The Real Battle Begins?

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The Real Battle Begins?

The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’  had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.

The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.

I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.

However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.

We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.

We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.

We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.

Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.

Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.

If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.

We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?

TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.

Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).

If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.

But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.

The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.

As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.

For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.

We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.

One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.

The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.

By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.

We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.

Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,018 Comments so far

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ordinaryfanPosted on5:57 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Easyjambo: English should have at least pointed out that like the rest of us, he has no idea whatsoever why Celtic would be singled out from the list of ten and that it is complete nonsense and illogical to do so.

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wolvibhoyPosted on6:09 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 17:52
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easyjambo: I just don’t get where those names come from. Why take anything that man says at face value? What is the thinking behind naming those 3? What about the other 7?
I’m not saying that those 3 listed by him are not the main focus of Sevco fans abundance of anger, I have no idea what they are thinking, for starters I don’t believe they do themselves.
They may well view those 3 as main targets, I just don’t know why, and I don’t think they would either. If I was writing in a national newspaper that supporters of one Club would perceive another as a main target for wronging them, I would at least ask the question, why them out of list of ten?
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Let’s not beat around the bush with innuendo and such like. You are hinting that Mr Graham picked these three as the clubs they represent could be classed as a touch fieniany

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easyJamboPosted on6:15 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says: Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 17:57
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I’m sure that it is as simple as the historical rivalry between the two clubs where one set of fans is naturally suspicious of the actions of the other club or its fans. Thus it is not illogical for English to assume that TRFC fans believe (rightly or wrongly) that Celtic’s actions behind the scenes may have influenced the outcome for TRFC in their attempts to stay in the SPL.

Hearts have similar issues with Hibs fans whose claimed knowledge and expertise in all things Hearts suggests that they are more interested in the demise of their rivals than the success of their own team.

It’s the same reason that a disproportionate number of contributors on RTC were Celtic fans.

I’m sure the same thing happens in Manchester or Liverpool too.

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briggsbhoyPosted on6:45 pm - Dec 9, 2012


I have no doubt that if Rangers had drawn any SPL Club or first division club away from home they would have found any excuse to boycott. It wasn’t that long ago that a die hard Rangers man and I mean die hard told me he would never set foot in another SPL or SFL ground because of “how they had treated Rangers, he wouldn’t give them the money”. I agree with Kilgore Trout, it’s “United’s turn”. It would seem at the moment that whatever is happening in SPL or whatever is being celebrated elsewhere Rangers fans with go in the opposite direction and vice versa. Will there ever be a meet in the middle or a compromise! who knows and some may not care. If Rangers fans decided not travel away and boycott every game by the time they reach the top division, what are they bringing to the party? Nothing so why does the league need them?

I personally hope that when the game comes round we get a United win so we don’t have to listen to any other nonsense from Ibrox.

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ordinaryfanPosted on6:48 pm - Dec 9, 2012


briggsbhoy: They have sold out at Inverness and Motherwell this season.

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coineanachantaighePosted on6:51 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 16:53
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No more to this surely than that historically their greatest enemies? (To the more sensible, rivals; to the rest actual enemies – in their heads anyway). So all he’s saying is they are doing this over a minor (alleged) wrong, while they wouldn’t do it if it was the club they’ve hated for a century. And mind you, exactly because it’s that club – they wouldn’t want to mist the chance for a hate-fest.

And the point about them really being Sevco is irrelevant – in their minds they’re still the old Rangers and unfortunately they want to cling onto all the b*****y and hatred of a certain club that goes with along with that.

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coineanachantaighePosted on6:52 pm - Dec 9, 2012


That’s “miss” not “mist”. Though emotion may “mist” the eyesight.

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coineanachantaighePosted on7:02 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 18:48
briggsbhoy: They have sold out at Inverness and Motherwell this season.
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Both these games were at Ibrox. (Both mind you were clubs managed by ex-Rangers managers and one plays in blue – the one that beat them.)

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coineanachantaighePosted on7:04 pm - Dec 9, 2012


C’mon TSFM, let’s have an edit facility! That should be “ex-Rangers players”

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bemused77Posted on7:37 pm - Dec 9, 2012


There was a time when I worked down in London, and you could see tourists getting fleeced on a near daily basis by gangs of “Find the Lady” con artists. The aim of the game is to distract the mug so the cards could be switched, once they had been encouraged to put enough cash down to lose the contents of their wallets. I get the feeling that the CG encouraged “they all hate us”ery is similarly intended to distract from the apparent gaps of uncertainty in the share prospectus for whatever constitutes what could be called dunnoco.

Apparently the highly paid authors of said document are quite content that they are selling a package of uncertain assets, (dunno who actually owns the largest solid assets which may constitute the basis of the company), with uncertainty of the liabilities for asbestos (dunno who has the Asbestos Register – but then it applies to the owners and occupiers of commercial premises – so if you dunno who owns it you may have trouble finding who has this document which is a mere trifling statutory requirement), and there is no certainty that the alleged accounts would be acceptable to an independent auditor (dunno if they are porkies or perchance optimistic in their treatment of tax matters such as the negative goodwill ( http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cirdmanual/cird30535.htm ) – you don’t have to wait until year end to get an auditor’s opinion on any financial statement). Anyroads I’m not sure how often you can use the negative goodwill card trick on an annual basis to cover an otherwise negative cashflow.

So while the bampotery get diverted into whether newco are entitled to get into a delayed strop over a perceived slight to oldco/deedco/whoknowsco, Ringmeister Green makes a break for the bank with the proceeds for the sale of dunnoco – whatever that may constitute.

The above should not be taken as advice on investing in any share prospectus whether real or imaginary in a company whether …….

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ordinaryfanPosted on7:42 pm - Dec 9, 2012


monsieurbunny says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 19:02
1 1 Rate This
ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 18:48
briggsbhoy: They have sold out at Inverness and Motherwell this season.
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Both these games were at Ibrox. (Both mind you were clubs managed by ex-Rangers managers and one plays in blue – the one that beat them.)

……

So Motherwell and Inverness, who both voted to refuse New-Co access to the SPL, with exactly the same input as Dundee Utd, received a big fat cheque from Sevco because of the high attendance of Sevco supporters at these games.
If they were away games, do you think they would have refused to attend? If so, I don’t remember them mentioning that at the time but I could be wrong.

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coineanachantaighePosted on8:01 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 19:42
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I could be wrong too, but I have my doubts that these guys plan these things far ahead or think things through. Do we know that if Dundee Utd were playing them at Ibrox instead of at home they wouldn’t turn up in big numbers to support the team? No we don’t know. It’s all supposition. I think they would have but as you say “I could be wrong”.

