Good Evening.
As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?
Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.
In truth, that scares me.
It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.
It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.
I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.
Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.
If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.
Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.
However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.
Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.
Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?
I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.
Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.
However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.
As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.
So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?
Any fan representative could be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.
Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.
In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.
Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.
Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?
If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.
In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.
In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.
Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.
Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!
Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.
When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.
The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.
However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.
Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.
The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).
In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.
In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:29 pm
=========================
That’s a lot of words.
The reality is that Follow Follow was banned from being sold at Ibrox because of sectarian comment. They were too bigoted even for Rangers.
The website which is in effect Mr Dingwall is littered with hatred and bile of a racist and sectarian nature. As I said before, if you think constant use of the words I mentioned earlier is OK and for Mr Dingwall to allow it is acceptable that is entirely a matter for you.
I don’t
17. Drew Peacock says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:22 pm
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Celtic Paranoia says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm
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I agree with your comments on the media. It was a very stupid and loaded question with an agenda attached.
What I was asking was that if the Rangers were making such an arse of themselves (as they were) all by themselves why should Lawell care or feel the need to add further ridicule? My point is that this kind of stuff coming from either side is showbiz not football. I prefer matters to be decided on the pitch and to stop feeding the clowns in the media circus.
This is my last word on this issue because it’s not that important to the blog and for the record I think Mr Lawell is doing a grand job at Celtic.
———————————————————————–
Fair enough.
I actually view it as an inocuous comment made in jest at a press conference not for public consumption. Have you actually seen the footage of the statement? It was delivered in a humurous off the cuff manner typical of ‘behind the scenes, blooper’ type footage.
I’m sure if the foot had been on the other foot and SDM or Sir Walter or the cheeky chappie had made the self same comments the same journos would have been falling in the aisles slapping their thighs with laughter at the example of statesmanlike wit. In the early 90s the press went to town slaughtering the Celtic board for their amateurish Cambuslang stadium development PR shambles. No-one piped up about how unfair it was to take the mickey out of poor Kevin Kelly who wis only doing his best. It was a shambles and openly ridiculed as such, just as concocting a non existent £9 million bid from an unknown agent representing and unknown club in an unknown universe can do nothing else but invite ridicule. Like I say, imagine the boot on the other foot…
Any journalist/broadcaster with an agenda will find a way to misrepresent any comment as they see fit. So whilst I sympathise and share your sentiments about farces playing out in the media – your crosshairs are trained on the wrong target. They should be aimed at the spivs and media acolytes who are driving an agenda of smoke and mirrors. Part of that is to drag Celtic into the equation whenever possile – CF has published evidence of this straight from Jack Irvine himself. Also evidence of Darrell King “fighting RFC’s corner”.
The only way to avoid this is for PL to say absolutely NOTHING and I don’t think that’s a realistic option.
The problem isn’t Peter Lawwell making a joke. In fact PL and CFC have been by and large steadfastly silent on RFC’s travails much to the chagrin of many on this site so IMO you’ve made a bigger issue out of it than warranted.
In summary my point is – the media circus will continue to play out whilst we have a media at the beck and call of one club’s succulent lamb, driving almost all public discourse related to Scottish football. Peter Lawwell can’t change that
Gaz says:
June 26, 2013 at 3:01 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 2:29 pm
=========================
That’s a lot of words. The reality is that Follow Follow was banned from being sold at Ibrox because of sectarian comment. They were too bigoted even for Rangers.
The website which is in effect Mr Dingwall is littered with hatred and bile of a racist and sectarian nature. As I said before, if you think constant use of the words I mentioned earlier is OK and for Mr Dingwall to allow it is acceptable that is entirely a matter for you. I don’t
=======================================================================
Once again for whatever reason you appear to be attempting to link me to bigoted and sectarian views which are a total anathema to me and I don’t care whether they are expressed by Rangers or Celtic supporters – they are equally as offensive no matter the source.
I suggest you go back and actually read what I stated and it is not what you appear to be implying. You say I have used a lot of words well if any are factually incorrect then it should be easy enough to point to where I have got things wrong and I am always open to genuine criticism.
In your earlier post it appeared you were stating that Mark Dingwall or members of Follow Follow had been banned from Ibrox but now I note you say selling of the fanzine was banned. I am unsure what control the Ibrox management have of the public approaches to the stadium but I must say I doubt if it would extend to banning or controlling any street sellers.
Many websites are littered with very offensive words and it isn’t confined to one site or side. I believe that keyboard warriors, of many varieties, aren’t actually of much importance in the real world as the internet is the only place they can flourish. In any case when looking at internet sites I tend to look beyond the drivel for the more positive signs that are actually there if you look with open eyes and more importantly an open mind.
Anybody else find it strange that sevco open their new “megastores” and fill them with last seasons merchandise and sponsors logo, then the next day announce their new kits will be unveiled the following day…..?????? Why not do both simultaneously. #somethingnotright
Echo, it was this statement I felt needed challenged;
So there are lots of things I totally disagree with Follow Follow on but I recognise when they have done the right thing and in particular when they took the BNP on over their anti-Black and anti-Jewish bile and made sure that they weren’t allowed a toehold at Ibrox.
——————————————————————–
To paint ff as some sort of bulwark against facsist elements within Ibrox is…….lets be positive,……generous to a fault! I would never suggest that you were in any way sympathetic to these morons, but I reiterate, the far right are currently (constantly) rebranding and reshaping their message, mr Dingwall is an activist on the far right, I would steer clear of giving him or his website/forum/fanzine any kudos for ‘doing the right thing’, in terms of his politics. Indeed his understanding of ‘politics’ probably makes him more dangerous than the faction who wanted to strengthen the relationship between the club and the BNP. Who I would argue have had a toehold at Ibrox for a long time, and who have been attempting to infiltrate football fans forums for some time, and not just the Govan team either.
Echobhoy, the only mention of “conditional” in respect of SFL membership is the following from the SFA Q&A that you posted a couple of days ago. “Now that the Scottish Football League have made a conditional acceptance of Rangers FC in Irn Bru Division Three we will now consider the club’s application for membership transfer this week.”
The SFL themselves simply record that the clubs voted to accept Sevco as associate members, in SFL3. Every new membership of the SFL is conditional in the sense that new members have 14 days to apply for full or associate membership of the SFA. I didn’t read any more than that into the word “conditional”. Which is a long way from the purported “conditional membership” of the SFA, which in my opinion was totally ultra vires. Compared to the SFA, the SFL come out of all this almost smelling of roses.
I don’t intend getting into a protracted discussion on this.
Follow Follow was banned from Ibrox because of the sectarian views it expressed. Mark Dingwall wan’t happy. He is a bigot.
His website Follow Follow is full of hatred and bile of a sectarian and racist nature. Whether other websites are littered with the same thing is whataboutery, nothing more. He could stop it by warning people, deleting their posts, or banning them. He doesn’t.
So he has a fanzine which is sectarian and a website which is sectarian and bigoted, he himself is sectarian and bigoted.
Praise them if you want, it really is up to you. However don’t expect other people to just sit back and ignore it.
Further uncertainty in the TRFC Boardroom ?
===================================
TRFC has now updated its website page for ‘Board of Directors’, with extract as follows;
– Craig Mather is listed as “Interim Chief Executive’.
Appointed 24/04/13, so 2 months later how is the CEO search going ?
– Sir Walter as NE Chairman.
