The Real Battle Begins?

ByTrisidium

The Real Battle Begins?

The increasing attacks on social media by the main stream press, fuelled in some respect by David Murray’s vague threats of litigation against bloggers, has brought into sharp focus the challenges facing the Blogosphere. It also brings into even sharper focus the prescience of Stuart Cosgrove’s assertion that this summer’s ‘epistemological break’  had begun to marginalize the Scottish sporting wing of the MSM.

The reality of that assertion is embedded in the misreporting of the FTT decision as a victory for RFC, falsely alleging that those who operated the EBT scheme had been exonerated, that RFC had ‘done nothing wrong’, and consequently accusing ‘vindictive anti-Rangers bloggers’ of playing a part in the downfall of that once great Scottish institution. It is also evident in Tom English’s rather bitter and one-dimensional anti-RTC polemic today in the Scotland on Sunday. Had it been entitled “Self Preservation”, it may have rung a few more truth bells.

I am not of the belief that the MSM is an instinctively pro-Rangers estate, but I do think that their reportage of the FTT is more geared towards discrediting the newly emergent forces in the social media area than it is towards rehabilitating the public image of RFC or David Murray.

However despite the contempt in which many people here hold the MSM and Murray, English does have a point that we would be foolish to ignore. No-one can deny that we do have a duty to ensure that we are responsible in how we present ourselves to the public. Now that our (and others’) success as a real and creative alternative has spurred the MSM into action, we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past. Our view is that we have to be pro-actively engaged in setting a standard for ourselves that is above those that the MSM have set for themselves.

We have on TSFM an audience exponentially greater than the number of posts. That presents us with a great opportunity to get our message across, but it also burdens us with an increased responsibility not to fall into the trap which has besought the Succulent Lamb Brigade.

We are a very different animal from RTC. RTC him or herself had information and insight to bring to the table that the administrators of this site do not. The founder and former admin of TSFM had the idea that the talent available from posters on the RTC – not just RTC himself – should continue to have a forum in a post-RTC world, and that those talents could be used to challenge the myths regularly represented as facts by lazy journalists in the MSM.

We have at our disposal on this blog forensic analysis of legal, media and corporate matters. We have an abundance of creative minds, all passionate about the game of football AS WELL AS a partisan love for their chosen club. With all that talent and expertise, we can make an impact on the agenda by challenging the misinformation and substandard journalism of the MSM, and our finest moments are when we do that. We lose authority and influence when the debate is impeded by bald accusation or innuendo backed up with little more than an historical view of our country.

Our biggest impact (and largest audience) is to be found when when our experts have collectively torn apart those myths presented as truths by the MSM, and when we have asked the questions that the MSM either can’t or won’t ask or answer. Those are the things that have driven the traffic to this site, and many of the emails we get congratulate us on that.

Our credibility plummets though when we go down the partisan path. We also get literally hundreds of emails from fans who ask that we cut down on the comments of those who are merely venting outrage at how they see the game being mismanaged (mainly so they can access the important stuff more quickly), and from fans who are just fed up with the constant name-calling – almost exclusively aimed at Ally McCoist and other Rangers figures.

If we claim to be an intellectual and journalistic rung or two above the likes of the Red Tops (not to mention to be decent and respectful of others), we need to refrain from the name calling and accusatory culture. We can ask questions, put items for debate on the public agenda, point out apparent irregularities and anomalies. In rushing to judgement of others from the comfort of the glow of our own laptop screens, we are guilty of the same lazy journalism we see in others. Name calling (all good fun of course on a fan site) is just a lazy thought process and as English says, comes across as “nasty”.

We never saw RTC as a fan-site. The original administrator of this blog never saw TSFM as one either, and nor do we. In order to succeed properly, we need sensible fans of ALL clubs to be comfortable and feel secure in our midst. Of course we are not breaking any laws, but can anyone honestly say that we have evolved into a welcoming place for Rangers fans?

TSFM is not about hounding any one club out of existence or into shame or infamy. In the Rangers saga we have sought to ensure that the football authorities play fair with everyone and stick to their own rules. One well kent RTC contributor, and no friend of Rangers, often said that if the FTT found in favour of Rangers we should move along and accept it. Well they did find in favour of Rangers in the majority of cases. That may not suit many of us, but we are the Scottish Football Monitor, not a Judicial Watchdog. We can say why we disagree with the decision, but criticism of the process through which the decision was arrived at is beyond our purview.

Since the accusation is often made in the MSM, we should state, unequivocally and unreservedly, that we are NOT anti-Rangers. Their fans face the same issues as the rest of us and they are welcome here. We are however, equally unequivocally against the gravy train journalism of the Scottish Football Wing of the MSM (with one or two honourable exceptions).

If the Anti-Blogateers in the press are correct, the popularity of the TSFM will recede as the Rangers Tax case reverts to the back pages before disappearing for good. However I do not believe that they are correct. I don’t believe that Scottish football fans are only motivated by either hatred – or even dislike – of one club. I believe we are more concerned with the game itself than the pot-stirrers in the MSM would have us believe, because we understand the interdependence of football clubs.

But we also understand that the people who run football clubs do not always run their clubs for the benefit of the fans. In the business world, that may not be out of the ordinary, since businesses are run for the benefit of shareholders.
However football reserves for itself a special place in the hearts of people in this country. If the people who run football clubs want to retain that favourable status, they have to be accountable to the fans.

The difficulty in holding them to account though, is that the cosy relationship cultivated between club directors, managers and players and the press renders the access to information a closed shop, and the information itself is heavily filtered and spun.

As long as we keep asking questions in response to the fruit of that cosy relationship, we will be providing people with an alternative angle and viewpoint, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, and not the one the MSM post-presser huddle delivers to us wrapped up in a bow.

For the SFM specifically, we believe that to have any influence, we need to enable the expertise at our disposal to flourish. It is also vital to our project that Rangers fans are included in our dialogue. We just can’t call ourselves the Scottish Football Monitor if they are largely excluded from participation because they feel they are being treated disrespectfully.

We can’t tolerate the accusations and name calling. We need to stick to what we have done best; factual analysis, conjecture based on known facts and on-line discourse leading to searching questions being asked.

One of the things we are looking at for the near future is to set up some kind of formal and transparent channel of communication between the SFM and the football authorities. Being truly representative of fans will make that easier to achieve.

The MSM will continue to attack the social media outlets. In one way you can understand it. Their jobs are at stake. The business model of the print media in particular has changed massively over the last five years, manifesting itself mainly in increasingly under-resourced newsrooms. Consequently it is besought by increasingly unreliable and under-researched journalism, even to the point where much of it is no longer journalism at all.

By comparison the Blogosphere has access to greater human and time resources, is able to react to unfolding events in real time, and crucially (because it has been eschewed instead of embraced by print media proprietors) has been occupied by ordinary folk with little or no vested interest.

We are still in position to provide a service in our small niche of the on-line world. We have rights to publish and speak freely about our passion, but we also have to live up to the attendant responsibilities, and thus the appeal for discretion on posting comments.

Where Tom English got it completely wrong (in the uniquely ironic way the MSM have about them), is that his industry has mistaken the rights others have earned for them as entitlement, and ignored almost completely the responsibility they had to act on behalf of those who pay their wages.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,018 Comments so far

timtimPosted on12:43 am - Dec 13, 2012


Number 1 on the SFAs kist list is Charles Greens ring

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AuldheidPosted on12:49 am - Dec 13, 2012


John Clarke

I agree that they slipped up there but am not sure who and how many ” they” are.

