The Real Battle Begins?

The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’  had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.

The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.

I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.

However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.

We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.

We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.

We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.

Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.

Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.

If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.

We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?

TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.

Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).

If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.

But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.

The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.

As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.

For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.

We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.

One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.

The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.

By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.

We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.

Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.

This entry was posted in General by Trisidium. Bookmark the permalink.
Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,018 thoughts on “The Real Battle Begins?


  1. We have already seen an exciting local derby featuring Inverness and Ross County and another great fixture awaits tomorrow when Dundee play hosts to Dundee Utd. Tickets have sold like hot cakes so full house all but guaranteed. Best wishes to the players, management and fans of both clubs. The winner will be presented with the Armageddon Cup at full time.


  2. john clarke says:

    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 19:39

    “Tom English had it right tonight, when he bravely observed that he had noticed in recent times that Traynor had begun very pointedly to defend SDM.

    English did not, of course ( he’s not that brave|!) make any assertion that Traynor had already been promised something more from CG than the succulent lamb he salivated over at SDM’s dinner-table.

    I make no such assertion, either, for to do so might be construed as defamatory, unless, of course, the assertion was true.

    Far be it from me even to hint, however obliquely, that I think that it could possibly not be untrue.”

    ———————————————————————————————————————————-Hey amigo !…..por caritas !…. it took me a sip or two of the warm south to decipher that … I awas wandering about the world of “known unknowns” and “unknown knowns ” and ” I can only say that I mis-remembered that statement ”

    Are you in fact mentally limbering up secretely for the UTC appeal and the LNS hearing …………………”well when people talk to me about side letters I expect to see…ye know …bits o’paper ..Well we had nothing like that at Ibrox …especially after the Shreddeing Company had done it’s duty and a’ the computers were traded

    Regards


  3. I think we should all applaud Jim Traynor’s decision to come out. It must be a relief not to have to live a lie anymore. We can now ignore him and turn our attention to important matters affecting Scottish fitbaw.


  4. On The Rangers Prospectus….

    How long does ot take to build a side capable of earning the CL top dolllar AFTER that side has been bought?

    When it says wage competitive do they mean with Celtic or just the rest?

    I cannot see how that can be done if wages are restricted to 33% of non CL income whilst Celtic already have a well developed team and business and likliehood of CL money.

    It could be 2018 at best before a title winning team is possible which is a while to get a return on any investment although Ticketus if still involved will be happy to get their sunk money back from ticket sales.

    Thus the greatest risk to their vision of being a top team is Celtic and call me paranoid but this worries me given the degree to which rules have been ignored by SFA to give The Rangers an opportunity to recover.

    It is simply an attempt by football to recreate the model that collapsed causing angst to everyone during the 3 years of Rangers title wins and then what happened after the collapse.

    Steps have to be taken to reasure supporters of all clubs that no favours are being done to provide any unfair advantage simply to remove the suspicion of non The Rangers supporters that skullduggery is still not alive and well and operating from a twin Ibrox and Hampden axis.

    Ensuring sporting integrity is paramount and real transparency and accountability has to be introduced at SFA involving supporters of all clubs.

    The 64m$ question is how big a gate will The Rangers get once in the top league if they are perpetual second fiddlers.

    The emotional supporters are assured but what about the glory hunters?
    That is not to say a competitive team cannot be built on lower wage ( Celtic in CL) but the prospectus should be clearer that this is about saving The Rangers not returning it to a former unsustainable and unearned (they did not pay their way) glory.


  5. essexbeancounter says:
    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 20:50
    I have just returned from a day out with a former City stockbroker and I showed him the “prospectus”…and I have never seen him laugh so much in all the years I have known him.
    “…and you Scots are supposed to be canny…who on earth will put a penny into this fairy tale?” was his final remark.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    ebc
    totally agree
    The RIFC floatation might attract money launderers looking to funnel dollars or rands into the UK. But it is most unlikely to raise anything from professional investment cos or pension funds
    These guys look for capital gains from a rising share price and/or the prospect of solid dividends
    So
    What happens if the floatation only raises £3m or £4m from the gullible?
    When Minty floated £50m of shares the idea was to wipe out £50m of RFC debt owed to MIM
    His floatation raised around £5m so Minty had to fund the other £45m of shares himself by writing off £45m of RFC debt in MIM books
    In effect Minty was the underwriter or “guarantor” for his own floatation
    So is the Green consortium the underwriter for the RIFC floatation?
    If so the consortium would be obliged to put up the balance of money needed to purchase unsold shares. Alternatively these shares are withdrawn from sale and RIFC needs to operate the business on whatever money it raised. The latter option assumes funding the last 3months by stiffing Creditors from the day after the fundraising
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    It appears from the Prospectus that around £7m of Share Issue income is needed simply to pay wages etc. until the end of the season
    For a normal business this would result in a bank overdraft of £7m on which interest has to be paid
    However RIFC don`t have a Bank willing to give them an overdraft
    So RIFC could be dead in the water if this share issue flops badly. All its assets including TRFC would soon need to be sold off to raise money for the Creditors
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Sounds familiar ……………but it isn`t

