The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’ had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.
The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.
I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.
However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.
We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.
We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.
We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.
Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.
Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.
If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.
We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?
TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.
Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).
If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.
But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.
The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.
As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.
For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.
We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.
One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.
The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.
By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.
We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.
Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.
Stephen O’Donnell (@stephenodonn) says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:42
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Is there any obligation on broadcasters to use a sponsor’s name, when talking about a stadium?
Surely broadcasters would normally charge for that kind of advertising, and the BBC would avoid it altogether?
=====================================================================
Stephen, you’d have thought that broadcasters woudl do what they liked but all seem to use sponsors names – Man City’s Etihad, Arsenal’s Emirates and even for the Braidwood Motor Company Stadium!
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:33
=============================
We don’t have parades, just bevvy sessions in various pubs, singing along with various folk groups. (I hasten to add “Flower of Scotland” wasn’t heard in my local – what a dirge – but many traditional Scots songs were as well as a couple of more recent ones).
bawsman says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:28
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My understanding is that HMRC have to lodge their intention to appeal by Christmas Eve (56 days from Oct 29th), as we stand at present, I am being assured, this will be done.
The BDO/Creditors meeting early next week will be VERY illuminating as we ascertain who owes what and to whom.
We live in interesting times.
=====================
Will BDO produce a debtors list.
blu says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:46
Please yerself whether you believe what I say or not, no skin off my nose bud.
I e-mailed admin here (didn’t post) about 10 days before the result of the FTTT Report was released informing them of the date of announcement.
I said the Monday (as informed) and it should have been. It was however delayed for a day as the lawyers did not want the names on a report, the days delay was to colour it in 🙂
Admin may, or may not, confirm this. 🙂
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:33
But where are the parades celebrating nationality, and national saint on this day?
_____________________________________________________________
Well I have the saltire in my window today as you’ll see uf you pass by my hoose. 😛
He’s a good man is Tam.
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20121130/a-night-with-tam-cowan_2241384_2985029
tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 10:33
A lot of this is guesswork and assumption so bear with me.
In the majority of the cases the tax tribunal concluded that, as far as PAYE & NI were concerned, no tax liability was found. Now, if HMRC do not seek to challenge the ruling, presumably they will go after these employee’s on the basis that, as the loans did not attract any, or at the very least, little interest tax would be due on a proportion of this sum. However, if the employee’s are in possession of a letter/document that confirms that RFC/MIH would be responsible for any future tax liabilities that may arise, would such a letter/document be acceptable in a court of law. Would the onus for repaying these sums revert back to RFC/MIH.
Could the employee’s have a “get out of jail free “card.
=================================================================
Re the “get out of jail free” card – should any personal liability arise, I’m afraid that may just be a worthless piece of paper since the company who gave the indemnity is skint and worse than that is in liquidation.
redetin says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 13:34
Your grass needs cutting 🙂
Are you like me, hoping for a foot of snow so gardens all look identical?
iama..
..you beat me to it there 🙂
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:33
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Happy Saint Andrew’s day, Saunt Andra’s day, Latha Naomh Andra everybody. Our young stars of the future had tough luck last night, losing 1-0 to an added time goal by England in the Victory Shield. Disappointing as that is, I gather the performance was encouraging ….
———–
It was a very well-played match, especially by the young Scots. A good passing game and some flair on show. I agree with bawsman that the English lads looked stronger and bigger, that means quite a lot in junior and youth sport of any kind. But Wotte seems to have the kids doing the right things. Praise to the clubs too for developing talent and skills. If it hadn’t been for an accidental save by the English goalie in the 82nd minute (it hit his leg when he dived the wrong way) then the Scots lads would have won the Shield.
PS Even though the lads shamed their senior counterparts by actually singing THAT song, can’t we leave Flower of Scotland with the Corries and return to Scots Wha Hae or some other Burns’ song?
A propos of not very much, but fractionally still on one of the base topics,I present this little gem for your entertainment.
What I copy below was written seriously a number of years ago, not as a wind-up or as a satirical spoof!
I won’t reveal the source just now. Maybe the author (well-known, certainly in Celtic circles) will publicly own up and do penance, and a hefty few decades of the rosary would be the least I would impose!
If not, I’ll post the source later ( although I fully expect someone will identify it within about 5 minutes of this post. No prizes if you do,mind!)
This is what I copied:
“…Scanning around the press over a long period of time I reckon there are three guys at the top of their trade with regard to what they write…..First up is ….Bill Leckie…..
..Another writer I reckon worth paying attention to is JAMES TRAYNOR, formerly of The Herald.Traynor is more of dissector of events and can accurately pinpoint the heart of the matter and its reasons for happening.He is truthful in his opinions, is his own man and is not swayed by the powerful chairmen of the old firm…..