Maybe the fact that long ago, Dundee Utd used to be the Irish club of that town adds zest to their nonsense in their own wee mins but I know one thing for certain. Any other club outside the ones mentioned that upset them enough would become “honorary fenians” in their eyes for the occasion.

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coineanachantaighePosted on8:06 pm - Dec 9, 2012


That should be minds, not mins. BTW I think all this argument about whether there are favoured and unfavoured (by Sevco and their minions) tends to play into their hands. Divide and rule and all that.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on8:14 pm - Dec 9, 2012


I see Third Lanark were formed 140 years ago on the 12th of December. Has Charles Green planned anything to celebrate this or is it just one club a year TRFC are doing? Jim?

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ordinaryfanPosted on8:19 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Agreed MB, the randomness of their actions is the point I was making earlier. No logic, no thought, no reasoning. It is the way the MSM are attempting to portray this boycott/threat to picket that bugs me.
Instead of pointing out the ridiculousness and randomness of this latest twist, they ignore the entire background and simply talk as if it is a perfectly legitimate action. Boycotting obviously is a reasonable action, when it has reason. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation.
First we were told it was over a game 3 years ago, now it’s because the poor wee souls at Sevco have suffered so horrendously at the hands of the SPL Clubs, yet they appear to be basing which Clubs they will target on absolutely nothing.
Maybe they are using the same disturbing and pretty delusional logic as Chuckles:
‘What we have to understand is not everyone in that room wanted Rangers out of that league and I know – because I could see glints in eyes – which ones were happy and which ones were not.
‘We recognise what happened and when some of these clubs come to Ibrox they will be welcome. When others come, they won’t be so welcome.’

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Shooperb

ShooperbPosted on8:27 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says:

Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 20:19

Oops – bet Thompson wishes he hadn’t worn his shiney new contact lenses that day!
Or, more likely, he couldn’t care less.

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bluPosted on8:43 pm - Dec 9, 2012


ordinaryfan says:

Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 20:19

“Agreed MB, the randomness of their actions is the point I was making earlier. No logic, no thought, no reasoning. It is the way the MSM are attempting to portray this boycott/threat to picket that bugs me.
Instead of pointing out the ridiculousness and randomness of this latest twist, they ignore the entire background and simply talk as if it is a perfectly legitimate action. Boycotting obviously is a reasonable action, when it has reason. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation.
First we were told it was over a game 3 years ago, now it’s because the poor wee souls at Sevco have suffered so horrendously at the hands of the SPL Clubs, yet they appear to be basing which Clubs they will target on absolutely nothing.
Maybe they are using the same disturbing and pretty delusional logic as Chuckles:
‘What we have to understand is not everyone in that room wanted Rangers out of that league and I know – because I could see glints in eyes – which ones were happy and which ones were not.
‘We recognise what happened and when some of these clubs come to Ibrox they will be welcome. When others come, they won’t be so welcome.’”
==================================================================
ordinaryfan, my reading of the Tom English article is that he was calling Rangers out for this boycott of the Dundee United tie and, going a step further, saying that they wouldn’t have boycotted if the tie had been scheduled for at Celtic Park. monsieurbunny at 18:51 has provided a very good outline of why this might be. I can’t see anything in his article that in any way legitimises the actions of the club (Charles Green) but he is right in saying that it is entirely up to the fans how, when and where they spend their money – no matter how irrational and hate-filled their reasoning might be (the last is my interpretation, not Tom English’s).

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jonnyodPosted on9:12 pm - Dec 9, 2012


CG has nurtured the mentality that now permeates throughout the Sevco fans mindset ,he has let the more volatile of the fan base to lead the way for his new club and there is now no turning back .
Anyone that disagrees with their views are branded bigots and anyone who has voted for the rules to be applied to all clubs are now viewed as an enemy .
IMO CG has a share issue to sell and the fans are his target investors ,he needs to keep them onside so could not be seen to go against their views ,maybe work for him short term but it may be just as well he won’t be around in the long term

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goosyPosted on9:18 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Well
Around this time last year RTC was forecasting Administration for RFC if they did not have a fire sale clear out in the Jan transfer window
At the time we thought it was because few Creditors were getting paid. It transpired that no Creditors were getting paid including HMRC
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I reckon it’s time for another forecast

1 The RIFC share issue will flop in the City as planned by the Spivs
2 The GullibleTRFC fans will part with perhaps £3m to £4m to buy shares in RIFC plc. This will give them zero shares in TRFC but because they are gullible it won`t matter
3 The Not so Gullible TRFC fans will keep their hands in their pockets, as they (like the Bampots) have figured out the next stage of the game plan

Which is

4 RIFC reveal it has a preferential Creditor owed over £20m who is forcing them into Administration.
A TRFC sale is the only way to avoid Zombie squared

5 A Not so Gullible Dream Team fronted by Cardigan offer to buy TRFC

Side issues?
I wouldn`t be a bit surprised if it all happened in the middle of the LNS Review
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If I was being fanciful I might even predict that……

The Dream Team secretly advise the SFA that their bid will be withdrawn if titles are stripped by LNS
Straw polls by my reveal the spirit of Carson is alive and well 100 yrs later
The scene is set for civil disorder on an issue as vital as the Home Rule Bill in 1912

Martial music is played at home games. (along with more popular melodies) The Gullible show their support with hearty singing.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Under enormous pressure from Social clubs all over the Nation

The LNS panel is adjourned before it reaches a verdict.
The SPL announce it will be reconvened “at a later date”

The Dream Team buy TRFC

Their first act is to advise the SFA that they will not play in any league in 2013 2014 unless the LNS panel is formally abandoned

The fairness of title stripping becomes the ST issue for season 2013 2014

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on9:30 pm - Dec 9, 2012


goosygoosy says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 21:18

I washed the windows and put up the Christmas Tree yesterday, watched Elf today and thought Ho Ho Ho!! I am now depressed.

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SeniorPosted on9:44 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Right, we are nearly there. I read back many pages and roughly eighty per cent call them sevco To simplify it all could we also call the liquidated club oldco, thank you.

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paulmac2Posted on9:56 pm - Dec 9, 2012


angus1983 says:
Saturday, December 8, 2012 at 16:23

From BBC live text commentary page:

BBC Sportsound’s Chick Young has exclusively revealed… that two SPL players will be heading to Ibrox once their transfer ban has been lifted…

Drew, Gers fan. “Who are the players Chick is mentioning bound for Rangers after ban is lifted?”
Not sure Drew, he’s keeping his cards close to his chest…

Anonymous: “Is Chick saying he has evidence of players being tapped by Rangers while in contract then?”
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That is exactly what it suggests….Sevco have been breaking the rules regards tapping up players..

Either that or Chic is a liar…and has given his allegiance to Traynor to promote all things SEVCO…

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paulmac2Posted on10:08 pm - Dec 9, 2012


tommythehat says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 21:46
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It’s worth while remembering…at the height of Minty’s spendathon…the Daily Ranger was owned by a Rangers director..