They do however have a form of official recognition and rather than invent another fans group trying to get attention at the SFA gates I would suggest ways are found to use SD as the wooden horse.

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AuldheidPosted on12:49 am - Dec 13, 2012


John Clarke

I agree that they SD slipped up there but am not sure who and how many ” they” are.

They do however have a form of official recognition and rather than invent another fans group trying to get attention at the SFA gates I would suggest ways are found to use SD as the wooden horse.

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john clarkePosted on1:27 am - Dec 13, 2012


Auldheid says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 00:49
‘I agree that they SD slipped up there but am not sure who and how many ” they” are.’

Heard ye the first time.:)

I agree that the composition , and the position and ethos of SD, should be carefully examined for evidence that it does what it says on its tin.

The meeting that I had subscribed to attend at Falkirk was cancelled.

I was not advised of the date of the re-arranged meeting.

Does not fill me with confidence in their basic administration skills.

And I shall be in Australia for about three months from early January, so cannot get immediately involved in checking it out!

The critical point is to make sure that SD, in open, democratic, representative debate of issues affecting Scottish Football, reflects the will of the ‘majority of club’ supporters.

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john clarkePosted on1:59 am - Dec 13, 2012


Auldheid says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 00:35
‘What we need is a statement of intent from the SFA that commits them to governing the game in such a way that sporting merit and integrity will always take precedence over the commercial considerations that have almost destroyed it…’
—-
Sadly, the present Board of the SFA is so heavily compromised by its failures to date, that there is no way that anything they say could possibly have any moral authority.

I don’t know when the next ordinary AGM of the SFA membership is due?

But whether at an ordinary AGM or at an EGM, the SFA membership should sweep the Board clean, so that Scottish Football can breathe untainted, uncompromised air, and get to grips with the cancer that threatens its very life.

The cancer of chancers ( oops, chancres) who wickedly exploit genuine loyalty and emotion, and whip up all kinds of lying chicanery in order to reap huge personal profit while destroying the very concept of sport.

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Humble PiePosted on2:27 am - Dec 13, 2012


Failing to Plan or Planning to Fail ?

The Rangers International Football Club IPO prospectus has a whiff of The Nigerian scam about it. Never mind that there already exists a team called Rangers International Football Club, based in Engu, Nigeria (which can be found here http://www.rangersinternationalfc.com) but also because, as everyone with an internet connection knows, only the totally gullible would ever fall for it.

The swindle normally involves the wife or son of a deposed African leader who has amassed a stolen fortune, or a bank employee who knows of a terminally ill wealthy person with no relatives or a wealthy foreigner who deposited money in the bank just before dying in a plane crash (leaving no will or known next of kin).

The Nigerian ‘Advance Fee’ Scam (also known internationally as ‘419 fraud’ after the section of the Nigerian penal code which addresses fraud schemes) is generally targeted at small investors. This global sting (recently seen in America, Russia, Southeast Asia, Australia, and New Zealand, as well as the UK) usually involves the receipt of an unsolicited email purporting to come from someone who claims to work for the Nigerian Central Bank or from the Nigerian government. (The Central Bank of Nigeria denies all connection to those who promote this scheme.)

In the letter, a Nigerian claiming to be a senior civil servant will inform the recipient that he is seeking a reputable foreign company into whose account he can deposit funds ranging from £10-£60 million which the Nigerian government overpaid on some procurement contract.

The goal of the scam artist is to delude the victim into thinking that he or she has been singled out to participate in a very lucrative (although questionable) arrangement. The intended victim is reassured of the authenticity of the arrangement by using forged or false documents bearing apparently official government letterhead, seals, as well as false letters of credit, payment schedules and bank drafts. The conman may even establish the credibility of his contacts, and thereby his influence, by arranging a meeting between the victim and ‘officials’ in real or fake offices.

As soon as the victim becomes confident of the potential success of the deal, something goes wrong. The victim is then pressured (or threatened) to provide one or more large sums of money to ‘save’ the venture. For example, an official will demand an up-front bribe or an unforeseen tax or fee to the Nigerian government will have to be paid before the money can be transferred. Each fee paid is described as the ‘very last’ fee required. The scheme may be stretched out over many months.

As you would expect, the vast majority of recipients do not respond to these emails, however, a very small percentage do. This is enough to make the fraud worthwhile, as many millions of messages can be sent. Substantial sums of money (but very much smaller than the promised profits) are said to be required ‘in advance’ for bribes, fees, etc. This is the money being stolen from the victim, who thinks he or she is investing to make a profit.

This ‘The Rangers’ share issue is nothing more than a SCAM. Investing your hard-earned cash to prop-up a dead club with the uncertain promise of potential future ‘profits’ emanating from the cold cadaver of the Rangers brand makes neither financial nor logical sense. Encouraging the obviously deluded and the wilfully ignorant to make an ’emotional investment’ in this fantasy (especially during the Christmas period) is just taking advantage of the ‘dafties’. Both STV and the Daily Retard should be ashamed of themselves.

The simple truth is that ‘Rangers’ are dead and no amount of claimed ‘world record attendances’ or rhetorical poppycock can change that. Make no mistake about it, the SFL3 team calling themselves ‘The Rangers’ currently playing in blue at Ibrox is an entirely new club, formed barely 6 months ago.

As Spike Milligan brilliantly observed, “Just because a cat has kittens in an oven, that doesn’t make them biscuits”

Caveat emptor – Invest at your peril.

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ExiledCeltPosted on5:13 am - Dec 13, 2012


corsicacharity says:

Wednesday, December 12, 2012 at 22:20

This is the details from the land register for Ibrox as at end-July 2012 (I have had to cut and paste as there is some data that could identify individuals):

Application Number – 12GLA16376
Date of Application – 15/06/2012
Application Status – Confirmed
Consideration – Implementation of Agreement
Title Number – GLA210958
Application Type – First Registration
Parent Title Number – Not Available
Applicant(s) Name and Address – SEVCO SCOTLAND LIMITED, CAPELLA, 60 YORK STREET, GLASGOW G2 8JX
Property address – IBROX STADIUM, EDMINSTON DRIVE, GLASGOW G51 2XD.
Granter(s) Name and Address – RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
Agent No. – 5907
Deed Type – Disposition
Additional Information – THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB PLC/ SEVCO SCOTLAND LIMITED – pp application not on bops

Afraid that is all we could find and don’t ask me to interpret it. I THINK it means that sevco scotland own Ibrox.

************

Spot on – I worked in my early years at Land Registry just as it was moving into the IT age away from the glue pots and large sasine books 🙂

First registration is because its the first time its being registered since the computerisation of titles for Glasgow sasine in early 1980’s – which makes sense since the last owners were someone who has onwed it for many years.

Deed Type – dispositoin – that is the sale of the propert. A Standard security wouuld be a secured loan on the property

Looks like we have a piece of the jigsaw – finally!

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iceman63Posted on5:46 am - Dec 13, 2012


Worrying signs in the VB statement. We are I fear heading into uncharted waters. The delusional aggression within it,the disturbing imagery of the physical pain and the strident demands that others are to blame for it all presage worse to come. I fear a genuine meltdowm and outpuring of anger from these people whch will be explosive violent and misdirected. Dark forces indeed, emboldened by the weakness of those in authority to act decisively and honestly.
I hope I am wrong.

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secularfootballfanPosted on6:42 am - Dec 13, 2012


thereek on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 at 23:43

…most of us on this site were interested in the Scottish game as a whole. Instead we’re getting drawn into a provincial (I don’t use the term diddy) club versus Celtic argument.
…………………..