    This time round we would have the equivalent of MIM going bust forcing it to sell one of its assets .i.e. RFC
    Perhaps this is the real plan whereby the gullible are blamed for Administration of RIFC in Jan 2013 followed by sale of TRFC

    The irony is this ……looking back at the Minty flotation flop

    The Club Deck investors were “Preferential”Shareholders in RFC and therefore Creditors in an RFC liquidation
    But
    Any Bears who invest in this share issue will get nothing back if RIFC get liquidated before they run out of cash. In this scenario the gullible might expect their holding in RIFC to somehow survive liquidation of RIFC and simply morph into the equivalent shareholding in the ethereal club called “TRFC”
    That’s not how it works.
    Their stake in RIFC may have been made from an emotional attachment to TRFC
    But it is the equivalent of a financial stake in MIM in the days when it owned RFC
    It is NOT a stake in TRFC
    In a liquidation of RIFC any share issue investors will be ordinary shareholders entitled to nothing.
    Any income from the sale of RIFC would go to the Creditors of RIFC
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    This scenario probably explains why this mad proposition to float a Co on AIM is being launched one week before Xmas. The worst probable date of the year

    It is because they want it to fail


  6. I’ve just blogged on my own site on an unrelated matter about the 10 D’s. It struck me that they were all relevant here so if nobody minds here’s a copy and paste below:

    Deflect: ”Deflection happens when your opponents try to shift the focus of the debate from the real problem to other issues, or when they try to “pass the buck” to a group with little or no authority” Lets talk about graffiti or playgrounds named 11 years ago, anything but “Flegs”
    Delay: Form a committee, announce an inquiry, anything but make a decision.
    Deny: The problem simply doesn’t exist!!!! Simples
    Discount: OK there is a problem but it’s not important
    Deceive: Mislead or confuse by lying or by “forgetting” to tell the whole story
    Divide: Identify differences between your opponents, maximise them, exploit them, forment division. “Divide and conquer”
    Dulcify: Appease your opposition with small meaningless concessions, this will help to divide them also
    Discredit: Call motives, methods, morals and motivations into question.
    Destroy: Attack on a personal level, hold no bars and go for a swift decisive victory.
    Deal: If you are losing, make a fekin deal before you are destroyed !


  7. olemungobhoy says:
    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 22:22

    ‘ it took me a sip or two of the warm south..’

    ” oh for a draught of vintage…….Full of the true, the blushful Hippocrene..”

    I have to make do with Tennent’s 70, I’m afraid.

    I got myself tied up in double negatives, doubly redoubled, maybe.

    Sorry about that, but got to avoid an SDM -style bampot-witch-hunt! 🙂


  8. Ticketus sue Craig Whyte for £27m. TRFC who, are apparently cash rich with no external debt, attempt to raise £27m.

    Not suggesting any link between the two but one helluva unfortunate coincidence don’t you think 😀


  9. T’ Rangers announcement of their new Communications Director is notable in that it specifically mentions the new incumbent will work closely with their PR advisers, Media House.

    No change there then.

    Seriously though, for me, the appointment seems like the most spectacular compromise of his professional principals imaginable, meaning that the much lamented ‘integrity’ question should be raised, particularly in light of some of his most recent – questionable – offerings.

    Jock Brown looks prudent in comparison.


  10. essexbeancounter says:
    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 20:50
    ‘I have just returned from a day out with a former City stockbroker and I showed him the “prospectus”…and I have never seen him laugh so much in all the years I have known him..’

    One wonders at Cenkos Securities lending their name to such an abomination of a prospectus!
    Are they to the financial world the equivalents of our ‘presstitutes ‘ are to the world of journalism? Turn any trick for a few shekels?


  11. I think you’re all doing Traynor a dis-service. I think it was just a great misunderstanding, in that he just asked for a yorkshire pudding to go with his succulent lamb (with hilarious consequences etc.)

    On a more serious note, I think it’s becoming clear that the seige mentality is so well established that nothing said on here or anywhere else will make the slightest difference to the uptake of the share issue…… so cue a year or two down the line when the Sevco fans are blamig the SFA for not investigating whether Mr Green was a ‘fit and proper person’.


  12. areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:

    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 23:48

    The Germans had a term for it “Dolchstoblegende” = stabbed in the back. It was a myth that the Nazis used for thier own aims and created the conditions for WW2.