[Despite him being ‘only’ NEC, does anyone know if he is seen around iBrox / Murray Park any more
frequently ?]
– Brian Stockbridge is the FD & Company Secretary.
If – as some suspect – Stockbridge is next to leave, that will just leave an interim CEO with ‘hands-on’
responsibilities. [ I suppose one of the other 3 NEDS could take an interim role if necessary ?]
Wasn’t Sir Walter elevated from NED to NEC to reassure the fans – and perhaps bring some stability to the club ? […and to sell some ST’s of course…]
I would have thought that securing the services of a permanent CEO would have been a top priority ?
This fellow Dingwall. Wasn’t he resident in NI for a time in the 80’s whilst some unsavoury far right organisations were trying to set up there and make alliances with the usual suspects?
StevieBC says:
June 26, 2013 at 5:08 pm
I would have thought that securing the services of a permanent CEO would have been a top priority ?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think money might be a bit tight right now, and CEO’s don’t come cheap.. They will just have to wait for their next saviour to turn up- if they can last that long.
RE Charlotte’s Tweets- Can any informed readers tell me why Mafia House and Rangers were taking photographs of HMRC officials? Why would they do this?
I’m baffled.
sportswear says:
June 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm
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Because they are scumbags who engage in all kinds of dirty tricks. Here’s Jack putting innocent lives and livings at risk for personal gain and the promotion of the evasion of justice through dubious, underhand methods.
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/4udf.jpg/][IMG]http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9463/4udf.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
sportswear says:
June 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm
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It’s to ensure there absolute safety.
Their images can be passed onto fans groups etc stating that if these men are seen it’s every Rangers* fan’s duty to ensure that they come to no harm. This encourages Rangers* fans to perhaps follow them around to ensure their safe conduct wherever they go, perhaps even going as far as carrying heavy shopping, and helping them across busy junctions. It’s called dignity.
Private investigators and journalists can also be notified to ensure that if they here of anyone in their profession going around trying to dig up any dirt on them, the duty bound Rangers* fan would of course be morally obliged to report or prevent such scurrilous activity.
I for one am glad that a Scottish institution such as Rangers* takes it’s responsibilty to the state to such an extreme.
*Sevco
Bawsman 1.30
Looks like Phil who has seen CF stuff on the UEFA licence 2011 and knows summat
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/a-legacy-issue-that-must-be-finally-dealt-with/#more-3756
Phil’s latest
” I know that Celtic are aware of the situation apropos the possibility that Rangers perhaps should not have had a licence from UEFA that season.”
An interesting angle he is taking to get at the truth mind you but if SFA are on solid ground it is an offer they cannot refuse..
sportswear says:
June 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm
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RE Charlotte’s Tweets- Can any informed readers tell me why Mafia House and Rangers were taking photographs of HMRC officials? Why would they do this?
I’m baffled.
*********************
We have probably all came across crackpot business theories which equate business to ‘war’, or other equally nonsensical and baffling strategies. 2 crackers I have come across are ‘Sun Tzsu for Sales’ and ‘Von Klausewitz Applied to Business’.
The Media House boys are probably looking at some form of ‘teneo vestri hostilis’. (Pig Latin for know thy enemy) but may be better applying the Greek ‘gnothe seauton’ (Know thyself).
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/top-italian-football-clubs-raided-by-finance-police-investigating-taxdodging-and-money-laundering-8672744.html
I have to say I have been shocked at the way my words have been interpreted and portrayed so I will appeal to those, with an open mind, to read what I actually said and determine if the meaning that is being ascribed to those words is, in fact, accurate.
It started with me at: ecobhoy says: June 26, 2013 at 10:44 am stating:
‘It was interesting to see Mark Dingwall’s quote in the DR saying the SFA were given the identity of the beneficial shareholders. I’m not sure that is the case and I tried to find out a year ago what they were told. I was convinced all they got was the lawyers or administrators of the various overseas trusts and investment vehicles.’
This was answered by Tommy says: June 26, 2013 at 12:41 pm which stated:
‘Perhaps Dingwall is being clever here. Instead of stating his confidence in the SFA is he making a veiled threat against Regan & Co? If the SFA merely have the particulars of the trusts and investment companies and have done nothing to demand the details of the actual shareholders themselves, then The Rangers fans will hold it responsible should there be impending skulduggery over the shares. Similarly, if the SFA know the identities of the beneficial persons behind these trusts, and any of them are deemed to be undesirable, then all hell will break loose with the Follow Follow faction should they be exposed.’
I answered that by stating: ‘Dingwall comes in for heavy stick from the Rangers Media site most of the time but IMO he is one of the few prominent supporters/bloggers that seems to have a grasp of ‘politics’ and I don’t mean of the party political variety although he has that as well and not to my taste I would add.’
So I happily put my hands up and admit I was providing support for the supposition advanced by Tommy that Dingwall could be ‘clever’. I do not equate being ‘clever’ or a good political ‘operator’ as any indication of whether someone is sectarian or a bigot btw.
Basically I was saying that I recognised Dingwall was an operator and I do believe he is way out in front of most other Rangers activists in that department. I made no comment about his views or website as I thought that was unnecessary. I defined that I meant ‘politics’ with a small ‘p’ but went on to add that as far as his personal party politics were concerned I did not agree. Perhaps I should have used the excessive and wild language but that’s not really my style and all I said was Dingwall’s politics weren’t ‘to my taste’. I learnt decades ago that often more could be achieved through moderation and that very forceful action should be saved for those few occasions where it might achieve a lasting solution.
I also made two points about unnamed members of Follow Follow publicly questioning Murray over his disastrous financial regime and also the work done by Follow Follow members in thwarting a formal alliance with the BNP. That has attracted quite a few off the wall responses which display to me that the those posting no nothing about the actual facts of these specific instances which I have no problem in saying were positive initiatives IMO. I am also well aware of the dark unacceptable side to FF but as I said earlier that if there is a glimmer of hope then it should be encouraged.
so we have Gaz says: June 26, 2013 at 1:46 pm:
The implied thrust of this is that I am ‘portraying him (Dingwall) as some fighter for decency’. There was nothing implied or stated in my post which could be portrayed as such.
Then at Gaz says: June 26, 2013 at 1:48 pm – 2 minutes later we have:
‘I really had to laugh at this bit from you . . . Read his website about the tarrier, pape, rattlers etc. is that OK in your book.’
I actually find it insulting that anyone could possibly imagine I would find bigotry and sectarianism acceptable on any site including FF.’
I gave a full response at ecobhoy says: June 26, 2013 at 2:29 pm.
Then Gaz says: June 26, 2013 at 3:01 pm:
‘As I said before, if you think constant use of the words I mentioned earlier is OK and for Mr Dingwall to allow it is acceptable that is entirely a matter for you. I don’t.’
It was obvious by this stage the strategy that was being implemented to tie me into apparently supporting the FF website when I have stated no such thing and for as long as I have posted here and elsewhere have made it clear that I find bigotry and sectarianism on any site unacceptable.
At ecobhoy says: June 26, 2013 at 3:23 pm
I protested the obvious link that was being made between myself and implied support of sectarian websites.
At Gaz says: June 26, 2013 at 4:35 pm
‘Praise them if you want, it really is up to you. However don’t expect other people to just sit back and ignore it’.