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SeniorPosted on10:10 pm - Dec 9, 2012


I had a workmate who remembered he came in contact with asbestos a couple of times, so when it became recognised that certain types of asbestos exposure could be lethal he went and got a check up to find that he had asbestos fibres in his lung. He explained that he had only come in contact a half a dozen times at the most. It was explained to him that exposure to this type of asbestos only once was enough to do damage. Thankfully he is still with us but he now,
constantly, worries, understandably, that his next check-up could portend disaster.

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tommythehatPosted on10:16 pm - Dec 9, 2012


paulmac2 says:

Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 22:08
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I didn’t know that – yep, every day an education indeed…and i used to actually buy the thing many moons ago – i gave up cos a tory loving colleague kept chucking it in the bin…but have had nothing but contempt for it ever since it took a darker side i.e. When Neil Lennon began his career at Celtic and ever since.

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briggsbhoyPosted on10:51 pm - Dec 9, 2012



monsieurbunny says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 19:02

Thanks for highlighting as the point I was trying to make was that it’s away games and I feel that they would not have gone to Motherwell or Inverness.

Ordinaryfan if I could pick you up in your comments at 20:19 because I think it is important.

“What we have to understand is not everyone in that room wanted Rangers out of that league and I know”

I get what you mean but to be factually correct The New Rangers were NOT in the room in the first place, as Old were almost certainly heading for liquidation they were automatically put OUT the league as per rules. What we had trying to get on the bus or IN the room or whatever way you want to put it was the re-incarnation of Rangers who claimed to be the original without the baggage. They claimed to have a deal that nobody understood, “my mates said it was alright, I’m back”

This whole fiasco with Rangers is becoming like a marriage which had never been comfortable and it has come to a divorce and things are getting nasty and will get even nastier. When you have to dig up the past to get a point over I think you have lost the battle and all this stuff about 2009 is utter guff. If Rangers fans had been so upset about this why did they not ask for a boycott on the following game. Rangers are the reason for the divorce but they will not accept that and how we bring this back to an amicable seperation I feel lies at their door. The SFA will have to sort this out but regretablly they gave the wrong advice as the marriage fell apart and so they will have to change the marriage counselors for this to go forward. All this nonesense is leading us nowhere.

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briggsbhoyPosted on10:55 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Language Martybhoy, I get you dont like him,

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ikiPosted on11:26 pm - Dec 9, 2012


martybhoy

I concur with your sentiments but please no more of the language that you know is not acceptable on this blog.

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zoylerPosted on11:38 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Please Martybhoy – what would Brother Walford say?

Seriously, there is no need or excuse for foul language

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Dave BPosted on11:39 pm - Dec 9, 2012


Surely there are filters that should have stopped these posts from being published?

Sometimes my kids are watching over my shoulder!

Get it sorted TSFM 🙂

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ordinaryfanPosted on12:01 am - Dec 10, 2012


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/were-playing-a-dangerous-game-1480140

The appeasement propaganda throughout this piece is pathetic. And newspapers seriously wonder why punters won’t pay to read drivel like this? Maybe if they had people like BRTH or Higher Pursuit writing for them and giving honest, insightful, knowledgeable opinion, they might see a change of fortune.

THE bitterness and boycotts are eating Scottish football alive from the inside
THERE was something pleasantly nostalgic about the way the crowd at Celtic Park believed Benfica had gone a goal down at Barcelona on Wednesday night.
We live in an age of instant communication where Kris Commons had probably tweeted his delight at scoring while his penalty was on the journey down from the crossbar to the goal-line and up into Spartak Moscow’s net.
How could a Champions League game take place in the Nou Camp with any possibility of a goal being scored there and not everybody being sure whether it had happened or not?
That was possible in the days when TV cameras showed black and white pictures and there was a telephone on the presenter’s desk in the studio in case the film came loose and the viewers had to be given an apology for the break in transmission.
But Arthur Montford is now deservedly enjoying his retirement while the more sedate game he brought to our living rooms has been traded for today’s doo-lally extravaganza.
An entire country should be uplifted by Neil Lennon’s side making the last 16 of the Champions League with a heroic display of skill and mental strength – but it won’t be.
Even the Celtic fans allowed the bitterness and vindictiveness that’s eating the game alive here to get the better of them in the immediate aftermath of a famous victory.
Their support at Kilmarnock yesterday was reduced in number because some fans boycotted the game in protest over Rugby Park chairman Michael Johnston.
He abstained from the summertime vote on whether a Rangers newco should be allowed entry to the SPL.
And he refused to give Celtic an extra allocation of tickets when they won the title on his team’s ground a few years ago.
It doesn’t really matter when the demonstration of power’s the thing, does it?
I’m assured some fans changed their mind and went to Ayrshire because they were so inspired by Celtic’s result against Spartak.
Principles are all very well but there’s no point in letting them get in the way of your enjoyment is there?
Rangers fans, meanwhile, won’t attend their team’s Scottish Cup tie at Tannadice because Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson is a very naughty boy or something.
The reason’s an irrelevance because the fans say they would have done the same thing if the cup draw had taken them to Celtic Park instead of Tayside.
If you believe that you’ll also believe Charles Green would have donated half of a 60,000 gate at Celtic Park to charities of his choice.
I met an SPL chairman a few days ago who genuinely fears the kind of negative emotions being stirred up within Scottish football will one day result in a personal attack on one of the game’s high-profile figures with tragic consequences.
And he was, if you’ll allow the expression, deadly serious.
His club plays in a league where the last set of accounts showed losses of £11.9million. And that was before Rangers went to the Third Division to guarantee greater losses.
We have to do something more to arrest a deepening crisis other than trying our best to make the place look even more demented. Rangers will need to get over the fact Craig Whyte ruined the club, not Dundee United. His successor is playing the Rangers fans like a violin and that’s understandable for a man with a £25m share issue to sell.
I was going to say playing the fans like a fiddle but you’ve got to be careful with your terminology these days.
But the game has to sell itself better at the same time. The SPL is looking for a new sponsor and Celtic’s Euro success should act as a formidable selling point.
If, that is, it wasn’t for the fact we give outsiders every opportunity to think any association with our game is the equivalent of consorting with madmen.
Can we just get back to the football instead of thinking up new ways to sabotage it?
No one understands us. We don’t care.
But we should.

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barcabhoy

barcabhoyPosted on12:50 am - Dec 10, 2012


We are about to enter a short hiatus regarding “The Rangers” farce. Nothing of any great consequence is likely to happen until the SPL enquiry reports.

