Good Evening.
As we ponder the historic vote to create a new Governing body to oversee Scottish League football, I cannot help but wonder what brilliant minds will be employed in the drawing up of its constitution, rules, memorandum and articles of association?
Clearly, Messrs Doncaster, Longmuir and even Mr Regan as the CEO of the SFA will be spending many hours with those dreaded folk known simply as “ The Lawyers” in an attempt to get the whole thing up and running and written down in the course of a few short weeks.
In truth, that scares me.
It scares me because legal documentation written up in a hurry or in a rush is seldom perfect and often needs amendment—especially when the errors start to show! The old adage of beware of the busy fool sadly applies.
It also scares me because the existing rules under which the game is governed are not, in my humble opinion, particularly well written and seem to differ in certain material respects from those of UEFA. Even then, adopting the wording and the approach of other bodies is not necessarily the way to go.
I am all in favour of some original thought– and that most precious and unusual of commodities known as common sense and plain English.
Further, the various licensing and compliance rules are clearly in need of an overhaul as they have of late produced what can only be best described as a lack of clarity when studied for the purposes of interpretation. Either that or those doing the studying and interpreting are afflicted with what might be described as tortuous or even tortured legal and administrative minds.
If it is not by now clear that the notion of self-certification on financial and other essential disclosure criteria necessary to obtain a footballing licence (whether European or domestic) is a total non-starter — then those in charge of the game are truly bonkers.
Whilst no governing body can wholly control the actions of a member club, or those who run a club, surely provisions can be inserted into any constitution or set of rules that allows and brings about greater vigilance and scrutiny than we have at present—all of course designed to do nothing other than alert the authorities as early as possible if matters are not being conducted properly or fairly.
However, the main change that would make a difference to most of the folk involved in the Scottish game – namely the fans— would be to have the new rules incorporate a measure which allowed football fans themselves to be represented on any executive or committee.
Clearly, this would be a somewhat revolutionary step and would be fought against tooth and nail by some for no reason other than that it has simply not been done before—especially as the league body is there to regulate the affairs of a number of limited companies all of whom have shareholders to account to and the clubs themselves would presumably be the shareholders in the new SPFL Ltd.
Then again to my knowledge Neil Doncaster is not a shareholder in The SPL ltd– is he?
I can hear the argument that a fan representative on a league body might not be impartial, might be unprofessional, might be biased, might lack knowledge or experience, and have their own agenda and so on—just like many chairmen and chief executive officers who already sit on the committees of the existing league bodies.
Remember too that the SFA until relatively recently had disciplinary committees made up almost exclusively of referees. I don’t think anyone would argue that the widening of the make up of that committee has been a backward step.
However, we already have fan representation at clubs like St Mirren and Motherwell, and of course there has been an established Tartan Army body for some time now. Clubs other than the two mentioned above have mechanisms whereby they communicate and consult with fans, although they stop short of full fan participation– very often for supposedly insurmountable legal reasons.
As often as not, the fans want a say in the running of their club, but also want to be able to make representations to the governing bodies via their club.
So why not include the fans directly in the new set up for governing the league?
Any fan representative could be someone proposed by a properly registered fan body such as through official supporters clubs, or could be seconded by the clubs acting in concert with their supporters clubs.
Perhaps a committee of fan representatives could be created, with such a committee having a representative on the various committees of the new league body.
In this way, there would be a fan who could report back to the fan committee and who could represent the interests of the ordinary fan in the street in any of the committees. Equally such a committee of fans could ensure that any behind the scenes discussions on any issue were properly reported, openly discussed, and made public with no fear of hidden agendas, secret meetings, and secret collusive agreements and so forth.
Is any of that unreasonable? Surely many companies consider the views of their biggest customer? This idea is no different.
Surely such a situation would go some way towards establishing some badly needed trust between the governing bodies and the fans themselves?
If necessary, I would not even object to the fan representatives being excluded from having a right to vote on certain matters—as long as they had a full right of audience and a full right of access to all discussions and relative papers which affect the running of the game.
In this way at least there would be openness and transparency.
In short, it would be a move towards what is quaintly referred to as Democracy.
Perhaps, those who run the game at present should consider the life and times of the late great Alexander Hamilton- one of the founding fathers of the United States of America and who played a significant role in helping write the constitution of that country.
Hamilton was a decent and brilliant man in many ways—but he was dead set against Democracy and the liberation of rights for the masses. In fact, he stated that the best that can be hoped for the mass populace is that they be properly armed with a gun and so able to protect themselves against injustice!
Sadly, Hamilton became embroiled in a bitter dispute with the then Vice President of the nation Aaron Burr in July 1804. Hamilton had used his influence and ensured that Burr lost the election to become Governor of New York and had made some withering attacks on the Vice President’s character.
When he refused to apologise, the Vice President took a whacky notion and challenged him to a duel! Even more whacky is the fact that Hamilton accepted the challenge and so the contest took place at Weehawken New Jersey on the morning of 11th July 1804.
The night before, Hamilton wrote a letter which heavily suggested that he would contrive to miss Burr with his shot, and indeed when the pistols fired Hamilton’s bullet struck a branch immediately above Burr’s head.
However, he did not follow the proper procedure for duelling which required a warning from the duellist that they are going to throw their shot away. Hamilton gave no such indication despite the terms of his letter and despite his shot clearly missing his opponent.