I reckon the best you can hope for are writers with no particular allegiance to Celtic or Rangers who take pride in what they relay to the general public”
———-
I’m still laughing!
youtawknaboot says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 11:39
————————————————————————————————————————-
Thanks for the reply, ytk. It looked to me like you were saying I was one of Jack’s mischief makers. No hard feelings, I hope.
The post-verdict landscape has been dotted with Media House Monkeys in the MSM attacking
the blogsphere contributors for ‘getting it wrong’. Whilst there is an element of smug satisfaction
about it I believe that there more to it than that. They are also attempting to stifle any further independant analysis by discrediting the good work done by those not under the control of (-SDM)
The bampots will be vindicated. Murray will be exposed – no matter how low his lickspittles stoop.
iamacant says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 13:48
redetin says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 13:34
Your grass needs cutting
Are you like me, hoping for a foot of snow so gardens all look identical?
_____________________________________
Thanks for the reminder. Is it looking better now? 🙂
Bawsman @ 12.51
I only saw bits and pieces. Agree with what you say. England go for physique. They have always said, “a good big’un is better than a good little’un.” They miss the point that the good little’un is likely to be better balanced etc. The physique advantage evaporates more or less in late teens. The English still don’t get Messi, Iniesta, Puyol, Cannavaro, and don’t mention the Maradonna etc. etc.
As you say It takes the right people, hard work, and some investment. That will straighten the skew introduced by DM, paid for by others.
No probs TBP..none at all !
As pointed oot earlier, a few “new names” gradually start appearin..which is good, especially those up front & genuinely being of a sevco bent.But there obviously are others with their flash bangs..all smoke no mirrors,or evidence to back up their leggoesque type p*sh..
john clarke says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 14:44
“…Scanning around the press over a long period of time I reckon there are three guys at the top of their trade with regard to what they write…..First up is ….Bill Leckie…..
..Another writer I reckon worth paying attention to is JAMES TRAYNOR, formerly of The Herald.Traynor is more of dissector of events and can accurately pinpoint the heart of the matter and its reasons for happening.He is truthful in his opinions, is his own man and is not swayed by the powerful chairmen of the old firm…..
I reckon the best you can hope for are writers with no particular allegiance to Celtic or Rangers who take pride in what they relay to the general public”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
jc…is the author of that p*sh peice…elderslug HK..?
btw there are only 2 of 3 guys named,who was the 3rd ?
redetin says: Friday, November 30, 2012 at 13:34
Well I have the saltire in my window today as you’ll see uf you pass by my hoose.
=======
I didny see any saltire when I went past, on my way to Specsavers.
youtawknaboot says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 15:27
——————————————————————————————————————————–
We must not forget that much of the press mis-information and gerrymandering
by the authorities was side-tracked and trumped by fan power, with RTC blog,TSFM, KDS and others being the muster points.
It was the vox populi that prevented the Sevco being steam-rollered back into the top flight. The attempt to stifle these dissenting voices and their billets is the prequel to further slight-of-hand.
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 15:44
redetin says: Friday, November 30, 2012 at 13:34
Well I have the saltire in my window today as you’ll see uf you pass by my hoose.
=======
I didny see any saltire when I went past, on my way to Specsavers.
_________________________________________________________
Hope ye’re no the ref at Forfar the morra 🙂
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:33
But where are the parades celebrating nationality, and national saint on this day?
——
Probably in Greece. Or Russia. Maybe Barbados, Ukraine or Romania.
I got a day off work, which was spent traipsing the shops of Aberdeen with the missus. Cheers, Andrew.
tallboy poppy
Spot on and the MSM will be all out to discredit the bloggers in time for the next stitch up called league reconstruction .
angus1983 says: Friday, November 30, 2012 at 16:26
Probably in Greece. Or Russia. Maybe Barbados, Ukraine or Romania.
I got a day off work, which was spent traipsing the shops of Aberdeen with the missus. Cheers, Andrew.
======
I’m not sure whether you’re signing yourself as Andrew, or addressing me thus. Either way, I don’t know what you mean.
Sounds like you did not enjoy the shops with the missus. Maybe the parade in one of those other places you mention would have been more fun.
willmacufree
I believe St Andrew is patron saint of all of these places and more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Andrew
Wilmacufree I think Angus is just referring to St. Andrew
angus1983 says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 16:26
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 12:33
But where are the parades celebrating nationality…
=========================================
O/T.
Since you mentioend it …
In April this year, for the first, my family and I participated in the ‘Tartan Day Parade’ up 6th Avenue, behind one of the many pipe bands.
Nowhere near as big as St. Paddy’s Parade, but still about 1,000 ‘marchers’ and all good fun -celebrating all things Scottish.
Happy St. Andrew’s Day.
SunnyJimYoung kds:
On this day last year Whyte published unaudited accounts about ten minutes before the deadline for lodging audited accounts with the PLUS exchange.
The audited accounts for the year ended 30 June 2011 were destined not to be published.