  13. ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 20:52
    —-
    In the words of Dr Maturin ( in Patrick O’Brian’s novels), ” never in life” would I equate the general run of political journalists ( Orla Guerin, Alex Thomson, and Eddie Mair of the BBC radio, etc) with the likes of what we have had to put up with in ‘ West of Scotland’ football journalism generally ( with occasional, honourable exceptions).
    ( Incidental wee Question: how are football matters reported in what used to be referred to as the ‘provincial press’? It’s been a long time time since I bought the ‘Press and Journal’ or ‘Dundee Courier’!)

    Rather,Indeed, I think that the very high moral ground that proper journalists occupy is the standard by which I, at least, measure ANY journalist- sports reporter, gardening reporter, local court reporter, local government reporter or whatever.

    Any who fall short of that standard is not a journalist, but a propagandist, who is by definition one-sided and therefore not to be taken either as necessarily accurate or truthful .


  14. Does anyone need to underwrite this share issue?
    If I remember correctly, did Chuckie not promise to make up any shortfall in the share issue?


  15. john clarke says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 00:07

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of non-sports journalists, some thought of as extremely distinguished, who believe it’s more important to get across some point (an ’emotional truth’) than the absolute truth. Robert Fisk is probably the most obvious proponent of this (by his own admission). Sadly, this seems to be becoming more and more acceptable in the press, rather than being correctly labelled ‘propaganda’.


  16. Briggsbhoy @ 11.21

    Unless you’re talking cricket, in which the team that’s in sends two batsmen out, and they are in, until one of them is out, when (s)he comes back in, and another one goes out to replace him (her). The person who has just gone out is then in, and stays there until out, when (s)he comes back in to be replaced by another (copyright I can’t remember who).

    And so it goes. It’s a simple game. Didn’t Regan or Doncaster come from a cricketing background?


  17. john clarke says:

    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 23:22

    olemungobhoy says:
    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 22:22

    ‘ it took me a sip or two of the warm south..’

    ” oh for a draught of vintage…….Full of the true, the blushful Hippocrene..”

    I have to make do with Tennent’s 70, I’m afraid.

    ————————————————————————————————————–
    No probs …. as a callow yuff it used to puzzle me when The Consul or Wee Hank uttered similarly on thei first sip of Draught Bass ………after school hours oeuf corse ..LOL


  18. I see from the prospectus that RIFC have the most overpaid manager in the Scottish football. So Sally earned £175K in basic pay over the three month period to the end of August. That is £700K a year plus bonuses, for getting out the SFL, winning the treble 🙂 , getting into the CL group stages 😀 etc……. and all on a rolling 12 month contract.

    It also looks like a number of board members and key employees get a nice litttle bonus of £50K worth of shares on admission to AIM, including Chuckles, Waldo and Sally.


  19. Just a thought that occurred to me:
    If I was a businessman, theoretically,
    And I was floating a business, theoretically
    I would require a good communications expert I imagine, theoretically
    The last thing I might do would be to employ a discredited hack? theoretically
    Particularly a hack who is so discredited that every word they may say would be viewed in the light of their previous history, theoretically
    In other words my message would be viewed through the lens of the person delivering it, theoretically
    Therefore all messages I want delivered in the future would be automatically prejudiced, theoretically
    I might sack myself if I did that. theoretically


  20. areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 00:21
    ‘..Unfortunately, there are a lot of non-sports journalists, some thought of as extremely distinguished, who believe it’s more important to get across some point (an ‘emotional truth’) than the absolute truth..’

    I know.

    We are seeing quite a lot of that in the ‘debate’ about Scottish national independence.

    Me, masel, personally like, would never use a word like ‘quisling’ in talking about , say, Michael Kelly or Brian Wilson, regardless of the fact that they themselves are great exponents of ’emotional truth’.

    But that’s maybe going a bit OT.

    Your point is well made, but at least Fisk is open about his readiness to ‘lie’ for the sake of a ‘truth’.

    Others are more duplicitous.


  21. martybhoy says:
    Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 22:10
    8 1 Rate This
    Proper football fan…..unlike Shawwwwn Connery ey?
    ————–

    I refussh to hear a bad word shpoken about our very own ‘Shaken-not-Shtirred’ Shir Shawn. I’m not shure which sheat he shat in at which football shtadium during hish lasht vishit to Old Caledonia, but shurley shomeone who shupports Shcottish football is to be welcomed, even if he is a shelebrity 🙂


  22. Danish Pastry says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 08:08

    Woooof, remind me never to sit in a seat just vacated by Mr Connery!


  23. TRFC, Traynor. TSFM, SFA, SPL,SFL, are ye all takin the p1sh,,,,


  24. Billy Dodds showing his media skills by rewriting history – apparently there was a punishment handed out to the new club….

