The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’ had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.
The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.
I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.
However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.
We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.
We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.
We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.
Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.
Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.
If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.
We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?
TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.
Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).
If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.
But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.
The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.
As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.
For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.
We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.
One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.
The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.
By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.
We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.
Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.
wottpi says: Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 17:18
I suspect that McCoist still has his 1M shares. The listing in the AIM release yesterday only went down as far at those with a 3% holding (is that the legal threshold for disclosure?). McCoists pre-admission holding was 2.99% and his post admission holding will be 1.73%.
Has Sir Walter of Cardigan been spotted recently ?
When he was announced as a non-exec, I thought that was a smart PR move by TRFC, [and I was genuinely surprised that he had actually agreed to return.]
Like most, I thought his value would be in selling shares – but he could also have temporarily dealt with his friends in the MSM, and take some of the focus off Charlie ?
This whole DUFC debacle seems like another PR disaster – which may or may not help to shift some more shares.
So where is the man with one name ?
SFA press release following today’s meeting with the SFL and SPL on league reconstruction
PGB to form league reconstruction working group
Thursday, 06 December 2012
Statement issued on behalf of the Professional Game Board:.
“The Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League have agreed to set up a working party of nominated club representatives to expand on the extremely productive meeting held today by the Scottish FA’s Professional Game Board regarding league reconstruction..
“It is intended that the first meeting of the working group will take place later this month and will also include representatives of the Scottish FA Board..
“The PGB are greatly encouraged by the willingness on both sides to engage on the many areas of common ground and also in their commitment to implementing change..
“After the working party have reached consensus on a final set of proposals, they will be presented to all clubs across the SPL and SFL for consideration.”
wottpi says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 17:28
killiemad says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 16:34
Kenny Shiels is one of those guys in football who are smart but not quite as smart as he thinks he is
_________
I think you are right, I find myself listening to him and then questioning what he said. The other night I jumped in the car and heard him talking fouls committed and refereeing decisions. He explained that his team when they play the likes of Celtic are given more fouls against them during game, quite disproportionate he said. On reflection I think that is not a bias on the referees part but more as a reflection of guys raising their game and trying to prove that they are as good as the guys playing for Celtic, they get stuck in basically. If I played for Killie I know for a fact that if Celtic came to play us even as a Celtic fan I’d get tore in. Do we not see that with the moaning Rangers have been doing in the lower league about being kicked, human nature really.
easyJambo says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 17:55
0 0 Rate This
SFA press release following today’s meeting with the SFL and SPL on league reconstruction
PGB to form league reconstruction working group
Thursday, 06 December 2012
Statement issued on behalf of the Professional Game Board:.
“The Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League have agreed to set up a working party of nominated club representatives…. ”
———————-
easyjambo……
SFL.. nominated club representatives…..
I trust this does not mean what I think it means….. if Chuckles (or anyone else from Sevco), is on it…. please no…. don’t know about you, but the daily “motion” from Sevcoland is beginning to wear thin !
Briggsbhoy.
You also have to take into account that kilmarnock are less likely to have a high % of possession when playing Celtic, and when you dont have possession then you are making tackles to win the ball back. Low possession % also leads to tired legs in the latter stages of the match which leads to tired tackles.
killiemad says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 16:34
15 0 Rate This
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20630271?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Oh, Kenny, Kenny, Kenny…..If this isn’t one of your little jokes I’m gobsmacked. Killie don’t need to be at war with the SFA. There is a little piece of me that worriesd that he is aiming to be the next Sevco manager…
Probably reading too much into this, hopefully!
======================================
you dont think he’s ripping the pish out of chico green?
StevieBC says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 17:52
3 0 Rate This
Has Sir Walter of Cardigan been spotted recently ?
———
He was visible on telly exchanging jovial words with Mr Green in the directors box just before the Elgin game.
5starsorbehindbars says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 18:28
easyJambo says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 17:55
0 0 Rate This
SFA press release following today’s meeting with the SFL and SPL on league reconstruction
PGB to form league reconstruction working group
Thursday, 06 December 2012
Statement issued on behalf of the Professional Game Board:.
“The Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League have agreed to set up a working party of nominated club representatives…. ”
———————-
easyjambo……
SFL.. nominated club representatives…..
I trust this does not mean what I think it means….. if Chuckles (or anyone else from Sevco), is on it…. please no…. don’t know about you, but the daily “motion” from Sevcoland is beginning to wear thin !
=================================
Is there not some rule where TRFC,as an “Associate Member” of the SFL can’t take part in votes,etc.
I’d assume that meant administration(see what I did,there)issues.I’m probably wrong though.
Arabest, a good post from a fan direclty involved.
A couple of points. I hope Green also donates the £100k Sky money also and that the Rangers charity is properly monitored in handling this money.
Secondly as you say, Dundee United should treat this competition with the integrity it deserves, and thump Sevco 7-0. come on you Arabs…..
Alastair Henderson (@allyjh72) says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 15:04
However, Green is trying to divert attention from the real issue, which is that one member club has officially sanctioned a boycott of another and made unfounded allegations against the club.
——
No it hasn’t.
.
goosygoosy says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 16:58
Rangers International Football Club plc following admission will own and operate Rangers Football Club Limited.
…
Does this matter in the context of the share offer?
