The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’ had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.
The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.
I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.
However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.
We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.
We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.
We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.
Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.
Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.
If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.
We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?
TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.
Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).
If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.
But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.
The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.
As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.
For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.
We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.
One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.
The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.
By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.
We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.
Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.
CHARLES GREEN:
“Not all clubs who voted against Rangers returning to the SPL fall into that category and indeed we made Motherwell very welcome when we played them at Ibrox in the League Cup competition recently.
“However, feelings remain very raw and it should be no surprise that we as a club feel this way.”
Will be interesting to see how Sevco handle this if it goes to a replay at Ibrox.
The implication in Green’s statement is that United won’t be welcome. How would they express this in practice?
I think that this statement is already bringing the game into disrepute but if it goes to a replay at Ibrox I think it would actually endanger the safety of United fans. It is not beyond imagination that some Arabs could get seriously hurt.
Wonder what Green would say then?
Stephen O’Donnell (@stephenodonn) says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 20:55
SDM, MIH, would be my first guess or benefactors of the scheme! who has most to lose?
campsiejoe says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 20:33
5 0 Rate This
It’s time that Green and his legions were put in their place by the authorities, and reminded that without the help of the rule twisters and breakers, Sevco wouldn’t be playing any football at all
—————
Unfortunately it is these same rule breakers that we are relying on to put CW in his place.
Not going to happen, they will agree with CW that it was better for security reasons, because that was the real meaning behind CW’s statement.
After all the believed the French definition of b1gots clarification.
Text of an email I sent to Mr Regan of the SFA:
“To: Mr Regan,
CEO,
SFA.
Dear Mr Regan,
No one can now be more aware than you yourself of the consequences of a policy of ‘appeasement’ in the face of bullying, ranting irrationality.
Your Board has , by yielding the pass so disastrously to Mr Charles Green earlier in the season, so weakened the authority of the SFA that you are now almost powerless, and lacking in moral authority enough, to deal with this most recent outburst of nonsense from said Mr Green, who has decided that ‘The Rangers FC’ will not take up its ticket allocation for its match against Dundee United.
He has thrown down a challenge to all of Scottish Football, with his unprecedented abuse of, and hostility to, both the SFA and SPL.
You must, simply MUST, find the courage to deal with him.
He is the single biggest enemy , now that the original trouble-causers are out of the immediate spotlight, that our football has to deal with.
Left to his own devices, he will single-handedly destroy even the possibilty of sporting competition governed by agreed rules.
You should immediately announce an extraordinary general meeting of the SFA to secure the backing of a majority for stringent action to be taken in the face of Mr Green’s constant trouble-making and unwillingness to comply with normal practices and standards of behaviour of men of business.
A worse example of ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ can scarcely be imagined.
Your Board has already made many serious errors of judgment.
You must not make another.
Yours sincerely
Can we deduce from this CG position that Sevco are only likely to play Kilmarnock as an SPL club in the foreseeable future?
It would appear that Chuck has adopted a ‘for us or against us’ approach.I can’t think where he got that mindset from.
This situation is descending into utter farce. Please someone correct me if I’m wrong;
The SFA granted a conditional licence to TRFC,
– conditional in that they paid all football debts
– and accepted the punishment from LNS dual contracts inquiry.
-They have still not paid DUFC 37k, from (irony oh irony) last seasons Scottish Cup tie in Feb 2012
-They have repeatedly stated they will never accept the findings of LNS inquiry, unless they like it!
TRFC are in clear material breach of the conditions set by the SFA……and now they willfully incite their own fans to boycott a SFA Cup fixture cos they dislike the fact that the rules were applied and EVERY CLUB insisted on a fair application of the rules.
So is the licence now withdrawn? I think it is time to play hardball with this vainglorious carpetbagger who treats the authorities like his own personal glory hole!
really, enough is enough now, (I’ve gone all father Ted) but this latest nonsense from CG & TRFC fans needs someone from the SFA or MSM to condemn it and drive home that Dundee UTD did not “kill” rangers – it was Rangers who killed Rangers. CG should be reprimanded for bringing the game and a fellow club into disrepute.
Still no news from the Hilton Hotel meeting today?
Ok I’m not sure if this is feasible – but what if a campaign were started to get other fans to donate a sum equivalent to the ticket price direct to UTD and for each donation some kind of cover/indicator/banner were placed on the empty seats, one for each donation? so UTD get the cash, TRFC don’t and the symbolism is still there?