The last audited accounts for any footballing entity calling itself “Rangers” covered the period to 30 June 2010.
So almost two and a half years have passed since there was any published audit of any transaction undertaken by “Rangers” or “The Rangers”.
Yet they still manage to play in an SFA professional league despite what appears to be a regulation requiring regular audited accounts.
…
So why are we reconstructing the entire league structure to benefit a Club that has shown zero proof it can even survive until the end of the season!?
Just as well Green’s new club is debt-free:
——————
Malaga face further UEFA action over unpaid bills
AFP
fredag den 30. november 2012 – 12.34
Football – Champions League
Spain’s Malaga are one of nine clubs facing further punishment from UEFA over unpaid bills as the governing body tightens its financial controls.
UEFA said in a statement on Friday it had lifted the suspension of prize money for 16 of 23 clubs originally targeted in September after they wiped out arrears owed to other teams, their staff or tax authorities.
However, Qatari-owned Malaga, who have qualified for the last 16 of the Champions League in their debut season, failed to meet a deadline of end-September to show they had cleared overdue payments.
Their case has now been referred to UEFA’s adjudicatory chamber that has a range of sanctions available including disqualification from current competitions.
A Malaga spokesman said the club were working to settle debts “as soon as possible” and hoped to “unblock” the situation with UEFA very soon.
He also noted that midfielder Duda, one of the club captains, had said on Thursday that he and the players were satisfied with the guarantees they had received.
UEFA is introducing Financial Fair Play measures designed to force European clubs to balance their books. Clubs could face exclusion from European competition from 2014-15 onwards if they do not curb their losses.
Other clubs facing further action are Croatia’s Hajduk Split and Osijek, Romania’s Rapid and Dinamo Bucharest and Partizan Belgrade and Vojvodina of Serbia.
Poland’s Lech Poznan and Arsenal Kiev of Ukraine also face action. They were not among the clubs originally targeted but their overdue payments situation deteriorated between June and September 2012.
After heavy investment to reach the Champions League, Malaga appeared to run into financial problems at the start of the season, delaying payments to players and selling others.
Reuters –
Redetin @ 17.57,
Vinbhoy @ 18.04
Still OT, apologies.
It ‘s Angus’s “Cheers, Andrew” I don’t understand. Is it salutation, or valediction? Since neither of us is k.a Andrew, I was just asking, that’s all.
There are reputed relics of St Andrew in many countries, including our own. At least now, as Angus says, it’s a bank holiday, even if we have to spend it parading round the shops.
As people keep pointing out, the written word can sometimes be unintentionally terse, abrupt even, just like my few words earlier. No offence meant, Angus (or is it Andrew?).
And Happy St. Andrew’s day to you too Stevie BC.
ordinaryfan says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 18:19
We do understand the unaudited accounts plays and deceptions from months back – Thank you OF!
Last time I looked – this was a TSFM blog with comments – or is it a KDS blog? – Reply please TSFM
Ordinaryfan
Thanks for that gem of a little post.
Even if SDM really is Robin Hood, and James Traynor is indeed Kahlil Gibran, and HMRC are a cabal of evil, moustacheod rent collectors, and Charles Green is the old dear in the widow’s mite story, and Campbell Ogilvie is the real life wizard of Oz…..
….. they havent produced accounts for over two years – that’s why they are not in Europe because Eufa followed the rules – and the Scottish football authorities decided to ignore theirs.
Thanks for reminding us.
twopanda says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 20:40
ordinaryfan says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 18:19
We do understand the unaudited accounts plays and deceptions from months back – Thank you OF!
Last time I looked – this was a TSFM blog with comments – or is it a KDS blog? – Reply please TSFM
================================================================
Stay cool. This blog is whatever we make it.
Ordinary fan is very active and inaccurate sometimes. It’s almost like he has an agenda (copyright Hugh Keevins).
I used to think RTC had an agenda too.
For the the first time in a looonnnnnng time tonight, I tuned the radio to SSB on Clyde and what do I hear? A failed pundit (“Is there another kind?”, I hear you ask) from Real Radio.
If anyone needed proof that the MSM could not give the proverbial rat’s bahookie what the public wants, the dribbling drivel of Derek Johnstone back on the airwaves should be enough. How this moron can get a regular gig on the broadcast media defies belief.
parmahamster says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 21:19
If anyone needed proof that the MSM could not give the proverbial rat’s bahookie what the public wants, the dribbling drivel of Derek Johnstone back on the airwaves should be enough. How this moron can get a regular gig on the broadcast media defies belief.