I know the share issue is imminent and I know that the amounts raised will be of interest, however the most interesting part of that is already known

Aside from the fact that it appears the prospectus can’t even calculate ownership percentages properly, courtesy CQN, the key elements are now known

1 Rangers need the share issue funds to survive

2 The institutional investors are either taking a highly speculative, and irresponsible, punt or they are using an investment logic which makes no sense based on the prospectus

3 The absence of financial forecasts should be a concern, even for those making an emotional investment

4 The absence of clarity surrounding ownership of trusts and holdings amongst Rangers shareholders flies in the face of Green’s promise for transparency

Taking all of that to one side, if the institutions follow through on their pledges then Rangers should survive for the next 3 years. They should also progress if not necessarily prosper

Moving on, I am not invigorated by the debate over whether Rangers is still Rangers . Factually they are not, but I see this as a matter for the Rangers support. If they believe its the same club then why should anyone else care.

The SPL enquiry. After the FTT fooled just about everyone, it would be foolish to assume anything with regards to Nimmo Smith. What can’t be beyond doubt is that 5 players were illegally registered . It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to deduce that one of those players is almost certainly Nacho Novo.

Novo made 179 league appearances for Rangers between 2004 and 2010. Forgetting any other breach , that in itself is enough to ensure that the 0-3 result that should be applied to each of these 179 games is enough to have Rangers stripped of all titles won during his Rangers career. Novo also played in the Scottish Cup and the League Cup every season he was at Rangers

I don’t care who is awarded these titles and cups, however if they remain with Rangers then the game has lost any authority to police itself. Kenny Shiels p*ss take about playing Pasqualli will become deadly serious if Rangers are seen to be allowed to play illegally and willfully concealed registrations .

Finally Jim Traynor…..actually hold that thought. He’s an irrelevance .

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easyJamboPosted on1:50 am - Dec 10, 2012


I’ve been having another look through the prospectus and picked up on a few things. I wouldn’t mind someone with an accounting background to comment whether or not my findings are correct.

The current liabilities figure of £7.863M seems a bit high for a 3 month report. Of that £2.157M is listed as being due in Social Security and other taxes. Wages for the 3 month period came to “just” £3.5M (£14M per annum pro rata) and £377K was paid in Social Security costs (NIC payments?), therefore he must stil be due a fair bit of VAT and/or PAYE payments. Surely Chuckles must be paying his taxes on time given what has gone before.

Trade creditors are listed at £2.084M and other creditors at £2.293M. Again these seem high for just three months trading. £300K is mentioned with reference to player acquisitions. I assume that is the balance of the Templeton transfer that should have been paid last week.

Trade debtors at £4.776M also seems very high for a company that hasn’t been trading for very long. £507K is listed as being due for the sale of player registrations. (who?). I have no idea where the rest comes from unless he also has money due for Jelavic from Everton or others.

I noticed that RFCL still have a lease on catering facilities with a liability of £1.539M payable over the next five years. The prospectus states:

“The finance leases relate to funding of the refurbishment of the stadium fast food outlets.
A standard fixed security has been granted over these assets.”

I would guess that this is the Close Leasing arrangement formerly with Oldco as the amounts appear to correlate reasonably well with those in the D&D reports..

One wonders if there are other securities still held on any of the properties. Sport Scotland’s security on Murray Park, (dated 15th June), is the only one that has surfaced at Companies House since RFC went into administration.

There appears to be a deferred tax liability of £7.817M resulting from the upwards revaluation of Ibrox and Murray Park. (Is this the capital gains tax due should the gain be realised at some point in the future?)

It looks as if Chuckles exercised an option to buy 5,000,000 share at an exercise price of £0.01p, costing him all of £50K for shares that are being offered at £0.70p, giving him a paper profit of £3,450,000 on the deal.

Similarly Imran Ahmed seems to have bought 2,200,000 shares at the same price (£0.01p) in lieu of part paymet of a loan, costing him all of £22K. It’s a nice little earner if you can get it.

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luoanlai

luoanlaiPosted on2:35 am - Dec 10, 2012


On the subject of nice little earners.

I spotted a 200K loan that Imran Ahmed made. He charged the club a 50K fee for the loan and got his money back out in less than 6 months.

Not a bad rate of return. I’d have done it for less than half of that if he’d asked.

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ExiledCeltPosted on5:00 am - Dec 10, 2012


Just a quick return to a point I made on RTC back in Jilu (seems so long ago!)

We were asked to then accept that TRFC fans could believe what they want if it was the same club or not – I pointed out the dangers of this.

If we accept it is the same club then the following also has to accepted:

TRFC would be playing in SPL this year
TRFC would be in ECL
TRFC had no need to have a 5 party agreement to “maintain” their SFA membership
TRFC would join SLC and SC in 3rd round

However because TRFC are not the same club, they had to transfer their SFA membership to the new club and be admitted to SFL at bottome where all new clubs start – plus UEFA do not accpet new clubs in Europe without 3 years of accounts.

Chris Graham and Chuckie are spinning the then, now and forever nonsense – and if I was a Bear, I would be saying the same – how come we were “chucked” out of SPL if we are same club. Unfortunately, the “kicking us while we are down” explanation is then used to point the finger at SPL clubs and whomever it is convenient to point to.

If you look at the true path of events, CG, Dave King,Lord Cardy, Hately and Gough as well as their new PR man Jabba ALL agreed that. the old club had died and the new one was on a new path – initially.

Only man who said otherwise at the time was ND – he was the one spouting nonsense about it being the same club etc in order to try to keep it in SPL and the fanbase of RFC onboard with TRFC. CG realised he could do the same in order to sell STs.

It is a flawed tactic to use RFC are same as TRFC when it suits – because if it is true then I am wrong and RFC/TRFC should be in the SPL this year.TRFC fans have been told that this is the same club and they have been unfailrly punished – and if that were indeed the truth, they are completely 100% correct – they should not be in SFL3.

However, it is not true – and this nonsense is the divide that is cauing a chasm in Scottish football.

It is not important – only by someone somewhere putting Chuck and his lackeys Graham/Leggo/Dingo correct about this will the sense of what happened this summer make sense.

Reading this part in the prospectus

However, the Scottish Football Association has stated that it will not grant the Club a UEFA licence for seasons 2012/13 to 2014/15.

This is where the people kickng us nonsense must stop

Its like me saying the British Govt wont give me a driving licence when the fact is I am banned from driving for a DUI or some thing.Chuck has to stop this them’s all aginst us nonsense – or someone has to grow a pair in the SFA and get some control over him

Finally – I have not seen anyone comment on the following portion form the prospectus

2.2 On-pitch performance and UEFA competitions
RFCL’s financial performance is, and the Company’s financial performance will be, influenced bythe Club’s on-pitch performance in domestic and European competitions. Participation in UEFA club football competitions can generate significant revenues for competing clubs. For example, inqualifying for the group stages of the 2009/10 and 2010/11 competitions, the Club earned €17.5million and €19.3 million respectively in central UEFA distributions. In 2007/08, the Club’s run to the final of the UEFA Europa League competition resulted in direct revenue from UEFA of £11.1 million.