StevieBC says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 20:22
Is this not getting ever more farcical now ?
And God help us if TRFC ever get back into the top flight, to be able to settle ‘old scores’ – as promoted by the TRFC CEO no less.
The SFA must issue a statement.
—————————————————————————————–
The SFA should have issued a statement when RFC reneged on its debts to other SPL/SFA clubs.They didn’t and by bending/breaking their own rules to keep a Rangers Tribute Band afloat,they made a rod for their own back.
Most people,when folk go out their way to help them are grateful.Alas,TRFC are not most people,They Are The People and should be in their rightful place,at the top of the game,no matter what they do.
The SFA had plenty of time to deal with the RFC problem.They didn’t.Any statement wrt the CG statement and D.Utd will be weak and probably praise Green for avoiding a public order issue.
The fans have made their point.No special tratment for RFC/TRFC.It’s about time some clubs put their heads above the parapet.No favours for TRFC and no confidence in the SPL/SFA.
I am angry and frustrated at The Intranci-gers.
This is a serious question born of those emotions: can someone tell me the last positive affect on Scottish football perpetrated by either Old or New Rangers?
arabest1 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:04
6 0 Rate This
This situation is descending into utter farce. Please someone correct me if I’m wrong;
The SFA granted a conditional licence to TRFC,
=======================================
Arabest1 a common mistake, surely a conditional membership only required a conditional agreement. That is where we have all went wrong.
TRFC negotiated a conditional membership the conditional part being they could ignore it if they wanted.
See how much more sense that makes now 🙂
Mr. Green has by his comments brought the game into disrepute..
His comments have now incited an already volatile support to be disruptive at best….
We now have fans of that club threatening violence against fellow fans who attend Tannadice…
The man is a walking disgrace..this man is being allowed by the SFA to say whatever he likes against whoever he likes…threaten whoever he likes without fear of being punished…
The SFA should decide very quickly that with Green refusing their allocation of tickets…that they have also accepted they will not be entitled to any share of the games profits…and I also assume Mr. Green will refuse to accept any such share of the finances…
Enough is enough with this clown…the SFA must take action against him…his comments cannot…must not go unchallenged….his comments directly infer Dundee United are responsible for harming the club that has been liquidated…DEFAMATION springs to mind!
He was denied the cash available on entry to the SPL…he was denied the fall back of the SFL 1….now he will attack any one and everyone who applied the rules…even tho the rules where bent to allow his new club into SFL 3….
killiemad says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:16
1 0 Rate This
I am angry and frustrated at The Intranci-gers.
This is a serious question born of those emotions: can someone tell me the last positive affect on Scottish football perpetrated by either Old or New Rangers?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
They have managed to unite fans of all clubs in a fight for justice…decency and fairness 🙂
Why does Mr Green not really put his money where his mouth is and boycott the whole Scottish cup competition as an extention in his thinking would see them possibly boycott a semi or final if faced with an SPL team ( that had tried to ‘hurt’ them )
Mr. Campbell Ogilve Sir……………….We are all ears.
Hearts warn of January staff cuts
By Brian McLauchlin BBC Scotland
Hearts may be forced to jettison personnel in January if the Edinburgh club cannot bridge a predicted shortfall of £2m for the season.
Asked if the club would have to cut staff costs if targets were not reached, director Sergejus Fedotovas said: “This is a possibility.
“If that’s what’s required to keep the club in business, we will be forced to do that.”
Fedotovas suggested to BBC Scotland that almost £1m had been raised.
“We are somewhere halfway through addressing the funding gap,” he said.
A resolution has been agreed with HM Revenue and Customs in a dispute over tax and National Insurance contributions.
The £1.75m dispute was revealed in the share issue brochure as Hearts launched a scheme to raise £1.8m at the end of October.
Now Hearts will pay £1.5m to HMRC over a three-year period.
The deal is separate to Monday’s settlement of a £450,000 tax bill which ended the threat of a winding-up order.
The club’s share issue will hand over 10% of owner Vladimir Romanov’s controlling interest, with the scheme due to run until 19 December.
“We are still in progress with our share issue and that is designed to create stability,” added Fedotovas in a bid to drum up further support.
