The SPFL— the case for revolution, evolution and a case of the Hamilton Whackies !

Good Evening.

As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?

Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.

In truth, that scares me.

It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.

It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.

I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.

Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.

If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.

Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.

However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.

Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.

Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?

I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.

Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.

However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.

As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.

So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?

Any fan representative could  be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.

Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.

In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.

Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.

Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?

If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.

In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.

In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.

Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.

Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!

Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.

When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.

The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.

However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.

Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.

The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).

In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.

In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?

 

4,181 thoughts on “The SPFL— the case for revolution, evolution and a case of the Hamilton Whackies !


  1. Sugar Daddy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 9:18 pm
    ———————————

    Understand your cautiousness … and I am assuming that you are fully aware of Rizvi’s past and the severe allegations regarding bank century and his interpol listing.

    In the case of Rizvi you cannot have any suggestion or link or association simply because of his Toxidity …
    The SFA rely in the main on self declaration but do need to know who the ultimate financiers and backers are …. for good reason.
    There is IMO enough body of circumstantial evidence growing that it must soon (if not now) be evident that a more fuller investigation needs to be conducted to eliminate any possible link … however tenuous


  2. Charlotte Fakeovers says:
    June 27, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    150,000 documents at least, not the 15k you refer to.

    It’s painstaking work, and of course compounded by the fact that Craig Whyte is not the only person in this saga to have used an alias. SDM will know what I mean,
    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    150.000 documents at an average of say 5 minutes each to open, read and consider thouroughly working 10 hours a day 7 days a week and 52 weeks of the year would take three and a half years to go through.
    The only way this info is coming out is through the control and direction of CW.

    He is the puppeteer and hes pulling CF strings on every release why else has he not threatened legal action, CF is about the only person in this whole fieasco he hasnt threatened to take to court!


  3. slimshady61 says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    I can’t agree with you there – getting Craig Whyte live on air would be a massive scoop. To challenge him on his honesty would hardly help achieve this. Clyde 1 is a commercial radio station. If Craig Whyte was live on radio, I would listen, and so would many others. Listeners = ratings = advertising revenue.

    Of course she was stroking his ego and sympathising a little. It is a non-story.


  4. Castofthousands says:
    June 27, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    The long way round:
    Nova >BVI registered Total International Investments Limited >H. B. Properties PLC > Hanseatic & Baltic Properties Asia Pte. Limited > Leo Knifton > Airleys > Whyte.
    I’m sure there is shorter routes, possibly via Christopher Andrew Morgan of Nova/ACC/Abela.
    I suspect that’s too convoluted for you. You’ll be wanting nothing less than a picture of them all with Murray in the Bollinger Bar bar at the Balmoral, I suppose.
    But that’s the whole point of this goose-chase. Whilst we’re all playing Cluedo, we’re forgetting about pivotal role of (-S)DM (and Irvine) in this entire charade.


  5. ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    ‘….But perception is all ………
    ———-
    I don’t know anything about Herbison as a journalist, so I have to allow for the POSSIBILITY
    that she was thinking of trying to get some sort of journalistic kudos from a one-to-one on air with hero/villain of the moment, and may have intended a ‘serious’ interview. ( Although she was presumably acting under the station manager’s instructions.)

    But the Mata Hari, quasi -honey-trap kind of approach probably was unlikely to have been a cover for a planned Paxman-type of interview, especially if pre-recorded.

    And there was a distasteful element of dog-eat-dog in her attitude.
    I would say, therefore, that your post has expressed my thoughts to the finest nuance.


  6. Robert Coyle says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Business Overview
    Scottish Football Association Limited (the) is an Active business incorporated in Scotland on 29th September 1903. Their business activity is recorded as Other Sports Activities. Scottish Football Association Limited (the) is run by 7 current members. and 1 company secretary. It has no share capital. It is also part of a group.

    The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/12/2012 reported ‘cash at bank’ of £13,662,420, ‘liabilities’ worth £19,158,208, ‘net worth’ of £7,925,015 and ‘assets’ worth £19,049,052. Scottish Football Association Limited (the)’s risk score was amended on 22/06/2013.

    http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC005453/SCOTTISH-FOOTBALL-ASSOCIATION-LIMITED-THE


  7. beatipacificiscotia says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Contracts with suppliers will have contract definitions. What are the chances that one or two might include “Rangers FC”, or simply “Rangers” or “the Club”? Would it be worth a creditor taking the current club to court of the basis that they claim to be the same club, and they have a contract with “the Club”?

    It was the mention of “the Club” in the Jelavic contract that got me thinking.
    =================================================================

    If the contract was with ‘Rangers’ or the ‘Club’ it’s an interesting point. But the immediate problem I see is whether the court would accept that that either was a legal entity and I don’t think there’s any chance of that so the ‘contract’ wouldn’t be legally enforceable. There’s also the issue of who drew up the contract if there’s any ambiguity in it through faulty construction then it will be held against the drafter.

    I very much doubt that the type of contract you describe would have ‘definitions’ but would be more likely written on a fag packet. Tbh I see disgruntled suppliers more likely to argue that their contract was with the operating company – which gives them legal rights if proven – than the club where they might have moral rights but will never have legal ones.