So RFC got 20 milion Euros for 2010 and 2011 seasons andanother 11 million quid for 2008.

Over 3 seasons they made around 30 million quid BONUS money over and above the ST/TV/SPL prize money………….

So basically there was no need to sell CW if that money was put aside was there SDM?

Instead of putting the money aside, you sold it for 1 pound who had no funds to pay 9 million in PAYE/NI left after he borrowed to buy the club.

SDM – simple question – where did that money go? Why is no one asking the simple question – how can the Mighty Gers get an additional 30 million quid over and above their normal expected income and still go bust?

Like CG’s calculator in the prospectus, nothing adds up here.

,

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ExiledCeltPosted on5:05 am - Dec 10, 2012


And its 50 million not 30 million – sorry!!! My calculator is still set on prospectus mode 🙂

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doontheslopePosted on6:38 am - Dec 10, 2012


Exiledcelt

50 million which should have gone to clubs who had their players registered legally.

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alan280170Posted on7:04 am - Dec 10, 2012


Love the Stirling Albion pic, if I knew how to attach it I would.

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wottpiPosted on7:16 am - Dec 10, 2012


As someone pointed out the other day SDM had gotten multi millions from various investors e.g King. Add to that the aforementioned Euro Cash and all they got for it was a Europa Cup final. With a half decent financial model domestic trophies would have come anyway given the size of the club.

What SDM didn’t do with the momey was keep some back for a rainy day to keep the taxman from the door and keep an eye on the areas of the stadium that were needing upgraded.

In fact SDM didn’t have any in the bank because they were constantly overdrawn and of course when SDM went to the fans well for one last time they found that was dry as well.

From a quick glance at the prospectus and comments on here it looks like a similar pattern could be emerging.

Quite rightly some money appears to be going on capital expenditure but how much of that being spent on Ibrox is going to lead to additional revenue?

What is the chances that Mike Ashely’s iinvestment is all going to be chanelled into the club shop operation? And while the club may get revenue from more sales of merchandise I think that deal will be well skewed in Ashleys favour.

Regardless, given the timescale to get these capital projects moving they are not going to start generating revenue immediately. Therefore Mr Charles is going to have to run a very tight ship otherwise the money is going to run out again.

I am sure they can maybe pull it off but it really looks like a punt to see if they can make it to a point where they can perhaps get a sniff at Euro cash once again.

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stunneyPosted on7:44 am - Dec 10, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts-fans-takeover-bid-criticised-by-vladimir-romanov-1-2683157

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stunneyPosted on7:46 am - Dec 10, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/scottish-cup-arbroath-counting-their-good-fortune-ahead-of-a-third-joust-with-the-old-firm-1-2682492

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auchinstarryPosted on7:49 am - Dec 10, 2012


Got to laugh at this continuous use of the phrase “Kicking us when we’re down”,
Constantly used by the likes of Hately, Graham, the Cardigan, et al.
The only real connection I can make between Oldco and kicking people when they’re down is the Policeman in Manchester surrounded by Sevconians ,
So please just Stop using this phrase as an ideological get out from your self-inflicted woes.
It is overused and completely sums up the “Poor us” mentality from people who really should know better.

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briggsbhoyPosted on8:55 am - Dec 10, 2012


I’ve worked it out! Why would a reputal firm like L & G be showing interested in investing in RFCIL?, it’s the 500m supporters Worldwide mailing list, how did we miss that 🙂

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wottpiPosted on9:20 am - Dec 10, 2012


auchinstarry says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 07:49

Perhaps if they hadn’t been so quick at
“Rubbing our noses in it” when they were successful people may have been more symathetic to their plight and wouldn’t have indulged in “Kicking us when we’re down”.

I am sure I said before either on here or RTC that the difference is that given the aforementioned access to huge bank overdrafts, private investors passing over millions, SDM’s corporate finances and the revenues derived from a huge fan base, they basically p*ssed it all up against the wall. However what sucess they did have they rammed down everyone elses throats.

Thats why when clubs like Dundee and Motherwell were in financial trouble others in Scottish Football had a degree of sympathy knowing that with a small fan base and a lack of glory hunter investors their own clubs could easily have found themselves in the same position.

For a club who seem to be promoting a boycott in an attempt to deliver a kicking to their enemies every second week are they surpised of the attitude of others?

Of course it all comes back to the fact that they can’t seem to get their head round the fact that the rules were bent every which way to allow football to be played at Ibrox this season and this is the thanks we get!

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Stephen GallagherPosted on9:27 am - Dec 10, 2012


In relation to a comment above:

“Moving on, I am not invigorated by the debate over whether Rangers is still Rangers . Factually they are not, but I see this as a matter for the Rangers support. If they believe its the same club then why should anyone else care.”

I agree with this. However when the Scottish footballing authorities are promoting the fact that “Rangers” are the same club, against the evidence that they are not – then the whole affair becomes a sordid one, where the only thing that liquidated was Rangers’ debt.

At this point – never mind waiting for the results of the SPL enquiry – Scottish football is already discredited or disgraced. Official.

Forget all the nonsense that people want to see Rangers dead. The fact is, people want to live in a society and compete in football that is fair.

If every other club has to pay its bills, then so must Rangers.

If Rangers could not or would not pay its bills and if that club goes bust then Scottish football must deal with this, honestly and without fear or favour.

The appeasement process, the propaganda and spin that is being forced upon every football fan in the country (not to mention taxpayers and creditors who are still owed money from Rangers FC) is a dark and shameful episode in the history of Scotland & Scottish football.

Three times I have written to the Scottish Football League to ask if their description of Rangers FC is compatible with UEFA’s policies – three times I have been ignored.

Their silence and deliberate attempts to ignore people with genuine concerns is perhaps the most telling of all.

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wolvibhoyPosted on9:34 am - Dec 10, 2012


Move along bampots nothing to see here. The changing of the guard at the DR is complete.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/keith-jackson-following-james-traynor-1482796

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on9:45 am - Dec 10, 2012


WRT The proposed boycott of Dundee Utd. FC by fans of the newest club in the league. Surely Charles Green has provided the way forward for everyone. He mentioned the 2 charities that he would like to benefit from monies due to the new club so evryone who wishes to see the game can go along and enjoy the match. Dundee Utd give the new clubs share to the 2 charities and everyone ends up happy. The new clubs fans have showed their feelings, the charities are quids in and Charles Green and all his senior directors can feel pride at what they have achieved. Dignity intact if a little financially worse off. That’ll show them pesky chairmen that the new club mean business and the charities can look forward to a windfall every time the new club meets an SPL team in the future………

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angus1983Posted on10:22 am - Dec 10, 2012


The Herald – “Where did it all go wrong for Traynor?”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/opinion/from-the-herald-to-the-third-division-where-did-it-go-wrong-for-traynor.19630269

“The first sighting of the Airdrie fan (inverted commas optional) in a Rangers club tie is going to be a particularly rich source of comic material. In the meantime just one question springs to mind: from the august pages of The Herald to working in the third division . . . where did it all go wrong?”