“It is very important for us to achieve the target of selling the shares to our supporters.
“Unless that is achieved, again we will be in the position where it is difficult to meet certain payments from time to time.”
Hearts cut their wage bill significantly over the summer, with several high-profile players moving on, including Rudi Skacel, Ian Black, Suso Santana and David Templeton.
And the remaining players have agreed to salary deferrals this season in a bid to ease the club’s financial burden.
But the Tynecastle club have struggled for form, sitting ninth in the Scottish Premier League and dropping out of the Scottish Cup after defeat to city rivals Hibernian on Sunday, although the men in maroon will take on Inverness next month for a place in the League Cup final.
“We are doing everything we can to bring in as much revenue as possible,” continued Fedotovas.
“Results this season show that the team needs attention and we need to strengthen that aspect of our business.
“But if we are short, if we don’t reach the magic number, it will be enormously difficult to find additional revenue to bring new players to the club and we will need to address our cost base.”
Over the years I have witnessed some hard headed individuals running football clubs in this land, Wallace Mercer, Fergus McCann, a series of weird and wonderful occupants at Dens Callum Mellville, GDS, Marrs, Angus Cook, but have we ever seen such an irresponsible, vainglorious, sociopathic, chancer than Mr Green? The authorities have had their chances to deal with him in the past and failed in their duty to the game, now they have another chance deal with this man before someone gets hurt.
May as well rename Ibrox “Rorke’s Drift”. Because that is the mindset that CG is pampering/catering to. Govan surrounded by the indigenous population waving spears and shouting “Zulu”, which, off course, is Scottish for “grow up”.
paulmac2 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:23
LOL!
You remind me of an old friend of the family whose remark on a death was that the deceased’s only legacy was to have served as a bad example. 🙂
Who is it that keeps saying we shouldn’t dwell on the past and instead move on and just get on with football? The name’s on the tip of my tongue. I’ve been through the alphabet and I’m sure he’s a C.
Very obviously a financially driven strategy (as ever). A sad, sad day for Scottish football. If only we had decent people in charge to sort this out (or to have prevented this disgrace in the first place). Where will this end? Our game is being hijacked under the SFA’s noses. Are they just waiting until Green leaves and then hope everything will be OK? This cannot fester and needs to be dealt with now.
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#SFA will discuss the issue of ticket allocation cash between #DUFC and #Rangers at a board meeting on Thursday. #BBCSport
Dear SFA/SFL.
re boycotting Scottish Cup match by TRFC.
This is the club that some people amongst you want to fast track back to the top table of Scottish Football. Some people really need to have a long hard look at themselves now. This nonsense needs to be stopped forthwith. Withdrawel of TRFC’s ‘Conditional Licence’ immediatley would be a good starting point. God forbid we have all this to look forward to on a weekly basis should they continue to be allowed to play in our league.
Reading their threats to their own supporters shows that they do not care who gets hurt. This attitude is encoueaged by Mr Green. For the sake of all decent paying customers stop this now before real damage is done.
From the rangirs website Headlines at 16:34 McCoist is claiming its a gread cup draw for them and “I had a brief chat with Peter Houston yesterday and they’re obviously looking forward to the tie as much as we are.”
At 18:06, not two hours later, the entire board and staff are calling for their fans to boycott the match.
This must be a headache for their PR people and media office.
arabest1 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:29
Over the years I have witnessed some hard headed individuals running football clubs in this land, Wallace Mercer, Fergus McCann, a series of weird and wonderful occupants at Dens Callum Mellville, GDS, Marrs, Angus Cook, but have we ever seen such an irresponsible, vainglorious, sociopathic, chancer than Mr Green? The authorities have had their chances to deal with him in the past and failed in their duty to the game, now they have another chance deal with this man before someone gets hurt.
==================================================================
I remember not long after the Marrs took over Dundee,they got a doing by someone at Dens Park.
A fan grabbed Peter Marr(I think) and shouted “I just paid 20 quid to watch that sh**e”.
Marr replied “You’re lucky.I just paid £2 million”!
Do we think that Charles Green is in currently control of everything at Ibrox? He just seems to be following the herd at the moment. It seems the “traditionalists” hold all the sway.
The Rangers seems to be running as rudderlessly as the rest of our game. For me, tonight, enough is enough. I’ve had enough of calls to arms from Ibrox (don’t forget Ally’s “we must know who these men are”) going without any response from the supposed leaders of OUR game.