    I would say that any current creditor of the liquidated company taking action would be dismissed by the courts because legally they would be required to follow the admin/liquidation process.

    But I was curious as to why the Jelavic contract set-off your train of thoughts because my understanding is it’s the SPL standard contract and the employer is The Rangers FC Plc so therefore they are the responsible legal entity as far as the contract and Jelavic and the SPL is concerned.


  8. iamacant says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:21 pm
    ———————————————————
    Thanks but that’s the S.F.A,its the S.F.Ls company name i’m looking for.


  9. Other than being the man who single handedly destroyed Rangers (they were fecked well before Whyte took over) and who almost did the same to Scottish senior football I don’t think David Murray was involved in the Whyte / Green flustercluck.

    He sold to Whyte because he had to and didn’t care about the consequences. Lloyds controlled everything by that stage and got their money back in addition to getting away form the tax situation.

    I have seen nothing to say that David Murray was involved in any of the subsequent shenanigans.


  10. beatipacificiscotia says:

    ‘……. Would it be worth a creditor taking the current club to court of the basis that they claim to be the same club, and they have a contract with “the Club”? It would make for a very interesting debate, particularly if it was one of the larger creditors or with a supplier who had their contract terminated. How about Ticketus, or the creditors of JJB? ..’
    ——–
    The largest of them all, good old HMRC, might conceivably be considering this!


  11. john clarke says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    I doubt it.

    They are more likely to go after the individuals concerned.


  12. beatipacificiscotia says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:15 pm
    ———————————–
    Nah, the latter emails represent the missing of an open goal; the early exchanges are nothing more than a gauche attempt by LH to get her & Alison Robbie a freebie to Ibrox, presumably so that they can get their hands on CW’s Loving Cup

    Let’s not forget, RFC were widely predicted to be on their financial uppers from late December onwards but you’d never guess from the tone of these emails.

    “Business as usual” is the undertone throughout these exchanges, with just the slightest hint of frisson between the two… “84 Charing Cross Road” it’s not, more the Hinshelwood (Love) Triangle?


  13. Charlotte Fakeovers says:
    June 27, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    It’s painstaking work, and of course compounded by the fact that Craig Whyte is not the only person in this saga to have used an alias. SDM will know what I mean,
    ============================================

    CF, presumably you have uncovered material which supports your ‘implied’ statement above re: (S)DM ?
    Can you share this information ?


  14. Bill Miller was too close to the solution that was already in the minds of the Resurrection Men. The £30M black hole, despite the assumption of SPL football, the poisonous press coverage and the vitriolic, organised e-mail campaign took some organising.
    Printed banners, not the usual painted bedsheets.
    It’s always been, and it always will be, about the money, not history, football, tradition, supporters, creditors or even shareholders. Minimum cash in, maximum cash out.


  15. I posted a question last night concerning whether a player has to be registered within a certain time after signing a contract and after having a look at the SFA registration rules it does indeed appear to be the case.

    I am unsure how to post a screenshot but rule 2.7.1 seems to state that for a player registration form to be valid it has to be done within 14 days of the date on the contract. The question now being have Rangers new signings actually ‘signed’? (I would assume so since the embargo is one of registration rather than signing)

    I realise this is a small issue given all that has gone on but, as a fan of a lower league club who you can be damn sure are made to abide by every single rule no matter how trivial, it’s another reason to look at Scottish football and think ‘why do I bother’.


  16. Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug 16m

    So the Hampden meeting that the 42 Scottish league clubs turned up for at 0845 hasn’t started yet. #restructuring


  17. Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug 18m

    So the Hampden meeting that the 42 Scottish league clubs turned up for at 0845 hasn’t started yet. #restructuring


  18. beatipacificiscotia says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    getting Craig Whyte live on air would be a massive scoop.
    ——————————————————————————————————
    He appeared to make it clear in the exchange he wouldn’t be doing it live and that was accepted – see the emails below.

    One email stated: We could either do it as a pre-record (which might be easier for you) or we could do it live. Youwouldn’t have to answer calls from the fans either and it could etiher be on the phone or in the studio.

    Another stated: As I said before we can do a pre-record with Jim Delahunt – you don’t need to do anything live.


  19. ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    If you start at the beginning of the argument – what is a Football Club – you soon arrive at club and company being the same thing and the terms interchangeable. The idea that the club has moral rights (I’ll change that to obligations) but not legal rights (again, I prefer obligations) is nonsense. A club, the legal entity, has both but it is only the latter that are the concern of the courts.

    Start back at the beginning – what is a Football Club – and go from there. If you come to a sign post that points Club and Company in different directions, you have gone the wrong way. Turn round and head back to the true path.


  20. Robert Coyle says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Thanks but that’s the S.F.A,its the S.F.Ls company name i’m looking for.
    ——————————————————————————————-

    I have a vague memory that the SFL isn’t a Ltd company but an association – it should spell it out in the constitution or Articles I would have thought.


  21. beatipacificiscotia says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    If you start at the beginning of the argument – what is a Football Club – you soon arrive at club and company being the same thing and the terms interchangeable. The idea that the club has moral rights (I’ll change that to obligations) but not legal rights (again, I prefer obligations) is nonsense. A club, the legal entity, has both but it is only the latter that are the concern of the courts.