The calculated repetitive use of the unfounded declaration that I support something which I have stated is an anathema to me is actually quite sad. At no point in this exchange have I praised Mark Dingwall – I did state that on the two specific cases concerning finances and the BNP that I believed the un-named members of FF involved had done the right thing. I still think so and won’t alter my view on that.
I will point out that I haven’t given posts in full but concentrated on the aspects which imply my support for sectarian and bigoted views advanced in a contrived posts in a crude and unsubtle way. I have identified the posts so they can be read if anyone wants to fully understand the exchanges .
Nas Na Ri Bhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm
1 0 Rate This
Anybody else find it strange that sevco open their new “megastores” and fill them with last seasons merchandise and sponsors logo, then the next day announce their new kits will be unveiled the following day…..?????? Why not do both simultaneously. #somethingnotright.
…………………….
Sports store at Thurrock Lakeside in Essex has SEVCO tops on sale for 2 quid…if anyone is interested 🙂
Ecobhoy,
Sometimes you just have to realise that you might have made a point in a post that some don’t agree with, it doesn’t mean that you have to argue every point in detail. It does sometimes feels like you post stuff just to cause a reaction.
This isn’t an insult or bait for more posts, just a gut feeling!
sportswear says:
June 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm
For the same reason Ally McCoist and Rangers stage managed the “name names” campaign on Rangers TV.
Intimidation, threats and bullying. Attempting to get other people to be willing to do their own job properly for fear of the consequences. A rabid mob may be set after them.
This was taken seriously enough by the Police to send patrols, every half hours or less, past someone’s home.
McCoist and Rangers were never effectively taken to task over it by the Scottish footballing authorities. It is actually one of the more horrendous episodes of the whole situation, and it was the cheeky chappie who did it.
paulmac2 says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:24 pm
3 0 Rate This
twa poond ..thats cheaper than andrex…
arabest1 says:
June 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Echo, it was this statement I felt needed challenged;
So there are lots of things I totally disagree with Follow Follow on but I recognise when they have done the right thing and in particular when they took the BNP on over their anti-Black and anti-Jewish bile and made sure that they weren’t allowed a toehold at Ibrox.
——————————————————————–
To paint ff as some sort of bulwark against facsist elements within Ibrox is…….lets be positive,……generous to a fault! I would never suggest that you were in any way sympathetic to these morons, but I reiterate, the far right are currently (constantly) rebranding and reshaping their message, mr Dingwall is an activist on the far right, I would steer clear of giving him or his website/forum/fanzine any kudos for ‘doing the right thing’, in terms of his politics. Indeed his understanding of ‘politics’ probably makes him more dangerous than the faction who wanted to strengthen the relationship between the club and the BNP. Who I would argue have had a toehold at Ibrox for a long time, and who have been attempting to infiltrate football fans forums for some time, and not just the Govan team either.
=================================================================
Thank you for accepting that I have no sympathy for sectarian or bigoted views. I also don’t think I have painted FF as a ‘bulward’ against fascism at Ibrox. What I was talking about was a serious attempt to set up formal links between the BNP and elements of the Rangers support.
They were a minority but a meeting was orgarnised in a Glasgow pub for the BNP national leader to address Bears as part of a recruiting drive after the way had been prepared by a young, intelligent, degree-educated Bear who had been doing the preparatory work.
It was to be a showpiece event and FF not only disrupted in but killed that particular initiative stone dead. I accept that the far-right is very good a rebranding and shape-shifting to infiltrate various organisations and football support can be a fertile area for them.
Those who attack Dingwall from within the Rangers support often I believe underestimate his ‘political’ ability as can be seen by the length of time he has survived as a fan ‘opinion former’ at Ibrox which in view of the very fragmented and bitter nature of much of the support is no mean feat IMO.
Those who attack from without tend to do so on a sectarian and bigotry level without recognising or understanding his power base – I don’t fully understand it as it appears to be very hierarchical and I would assume that the knowledge and tactics are determined by a closed group.
Again when I look at the inability of Bears to find common purpose it may well be that a hierarchical structure makes sense in the circumstances. But I accept I am only speculating. Normally I wouldn’t feel the need to add the caveat that nothing I have said in this post should be taken as meaning I support bigotry and sectarianism. However in the light of earlier posts I will make that clear.
I genuinely believe that Green has put back the slow advances that have been made in Scotland in recent decades towards a more tolerant society. But I refuse to go back into the laager that saw me discriminated against jobwise because of my perceived religion and I was also placed on the Economic League blacklist for my political and trade union activism.
Because I have suffered from direct discrimination I detest it, in all its forms, but I firmly believe that when all avenues of communication are closed then it is easier for minds to be totally poisoned and for hatred to grow and intensify. I do what I can to try and break down the barricades and I might never achieve anything but I know that the right thing is to try.
The alternative Scotland that would be left is just to grim to accept or even contemplate.
paulmac2 says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Nas Na Ri Bhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm
1 0 Rate This
Anybody else find it strange that sevco open their new “megastores” and fill them with last seasons merchandise and sponsors logo, then the next day announce their new kits will be unveiled the following day…..?????? Why not do both simultaneously. #somethingnotright.
…………………….
Sports store at Thurrock Lakeside in Essex has SEVCO tops on sale for 2 quid…if anyone is interested 🙂
==================================================
2 quid!
Is that not what Charlie said he paid Craigy for the whole works?.
As an occasional lurker and even more occasional poster there’s something I’ve been meaning to ask.
It may have already been discussed or I may be wrong but here goes.
I’m sure that when reading about the Richard Britain situation (signed a pre-contract with St Johnstone then changed his mind) I seen something along the lines of a player must be registered within 14 days of signing a contract.
As I said I may have got it wrong, BUT, if this is the case where does it leave Rangers, assuming that their recent load of signings have put pen to paper pending registration on 1st Sep?
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:00 pm
Have you seen the new store, it’s quality.
It’s about 2 feet deep. It’s actually more like a market stall.
paulmac2 says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:24 pm
4 1 Rate This
Nas Na Ri Bhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 3:40 pm
1 0 Rate This
Anybody else find it strange that sevco open their new “megastores” and fill them with last seasons merchandise and sponsors logo, then the next day announce their new kits will be unveiled the following day…..?????? Why not do both simultaneously. #somethingnotright.
…………………….
Sports store at Thurrock Lakeside in Essex has SEVCO tops on sale for 2 quid…if anyone is interested
=======
I think you’ll find that is Rangers tops, the first ever sevco tops are due out tomorrow and the fans are praying they are not the iron on generics that are expected from a technical partnership
Still it all goes to Mike Ashley anyway
Anyone know the likely rent of a unit at the airport?
Scores on the doors
EGM still open – not withdrawn – could be activated at a moments notice
CO Criminal Investigation into the Takeover now passed its first anniversary #comfypensions
Kieran Prior looking under the bonnets? [DR Story 😉 ]
Letter before action stuff gone v quiet
Liberty liquidation in BVI not followed up
SFA in their counting house – outsourcing `inquiries` – with no gumption for proactive prevention
Duffers `no comment` on `no comment`
Are BBC still barred?
MSM – what can one say…………………..unimaginable sources for selling copy – wasted
Media big hoose on HMRC pics will not be forgotten! – top 1 ranking reprehensible aspect
`independent` investigation discredited – no demonstrable purposeful function other than `nothings`
IPA `Investigation` coming under pressure #charlottegoforitgal
BDO reluctant to report publically on `sensitive` issues – but share with `the committee` #secureweb
IPO circa 22m cash reported Dec 2012 – June 2013?