I don’t want a statement from the SFA on Thursday, I want action on Thursday. Throw The Rangers out of the cup. There’s nothing else to be done.
IMO, 2 potential solutions;
1) The SFA either stays silent, or issues a ‘wishy-washy’ statement to no effect.
The public perceive/have it confirmed, that TRFC do indeed run Scottish football.
A lose/lose for the SFA and Scottish football.
2) The SFA issues a strongly worded statement, and then lobs TRFC out of the cup, [as we witnessed over the summer, there must be rules that can be used/abused to justify preferred action ?]
The public is – pleasantly surprised/amazed – that TRFC do not in fact run Scottish football.
Charlie is told to keep his head down – or else.
A win/win for the SFA and Scottish football.
…so it’s option 1) then… 🙄
torrejohnbhoy says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:34
0 0 Rate This
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#SFA will discuss the issue of ticket allocation cash between #DUFC and #Rangers at a board meeting on Thursday. #BBCSport
________________________________________________
Any chance they could add that late fitness test to Any Other Business?
No doubt CG will be looking to negotiate a suitable punishment to keep the pot boiling.
torrejohnbhoy says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:34
1 0 Rate This
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#SFA will discuss the issue of ticket allocation cash between
#DUFC and #Rangers at a board meeting on Thursday. #BBCSport
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should be interesting. The right thing to do would be that Dundee Utd get all proceeds less the usual costs. But (and correct me if I’m wrong) I believe the rules state that ticket price is decided between the clubs, minimum being £8 for this stage of the competition and if the clubs can’t agree then the normal admission charge for the home teams matches applies.
Anyone?
Why are the SFA going to discuss ticket allocation cash ? Surely the issues are rabble-rousing and bringing the game into disrepute. Sounds like a distraction to me.
Although I hope those who run our game will clip this eejits wings, I very much doubt that they will
I am absolutely convinced, that Charlie has so much dirt on them, that they are actually afraid to sanction him or his club in any meaningful way
I want to be proved wrong, but I don’t think I will be
And Just when I was beginning to get bored..God bless you ‘Gerry Mentalmen.
Charles Green’s statement surely flouts Rule 1(a)
Rule 1
Article 5.1
All members shall:
(a) observe the principles of
loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship
in accordance with the rules of
fair play;
With regards to the picketing fans and incorporating Green’s inflammatory statement, then he would be in breach of Rule 28. Has he made reasonably practible steps to avoid misbehaviour?
Rule 28
Article 28.3
Any Misbehaviour by
spectators before,
during or at the
close of a match
resulting from the
failure of a club or
recognised football
body to take all
reasonably practicable
steps to avoid the
misbehaviour shall
render that club or
recognised football
body liable to any
combination of
closure of ground or
suspension or all of
these penalties.
Should any The Rangers official not be in attendance at said match, who will be made available for interviews in accordance with sponsorship obligations?
Rule 300
Article 7.1
Sponsorship and Broadcasting
Matters
– All clubs participating in
the Competition must provide such
rights, facilities and other services as
may be necessary for the Scottish
FA to perform the Scottish FA’s
Obligations, as defined in Scottish
Cup Rule 7.1.
Cannot believe what I’m reading tonight … Charles Green, the CEO of a Scottish ‘institution’ publicly supporting a fan boycott, to willfully damage the finances of another club!
Someone from the SFA should sit him down, look him straight in the eye, shoo away the bluetits tweeting and fluttering around his head and inform him; that his club and bullying fans are banned from this year’s Scottish Cup.
Someone on Twitter posted a link to the Rules and Regulations concerning participation in the Scottish Cup. Dont laugh I know TRFC pay no heed to Rules and Regulations. Visiting teams are allowed to ask for an allocation of up to 20%. Nowhere in the rules does it say that they cannot quite simply say they dont want any tickets.Looks as though on this one, yet again, Charles is likely to be on solid ground. However as far as I can see he doesnt have a leg to stand on if they bring him up on a charge of miscoduct.
While I am on does anyone else think that his rabble rousing this afternoon is more an attempt to deflect attention from the decision of HMRC to appeal the FTT?
What can we do to support DUFC? Some suggestions please, donate money, have a TU/TD poll, buy tickets, organise attendance or what? I’ll do whatever to counter this travesty.