    Start back at the beginning – what is a Football Club – and go from there. If you come to a sign post that points Club and Company in different directions, you have gone the wrong way. Turn round and head back to the true path.
    =====================================================
    I don’t need to start at the beginning – I offered my view of the legal position of a club wrt its debts and not according to footballing rule book definitions which are less than helpful on the subject. But you obviously know the answer to your question anyway so all’s well that ends well 🙂


  22. Gaz says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:29 pm
    —-
    ‘….I have seen nothing to say that David Murray was involved in any of the subsequent shenanigans…’
    ——–
    Well, there has been a fair bit of speculation on the question of whether he is the ultimate master-mind behind the engagement of CW to run the club into Administration in the expectation of , through a dodgy admin process, getting the club back again, through the agency of CW, debt free and still in the SPL.

    Many different scripts could be written to explain how that scenario did not pan out according to plan.

    But I think all of us ordinary punters have not so much had our eyes opened , but have been made googly-eyed, at what we have learned of the duplicity and sheer readiness of people in Football to corrupt and be corrupted, and to cross and double-cross each other.

    And thereby made ready to cast a cynical eye on people who, despite running a hundred businesses, can be ‘duped’ by a semi-educated ‘businessman’ with a track record of running companies into failure.

    You are absolutely right, of course, in saying that there is no evidence of such a complex ( BUT probably not thought too risky, given certain connections) conspiracy.

    We are entitled to dig, and take no man’s word as gospel truth, whether he be an official of the Footballing Authorities or the spokesperson for any board of directors, or any creepy-crawler ‘entrepreneur’ or ‘business consortium’. ( And aren’t there some really distasteful people sniffing around the trough?)

    And certainly we must wholly distrust our MSM ( except, perhaps, BBC Scotland TV) because they have refused, and still refuse, to do any serious investigation, intent as they are on safe-guarding the illicit new club, at all cost to truth and fairness and any idea of ‘sporting integrity’.


  23. Re the five way agreement, CF is already on record as confirming that the version she has is the same draft agreement that has been in the public domain for at least nine months

    Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 9 Jun
    Version of 5 way agreement with legal comments discovered. Looks like draft 1 (as published).With 150,000 docs to review, it’s a long game.


  24. Gaz says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:29 pm
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————-
    ” I have seen nothing to say that David Murray was involved in any of the subsequent shenanigans. ”

    Nor does he have to be. That’s why Jack and Ramsay “always get paid”. Hand-picked Spivs come and go, but there are still a few “constants” – like Jack, Sir Cardigan, McCoist. Even Bain was touted for a return recently. All Murray men.
    Grier turning up at Charlotte Square and Murray’s ‘dental appointment’ at Murray park when McCoist threatened to walk would indicate (to me, anyway) an interest in certain, critical, post-MIH scenarios that needed reference to some kind of blueprint.


  25. Robert Coyle says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Don’t know if undernote is helpful from HMRC site – I don’t know if SFL is unincorporated association or not though.

    Undernote:

    The characteristics of an unincorporated association have emerged primarily from case law.

    An unincorporated association:

    is not a legal entity,
    is an organisation of persons or bodies (more than one) with an identifiable membership (possibly changing),
    has a membership who are bound together for a common purpose by an identifiable constitution or rules (which may be written or oral),
    is an organisation where the form of association is not one which is recognised in law as being something else (for example, an incorporated body or a partnership),
    must have an existence distinct from those persons who would be regarded as its members,
    the tie between the persons need not be a legally enforceable contract.

    Whether an organisation is an unincorporated association is a question of fact and will depend upon a consideration of all the relevant circumstances. It cannot be determined by simply looking at what the organisation calls itself or the form of its rules.

    There is no reason why an unincorporated body should not have trading or business objects, or carry on significant commercial activities.


  26. Not forgetting …

    The alleged ‘living’ email that nails D&P as responsible for wording and sending their own ‘get out of jail free’ card, and supported by the Audio explaining how/what they would do.


  27. ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    I am very clear on the answer, and it will be for sharper legal minds than mine to shape the questions. I think you missed the point I was making originally, give it another read. Any action would have zero chance of success in court. It is not about winning in court, it is about asking the questions that will deliver the answers that will put this debate to bed once and for all.

    Will it even happen? Who knows – but it would be nice to not have to read rubbish about club / company / undertaking again.


  28. Which journalist/pundit/scribbler pursued SDM for the truth behind the ‘selling for £30M…sold for £1’ line. Who demanded that SDM explain anything about the Big Tax Case, let alone the Small One. Which fearless inky bloodhound sniffed out the real story of SDM’s 100 companies going down faster than a dog on chips?
    Not the ones working in Scotland, they were too busy making excuses for CW, then CG now WS. Prior? I thought he was lifting the bonnet!


  29. @Robert Coyle at 10:27pm

    The SFL isn’t a company, it’s an unincorporated association.