You bet it does
…
There is absolutely nothing to stop RIFC plc selling off TRFC providing the required vote is passed at an RIFC EGM
This could happen for a variety of reasons
e.g.
Making money for the consortium who control the Board
Or
Repaying secret favours given under the RFC Purchase Agreement with D&P
Or
Resolving a dispute with BDO about ownership of RFC assets
…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Exactly the point I made when they first came up with this ‘holding company’ joke. You sell shares in the ‘holding company’, start, let’s say, Sevco 2013 then the board take the decision to ‘sell’ the club to Sevco 2013 and the whole thing can star again.
It costs £18 to incorporate a company, if you do it yourself. Sounds like Mr G could make some serious cash if he is not bothered about upsetting the fans.
I listened to SSB tonight to here some sevco fans talking about the boycott at Tannadice. The usual terms were expressed, kicked when down, fans getting the boot in, all fans hate sevco in a
bigoted way (their words). Fans voted sevco down through hatred.
I have a real concern about this attitude as eventually this could lead to fans being in physical danger (lets not pretend this is not a possibility) hopefully I will be proved wrong only time will tell.
This atmosphere or feeling could have been prevented by the the SFA if they had treated the old Rangers by applying the rules (without fear of favour). Instead of that they involved all clubs and their fans to apply the basic rules of integrity and now as a result of that the word FEAR is lying like an undercurrent in Scottish Fooball.
wottpi says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 17:18
AIM admission shareholders
————————————————————————
You mentioned the original list on scotslawthoughts and it was accurate and from a good source. Chico was down for 5 million shares and there were 5 others who didn’t want named – don’t know if this was bullsh*t or not. Ashley was a posibility for 2 million shares but wasn’t firmed-up from memory. Going on the AIM info produces it seems to confirm the list.
You’ve got to remember that any shareholding below 3% isn’t listed and because of the dilution when it goes from Ltd to Plc some names will be in the Ltd list but drop-out for the Plc one – although they could still be shareholders but equally might not have carried through as I always felt that in some way the list was a ‘wish-list’ rather than signed, sealed and delivered.
Something like 22.6 million shares involving the original consortium shareholders will be swapped on a 1 for 1 basis with the new Plc shares but you have to remember that isn’t new money.
So we are talking about £27 million to raise – £17 million from new investors and £10 million from fans. We don’t know how many of the original 22.6 million shares will be punted on flotation by the original investors which is another issue and I still reckon £5-6 million from the fans would be a very good response.
The Colin Mather anomaly could be caued because he was a late investor and my memory is that it was to be him and his business partner (Gisborne) but his name seemed to disappear from things. But Imran Ahmad did say that the original invetors paid 50p a share but 1 million had been sold late on for £1. So did Mather kick-up when Ahmad’s comments were made public and get his shareholding doubled so he was also only paying 50p. I don’t know but sounds feasible.
So. TRFC take their gate money from DUFC and just hand it to charity. Call me an old cynic here but I just do not see this happening. I believe that TRFC need the money so badly that they will make some excuse to keep the cash. Excuses like ‘the charity was closed the day we went to give them the money’ or ‘the money’s just resting in our account just now’ ( Circa Fr Ted)
Myself and my family have unanimously decided we will not be reading any more posts by angus1983.
There are certain posters on here who stand up for everything that Charles Green says despite Mr Green stating that SPL clubs stole his money among other erroneous statements and feelings are raw. these statements cause me anguish during a particularly troubled time for me on the blog
Myself and my family dont want to upset TSFM by being involved in debates that puts pressure on the moderators though i would add that i have been able to debate with other posters on similar topics. I look forward to a time that my family and I can once again debate with all posters once again.
=============================
No hard feelings angus and nothing personal but i wanted to make the point that technically you are right about Greens statement on the boycott but it is saturated in insinuation against D Utd. My family and I will of course be reading all your posts as usual. 😀
ohhappydayz says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 19:47
3 0 Rate This
I listened to SSB tonight to here some sevco fans talking about the boycott at Tannadice. The usual terms were expressed, kicked when down, fans getting the boot in, all fans hate sevco in a
bigoted way (their words). Fans voted sevco down through hatred.
I have a real concern about this attitude as eventually this could lead to fans being in physical danger (lets not pretend this is not a possibility) hopefully I will be proved wrong only time will tell.
This atmosphere or feeling could have been prevented by the the SFA if they had treated the old Rangers by applying the rules (without fear of favour). Instead of that they involved all clubs and their fans to apply the basic rules of integrity and now as a result of that the word FEAR is lying like an undercurrent in Scottish Fooball
………………………………
I haven’t had time to listen and am reluctant to listen through that nonsense whilst I am feeling reasonably good about Scottish football for a change. However just out of curiosity, and most importantly for me being the sinister threats of pickets.
1. Were the THREATS OF PICKETS and stopping football fans attending a game discussed and harshly criticised by the panel?
2. Did anyone on the panel point out the trips to Inverness and Motherwell? Both Clubs voted to refuse the new Club entry to the top tier of Scottish football, yet they were sell outs.
3. Did any of the panel mention that the called off game at Dundee Utd happened a whole 3 years ago and the return match was boycotted by RFC supporters, and that RFC supporters have attended multiple games at Tannadice since?