Burr however fired and hit Hamilton in the lower abdomen with the result that the former secretary to the treasury and founding father of the constitution died at 2pm on the twelfth of July.
The incident ruined Burr’s career (whilst duelling was still technically legal in New jersey, it had already been outlawed in various other states).
In any event, in Hamilton’s time full and open democracy in the United States of America would have met with many cries of outrage and bitter opposition. Yet, today, the descendants of slaves and everyone from all social standings, all ethnic minorities and every social background has the constitutional right to vote and seek entry to corridors of power.
In that light, is it really asking too much to allow football fans to have a say and a presence in the running of a game they pay so much to support?
madbhoy24941 says:
July 3, 2013 at 11:59 am
well said ….just as well I took the time to read back ….as I also interpreted the “spin”.They really are so transparent when looked at through our new TSFM 8 dimensional media specs!
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” (Benjamin Franklin).
They seem incapable of moving forward …pathetic really.
Hello folks,
It’s been a slow week in internet bampot land and Ecobhoy’s still talking 🙂
So lets have a mid week round up of my current thoughts;
Season tickets sales are currently rumoured to be slow, but I fully expect them to hit 35,000+ and have a large photo op and celebration with the accompanying ‘Get it up ya, WATP’
Sevco are getting a free bus ride every two weeks and selling 99p peeks online, this has me chuckling a little.
In-depth interviews by Traynor, who also apparently tries to explain that when he wrote rfc were dead – he was wrong and he now thinks it’s still alive and kicking – Only, he wasn’t, it was the only thing he got right. (has anybody seen or have a transcript of this?)
The DR has seemingly now taken the position that it’s a new club, winding up some sevconians, I’m also hearing that they have a big story waiting to go but nobody is yet willing for it to go to print.
IPO cash now being described as low as £7-8M, I’ll wager it might be even lower at around £5-6M after all the players have been moved on.
Some figures are banded around of how much Sevco have saved by offloading players, with more players shown the way to the door and being asked to walk away.
Back room and admin staff being paid off, that’s not a good sign and it’s a 16 months too late.
Why all these digs at Sevco and the apparent lack of cash, well those that take an interest in the state of football governance in this country can see where this is heading. Sevco are planning to play next season, which means those that are in control of these things and should be checking this stuff are obviously happy that nothing is wrong.
That is the biggest problem, we can all see something different, this is a slow mo crisis that nobody seems to be willing to simply say “Stop”
And that is the whole point of their existence!
TSFM says:
July 3, 2013 at 3:47 pm
I don’t have the time to trawl through historic posts and count, but my recollection at the time was that most of the posts (from non Celtic fans) at the time raising the issue of refereeing seemed to think Celtic were getting decisions in their favour. If someone wants to go back and count them up and I’m wrong then fair enough I was wrong and I’ll say I’m sorry.
If that’s not enough, then I’m out. I can’t be bothered walking on eggshells about previous admin decisions.
Have to agree with most of the comments by Greenockjack and ptd1978. The site itself is neutral but when there is more comment on Rangers new mode of transport than the recent merging of the two league bodies a large number of posters on it struggle against the accusations of being anti-Rangers or Rangers obsessed.
Clearly neither of these posters needs me to defend them but the recent hounding of Ecobhoy was similar to the reaction that CE got when both were strong enough to defend their comments. It got personal, something neither of them resorted to when engaging in debate, responses to them were deleted and apologies were given to them. I have noticed a good few of the non-Celtic supporting posters have disappeared recently and I think that might have had a detrimental impact on TSFM recently.
Bawsman
NTHM
I’ve been crusading on this point 3 year membership for a few months now after writing to R Clyde to get the facts staright.
Only yesterday I gave AD Bryce who is a staunch advocate of the same club position my opinion as to why Art 12 existed and begorrah today NTHB confirms my thinking.
Art 12 is there to stop a club doing in a UEFA competition what the SFA were quite happy to try and force on Scottish football and that is why the folk responsible who should have followed the UEFA stance have to go. They simply do not understand what is good for Scottish football – honesty.
As regards keeping at it there is now one blog dedicated to getting the Art12 message across and I read another who had previously fell into the 3 years accounts trap changing his later blog to reflect Article 12.
STV Grant on Twitter has now realised what rules apply and why and I am delighted at seeing the report on the Romanian club.
This is yet another argument why UEFA FFP rules must be localised, internalised, policed and ENFORCED.
We are getting there. Perseverance pays.
On “The Old Firm”. I can’t think of any Celtic or Rangers fan who likes the phrase and a lot refuse to even use it. It’s one of the few things the support actually agree on, neither actually wants to be associated with the other in this way.
On the other hand I know plenty of fans of other clubs who use it and I can’t think of any who actively object to it.
Personally I see it as a useful (to them) media construct, which they use to re-inforce the argument that the clubs are two sides of the same coin. It is also convenient when they don’t wish to name names, they can refer to “Old firm fans guilty of …”.
On the blog.
It should have been a forum, then people who had no interest in a particular topic need not even open a thread on that topic. If anyone tried to hijack a thread for their own agenda then a mod could delete or move that comment and warn the person doing it (if it was a pattern of behaviour)
And also, if people think the “wron” things are being discussed then they could start a thread rlevant to the things they think should be discussed.
