bit of an outcast. Problem was nobody was interested in him so Ally was stuck with him. Knowing that Broadfoot was always going to Tupe over and retain a highly lucrative contract he would’ve been mad not to.

That sounds like a lot of extremely tenuous supposition to me.

Would you want any of them at your wedding?

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smallteaserPosted on10:59 am - Aug 30, 2012


Night Terror says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:39

There are a lot of clubs already dependent on Celtic & The Rangers in Scotland presently, as has been seen recently, without them receiving money for nothing.

Have you been paying attention recently? Were you one of those that argued Rangers must be saved for teh sake of Scottish football and kept in the SPL at all costs?
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I believe I have been paying attention.
A new TV deal was signed with The Rangers having 15 games televised for the next 5? years.
Without this there was a very good chance that a) there would have been a sharp reduction in money from the contract or b) no contract at all.
Therefore the clubs in Scotland are still dependent on Celtic AND The Rangers.

I am not saying that a new TV deal could maybe have been brokered but not in time for this season.

I was one of those who argued that The Rangers should not be in any league, I am one of those who has no season ticket for this first time in 17 years this season.
I did manage to see my second game of the season at Celtic Park last night and hopefully will be able to see at least another 3 this season.
All games not under the auspices of the SFA I will pay money for, anything else I will miss.

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enfakidPosted on11:01 am - Aug 30, 2012


Throwing money at other clubs does not create competition.

Of course it creates competition, why do you think other sports have wage caps and recruitment policies to try and balance out the obvious disparity between teams?

If the SPL continues as it is with Celtic allowed to totally dominate, in financial terms, then there will be no competition.

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paulmacPosted on11:07 am - Aug 30, 2012


enfakid says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:36
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I can understand why it seems a reasonable idea for Celtic to donate a portion of the CL money they receive…

However I believe it only fair that EVERY Scottish club who participates in European competitions donates to Scottish football the money they earn from Europe..

The question is what would be fair a percentage or a ceiling amount?

I would say the amount that is donated comes from the first qualifying round of the CL and the Europa…say 10% minus costs…after all that is what they qualified for….after that what they earn they keep.

A very socialist approach to the good of Scottish football…

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smallteaserPosted on11:07 am - Aug 30, 2012


enfakid says:
August 30, 2012 at 11:01

Throwing money at other clubs does not create competition.

Of course it creates competition, why do you think other sports have wage caps and recruitment policies to try and balance out the obvious disparity between teams?

If the SPL continues as it is with Celtic allowed to totally dominate, in financial terms, then there will be no competition.
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Following that logic the only club without competition in Scotland is Celtic.
All other clubs in each individual league will operate, give or take , on comparable budgets.
Have Celtic now to create a fund for their own competition??

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JustinianPosted on11:08 am - Aug 30, 2012


tomtom says:
August 30, 2012 at 10:18

I have a sneaking feeling that Chuck is even more devious that Whyte. Time will tell.
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It will indeed, TT. No evidence to base this upon as yet but my instinct is that when the layers commence being peeled away then Mr Charles’ ‘chancer’ factor will be nudging the upper limit of 10 and will have the pop-eyed one gasping in admiration and respect.

Tears before teatime san doute…. or should that be translated into the Yorkshire – ‘Trooble ahead for t’Rangers FC oop Mill.’

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Hoopy 7Posted on11:10 am - Aug 30, 2012


Good Morning.
Somewhat perturbed by the calls for CL money to be distributed, apart from the fact that it appears well off topic, strange that it raises its head at this time and better discussed elsewhere.

Stick to what is corrupt within the corridors of Hampden.

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