=======================================================================
The “public” include Rangers fans too and Big Del is one of them – frae Guvin(except of course he is from Dundee),
So he comes on to rebuild the Rangers stock – there was more than one occassion when he over- rode the concerns of Rangers fans when he said ” no Charles Green would never do that”. How does he know that? Who is paying him? Have SSB asked that?
bogsdollox says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 21:33
The “public” include Rangers fans too and Big Del is one of them – frae Guvin(except of course he is from Dundee),
So he comes on to rebuild the Rangers stock – there was more than one occassion when he over- rode the concerns of Rangers fans when he said ” no Charles Green would never do that”. How does he know that? Who is paying him? Have SSB asked that?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do SSB care?
parmahamster says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 22:06
bogsdollox says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 21:33
The “public” include Rangers fans too and Big Del is one of them – frae Guvin(except of course he is from Dundee),
So he comes on to rebuild the Rangers stock – there was more than one occassion when he over- rode the concerns of Rangers fans when he said ” no Charles Green would never do that”. How does he know that? Who is paying him? Have SSB asked that?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do SSB care?
+++++++++++++++++++++
They should – he was playing the role he always played before – thick Rangers cheer leader but this time he seems to have insider knowledge when he is able to advise Rangers fans that “Charles Green would never do that”
Years ago I complained about him and Hateley appearing on the show and being in the pay of Rangers.
I put a question to the panel about a penalty Motherwell should have had against Rangers. Archie McPherson agreed immediately and described it as “stone wall”. Del said “sometimes you get them, sometimes you don’t”. Who’s opinion do you trust? The paid for advocate of Rangers or Archie?
youtawknaboot says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 15:43
‘..jc…is the author of that p*sh peice…elderslug HK..?
btw there are only 2 of 3 guys named,who was the 3rd ?.’
—–
No, I’m afraid not.
You’ll find the whole piece in the Celtic View dated August 21st 1996, page 15.
The other journalist that is mentioned is Spiers, ‘just ‘topping the previous two’, in Matt’s opinion.
Good BBC Sportsound from Dingwall. Well presented, Ross County chairman was articulate and spoke sense. What a comparison to those who communicate via demands and proclamations.
bogsdollox says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 22:29
Years ago I complained about him and Hateley appearing on the show and being in the pay of Rangers.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I should also point out that before RTC got all heated about the MSM I phoned the Record to complain about their over the top reporting in to the private life of Colin Hendry’s wife and her misfortune after cosmetic surgery (it was on the front page – why?).
The person dealing with the complaints asked me what I did for a living. I asked why that mattered and he then said “I suppose you’re public sector, teacher probably.”. I’ve never worked in the public sector in my life nor am I a Rangers fan.
Given up on BBC and SSB as they are all conflicted and as a license payer and one who refuses to purchase their newspapers they have no sway with me.
On SSB HK opined that TRFC’s status is now an emotional issue.
DJ insisted that next week he will be at ibrox celebrating 140 years of TRFC’s history.
Both admitted that callers saying that it is a new club were correct factually but that doesn’t really matter.
Delahunt, who is obviously a reader here, failed to inform listeners that TRFC have a different company number from the one with the 140 year history.
Nobody in the MSM appears to have the courage to tell TRFC fans that RFC are about to be liquidated.
I remember once being genuinely excited and full of pride when STV was launched. The early weeks were exhilarating. Our very own channel, speaking for all of us.
I had a similar feeling when Radio Clyde began.
……….
Now?
STV and Clyde are in a race to the gutter with every prospect of a dead heat
But neither will win
The Record got there decades ago
Charles is now 2 weeks plus 3 days delinquent on producing the prospectus. Launch day now approximates to Jan 1 2013. Happy New Year.
I’ll let Archie speak for himself.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/bbc-documentary-hardened-views-on-rangers-but-now-different-questions-need-to-be-addressed.19522821
An absolutely pernicious piece by Britney in the Herald, which dispels any notion that he is anything other than a closet sevco agitator.
‘.http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-neil-lennon-considers-life-beyond-celtic.1354024083‘
The FOD employed in the MSM simply will not give up having a go, will they?
There is always, always, a demonic need to lash out, cause trouble, sow dissension, in the hearts even of the ‘moderates’, the ‘educated’, ‘reasonable’ scribes.
Spiers has just shown his cloven hoof.
Give me the honest to God Bombers of this world anytime.
Radio Clyde SSB? Can’t believe we are still debating that shows ‘merits’ ffs it’s car crash radio, imo there is nothing about that show that isn’t moronic, listen at your peril but if you get annoyed by it then basically it’s your own fault for listening, change the dial!
john clarke says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 01:43
12 0 Rate This
—————–
Spiers seems to trying to be all things to all men, pretty much like a few other pundits. They remind me of acrobats on a tight rope with no safety net. Is this the pernicious bit John?
“I remain convinced Lennon was less than enthusiastic about this 2012-13 SPL campaign, given the omission of Rangers. He savours the Old Firm saga and, in the here and now, that is gone.
Lennon respects Scottish football – indeed, he often bats on its behalf – but a fixture card minus the mighty rumpuses with Rangers is not something he salivates over. Among the “Celtic family” Lennon is not alone in this.