    You can see Rangers’ side of it, of course you can. To be demoted three divisions must have felt like such a harsh punishment. You have to be sympathetic to what the Rangers fans have been through – I would be sympathetic to any fans who had to see their club go through that – but it seems this is just tit-for-tat stuff and it’s the last thing the game needs

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/boycotts-bad-news-for-game.19626314


  25. I’m sorry – but sevco/rangers and all that cr@p is the least of scottish foootbal problems… who cares if they do or don’t scrape through this season the real issue is NOT ranger or traynor it is the SFA/SFL/SPL leadership. the recent DUFC fiasco highlights this…. they are all fekwits.,, and should be removed…. but what do i know….


  26. bayviewgold says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 08:35
    0 0 Rate This
    I’m sorry – but sevco/rangers and all that cr@p is the least of scottish foootbal problems… who cares if they do or don’t scrape through this season the real issue is NOT ranger or traynor it is the SFA/SFL/SPL leadership. the recent DUFC fiasco highlights this…. they are all fekwits.,, and should be removed…. but what do i know….
    ————

    I expect they are all paid a pretty penny for their leadership skills bayview. Not one them appears to have these skills, however. Perhaps Mr Campbell Ogilvie should be the first eviction? If he did go he could perhaps find a vacant post in Mr Green’s presidium?


  27. Tom English gives a fleeting mention to death threats issued by Rangers(IL)/Sevco fans, and only does so with regard to how Charles Green is to be lauded for turning that situation around. ie he doesnt get death threats any more.

    Is this the same ‘journalist’ who called for Anthony Stokes’ head on a plate last Sunday on account of the company he keeps when he returns home to Dublin?

    In 2012, in a country which is about to decide its political, economic and social future, death threats, violence and mob rule hardly warrant a mention and the ‘alleged’ owner of an ‘alleged’ Scottish institution, pandering to men of violence – even visiting them in their Belfast den and promising them certain coloured strips and certain flags to be flown over Ibrox – just gets glossed over without critical comment. In fact, Green is to be commended for this?

    Traynor may be an arse, but you Mr English, are a hypocrite!


  28. Billy Dodds…

    RANGERS fans say they will boycott their William Hill Scottish
    Cup tie at Dundee United but can you imagine if supporters did
    this every time two chairmen argued about something?

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/boycotts-bad-news-for-game.19626314

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This isn’t about two Chairman bickering. This is about two groups of fans. The first group is made up of those that banded together in the pursuit of justice and the defence of integrity for the whole of Scottish football. The other is a group of fans that support two clubs (one deceased and the other which was, quite incredibly, given entry to join SFL3)

    note to Billy Dodds;
    no club has EVER been demoted from the SPL to SFL3.
    Rangers have not been treated harshly. That Rangers got into so much financial trouble that it could not meet its liabilities, entered administration, failed to agree a CVA and ultimately died, was entirely down to the actions of its custodians.
    Its replacement club was then denied entry to the SPL, which was entirely the correct and proper decision. It was not demoted from the SPL because it was never in the SPL. That it was ultimately allowed to circumvent rules and regulations to get a foot up into SFL3 was a compromise that was deeply unfair on more deserving clubs that had been seeking to join the SFL for some considerable time.

    Billy Dodds (and others) have talked about drawing a line and moving on. The opportunity for that came with the above compromise. The majority of Scottish football fans had voiced their opinion and, for once, the chairmen and authorities listened. The Rangers FC was correctly denied entry to the SPL and SFL1. The Rangers FC should not have been given entry to the SFL at all, but a compromise was made and they joined SFL3.

    Where in any of that were either Rangers or The Rangers treated harshly?

    They have in fact been treated leniently.

    Although Lord Nimmo-Smith may still have something to say about the old club


  29. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 00:10

    Does anyone need to underwrite this share issue?
    If I remember correctly, did Chuckie not promise to make up any shortfall in the share issue?
    —————————————————————————————————

    The Prospectus states the share issue is not underwritten and chuck did make that promise.


  30. Morning all.
    Catching up with the Prospectus.
    Firstly,CG admits that RFC died.he then,however goes on to explain how the club has(not had) 140 years history,trophies,leagues won etc.Mixed message there
    Secondly,he admits to some football debts still outstanding although he agreed to pay up as a condition of joining the league.
    Thirdly,although he accepted liability for any football sanctions,he states that he doesn’t recognise the LNS tribunal and won’t be bound by any decision arrived at.

    The last 2 points should be enough to trigger action by the SFA but we know that won’t happen.

    Also,yesterdays revelation that 67 players are taking RFC to a tribunal,I assume for wages due got me thinking.
    If the players win their case would any sums awarded be classed as a football debt and if so would newco be liable,as per the SFA agreement?.