A forum would have allowed these things and solved a lot of the issues people have. The inclusion of an “ignore” function on a forum can help a lot.
Anyway, democracy and so forth, people voted for this format.
45. Auldheid says:
July 3, 2013 at 2:37 pm
22 0 i
Rate This
Aryouaccusingmeofmendacity
The reason for 3 year bar is lack of 3 years MEMBERSHIP of the SFA.
NOT lack of accounts.
————————————————————————————————–
Really? I mean really? I did not know that.*
* Actually, I did. I was being sarcastic in the original post. I’ll signpost it for you next time.
So, Longmuir’s the new heid honcho
Ecobhoy 1.52
Well if you remember I’ve suggested
1. A resolution for all supporter trusts to present to their clubs to give the SFA that caught SFA attention via Alex Thomson but
a) had SFA pointing at a SFA glossy called SFA 2020 Vision that was laughable in terms of the gap between the glossy part on being Trusted and Respected and reality.
b) was not taken up by any of the trusts to whom it was sent ( the CST might have but had no one available from tsfm to talk to the issue)
2.Suggested a boycott of SFA sponsors esp William Hill that again went nowhere.
3. Asked the FIFA whistle blower site to investigate the SFA but they asked for hard evidence.
So what else is there?
Well as result of debate on CQN one lad has pointed out that as the SFA have to listen to clubs and in the case of plc’s anyway shareholders have the right to express their disatisfaction via their clubs to the SFA on shareholders behalf.
In order to do that formally a resolution has to be tabled at the AGM backed by 100 signatories who each have £100 worth of shares.
The number who are willing to sign to an as yet to be finalised draft resolution is climbing to the 100 mark and comments on the original draft have been taken on board and it is still a work in process.
The problem is that it would be best if shareholders of other clubs would look at this route because Celtic shareholdees (just as an example) could say the decision to give Rangers a UEFA licence in 2011 when they had a clear overdue payable affected the value of their shareholding and they want to know if the SFA were right and if wrong what is being done to correct. (Kilmarnock btw are the other club who would have got a UEFA place had Rangers been refused)
But the shareholder route is one open to all clubs of a similar constitution in an attempt to get accountability from the SFA and is one supporter shareholders of other clubs might want to look at.
Areyouaccusingneofmenacity.
It won’t do any could on this one. My phaser is set to kill every time it see three years accounts 🙂
ptd1978 says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:58 pm
4 2 Rate This
I don’t have the time to trawl through historic posts and count, but my recollection at the time was that most of the posts (from non Celtic fans) at the time raising the issue of refereeing seemed to think Celtic were getting decisions in their favour …
————
@ptd1978
I remember it as refereeing decisions in general, and outlawed because it became such a subjective and contentious issue. A lot of it was initially aimed at the club that won Div 3, since there were some pretty shocking decisions at season’s start. But the subject morphed into ‘big club bias, fact or fiction’ at one point. I was happy it was stopped, not because I don’t believe in big club bias, but because it was too much of a Pie & Bovril debate.
Now everyone get over a give Andy Murray some positive vibes, he’s off colour today and in a dogfight!
Castogathousands 3.42
How they were able to get away with what they did in regard to the rules are the symptoms of the underlying causes.
Tackling the symptoms will halt decline, tacking the causes will priduce a healthy body.
Celtic Paranoia says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:29 pm
______________________
In your posts above on MSM ‘Old Firm’ bias you perhaps omitted the most despicable example.
The Daily Record headlines on bill-boards across the country read, “Old Firm player player accused of rape” We soon learned that this serious matter had absolutely nothing to do with Celtic or any of its employees. The individual in question was a goalkeeper for Rangers, yet the DR editor, knowing exactly who it was and what club he played for, chose involve an innocent party – who just happened to be Celtic F.C. The incident could have resulted in a criminal prosecution with lives and reputations destroyed, yet the DR could not resist the opportunity to make such a cheap and deplorable attack.
.
Don`t want RTC to become confused! – twopanda is not
Kung Fu Pandža
“In Split he got the nickname Kung Fu Pandža for his sometimes funny defensive interventions which bared a resemblance to Shaolin soccer moves.”
huh – that stv lot 😉
Tommy says:
July 3, 2013 at 5:25 pm
2 1 Rate This
So, Longmuir’s the new heid honcho
—————————————————–
Disappointing in many ways but I think its not unsurprising he got it. Or at least if all 42 clubs had a say its not unsurprising.
If it was a board decision purely then its a bit more interesting as some of the SPL clubs would presumably have gone against “their man” to give Longmuir the position.
thepinkpanther says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Question. When was the last time that Scottish football had a “strong Rangers” ,that actually spent their own money?
=================================================
In the 70’s when they won two trebles. Prior to that it was the early 60’s. Tells you something doesn’t it!
At has just tweeted a link to a report about Rupert Murdoch being secretly taped lambasting the police and saying some words of support to his journalists who might face jail sentences if found guilty.
But my interest is in the report’s reference to ‘Exaro’- an investigative agency.
I don’t think I’ve heard of them, but they sound like what is needed up here!
In the first of a new series of exclusive, in-depth and hard-hitting TV interviews, James Traynor speaks to Rangers Manager Ally McCoist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFtPE2_9V4
Its a beauty!
vforvernacular says:
July 3, 2013 at 6:27 pm
I believe there was a panel and the two candidates were interviewed.