Agreed – it drifted off topic – however the issue of power in Scottish football remains pertinent, which was where the discussion was going before that.

For example, shareholding of senior SFA members creates serious conflicts. Would be interesting to see if any SFA members have bought or registered to buy new football shares?

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barcabhoyPosted on7:04 am - Dec 13, 2012


Allow me to sidetrack for a moment, it’s only a minor detour and has a relevance to Rangers current predicament .

The current vogue is for the Rangers support to accept Charles Green’s pronouncements as if they were being brought to the table by Warren Buffett or Bill Gates.

This ignores the reality that what got Rangers into trouble was precisely this unconditional acceptance of the utterances of the two previous owners

A reminder that the Chief of the Bluenoses can and often does speak with forked tongue.

Let me give you a little example of Murrayspeak, which hasn’t been highlighted before

This is from May 9th 2010, in an interview with the well known financial journalist Ian Fraser

Murray told The Sunday Times: “We’ve been unlucky but we’re here, we’re fighting. We’re in a far better place than we were a year ago and we will not have to revalue our property portfolio again, because we’ve taken the hit and you had to do that. Our bank’s secure, property is on the way back, the football club is winning and metal prices are going up.”
In bullish form, Murray predicted that in MIH’s current financial year, which ends on June 30, it will be backin the black due to a rebound in the steel price and because there will be less of an obligation to make property write-downs.

So , on May 9th Murray is claiming his business will make a profit. 7 weeks later the year ends and MIH makes a LOSS of £69 million

Now this doesn’t seem like bad luck or over optimism. It does however seem like the nonsense Charles Green comes out with on a regular basis. Green of course has no track record of substance either as an entrepreneur or a CEO, so anyone taking him seriously on financial matters does so at their own risk.

To have a ownership group that goes from Murray to Whyte to Green seems particularly bad luck for Rangers, however you often what you deserve so maybe it’s not bad luck at all.

Just in case anyone was wondering if maybe Murray just got the date of his “return to profitability ” wrong by a year, then sadly he did not . In 2011 MIH made a LOSS of £87 million. However for all those insightful and trusting investment managers, I’m sure Charles will be much more accurate with his forecasts of future wealth, profits and 400% growth in shareholder value

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barcabhoyPosted on7:05 am - Dec 13, 2012


You can read it all here

http://www.ianfraser.org/i’m-still-in-the-game-says-murray/

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TartawulverPosted on8:55 am - Dec 13, 2012


barcabhoy says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 07:05

http://www.ianfraser.org/i’m-still-in-the-game-says-murray/

But there remain unanswered questions about Murray’s business empire, including what will happen to the £70m that Rangers owes MIH and whether the bank rolled some of his debt into equity simply because it was unrepayable
——————————————-
“£70m that Rangers owes MIH”? That’s presumably related to old/passed on Rangers and not to the Green and Blues?

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borussiabeefburgPosted on9:09 am - Dec 13, 2012


Monitors and mods: I see a couple of my posts have gone, and although not disenchanted, I’m a bit surprised.

“ordinaryfan” asked a question, which I answered factually, with no reference to any areas which could be disputed (eg, I didn’t refer in any way to refereeing decisions).

He asked ‘I would be interested to know where you believe Celtic have received “advantages” that other Clubs did not. Any examples?’

I won’t rewrite the examples I gave, as they have already been moderated and removed. I don’t even expect an explanation: this isn’t my site, after all.

But I offered these examples in an attempt to provide a balance to this site, and I see “Auldheid” responding later to my comments. No point in me making a comeback to his words it appears.

Not disillusioned, as I write, but a bit taken aback that, as I try to widen the debate to include more than oldRangers/Sevco discussion, someone has seen fit to dismiss my responses to questions set by another poster. By leaving that query by “ordinaryfan” appearing as though unanswered, it makes me wonder what else I read here has been presented in an unbalanced fashion.

S’pose it’s only the internet…………….

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jimlarkinPosted on9:24 am - Dec 13, 2012


http://ibroxnoise.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/lets-sue-rangers.html

at least 1 person willing to actually ask questions…but…again, the reasoning is, why are people “against” ‘rangers’ ?

he is questioning the “67” players represented by the SPFA – ET claim.

he doesn’t question the “fact” that chuckles was the source of that number in the IPO.
he questions sone aluko’s involvement as aluko said he isn’t involved.

chuckles was on stv doing an interview and he stated categorically then that sone aluko is one of them.

two differing versions…so much for “confidentiallity” when it comes to all things sevco.

also, the great myth –
WE DON’T DO WALKING AWAY

when you have a family to look after and your employer goes bust, can’t pay the VAT or NIC…has a list of creditors that reads like a song sheet and total debts are into the tens of millions and you have been forced to take a wage deferrel/reduction to help the employer.
the employer goes into liquidation and you are basically out of a job. if you are lucky, you will get some kind of redundancy pay (with notice), but like jjb sports, woolworths etc, that’s it. the employer has gone under. you have to find a new “job” somewhere PDQ.

what are you meant to do?

do you hang about with no money coming in, or do you find a new employer ?

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angus1983Posted on9:26 am - Dec 13, 2012


“Implementation of Agreement: The transfer of property from one party to another after an understanding about a particular issue has been reached, for example on divorce.”

Title Deeds can be had, if anyone is interested and has a spare £30, from here (“Title Register & Plan”):

http://landregistryservice.co.uk/index.php?page=service&act=list&country=3&gclid=CLmg9q2Hl7QCFXDLtAodnXIAWQ

“The Title Register contains a description of the property. From the Title Register you can find out who owns the house or land, the address of the owner, the tenure, price paid/value stated information if sold since April 2000 and any rights of way or restrictions & covenants on the land noted on the register. It contains the details of the registered charges and leases (if any) affecting the property.”

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Ian58Posted on10:01 am - Dec 13, 2012


angus1983 @ 09:26

I don’t feel competent enough to do that but I’d be happy to make a donation towards enabling someone more knowledgeable to do so.
(And any other properties that may be of interest!)

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thereekPosted on10:18 am - Dec 13, 2012


secularfootballfan says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 06:42
5 1
Rate This

thereek on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 at 23:43

…most of us on this site were interested in the Scottish game as a whole. Instead we’re getting drawn into a provincial (I don’t use the term diddy) club versus Celtic argument.
…………………..

Agreed – it drifted off topic – however the issue of power in Scottish football remains pertinent, which was where the discussion was going before that.

For example, shareholding of senior SFA members creates serious conflicts. Would be interesting to see if any SFA members have bought or registered to buy new football shares?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
General point to mods – Kind of makes debate a bit tricky when posts are being removed retrospectively. How does someone coming along now agree/dispute my comments at 23.43 when they’re not there to be read ? I see borussia touches on a similar issue at 9.09 today.

Secular – don’t disagree that the issue of power is pertinent, from memory the posts were going off line and seemed to be focusing on the 6 yard box at the beach end of Gayfield hence my remarks.

Generally speaking on shareholdings we know that at least the chairmen of Berwick, Airdrie Utd, Cowdenbeath & Stenhousemuir all held shares in RFC. All what may be termed ‘small’ clubs so how does that play when we talk about power in the game ? Were they ever conflicted in the past ? Mr Peat had long standing connections with 2 of those clubs and was succeeded at the SFA by Mr Ogilvie who retained his RFC shares while at HMFC then transferred them to his wife when he followed Mr Peat. Any conflicts with these 2 individuals ?

Celtic did of course have a small shareholding in RFC but this was quickly sold when Fergus McCann came on the scene. Don’t know if they were sold at profit but knowing Fergus….