    From the SFL constitution:

    “1. TITLE
    This Association of football clubs shall be called “The Scottish Football
    League” (hereinafter “the League”)”

    From the SFA Articles interpretation section:

    “”the Scottish Football League” means the unincorporated association of football clubs called The Scottish Football League, having its principal office at Hampden Park Glasgow G42 9AB”


  30. Another possibility about the Razvi email to CG …

    It is possible that Rizvi was asking for £600k of the funds held by Imran from Razv (£5.5m)i to be transferred to ACC … if I remember right they were discussing the share division of the alleged Rizvi stock … some as penny shares some as more expensive …. will check


  31. ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:03 pm
    1 1 Rate This

    Well for an anorak like myself ……………
    **********************************************
    Ecobhoy. Being an anorak is a small fault in a good man. Hope you don’t find a new hobby any time soon, like the swally, or, heaven forfend, chasin wimmin.
    Always enjoy your posts and your part in the ensuing debate. Is that not what we (you) are supposed to be engaged in?
    Keep it up!


  32. A measure of Rizvi toxidity by Imran ….

    IA Response to CW …

    “Let’s just say an association with you is much better than an association with Rafat.”

    LOL


  33. CharlotteFakes, if you don’t mind me asking:

    Do you have a plan? a strategy? a particular target? an end game in mind?

    I’m personally delighted with each snippet, a simple yes, or no to the above would suffice.

    Thanks for what you’ve spilled up until now.


  34. For the last 7/10 days most items on this Forum have been with regards to whether Sevco or The Rangers
    are a new club or an existing club with history.
    This situation will never arrive at a definitive decision where everybody agrees.
    1. The supporters of Sevco or The Rangers will always claim to be the same club.
    2. Every other football supporter in Scotland knows that Sevco or The Rangers are a new club with nearly
    one year of history.
    3. Today we have been subjected to Sevco or The Rangers unveiling their 3 new strips for 2013/2014 with
    5 gold stars on them for some reason.
    4. There shame and contempt for Scottish Football has no limits.
    5. This Forum should be concentrating their efforts in removing the morally corrupt officials within the
    Scottish Football Authorities that require to be removed from their positions to ensure that Scottish
    Football may operate without favour to any member club.


  35. Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug
    New SPFL board made up by representatives from Celtic, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hamilton Accies, Alloa and Stenhousemuir #restructuring

    But who will be the main man in charge?


  36. john clarke says:
    June 27, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    10

    0

    Rate This

    ________________________________________

    To summarise: It seems there are only 2 types of people involved in the Scottish footballing ‘establishment’ at present:
    Known crooks, and crooks who are -as yet- undiscovered.
    There are no innocent questions and honest answers because there are no honest investigators wanting answers : except the ‘bampots’.
    The establishment silence is deafening.
    Because an honest man speaks his mind without fear or favour, while a crook consults with his lawyer before giving a guarded answer, or taking the fifth.

    Full blown regulatory capture.


  37. upthehoops says:

    June 27, 2013 at 9:22 pm (Edit)

    TSFM says:
    June 27, 2013 at 6:06 pm
    37 1 Rate This

    Can’t see what Lorraine Herbison has done wrong in the alleged exchange between her an CW.
    =======================================================

    Strictly speaking she’s done nothing wrong, but it’s incredibly lazy journalism for her to indulge Whyte the way she did. There was strong evidence Whyte was a shyster but like most of the media Herbison opted for a policy of deference rather than seeking the truth.

    _________________________________________________________________________________

    Don’t agree. She was most probably trying to use flattery to get CW to commit. The editorial content of what goes out on Clyde is another matter of course, but I don’t get deference from this situation – not even close.

    To infer motive from what amounts to a bit of getting the man onside is extrapolation. Done it myself on umpteen occasions despite having nothing but contempt for the target. I like to think that it’s not lazy, but just using some good people skills.


  38. Charlotte,

    You have a lot of interesting things to say, and we welcome your input here, but twice tonight I have had to remove insulting content in your comments.

    Please try to keep within the spirit of the blog and engage with folk respectfully. I understand the frustration you feel when your motives are called into question, but we’d all like to think you have a better tool in your bag to deal with that than the sledgehammer of name-calling.


  39. M8 Dreamer says:
    June 28, 2013 at 12:30 am
    ‘……This Forum should be concentrating their efforts in removing the morally corrupt officials within the
    Scottish Football Authorities that require to be removed from their positions to ensure that Scottish
    Football may operate without favour to any member club.’

    Indeed, but only after these officials have rescinded, annulled, cancelled every act by which they have tried, and perversely keep trying, to legitimise RIFC as the inheritor of titles and trophies won ( some illicitly) by a now dead RFC.

    Once that is done, we can all look forward to a cleansing of the stables, the proper application of rules (which would , of course, require the expulsion of RIFC from the SFL and SFA) and reduce them to the status of mere aspirants to (the increasingly uncertain) SPFL!

    In all justice and truth, there is no alternative.


  40. Lorraine H’s. LinkedIn profile is a tad sixcountiestastic.

    A coincidence, I am sure. 🙂


  41. easyJambo says:
    June 28, 2013 at 12:45 am

    0

    0

    Rate This

    ______________________

    Celtic? …
    Aberdeen? … no fans of TRFC
    Dundee Utd? … no fans of TRFC (mmmm cranberries!)
    Hamilton/Stenhousmuir? – dunno their feeling on the Govan club but have no reason to suspect they have hidden agendas.