Tommy says:
July 3, 2013 at 5:25 pm
So, Longmuir’s the new heid honcho
=======================================
Sevco get full voting rights then one of their supporters gets the gig. They won’t have much trouble ‘having their voice heard’ as they said recently.
Exiled Celt says:
July 3, 2013 at 6:53 pm
0 0 Rate This
In the first of a new series of exclusive, in-depth and hard-hitting TV interviews, James Traynor speaks to Rangers Manager Ally McCoist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFtPE2_9V4
Its a beauty!
***********************
Clicked on the link and noticed the run time of 26 mins. No chance!!
I’ll wait for the highlights.
Caveat – go to the last 10 mins where you find Traynor threatening journalists and admitting he made a mistake that the corpse is alive……the other lot is Ally pretending to know about football coaching and some comment that he bought 4 season tickets of his own………..
Watched Murray and felt proud to be Scottish – listening to that interview makes me need to take a shower!
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:20 pm
“I think UEFA will add the old clubs history rather than show 2 Derry City FC’s – and the reason is a simple one”
————————-
I am minded to agree but… That would mean a team may gain better seeding because its predecessor was successful. That would be against the spirit of the Fifa Fair Play initiative. If the predecessor club gained its ranking points by avoiding social taxes then it would compromise sporting integrity. I would like to agree with you since simplest logic is best. I think the old Derry City will be replaced with the new and only the ranking points for the new will appear.
Been kinda busy this week and not kept pace with the posts, but I sense a few individuals unhappy with the blog at the moment. For what it’s worth……IMO we are all football fans who have blind spots, hobby horses and strong opinions on refs, Celtic, Sevco, rangers and everything else, there will be disagreements, and occasionally posts willl be pulled……and the sun will go down tonight …..rise again tomorrow!
Compare this to other Internet offerings……it is by a country mile the most articulate, informed, courteous and respectful I have ever read. It may lose its way a little on a slow news week but we will all return to tolerant and respectful exchange when the news starts rolling again. Keep the faith, loads to come from this story.
While I’m on does anyone know if the 19th of July is the start of a process or the date of the decision of the 2nd tier tribunal?
ptd1978 says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:58 pm
“If that’s not enough, then I’m out. I can’t be bothered walking on eggshells about previous admin decisions.”
———————–
My vague recollection is that the discussion descended into a series of spats. If TSFM did call time then it was probably in recognition that such discussions were going nowhere. I was surprised at TSFM’s remark toward you but I’d rather leave a bit of benefit of the doubt on both sides and move on.
Traynor’s interview with McCoist. Nauseating. Traynor almost foaming at the mouth and McCoist looking like he’d just woken up from a 2 week bender.
Ally McCoist is a nasty piece of work who happily put people’s safety at risk to further his own ends.
Jim Traynor is a snide, condescending, arrogant, smug hack. Who has sold himself and any semblance of principles he had. No more than a media prostitute.
The one “interviewing” the other on Rangers TV is hardly going to be uplifting stuff.
Myohmy1 says:
July 3, 2013 at 8:10 pm
=========================
The standard has been set, and the MSM will be more than happy to sit on their idle backsides and lift direct quotes from these stage managed farces to fill column inches. It’s often said newspapers are dying a slow lingering death. They will speed it up somewhat unless they challenge this nonsense.
All I can say about that hard hitting interview is
Roll up roll up and bring your money with you Sevco are back in town .
Traynor’s pathetic story regards them still being the debt dodging old dead club was cringeworthy .
Poltergiest FC are a disruptive spirit that has manifested in a new entity and all I can say is stay away from the LIGHT .
Just like mushrooms keep the fans in the dark and keep feeding them s***te As for the new name for Ibrokes ,may I suggest THE SHIITAKE STADIUM
upthehoops says:
July 3, 2013 at 7:01 pm
11 1 i
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Tommy says:
July 3, 2013 at 5:25 pm
So, Longmuir’s the new heid honcho
=======================================
Sevco get full voting rights then one of their supporters gets the gig. They won’t have much trouble ‘having their voice heard’ as they said recently.
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I see he must have put his “bonus” to good use then. Did he take them (and Chick) out for a good night out?
incredibleadamspark says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:59 pm
————————————-
No you miss the point completely.
The discussion about the super-bus was not about the bus per se and how jealous all non RFC fans were having seen it (though jealous we certainly were – dare I say it a little green-eyed>), but discussion centered on the appalling misreporting of this non-sporting non-event in the sporting pages.
In particular, the Herald, supposedly one of our heavyweight newspapers, printed a puff piece about the “bus” – simply cutting and pasting from the RFC website, and ending with basically a two paragraph free advert for RFC season tickets, including phone number, opening times of ticket office deadline and website.
It was reporting of the lowest common denominator – simply stuff that one would never see in an Englsih newspaper about a Premiership club.
That is why it attracted attention on here where people are concerned at the standard and content of the MSM’s work and we will go on calling them to account. The standard has to be raised and only constructive criticism it seems is going to force the issue.
And we wonder why the Scotsman and Herald are fast following the Sun and Record down the tubes?
54 (readers) to 0
john clarke says:
July 3, 2013 at 6:45 pm
7
0
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Quantcast
At has just tweeted a link to a report about Rupert Murdoch being secretly taped lambasting the police and saying some words of support to his journalists who might face jail sentences if found guilty.