Is their any rational option left but to expel them from The Scottish Cup? Actions such as boycotting between fans is unfortunate – but to have this kind of action authorised by the CEO of a club is surely unacceptable. No member club should be able to indulge in these kind of actions.
John Clarke has once again done the business. Well done, sir. We await with interest the response to your communication. My suspicion is that Regan and co. will try to ignore it and then attempt to waffle their way out of taking action. Should that happen, I think a show of solidarity with United should be demanded of all club chairmen on behalf of their clubs. If they are not prepared to stand up to the bullying tactics of the deRanged elements in Scottish football then perhaps the threat of an all out fixtures boycott would convince them of the need to find some moral fibre. Having said that, I sincerely hope that Regan and co will find it in themselves to do the right thing without such a threat being necessary.
apologies..that was a lot of ‘actions’.
This latest stunt from The Rangers just beggars belief. Just when you thought the collective couldn’t act any more objectionably than it has before. Dundee Utd are actually the victims here, being owed thousands by Rangers. The Ibrox looking glass defies a sane mind. SFA get your finger out. Sack Ogilvie and get to work for the whole of Scottish football.
wjohnston1 @ 22:07
You may be right that he is acting within the letter of the law, however he is most certainly not acting in a spirit of sportsmanship, which after all is what our game is supposed to be all about
campsiejoe.
Agree completely. But dont fight when you know the opposition is probably correct that he is entitled to decline an allocation. Get him on the disrepute charge.
I wonder if the SFA will discuss Greens comments about the SPL stealing Trfc ‘s money while they discuss his latest outburst.
If it is announced that RFC* will get no money from the cup tie, as many as possible should try to get to Tannadice a) to replace the lost income and reassure DUFC that they don’t need to pander to RFC* in future decisions and b) to use this opportunity to publicly show that neutral fans are together in opposing injustice – so wear your own team’s colours.
Of course, if there is to be a RFC* picket line (how ridiculous is this becoming?!?!) then steer clear – no one needs unnecessary trouble.
Seems to me it’s Christmas come early for the fine people of Dundee. There are towns, cities and countries that wish TRFC had turned down previous ticket allocations….To name but a few…
http://www.redcafe.net/f7/spanish-newspaper-open-letter-rangers-fans-176465/
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19761009&id=fvY-AAAAIBAJ&sjid=aU0MAAAAIBAJ&pg=1834,2111179
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/5011404.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/03/rangers-hooligans-manchester-riot
“Everyone at this club is dismayed at the actions of certain SPL clubs, which were actively engaged in trying to harm Rangers when we were in a perilous situation and we are acutely aware of their attitude to us.”
“The last thing we as a club want to do is to compromise security arrangements for any match. I therefore appeal to all fans not to travel to this match and to Dundee United not to sell tickets to Rangers supporters.”
—–
You can see how he’s framing this.
He’s saying that it’s United’s (and, by extension, their fans’) attitude that is the problem, and thus insinuates that he thinks the Bears will not be safe if they go to Tannadice.
And, on another level, he plays to the Bear galleries by apparently supporting a boycott although he actually doesn’t say that. The Bears are too thick to notice, though, and he will be a hero again. Wallets open, lads – share issue heaving into view.
Green is a businessman and a master of doublespeak. He’s obviously used to framing statements so they can be interpreted by different audiences in a way they want to hear. In this case, every potential audience except non-Bears can take his statement and be reasonably happy with it. And that includes the SFA disrepute guy (aside from the first paragraph quoted above – and even then he doesn’t direct his comments at United so will probably get away with it).
Who is going to sit in judgement on The Rangers and Mr Green? Campbell Ogilvie of course. You have your answer already to any charges that might get raised. What hope does the game of football in this country have when the need of the one outweigh the need of the many (with apologies to Mr Spock). A truly sad endictment of the corrupt and morally bankrupt sport.
Were the Rangers not granted temporary membership of the SFL?
Is temporary not suggestive of something that can be withdrawn at short notice?
Edmiston Drive is a regular poster and seemingly an opinion former on RM. this is his take on the DUFC situation. I’ve left the caps but taken off the bold.
Posted Today, 07:56 PM
POPULAR
IT’S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY YOU HALFWITS , IT’S ABOUT TELLING YOU LOT TO FUCK OFF…………………….