    If this is true I should imagine the bears will be in entering a state of full blown apoplexy by now. 🙂
    Jolly good I say!

    I would hope this make up is sending a smoke signal to all as to where the current contents of the Ibrox recycling bin sit within the pecking order of the new governance structure.

    I would add that I also expect the officers of the SPFL to bahave in a statesman like manner and not allow it to fall prey to the abuses of the past when a more Govan friendly administration was incumbent.
    Rules applied fairly without fear or favour.
    That is all we want to see.


  42. ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    Duplesis says:
    June 27, 2013 at 11:27 pm
    —————————————————-
    Thanks.interesting that it is considered a non legal entity but it can enter into legally binding sponsership contracts.Will check it out some more later.


  43. Slightly OT – but with Easdales and Park joining in on the vultures pecking at the carcass, is it any surprise to see the following announcement? Note the number plate R1 WTP – shame it did not have WATP. Thank goodness there is now a means to continue making friends the length and breadth of Ecosse – cue to much mirth on Twitter!

    http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/4330-new-coach-for-gers

    RANGERS’ brand new team bus has been described as the best in Scotland after it arrived in the country from Holland.

    Suppliers Bruce Coaches have invested a significant sum in what they call a ‘Premiership-level’ vehicle to transport Ally McCoist and his players around the country in.

    Specially-built for use by the club by Vanhool, the 41-seat bus carries all sorts of equipment which will make journeys as comfortable as possible for the Third Division champions.

    It was inspired by a trip to look at the coach Liverpool use last season and was ordered last September.

    As well as luxury leather seating with extended legroom, the bus has satellite television, wifi, power sockets, a top-of-the-range sound system and a computer game console.

    There are also extensive cooking facilities including an oven, hotplates and fridges for first-team chef Paul Lafferty to prepare meals for the squad after matches.

    One of the tables is hydraulic and can be lowered to the same level as the chairs around it to create an area for injured players to lie down on and receive treatment.

    Manager McCoist, his assistant Kenny McDowall and coach Ian Durrant all have seats with personalised headrests on them as well.

    Complete with carpets in Rangers’ own tartan, the bus even has a separate bed compartment which allows members of the group to rest in privacy if required.

    The Light Blues will use the bus for first time when they travel north for their opening pre-season fixture at Highland League outfit Brora a week on Sunday.

    You can get a sneak preview of what the players can expect by watching our video of the vehicle on RangersTV now. Click HERE to sign up to the official club channel.

    Fans are also able to hire the coach for corporate use including for weddings and funerals and can call the hotline on 0871 702 1972 for further information.

    Driver Greg Docherty said: “It’s a 14.2-metre bus which was delivered to us on Tuesday morning after coming into the country two weeks ago and going through safety checks first.

    “It’s a Premiership-level coach which is fully equipped with multimedia systems including Sky television, smart TVs and a PS3.

    “The kitchen facilities include a commercial-level oven, there’s a coffee-making machine and so much more.

    “It really is a top-range vehicle and there’s nothing else like it in Scotland. There never has been before and it’s superb.

    “Mr Bruce is a Rangers supporter and he wants the team to have the best so he has endeavoured to make it as good as he possibly could.

    “Anything that we could do to make the players as comfortable as possible for their journeys to away grounds we have done as well as we could.

    “The seats are bigger than they were in last season’s vehicle and there is more room for each person so they should all be very relaxed and comfortable.”


  44. Some of the funny Twitter messages regarding the new world class bus….

    Achill Islam CSC ‏@Propa_Gander 5h
    AAAAAWLL ABOARD!! TICKETUS PLEASE

    Dass Butt ‏@Dass_Butt 5h
    @Propa_Gander @Pmacgiollabhain its a new bus with the history of the old bus, same seats, same engine, same colour of paint as the old bus.

    Peter Lawwell ‏@PeteLawwell 6h (Note spoof account – not the real PL!)
    Sevco have unveiled a bus for their 2nd Division journeys.

    This is what we will be using for a lot of our games: pic.twitter.com/553ztP2fqK

    THT ‏@TheHumanTorpedo 5h
    So Walter Smith becomes Rangers chairman and suddenly the club get a new bus to park. Coincidence?

    Etc etc………….


  45. Celtic – financial future not tied to TRFC, but better off if OF rivalry can be resurrected.
    DUFC – no friends of Sevco
    Aberdeen – the chairman seems to think the club will be better off under a dominant Celtic and Trangers.
    Stenhousemuir – (I think) one of the only clubs to vote Sevco into SFL1.
    Hamilton & Alloa – I have no information.

    On balance, I’d say Sevco would accept that setup. Who do you think will be bumped if thy survive long enough to make it to the top flight?