But my interest is in the report’s reference to ‘Exaro’- an investigative agency.
I don’t think I’ve heard of them, but they sound like what is needed up here!
==========================================================
JC
More interestingly CH4 lawyers have sanctioned (now) use of surreptitious tapes.
Who else do I know who indulges in this habit? HMMM
Here’s a wee interesting stat from Steelmenonline ta G. Bit of reality no?
Scotland population: 5,295,400
Germany population: 80,399,300. – 15.18 times the size.
Motherwell average attendance: 5118
Dortmund average attendance: 77,248 – 15.09 times the size. Oh.
ptd1978 says:
July 3, 2013 at 4:58 pm (Edit)
TSFM says:
July 3, 2013 at 3:47 pm
I don’t have the time to trawl through historic posts and count, but my recollection at the time was that most of the posts (from non Celtic fans) at the time raising the issue of refereeing seemed to think Celtic were getting decisions in their favour. If someone wants to go back and count them up and I’m wrong then fair enough I was wrong and I’ll say I’m sorry.
If that’s not enough, then I’m out. I can’t be bothered walking on eggshells about previous admin decisions.
____________________________________________________________________________
Funny you had enough time to deliberately mislead people about an imaginary bias on the part of the mods – which by your own admission you can’t be sure about or be bothered to find out.
Still awaiting a retraction.
Whilst Charlotte’s material is off limits, it appears that C4 know the definition of ‘public interest’!
http://www.channel4.com/news/murdoch-rupert-tape-police-the-sun-journalists
Caveat Emptor says:
July 3, 2013 at 7:07 pm
12 0 Rate This
Exiled Celt says:
July 3, 2013 at 6:53 pm
0 0 Rate This
In the first of a new series of exclusive, in-depth and hard-hitting TV interviews, James Traynor speaks to Rangers Manager Ally McCoist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFtPE2_9V4
Its a beauty!
***********************
Clicked on the link and noticed the run time of 26 mins. No chance!!
I’ll wait for the highlights.
_____________
last 2 mins gym trainer says he was wrong after talking to lawyers and insolvency experts
WAC
OMG- Excuse the text speak. I’m watching the world record breaking interview.
DRAMATIC LIGHTING- WOW.
2 mins: Ally has admitted he hadn’t a clue what was happening with his international defenders.
2.:10 Getting rid of two defenders frees up money “I would hope so” -hasn’t a clue in other words.
3:00 Ally hasn’t spent a penny apparently.
3:25 Ally says ” We’re a completely different club”
4:40 ” as a Rangers manager you’re never in a position to long term plan” True enough?
andy says:
July 3, 2013 at 9:28 pm
Is that the best they could come up with after all this time.
That really is pathetic.
Charlotte is back again ….
Not quite sure what to make of it yet, but Rod MacKenzie and Neil Doncaster are both involved. What a filthy business.
Folks, I’ve had to remove a post concerning Masonic conspiracy theories – which have apparently been “proved”.
Notwithstanding the merits or otherwise of that sentiment, I think we have established that this sort of thing is not for this blog. Please can we stay focused and stick to facts and reasoning?
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 22m
An awareness of intentions – perhaps!
Hopefully no contradictions between October 2011 and 14 Feb 2012.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/151580990/Phone-Calls …
From:
Gary Withey
Date: 6 October 2011 09:30Subject: FW: TodayTo: Craig Whyte He wasn’t asked to brief anyone on the call, but it seems as though there is a willingness to assist. Regards Gary Withey
Partner
T
(Direct) +44 (0)20 7468 7234
F
(Direct) +44 (0)20 7468 7334
From:
Rod Mckenzie [mailto:rod@harpermacleod.co.uk]
Sent:
06 October 2011 08:58
To:
Gary Withey
Cc:
neildoncaster@scotprem.com
Subject:
Re: TodayDear GaryI understand that everything is exploratory at this stage.I have briefed the Chief Executive on our call. He has indicated that if there is an appetite to pursuethis route that an outline paper is prepared setting out the process that is being proposed to achievethe discussed end. The paper should include, as well as the structure of the proposed transactions,how it is proposed that the points we discussed on compliance with SPL Membership Criteria, groundregistration and player registration both with the SFA and SPL, would be addressed.Look forward to hearing from you.
From
: Gary Withey [mailto:gary.withey@collyerbristow.com]
Sent
: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 06:53 PM
To
: Rod Mckenzie
Subject
: TodayRod,once again thank you for your time today; much appreciated. As discussed there are no firm plans for the club but the directors have a duty to explore allavenues. Once they come to a conclusion I will of course be in conduct.RegardsGary Withey
Partner
slimshady61 says:
July 3, 2013 at 8:41 pm
_________________________________________________________________________________
You’ll get no disagreement from me regarding the media, which is pretty much always a disgrace. However I disagree that the postings about the bus were a comment on the state of the media. I think you’re being a bit generous there and even if I were to agree with you my point still stands about the lack of comment on things that do not concern Rangers.
The one thing everyone on here is in almost total agreement on is just how bad the media in this country is. We demand reporting of the facts and that journalists do their jobs properly but on this site there is more comment about alleged asbestos risks at Ibrox or Ally McCoists weight and general appearance than there has been about the recent issues in Scottish football. That’s as piss poor as some of the rubbish in the newspapers we criticize.