YOU FUCKERS ARE READY TO DISAPPEAR.
Someone needs to deal with this.
Those running our game must surely realise now, just how big a mistake the have made pandering to Green, and allowing him to negotiate his own terms for membership of the SFA and SFL
They must now take decisive and highly visible action against him and Sevco
The time for appeasement is over, because if they don’t act what little credibility they have left will be shredded, and they will have announced yet again that Sevco is bigger than our game
ok so sevco go in the fridge as per normal obviously, how many balls will campbell need to pop in the oven (gas mark 1/2 – SFA health and safety) if they actually get through?
tevieBC says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 21:43
25 0 Rate This
IMO, 2 potential solutions;
1) The SFA either stays silent, or issues a ‘wishy-washy’ statement to no effect.
The public perceive/have it confirmed, that TRFC do indeed run Scottish football.
A lose/lose for the SFA and Scottish football.
2) The SFA issues a strongly worded statement, and then lobs TRFC out of the cup, [as we witnessed over the summer, there must be rules that can be used/abused to justify preferred action ?]
The public is – pleasantly surprised/amazed – that TRFC do not in fact run Scottish football.
Charlie is told to keep his head down – or else.
A win/win for the SFA and Scottish football.
…so it’s option 1) then…
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’
Option 2…should have the following caveatte…
And then watch Charlie go into overdrive….
The Fighting fund will suddenly find a reason to spend the pot of money they’ve been keeping warm in their pockets and seek legal advice with a view to taking the SFA to court….
Charlie Green announces he has it on good authority from the European Court that their human rights have been ignored and that they are fully entitled to say and do what they like and now that they have lost out on the expected media revenue from 500 million pay per view bears he is considering suing the SFA for loss of income…
Don’t laugh….he is mad enough to have those thoughts and say them out loud!
This epitomises the kind of attitude all sane people try to understand and contend with….https://mobile.twitter.com/patchcbr600/status/276098548200792065/photo/1
Now that the man with no name is on board…could someone at the MSM ask his opinion of a Boycott?
As pointed out, Rangers were perfectly entitled not to take up their allocation. Now if Charles had just left it at that – no problem. But he couldn’t help himself, could he? Defamation of a fellow football club.
Was it just old Rangers that claimed the copyright on dignity, I wonder?
The SFA now need to act. Things have gone far enough.
oldconewtricks says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 22:46
6 0 Rate This
Who is going to sit in judgement on The Rangers and Mr Green? Campbell Ogilvie of course. You have your answer already to any charges that might get raised. What hope does the game of football in this country have when the need of the one outweigh the need of the many (with apologies to Mr Spock). A truly sad endictment of the corrupt and morally bankrupt sport.
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
You can be sure….that Campbell has been informed his EBT LOAN can be called back in at any time….COMPROMISED…CAMPBELL…NEVER!
paulmac2 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:12
It would be very interesting if someone in the MSM cared to ask Walter if he supported his Boss’s viewpoint? For all his faults, Smith was always very circumspect, and I would think Smith is probably burning with embarrassment and anger that he’s been landed in the middle of all this.
Having read 30-50 posts above decrying TRFC and their crackpot CEO, what are the chances that their actions today attract not one bit of criticism from our MSM?
And therein lies the eternal problem!
smartie1947 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:34
Nothing happened today…………..move along there
As soon as the Sevco supporters started organising pickets instead of boycotts Green had no choice but to speak out against the Mob attending. A Mob of Sevconians outside Dens Park would have resulted in trouble, plus huge policing costs in attempts to stop it from happening.
Green is pandering to the Mob and boosting his share issue whilst preventing unnecessary costs and bad publicity.
He knows the SFA are weak and scared, so has nothing to worry about there. He doesn’t care about future consequences, like future problems at later fixtures between the Clubs, because he won’t be around once he gets his swag. And he certainly doesn’t give the game itself a second thought, it’s a means to an end.
Is anyone really surprised he would stoop so low?
An old, very dear friend phoned me earlier with the “good news” (he still sees me very much as a card carrying Rangers fan) – “that’ll show them!”, I asked who? “Dundee Utd. Thanks to them we’re no in the SPL”. I said that I didn’t think that that was strictly true and that there was ever so slightly more to it than that (to say the least). I also asked him what Rangers fans would have asked of the footballing authorities and fans of other clubs, should another club have behaved as Rangers had/have. There was no answer and we were quickly chatting about music matters. He’s still a very dear friend, but very much mistaken. Other than his good taste in music.