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:43 am - Dec 10, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 08:55

I’ve worked it out! Why would a reputal firm like L & G be showing interested in investing in RFCIL?, it’s the 500m supporters Worldwide mailing list, how did we miss that 🙂
———————————————————————————————-
May be wrong but I think this branch of L&G may be an investment dept dealing with nominees,ie,they’re buying on behalf of a nameless client or clients.Not actually investing any of their own cash.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:02 am - Dec 10, 2012


Great wee fairy story from Keech Jackson.
We told the truth,
Traynor is a god,
He’ll control Green,etc

Oh,as a wee aside,Lawell better get his finger out or Lennon’s away!

“After changes upon changes we are more or less the same,
After changes we are more or less the same”
(copyright Simon & Garfunkel).

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paulmac2Posted on11:07 am - Dec 10, 2012


Right…cards on the table time lads and lassies…

Who amongst us has sent in their application for certificates…sorry shares?

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paulmac2Posted on11:23 am - Dec 10, 2012


I am hearing a rumour that Mr Greig has returned to the club….in what capacity?

As he was a director under the previous regimes…and as the club has been liquidated owing tens of Millions in unpaid debts including VAT and PAYE..where does that leave the suggestion of a phoenix?

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coineanachantaighePosted on11:23 am - Dec 10, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 20:19
————————————————-

I can certainly agree with what you say there.

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rabPosted on11:31 am - Dec 10, 2012


Keith jingle jangle,
The English language does mangle,
as he tries hard to wrangle,
a way to untangle,
the faustian fangle,
of the five way pentangle.

He is the angle of a dangle

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briggsbhoyPosted on11:36 am - Dec 10, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 10:43

I have two policies with them and thank God they are not investments. You would have to question the credibility of an investment manager within L & G if they did invest a clients money in a footbal club never mind Rangers longterm or not.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:40 am - Dec 10, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 11:36
============================================
I have a small pension pot with L&G and I agree that no pension fund should be anywhere near football,never mind this particular issue.
That’s why I think L&G are just a conduit here,carrying out a purchase for an unnamed buyer.

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briggsbhoyPosted on11:42 am - Dec 10, 2012


torrejohnbhoy, Paulmac2, Rab

In Keech Jackson we truely have a Rangers man with blue coloured tinted specs or is it Orange, nah I’ll say blue.

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layman00Posted on11:45 am - Dec 10, 2012


From the herald piece on Traynor and Rangers:

.’Their website averages 437,000 unique users per month, the highest in Scottish football and fifth highest in British football.’

Green rubbing his hands at the thought of all that traffic paying for access to the websites content in the future. Surely he realises the vast majority of the traffic is supporters of other teams on for a gloat at their ongoing problems 🙂

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coineanachantaighePosted on12:01 pm - Dec 10, 2012


layman00 says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 11:45
2 0 i Rate This
———————————————

Then surely we should stop gloating and ut off their money supply?

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coineanachantaighePosted on12:02 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Cut

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Shooperb

ShooperbPosted on12:36 pm - Dec 10, 2012


rab says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 10:51

Rab, I think you’re being a little harsh on the guy. His column does (eventually) have a go at green for stopping fans from supporting their team. Admittedly, there’s a lot of guff to get through before we arrive at that point, including the wholesale revisionism of Traynor’s journalistic output.

Unfortunately, it’s the way of the world as far as DR goes. There always has to be an element of ‘bad as each other’ (whether that be Celtic/Rangers, Bampots/Sevocnians etc.) before they actually get to their point when criticising TRFC or their predecessor. I believe it’s to reel in the readers with a ‘see? we’re not the mhedia!’. Unfortunately, Tam Cowan’s column was subject to it as well at the weekend, with his misleading pronouncement that Dundee United made fans pay twice for the Scottish cup game. It also negelcted to mention that it was Dundee Utd fans who were in the majority at the game, and therefore it hit them collectively harder than it did Rangers, but what’s the loss of a few facts when discussing TRFC?

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Shooperb

ShooperbPosted on12:48 pm - Dec 10, 2012


That Herald article is hilarious – not so much the article itself, but the comments after it. Here’s my favourite:

“To John ! Rangers can get into Europe if they win Scottish cup all it would take is the S.F.A. to put there name forward but they won’t.
They were denied entry into division 1 as S.F.A and S.P.L. allegedly tried to remove titles from them so Rangers and the fans decided Division 3
Both U.E.F.A and FIFA list the club as still on-going with it’s history as Charles Green bought the asset’s from the company ( which was liquidated) that ran the club this is now part of law and was ratified by both the S.F.A and S.P.L. when both agreed Mr Green could buy the assets.You also need to ask if no history why Nimmo smith hearing in January ?
Neil Doncaster was part of the E.F.A. as one of the two Football League representatives and was working for the football league in 2008 when Leeds Utd transferred from oldco to newco and Leeds stayed in league one and kept there history including 1991 / 92 Division ”

That’s right – it wasn’t the votes of the SFL clubs that put Rangers into division 3, it was Rangers (and somehow, their fans) that decided to go there. Maybe I’ve mssed the nuances of it. Perhaps the guy actually means that all SFL chairmen are Rangers fans?

Also, the SFA being responsible for Rangers not being able to play in Europe. I don’t think I’ll even bother commenting on that one. It needs no additional words.

And the Leeds thing – has anyone told them that, despite their wish that it was the case, there’s no British league. Leeds play in a different region to ourselves, and whilst the FA may have been content to let it pass (mainly because it had never happened before and they weren’t quite sure what to do), the SFA (or rather, the fans of the clubs that make up the SFA) weren’t content for that to happen.

Talk about re-writing history…..

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ExiledCeltPosted on12:52 pm - Dec 10, 2012


I noticed one of the fans comments on the Herald peice on Traynor has been drinking the Koolaid….