Rangers provided the spice. For its rivalry, venom and championship-turning power, the Old Firm fixture is irreplaceable on the Lennon horizon.”
I’m not sure how Mr Spiers knows this but I can’t get too worked up by his opining. This story on the other hand is something Mr Spiers should comment on. A sad state of affairs in the 21st century indeed. And maybe one of the reasons Mr Spiers is completely wrong in his accessment above. Well done to the police though for picking at least one of the culprits up.
http://news.stv.tv/tayside/203285-ban-for-rangers-fan-who-asked-sheriff-if-he-was-a-f-b/
“It is the clubs worst start to a domestic campaign in 14 years and most Parkhead supporters are affronted by it.” – Graham Spiers.
——————————————–
Not me, Graham. I am enjoying a very competitive SPL, enjoying that Lennon can rotate his squad and give younger players a chance to gain experience and rest players and allow them to concentrate on European ties.
I will be concerned if, after the European run comes to an end, there is no improvement to Celtic’s domestic form. Concerned, but certainly not “affronted.”
I hope that come Easter the league is still wide open and that three or four teams have a chance of winning it.
I also think that the fan who confronted Lennon pitch-side, is a tube who handed the MSM exactly what they wanted. There are a number of issues over which I would be willing to make a public fool of myself. A football match isn’t one of them.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 08:04
Re the STV report of sectarian singing and intimidation.
The other day Andy was on telling us about his good experience of people refusing to join in with party songs while on the way to Ibrox on the subway.
I have no reason to doubt his experience but this ‘official’ report just shows there are still ‘dinosaurs’ out there and some appear to be young and daft.
Still a good bit of work to be done I’m afraid.
An interesting contrast. Whilst Speirs is telling us he is telepathetic and can read minds. Glen Gibbons gives us his honest journalism about this continuing saga.
” Yet, in the tumult that has followed the publication of the findings of the FTTT, Murray has barely been mentioned, not just partially concealed under the new paint, but apparently airbrushed from the picture entirely. The “vested interests” referred to earlier do not, of course, merely include those Murray disciples (including his famously compliant media poodles) who now appear to be, metaphorically speaking, spiriting him away under cover of darkness.”
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/glenn-gibbons-the-48m-shadow-over-rangers-1-2670174
From The Times Market Report 01/12/12.
Cenkos Securities putting finishing touches to a multi-million pound fundraising for Rangers FC.
Well informed sources suggest institutional investors have agreed to buy nearly 20 million pounds worth of shares @ 70p each as part of AIM flotation.
Supporters will be able to buy another 10 million pounds worth at the same price for next month or so with minimum investment of 500 pounds.
‘Well informed sources’ my harse.
Morning all.
Into December,therefore no more ST cash for our little Yorkshire pudding.the share issue seems to have,temporarily at least,slipped under the radar so the question must be:
where is the cash coming from?
I don’t expect large crowds at Celtic Park or Ibrox this weekend.Money’s tight and Christmas is just around the corner.
TRFC will be lucky to make £100k this weekend.That is nowhere near the weekly running cost.Next week TRFC are celebrating 140years of history(I know,Iknow) but only around 13k can pay at the gate,say £200k before expenses,VAT etc.
IMO,TRFC will be running at a loss between now and the end of the season.With the share issue postponed we must assume that some of the 20 billionaire investors are meeting the day to day expenses.If not,the cash could run out quite quickly.
Does Charlie know what it costs to run under-soil heating?.
if not,he’s in for a shock.
wottpi says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 09:24
The chap’s story, whilst sweet, does not fit in with the evidence. I say again, the mute fans on the subway clearly didn’t get tickets for the 2011 CIS final, or quite frankly most Rangers away games that I have watched this season, albeit on TV.
Anecdotal evidence is fine, however if it doesn’t tie in with the facts it is less than useless. It is actually misleading. One man’s experience of passive resistance, in an almost Rosa Parks like show of defiance does not herald a new dawn of tolerance.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 10:03
£20m worth of institutional investors apparently.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 08:04
============================
I note that the sheriff he abused was not on duty – he was sitting on a train with his son. Which makes you think. A sheriff, a legal official, is not your ordinary Joe Punter (well he might be but you know what I mean). If he makes a complaint it gets heard – in fact as a legal official he will feel more protected and able to make a complaint than your average Joe.
So to get to my point, how often does this happen to guys that don’t feel safe to complain or they won’t be listened to or they feel that it’s not worth the hassle? I’d bet an awful lot of times.
wottpi says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 09:24
6 0 Rate This
I have no reason to doubt his experience but this ‘official’ report just shows there are still ‘dinosaurs’ out there and some appear to be young and daft.
Still a good bit of work to be done I’m afraid.