I thought I had saw it all today with Rangers fans threatening other Rangers fans, but then the CEO came out and made sure that no Rangers fans would be welcome to go and support their team in a Cup tie.
It’s at times like this I’m glad I chose to watch football from a distance – about 4 feet from my TV, but only when I’m allowed (i.e. no Eastenders or Spongebob) – rather than be involved in this farce.
Statement from ArabTRUST:
“It’s with great disappointment that we read Rangers’ official statement indicating that they will not take up their ticket allocation for the Scottish Cup tie in February.
In a time when Scottish football needs to look to the future and how we can rebuild our game, it’s sad that some parties choose to refer to past alleged indiscretions against their club as an excuse to not attend the match.
In the instances referred to by Rangers supporters, a court of law decided that Dundee United had acted appropriately in respect of ticketing post the abandoned game in 2009.
As for the decision by the SPL to take action against Rangers in the summer, this was made by the majority of clubs – not only Dundee United.
We believe that the stance taken by Rangers brings them into disrepute in respect of the Scottish Cup. We therefore call on the SFA to act strongly, in particular by stating that the normal competition rules in respect of an equal split of gate money do not apply in this case and that all revenues should be retained by Dundee United.
We also put trust in the SFA using their powers to ensure that fans are free to choose whether to attend games or not and that our competitions, which rely on spectator participation to ensure continued commercial and media profile, are not devalued as a result of the actions of one member club against another.
We call on all Arabs to pack Tannadice and get behind the team in February. The tie is a fantastic opportunity for our club to progress to the quarter final of the Scottish Cup and be just one game away from Hampden.
As supporters bodies, we do not agree with any boycott – fans are the lifeblood of the game. We believe that all clubs and fans need to work together for the good of the Scottish game, rather than continue debating decisions made in the past which many have long moved on from.
It’s sad that yet again, we’re talking about non-football matters, particularly on a day when our Under 20 team won 5-1 to remain top of their league and in the run-up to the derby weekend – a fixture eagerly awaited by fans. We hope this game will again show the positive aspects of football that emanate from the City of Dundee.”
http://arabtrust.co.uk/current/?670-a-joint-statement-from-arabtrust-the-federation
good on wee Strachan tonight on CL Roundup, after Wenger was questioned about who they should buy, Strachan said “you get pundits, ex players telling you must spend, spend” He added “where did that get Rangers ? or words to that effect.
The Gers will no be happy and wont support his possible appointment Scotland Manager, oh I forgot they don’t support Scotland anymore.
I’m acutely quite pleased that T’Rangers have this moron to ‘FollowFollow’. My biggest worry since the ‘Valentines Day Massacre’ was, what flag of hate would this mob now follow?… Lucky for the rest of society, it remains (largely) a football problem.
Lucky us…
There`s not many compromises in sight
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
On the one hand
The LNS panel on dual contracts gets abandoned by the SFA
In exchange
Green agrees to sit in the Royal Box at Hampden with 50,000 supporters and a flute band
While the band plays some all time favourites for the crowd
All the SPL Chairmen lead by Donkey crawl round the track begging forgiveness
Peter Lawell does a double lap for orchestrating the whole affair
The crowd respond by either applauding or throwing pies
Any Chairmen hit by a pie gets banished to the Juniors for 140yrs
……………..
On the other hand
DUFC could be given a public show of support at every game played this Saturday
forweonlyknow says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:39
Now THAT’S how you do dignity.
theglen2012 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:37
Glen you are the type of person I would apologise to if you found my comments offensive. I think what you have highlighted there is a human failing to go with the flow and not question or stand back and say “right what’s going on here, what are the facts”. I’m sure you look at a lot of posts on here and think what am I doing here, but you are in my opinion and others the type of Rangers supporter we would like to see. Regards
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:51
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Yip! Measured. Considered and using plenty of terms/words mentioned in the Scottish FA Constitution … to make sure that they know what is required after TRFC’s scandalous disregard for our game!
Suspension (for a couple of years) & Expulsion from this years is required to put “The Rabble Rouser” in his place.