  31. From the Daily Record on 1st November 2012.

    End of an era as Oldco Rangers go into liquidation

    THE curtain came down on 140 years of history yesterday as
    Oldco Rangers were formally liquidated at the Court of Session in Edinburgh.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/oldco-rangers-go-into-liquidation-1411106

    at a time when JAMES TRAYNOR was Associate Editor, Sport, of the Daily Record who is recognised as the one of the most influential voices in Scottish football. As well as breaking major exclusives and giving his forthright views on the game, Jim presented Radio Scotland’s Your Call and Paper Talk shows and also appeared on Sportsound.


  32. ecobhoy says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 10:17
    ‘On the Provincial side I don’t know how things are now but historically you would have a local boy, probably a club supporter, working for the local paper with local advertising. They may have known everything that was happening but rock the boat? What used to happen is they would sell the story to one of the Sundays….’

    Thank you for that,ecobhoy, although what you say is a bit depressing!


  33. So disappointed in Stuart Cosgrove on radio just now.

    Apparently his buddy Traynor challenged him with ‘Right you, if channel 4 offered you payment by EBT, would you take it?’ To which SC says he definitely would, and he could see where JT was coming from, etc, etc.

    Come on now Stuart! It’s a terrible analogy to begin with from the ‘Airdrie fan.’
    Rangers (IL) (innocent Lambs) use of EBTs affected so, so many people, football clubs, and has so many ‘ripple effects’ that it is impossible to calculate the damage done in so many ways by them.

    Please, don’t insult our intelligence with such guff again! You can do a LOT better than that,
    and usually do. Come on now, don’t do an Uncle Tom English on us now. He’s got mair faces than the toon clock!


  34. Traynor changes job the same week as the Dandy has its last print,I think we should be told.


  35. provan wishing traynor well 😉

    joseph budd ‏@bbjknowsbest
    @celticrumours I see Davy Provans not a fan of succulent lamb then! pic.twitter.com/FZglhc1N
    Retweeted by Celtic Underground
    Hide photo Reply Retweet Favorite More


  36. yakutsuki says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 11:34

    So disappointed in Stuart Cosgrove on radio just now.

    Apparently his buddy Traynor challenged him with ‘Right you, if channel 4 offered you payment by EBT, would you take it?
    _____________________

    The point is though that the rangers EBTs came with side letters that put players registrations in jeopardy and were not revealed to the SFA or the tax authority.


  37. yakutsuki says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 11:34

    So disappointed in Stuart Cosgrove on radio just now.

    Apparently his buddy Traynor challenged him with ‘Right you, if channel 4 offered you payment by EBT, would you take it?

    ===================================================

    doesn’t make it morally correct or (as proven in at least 5 cases of RFC) legal

    indeed, if anything it shows that a financial incentive will encourage people to make morally/legally dodgy decisions – the impact is these individuals have a liability to repay loans, their employer has a tax liability, HMRC have gone without tax to fund the country (in a recession) and fans hard earned money has been wasted as leagues/cups/trophies are overturned

    i await the UTT appeal to establish if the others were legal or not – after all, it’s under appeal, we can’t say anyone is innocent or guilty yet – isn’t that the “party line”


  38. john clarke says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 11:03

    Thank you for that,ecobhoy, although what you say is a bit depressing!
    ————————————————————————————————–

    I actually see it as extremely hopeful because it recognises the dying reality of the print industry and leaves the door wide-open for the bampots, driven by a variety of reasons, including a burning desire to seek the truth and spread it as widely as possible.

    The medium isn’t important – it’s the message.

    But what is needed is some kind of basic training for the internet clatterers on how to actually base their claims on fact and not just wishful thinking or even delusion. It’s also important to learn how to get the ‘message’ across without falling foul of the law, especially in defamation.

    We also have to remember that every person has individual rights so that if you decide to ‘attack’ them, their principles or actions then you usually have to show that there is a wider and genuine Public Interest. If you can’t but still go ahead you may become no better than the Old Regime such as Traynor.

    Although some things will be personal and individual which doesn’t rule them out – taking a current issue: The situation where a neighbour cuts-off light and views of another neighbour with 60ft hedges. But be careful because there are often hidden reasons and if you actually investigate you may find the reason for growing the hedge in the first place was in response to previous misdeeds by the now ‘innocent’ neighbour.

    If a story look simple and totally one-sided then you are probably missing something so keep digging.

    If I was younger I would set up an online Bampots College before academia sees another money-making opportunity for putting bums on seats to fill useless degree courses and keep lecturers in work churning out students with useless bits of paper. In recent years I have come to realise, at first hand, just how true the saying is: Those who can-do Do and those who can’t TEACH.

    But I do agree that there are many inpirational teachers out there but not that many so perhaps journalism isn’t that different from most other jobs or professions at the end of the day. It’s just that the inadequacies of many of the employees are on public show as opposed to hidden.