Quote

To John ! Rangers can get into Europe if they win Scottish cup all it would take is the S.F.A. to put there name forward but they won’t.
They were denied entry into division 1 as S.F.A and S.P.L. allegedly tried to remove titles from them so Rangers and the fans decided Division 3
Both U.E.F.A and FIFA list the club as still on-going with it’s history as Charles Green bought the asset’s from the company ( which was liquidated) that ran the club this is now part of law and was ratified by both the S.F.A and S.P.L. when both agreed Mr Green could buy the assets.You also need to ask if no history why Nimmo smith hearing in January ?
Neil Doncaster was part of the E.F.A. as one of the two Football League representatives and was working for the football league in 2008 when Leeds Utd transferred from oldco to newco and Leeds stayed in league one and kept there history including 1991 / 92 Division 1 champions.

Endquote

So now we know that its the SFA stopping TRFC from getting into Europe and that it was their choice to go to SFL3 – not anyone elses!

I have some waterfront property in Bangledesh I may try to sell him if he’s that stupid……….

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ExiledCeltPosted on12:56 pm - Dec 10, 2012


areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:

Monday, December 10, 2012 at 12:48

You beat me by a nanosecond – if only i had not read it twice as I could not believe what I was reading 🙂

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Shooperb

ShooperbPosted on12:58 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Anyone else want to comment on that TRFC fan on the Herald article? 😉

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Shooperb

ShooperbPosted on12:59 pm - Dec 10, 2012


exiledcelt says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 12:56

Yeah, me too. I had to read it a couple of times because I thought it was a wind up at first!

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Shooperb

ShooperbPosted on1:02 pm - Dec 10, 2012


He also seems to have missed that both Neath and Unirea are still on the UEFA list, even though both have ceased to exist, so being on there is only proof that you gained some ranking points at some point in the last few years, not that you’re still around.

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rabPosted on1:06 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Now that a fan has confirmed beyond all doubts that Trfc are in the third division because thats where they wanted to be.

Will they boycott themselves for kicking themselves when they are down.

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rabPosted on1:13 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Ateyouaccusingmeofmendacity.

I will cut jangle some slack when he stops printing nonsense like this.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-match-reports/spl-match-reports-kilmarnock-3-1281731

THEY swaggered into Rugby Park on Saturday feeling for all the world like title contenders.

If they had any sense of decency or shame they would have left by the back door. Shuffling out with blankets over their heads.

Dundee United’s players may well bounce back quickly from this horrendous and embarrassing capitulation but the black mark it leaves against their names will take a long while to disappear. When they wanted to be taken seriously they ended up being laughed out of town.

In fact, the very fact they crashed so spectacularly merely underlines why neither they, not anyone else for that matter, can be considered capable of making a genuine fist of challenging Celtic for the big one this season.

Painfully, this was the day Peter Houston’s players were exposed as frauds. It didn’t take long did it?

But even though the manager always knew his group was neither strong nor experienced enough to go the distance at the top, even Houston will be horrified at the way they disintegrated on what, for 45 mind-numbing minutes, had been shaping up as a wholly unremarkable afternoon.

United had been given the big billing all week but Houston’s star turns failed to turn up. Not even the wonderfully gifted Johnny Russell, who was cleared to play after the club stumped up a grand to have his derby-day red card overturned. Stephen Thompson might as well have kept his hand in his pocket because Russell was one of a host of United players who looked as if he would rather be anywhere else.

They had travelled all this way just to go through the motions but the lack of dynamism and spark about their play was, it must be said, almost what their paltry support deserved.

Yes, there was something despairing about the fact Houston’s league leaders could hardly muster a couple of coachloads to follow them down the road from Tayside.

And the apathy was catching because not one of Houston’s most exciting performers looked remotely bothered about putting on a show for those who did. They appeared to believe they could defeat Kilmarnock without having to try and for 45 minutes they probably had a point because the home side were pretty awful too.

Granted, Kilmarnock were not helped by a sickening early injury to the usually excellent Gary Harkins, who had to be carefully carried off just 12 minutes in after being knocked out cold by Gavin Gunning.

But even despite this loss – and allowing for the eccentricities of a manager who likes to stick two fingers up at convention – Kilmarnock lacked any kind of structure or cutting edge throughout this turgid test of patience. Little Rory McKenzie was left to lead the attack on his own with occasional back-up from Borja Perez and Harkins’ replacement Jude Winchester. By half-time there was no sign at all that this trio were about to click into match-winning action.

Then again no one could have known what was about to come, least of all Houston. If he wasn’t so personally involved in it all he may even have seen the funny side because the way United handed this contest over to their hosts was comical. In fact, it was hysterical.

They had only just escaped from the dressing room when they took it in turns to self-harm. It began bewilderingly when young left-back Barry Douglas suffered a brain melt inside his own penalty area, running with the ball right across the face of his own six-yard box.

To add to the farce of it all, keeper Radoslaw Cierzniak gawped on with an ever slackening jaw as Douglas came closer and closer until the pair of them froze together, each waiting for the other to do something.

And as they malfunctioned little McKenzie nipped in to nudge the ball home from a couple of yards out. It was a cringeworthy concession but the Kilmarnock youngster felt no shame as he raced away to celebrate his first senior goal while stifling his laughter.

But before the sniggering had died down United’s suicide squad struck for a second time, when the ever so disappointing Gary Mackay-Steven capped his own lacklustre display by sliding into a clumsy tackle on Danny Racchi and sending the Englishman sprawling inside the box. It was such a stonewall penalty not even ref Crawford Allan, who was missing a great deal of what was going on, could fail to spot it. New boy Perez stroked home from 12 yards to reduce United to a blundering, quivering shambles.

At the back Gunning, Douglas and even the usually reliable Sean Dillon were now taking it in turns to traumatise their team-mates and keeper Cierzniak in particular.

Between them they lost an excruciating sloppy third goal from a Racchi corner when Irish youngster Winchester pounced to slam home at Cierzniak’s back post and complete a devastating 10-minute collapse.

And it could have got worse. There was one moment, 72 minutes in, that summed up United’s dysfunctional United display. First Douglas clumsily gave up possession to McKenzie around the halfway line. Dillon moved across to clear up only for his legs to give way and allow McKenzie to charge forward unchallenged.

Then when he hit the 18-yard line Gunning generously waved him through and invited him to take a crack at goal. Cierzniak made the save but United were beyond help now. Well, almost.

With 12 minutes to go Kilmarnock defender Michael Nelson appeared to take pity when he got down on both knees to allow a cross from Douglas to swing into the danger area.

Jon Daly controlled it and slotted home but this was not even a consolation for Houston who was still simmering as he made his way on to the team bus.

He knows his United are much better than this. But they’re not half as good as they think are.

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ExiledCeltPosted on1:17 pm - Dec 10, 2012


In all seriousness, the TRFC fan in the Herald is not on his own in being absolutely wrong on all facts relating to how his club ended up where they.

This is the chasm that is destroying Scottish footbal now.