Longmuir in donkey gone. One more witness removed.
Published : Tuesday, February 14, 2012 news image 1
The Rangers Football Club PLC in Administration
Following Rangers FC entering administration today, the SPL confirmed that a number of sporting sanctions have been applied to the club.
An Scottish Premier League spokesperson said: “As Rangers FC is subject to an Insolvency Event, a 10-point deduction has been applied to its total points in the League Championship for the current Season. In addition, Rangers FC is subject to restrictions on the registration of Players with the SPL whilst in administration.
“We are seeking an early meeting with the Administrators.”
Notes
The SPL Rules in relation to insolvency (SPL Rule A6.8 to A6.20), which include an automatic 10 point deduction in the event of administration, were adopted by the clubs at a General Meeting in January 2004.
Was something else planned?
ianagain says:
July 3, 2013 at 10:07 pm
————————
Yeah but the wrong one gone, at least he was upfront about his role, Longmuir not, makes claims about representing him members when he was actively working against them. Not a good decision!
Maybes aye maybes naw
——————————————–
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 16m
It appears to me that this revised deal was part of the plan to keep RFC within the SPL. Focus on 4 games.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/21/spl-tv-deal-sky-espn …
#Rumbled
Auldheid says:
July 3, 2013 at 5:32 pm
“was not taken up by any of the trusts to whom it was sent ( the CST might have but had no one available from tsfm to talk to the issue)”
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Admirable efforts Auldheid and I’d imagine at times you feel as if you’re poshing against the wind. I do get a sense you’ve got the bit between your teeth currently. I think the supporters trust angle is the right approach and am disappointed that your suggestion has not been widely taken up. Keep at it though.
You may find that in due course your phaser becomes less and less necessary.
TSFM
Based on Danish’s contribution, I’m willing to accept that my recollection is for the most part wrong and so I retract it and I apologise if I caused offense.
(Thanks for your post DP)
I’m going to take a couple of weeks to decide whether it’s worth continuing contributing here. My opinions on the whether the site always achieves neutrality on the site haven’t changed, but neither has the fact that this site remains the best hope of fan oriented reform in the game.
I’m alarmed that you chose to move straight past any other option and accuse me of lying. If I was wrong, it was an error, not a deliberate attempt to mislead and I find it disappointing that you chose to assume I was being malicious. While I have been critical of some of your decisions and the decisions of others, I have never questioned your honest intentions, nor have I suggested you have ever acted in anything other than good faith. Indeed I have mentioned more than once what a difficult and thankless job you do and that by and large you do it very well.
That said, you just called me a liar and asked me to retract what to my mind was an honest (if wrong) attempt to add something to a debate. The retraction is fine, but the questioning of my integrity I’ve got a problem with.
I hope this site continues to grow and begins to have real influence on the decision making bodies in Scottish football. I may or may not say hi in a couple of weeks.
Good evening.
What happens to “The Rangers” if there is substance in what Whyte alleges and the “owners” are found not in fact to own anything but have been guilty of a fraud and all money raised in the IPO was raised unlawfully and spent unwisely.
How much do they have left and is it possible they have other sources od back door funding.
Have they replied to the letter before claim?
alex thomson @alextomo 1m
Neil Doncaster is new boss of even newer SPFL
incredibleadamspark says:
July 3, 2013 at 10:06 pm
“…my point still stands about the lack of comment on things that do not concern Rangers.”
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Fill your boots Adam. The keyboard is your oyster.
I listened to last 2 mins of Ally and JT. Felt like puking.
There has been a lot of posts about newco oldco and history etc….
Having heard JT squirming concerning his piece in DR last year about history and RFC death. To this staged rehearsed drivel WE all must remind them they are a new club liquidation has had the same meaning since the oxford dictionary began and it applies to all EVEN the established club in Govan.
Back to the tape and the familiar veiled threats “we are still being kicked but day of reckoning will come”
JT had to stop as he was getting really angry. What an embarrassment and really how low can they go.
No dignity even in death.
All over Twitter that Doncaster has been appointed.
Herald reports that Doncaster NOT Longmuir got the SPFL gig.
What are the odds on Longmuir to RFC as CEO?
Not sure where the earlier tweets and comments came from re Longmuir getting the CEO job.
He didn’t. Not surprisingly, he’s viewed as damaged goods after his attempts to scupper league reconstruction and fast track his beloved RFC into SPL 2
Good luck Doncaster, you’ll need it. “without fear or favour” you said last year, remember those words, act on them and you won’t go far wrong.
ianagain says:
July 3, 2013 at 10:06 pm
“http://www.scribd.com/doc/151580990/Phone-Calls”
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So Doncaster coached RFC(IL) concerning a possible application to the SPL post Administration. What a helpful guy. I’m not sure he will have been as forthcoming when quizzed by the likes of Auldheid.
The question was raised earlier as to whether this was not really just a Celtic forum. I tried to equate this with a possible anti-Rangers sentiment. Now here we see communications that imply that prior to Administration Rangers were sounding out the authorities concerning re-entry to the SPL. It is already widely assumed that Rangers Uefa Licence for season 2010/11 was granted in contravention of the regulations. Now we see that further contraventions of SPL regulations were likely anticipated and accounted for in advance.