  39. willmacufree says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 00:31

    Totally stumped 🙂
    It’s the hokey kokey and jiggery pokery at Ibrox


  40. jimlarkin

    Your profile picture looks awfully like mine we must be related 🙂


  41. .
    Rather interesting, if slightly off topic, debate on journalistic ethics by john clarke, echobhoy and others.
    Claud Cockburn, the radical journalist, admitted in later life that he made up most of his ‘front line’ stories during the Spanish Civil to enhance the cause of the Republican Left. In most cases, he added, he had not even been near the front line. It caused a storm at the time. Some on Cockburn’s side took the line that to have done otherwise, i.e. telling the unvarnished truth, no matter how unpalatable, would have being ‘playing into the hands of the enemy’. Others took the view that Cockburn’s writings were, with hindsight, diminished and were nothing less than works of blatant propaganda – regardless of the rights of the cause.
    Cockburn said:
    “The hired journalist, I thought, ought to realize that he is partly in the entertainment business and partly in the advertising business – advertising either goods, or a cause, or a government. He just has to make up his mind whom he wants to entertain, and what he wants to advertise.”
    Something to think about when discussing journalistic ethics and before we jump to take the moral high ground (although I must admit the use of the word ‘journalist’ is stretching a point when referring to our sports hacks in the MSM)


  42. regarding the “boycott” debacle…

    it surely couldn’t be because dundee united were, many many moons ago, known as dundee hibs…

    surely it couldn’t be that…

    could it…


  43. Billy Dodds in the Herald;

    ‘Now people are digging up everything that has gone on between the clubs, such as United’s unwillingness to sell David Goodwillie to Rangers.’

    Honestly! I despair. So Dundee Utd are somehow compelled to ‘sell’ their prize asset to Rangers, why? Apart from anything else Rangers had no intention of paying Dundee Utd one brown penny for David Goodwillie, as they did not pay any bills or debts under Googlie’s control. Blackburn Rovers blew RFC’s bid out of the water, yet DUFC are being castigated for not accepting a lower bid from Rangers, or £5 per month for the next 1000 years, as RFC’s Goodie bids (18 of them) became increasingly laughable. Talk about a sense of entitlement, if anything DUFC should be angry with RFC and their attempt to STEAL an asset of significant value from another club during a period of fiscal difficulties for every club.


  44. abigboydiditandranaway says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 15:16
    16 3 Rate This
    regarding the “boycott” debacle…

    it surely couldn’t be because dundee united were, many many moons ago, known as dundee hibs…

    surely it couldn’t be that…

    could it…

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    How very dare you! 😉

    I remember the week that Sevco were pressuring for their licence, Chris Graham tweeting that there are 3 reasons why Sevco encountering difficulties, ‘Lawell, Thompson, Petrie’. Now I have racked my brains to think of something that connects these clubs that could be significant…………nope still no idea why Sevco fans would single out these clubs but not others?

    Speaking of Chris, if your reading (we know you do!) unlucky with the media job at Ibrox you put in an impressive application. If its any consolation I have it on good authority you were 4th, after Jim Traynor edged out Leggo at the last minute with Bomber a poor 3rd. Maybe you’re wholesale endorsement of Craig Whyte worked against you……………..wait a minute?


  45. arabest1 says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:10

    Totally agree arabest, as well as trying to cite the replayed game in 2009 as a reason for the boycott. More astonishingly is the SFAs silence in all of this. I would have loved to see Dundee Utd press the SFA to bring T’rangers up for disrepute, looks likes the issue has been brushed aside.
    What is the latest arabest are Utd just selling tickets to their own fans for the ‘away end’?


  46. arabest1 @16:10

    It’s just Dundee United’s turn,

    It is crucial to The Rangers’ attempts to remain relevant that they find ways of keeping themselves ‘tied’ to SPL clubs in the media as much as possible.

    I would imagine they have different scenarios already in place for each club to be used when the opportunity to do so arises.

    There will be two groups. Their bestest ever pals and the sneaky, nasty cowardly rest.

    You are clearly in the latter group.

    Let them decide whether or not they want to turn up for the biggest game in their history so far. Their loss if they don’t.

    Just try to ignore the noise. It will soon pass.


  47. Kilgore Trout says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:34

    To be honest, it could be worse for Utd. They’re getting the TV money for the game, they’re getting the gate money (minus 40%, but that would happen no matter what), and they’re saving on stewarding and police costs, not to mention vandalism and general unpleasantness all round. If Rangers fans picket outside the ground, then that’s a matter for the police, not for Dundee United.

    The only thing I would say to Dundee United is to ask The Rangers to nominate the charity, and they give the money to them directly. Saves any unpleasantness in the long run.