As readers of my posts/typos know, I belong to a larger RFC family all of whom have TUPE’d over to TRFC. It used to be that we could have some banter and none of it was harsh or taken as such. However, I cannot now speak about the topic of football. If I have any comment on TRFC I am told I am obsessed and need to stop being interested in their club. A fe of my family have now started attending games just to do a GIRUY to the bad folks of the SPL. There is a palpable hate now. Only time we could talk about the ECL was for the few days after when Barca scored to win 2-1. All other games are not discussed.

I have gone with them to RFC games when I was younger aqs I was desperate to see a football game and unfortunately my mum made some of them take me to CFC games when I pleaded with her. We never ever were able to go a RFC/CFC game together as that would be too much 🙂

However now – we cannot even discuss it without someone getting angry and voices getting raised.

If my family are in this state of affairs I can only imagine how bad the more unbalanced TRFC fans are.

This nonsense has to stop now,

Someone needs to stand up and stop this by stating the truth – RFC died and the assets sold to TRFC who can claim to be who they want but the consequences of the events in the summer were due to the club dying and for no other reason.

I truly wanted a new TRFC to come back less uber alles and more in line with a modern thinking all inclusive club – however thanks to ND/SR, they gave CG the option ot go for it in his quest to save TRFC from obliteration, line his pockets and run away…….leaving us with a Norn Iron seige mentality……….

Its got to be nipped in the bud soon – or things may well get ugly and innocent folks may get hurt somewhere with this nonsense of revenge and kicking us while we are down,

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TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on1:25 pm - Dec 10, 2012


exiledcelt – Monday, December 10, 2012 at 12:52

Perhaps someone would be so good as to ask the person in question what exactly they believe is being liquidated? Its very easy to confuse as the MSM will testify to that. In June we heralded, many extolled the END OF RANGERS. This was reflected in ALL of the major press.

Now? Rangers continue as if nothing had happened. The press report the illustrious continued 140 years of history….. wait a minute? I thought you told us they were dead?

Meanwhile the Sevconian mantra (aided and abetted by the SMSM) continues…. “Rangers then, Rangers now, Rangers forever” blah blah blah

Which one though… its very confusing……The Rangers…. Rangers FC… The Rangers 1872 Plc….. The name changing has been brilliant….. not just for comedic effect but to distract away from the real issue. It has been an incredibly divisive element to all of this.

Its however VERY easy to dispel.

VERY easy to distinguish between the Rangers name (BRAND) and the Rangers legal ‘entity’ (FOOTBALL CLUB)

Forget all the nonsense about what was a holding company etc etc etc ……….

Rangers 1872 lasted for 140 years. The life and times of Rangers Football Club, formed in 1872, were celebrated at the weekend by those who refuse to believe they are gone.

That 140 years held an impressive history of achievement on the field, very much less so off it.

Rangers Football Club, formed in 1872 still made it to 140 years. It will not make it to 141 years. The BRAND name will no doubt continue. The CLUB however wont. It no longer exists!

The ‘entity’ that was incorporated on the 27th May 1899 and is now being liquidated is THE FOOTBALL Club formed in 1872. That means the current incarnation is indeed a NEWCLUB. It is a NEW ENTITY. Never forget the HISTORY was bought by this new entity.

It may own the history and the BRAND but it is NOT the same entity.

Yeah………., the mantra continues……. but it should be ……………..Rangers Then, Rangers Now (In Liquidation) New Rangers from now on…… but then again……..NOTHING lasts forever!…… does it! 😉

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ordinaryfanPosted on1:32 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Monday, December 10, 2012 at 09:45
16 0 Rate This
WRT The proposed boycott of Dundee Utd. FC by fans of the newest club in the league. Surely Charles Green has provided the way forward for everyone. He mentioned the 2 charities that he would like to benefit from monies due to the new club so evryone who wishes to see the game can go along and enjoy the match. Dundee Utd give the new clubs share to the 2 charities and everyone ends up happy. The new clubs fans have showed their feelings, the charities are quids in and Charles Green and all his senior directors can feel pride at what they have achieved. Dignity intact if a little financially worse off. That’ll show them pesky chairmen that the new club mean business and the charities can look forward to a windfall every time the new club meets an SPL team in the future………

………….
LETS MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

Excellent idea by Carfins Finest, best I’ve heard yet. The SPL Clubs should release a joint statement aimed at Chuckles, stating that they are all willing to honour the “dignified” stance by New Co, and agree that all attendance monies due to New Co in future games between SPL Clubs and Sevco (Killie can abstain if they choose) will go to the charities of Chuckles choice, to be handed over by someone trustworthy of course.
I would love to see Chuckles put on the spot to see just how fast he would backtrack.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:35 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Any property developers willing to give advice to the debaters on Rangers Rumours:

09 Dec 2012 17:17:54
Just been informed from a very, very reliable source (and not the source who kept saying there were teams of security guards ready to descend on Ibrox a few months back) that BDO are ready to challenge Charles Green’s due to the valuations printed in the prospectus. Having read it myself and being prepared to invest I must admit that the valuation struck me as strange too. I always knew that if there was going to be a banana skin then this would be it.

The security gaurds did happen atleast on two occasions, the first when rangers went into administration and when their fate was sealed and liquidation was confirmed!

Your just being daft. A football stadium is worthless with out a football team playing at it! Will rangers playing there the value is much higher due to ticket sales? Is that hard to understand?

Stadium is worthless without a football team. Are you for real , Tesco, ASDA, House’s flat’s .There are more way’s to skin a cat. Open your eye’s and see the danger your team is in.
Tam {Ed001’s Note – and it is a piece of land with a building on that they can’t use. So they have to pay to get rid of it, reducing the value of the land. It is not difficult to understand, especially as it has no planning permission for change of use and might not get it. I am sick of this argument from people who clearly have no idea.}

The word ED is MIGHT not get it,if the facade is kept ie the front ,just think how many bear’s would buy into that. Nothing is impossible.
Tam {Ed001’s Note – but you are forgetting that its value is minimal until that planning permission is secured, as any property developer will tell you.}

So someone from bdo told you this on a Sunday. I’m a Celtic fan and can’t believe this

Ed would put money on a lot of property developer’s willing to take the chance, especially if facade stay’s.
Tam {Ed001’s Note – not at the prices you are talking about, because getting planning permission can be an expensive nightmare, especially when it is for change of use of a sporting facility. It would be almost impossible to attain, without providing a replacement one.}

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troubledfanPosted on1:47 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Nickmcguinnes@11.36.
We idiots take exception to that comment sir..

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SeniorPosted on1:49 pm - Dec 10, 2012


Definitely Christmas is upon us. I open my mail (a big brown envelope) this morning and discover that my shares application are priced at 70 pence per share and are secured. As a gesture, seeing the season that is in it, I can also purchase another thousand for 35 pence per share.
Tis the season to be jolly.lal lal lal la la le la la.

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