Now I know they will never point out the obvious, that Sevco are a Tribute Act and therefore not Rangers. But if they are not even getting the basic facts and background story correct with regards the “why” these threats were issued to start with, how is it possible to “discuss” the issue in any meaningful way?
They may well have pointed all of this out, as I say I haven’t listened. However I know the print media are swerving all facts surrounding this latest farce and embarrassment forced upon Scottish football by Chuckles Mob.
I genuinely wonder if anyone, even amongst the Sevconians, has any idea where this threat to boycott and picket Tannadice has stemmed from. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 20:13
So. TRFC take their gate money from DUFC and just hand it to charity. Call me an old cynic here but I just do not see this happening. I believe that TRFC need the money so badly that they will make some excuse to keep the cash. Excuses like ‘the charity was closed the day we went to give them the money’ or ‘the money’s just resting in our account just now’ ( Circa Fr Ted)
————————————————
Can Dundee United not then ask Rangers to nominate whatever charity they want their share to go to, and to save on admin expenses, they (Dundee U) then send the money to the charity direct?
timalloy67 says:
I hope you are correct in every detail!
Jim Spence said tonight he had heard DUFC were also donating revenue from this match to their charity, (all though this is as yet unsubstantiated) if its true lets hope that is an end to the futile eye for an eye point scoring. Lets hope too that the game is a sell out and passes without any unsavoury off the field incidents, I love the Scottish Cup, and my team and would hate either to become further embroiled in Mr Green’s reckless pursuit of £s (or is it historical notoriety?) . Lets also bear in mind (geddit?) he is handing that club over to forces that ought to be flushed into history, I still await a significant voice of TRFC/RFC to speak up for those who love that club and who see a future other than the aggressive isolationism that is so far being offered by the current regime.
Did I miss a statement from the SFA re the boycott?
I know this is the Scottish football monitor but I heard a report on radio tonight that Coventry City are in dispute with the company that own the stadium they play at.
This dispute has reached the stage that the club could be placed in administration and end up with nowhere to play. Now this is a sad state of affairs for what, in my youth, was quite a large club.
This may be a warning for any club who loses control of their stadium and if the Heads of Term document recently published is true then this could lead to a financial drain on ‘The Rangers’ balance sheet.
Now this may, or indeed may not, be the case but it struck me that there is a whirlpool of insolvency now sucking down our, and in this instance, I mean Britain’s national sport. Our countries business law is a shambles; wealthy players are preferred creditors, owners can spirit cash in and out of clubs apparently on a whim to the detriment of the business, huge debts are attached to virtually every club in the EPL, in Scotland most clubs run at a loss with no plan to pay off their debts out with the hope of selling a player for a profit.
Our sport cannot continue much longer on this road where clubs hope for a billionaire sugar daddy to arrive and carry them through to a sporting utopia while paying off incredible debt.
I have no faith in UEFA’s financial Fair Play rules but in the last few years we have witnessed a spate of insolvencies; Portsmouth – I’ve lost count of how many times they’ve been in administration, Dundee twice, Motherwell, Leeds, Hearts, Gretna, possibly now Coventry have all had, or are experiencing financial hardship, while Rangers were liquidated.
How do we as fans try to influence the authorities to place better financial governance on our game as matters are clearly getting worse?
It is great to be a fan of one of the top five clubs in England but as things stand these clubs will end up playing each other seven times each season in a few years time.
It has all gone horribly wrong for C Greene. He has tried everything to have servco thrown out of football and the ‘Conditional Licence’ withdrawn so as to capitalise on his gamble, but to his amazement they are still tolerated by SFA! . Rumour has it he is puzzled as to what to do next.
His international backers are said to be disappointed with his performance to date and have put him on notice to up his game or there will be changes – any bets who will replace him?
rab says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 18:31
I’m wondering if there is a statistic which show when fouls are committed in a game. Going by your analysis are they mainly in the latter part of the game ? Don’t disagree with you but I’m just wondering if this would back it up
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 22:34
Did I miss a statement from the SFA re the boycott?
======================================================================
Wondered that myself as board meeting scheduled for today, nothing on SFA website.
Senior says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 22:42
———————–
surely not? I mentioned this as a ‘wild’ jest a couple of days ago!
JTCEO ?? 😉
Easyjambo &
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 20:04
Gorbon Ltd – 1.55 million – NO MENTION
Norne Anstalt – 1.2 million -CORRECT
Thanks for the replies.
As i questioned I was wondering it may be the case that the smaller shareholders are not liisted because of the % holding or just lack of space on the form.
However it doesn’t explain where Gorbon, above, went as Norne are given a name check.?
Nor does it explain why Ashley’s investment was not shouted from the rooftops if this was only finalised over the last six weeks. Surely that would have made the offer more attractive other investors and get a few more fans on board?