  48. Palacio67 , I have not heard anything, and think DUFC are wisely keeping quiet on this one. IMO United should seek to limit the hype surrounding this game. TRFC fans will want to see this game and United should carefully consider security of the general public and offer any such fans the Fair Play Stand. (geddit?) The rest of the ground should be available for anyone who wants to watch this match, with TRFC donating ‘their’ share of the gate money to charity many fans of other clubs might wish to contribute to such a worthy gesture…………with the added bonus that anyone who does buy a ticket will be certain none of the cash will advantage TRFC, another Green own goal, sooner or later he will pay for his nefarious strategies, probably later. 😉


  49. http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-painting-rangers-as-innocent-defies-reality-1-2682442

    There is no doubt but that the wounds of the summer remain raw and that Rangers’ fans are perfectly entitled to give vent to their feelings by staying away from the grounds of the clubs they feel did them wrong. Surely the club at the very top of that list would be Celtic and it’s legitimate to ask whether Rangers would have taken the same stand had that Cup draw seen them pitted against their great rivals rather than Dundee United. Would a Celtic versus Rangers Cup tie have provoked the same response?

    Why would Celtic SURELY top a list of Clubs that Tribute Act supporters feel have done them wrong?
    Were Celtic not 1 of 10 SPL Clubs that voted against the corruption of the SPL?
    Killie abstained, RFC were scandalously allowed to vote and EVERY other Club voted to refuse a new Frakenstein Monster Club admittance to the top of Scottish football.
    Celtic were one of the least vocal Clubs and like the others simply listened to their supporters.
    What the MSM always leave out of their bast*rdised version of events, is the fact that had this corruption taken place unchallenged by our Clubs, supporters would have walked away in their tens of thousands and stadiums across the country would be pretty much empty right now, the likes of Regan would have learned exactly what Armageddon was.
    So why Mr English, would Celtic FC top a list of Clubs perceived to have wronged Sevco fans?


  50. Kilgore Trout says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:34

    It is crucial to The Rangers’ attempts to remain relevant that they find ways of keeping themselves ‘tied’ to SPL clubs in the media as much as possible.
    ——

    Yes – tied to SPL Clubs in the media – and also staying in the paper in any way they can. Hence the ridiculous celebration of the old, dead ((c) J Traynor) club’s 140th and final year yesterday, as well as Green’s ludicrous, regular statements.

    They need to stay in the news, one way or another.

    Meanwhile, Andrew Smith in SoS has another couple of digs today (if not mentioned already) in his Stramash column.

    Firstly, he notes that Mr Green may be doing the Bears a favour by not letting them out to play at Tannadice – that way, they won’t have to witness a Club From Ibrox failing to reach their 6th consecutive domestic cup semi-final.

    And then he has a pop at Traynor, specifically his recent statement of disgust at lackey journalism in Scotland – comparing it to the “Rangers propaganda” Traynor has been getting printed in the DR for the last 6 months.

    Andrew Smith – keep it up, chap. 🙂


  51. nowoldandgrumpy says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 14:31

    Making friends in division 3?

    @__gally: I see Stirling had a good day out… http://t.co/mH8geiro

    ——

    This, of course, will be all over the papers tomorrow – as it should be.

    No, hang on. No it won’t. What was I thinking.


  52. abigboydiditandranaway says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 15:16

    Wonder who the TDers are??


  53. I’d like to make sure that DUFC don’t lose out on the gate money completely. What’s the best thing to do here, Arabs, and other TFSM-ers? Should we pay to attend the game, giving us a chance to demonstrate against TRFC in our own club colours or is it better to buy something from the DUFC shop?

    A couple of other things….Re Traynor to Ibrox and the RFC* fans’ apparent acceptance of this, having previously thought him anti-Rangers, I reiterate my song choice from a few weeks ago – The Kaiser Chiefs’ We are the angry mob….

    “We are the angry mob
    We read the papers every day
    We like who we like
    We hate who we hate
    But we’re also easily swayed”

    Particular emphasis on the last line. What is it that makes most RFC* fans so changeable? Whyte then; Green now; Traynor forever? I sense a trend!

    Re the prospectus, can any of our learned posters tell me if it is usual for assets to be listed therein (and indeed revalued to for part of income/profits quoted) without any proof that the company actually own those assets? Indeed for the prospectus to actually include a caveat around their inclusion? If not, why is no one asking about this?


  54. ordinaryfan says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:53
    “Why would Celtic SURELY top a list of Clubs that Tribute Act supporters feel have done them wrong?”
    =========================================================
    A shared history of bitter rivalry perhaps? Do you disagree with Tom English that The Rangers fans and Green are picking on an easy target? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?


  55. paulsatim says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:57

    I imagine the TDs are because there are enough “imagined” reasons without Abigboy having to imply that there’s a religious element to it as well.


  56. Blu

    I agree with ordinary fan. Why would Celtic obviously top that list of clubs who “wronged” sevco.

    Despite much heading and calls for Celtic to say something they refused. I would also say Celtic wanted rfc back in to maintain the old firm nonsense.