Where does the word ‘fairness’ fit into all this. Where is the lack of bias that we should all be striving for. I’ve yet to see it in this particular saga. If you want my unbiased opinion, this sort of behaviour is scandalous. It makes a mockery of Scottish football. The people that have allowed this to happen have heartily earned our disdain.
There is a time for fairness. That time is when the magnitude of contraventions have been exposed and those culpable have been shown for what they are. Then that will be a time for forgiveness and remorse. However even if I were Dr. Who with a Tardis, that time is never going to arrive. No-one will front up. No apologies will be heard. No remorseful tone will be ushered forth on a guilty breath.
Unbiased. You don’t know the meaning of the word.
Off topic but whatever happened to my fellow don and previously frequent contributer angus1983?
ptd1978 says: July 3, 2013 at 10:56 pm
…
I’m going to take a couple of weeks to decide whether it’s worth continuing contributing here…
=================================
Likewise,
I’m going to take a couple of weeks to decide whether it’s worth continuing reading your contributions here. (I do apologise to all other posters but couldn’t let it go… :roll:)
Bill1903 says:
July 3, 2013 at 11:53 pm
Off topic but whatever happened to my fellow don and previously frequent contributer angus1983?
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I do hope that Angus is merely taking a breather. I for one value his contributions and wit.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/151580990/Phone-Calls …
more like “black rod” banging on doors etc etc etc ……and forgetting to ask why the dog did not bark ….move on there …nothing to see
Tommy says:
July 4, 2013 at 12:04 am
Bill1903 says:
July 3, 2013 at 11:53 pm
Off topic but whatever happened to my fellow don and previously frequent contributer angus1983?
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I do hope that Angus is merely taking a breather. I for one value his contributions and wit.
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As do I.
Hopefully he has transferred over – even I managed it – probably compiling a comprehensive list of quotes from RM.
🙂
Ianagain at 10.06pm:
SFA lawyer Rod McKenzie: “The paper should include, as well as the structure of the proposed transactions,how it is proposed that the points we discussed on compliance with SPL Membership Criteria, groundregistration and player registration both with the SFA and SPL, would be addressed.”
_________________________________
That, to me, suggests that the SFA knew all about Whyte’s NewCo plan in October 2011 (four months before RFC PLC RIP even went into administration) and they were trying to fine-tune the arrangements for FC Spivco to be kept in the SPL at all costs.
Thefix was in from a long way out.
What a shame that these shameless cheats didn’t get their way, eh?
Does this also explain Rod McKenzie’s lack of questioning Bryson’s testimony at the Nimmo Inquiry
The interview with McCoist was quite sad in my view – nothing has been learned. He has no budget he is working to – hence he did not know that Bocanegra/Goian would not return and how much money was being saved by their payoff – if he had a budget, he would have a good idea how all this would fit in. He claims all the new folks have not cost a penny – again, this is a very strong indication he has no budget constraints.
His comments about part timers and full timers – the difference being minimal – may be more telling on the full timers rather than a compliment to the part timers. If a joiner can keep himself as fit as someone with 24 x 7 access to Murray Park (note not Cooper or Moses Park yet!) and all its facilities, then this means Murray park is a waste. Bringing Celtic into the argument for their matches versus Arbroath may backfire should the Red Lichties win this season against them. As for the “every week is a cup final” – these players normally play in front of 1,000 fans at most – normally less – so where was the intimidation factor of the 50K massed crowd – or is that not factored into this since it won’t suit the story?
As for the fitness – actually thought Jimbo did well to point out the nonsense Ally was spouting about the lack of fitness – again – if QP were fitter than them, then that shows no one is using Murray Park to its advantage – so why pay for it?
Comments about style of play – chief complaint was that he had 2 forwards – and always substituted 1 for 1 – meaning Kyle would come on for Sandaza etc. Lumping balls into the air is always not going to work against big centre halves who may be a bit slow to turn – therefore why not play the ball on the ground at Ibrokes on a huge, grassy pitch?
As for the kicking while down stuff, I thought that part was actually worth Lunny taking notes. Seems they also want to point at RFC men who talk the team down – without naming names of course. As for Jimbo’s Damascus moment of talking to corporate lawyers etc – that did not seem to convince him or Ally much either……..
As for the camera work and closes up of Ally’s gray stubble – was this a part time or full time media camera man – oh sorry I forgot – there is a minimal difference! Suggest we get Jack back since this one and the Xmas baubles on with CG were so appalling, that the current PR film crew guys must be using their mobiles to film the interview.
Now before I am castigated for concentrating on Ally/Jimbo to the detriment of the rest of Scottish football – can someone tell me where the Longmuir rumour originated from? Saw it being posted- but never saw any links.
Final word and a simple request for Ally/Jimbo – please review interviews done by Gary Locke and Jim Jeffries in the past few months – these will show folks who not only have some understanding being shown for the situation they are in, some awareness of the situation but also some dignity and some humility.
I did not hear Jim Jeffries state that in 2 years they will be back in SPL or Gary Locke state that maroon ribbons would fly on the Scottish Cup shortly again………
It’s called living in a real world and not a make believe one – one that does not include a hover stadium, if you like.
nickmcguinness says:
July 4, 2013 at 1:31 am
anagain at 10.06pm:
SFA lawyer Rod McKenzie: “The paper should include, as well as the structure of the proposed transactions,how it is proposed that the points we discussed on compliance with SPL Membership Criteria, groundregistration and player registration both with the SFA and SPL, would be addressed.”