  46. Re Rizvi
    Sevco could have
    Satan at the helm ,Hitler as PR man Peter Sutcliffe as the handy man ,and Harold Shipman as club doctor and the peepil in the SFA would still give them a licence .
    As for the new bus
    Typical MSM/LL sycophancy Sevco never just get any old thing
    Owner …..wealth of the radar
    investor …brainiest man on the PLANET ever
    Bus ………bestest bus in world football ever
    Just a thought but the Greenock bus investors must be a bit peeved the pride of their fleet was not purchased


  47. Good Morning
    With reference to the new committee I would point out that Stenhousemuir are total Sevco.
    If my memory is correct it is where George Peat went after Airdrie went into liquidation under his stewardship.
    Don’t expect any favours from that direction.


  48. TSFM says:
    June 28, 2013 at 12:46 am

    To infer motive from what amounts to a bit of getting the man onside is extrapolation.
    ==============================================================

    Disagree. It depends on your view is of the media’s role should be. I don’t think it’s unfair to assume Lorraine Herbison’s part in this was the same sycophantic approach the rest of the media used until it became blindingly obvious Whyte was taking Rangers into a head on collision (having taken over the driving from David Murray of course). Herbison IMO was/is part of an inexplicably sycophantic media towards all things Rangers, which even extends to people who are shysters beyond doubt. It was her that time, Darrel King before and we await with interest to see how many more.

    IMO It’s not getting people onside, it’s lazy at best, and institutionalised bias at worst. They didn’t waste any time with ‘Mad Vlad’, and Celtic people have had a torrid time in the past, so there is no excuse with Whyte.


  49. Charlotte Fakeovers says:
    June 28, 2013 at 2:25 am
    24 8 Rate This

    TSFM says:June 28, 2013 at 12:50 am

    Charlotte,

    You have a lot of interesting things to say, and we welcome your input here, but twice tonight I have had to remove insulting content in your comments.
    ————————————————————————————————-

    I think you should review the patronising tone of your response. You might not realise that you’re coming across in the same way as someone proclaiming “it’s ma baw” but it’s starting to look that way from here.

    if you’re into public lectures, give me a shout, I’ll start with you.
    ———-

    Since we’re not into sweeping stuff under the carpet, this makes uncomfortable reading. The principle espoused here is that there are no sacred cows, no one too big or too important to be treated as a special case. I can understand CF’s frustration that the releases are mostly falling on deaf media ears, but since this is the only non-partisan forum (some people dispute that) to take the stuff seriously and debate it, it’s kind of important that the posting guidelines are followed. Lotte, can’t you use Twitlonger for contentious stuff 😉


  50. Exiled Celt says:
    June 28, 2013 at 4:58 am

    Funny you should mention the team bus.

    I know someone who got on a superdooper fancy leather seated coach for a day trip earlier this year and the driver said it had been T’ Rangers bus but they couldn’t afford it so it was being put to general use.

    Could just be the driver making stories. Anyone out there heard similar?

    If true, I wonder where the money is coming from to fund next seasons Mysterty Machine?


  51. wottpi says:
    June 28, 2013 at 7:52 am
    1 0 Rate This

    If true, I wonder where the money is coming from to fund next seasons Mysterty Machine?
    ———

    @Wottpi
    I think it said Bruce’s bus (who’s Bruce?) is also available for weddings and funerals. And if the bus is used for ‘oot and hame’ same day, hotel bills will be saved in places like the Costa del Brora. Just a thought.


  52. This one might go into the moderation page but here goes.

    I said some time ago that I didn’t think much would happen over the close season.

    So far Charolttes info has been useful in confirming what most of us felt – that everyone and their uncle was always behind the club from Govan and that the whole adminstration and buying of assets was one big Spiv-fest.

    From what we hear Charlotte has a a huge pile of documents to get through and this is why information is coming out in dribs and drabs. A frustrating task no doubt.

    At present she does not appear to have an overall plan or an end game nor does she claim to be CW or anyone else for that matter.

    If she was being directed by one of the ‘players’, then it is they, and not Charlotte, who will point to the smoking gun when they are ready. ( As discussed if I was CW I’d be looking to do the most damage by trying to get the gates at Ibrox padlocked just before the start of the season not during the Glesga Fair)

    So, if Charlotte is trawling through masses of paperwork, as decent journos will tell you, the smoking gun isn’t always going to jump up and slap you in the face. It takes a bit of hard work slogging thought the material for that one nugget.

    Therefore we must all be patient, including Charlotte herself, and maintain the decorum that has generally been a trademark of this site and RTC before it.

    Many posters want the footballing authorities to rule without fear or favour, therefore we should all abide with the rules of the site.

    If we don’t like it then we can go elsewhere and find the forum that we want or just stop posting altogether.

    Some blowhards have already gone away in the huff and I don’t think they are being missed that much.

    The point is the journos don’t call this the ‘silly season’ for nothing so lets all just ‘Keep The Heid’.


  53. An unincorporated association is a legally recognised form of organisation, and the easiest to set up.

    It is formed of a number of individuals – who are each responsible for their own tax arrangements, perhaps under self employment – who agree to come together for any common purpose. Relatively straightforward to run, it’s again a good idea to have a written constitution to refer to and, if it’s big enough, a management committee to run it. It will therefore cost nothing to set up.

    The individuals in the association make their own rules for running the organisation and set these down in a democratic constitution. These associations are not registered with or regulated by either Companies House or the Financial Services Authority, whic do however regulate companies, charities and co-operatives. You will not need to produce or submit annual returns as each member is responsible for their own tax and accounts.