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Billy BoycePosted on10:32 am - Dec 13, 2012


thereek says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 10:18

Celtic did of course have a small shareholding in RFC but this was quickly sold when Fergus McCann came on the scene. Don’t know if they were sold at profit but knowing Fergus….
——————————————————————

I recall a Celtic offical stating the reason why the club had a share(s) in Rangers F.C. was in order to receive and monitor its balance sheet as well as attend its AGMs. That would be a prudent move by any rival company/club and I’m sure Rangers F.C. would have done likewise with Celtic, particulary with Murray at the helm.

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angus1983Posted on11:09 am - Dec 13, 2012


Quoted on BBC Gossip page, source The Sun (but strangely not on the Sun site) …

“Rangers chief executive Charles Green says the Ibrox club will not join a second division of the Scottish Premier League while it continues its investigation into alleged dual contracts by the previous administration and threatens to withdraw titles.”

Sounds fine to me.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on11:21 am - Dec 13, 2012


angus1983 says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 11:09
2 0 Rate This
Quoted on BBC Gossip page, source The Sun (but strangely not on the Sun site) …

“Rangers chief executive Charles Green says the Ibrox club will not join a second division of the Scottish Premier League while it continues its investigation into alleged dual contracts by the previous administration and threatens to withdraw titles.”

———————————-

surely something needs to be said about this – either by the SPL or the SFA

what CG is essentially saying is “we won’t allow the leagues governing body to investigate us”

So, where does this stop?

if they are “hauled up” for one of their many indiscretions against the rules and refuse to go …. are Partick Thistle then boycotted?

come on SFA/SPL – grow a feckin set…!

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jimlarkinPosted on11:25 am - Dec 13, 2012


thereek on Wednesday, December 12, 2012 at 23:43

…most of us on this site were interested in the Scottish game as a whole. Instead we’re getting drawn into a provincial (I don’t use the term diddy) club versus Celtic argument.
…………………..

Agreed – it drifted off topic – however the issue of power in Scottish football remains pertinent, which was where the discussion was going before that.

For example, shareholding of senior SFA members creates serious conflicts. Would be interesting to see if any SFA members have bought or registered to buy new football shares?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
General point to mods – Kind of makes debate a bit tricky when posts are being removed retrospectively. How does someone coming along now agree/dispute my comments at 23.43 when they’re not there to be read ? I see borussia touches on a similar issue at 9.09 today.

Secular – don’t disagree that the issue of power is pertinent, from memory the posts were going off line and seemed to be focusing on the 6 yard box at the beach end of Gayfield hence my remarks.

Generally speaking on shareholdings we know that at least the chairmen of Berwick, Airdrie Utd, Cowdenbeath & Stenhousemuir all held shares in RFC. All what may be termed ‘small’ clubs so how does that play when we talk about power in the game ? Were they ever conflicted in the past ? Mr Peat had long standing connections with 2 of those clubs and was succeeded at the SFA by Mr Ogilvie who retained his RFC shares while at HMFC then transferred them to his wife when he followed Mr Peat. Any conflicts with these 2 individuals ?

Celtic did of course have a small shareholding in RFC but this was quickly sold when Fergus McCann came on the scene. Don’t know if they were sold at profit but knowing Fergus…
====================================================================

remember the hugh dallas “joke” emails.

one of the alleged initiators of that email was a man named David Dowling.
David Dowling was on the sfa – referee committee (and maybe others), and apparantly
David Dowling was also allegedly a shareholder in rangers and allegedly a rangers season ticket holder as well.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:31 am - Dec 13, 2012


One high wage earner to return?.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/dorin-goian-is-heading-back-to-rangers-109853n.19661815

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abigboydiditandranawayPosted on11:37 am - Dec 13, 2012


Would it be possible if moderators when removing posts gave a succint reason for doing so? This would help those of us who are sometimes surprised by the appearance of answers to unasked questions…

and while we’re at it, YES an edit facility would be lovely Santa!

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wottpiPosted on11:48 am - Dec 13, 2012


Rangers chief executive Charles Green says the Ibrox club will not join a second division of the Scottish Premier League while it continues its investigation into alleged dual contracts by the previous administration and threatens to withdraw titles.”

===========================================================================

This is of course just rabble rousing by Mr Charles for the IPO and bing cute with his language.

If LNS sits in January as proposed then the result is likely to be announced before any reconstruction.

Therefore the investigation and verdict will be over and Mr Charles can then join SPL 1, 2 or 100 without going back on what he says today.

The reality is that the Prospectus links Rangers financial success and those of its employees directly to the SPL or its successor.

“Alistair McCoist
Under an employment agreement dated 28 December 2010 (but effective as at 8 January
2007) and which transferred to RFCL pursuant to the APA, further details of which are
summarised in paragraph 12.1.1 of Part XIII of this document RFCL employs Alistair
McCoist as the First Team Manager of the Club with a salary commensurate with his
experience and the payment received by people similarly employed in the football industry,
plus all business expenses reasonably and properly incurred. In addition, Mr McCoist is
entitled to bonus payments should the following events occur:

(i) the Club wins the SPL and an additional bonus if this leads to automatic qualification to the Champions League Group;”

“Mr Green is also entitled to a bonus of 100 per cent. of his gross salary in the event that the Club wins promotion from the SFL or otherwise transfers to another football league;

“Mr Stockbridge is also entitled to a bonus
of 100 per cent. of his gross salary in the event that the Club wins promotion from the SFL or
otherwise transfers to another football league or to another division within a league”

If I was McCoist I’d be checking my contract because he is specifically tied to the SPL!!!!

View Comment

thereekPosted on11:50 am - Dec 13, 2012


Tommy says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 10:32
4 0
Rate This

thereek says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 10:18

Celtic did of course have a small shareholding in RFC but this was quickly sold when Fergus McCann came on the scene. Don’t know if they were sold at profit but knowing Fergus….
——————————————————————

I recall a Celtic offical stating the reason why the club had a share(s) in Rangers F.C. was in order to receive and monitor its balance sheet as well as attend its AGMs. That would be a prudent move by any rival company/club and I’m sure Rangers F.C. would have done likewise with Celtic, particulary with Murray at the helm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fergus didn’t think it very prudent. He got shot of them sharpish. Just after he showed BoS the door.

But you never know Big Peter might have his application in already for the new shares.

View Comment

exfallhoose2012Posted on11:53 am - Dec 13, 2012


I think that the SFA/SPL should accept Hughie’s statement for what it is – an honourable promise from an honourable man. It is the best argument yet for an immediate recontruction. It is not against the rules not to want to play in the SPL – he couldn’t break their rules even it it was, as he is not in the SPL.
No, let’s wait to see who blinks first! I am sure that there are clubs in the lower divisions who would be happy to move up in his place … presuming that the Govan club were invited to move up.

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thereekPosted on11:59 am - Dec 13, 2012


abigboydiditandranaway says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 11:37
2 0
Rate This

Would it be possible if moderators when removing posts gave a succint reason for doing so? This would help those of us who are sometimes surprised by the appearance of answers to unasked questions…

and while we’re at it, YES an edit facility would be lovely Santa!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Good idea about a quick word to say why from the mods. What do you say mods ?

View Comment

SmugasPosted on12:18 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Two points on Chuckie’s latest.

Firstly he quite deliberately misses the words “were we to be invited” from the end of his statement. That would seem, to me at least, to be more accurate, however genuine. It would be quite easy for Doncaster to clarify of course.