Rangers supporters seem to be waking up – but not fast enough
All supporters been ripped off and lied to in stage managed nonsense to flog stuff
Comeback goosey!
ForresDee says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:38 pm
Ecobhoy,
Sometimes you just have to realise that you might have made a point in a post that some don’t agree with, it doesn’t mean that you have to argue every point in detail. It does sometimes feels like you post stuff just to cause a reaction. This isn’t an insult or bait for more posts, just a gut feeling!
========================================================================
I have no problem in anyone disagreeing with any point I make and I will ignore or reply dependent on whether I think it productive to engage or not. However, If someone addresses a comment directly to me then I try and answer them and I may add further material to either better explain my position or comment or indeed to question their point of view.
I try to base my opinions and interpretations on fact where possible but being human I sometimes allow heart to overcome head. But I do like to have my position challenged and that often helps me to see the other person’s point of view and can lead to me modifying my position or thinking.
Indeed in the exchange I have posted above I haven’t argued anything in detail but just tried to show a mechanism which creates a very unfair representation of my position. Surely I have a right to be able to do so? I would never deny anyone else that right.
If I’m posting stuff to get a reaction I most certainly have achieved that no problem at all. Personally I am trying to do more than that but time will tell whether I have any success in that.
I note that the BBC’s page on the Third Division is jam-packed with stories about Rangers – more so than their Second Division page. How strange.
Also, Cowdenbeath’s BBC page seems to be headed by a large picture of the Third Division winners with news of opening day fixtures..
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:47 pm
————————————
My observations, what what they are worth.
You pay too much attention to “thums down”, stop looking at them, they do not and will not add to your enjoyment of the blog and if they help form your opinion then that opinion is worthless.
You take feedback too personal, it’s not about you.
Your attention to detail is a facination not shared by most others so you might want to agree to disagree sometimes.
Pick your battles carefully, it is a brave man that tells people we should give Hitler some credit for the infrastructure he left Germany post war.
the taxman cometh says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:15 pm
Anyone know the likely rent of a unit at the airport?
===================================================
Don’t know the rent/rates but I am convinced that the airport shop and Belfast city centre one – promised by Green – had probably gone too far to be cancelled after Green left and the signing date for the leases would be interesting to know.
One thing that will cost at the airport will be wages with them open from 4.00am to late – I can’t remember the closing time but you’re talking about a double shift being required at a minimum and over 7 days. I think it’s a vanity project to gain ‘visibility’ but I doubt if it will make money.
Belfast I don’t know enough about to make any judgement on viability. Does anyone know why the previous shop closed there?
Not sure about the SportsDirect position re the shops and merchandise because they are Rangers shops as opposed to SportsDirect operations as far as I know.
I think we are in the long grass now and there are a few players hoping to keep the game in there,a game of subterfuge,there is nowhere left to go and clutching at straws is too weak a phrase to use, imagine a Celtic type huddle between Jack Sprat and the muppets ,if they could only see that they where all holding knives behind each others backs ,but even if they wanted they coud not ,you dont have to be physicaly blind to be blind ,no, Keith Jackson [head muppet] has been put forward, well he is journo of the year, Keith will be allowed to cherry pick the CF tapes that are the allowance of Journo of the year and so on down the pecking order until we reach the sacrificial apprentices ,whatch yourself boys , carreer is mapped out ,and has been discussed ,such is the world that you choose to live in ,if I worked in the SMMS ,I would be afraid ,very afraid, eh Jack,the lambing season is in ,who are the new sacrifiacials ,we need to know ,we are entitled to know ,just ask Ally .
Madbhoy24941 says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:20 pm
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 8:47 pm
————————————
I don’t really care about TUs and TDs because, and I don’t just mean on my posts, they seldom reflect IMO the ‘value’ of the many well-researched and informed posts that appear on the site.
I do agree to disagree on occasion and have recently done so with neepheid on the club ‘issue’ because I believe we got to a point after looking at the rule books where he has one interpretation and I have the opposite. Neither of us will change our mind as as it is a difference of interpretation rather than fact so there is no problem in agreeing to disagree.
As to the pre-war public works programmes notably carried out in Germany and Italy, which were not dissimilar to the New Deal – these weren’t principally to improve infrastucture but to provide employment and to sell ideologies at a time when vast swathes of the world’s population was in desperate straits.
Obviously it could be argued that there was a benefit to parts of post war Europe in the structures that survived however it doesn’t take a cost/benefit analysis to work out that the cost in human terms far outweighs IMO that ‘advantage’.
And the corollary of course is that Britain’s industry and transport was absolutely worn-out and there was no Marshall Plan for us. It’s a funny old world at times.
I actually don’t pick ‘battles’ but have no problem in making statements which I believe in and let the cards fall where they may. It would be a very boring site if all we got were TDs and agreed with each other most of the time especially just on emotional statements without any awkward facts being allowed to rear their head.
But your comments I have noted and my thanks for taking the time to post them as I know they are well-intentioned.
Typo in 2nd last par where TD should be TU 🙂
twopanda says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:15 pm
=====================
Loads of stuff to think about but it seems the SFA and the MSM are going to ride out the storm no matter what. I am now at the stage where I believe anything, anything at all, could be uncovered and still the SFA would sit in silence and the MSM would persist with their favoured 3 wise monkeys impression.
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:49 pm
I don’t really care about TUs and TDs because, and I don’t just mean on my posts, they seldom reflect IMO the ‘value’ of the many well-researched and informed posts that appear on the site.
==========================================================
I have to agree with you fully. The TU’s and TD’s are a very non transparent way of gauging the quality of individual posts. Most of them may come from lurkers who contribute little or nothing to the debates – who knows. All I know is I value this site compared to what I’ve experienced elsewhere. If TD’s are as bad as it gets then we have little to worry about.
sportswear says:
June 26, 2013 at 6:32 pm
RE Charlotte’s Tweets- Can any informed readers tell me why Mafia House and Rangers were taking photographs of HMRC officials? Why would they do this? I’m baffled.
==================================================================
I think a photographer’s name was mentioned in the email that CF included with the pics but I don’t know who he worked for or whether he was freelance,
The email clearly indicated the pics could be passed to a friendly editor presumably for publication. In view of other references claiming that the inspectors were Celtic supporters it is all quite a sinister development if true.
upthehoops says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:51 pm
yep
That is their feeble strategy. But being feeble strategists they don`t consider historical retrospective
History will not be kind
[impolite version – laughing stock for generations]
upthehoops says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:51 pm
==========================
Agreed.
I think they are so far gone that is their only option.
Bottom line their position is probably, they are football fans and not that bright. Once the football starts again they will concentrate on that. They don’t have that long an attention span. The odd squirrel thrown in will distract them enough. Sit it out and we will be fine
Remember, squirrels come in many shapes and sizes. They can be distraction, obfuscation, the poisson rouge. Anything which causes you too think about something else, or to get involved in an argument which uses up your energy and attention.
Semper Vigilo and so forth.
upthehoops says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:51 pm
twopanda says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:15 pm
=====================
Loads of stuff to think about but it seems the SFA and the MSM are going to ride out the storm no matter what …
===========================
Perhaps the ‘behind the scenes’ story about the SFA’s performance over the last couple of years will only be told via a book ?