  57. nawlite says:

    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 17:17

    I imagine the TDs are because there are enough “imagined” reasons without Abigboy having to imply that there’s a religious element to it as well.

    ========================================================================
    nawlite, I would like to think that you’re right but I do wonder why specifically those three clubs are particularly vilified by some Rangers supporters.Unfortunately, I think there may be some substance to abigboydiditandranaway’s paranoia.


  58. One other thing – how about someone phones up SSB or whatever, and asks the pundits what they think SHOULD have happened in the summer?

    Half the problem is that they get away with focusing fully on the supposed sly kicks at Rangers (and even then, they seem unable to actually qualify what these sly kicks actually were – hence the dragging up of an abandoned game at a ground that Rangers fans visited at least 5 times since). This allows them to ignore the alternative. The strategy is wrong. It should be them justifying what should have happened in their opinion, not the other way round.


  59. blu says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 17:13
    0 0 Rate This
    ordinaryfan says:
    Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:53
    “Why would Celtic SURELY top a list of Clubs that Tribute Act supporters feel have done them wrong?”
    =========================================================
    A shared history of bitter rivalry perhaps? Do you disagree with Tom English that The Rangers fans and Green are picking on an easy target? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

    ….

    What shared history? Celtic have never so much as played Sevco in a friendly never mind shared history.
    Where have I even mentioned Green or Sevco fans picking on anyone? I have quoted the part of the article I am questioning, I have not given any opinion on the rest.
    I am simply wondering why Tom English is mentioning Celtic as being the obvious main target of Sevco fans, when Celtic have simply done the same as 10 other SPL Clubs and refused to sit back and allow the SPL to be corrupted, and listened to their supporters wishes in dong so.
    And yes I do disagree with English saying they are picking on an easy target, what makes Dundee Utd any weaker than Inverness, Motherwell or Celtic?


  60. ordinaryfan says: Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:53

    So why Mr English, would Celtic FC top a list of Clubs perceived to have wronged Sevco fans?
    ================================
    I’d refer you to arabest1’s post half an hour earlier

    arabest1 says: Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:21

    I remember the week that Sevco were pressuring for their licence, Chris Graham tweeting that there are 3 reasons why Sevco encountering difficulties, ‘Lawell, Thompson, Petrie’.

    =================================

    I’ve been surprised by the seethe fest among some Celtic minded(?) posters about Tom English. Like him or loathe him, his writings and comments have been much more balanced than many others.

    He did an excellent job on Whyte by alowing him the scope to mutter and lie his way through his time at Ibrox. He had a dig at the media wheeling out Goram time after time, then he had a go at Stokes. Even last night on Sportsound he ripped into Smith and Green. Now today he has targeted TRFC fans and Green for trying to airbrush elements of RFC’s history.

    If you only want a monochrome view of the world, then perhaps you’d prefer that Celtic should hire a Traynor equivalent.


  61. easyjambo: Firstly Chris Graham is about as relevant to Scottish Football as my Dog.
    So I can’t understand why his reference to Lawell, Thompson and Petrie makes it all of a sudden logical. Why those 3? Where did that stem from? What makes their Clubs any different to the other 7? What is the reasoning behind blaming just those 3?


  62. ordinaryfan says: Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 17:35

    easyjambo: Firstly Chris Graham is about as relevant to Scottish Football as my Dog.
    So I can’t understand why his reference to Lawell, Thompson and Petrie makes it all of a sudden logical. Why those 3? Where did that stem from? What makes their Clubs any different to the other 7? What is the reasoning behind blaming just those 3?

    ==========================
    You would have to ask Chris Graham about that, but he strikes me as being the epitome of a TRFC fan in his views and attitude.


  63. arabest1 says: Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:21

    I remember the week that Sevco were pressuring for their licence, Chris Graham tweeting that there are 3 reasons why Sevco encountering difficulties, ‘Lawell, Thompson, Petrie’.
    ===================

    Petrie was not causing Sevco any problems, he was advocating for and advising Green, was he not, from the leaked e-mail.


  64. As easyjambo is pointing out, its not that CG is correct in his tweets, but it is a window on the mindset of your average sevconian. Hence a reason for their singling out of DUFC. I have no idea of Petrie’s role, other than his public utterances which were fairly robust in their condemnation of any club who plays fast and loose with their finances.


  65. easyjambo: I just don’t get where those names come from. Why take anything that man says at face value? What is the thinking behind naming those 3? What about the other 7?
    I’m not saying that those 3 listed by him are not the main focus of Sevco fans abundance of anger, I have no idea what they are thinking, for starters I don’t believe they do themselves.
    They may well view those 3 as main targets, I just don’t know why, and I don’t think they would either. If I was writing in a national newspaper that supporters of one Club would perceive another as a main target for wronging them, I would at least ask the question, why them out of list of ten?

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