RIFC share Issue
Could this explain why a mad proposition is about to be launched on AIM?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
What If
The secret terms in Greens RFC purchase agreement include comittments to pay off Whyte, Close Leading and Ticketus. Thats why the terms are secret
With just one problem
The commitments can`t be honoured secretly since they involve milking the gullible for years ahead
So the Consortium need a higher level holding co which has the freedom to exploit TRFC assets without going public about it.This way it can hide transactions in the inter Co accounts
Hence
While suckering gullible fans is not to be sniffed at
The Share Issue is not the main aim. Hopefully it will cover its costs
The real aim is to provide legal cover for RIFC shenanigans later on
One things for sure
TRFC fans will end up paying for everything
killiemad says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 16:34
23 0 Rate This
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20630271?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Oh, Kenny, Kenny, Kenny…..If this isn’t one of your little jokes I’m gobsmacked. Killie don’t need to be at war with the SFA. There is a little piece of me that worriesd that he is aiming to be the next Sevco manager…
Probably reading too much into this, hopefully!
…………………………………………………………………………………….
Killie…having read the piece….there are 2 things to mention…and if someone could pass it onto Kenny it might avoid him making an Arrrse of himself…
1. A game consists of 2 equal halfs consisting of 45 minutes…no game lasts more than 90 minutes…Kenny either doesn’t understand the laws of the game…which as a manager of a professional football club is a concern or he is so upset with the SFA that he has blinded himself with school boy logic…technically Pascalli was sent off in the 4th minute and therefore took no further part in the remaining 86 minutes…stoppages are not part of play.
2. He was not suspended for the remaining 86 minutes. His dismissal according to the laws of the game mean he could play no further part in that game…it was not a suspension…
So if we follow Kenny’s angry thought process…then Pascalli will be suspended for a further 4 minutes into the Celtic game? and as a suspension he is not permitted to be in the dug out or technical area or listed as a player or substitute…how then does he propose to include him as a substitute 4 minutes into the game after the team sheets have been submitted prior to the commencement of the game.
Of course he can simply play him…the ref will allow it as he should and the SFA will dock them 3 points with Celtic being awarded a 3-0 victory…can you imagine if Killie win the game….now if I were Hibs..or any other club chasing Celtic I would not be best pleased that a tough away game was handed to my opponent on a plate because of one man’s ego.
The whole thing is just Kenny trying to make a point…that he can out think the SFA!
He has done himself no favours…and why he chose to go public with this isolated thinking is beyond me?
justshatered says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 22:36
………………………………………………………………
They could start by removing the anonymity of ownership of clubs.
18 of the 20 EPL clubs have nominee ownership…whilst three quarters of the championship also have nominee ownership…at the time of this discovery by panorama…Southampton were in the Championship and it was discovered that the guy listed as their nominee owner had been deceased for 3 years…
The hidden ownership at clubs is in my opinion entirley wrong and should be stopped by FIFA…nominee ownership or shareholding must be stopped.
Just a thought – Celtic play away to Kilmarnock this weekend for the first time since their chairman voted against the wishes of their fans to allow Newco to enter the SPL directly- there has been no talk of any boycotts or any such silliness.
Seems some folks can forgive and forget and move on,
How about Dundee Utd invite various Rangers supportes assoc chairmen to Dundee for a clear the air meeting.
Or
Various chairmen of supp assoc from teams in SpL and sfl meet with Rangers conter parts and they all tell Rangers how it is. If they give it WatP no surrender stuff kick them out league, if there is compromise great and we move on.
There is ever mounting evidence of moral as well as financial bankruptcy emanating from Ibrox and some of their support that will lead to unintended consequences.
I have always been ready to argue for decent Rangers supporters and not draw generalisations from the utterenaces of the extreme element. However I find it more and more difficult to argue the case when that extreme element appear to have taken over the heart of the club. I happen to know the Rangers manager from a number of years back and a very pleasant and decent guy he was to me then. However by his “who are they?” utterances and going along with the CG attitude I have had to change my mind in terms of arguing for their cause. How can anyone when they take away any argument by their ignorance of the principles of fair play on which rules are based?
Rules are based on principles of fair play and natural justice. The expectation is that all participating clubs will recognise those principles.
I have no problem with Rangers fans not wishing to contribute to the income of Dundee United, that is up to them. I do have a problem of Rangers as a club claiming the share of income to which they have not contributed a penny, the underlying principle and expectation beneath the rules being that clubs would act in a fair and sporting manner. In that respect The Rangers behaviour suggests new rules are needed for when a club ignores the unstated principle.
That Rangers have belatedly recognised this principle by donating the income the never would have earned going to a charity rather than the club, if I am being charitable, is a good thing. However being cynical I think it was a belated recognition that unless they did so they would continue to be branded as a club who were quite happy to use other people’s money for their own ends.
Rangers men seem always certain on the rules but when it comes to the principles and moral values such rules were intended to convey, they appear to have lost their way.
A few lateral thoughts
If you were Green would you buy the Assets of RFC in the certain knowledge that you could NEVER call the newco RFC?
If your answer is NO
Then Green cannot afford to ignore Craig Whyte when he buys RFC Assets from D&P
Thus Whyte has to be paid off somewhere in the Asset Sale Agreement.
Its the only way Whyte has a legal recourse that also destroys Greens credibility at a stroke
And
If you were D&P and you had been instructed by New York to break any deals MCR made with Whyte and simply play it by the book
Only to discover later that Whyte had incriminating evidence on both MCR and D&P he was willing to release to the BBC and BDO…………
Would you appeal to New York to go along with an Asset Sale Agreement containing terms that Whyte and Green wanted kept secret ?