There must be at least one brass-necked Scottish ‘journo’ planning to release a ‘tell-all’ book in the future – which might include details that they have sat on / refused to report in their newspaper ?
And did Green not make a comment he was planning to write a book ? [I know, fiction only].
IMO, there would undoubtedly be demand for a comprehensive book about all the nonsense around the SFA, TRFC, 5WA, licensing etc… to tie up all the loose ends for all the obsessives out there… 🙄
I just hope an Internet Bampot gets to publish first.
Gaz says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:07 pm
‘…the poisson rouge..’
—Aw, hey, Gaz, you’re in danger of triggering off a’ the fish jokes we had on RTC!
StevieBC says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:12 pm
—-
‘Perhaps the ‘behind the scenes’ story about the SFA’s performance over the last couple of years will only be told via a book ?.’
——-
I suspect that lots of stuff was never officially minuted, and the culture of ‘omerta’ ( and may James Gandolfini (‘tony soprano) rest in peace!) will make people who might know bits and pieces keep schtum.
Mind you, if Regan does not get the job as CEO of the SPFL, he might be piqued enough to begin to tell tales, in which, of course, his hands would be spotlessly clean ( the ” ich folgte Ordnungen” (or Nuremberg ) defence!
Apologies if off subject somewhat, just received a confirmation letter from those nice chap(s) that handle appeals to the ASAs decisions.
They have received mine and will study all the points made and come to a decision whether to proceed with the appeal.
Palacio67 says:
June 27, 2013 at 12:31 am
‘…. just received a confirmation letter from those nice chap(s) that handle appeals to the ASAs decisions…’
—–
Looks like it’s only thee and me that are on tonight, Palacio67.
Well done in lodging the appeal.
At the very least, it means that someone will have to go to the bother of trying to justify why the appeal cannot be allowed ( if that is the decision).
They cannot simply say ‘no’, and parrot the original decision..
I like the term Mafia house
It fits
It fits jack and his shady dealings
And if I was one of our administrators trying to protect some of the stuff they wouldn’t want to see published I’d be worried
And I include our politicians in that
Whistle blowers or savvy politicos wanted
Hello
I’m here! but only reading through what has been the subject of discussion. Without me going through things what has been the big revelation today. Diificult reading back on my BB mobile BTW as I lie in bed.
Finloch, I agree Mafia House is a good name. The dirt dishers.
Should have said Dirt dishers and shit stirrers. I think guys like Jack Irvine would crucify you if it made a story and suited a purpose.
Finloch says:
June 27, 2013 at 12:49 am
‘..I like the term Mafia house
It fits….’
——-
I often wonder whether the sleaze-balls that infest our public and civic life have sons and daughters who are as disgusted with the’ work’ their fathers do as many of us are?
Who would want to claim the Jacks and the Craigs and the Jims and the Charles’ and the David’s of this world as their dads?
Or is it in the genes?
Conman, spiv, fraudster, liar, necessarily produce offspring with the same stunted growth in terms of moral conscience? What daddy is,is what one becomes?
Or do the sons and daughters of baddies blush for the shameful deeds of their fathers?
Or , being the sons and daughters of such fathers, are they themselves lacking moral compass?
Nothing in their heads except ‘winning’ by hook or crook and by lying, cheating, stealing because that’s what their dad taught them?
I ponder, and drain my thimble of the water of life, as I say, in the words of the late Alan Keith, a very good night to you all!.
ecobhoy says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:04 pm
—————————————————————————————————————————–
ecobhoy. Reflecting on a post that I have now seen vanish – one can only assume I have fallen foul of the website post-reaper – but it was maybe overly rude and apologies if I caused offence. I just get the feeling you argue the case for certain matters a tad too…well…a tad too good:)
Although personaly I don’t, and never will, buy any argument that attempts to portray TRFC as RFC because legal arguments can wrong a right and mathematics can circle a square after all. I simply just don’t give two hoots for legal obsufication and prefer plain logic, as opposed to skewing logic in order to match the number…if you get the drift…but i digress, the point is that I am a wee bit perturbed by you’re celtic themed moniker when you spend a lot of you’re time arguing their case…but perhaps i’m just too paranoid…and I probably am too:) So please accept my apologies and take no notice of the comments, whatever they said, they were never intended as malice or snideness.
Anyways – moving on and onto the business of Charlotte. Now, I seen those HMRC guys pictures included in the MH/JI correspondence a couple of weeks back on twitter and my eyes almost fell out of my head. I actually thought it has to be some sort of hoax at first but it’s very apparently genuine.
This is very, very sinister indeed. It maybe not quite be in the realms of criminality but that depends on the context and in this case – and with the nature of intended use – could see a certain individual in one helluva load of bother and I would be extremely surprised if HMRC, including the individuals pictured, have not already been in contact with the police and other agencies regarding this development.
The Scottish MsM won’t touch Charlotte with a barge pole – The Daily Record are simply working to their pre-engineered agenda, there are far worse outings from Charlotte, why pick that particular – and pretty twee on the grand scale of avaiable CF material – matter to report?? No chance am I buying that and neither should anyone else – if the Daily Record really want to sensationalise and actually report, then i’d suggest looking into the deal with HMRC officials pictured been banded about with the intention of malice.
But I would really like to know if the police are investigating this particular matter – perhaps they need to be pointed (shoved more like..) in the right direction..
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 3h
Here’s the SPL version of Jelavic contract, as sent to West Ham on 24/01/2012. Definitions seem quite clear.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/150253656/Jelavic-Contract …
I sense it may get interesting……………..
Alison Robbie @AlisonRobbie 18h
Busy day in sport – hear from Neil Lennon, Ricky Burns & Allan Johnston later on @RadioClydeNews & sport. Also, Andy Murray back in action.
soul_bhoy soul_bhoy @strainey71 18h
@AlisonRobbie @RadioClydeNews have sevco gave permission for u to interview neil lennon ?
Alison Robbie Alison Robbie @AlisonRobbie 18h
@strainey71 This is all very boring. PR man asks journo to do club a favour – happens every day. Nothing in that email proves he did it.
Charlotte Fakeovers@CharlotteFakes @AlisonRobbie @strainey71 Boring eh. How about I spice it up later by including emails featuring @LorrainHerbison and Craig #SnydeClyde
Tom English nails it in today’s Scotsman re-the Rangers & Hearts insolvency events.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom-english-hearts-and-rangers-are-no-comparison-1-2978984
SINCE Hearts went into administration there has been an uprising in parts of the country where Rangers fans sit with long memories of their own horrors from last summer.
In the eyes of some of these Bears, the narrative is strangely different this time around. Barely a day goes by without some – or many – getting in touch via social networking to accuse the media and the SFA of double standards in the twin administrations. The bludgeon for Rangers a year ago but sympathy for Hearts now. What is the difference, they ask. Why hammer Rangers and then go easy on their counterparts in Edinburgh when they both fell foul of the same thing?
The aggrieved Rangers fans remember the findings of the SFA’s judicial panel. The headlines were a whopping fine of £160,000 for the club plus a 12-month transfer embargo (later over-ruled by Lord Glennie, but still in force now on account of the agreement that saw Rangers’ entry into the Third Division). There is lingering resentment over all of that among Rangers folk plus a feeling that the treatment doled out to them last year should be repeated now that Hearts are in administration, too. Time and again Rangers people ask: “What is the difference between us then and Hearts now?” Truth be told, the difference, as it stands, is stark.