    Unincorporated associations can trade or have other business objectives, or carry on commercial activities, but would be ineligible to apply for funding aimed at more regulated organisations, such as charities. They cannot own property directly, but can own property through a trust.

    It is important to note that an unincorporated association has no separate ‘legal identity’ – meaning there is an unlimited liability on members should anything go wrong. You will have to sign loans, leases and contracts as individuals, and carry the risk of personal liability in case of problems.

    Although useful to test out a project and begin to work together, this structure is probably not a long-term solution if you intend to sign contracts, employ people or expand the enterprise.

    http://www.artquest.org.uk/articles/view/unincorporated-association
    ———————————————————-
    So who employs David Longmuir?

    How do we find out what financial shape the S.F.L are in if they don’t have to produce annual accounts?


  54. Danish Pastry says:
    June 28, 2013 at 8:04 am

    Could be a good shout on the cost saving
    Everyone next season is close by other than Stanraer, Forfar and Brechin and even then thats hardly to the ends of the earth. Staying in hotels pre-game would just be madness.


  55. Robert Coyle @ 8:37

    From the SFL Constitution and Rules:
    62. FINANCIAL STATEMENTS
    The financial statements in respect of each accounting period of the League
    must be approved by the Board, and shall be submitted to the Annual
    General Meeting with the approval of the Board.

    The employer is probably the Board of the SFL.


  56. About the bus – there was talk a few weeks ago that the Easdales had been sounding out the Rangers board to see if they could get a seat. Did someone misunderstand what they meant?


  57. ********
    ptd1978 says:
    June 28, 2013 at 5:33 am

    Celtic – financial future not tied to TRFC, but better off if OF rivalry can be resurrected.
    DUFC – no friends of Sevco
    Aberdeen – the chairman seems to think the club will be better off under a dominant Celtic and Trangers.
    Stenhousemuir – (I think) one of the only clubs to vote Sevco into SFL1.
    Hamilton & Alloa – I have no information.
    On balance, I’d say Sevco would accept that setup. Who do you think will be bumped if thy survive long enough to make it to the top flight?
    ********
    Hoopy 7 says:
    June 28, 2013 at 7:06 am

    Morning
    With reference to the new committee I would point out that Stenhousemuir are total Sevco.
    If my memory is correct it is where George Peat went after Airdrie went into liquidation under his stewardship.
    Don’t expect any favours from that direction.
    **********

    For misinformation, whistle-blowing and finger pointing, these two posts are right up there with the sort of stuff found on some Rangers fan sites.

    Stenhousemuir did not vote Sevco into SFL1.

    “Following a Q & A with Stewart Regan (SFA) and a presentation and Q & A from Rangers Newco, and a lengthy debate, Stenhousemuir Football Club voted to accept Rangers Newco into the SFL, and voted for their entry in to the 3rd Division.” Quote from http://www.stenhousemuirfc.com/news/2012/07/17/795/

    Also on that page:
    “Stenhousemuir Football Club is extremely disappointed at the way this whole saga has been handled by the SFA. SFL Clubs had been put into a no-win situation and asked to vote on matters that it seems the SFA and the SPL were unwilling to deal with themselves. Not only this, but whilst they were quite content to pass the difficult decisions over to us, we felt we were being pushed into accepting limited restructuring elements in a ‘take it or leave it’ proposal that was expressly tied to admitting Rangers Newco into the 1stDivision. We felt this approach was wholly unreasonable and unsatisfactory.”

    I’ve never seen on any SPL clubs’ sites such a damning appraisal of the SFA/SPL (in)actions regarding Sevco/NewRangers. Correct me if I’m wrong.

    Regarding Peat, he was an SFA office bearer at the time of Airdrie’s demise, and was a useful and transient acquisition for the club, each using the other to their own ends. I don’t see how that makes Stenhousemuir ‘total Sevco’, according to Hoopy 7 and supported by quite a number of TU.

    I see the mods chiding CF for name calling: I’d put blackening the name of one of our wee clubs in a similar unacceptable category.


  58. I hear Nandos have the catering contract for the new bus so the players can relax going to a game just like they do training at Murray Park 🙂


  59. Reference the team bus, the owner of Bruce’s Coaches is a big RFC fan. Nothing unusual or sinister in that however the coach they used after they shafted Park’s had already been painted in the team colours (5 stars and all) in Dec 2011 and was being shown on various bus forums at that time. Not saying Bruce knew they were going under at that time but they certainly knew they were getting the contract at the expense of Park’s at that point.


  60. tomtom

    RFCCreditorOfTheDay ‏@RFCCreditors 9h
    “@briantduffy Rangers Creditor Of The Day No.193
    Parks of Hamilton
    Coach Hire
    £7,256.00
    Total debt to date: £26,815,156.64


  61. Caveat Emptor says:
    June 27, 2013 at 11:36 pm
    ecobhoy says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:03 pm
    1 1 Rate This

    Well for an anorak like myself ……………
    **********************************************
    Ecobhoy. Being an anorak is a small fault in a good man. Hope you don’t find a new hobby any time soon, like the swally, or, heaven forfend, chasin wimmin.
    Always enjoy your posts and your part in the ensuing debate. Is that not what we (you) are supposed to be engaged in? Keep it up!
    ========================================================

    Thank you – perhaps I should change my moniker to: Caveat Lector 🙂 If I have that wrong I apologise as it truly has been a long time since I chanted amo, amas, amat . . . . .