—————
Yes, Glen’s piece the other day was so positive wottpi. The thing that struck me about this, that you also noticed, was how young the guy was. Kids aren’t born like that, there’s something in either their upbringing or culture that makes them like that. I don’t even think you can blame the booze either. A lot of people get a bit ‘Wobbly’ without singing that stuff. For me, it gets back to the club. A very strong position has to be taken, zero tolerance. If fans feel they are out of step with their club they might buck up their ideas.
I was listening to James Richardson’s Guardian football podcast yesterday and near the end they were discussing Lazio. According to the podcast the current chairman, Claudio Lotito, has received bullets in the post and uses bodyguards – because he’s been brave enough to take a stand against the extremists who’ve attached their ideology to the club. Sounds distressingly familiar. But well done to him. I reckon the poison we see on our own doorstep could be removed by a strong chairman who doesn’t put profit before human decency, no-nonsense points deductions, suspensions, and matches being played behind closed doors. If the club and the authorities worked seriously together this problem could be ended. But is there a will? In my heart of hearts I still want to believe it’s a minority that can be isolated and weeded out. If ever there was a historic opportunity to tackle this, it’s now.
PS Monsieur, that thought had crossed my mind too. I’m sure many people are too intimidated to complain, hence the need for action from the top.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-neil-lennon-considers-life-beyond-celtic.1354024083
“Lennon’s Celtic are struggling in the SPL …many Parkhead supporters are affronted by it.”
Really
1 Celtic 15 +15 28
2 Hibernian 16 +6 27
3 Inverness CT 16 +3 25
4 Aberdeen 16 +5 24
5 Motherwell 16 +4 24
6 St Johnstone 16 -1 23
7 Dundee Utd 15 -2 20
8 Kilmarnock 15 +4 19
9 Hearts 16 -4 18
10 Ross County 16 -5 17
11 St Mirren 16 -8 16
12 Dundee 15 -17 11
Quite a struggle, being at the top, with a game in hand.
“I remain convinced Lennon was less than enthusiastic about this 2012-13 SPL campaign, given the omission of Rangers. ”
They are dead, Graham, get over it. None of your rhetoric is going to change that.
You used to be a decent journalist and worth reading. You are just embarrassing yourself now. You should be affronted.
willmacufree says:
Friday, November 30, 2012 at 18:48
Brief aside to tie this up:
It ‘s Angus’s “Cheers, Andrew” I don’t understand. Is it salutation, or valediction? Since neither of us is k.a Andrew, I was just asking, that’s all.
——
I was thanking Peter’s brother for giving me the opportunity of having a day off work so I could accompany my better half on a shopping expedition, which is always highly enjoyable at this time of year. That’s all. 😉
Agrajag says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 11:23
“Lennon’s Celtic are struggling in the SPL …many Parkhead supporters are affronted by it.”
…
Quite a struggle, being at the top, with a game in hand.
——
If Celtic are “struggling”, St Mirren and Dundee must be genuinely mired in mythical Armageddon.
Mr Spiers – it maybe true that a portion of CFC fans are “affronted” because their side is not running way with the League by November, but to say that CFC are “struggling” is simply lazy tripe.
I would wager that many CFC fans are actually finding, perhaps to their surprise, that their own interest has a sharper edge due to the proximity of several rivals in the standings.
Agrajag says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 11:23
1 Celtic 15 +15 28
2 Hibernian 16 +6 27
3 Inverness CT 16 +3 25
4 Aberdeen 16 +5 24
5 Motherwell 16 +4 24
6 St Johnstone 16 -1 23
7 Dundee Utd 15 -2 20
8 Kilmarnock 15 +4 19
9 Hearts 16 -4 18
10 Ross County 16 -5 17
11 St Mirren 16 -8 16
12 Dundee 15 -17 11
========================================================
And at the same point in 2011-12. The 2012-13 competition looks interesting, certainly from position 6 up it looks like a more competitive league. Positions 7-11 are similar to 2011-12. It would be good if neither Celtic nor Dundee became detached at top and bottom.
Pos Team P GD Pts
1 Rangers 16 +23 39
2 Celtic 16 +20 35
3 Motherwell 16 +2 30
4 St Johnstone 15 +6 23
5 Hearts 16 +4 22
6 St Mirren 16 -5 20
7 Kilmarnock 16 -4 19
8 Dundee United 16 -5 18
9 Hibernian 16 -10 14
10 Dunfermline 16 -15 14
11 Aberdeen 15 -4 13
12 Inverness CT 16 -12 12
On the posts this morning re Speirs fall into full Scottish MSM mode; he’s moved from the Times back into the fold; no doubt he’s cutting his cloth to blend in. One article after another has selective quotations, ill-informed and misguided opinion. In the latest one he can apparently speak for thousands of fans without any evidence to back it up. Quite ridiculous, and sad.