Some remember the judicial panel’s bottom line in 2012 but forget the many steps the panel took to get there. It is surprising the number of Rangers fans who have it in their heads that their club was fined £160,000 and banned from signing players for a year simply because they were in administration. That is not the case. Far from it. The overall fine constituted a number of different fines for different offences that Hearts have not been charged with. Maybe the landscape will change a little once the SFA pull up the bonnet and have a look at what was gone in recent times at Tynecastle, but it is an almighty stretch to demand the same punishment for Hearts now as was handed down to Rangers then. That is what some Rangers people want. They claim that there is one rule for their put-upon club and another for Hearts. Yes, there is. Because their stories are different.
Consider what Rangers were found guilty of by the judicial panel. Apart from being guilty of an insolvency event, they were found guilty of not disclosing the fact that Craig Whyte had been disqualified from being a company director. They were found guilty of failing to comply with the rules of the PLUS Stock Exchange by not disclosing Whyte’s disqualification. They were found guilty of failing to lodge annual accounts by 31 December, 2001 as required by the Companies Act 2006. They were found guilty of failing to hold an annual general meeting by 1 January, 2012 as required by the Companies Act 2012. They were found guilty of non-payment of PAYE, VAT and National Insurance contributions in excess of £13 million. They were found guilty of failing to pay money due to Dunfermline as per the rules of the Scottish Premier League. They were found guilty of non-payment of money due to Dundee United for a Scottish Cup tie as per the rules of the SFA. They were guilty of non-payment of money to the SFA in relation to the rules of competition in the Scottish Cup.
When you bracket all of these breaches together you get to £160,000. Of that number, only £50,000 relates to the insolvency act. Most of the rest of it comes under the banner of bringing the game into disrepute. How many of these offences are Hearts guilty of and what is their rightful punishment? That’s what must be mulled over in the coming weeks.
Did they have a director who failed to declare that he’d been struck off? No. Did they publish their accounts? Yes. Did they have an annual general meeting? Yes. Did they – or do they – owe monies to other clubs? As far as we are aware, no. For sure, they need to be punished for the things they are guilty of, but you’re not comparing apples with apples when you lump Hearts’ offences in with the myriad breaches perpetrated by Whyte’s Rangers. And let’s not fall for the easy cop-out that Whyte was the only one to blame for the fall of Rangers. The jJudicial panel report collared many of the directors at Ibrox and held them accountable in varying degrees for not doing enough – or anything at all – to raise the alarm with the authorities, despite being suspicious of what Whyte was up to.
Importantly, the judicial panel’s findings were endorsed by Lord Carloway and Lord Glennie. Glennie had a major problem with the legality of the transfer embargo imposed on Rangers, which he ditched, but in no sense did he disagree with the rest of the report, nor the grave tone of it. Remember, the panel found that only match-fixing could constitute a more serious offence than the collective violations of the Whyte era.
Hearts failed to comply with HMRC and that is to their shame. But the contravention is of a different order to the brazen defiance displayed by Whyte, is it not? Hearts had come to an arrangement to pay up previous arrears with the taxman – a state of affairs that HMRC appeared to be content with. They had fallen foul again lately with a bill of about £100,000 dropping on the doorstep at Tynecastle. Around half of that has already been paid, with huge credit due to the supporters (and credit also to the Rangers fans who worked tirelessly to try to pay off the entire football debt of their club). We’ll have to wait for BDO to crunch the numbers to find out precisely how much Hearts will end up shafting HMRC for but it’s not going to be in the same ball-park – or the same country – as the £13m-plus that Whyte’s regime at Rangers stiffed them for.
All of this has to be factored into the reckoning. And it is the reason why Hearts’ administration is being reported differently. It’s not so much sympathy as an understanding of two distinct and sad stories.
Odd that Tom English forgot to mention Hearts season ticket drive and list the prices. Tut tut. What’s sports jounalism coming to? He missed a trick there, unlike Michael Grant in the Herald (last paragraph) 🙂
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/with-crowd-in-the-equation-rangers-return-all-adds-up.21448352
Exiled Celt says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:34 am
4 0 Rate This
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 3h
Here’s the SPL version of Jelavic contract, as sent to West Ham on 24/01/2012. Definitions seem quite clear.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/150253656/Jelavic-Contract …
————-
“Here’s the SPL version of Jelavic contract”. I couldn’t quite see the significance of that tweet, unless, of course, there is another version of the contract. What am I missing?
Exiled Celt says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:34 am
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 3h
Here’s the SPL version of Jelavic contract, as sent to West Ham on 24/01/2012. Definitions seem quite clear.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/150253656/Jelavic-Contract …
————-
Danish Pastry says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:42 am
“Here’s the SPL version of Jelavic contract”. I couldn’t quite see the significance of that tweet, unless, of course, there is another version of the contract. What am I missing?
———————————————————————-
I would guess it’s the first section which states that the Club is is/was RFC PLC……so the SPL should be stating that the club in question is no more
Danish Pastry says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:42 am
“definitions seem quite clear”
——————————————————————————–
Section A: Club Details [“the Club”] – The Rangers Football Club P.L.C.
Section 2: “continuous employment with the “Club”
Club = Company
“SPL Version” – Side letter?………………………
Did Hearts ever get paid the transfer fees for Wallace and Templeton?
What will Ally do with all those new signings if it does not go ahead and “Rangers as a new club!!”
The Telegraph
http://tinyurl.com/ocmz2x2
By Ewing Grahame6:30AM BST 27 Jun 2013Comment
Just over a fortnight ago SFL members voted by 23-6 in favour of mutating into the new Scottish Professional Football League alongside the top 12 clubs.
However, that acceptance was conditional on the nine-strong SFL board being given comfort that due diligence has been carried out and that is now very much in doubt.
Consequently, it is possible that the SFL board may now choose not to accept culpability by endorsing the motion and, instead, ask the 29 members – Rangers, as a new club, are only associate members and therefore not allowed to vote – to decide on the matter.
It remains uncertain whether or not such a vote – if taken – would be constitutionally competent but, if and when it takes place, only eight dissenters would be required to see the amalgamation abandoned.
Wylie and Bisset, the SFL’s accountants, claim they have been unable to fulfil the scope of due diligence as a result of the lack of detail provided by the SPL.
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There are major fears concerning the financial liabilities the SFL clubs may be exposing themselves to should the merger proceed and it is understood that, for example, the £1.7 million lawsuit launched by former Celtic player Harry Hood’s Lisini Pub Management Group did not rate a mention by the SPL in the documentation sent to Wylie and Bisset.
Hood’s court case arose when the SPL banned him from utilising a Polish decoder to show Scottish games in his four pubs.
A judge has already ruled in a publican’s favour in a similar battle in England and the fear is that a similar success for Hood could lead to a series of similar, more expensive claims from bigger chains and that SFL clubs would be liable for a share of the bill.
However, that is only one of the risks that Wylie and Bisset have been unable to put a price on due to the lack of detailed information made available to them.
The SFL board members have been emphatically encouraged to seek their own legal advice before they approve the motion to dissolve the 123-year-old league.
Failure to have the new structure endorsed would be another major embarrassment for SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan, the chief executive of the Scottish Football Association, who have driven this particular reform.