If your answer is YES
Then Whyte has to be paid off somewhere in the Asset Sale Agreement.
Its the only way Whyte has a legal recourse that also destroys D&P`s credibility at a stroke
Think about it
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 00:21
………………………………………………………
It strikes me that over the last few days certain individuals have recognised the folly of CG’s comments regarding the Dundee United Scottish cup game being about the SPL and the decisions taken not to allow SEVCO into the SPL and as a result of that decision fans should consider not attending the game…..suddenly the boycott has now centered on a postponed game from 3 years ago?
Charlie playing to the gallery again…whilst others are having to find a reason to justify his comments…
Still doesn’t explain why he didn’t provide similar sound bites in cup games against Motherwell and ICT…sorry forgot they were home games…it was his money he would have been gambling with.
paulmac2 says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 23:58
‘….They could start by removing the anonymity of ownership of clubs…’
—–
I think the FIFA club-licensing rules require that the ultimate owner(s) of a club be declared.
At least, that’s the way I read Art 10.4( financial criteria) which requires that in the ‘Notes’ to the accounts ‘….there must be disclosure…. of the ultimate owner(s) of the licence applicant..’
Have a read at http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/club_licensing_v4_en_33721.pdf
angus1983 says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 19:31
“No it hasn’t.”
Really? Then perhaps you could explain why the following official TRFC statement does not equate to a boycott sanctioned by one club against another?
Green said: “I therefore appeal to all fans not to travel to this match and to Dundee United not to sell tickets to Rangers supporters.”
Dear Agony Aunt
I went to Tescos the other day – I bought some groceries – one of them was some rolls in a peper bag and dwhen I got home was spoilt and unedible- I went back and asked for my money back but Tescos said it could only give me a replacement but would stll have to charge me at least half price since it could have been my fault for the soggy rolls, since I left my shopping bag in the rain while I waited for the bus.
I took the rolls and paid half price and enjoyed them. I have been back a few times since then and enjoyed the wonderful shopping experience every Friday.
Lst week I was caught swapping price labels on a tin – they said it was stealing but I was trying to make my spending go further, so am not sure what the issue is at all. They threw me out the store and told me not to come back until I have learned my lesson and so I have to go to Spar now.
However, I have now decided that I am now going to boycott Tescos due to the soggy rolls.
I have demanded that the profits they woudl have made from me on the Friday I normally go shopping will now be set aside and go to a charity of my choosing – even though I have told them I won’t spend a dime in their stores any more.
The Tesco manager cannot think of a suitable reply, his staff told me while laughing.
Some people don;t know how to do business nowadays!
Yours CG
AA – you seem like an idiot – when every other supermarket and shop have decided that you are indeed a thief and you have no friends left, where will you go to shop? Please ask Santa for a moral compass – you need one.
On the issue of Kenny Shiel’s latest outburst, how much media focus do you think Killie would have without Kenny’s gems?
Love him or loathe him, he’s the best PR outlet Killie have had for a good few years.
Ref the TRFC boycott, would be a considerable element of poetic justice if the game went to a replay at Ibrox.
Would the TRFC fans boycott that game knowing that 40% of takings would go to DUFC whether their fans turned up or not?
It may yet be that the issue of a boycott could spectacularly backfire on TRFC.
Poetic justice of course would also require that DUFC win such a replay.
Beyond the bounds of possibility?
john clarke says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 00:49
……………………………………………………………….
I agree John….however the nominee shareholding/ownership is a method used to suggest Joe Bloggs is the owner when in fact he is only the front man to the nominee shareholding/ownership as discovered by Panorama in the case of Southampton…
So in essence the owner is Joe bloggs (who had been deceased for 3 years)…but behind him are unknowns…Panorama suggesting the purpose of such mechanisms was to either hide the names of undesirables…or to syphon money out…and the fans who can be volatile would never know who was responsible…
With the nominee being able tp move onto another club leaving behind carnage…
The nominee structure was exposed to show how easy it was to set up and run…they even had Bryan Robson (ex-man utd and England) on a hidden camera discussing his willingness to front a nominee ownership on behalf of the undercover Panorama investigator…they then went into detail how it could be done without it costing the nominee a penny to run the club.
The nominee puts up the cash to buy the club…Bryan Robson presents it as his acquisition..
The documentary was astonishing at the corrupt mechanisms at play….it also had interviews with Scudamore and others within the FA…who basically confirmed they don’t know who actually owns some clubs.
corsicacharity says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 13:28
Thank you for that CC. I can only conclude that my friend and his wife (neither of whom are football types) are, wrongly, under the illusion that RFFF paid them.
My contribution to the TSFM song contest (very much dependant on HMRC winning of course!);
SDM said there’s no tax due
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
Needed money to cheat everyone
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
Titles won and debts unpaid
Nowhere left to run
They went bust, and couldn’t care less
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
Robbin’ people and competitors too
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
Taxpayer’s tenner for every ‘Tic fiver,
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
They miss ‘the Gers’ and they feel so sad
But guess what they’re now done
Charlie boy’s now providing the fun
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
They fought the law and the law won
goosygoosy says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 16:58
Any news about about Ticketus not being creditors?