    However gawd and TSFM willing I intend to hang about for some time yet as I think this story has a long way to run with many byways to be explored.


  62. blu says:
    June 28, 2013 at 8:48 am
    —————————————-
    Cheers,i had assumed that the SFL not being considered a legal entity would’nt be able to open a bank account which they would need to pay an employees wages.It seems i was wrong.

    61. BANK ACCOUNT
    61.1 A bank account or bank accounts including any internet bank account shall
    be kept in the name of the League, and all cheques drawn thereon shall be
    signed by the Chief Executive and countersigned by the Financial Controller
    and the President or Vice-President being three signatures in all. All
    withdrawals or transfers from the internet bank account will be authorised
    in writing by the Chief Executive, the Financial Controller and either the
    President or Vice President.

    65. CHIEF EXECUTIVE
    65.1 The Board shall appoint a Chief Executive who shall be a paid official on
    such terms and conditions as they shall think fit.


  63. Exiled Celt says:
    June 28, 2013 at 5:05 am

    9

    0

    Rate This

    Some of the funny Twitter messages regarding the new world class bus….
    Achill Islam CSC ‏@Propa_Gander 5h
    AAAAAWLL ABOARD!! TICKETUS PLEASE
    Dass Butt ‏@Dass_Butt 5h
    @Propa_Gander @Pmacgiollabhain its a new bus with the history of the old bus, same seats, same engine, same colour of paint as the old bus.
    Peter Lawwell ‏@PeteLawwell 6h (Note spoof account – not the real PL!)
    Sevco have unveiled a bus for their 2nd Division journeys.
    This is what we will be using for a lot of our games: pic.twitter.com/553ztP2fqK
    THT ‏@TheHumanTorpedo 5h
    So Walter Smith becomes Rangers chairman and suddenly the club get a new bus to park. Coincidence?
    Etc etc………….

    ************
    Surely they will be having a sing song on their travels?

    “The back of the bus, they cannae sign….”

    I’ll get ma coat.


  64. Apologies in advance if this is a stupid point or irrelevent.

    According to this BBC website article regarding league reconstruction, TRFC have now been granted full membership and voting rights – is this correct?


  65. spanishcelt says:
    June 27, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    “He is the puppeteer and hes pulling CF strings on every release why else has he not threatened legal action, CF is about the only person in this whole fieasco he hasnt threatened to take to court!”
    ———————-
    spanish, that is certainly one of the conclusions that can be drawn but not the only one. What seems to be happening is that blog conversations are triggering her to investigate the material from different perspectives. Our narrative is being fed by her releases. To a large extent we control that narrative since the topics have been built up over a long period of time.

    Charlotte did claim CW had made legal moves against her. This is just hearsay however and if Charlotte is such a valuable information source then she needn’t reveal her identity to prove her provenance. Whatever the source of the material it does appear to be filling gaps in the blog thought process.


  66. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23094866

    These need closer scrutiny I believe from this article.

    “Neil Doncaster and David Longmuir are vying to become chief executive of the newly created Scottish Professional Football League.
    The pair, formerly head of the Scottish Premier League (SPL) and Scottish Football League (SFL) respectively, will be interviewed next week”

    I HOPE THERE ARE OTHER CANDIDATES BEING INTERVIEWED AS WELL. I WONDER IF MR HUTTON IS UP FOR IT.

    “Rangers chief executive Craig Mather said the “best bit of the day” was that his club now had full membership and voting rights, following its associate membership status with the SFL.

    “I’m very happy,” he said. “It’s been interesting but we’ve got there. We’ve always been active. We continue the road and will be humble.”

    SO RFC(IL) HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ACTIVE HAVE THEY? IN WHAT WAY? DEFINITELY NOT IN A TRANSPARENT WAY THATS FOR SURE.

    IF RFC(IL) DON’T UNDERSTAND DIGNITY, WHAT CHANCE HAVE THEY OF BEING HUMBLE?


  67. OT in a way from the blog – but this is a really good story that I think anyone with an interest in life and touching others by this beautiful game of ours – I would like to think this inspirational story can inspire us never to give up regaining control of our game from the Spivs and their lackeys – because it is a huge and wonderful world out there sometimes and more often united by the beautiful game invented and exported (ahem!) form Scotland

    Please read this and hopefully it shows what can be done out of terrible situations and events……

    http://www.eltnews.com/columns/patontheback/2013/06/reamonn_gormley_thai_tims.html


  68. “Rangers chief executive Craig Mather said the “best bit of the day” was that his club now had full membership and voting rights, following its associate membership status with the SFL.

    “I’m very happy,” he said. “It’s been interesting but we’ve got there. We’ve always been active. We continue the road and will be HUMBLE.”

    Sorry have to go and change my pants. Laughed so hard I pished myself.

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