Secondly the LNS enquiry is not a witch hunt to strip titles. It galls me that many of you are apparently falling into the trap of the lie said often enough. (I know most of you aren’t, you’re just understandably buckling under the incessant misinformation to the contrary). At the risk of teaching granny the art of egg sucking, titles being stripped, were it to happen, will be a consequence of playing ineligible players and results being reversed. It is not a punishment for playing ineligible players if the competition is not on a knock out basis.

Put yourself in the mythical ‘Rangers men’s’ shoes at board level. Your instruction a year ago was to drop the debt, gather in some more working capital from anyone gullible enough to supply it, stay in as high a league as possible and get the enquiries dropped. If it costs you a couple of worthless titles so be it, although if it does for goodness sake sell it to the bearz as an injustice, might just raise some extra shekels to spend on your next inevitable ‘warchest.’

With that background, how would you say they are getting on so far.

View Comment

secularfootballfanPosted on12:31 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Generally speaking on shareholdings we know that at least the chairmen of Berwick, Airdrie Utd, Cowdenbeath & Stenhousemuir all held shares in RFC. All what may be termed ‘small’ clubs so how does that play when we talk about power in the game ? Were they ever conflicted in the past ? Mr Peat had long standing connections with 2 of those clubs and was succeeded at the SFA by Mr Ogilvie who retained his RFC shares while at HMFC then transferred them to his wife when he followed Mr Peat.
……………………. ……….

To be fair it is a bug-bear of mine, however as I see it, those in a position of power and responsibilty should not be holding shares in companies which may result in questions of probity. I seem to remember reading SFA rules to that effect though in the past but it doesn’t appear well enforced.

There is a balance to be stuck between finding folk with suitable experience and those who are willing to ditch any previous allegences to perform the role satisfactorily, however the SFA leaves itself open to criticism in its current approach (IMO).

View Comment

spanishceltPosted on12:39 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Regards Greens latest nonsense about taking part in a new SPL2 , The SFA should simply release a statement the if and when a new set up is agreed no clubs will be invited but that ALL interested clubs will be considered after they forward a written application.
Dont invite them (or anyone), make them ask IF we will accept them and shut them to fk up.

View Comment

paulmac2Posted on12:44 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Auldheid says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 00:35
—————————————

I agree..

However it is astonishing that Campbell Ogilvie is still at the SFA.

His position has been comprimised entirley..

He has an £95k EBT loan from a club who (although now liquidated) still have enough influence to encourage a favourable decision towards any club they so wish…including punishments against others.

With his EBT loan still hanging over his head that can be recalled at any time… how can that individual be expected to provide honest, fair and transparent decisions regarding Triggers broom?

Whether they would recall or not is irrelevent…it is the threat to do so that is the persuader!

View Comment

wottpiPosted on12:48 pm - Dec 13, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 11:31

One high wage earner to return?.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/dorin-goian-is-heading-back-to-rangers-109853n.19661815

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And also time to keep an eye on the number of over 21’s as per the SFL limit on squads. From recollection still got room to play with but every ‘oldie’ returiong from loan or signing (when they can) gets T’Rangers closer to the limit.

View Comment

rabPosted on12:51 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Charlie is basically saying, stop your investigations into our cheating or we wont allow you to break more rules to allow us into the top league so we can start cheating you all again.

You’re not really influencing anyone with that logic Charlie boy, best have a rethink.

View Comment

Lord WobblyPosted on12:53 pm - Dec 13, 2012


I’m sure it’ll be because The Rangers are not in the SPL…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20700529

View Comment

TSFMPosted on12:59 pm - Dec 13, 2012


borussiabeefburg says:

Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 09:09(Edit)

Monitors and mods: I see a couple of my posts have gone, and although not disenchanted, I’m a bit surprised.
_____________________________________________________________________

We don’t always have time to explain why things are removed, and usually I expect people to infer reasons given the nature of the blog – especially those who have been around for a while.
In this case, the discussion was getting close to the kinds of areas where people start to deliberately misunderstand each other in a rush to take offence.

Questions like “Why do you think [insert thought here]?” are little more than baited traps. It is always a surprise to me that people respond to them, but they do. Moderation-wise, unless we pay someone full time to weed out petty point scoring, the policy is to nip things in the bud.

If people want to talk about the how and why or realities of Celtic being advantaged/disadvantaged then they can do so elsewhere. It’s not in our scope of t.

The post asking the question has been removed as well.

Can you please keep any further comments about moderation away from the main blog in a private message? That is another thing I’ve asked people to do time and time again.

View Comment

parmahamsterPosted on1:03 pm - Dec 13, 2012


http://www.followfollow.com/news/tmnw/get_behind_the_rangers_share_issue_772802/index.shtml

The chief lemming summons his fellow Bears to the clifftop. What’s HE been promised, I wonder? And where deos this leave Chris Graham in the grand scheme of things?

Gotta hand it to Charlie Boy, he’s played this lot like Menuhin on a Stradivarius.

View Comment

rabPosted on1:04 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Anyone who witnessed Goians early season displays will be aware that he could not, would not, did not apply himself in div3 football.

I don’t see whats changed.

This throws up the ‘how many clubs was he registered with this season” question, is it 2 or 3 already, could he move to a third or fourth, this is a job superadministratorman.

Is it a bird.

Is it a plane.

No, its an ostrich.

View Comment

tomtomPosted on1:12 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Reply from the MOD regarding the Remembrance Day fiasco at Ibrox.

“The General Officer Commanding Scotland has now had the opportunity to review the events that took place at Ibrox Park with the other Service heads in Scotland. They share your view that the format of the half time event and the conduct of those taking part in it was inappropriate for Remembrance Weekend, and will take steps to ensure that such events are conducted with appropriate solemnity in the future. They believe that the minute’s silence before the match was the correct way to mark the occasion and Army commenders will be directed to restrict future Remembrance events to this type of activity in the future. The focus of Remembrance activities must be on the fallen, not on those who are serving in the Srmed Forces today”

At least somebody shares our disgust.

View Comment

liveinhopPosted on1:12 pm - Dec 13, 2012


13 Dec 2012, 11:55 AM
I get the on-line Investors Chronicle.

This is their take on it today.

Answers some of the questions as to why would anyone invest in that basket case ?

Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) plc is expected to join London’s junior market on 19 December. For fans, that means the opportunity to grab a stake in Glasgow Rangers, ZERO-times Scottish champions, as an early Christmas present LOL. The official name is now Rangers Football Club Ltd. RIFC is to own and operate Rangers FC, which, after being liquidated earlier this year has been shoe-horned into the lower leagues at the expense of other more deserving teams.

The completely unrealistic, bonkers structure has not prevented Charles Green, chief executive, from talking utter dross to anybody who will listen, including some presumably silly institutional investors ahead of the Aim listing. Mr Green had originally intended to raise £20m from the IPO, but £17m has already been committed, at 70p a share, from a range of investors. These include Hargreave Hale, which is to purchase 4.95m shares and acquire an 8.58 per cent stake (before the public offer). Artemis (7.43 per cent), Cazenove Capital (4.25 per cent) and Legal & General (3.47 per cent) are among the other investors. Pre-IPO investors also include Mike Ashley, UK retail entrepreneur and owner of Newcastle United, who has 3m shares.

Mr Green expects the public offer to raise another £10m, taking the IPO total up to £27m. £500 is the minimum price to get a stake in RIFC, which is likely to deter fans based on their previous take up of past offerings. According to one source, speaking to Investors Chronicle, Capita Registrars has received subscription demand for RIFC shares totalling £24m, on the internets LOL.