5starsorbehindbars says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 12:10
================
Agreed
He used to be well worth reading. Now he is clearly trying to ingratiate himself with the rest of the MSM and get back in.
It really is shameful, Graham. I actually find it quite saddening.
angus1983 says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 12:07
0 0 Rate This
Agrajag says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 11:23
“Lennon’s Celtic are struggling in the SPL …many Parkhead
supporters are affronted by it.”
…
Quite a struggle, being at the top, with a game in hand.
——
If Celtic are “struggling”, St Mirren and Dundee must be genuinely mired in mythical Armageddon.
Mr Spiers – it maybe true that a portion of CFC fans are “affronted” because their side is not running way with the League by November, but to say that CFC are “struggling” is simply lazy tripe.
I would wager that many CFC fans are actually finding, perhaps to their surprise, that their own interest has a sharper edge due to the proximity of several rivals in the standings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Exactly so. If I was to conjure up the ideal season, we would have a competive domestic league (with Celtic shading it) and all of our clubs making a decent fist of it in Europe. The only thing wrong with this season is the fact that Celtic are now the only Scottish representatives remaining.
I will employ Graham’s mind-reading technique and suggest that he would suggest that an Ibrox side would have made a better showing than the likes of Hearts or Motherwell. The evidence, of course, suggests otherwise. McCoist’s managerial forays into Europe were embarrassing, and that was before he had to TUPE over to the new club, without many of the highly paid players that elected to jump ship.
ClashCityRockers says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 09:24
‘..Glen Gibbons gives us his honest journalism about this continuing saga…’
—
I particularly liked his swipe:
“The “vested interests” referred to earlier do not, of course, merely include those Murray disciples (including his famously compliant media poodles) who now appear to be, metaphorically speaking, spiriting him away under cover of darkness. ”
What is needed now is for his colleagues on the Scotsman’s Finance pages to give us a proper assessment of the IPO ( in so far as it exists outside Charlie’s imagination).
The Times Market Report ( see CrazyHorse’s post of 09.58 above) is a piece of PR drivel.Are the finance journalists of the press the moral equivalents of our sports journos? Are they also afraid to ask hard questions, demand evidence?
Speirs has simply reverted to type, and joined the rest of the MSM in perpetuating all of the myths regarding Sevco and RFC(IL)
Collectively, the fill their nappies at the very thought of no Sevco in Scottish football, despite the fact that in actual fact is what should have happened
They will not tell the truth about any aspect of this fiasco
They will not tell the truth about the FTT ruling, which has in no way exonerated RFC(IL), but in fact found them to be less “guilty” than we all expected
They will not tell the truth about liquidation, and continue to peddle their nonsense about a holding company, and the club, despite having no legal basis, living outside of the PLC which is being liquidated
They will not tell the truth about Murray and his merry men who brought RFC(IL) to its knees, and they will never ever tell the truth about Charlie and his plans
In short they will do whatever they feel they have to to preserve the defunct organisation’s “traditions”, and will tell anyone who listens that Sevco are not a new club, but a new company
It’s totally embarrassing for everyone, bar the good old MSM
Agrajag says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 10:23
8 1 Rate This
wottpi says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 09:24
The chap’s story, whilst sweet, does not fit in with the evidence. I say again, the mute fans on the subway clearly didn’t get tickets for the 2011 CIS final, or quite frankly most Rangers away games that I have watched this season, albeit on TV.
Anecdotal evidence is fine, however if it doesn’t tie in with the facts it is less than useless. It is actually misleading. One man’s experience of passive resistance, in an almost Rosa Parks like show of defiance does not herald a new dawn of tolerance.
——————————————————————–
When I was still working in Glasgow a few years ago I can think of at least two guys I played football with in a regular works game who had given up on Ibrox because of all the garbage. They still supported Rangers. Unfortunately the loony element had driven them away from the games. Granted, that element is large and unreconstructed.
My question is, if these guys were so turned off to the point of stopping going, how do you turn the tide when everyone left around you is up to their knees in it?
doontheslope says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 09:08
“I also think that the fan who confronted Lennon pitch-side, is a tube…”
________________________________________________________
I take issue on this statement. It’s spelt “choob”
🙄
I’ve just completed the SFA survey which, in line with all such surveys, I found didn’t give me the opportunity to reply to each question with a response I’d wish. For example, the questions regarding reconstruction presupposes that everyone is in favour of reconstruction, or sees it as necessary, and gives no opportunity to say whether or not they are, in fact, in favour of it. I’m not wanting to open a debate on this particular subject and merely giving it as an example, but that question alone clearly indicates that the survey is weighted in a direction the SFA want to take.