Bunion says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 01:04
On the issue of Kenny Shiel’s latest outburst, how much media focus do you think Killie would have without Kenny’s gems?
Love him or loathe him, he’s the best PR outlet Killie have had for a good few years.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He’s an idiot and the MSM know how to play an idiot. Lucky for them the idiot continues to perform like an IMBECILE.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/the-club-means-so-much-to-so-many-this-is-still-rangers-football-club-as-ibrox-legends-say-club-has-retained-history-1-2679538
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/lithuanian-can-be-the-saviour-of-hearts-says-elliot.19610213
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/nuances-blurred-but-feelings-are-strong-as-ever.19616595
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/spl-clubs-praise-celtic-even-without-cash-windfall.1354817965
‘Walter’
======
I asked the question yesterday about the whereabouts of Sir Walter, and why he was not helping Charlie to manage the latest TRFC PR gaffe.
Perhaps he should have stayed retired…
==================================
…He said:
“Dundee United were fairly vociferous against Rangers last summer.
So I don’t think any club can be expected to accept the kind of criticism that was coming from United and not have a reaction to it.
Rangers are right to boycott — and that comes from a man who was 20 years at Tannadice.
The whole situation has left a bitter taste in everybody’s mouth from a Rangers point of view — and it is not good for Scottish football…
But we felt we had to show we remembered what happened…
Charles just wants to tap into my experience to help Rangers move forward.” 🙄
==================================
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4685241/I-had-20-great-years-with-United-but-they-played-a-part-in-sinking-Rangers-and-that-cant-be-forgiven.html
So. Where and when do the boycotts stop? Can they be allowed to play in ANY new SPL set up? They said they will not play in the SPL so where does this leave the SPL/SFA/SFL. It seems to me that if we follow their thought process to its natural conclusion Sevco will be in a league of their own. Literally.
I can’t believe Kenny Shiels is doing this for any other reason than to show up the Scottish football authorities for what they are, namely, a biased, corrupt, tainted and compromised organisation.
Killie simply want the rules to not be implemented in the exact same way, (with fear and favour), that they have not been implemented with Rangers(IL)/Sevco.
Shiels isn’t being obtuse, he is being rather witty.
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says: Friday, December 7, 2012 at 00:21
“Rangers men seem always certain on the rules but when it comes to the principles and moral values such rules were intended to convey, they appear to have lost their way.”
That sums it up exactly. How can they find their way back? They, including associates in SFA, SPL. SFL, UEFA etc., need to start with an admission that they’ve misread the map at some point, and go from there. I believe the rest of football is ready to accept that.
doontheslope says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 08:42
Ah! I knew it! It’s The Rangers and SFA to blame. Even when it was Kenny Shiels, I knew it was them.
Mark Hately explains a complex business notion to Charles Green after Green’s statement during the summer that if the CVA fails – which it did – Rangers would no longer exist.
“When he (Green) first arrived then I think he said alot of things he probably regrets and that will be one of them. When you get an outside party coming in who doesnt know what the football club is all about then its all new. That inexperience of coming into a huge institution is understandable, but there is a realisation of what Rangers Football Club is all about now.”
Mark will be appearing at Strathclyde University on Saturday evening where he will give a lecture on Thermo-Nuclear physics, entitled “Higgs Bosman is like a new signing.”
willmacufree says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 09.09
Auldheid (@Auldheid) says: Friday, December 7, 2012 at 00:21
“Rangers men seem always certain on the rules but when it comes to the principles and moral values such rules were intended to convey, they appear to have lost their way.”
That sums it up exactly. How can they find their way back? They, including associates in SFA, SPL. SFL, UEFA etc., need to start with an admission that they’ve misread the map at some point, and go from there. I believe the rest of football is ready to accept that.
====================================================================
this “GET BACK” guff sticks in my craw.
all these people, hateley, sir cardigan, chuckles et al – saying they want to “get BACK”
they have never BEEN anywhere other than sfl div 3, as they are a new team, allowed in via a temporary licence (which isn’t in any of the rules), then for some unknown reason, was “converted” to a proper licence.
the rangers are a new team. the sooner these clowns realise that then they can “move on”.
if they want to Not be a new team, they can tell the world via BDO, that they WILL pay ALL the debts that rangers football club racked up and don’t want to have to pay.
Chuckles will be sobbing into his cornflakes this morning 🙁 His club has only been valued at 50million (APPARENTLY) 🙁 That is some loss already poor sevco 🙁 it was only a few weeks ago chuckles stated on TV and other outlets of the MSM that he had Ibrox alone independently valued at 80 million 😉
Chuckles will be sobbing into his cornflakes this morning 🙁 His club has only been valued at 50million (APPARENTLY) That is some loss already. Poor sevco 🙁 it was only a few weeks ago chuckles stated on TV and other outlets of the MSM that he had Ibrox alone independently valued at 80 million 😉
Night Terror
The SFA:
“Biased” – They have thrown teams out of the Scottish Cup for paperwork which wasn’t filled in correctly. They have not applied the rules with the same vigour to Rangers(IL)/Sevco. Do you disagree with that?
“Corrupt” – Turnbull Hutton’s accusation which went unchallenged and unpunished by the SFA. Do you disagree with that?