True, there are some concerns. Playing badly in Scotland’s fourth tier because no matter how badly they behaved, the country thinks it needs a strong ranjurs so they were parachuted in all matey like. A return to the ritual beating in Europe is still some years away. The prospectus also mentions the threat of legal action from some players, complaining they were not consulted about contract changes after the old club was liquidated. Mr Green is no doubt counting on Rangers worldwide fan base, estimated to be in excess of the 100,000 cretins who roam the streets of South Glasgow and a few bampots in Northern Ireland.

IC VIEW:
There are few reasons to think this football IPO might buck the trend of awful performance by football investments. The assets – which include Ibrox (the club’s stadium), the Murray Park training facility, the players and the brand – add up to around £30M max. Expected season ticket sales will drop as prices go back up. RIFC could be sitting on a net cash pile of £1M once the vultures have fed. KDS gives RIFC a market cap of LOL. One to avoid.

View Comment

rabPosted on1:17 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Lord Wobbly.

Is the reasoning behind the D Utd boycott so that The rangers can have a world record low attendance for away fans, to add to their long list of world record breaking achievements.

If you want to be the best.

And you want to beat the rest.

Ooh ooh medications what you need.

View Comment

AuldheidPosted on1:31 pm - Dec 13, 2012


John Clark
Paulmac2

John I remember that cancelled meeting too. I was not surprised but my understanding is that SD are the SFA’s chosen ones some say to give the appearance of listening to the support. Not sure how they are constituted but you are right in that more attention needs to be paid to what they do and more important do not do.

Paul
I had forgotten about Campbell Ogilvie and one way for him to begin to restore trust in the SFA would be to step down. I have just responded on Paul MConville’s blog on the matter of restoring trust and had I remembered Campbell Ogilve, his resignation would have been included. Here is what I said that repeats some of my previous post to which you responded but is a key issue and something I would like TSFM to consider how to make happen.

You (ecojohn) raise a very very important point about Chico and that is that he has given those who do not support The Rangers no reason to trust him and even true blues are suspicious.

Untrustworthiness does not confine itself to what is said, it is inseparable from the actions of the speaker. So how on earth can the rest of Scottish football trust a club whose owner is seen as untrustworthy that he and his club will abide by the spirit and rules of the game where it does not suit their cause? This key issue seems to have got lost in the subsequent shenanagins after administration.

When Jim Traynor says other fans hate The Rangers he has the verb wrong, some might, but I venture that the vast majority do not TRUST them or the football authorities. Without that trust OUR game is a bogey and yet Jim Traynor who poured scorn on sporting integrity is now Head of The Rangers Communications. It defies belief..

It is for that reason I suggest that the SFA, The SPL and the SFL all sign up to a statement that makes sporting integrity and sporting merit a core value that will govern all their decisions and actions.

I would go further and say that it is the SFA’s job to ensure that whatever the leagues get up to in terms of their commercial contracts and business dealings/reconstruction the SFA ‘s purpose (what is it anyway?) is to ensure that sporting integrity and merit are observed,not violated and are paramount.

Before any reconstruction proposals are accepted by supporters at large (and this includes the The Rangers support who have been mutual victims, willing ones some will say in their case, of the SFA not putting a check on SDM’s behaviour ) the governing bodies must come out with proposals that satisfy Scottish football supporters that the SFA are a transparent and accountable organisation who will govern Scottish football honestly because the last thing that can be said of The Rangers under Charles Green is that they appear ready to behave in an honest manner.

I have written on this before at

http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=856:in-whom-do-we-trust&catid=47:season-2011-2012&Itemid=83 and the issue is still very much alive regardless of how the FTT case finally works out and until such times as trust restorative steps are taken Scottish supports should reject any reconstruction plans.

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coineanachantaighePosted on1:39 pm - Dec 13, 2012


liveinhop says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 13:12
———————————–

You are mixing up your own opinions (which may very well be more accurate) with those of the article which you appear to quote – I assume this was a copy/paste problem.

The article is here: http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/2012/12/13/shares/news-and-analysis/rangers-to-debut-on-aim-Cfp9SvZqxYCJG1VyljMyYI/article.html

There are a few obvious inaccuracies in the article – pointed out by the single commentor, laurencemcmahon (you by any chance?).

Nothing wrong with what you said but we should be more careful than the MSM in distinguishing quote from intepretation of quote.

View Comment

ismellafixPosted on1:56 pm - Dec 13, 2012


paulsatim says:

Tuesday, December 11, 2012 at 23:51

………………………………………………………………………..

The link to the Green STV interview is still there, a couple of pages back. If you have the time watch the video link, however watch it in mute mode. Watching it in mute will ensure you do not get distracted by the drivel coming from his mouth and can focus on his body language.

Observe how many times Green looks down or down and right before he answers, (what is it they say about downright liars?). I have studied body language and been to various seminars where this topic has been on the agenda. On one of these occasions, we were “entertained” by an ex-special forces instructor, who interviewed several of the audience members, (one of which was a colleague of mine). Suffice to say, in almost “Derren Brown” style, he was able to uncover embarrassing truths from each of the volunteers, purely by using his body language skills.

It is possible to coach people to help hide these tell-tale signs, as was the SAS guy’s job, however he himself stated that this is very difficult, requires many many hours of practice and even then is not foolproof. It is very easy to let your guard down and any reasonably savvy onlooker can spot any weaknesses.

Perhaps Charlie should have spent some time on this type of training before volunteering himself as the mouthpiece for a con of this magnitude.

My advice to any fans of The Rangers/Inter Sevco or whatever their name is this week, who are willing to plough their hard earned into this beloved new club. Wait until this shyster and his band of mercenaries have left town and you can be sure that your money will be fully used for the betterment of your club. This could well mean another insolvency event, however I believe, based on the loyalty of the fans backing so far, there can be a future for some kind of a Rangers team.

You need to prepare for a long hard road, (not a quick magical fix) if you want to get back to near the top of Scottish football. Donating your collective monies into the greasy palms of these venture capitalists will only end in disaster and tears. I’m not sure the will or the means will then be there to pick up the pieces again. Whatever you decide, good luck. You’re going to need it!!!!

View Comment

Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia)Posted on2:01 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Going back a bit to the return of Dorin Goian…

torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 11:31
6 0 i Rate This

One high wage earner to return?.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/dorin-goian-is-heading-back-to-rangers-109853n.19661815

I loved the irony of the following:

“He contested an 88th- minute winner for Juve Stabia in a 3-2 defeat so strenuously, he manhandled referee Maurizio Ciampi, who promptly sent him off”

Don’t the Italians know this is perfectly acceptable?? Although you do need to be wearing a blue jersey at the time

View Comment

ismellafixPosted on2:11 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Re. Body language;

Forgot to say one of the most telling “downright” looks was when the questioner/prompter asked whether he had enough funds to run the club. Also try watching it with automatic captions on. Seems to make more sense. 😉

View Comment

AuldheidPosted on2:19 pm - Dec 13, 2012


ismellafix says:

Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 13:56

I share your scepticism but Rangers supporters realising there is no Prince Charming have sided with the pantomime villain.

The panto villain will get them up and running and run off with the goose or the golden egg but will leave enough behind to keep supporters happy they have a game to go and watch.