I was pleased, however, to be given the opportunity to address the SFA’s transparency and understanding policy, and, because I doubt anyone at the SFA will actually read it, I thought I’d post what I wrote here. (Please note, I am aware it isn’t exactly what the survey asked for, but I took it as an opportunity to get my thoughts on the matter across):
‘The SFA must realise and accept that the media in Scotland is driven by sales figures and by the individual reporter/journalist’s preferences. The ordinary supporter is no longer prepared to accept as true anything these people involved in TV, Radio and the printed press say and are aware that most interviews are a sham with the interviewee seldom, depending on who he/she is, required to face searching questions. At the moment nobody trusts anything issued via media sources, and, unless the SFA find a way to get round this, they will find it impossible to get the trust of the supporters back. One way the SFA could show that they genuinely want this transparency and understanding would be to publish exactly what was said and agreed, and why it was said and agreed, during the discussions of the infamous 5 way agreement. In truth, in any organisation claiming transparency, to continue with such secrecy in a matter of such high profile and importance to every supporter of Scottish football is ludicrous and only serves to fuel the scepticism of this transparency within the ranks of all Scottish football fans.’
CrazyHorse says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 09:58
… institutional investors have agreed to buy nearly 20 million pounds worth of shares @ 70p each as part of AIM flotation.
———————————-
It’s very interesting that institutional investors are willing to pay 70p each for shares in Rangers.
Shares in Celtic currently trade (on the AIM market) at a wee bit over half of that.
SFL3 teams, not able to play in Europe for three seasons must be a much more attractive proposition than the Scottish Champions and league leaders, who are guaranteed at least Europa football after Christmas.
I really don’t understand this finance thing. What else would these investors be getting for their £20m.
readcelt says:
Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 12:58
2 0 Rate This
My question is, if these guys were so turned off to the point of stopping going, how do you turn the tide when everyone left around you is up to their knees in it?
———-
That’s the nightmare. I’m not sure the top brass at the club are aware that many decent people now distance themselves or just give up.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/spiers-on-sport-neil-lennon-considers-life-beyond-celtic.1354024083
Graham Spiers latest is poor on so many levels. Typical MSM s**t stirring. Spiers states as fact:
“But his mind quite often strays elsewhere in football. When some Celtic fans do vent their spleen in Lennon’s direction, they might only harden his ambition to find a new location”
No quotes, no reasoning, he simply TELLS the reader that Lennon IS considering moving, that Lennon DOES consider it all of the time, and that he DOES has ambitions to move elsewhere. Yet no quotes, no facts, nothing.
This is where I think good old paranoia makes an entrance, Celtic fans who know this is nonsense then ask themselves “Why?”. Why is Spiers making this stuff up? Why is attempting to stir ill feeling between Celtic fans and their prestigious Manager?
Lennon has a handbag spat with a couple of fans, the next minute the MSM are jumping all over it and stating FACTS that Lennon wants to leave. Poor Graham, very, very poor.
You will need to try harder than that, because fans are not as stupid as you and your agenda driven chums think.
Regarding the BDO creditors meeting scheduled for 03 December.
Are the public free to go to that event ? Will the outcome be reported?
Just watched another Armageddon Cup derby that ended 3-3 in the Highlands. Entertaining stramash-football, bile-free, and the obligatory dodgy decisions (so what’s new?). Nice.
BBC reporter Kheredine Idessane: “We’re under way at Celtic Park….very small crowd and an appropriate banner in the North Stand – “Football without the fans is nothing”. The home support’s Green Brigade section of the ground is empty for the second week running.
——
I understood the Green Brigade to be the die-hard element of CFC’s fanbase.
Why are they not going to games, i wonder? Serious question.
It’s a small world…….part1690.
Cenkos are also nominated advisors to Kennedy Ventures.
Kennedy Ventures PLC….Chairman Peter Redmond.
Mr Redmond may be familiar to those who follow Merchant House Group PLC where he was Chief Executive.
As a Celtic season ticket holder who has been to the recent home SPL games I have some empathy with the views expressed by GS regarding the fans’ reaction to and views on Neil Lennon.
When you attend a game as a fan, rather than as an observer of Scottish football or even as a Celtic fan who has not attended the game, then you are not interested in the fact that Celtic are top of the league or that Celtic are doing well in the Champions league or that it is very competitive at the top of the SPL.
All that you are interested in is the game that you have just witnessed.
The fans have just spent a significant sum of money to attend the game and in my case I have made a round trip of 120 miles.
Like many other Celtic fans who attended the Inverness game, I was not satisfied with the performance, particularly after other similar performances in recent SPL matches.
It is understandable that in the immediate aftermath of the game the fans’ dissatisfaction is expressed verbally towards team as a whole, individual players and the manager.
It is also understandable that the performance is discussed by Celtic fans in the days after the game and that fingers are pointed at who they think is to blame.
That’s football!
I can appreciate that it was great for Inverness fans that they beat Celtic and that it is great for Scottish Football that it is close at the top of the league.
However, when I am at Celtic Park as a Celtic fan none of these things interest me and that is why I think GS has a point.