“Tainted” – They have a chairman who was 27 years at Rangers and who was the recipient of an EBT and who has publicly admitted that he has not done his job for the last six months, (thus enabling a team with no accounts into Scottish football even when Uefa wouldn’t allow them into European football.) Would you disagree with that?
“Compromised” – I’d say the five way agreement and a chairman who publicly admits that he is conflicted, means that the organisation is utterly compromised. Would you disagree with that?
I am assuming that Kenny Shiels is an intelligent man and that his motive for stating that he will play a suspended player is not to throw away three league points.
I do agree, though, the SFA and The Rangers are not totally to blame. The SFA, The Rangers and the Scottish MSM are to blame. Sorry for leaving out the MSM.
I see there’s still nothing on the SFA website about yesterdays board meeting regarding the latest fiasco.
WTF is the world’s greatest administrator playing at?
He cannot be conflicted as the board meeting was about the Sevco CEO and NOT oldco.
Is CO the bride of Chuckie?
We shouldn’t be shocked by Mr Smith’s comments. His attitude is simply confirmation of his Rangers credentials and illustrates a malaise in our game which goes far beyond the current spat between the club playing out of Ibrox and my “diddy team”. I’m afraid far too many of our players, coaches, and administrators have an affiliation for one of the large Glasgow clubs which far outweighs their devotion to a smaller club with which they have had links. In spite of his 20 years at Tannadice, the place where he learnt the game and how to coach, he was always a Rangers man at heart. When the call came, he, unlike his mentor Jim McLean, was unable to resist and the rest, as they say, is history. His affiliation to United ebbed away very quickly from that point.
I am minded when reading his comments today of a testimonial dinner some years back for one of United’s championship winning legends at which the same Mr Smith was asked to attend and speak. Slightly the worse for wear when he rose to deliver his speech, his affinities came clearly to the fore as he proceeded to complain that United didn’t try nearly as hard against Celtic as they did against Rangers. Coming at a time when United’s results at Celtic were very good when compared to their inability to get a result at Ibrox, this diatribe felt rather hollow. The implication was quite clear; we should be doing all we could to assist Rangers in their aim of dominating the game. Not much sign of a love for our club despite his achievements whilst employed at Tannadice.
His latest reported mutterings are a continuation of what commenced that evening and the rationale is quite clear. No one can criticise The Rangers, no one can stand in the way of The Rangers progress, Scottish football is The Rangers. Any club which does not comply will be a target for their bully boy tactics until they get their way………and the SFA will do………nothing!
Senior says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 22.42
You were having a laugh…Right?
stunney on Friday, December 7, 2012 at 03:55
6 0 Rate This
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/nuances-blurred-but-feelings-are-strong-as-ever.19616595
********
How thick are these people?
Four men “had a dream” and started a football club in the same way that you or I might start a Sunday league team. At that point in time, it was an unincorporated association just like your Sunday League team. In line with standard business practice and regulations, when the club became big enough, it incorporated as a limited liability company (principally to protect the directors and enable it to issue shares to allow it to grow further). In later years, it became a plc to allow shares to be traded on open market and (ostensibly) to allow it to grow further. In 2012, that same club went into administration and is being liquidated as no CVA could be agreed to allow it to continue in existence.
It is so simple, it’s O’Grsde Business Studies. I do not expect any Rangers fan to accept this because of their emotional attachment (and general head in the sand attitude) but surely journalists can accept it and present basic facts…
PS: the nuances were so subtle in that article, I missed them. Did anyone get them?
rab says:
Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 20:19
Myself and my family have unanimously decided we will not be reading any more posts by angus1983.
There are certain posters on here who stand up for everything that Charles Green says …
=============================
No hard feelings angus and nothing personal but i wanted to make the point that technically you are right about Greens statement on the boycott but it is saturated in insinuation against D Utd. My family and I will of course be reading all your posts as usual.
——
Not quite sure where you’re ending up there, rab.
I should make it clear that I do NOT stand up for Mr Green in any way. However, it does bear pointing out that what’s insinuated in his statements would not e.g. stand up in a court of law.
Mr Green fingers is adept at sowing seeds and letting others tend the resulting foliage. We all know what the resulting tree looks like but, although he quite deliberately set the roots in place, he can rightly claim lack of responsibility for its phenotype.
Slopy shoulders is what he’s good at.
My concern is that we at TSFM interpret his utterances, and repeat those interpretations until we convince ourselves that that is what he actually said.
Mr Green, as has been shown in the past, then turns round and quite rightly says “I didn’t say that!”. A prime example being his claim that TRFC will never return to the SPL … but if the top League wasn’t called the SPL that would be OK.
He’s a bit of an amateur wordsmith.
Bunion says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 01:04
6 6 i
Rate This
On the issue of Kenny Shiel’s latest outburst, how much media focus do you think Killie would have without Kenny’s gems? Love him or loathe him, he’s the best PR outlet Killie have had for a good few years.
—————————————————————–
Only surely, if “there’s no such thing as bad publicity”. Otherwise they’re getting the kind of publicity they could do without.
“Rangers are right to boycott — and that comes from a man who was 20 years at Tannadice.”
Further to my post above, it seems that Waistcoat is a bit less diplomatic than Green in actually mentioning the word “boycott”. Assuming that this is a direct quote and not just made up by The Sun (as if).