Cue

Oh no he won’t

Oh yes he will. (its that time of year)

View Comment

spanishceltPosted on2:35 pm - Dec 13, 2012


I think Green has missed the boat as far as maximizing the amount he will get from fans in any share issue.
A few months ago he was openly saying that if the fans dont buy the shares the club is finished, now he has told the world that the shares are over subscribed plus with all the hype he has created(with the help of the scottish football authorities) many of their fans now believe they are too big to fail and where a short time ago they would have put put their last penny in they now believe he will save them even without their money and only the ones who can afford an expensive wall plaque will buy.

View Comment

angus1983Posted on2:55 pm - Dec 13, 2012


tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 13:12

Reply from the MOD regarding the Remembrance Day fiasco at Ibrox.
——

Get that sent round the MSM and see if anyone has the balls to print it. May be worth copying in Alex Thomson, Tam Cowan, Tom English, Aidan Smith at SoS, and the boy Cosgrove (though I’m sure he’ll read it anyway).

View Comment

angus1983Posted on3:02 pm - Dec 13, 2012


liveinhop says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 13:12
—–
As pointed out by Mr Rabbit above, here’s the text that’s actually on the Investor’s Chronicle site:

Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) plc is expected to join London’s junior market on 19 December. For fans, that means the opportunity to grab a stake in Glasgow Rangers, 54-times Scottish champions, as an early Christmas present. The official name is now Rangers Football Club Ltd. RIFC is to own and operate Rangers FC, which, after exiting administration earlier this year, is now debt-free but plying its trade in the fourth tier of Scottish football.

The complicated structure has not prevented Charles Green, chief executive, from drumming up interest among institutional investors ahead of the Aim listing. Mr Green had originally intended to raise £20m from the IPO, but £17m has already been committed, at 70p a share, from a range of investors. These include Hargreave Hale, which is to purchase 4.95m shares and acquire an 8.58 per cent stake (before the public offer). Artemis (7.43 per cent), Cazenove Capital (4.25 per cent) and Legal & General (3.47 per cent) are among the other investors. Pre-IPO investors also include Mike Ashley, UK retail entrepreneur and owner of Newcastle United, who has 3m shares.

Mr Green expects the public offer to raise another £10m, taking the IPO total up to £27m. Although £500 is the minimum price to get a stake in RIFC, that is unlikely to deter fans. According to one source, speaking to Investors Chronicle, Capita Registrars has received subscription demand for RIFC shares totalling £24m.

True, there are some concerns. Languishing in Scotland’s fourth tier as punishment for going into administration, lucrative European football is some years away. The prospectus also mentions the threat of legal action from some players, complaining they were not consulted about contract changes after the old club was liquidated. Mr Green is no doubt counting on Rangers worldwide fan base, estimated to be in excess of 5m, to more than offset those negatives.

IC VIEW:
There are some reasons to think this football IPO might buck the trend of awful performance by football investments. For one thing, the assets – which include Ibrox (the club’s stadium), the Murray Park training facility, the players and the brand – add up to around £100m. Moreover, by next May – when totting up the money from pre-IPO fundraising, the Aim listing and expected season ticket sales – RIFC could be sitting on a net cash pile of £50m. The IPO, however, gives RIFC a market cap of £50m. One to watch.

View Comment

youtawknabootPosted on3:31 pm - Dec 13, 2012


angus1983 says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 15:02

As pointed out by Mr Rabbit above, here’s the text that’s actually on the Investor’s Chronicle site:

“UK barge pole manfacturers experiencing a sudden & unexplained upsurge in sales” 🙂

View Comment

finchleyflyerPosted on3:59 pm - Dec 13, 2012


I think I’ll give the Investor’s Chronicle website a miss when I’m looking at investment advice. If they really think that the assets are worth £100m, they haven’t done their research properly.

As for a £50m cash pile . . . . I fully expect to see TRFC still about next May, but £50m in the bank!!!

Do me a favour, as Arthur Daley used to say.

View Comment

campsiejoePosted on4:10 pm - Dec 13, 2012


You have yourself the question :-

Why would any business want to be sitting on a £50 million cash pile ?
I wonder how Charlie would answer that

View Comment

ismellafixPosted on4:11 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Auldheid;

I share your scepticism but Rangers supporters realising there is no Prince Charming have sided with the pantomime villain.

The panto villain will get them up and running and run off with the goose or the golden egg but will leave enough behind to keep supporters happy they have a game to go and watch.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Getting your pantos in a twist there.

However, I wonder if the share certificates will be delivered with a bag of magic beans as well?

View Comment

rabPosted on4:11 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Finchleyflyer.

The IC also forgot to mention that rfc only exited administration because they entered liquidation. And they state they are lanquishing in the 3rd division as a punishment for entering administration, when in reality, a 10 penalty was the only punishment ( as per the rules at the time ) and a new club was promoted into the scottish leagues ( against the rules ) .

Also, did the IC check the ownership of murray park that Trfc have the benefit of.

View Comment

ordinaryfanPosted on4:27 pm - Dec 13, 2012


campsiejoe says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 16:10
2 0 Rate This
You have yourself the question :-

Why would any business want to be sitting on a £50 million cash pile ?
I wonder how Charlie would answer that

……….

I don’t know why Sevco supporters are not asking Green, why he said he could have 20 billionaire investors if he wanted them, but says they don’t need them! Why ask average fans to pay out hundreds of pounds a couple of weeks before Christmas if he has turned down 20 willing billionaire investors!?

(The article in the Record where he stated this is proving elusive, can anyone help find this?)

View Comment

campsiejoePosted on4:36 pm - Dec 13, 2012


ordinaryfan @ 16:27

Like sheep, they will follow any Messiah
As long as he tells them what they want to hear, they will follow follow to oblivion if that’s where he leads them
In this respect, Charlie is playing a blinder, feeding their delusions of supremacy and encouraging the feelings of persecution, all in the name of a fast buck
As they say, there are none so blind, as those who will not see, and that sums Sevcovians up to a “T”

View Comment

James Anthony BarrPosted on4:42 pm - Dec 13, 2012


“we are subject to greater scrutiny than at any time in the past” True. But as long as you continue to tell the truth, you have nothing to worry about as regards scrutiny.
Overall, a very well written article. I cannot understand why the MSM continue to pander to the meanest of intellects instead of writing this standard of article..
J A Barr

View Comment

wottpiPosted on5:20 pm - Dec 13, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 16:27

Like the FTT 35 players due for tax I’m not sure where the 20 billionaires came from. I think it comes from the talk of the 20 original investors and a general assumption that anyone who has money to burn must be Millionaires.

owever there was mention of 3 billionaires in what appears to have been a press release that did the rounds in the MSM around 10th August

“SPORTS DIRECT magnate Ashley is interested in buying a stake in the Third Division Club along with two other significant figures.

CHARLES GREEN is hopeful Mike Ashley will become one of three billionaire investors in newco Rangers, claiming the Newcastle United owner will help develop the Ibrox club’s brand.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chief-charles-green-hopeful-1245487

The thing that gets me is that for months there has been specualtion about Ashley investing. However there was no fanfare in the press confirming his investment although of course we know he is mentioned in the Prospectus. Presumably he still has his cash in his well ‘feathered pocket’ until the deal is done?

View Comment

iceman63Posted on5:28 pm - Dec 13, 2012


With regards to CG rejecting SPL2-I am guessing a little birdy told him that no invitation would be forthcoming. Loads of parties I have refused to go to that I was not invited to either.

View Comment

jimlarkinPosted on5:43 pm - Dec 13, 2012


wottpi 17.20

The thing that gets me is that for months there has been specualtion about Ashley investing. However there was no fanfare in the press confirming his investment although of course we know he is mentioned in the Prospectus. Presumably he still has his cash in his well ‘feathered pocket’ until the deal is done?