Exiled Celt says:
June 27, 2013 at 4:36 am
9 0 Rate This
I sense it may get interesting……………..
…
Alison Robbie Alison Robbie @AlisonRobbie 18h
@strainey71 This is all very boring. PR man asks journo to do club a favour – happens every day. Nothing in that email proves he did it.
…
—————————————————-
Let’s break that down.
This is all very boring. = Can we stop talking about this, your getting uncomfortably close to discovering something. Oh Look a Squirrel.
PR man asks journo to do club a favour – happens every day. = Very cosy relationships.
Nothing in that email proves he did it. = Bart Simpson defence.
So what happens if we can prove that media outlets are simply deniable extensions of Media House/RFC?
I think I know the answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTbgsoHDc24
nothing in that email proves that he did it.
years of output however………………..
paulmac2 says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:05 am
1 0 i
Rate This
Did Hearts ever get paid the transfer fees for Wallace and Templeton?
——————————–
Pretty sure a deal was done and moneys paid. Part of the scam to get the new club shoe horned into League 3 was that Green had to honour the dead clubs ‘football debts’
Must be very galling for the shafted creditors, not to mention the debenture holders to witness that.
Alison Robbie @AlisonRobbie 2h
So some like to tweet me instead of sleep! Gym time then heading to Fir Park. I’m sure someone will say this means I have some agenda…
==================
Shakespears Hamlet, Act III, scene II,
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
Somehow springs to mind!
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 25 Jun
How to unsettle a player and then claim he wanted away. Undercover agents for the club and big rewards #BlameJelavic
——————————————————————————————————————
REPRESENTATION CONTRACT between AGENT and CLUB
THIS REPRESENTATION CONTRACT is made the 20 day of October 2011
BETWEEN KENNY MOYES SFA LICENSED AGENT (the ‘Authorised Agent’) LICENCE NUMBER 129
And
The GLASGOW RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB PLC
IBROX STADIUM
150 EDMISTON DRIVE
GLASGOW
G51 2XD
(the ‘Club’)
———————————————————————————————————
Daily Record
30 Jan 2012 07:26
Rangers striker Nikica Jelavic demands to quit Ibrox and seal dream move to Everton
By Keith Jackson
EXCLUSIVE: Nikica Jelavic will today demand to be allowed to move to Everton after the Premiership outfit launched a late bid to sign him before the transfer market shuts tomorrow.
NIKICA JELAVIC will today demand to be allowed to move to Everton after the Premiership outfit launched a late bid to sign him before the transfer market shuts tomorrow.
Record Sport can reveal Goodison boss David Moyes made his move yesterday when an official bid was tabled with Rangers for their top-scoring Croat.
It’s understood the opening offer fell as much as £3million short of the Ibrox club’s £8m valuation of the 27-year-old.
But Jelavic is determined to push a deal through and has told his advisers he will not take no for an answer.
The 27-year-old may even demand showdown talks with the club’s owner Craig Whyte today in an attempt to force the issue and open the door to a deadline-day move to Merseyside.
Moyes is a long-standing admirer of the man who moved to Rangers from Rapid Vienna for £4m in the summer of 2010. In fact, the Everton boss attempted to hijack that deal at the 11th hour but left it too late and lost his man to the SPL champs.
Now Moyes has money to spend again after selling Russia midfielder Diniyar Bilyaletdinov to Spartak Moscow for £5m.
Whyte, though, wants top dollar for his most valuable asset and last week turned down a bid from West Ham which could, over time, have been worth as much as £7m after add-ons.
Jelavic did not rock the boat over the collapse of his proposed move to the second tier of English football but sources close to the player were adamant he will not accept being priced out of a ticket to the Premiership so readily.
The insider said: “Nikica is very close to his agent and he has made it clear to him that Everton is the move he wants.
“Rangers could be left with a very unhappy player on their hands unless Craig Whyte is prepared to do a deal.”
As well as Jelavic, Juan Ortiz is also heading for the Ibrox exit. The Spanish flop could make a quick-fire return to the club from which Rangers signed him – Almeria.
Meanwhile, furious Honduran club Motagua have branded Rangers’ transfer dealings ABSURD – as Chinese outfit Changchun Yatai last night attempted to hijack Ally McCoist’s chances of landing Hamdi Salihi.
The cash-strapped Ibrox outfit have come under fire from the Hondurans after their failure to hand a deal to midfielder Jorge Claros.
Nicknamed The Pitbull, Claros spent two weeks at Murray Park trying to secure a contract and impressed McCoist.
However, the lack of money around the club meant no offer was made to the international star and he sloped off back to Central America.
Claros was left stunned and his club Motagua are raging at the treatment of their prized asset.
The Hondurans wanted around £800,000 for their player but sources at the club say Rangers offered less than half that amount.
President Pedro Atala said: “The truth is that Rangers offered an absurd amount for Claros. We made it clear from the start what we believed was a fair price.
“He is a very good player and deserves to be treated better than this.”
With Jelavic on the verge of being sold, McCoist is desperate for a striker to fill the void but has buttons to play with.
He wants Albanian Salihi – but he’s now the subject of a big-money offer from Asia. Changchun Yatai, where Ibrox flop Matt McKay spent a short time on loan, are willing to hand the Rapid Vienna attacker a chunky wage to go to China.
Bawsman says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:26 am
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paulmac2 says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:05 am
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Did Hearts ever get paid the transfer fees for Wallace and Templeton?
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Pretty sure a deal was done and moneys paid. Part of the scam to get the new club shoe horned into League 3 was that Green had to honour the dead clubs ‘football debts’
Must be very galling for the shafted creditors, not to mention the debenture holders to witness that.
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The football creditor rule needs to be repealed, if clubs going bust effects other clubs, then tighter financial rules would have to be urgently applied to protect all clubs. That could only be a good thing!
StevieBC says:
June 26, 2013 at 10:12 pm
upthehoops says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:51 pm
twopanda says:
June 26, 2013 at 9:15 pm
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Loads of stuff to think about but it seems the SFA and the MSM are going to ride out the storm no matter what …
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Perhaps the ‘behind the scenes’ story about the SFA’s performance over the last couple of years will only be told via a book ? There must be at least one brass-necked Scottish ‘journo’ planning to release a ‘tell-all’ book in the future – which might include details that they have sat on / refused to report in their newspaper ?
And did Green not make a comment he was planning to write a book ? [I know, fiction only]. IMO, there would undoubtedly be demand for a comprehensive book about all the nonsense around the SFA, TRFC, 5WA, licensing etc… to tie up all the loose ends for all the obsessives out there… 🙄
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You know I think the real Blockbuster might come from Green – OK it will be be megamaniacal in delivery but if he decides to go for it he could severely damage the Dignity Boardroom cabal as well as the SFA and SPL suits.
I’m not even sure he needs try to be incendiary he is just naturally capable of doing it – and I think the one of the things that rankles with him is the 5-way agreement and I’ll post separately on that in a moment.
The other huge factor compared to CF is that the Bears just dismiss ‘her’ stuff because of the Whyte connection which might be involved. But they still love Green down Ibrox way and they’ll buy the book in droves. Green is a salesman and he really will sell the book, get his digs in and earn dosh and that’s what it’s all about for him.