_________________________________
That, to me, suggests that the SFA knew all about Whyte’s NewCo plan in October 2011 (four months before RFC PLC RIP even went into administration) and they were trying to fine-tune the arrangements for FC Spivco to be kept in the SPL at all costs.
Thefix was in from a long way out.
What a shame that these shameless cheats didn’t get their way, eh?
*******************
It has already been disclosed by CW that he told ND and SR the situation in Oct – they were well aware of the running a club while insolvent scenario. This is just confirming what he said – let’s hope there are tapes…….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19923446
Craig Whyte has claimed that the SPL knew Rangers were going bust months before the club entered administration.
The former Rangers owner said the club “had no money” after being knocked out of European competition by August 2011.
Whyte said he told SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and former chairman Ralph Topping in October 2011 that “administration was almost inevitable”.
Exiled Celt re the A Mc interview
I too was struck by Mcoist’s seeming lack of knowing his football budget .
What if
The spivs are getting ready to cash in and get out
The only interest they have is in getting as much ST money in and selling up
They know what to do to maximise ST income and they are happy to let Ally have any players he wants
to convince the support ,all is well
They know they will not be there when the money needs to be found to fund these signings
A Mc sounded as if he is out the loop regarding the financial plans at the new club which given the status he has been given since “not walking away ” is very strange indeed ,in fact I would say that either A Mc is lying or there is another insolvency round the corner .
incredibleadamspark says:
July 3, 2013 at 10:06 pm
“…my point still stands about the lack of comment on things that do not concern Rangers.”
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First of all the floor is yours, as others have said.
Are you really surprised though, given everything Rangers did, the amount of people they shafted for millions , the fact they were liquidated yet still arrogantly claim to be the same club (only for the good bits). I reckon if any other club was in the same position there might be a lot of talk about that club as well. Also, if you look at the point of the forum which is ‘asking the questions the media won’t ask’ – perhaps if the media were willing to actually speak honestly without fear or favour about even some of what has gone on there would be no need for forums like this.
jonnyod says:
July 4, 2013 at 6:55 am
Exiled Celt re the A Mc interview
I too was struck by Mcoist’s seeming lack of knowing his football budget .
What if
The spivs are getting ready to cash in and get out
The only interest they have is in getting as much ST money in and selling up
They know what to do to maximise ST income and they are happy to let Ally have any players he wants
to convince the support ,all is well
They know they will not be there when the money needs to be found to fund these signings
A Mc sounded as if he is out the loop regarding the financial plans at the new club which given the status he has been given since “not walking away ” is very strange indeed ,in fact I would say that either A Mc is lying or there is another insolvency round the corner .
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Thinking the same lines – all these players have not cost a penny TO DATE – Ally is correct on that – but come Sept, they will add substantially to the payroll. Now what is to stop TRFC signing on players to come onboard in Sept as a way to get the money in – what guarantees do these players have that they will be signed on in Sept – is there a get out clause for either party? That would be an interesting question to be asked by MSM to the players – instead of the usual inane question of “apart from the money, why did you come here……” Even Ally struggles to answer that one haha!
upthehoops says:
July 4, 2013 at 7:16 am
ncredibleadamspark says:
July 3, 2013 at 10:06 pm
“…my point still stands about the lack of comment on things that do not concern Rangers.”
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First of all the floor is yours, as others have said.
Are you really surprised though, given everything Rangers did, the amount of people they shafted for millions , the fact they were liquidated yet still arrogantly claim to be the same club (only for the good bits). I reckon if any other club was in the same position there might be a lot of talk about that club as well. Also, if you look at the point of the forum which is ‘asking the questions the media won’t ask’ – perhaps if the media were willing to actually speak honestly without fear or favour about even some of what has gone on there would be no need for forums like this.
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As far as I am aware both Pars and Jambos were still paying taxes as they were struggling – both have been damaged by a so called benefactor – (Gav and Vlad) – who have been more creative that CW ever could have dreamt of. RFC-NIL however (ignoring the BTC – other than 5 items they admitted to (hence not a “not guilty” verdict) shafted the people of Scotland of millions of taxes that could have built schools/hospitals/roads/armour for soldiers in Iraq – for what purpose? To try to maintain their “rightful” position at the top of the tree. As I said above – both Pars and Jambos know the battle is ahead to keep themselves alive, cut their cloth accordingly but my prediction is both will come back as smaller community clubs. TRFC is coming back as a Rottweiler – days of reckoning and all that. Hence the lack of sympathy!
I see Richard Wilson in today’s Herald has decided to lift much of McCoist’s pathetic interview with Traynor on the RFC website straight into the paper. I bet he paid his 99p to listen to it as well. If this is the way newspapers want to report why don’t they just employ a computer literate teenager on the minimum wage to cut and paste directly into the paper. Or do they just want to report that way on the club from Ibrox?
Exiled Celt
I seem to remember a certain CW dishing out 5 and 6 year contracts with enhanced terms to 4 or 5 old club players and look how that panned out .
Are we witnessing the new spivs follow following a tried and tested strategy to hoodwink the gullible
Don’t all laugh at the opening line
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/rangers/id/5504?cc=5739