———————————————-

maybe ashley didn’t want the publicity in alba.
the reason being – the risk that celtic and other rival fans wont go near sports direct again.

View Comment

stmileyPosted on5:44 pm - Dec 13, 2012


I also received a reply from the MoD today, it said exactly the same as the ‘tomtomaswell post @13.12’. A reply I am more than satisfied with.

It also pointed out the dedicated day set aside for those who serve – Armed Forces Day. I will no dwell on this subject as it off point for this forum, let us just allow people to reflect and celebrate at the appropriate times, and those who wish to abstain, do so with respect.

*You also have the right to disagree with everything I’ve said.

View Comment

thereekPosted on6:45 pm - Dec 13, 2012


stmiley says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 17:44
5 0
Rate This

I also received a reply from the MoD today, it said exactly the same as the ‘tomtomaswell post @13.12′. A reply I am more than satisfied with.

It also pointed out the dedicated day set aside for those who serve – Armed Forces Day. I will no dwell on this subject as it off point for this forum, let us just allow people to reflect and celebrate at the appropriate times, and those who wish to abstain, do so with respect.

*You also have the right to disagree with everything I’ve said
~~~~~~~~~~
I too wrote to MoD but no reply yet. I also contacted Poppyscotland who responded immediately. I delayed feedback here pending something from MoD but stmiley & others now have that.

Poppyscotland made their disquiet very clear and voiced concern that the poppy symbol may be associated in any way with the content & tone of what happened at Ibrox. It was emphasised they were not involved in anyway in the day’s organisation. The charity confirmed it will raise the whole issue with TRFC & the Armed Forces to avoid any recurrence.

Bit off topic just now I know but there was a lot of criticism here at the time and it was perfectly plain to me, having contacted this body, that they were blameless, they were upset and so why should they share any blame for something the responsibility for which lies elsewhere ? Hence this post.

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RiddriePosted on6:48 pm - Dec 13, 2012


You could have driven a coach and horses through some of Chazza’s waffle, but John ‘The Real’ MacKay wasn’t up to it.

He’s certainly no Jeremy Paxman.

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doontheslopePosted on7:00 pm - Dec 13, 2012


arabest1

Craig Levein might have disagreed with you – albeit for only a few days – after your team’s visit to Ibrox a few seasons ago.

He seemed pretty unambiguous about who the favoured club in Scotland is.

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RiddriePosted on7:01 pm - Dec 13, 2012


stevensanph says:
Wednesday, December 12, 2012 at 08:15

When Whyte took over, Rangers fans were urged to look at his previous.

They didn’t, and instead decided that the info on his past was bogus and just lies.

There is only one reason this share offer should be spurned.

Green’s previous.

Will Rangers fans listen this time?

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ordinaryfanPosted on7:02 pm - Dec 13, 2012


wottpi: Thanks very much for the response. Chuckles 100% said he could have 20 billionaires investors if he wanted them, but he didn’t need them. I won’t be surprised if the articles web address pops up showing one of those pages that states “this page could not be found” if I can manage to track it down!

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arabest1Posted on7:16 pm - Dec 13, 2012


doontheslope, you would need to ask Craig Levein about his comments, most of which I would not disagree with.

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ekbhoyPosted on7:35 pm - Dec 13, 2012


I see the ref debate has started again. What we should be focusing on is that the game is reffed in the style that suits a more European style of football, rather than what we get up in Scotland.

Your pay packet seems to influence the refs as to your ability to shake off a heavy tackle or indeed the punishment for mis-timed tackle,

We can discuss ad nauseam why Celtic have only won a paltry (joking) number of trophies versus east fifes haul, it clearly has nothing to do with the refs favouring a team in hoops.

A priority for Scottish football is to re-invent ourselves and this critically involves how the refs are trained and how they managed the game. I am not advocating that the refs blow up for everything and for example allow the Hoops towards to waltz through the opposition on at will.

During the refs strike Hoops drew 1-1 with Inverness, both sets of players knew that the Luxembourg ref would not stand any nonsense and amazingly a game of football broke out. Inverness tactic of lumping a high ball to the back stick and for a large forward to impede and crawl over a small right back was pulled up several times ( all fouls were committed before the ball arrived) , Inverness gave up and as noted above, we same a game and a fair result

I would suggest that this subject requires attention otherwise we will limp on with the same approach and the refs will be under intolerable pressure when They return to the top league.

Legitimate topic for review in the context of how we improve the game, IMO.

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StevieBCPosted on7:39 pm - Dec 13, 2012


wottpi says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 11:48

Rangers chief executive Charles Green says the Ibrox club will not join a second division of the Scottish Premier League while it continues its investigation into alleged dual contracts by the previous administration and threatens to withdraw titles.”

===========================================================================

This is of course just rabble rousing by Mr Charles for the IPO and bing cute with his language.

If LNS sits in January as proposed then the result is likely to be announced before any reconstruction…
================

IMO, for SFA/SPL/SFL/TRFC purposes, the LNS inquiry will be ‘rescheduled’ to a later date – perhaps on the premise that the administrations need to focus now on ‘saving Scottish football’ wrt restructuring the eagues- and the ‘historical’ investigation can be delayed meantime.

Simultaneously, and at the same time 😉 , the SFA/SPL/SFL will quietly give Charlie ‘the nod/handshake’ that everything will be sorted.

TRFC back playing in the top flight ASAP – with the LNS purposely delayed until after this date.
[Almost a year has passed since the player registration query was raised, so further delays are not implausible.]

This would give the administrations and TRFC more ‘negotiating/threatening’ power over those football fans/clubs who want to see a fair outcome from the LNS inquiry.

If/when LNS concludes the investigation and if TRFC is indeed found to have breached player registration rules, then any subsequent punishment would NOT be commensurate with the level of wrongdoing. It could be limited to financial penalties, IMO.

Although they would love to drop it, I think the LNS inquiry has to be completed, but if the administrations are consistent then the timing will be to maximise benefit to TRFC.

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doontheslopePosted on7:49 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Arabest1

Never felt the need to quiz him about what he said. It was perfectly clear. One team in Scotland enjoy favour, and one team only.

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doontheslopePosted on8:04 pm - Dec 13, 2012


Ara

Have responded but am modded. Probably my punctuation.

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nostarsandbarredPosted on8:30 pm - Dec 13, 2012


StevieBC says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 19:39
0 1 Rate This

The SPL have already advised they know that Oldco breached the rules; the independent inquiry was to save themselves from aggression – I agree with you that the delays will continue, but ultimately the day of reckoning is coming, and anything less than awarding wins to the opposition for the games where players were improperly registered will leave the SPL rule book in tatters; and they know it; they just don’t want to be the people who say it, and enforce it.

They live in fear; and Chuckles knows it; that’s what he’s counting on

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angus1983Posted on8:33 pm - Dec 13, 2012


campsiejoe says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 16:10

Why would any business want to be sitting on a £50 million cash pile ?
I wonder how Charlie would answer that?
——

Next available transfer window – couple of marquee signings at hugely inflated wages?

Learn from history, Mr Green, or repeat its mistakes.

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john clarkePosted on8:45 pm - Dec 13, 2012


tomtomaswell says:
Thursday, December 13, 2012 at 13:12

Nothing in for me from GOC Commanding. Feeling a bit neglected!

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doontheslopePosted on8:48 pm - Dec 13, 2012


StevieBC

A lot depending on LNS findings. If the result is in favour of Rangers(IL), it will, ironically, be the end of Sevco…. and every other Scottish club. No one will go anymore.

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