The Real Battle Begins?

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Read on the BBC text commentary that the poor attendance …

Comment on The Real Battle Begins? by Shooperb.

Read on the BBC text commentary that the poor attendance at the Kilmarnock game may be down to some sort of boycott due to them abstaining on the Sevco vote. I’m sorry, but if that’s true, then it’s pathetic. I would hope that it’s just the time of year and the lack of money to blame. The Bootleg Bears have rightly been condemned on here for this sort of petty point scoring, and I would hope that other teams are above that sort of thing.

Shooperb Also Commented

The Real Battle Begins?
smartbhoy says:
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 at 10:36

The best bit is that the ‘between 3 and 5 million’ is actually a quote from Green himself, saying that ‘INDICATIONS are that between 3 and 5 million’ WILL BE raised. So they haven’t actually collected the money, and yet the DR are claiming as fact that it’s raised this amount.

To be honest, I’ll be very surprised if we ever find out what the true amount raised was.

The Real Battle Begins?
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:54

“Over-exited”?!? Over excited! Although, with the threats to stop posting here, maybe I was right the first time!

The Real Battle Begins?
I don’t see what the problem is as regards the deletion of posts. We’ve been told many, MANY times on here by the moderators that they don’t want abuse, name calling or anything that detracts from the quality of debate.

Their aim is for this blog to carry the sort of credibility that can’t be ignored, and you set about achieving that credibility by making yourself whiter than white. I would suggest that if you can’t make a point without being unecessarily derogatory about someone, then don’t make it. There’s plenty of other forums and blogs where you can get all over-exited and incandescent.

Tommy’s post is a great example – from what I can recall it was certainly a worthwhile piece, but why spoil it? The RTC blog’s calling card was cool and un-emotional analysis of what was going on, without resorting to name-calling, and I believe that we need to get back to that.

It could just be that there’s no new blog to focus the thought process that things have started to slip…..

Recent Comments by Shooperb

It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
I’m still awaiting the outcome of the investigation into the behaviour of a certain team’s fans at Berwick a few years back….

It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One

bad capt madman
Homunculus –
where’s your Xmas spirit?
Personally I’m waiting for the MSM commenting that poor Mr King has suffered enough so the TOP, the courts and
the rest of us should all just move on.
We all know that:-
1 coals should not be raked over and
2 everyone needs a strong “rangers” else the sky might fall on our heads (is this the first Asterix reference on the

I am a pedant – I believe Vitalstatistix said:
‘The Sky May fall on our head Tomorrow – but Tomorrow never comes’
Similarly, The Rangers are coming…tomorrow.

On a slightly less pedantic note, I see Chris Sutton talking about the underselling of players, comparing VVD’s value with what it was when he left Scotland.
Unfortunately, I think we have to accept that players in Scotland will always be undervalued due to where they play, and this is much more than just sneering directly at the Scottish league from football pundits obsessed with the EPL, it’s the same the world over for countries the same size as ourselves. Unless you’re playing in the big five leagues in Europe, then your value is never fully realised until you’ve ‘proved yourself’ in one of them.  I don’t like it and I don’t think it’s fair, but it’s simply the way it is in the TV money obsessed world of football.  However, as Celtic, and a number of other clubs (notably, Hamilton Accies!), have proved, the way to claw some of that back is in the sell-on clause.
This is why, if you want to make money in Scottish football, your assets have to have resale value, allowing you to not only claw back the wages etc. that you’ve spent on that player, but make a profit into the bargain.  Might I suggest that signing 36 year olds on massive wages is probably not a progressive plan…

Who Is Conning Whom?
Must admit, I’m quite enjoying reading EB’s posts, as he’s turned the trolling up to 11 – pushing all the buttons:

  • Same Club (over and over)
  • Old Firm rivalry
  • Celtic Fans killed Rangers
  • Uefa recognising Rangers as same club
  • SFA recognising Rangers as same club

I’m just waiting for the bit about Lawell running the game here, how Scottish football was killed by relegating Rangers, the war time titles should count, and how Celtic are only on 2 in a row at the moment.

Go on EB, see if you can push it to 12!

Enough is enough
Here’s an interesting excerpt from the latest interview with EBT recipient Alex Rate on the BBC website:

McInnes’ former Rangers team-mate Giovanni van Bronckhorst has also been mentioned in connection with the Rangers job, but the Feyenoord manager said on Monday: “I have seen the media coverage but I am fully focused at Feyenoord and I will be focusing on Feyenoord for the next years.
“I obviously had a great time in Scotland with Rangers, I think one of the best times I had abroad.
“But at the moment, for me, all that counts is Feyenoord. You can never tell, maybe in the future, because it is still a club in my heart.”

I say interesting, because, if nothing else, what were the journalists basing their story on? Surely not a kite-flying exercise?

Enough is enough
Good to see the site returning to a discussion about other issues in Scottish Football, rather than the single track that it had wandered down for a while.
For the record, I would agree with the original blog writer – I don’t remember Scottish Football generally getting any credit when Celtic beat Barcelona, yet it gets walloped over the head with blame whenever Celtic lose in Europe.
Also, there appear to be a lot of posters taking the blog as some sort of attack on Celtic.  It’s not – I read it as a comment on a) Scottish Football Punditry and how inordinately lazy it is and b) a plea on how can we change things to make it more competitive.
I would say part of the problem is that we think that football outside of Scotland has stood still, and that the lack of recent success is purely down to Scottish Football going backwards, hence the fact that Hansen, Law, Baxter, McNeil etc. still get brought up as a ‘why don’t we produce these players anymore?!?’ howl.
No doubt this will be scoffed at, but in my opinion, we do still produce players of that standard.  The problem is that outside of the Scottish bubble, football has moved on enormously.  As an example, the victory over Netherlands in the ’78 World Cup is seen as some sort of high watermark – everyone’s familiar with the goals, but I would contend that’s all we’re familiar with.  I got the full match DVD a few years ago, and I was shocked at the standard.  What passed for marking was standing about 5 yards away from your opponent, and to make it worse, these supposed world class players seemed incapable of hitting a cross that wasn’t blocked by the aforementioned 5-yards-away opponent.  Rose-tinted nostalgia can be very misleading. The players you idolised years ago are probably far better in your mind than they ever were on grass.
Quite simply, the world outside is full of peak-condition, highly trained athletes, all sustained on a diet of Champions league money and sports science.  These guys have left the standard of ’78 behind years and years ago.  Meanwhile, we go round in ever decreasing circles, doing the same things we did 30/40 years ago, and wondering why they don’t work anymore.
There is a glimour of hope in the lower age groups, in that we’re starting to do things differently, and the standard of player is slowly improving relative to the outside world, but it will still take time to trickle through.  However, even outside of the technical ability of players, there is still vast improvements we could make to our game.
Gate sharing is a non-starter, and clubs like Celtic would be quite entitled to ask why they should give up half their money that their fans have paid.  I know the argument about it being for the greater good and all that, but it would be very difficult to roll back from now.  The one area where we could effect greater change is via the monies of league position and TV deals. A more equitable distribution of the money here would be a good start, as would someone who realises the value of the product they have.  BT and Sky probably can’t believe their luck that they pick up something that gives them the sort of viewing figures that the likes of Burnley, Stoke etc could only dream of for an absolute fraction of the price. To be fair, at least BT seem slightly embarrassed about it and provide broad-ranging, fairly good coverage on our football – unlike Sky’s ‘Coming up tonight, Aberdeen v Hibs – we ask … how can Rangers improve?’

Anyway, ramble over….

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