I doubt we’ll get very much info on the financial side or the shareholders from Green though – that’s still a job that needs to be done. As to a SMSM journo doing a tell-all expose I doubt if that would be on the cards because the obvious question would be well why didn’t you write it in your paper. So the papers could ‘veto’ any book linked to an employee which leaves it to a freelance.
There is also the fact that I believe the reluctance to use the CF material is because journos are conflicted more heavily than even CF has been able to expose with PR operators and so are their bosses. And that doesn’t go away just because they are writing a book – it still hangs over their heads.
And it really would be a mammoth task for a freelance in terms of time and effort and I feel it might need to be a labour of love as I’m not sure about the financial returns as I doubt if many Blue pounds would be spent on it.
So my money is on Green – it would definitely read like fiction but the thing I have always noticed about Green’s rants is that there were always nuggets – of various varieties – buried in them.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
June 27, 2013 at 8:12 am
Wylie and Bisset, the SFL’s accountants, claim they have been unable to fulfil the scope of due diligence as a result of the lack of detail provided by the SPL.
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£8 MILLION of YOUR MONEY spent on ‘BULLY BOY’ agents as papers to MSP reveal Accountant in Bankruptcy secretly seize benefits of disabled, trashing lives of Scots on the brink
An investigation of Mr Gordon’s case on Scots law website Scottish Law Reporter identified a firm Glasgow accountants, Wylie & Bisset who have been acting for the Accountant in Bankruptcy against Mr Gordon.
The Herald newspaper & Scottish Law Reporter have previously reported that Wylie & Bisset, who have been paid a whopping TWO MILLION POUNDS of public money to act for the AIB in sequestration cases, had also attempted to seize Mr Gordon’s home (which he does not own) and the home of an unrelated family in another town in order to pay off questionable debts claimed by a Perth based law firm, Kippen Campbell.
#scottishcorruption
I have always been intrigued by a paragraph in the Rangers AIM flotation prospectus which discusses the 5-way Agreement which reads:
RFCL also agreed to release the SFA, SPL and SFL and their directors and officers from all claims connected with their conduct, the registration embargo and the obligations under the 5 Way Agreement. Further, RFCL agreed to procure that its directors and officers will not commence any proceedings
in this connection’.
So what exactly was the ‘conduct’ that the prospectus mentions involving the SFA, SPL and SFL as well as their directors and officers? I can think of possible reasons why TRFCL might want or threaten to take action but it goes further than that to guarantee that Rangers directors and officers wouldn’t ‘commence any proceedings’.
It all sounds very personal and I keep wondering is this why the Agreement has been kept so secret and other wraps – comeon Charlie write the Book you know you can do it 🙂
In the same section of the prospectus (12.1.7) there is a bit that that hadn’t really penetrated my skull prior to the ‘club’ debate which states: ‘The SFA, SPL, SFL, RFC 2012 plc and RFCL entered into an agreement dated 27 July 2012 (the “5 Way Agreement”) pursuant to which RFC 2012 plc’s SPL share was transferred to
Dundee Football Club, RFC 2012 plc’s SFA membership was transferred to RFC . . .
‘and provide various undertakings in consideration for the transfer of (i) the SFA membership of RFC 2012 plc to RFCL and (ii) the registration of the Club and players from the SPL to the SFL’s third division’.
I hate to say this but it is now clear to me that a lot of the discussion of the rule books on the ‘club’ issue was of little importance. The transfer in reality had nothing to do with the Rule Books because the transfer was based on the secret 5-way Agreement pure and simple. Obviously at one level I’ve always known that Rangers accepted certain sanctions to achieve a result but I assumed the various mechanisms involved were conducted under the respective rule books and therefore had some legitimacy to them.
They obviously weren’t and I don’t believe that there is any possible justification under any of the Rule Books to justify the 5-way Agreement or indeed to set existing rules aside. But that Agreement had to be protected at all costs by the Hampden suits.
Because if it was questioned and/or not defended then Rangers would have been in the position of being released from its threat not to take action against the SFA, SPL and SFL and their directors and officers for their ‘conduct’. I’m beginning to wonder whether it wasn’t just CW that was taping meetings.
There really is a festering pile of deceit at the heart of the 5-way Agreement and Scottish Football will never be able to move forward until it is exposed and the ‘guilty’ men are removed from office
Danish Pastry says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:28 am
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That last paragraph in Grant’s article is shameless advertising and ought not to be allowed. People should contact the editor and complain as well as do what I do – stop buying the Herald.
I wonder if Grant is on the Ibrox payroll too? Nothing would surprise me these days
Charlotte Fakeovers says:
June 26, 2013 at 1:07 pm
Althetim quoted a quote aroundabouts June 26, 2013 at 9:00 am
From the Daily Rectum article:
“Green has subsequently insisted he was stringing Whyte along so he could get his shares — a plan he
says changed when the club were liquidated and Whyte’s shares were no longer needed.”
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Let’s just blow that Charles Green claim to smithereens. Craig Whyte was always a key player in this game. His shares were absolutely vital to the end game. As part of the deal, Craig permitted Imran to vote by proxy on his behalf with matters relating to the Rangers name change to RFC 2012 plc.
Without that smokescreen, it may have been impossible to carry on with the ‘Rangers’ brand and the current reincarnations would most certainly not have been permitted to share a similar name to the organisation in administration.
It stank then, it still does.
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Had a look back at previous posts from yesterday and came across this one from Charlotte that didn’t get any responses.
According to this, if I’m reading it correctly, Craig Whyte authorised the sale of the assets to Sevco Scotland and also voted to change the name of Rangers FC PLC to RFC 2012 PLC, which was carried out at general meeting in July 2012 with Duff & Phelps.
If I’ve got this wrong then feel free to correct me, but from my untrained eye it looks as though Whyte’s claims that the sale to Sevco Scotland was illegal are nonsense.
Matteo Galy says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:34 am
According to this, if I’m reading it correctly, Craig Whyte authorised the sale of the assets to Sevco Scotland and also voted to change the name of Rangers FC PLC to RFC 2012 PLC, which was carried out at general meeting in July 2012 with Duff & Phelps.
If I’ve got this wrong then feel free to correct me, but from my untrained eye it looks as though Whyte’s claims that the sale to Sevco Scotland was illegal are nonsense.
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Where does it say he authorized the sale? He gave IA proxy right to vote for him for name change only.
slimshady61 says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:20 am
Danish Pastry says:
June 27, 2013 at 7:28 am
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That last paragraph in Grant’s article is shameless advertising and ought not to be allowed. People should contact the editor and complain as well as do what I do – stop buying the Herald.
I wonder if Grant is on the Ibrox payroll too? Nothing would surprise me these days
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You would think his newspaper could do with the advertising money without giving out freebies!
slimshady61 says:
June 27, 2013 at 9:20 am
“..I wonder if Grant is on the Ibrox payroll too? Nothing would surprise me these days”
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I’ve just emailed him (Michael.Grant@heraldandtimes ) to ask.
Might as well hear from the horse’s a.se himself!
“Dear Michael,
I wonder if you would be so kind as to re-assure me that, you are not, and have never been, in receipt of any payment from RFC (IL) or new club RIFC
in return for using your ‘Herald’ column as an advertising feature for them?
Yours,
John Clarke
Eventually this bizarre story will follow us straight to the start….Sir David Murray and co…..the fall out is going to be something to behold .These last 2 years have been an education in who to trust……Braw!