Interesting that, after deploying the “boycott” word, WS then goes on to say that it’s only that TRFC that are not taking tickets, and that fans should feel free to go if they want (unlike Green’s line that DUFC should not sell to any TRFC fan).
“But all Rangers are saying is they are not taking tickets.
“If a supporter feels he has not missed a game for ten years and does not want to miss this one, he is free to make his own decision.”
Notable also that Waistcoat is not actually on the Board yet – only after the share issue, according to the Soaraway. (Was he not mentioned as a Board member in that document the other day?).
corsicacharity says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 10:14
stunney on Friday, December 7, 2012 at 03:55
6 0 Rate This
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/nuances-blurred-but-feelings-are-strong-as-ever.19616595
********
How thick are these people?
Four men “had a dream” and started a football club in the same way that you or I might start a Sunday league team. At that point in time, it was an unincorporated association just like your Sunday League team. In line with standard business practice and regulations, when the club became big enough, it incorporated as a limited liability company (principally to protect the directors and enable it to issue shares to allow it to grow further). In later years, it became a plc to allow shares to be traded on open market and (ostensibly) to allow it to grow further. In 2012, that same club went into administration and is being liquidated as no CVA could be agreed to allow it to continue in existence.
It is so simple, it’s O’Grsde Business Studies. I do not expect any Rangers fan to accept this because of their emotional attachment (and general head in the sand attitude) but surely journalists can accept it and present basic facts…
===================================================================
possibly the best post ever CC !!!!
There’s a good comment on the Herald story which starts off like a regular TRFC nonsense post, but has a nice sting in the tail. Still trying to figure out which side of the fence the guy is on!
Should confuse the blighters, anyway. 🙂
RE: Kenny Shiels,
He was merely winding up a young and gulible* STV reporter. A wee festive joke, as it were.
Kenny does actually have a keen sense of humour. He certainly fooled a few on here as well.
* Contrary to what some Smart Alecs think, this is the correct spelling of “gulible”. Check it in a dictionary if you don’t believe me.
Angus.
It was a tongue in cheek comment. As you will notice i never accused you of standing up for Charles Green though the way i worded it did infer that you did. Exactly the same as Charles Green not blaming D Utd or calling for a boycott but inferring as much.
He may not have stated the words ” i blame D Utd, lets boycott them” but then he also didnt state the words ” its got nothing to do with D Utd, i call on all Trfc fans to attend this match”.
No, he preferred to leave the insinuation that D Utd are to blame, and did ask Trfc fans not to attend.
I was trying ( failing obviously ) to be clever, it honestly was not any kind of personal attack on your views, and i know you dont stand up for everything CG says, which is why i didn’t actually state that you do.
If a club does not want to accept the normal progression, if it wins it’s particular league, (“We will not play in the SPL”) set out for all clubs in the SFA, then it must be excluded forthwith as it actually skews the impact it has in every game it plays in at present, simples no?.
nickmcguinness says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 10:52
0 0 i
RE: Kenny Shiels,
He was merely winding up a young and gulible* STV reporter. A wee festive joke, as it were.
Kenny does actually have a keen sense of humour. He certainly fooled a few on here as well.
===================================================
Nick, good for you in being one of the two (Kenny’s the other) to get it. There is a danger in camouflaging your humour though – most people don’t think what you say is funny or get the underlying point you’re trying to make and start saying what an errse you are. So why bother? You’re obviously on the same wavelength as Kenny – why bother winding up a gullible young reporter?
rab – nae bother, min. I suspected some form of cleverness in your post, and did understand your point really. 🙂
nick – nonsense. “Gullible” is derived from the verb “to gull”, which is derived from “gullet”, all with a double “l”. Hence the meaning of someone who “swallows” (believes) something. 😉
Just heard an advert on the radio
Stating that on Saturday They are “Celebrating 140 years of proud history at IBROX ”
No mention of 140 years of of Rangers history !
Great wording by the pr guys/girls Wouldn’t want to imply they are doing something or Are something they are NOT!(Glasgow rangers, a continuation of Rangers or even worse THE SAME CLUB!) the advertising agency would be all over them like a rash Amongst others may i add 😉
angus1983 says:
Friday, December 7, 2012 at 10:37
…………………………….
When the comments where taken as meaning Boycott…and discussed as such in papers and social media…Charlie never at any point issued a correction or clarification…to his comments.
The Cardigan has now confirmed what we had pointed towards…a boycott!
From top to bottom it is now clear TRFC are now running a vendetta against fellow Scottish clubs and using lies to justify it.
The Cardigan suggesting Dundee Utd were partly to blame for their downfall is at best reckless…DAVID MURRAY AND CRAIG WHYTE ARE THE ONLY ONES RESPONSIBLE!
The Cardigan fully understands that the personal safety of individuals at Dundee United will now be at risk from unstable elements within their support…
It is now clear the club is infested from top to bottom with anyone allowed, encouraged and supported in attacking anyone and everyone within Scottish football
Lets not forget…Campbell Ogilvies EBT can be called in at anytime…so don’t expect any negative decisions to be taken against Charlie or The Cardigan…for their attacks on Dundee United..
The monster is now growing arms and legs and there appears no one willing or able to stand up to this MOB!