Amazed at this one today … Or is he just hiding HMRC’s appeal? 😉
The worst part is, this will only strengthen the resolve of Scottish football authorities to get Tribute Act to the top as quick as possible.
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:29
paulmac2 says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:12
I would think Smith is probably burning with embarrassment and anger that he’s been landed in the middle of all this.
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Cardigan is there out of choice and made his move helluva close to when the EBT issue seemed safe – looks as though he might have got that a bit wrong right enough same as Ogilvie.
forweonlyknow says:
Wednesday, December 5, 2012 at 00:00
Exactly. It must have been so tempting to release a statement along the lines of ‘You Whit?!? That’s a bit rich coming from the club who owe us money, who shouldn’t even be in the league etc. etc.’ . Instead, they took the moral high ground, and didn’t get involved in the playground level missives that Charles Green thinks are befitting the head of the supposed biggest football club in Scotland.
briggsbhoy says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 23:55
Not at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I haven’t chucked my toys out of the pram!
Luckily I have distanced myself somewhat from the whole thing many years ago – these days I watch my (ex)local Junior Team (I moved away some years ago) and I still enjoy my football. I go to watch other Junior teams when I can’t watch my own team. Although, given the small attendance, I am probably viewed with suspicion at unfamiliar grounds!
That said, I still remember leaving Ibrox and the only thing I was worried about was how Celtic had performed. I ended up being more concerned with how another team did than the actual team I supported. And I was taken to games by my uncle. A terrible, terrible, bigoted man. My father supported Motherwell and would not allow anything like what my uncle came out with, in our house.
Now, in my mid 40’s I do not know the 14 year old who felt and behaved like I did. I genuinely struggle to even believe that was me. But it was.
Sadly some people seem to have never grown up. And can’t establish right from wrong.
It’s meant to be a game. Played fairly. Not a hate and blame fest.
Great article http://fb.me/26bmBYKyO From The AwayEnd.
Stephen O’Donnell (@stephenodonn) says:
Tuesday, December 4, 2012 at 20:55
So who will pay for lawyers to represent the old RFC(IL) in the HRMC’s appeal against the FTT ruling? Obviously it’s nothing to do with Charlie Greens outfit, so they won’t pay, and BDO are unlikely to see it as a fruitful exercise. In which case, is it possible any appeal would be unopposed by any relevant party?
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Rangers was only 1 of 5 Murray Group companies appealing the FTTT so not much chance of the Upper Tribunal appeal being unopposed.
Folk are wondering what the SFA are going to do about this latest offense from this utterly shameless “Scottish institution”. Until we see change at the top, or the sponsors demand redress, don’t get your hopes up folks.
We very often make the mistake that the current turmoil in the Scottish game is solely about a club that is/was known as Rangers and their tax/commercial practices. Not so.
The continuing chaos and ill feeling is merely symptomatic of people such as Campbell Ogilvie, Jim Ballantyne and their ilk doing absolutely everything in their power to ensure that nothing risks the survival of their preferred ‘institution’.
In Campbell Ogilvie’s case in particular it’s most likely that his very survival (within the echelons of power) is wholly dependant upon the continuance of the power exerted over the Scottish game by the club formerly known as Rangers.
Let’s not forget that Campbell Ogilvie is the head of the appellate body with regard to the SPL unregistered payments enquiry. In any other sector, this would never be permitted as the head of the appelate body (if conflicted) would be asked to step aside to ensure integrity.
Also. it is unfortunately forgotten by our MSM that, even putting the big tax case aside, no club has defrauded the nation, it’s taxpayers, it’s governing body or it’s member clubs to the extent that “the quintessentially British club” has done during the season 2011-2012.
And yet despite this most serious of transgressions, the rule book was thrown out of the window by the governing body (never mind bent) to allow the perception that this club continues. This being the very same governing body that is there to protect the honour, integrity and reputation of the game.
Until the placemen are gone from the governing bodies, the integrity and reputation of the game will always be placed secondary to the interests of the artists formerly known as Rangers.
As for their fans, how on earth can anyone expect them to engage in conciliation when the club and it’s core business is to pander to a very vocal proportion of them who are fixated on a battle over three hundred years ago?
A battle that has no relevance whatsoever to Scottish football other than in the minds of the deluded.
Instead of calling “No surrender” surely the call should be “Let’s get together”?