The Vice Closes

Avatar ByBig Pink

The Vice Closes

News in The Times of Celtic’s letter to Stewart Regan regarding that club’s wish for a Judicial Review into the SFA’s handing of the Rangers EBT crisis increases the pressure on Regan considerably.

The SFA Chief Executive’s ill-advised spat with Pie and Bovril editor David McDonald this week may even be a sign he is devolving, and at least it demonstrates that, despite Twitter disaster after Twitter disaster, Regan doesn’t learn readily from his mistakes.

Also, it appears from the contents of Celtic’s letter that their target in terms of a Judicial Review has been the SFA, and not the SPFL, all along. That chimes with developments as I understand them elsewhere in this process.

Even though it now appears that Celtic and a fan group are seeking a Judicial Review it is by no means certain that it will ever happen.

Having a sound legal basis for it, obtaining standing, and having a reasonable chance of victory are all variables in the equation, and each has to be weighed carefully before progress can be made.

Having said that, if the reason any Judicial Review fails is because of that lawyer-speak we have been subjected to of late, the SFA may yet come to believe that hiding behind legalese is neither in football’s best interests, nor in the interests of the individuals at the SFA who are under fire.

The bottom line as they, is this;

Rangers did acquire an unfair advantage over others by their use of EBTs. The SPL themselves were flabbergasted when Sandy Bryson proclaimed his eponymous ‘imperfectly registered’ doctrine. They all know – everyone in every board room in the country, in every SFA department, in every SPFL office – that cheating took place.

In fact and in spirit.

The jaws of the vice are tightening as we speak. The fans group who are building a case for a Judicial Review give its handle a wee turn every day, and the leak of the Celtic letter to Regan reduces his wiggle room even further.

It is surely now just a matter of time before this ridiculous and infamous chapter in Scotland’s football history is dealt with.

Of course people will accuse anyone who is a Celtic fan, or an Aberdeen fan, or a Dundee United fan (clubs whose rivalry with Rangers is keenest) of partisanship in this affair. That is mere deflection and bears no scrutiny whatsoever.

As a Celtic fan myself, I can’t deny that I am angry at what took place between (at least) 2000 and 2009, but does that mean that as a Celtic fan I have to recuse myself from having an opinion?

And as a former employee of the club, am I excluded from any conversation about the integrity of our game because the club at the centre of the scandal is Rangers? Pull the other one.

SFM, and the wider fans’ movement has been consistently appalled by this sorry chapter over the last six years, but is no kangaroo court. We are not asking for conclusions to be drawn without due process. We see unexplained regulatory anomalies in the processes at Ibrox and Hampden which have never to our knowledge been addressed. We simply wish that they should be.

Further, if my club was at the heart of this nonsense, I think I’d be incandescent with rage that they had allowed me to revel in the joy of winning all those trophies, only to have the achievements cheapened and nullified by their mismanagement. I would regard that as the ultimate betrayal (and Celtic fans can give you a list of club betrayals as long as Mao’s march).

I’d be thinking that those same business practices that apparently had given us so much, had actually caused to fail catastrophically. Having taken delight in the honours, I would have to accept the consequences too.

The SFA, by their corrupt approach to the demise of Rangers, have denied Rangers fans the catharsis that they could benefit from. In fact the authorities’ refusal to deal with the situation in terms of their own rules it has fostered a siege mentality to exist at Ibrox.

This in turn has enabled a series of charlatans, including the current board, to drive the bus in the direction of a brick wall for the last five years.

After the phenomenally successful share issue (something that can’t happen again whilst King is in charge for regulatory reasons), the new Rangers were given seed capital which should have flowered by now with the regular watering of their huge fan base. That £22m, which should have seen the club competing at the top by now has gone, and the potential which existed in 2012 has been diminished severely.

It’s no fun being a fan of Scottish football in the midst of this. But we make a fundamental error if we think that Rangers fans are enjoying it. They are victims in this too, and they have been defrauded by the Murray-era shenanigans, and the circus performers who have been on the scene since then – every bit as much as the rest of us.

The honourable thing (no laughing at the back) for the SFA to do would be to agree to Celtic’s request for a Judicial Review.

If the pressure is turned up another notch or three on the SFA, then maybe we will all get closure, and perhaps finally we can move on.

About the author

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Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

875 Comments so far

Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on8:35 pm - Sep 11, 2017


Back to football for a moment. In the past a european club playing celtic have been offered the opportunity to train at no longer called murray park, and charles Green was very good at getting some publicity for an ibrox club and some money for this adventure, so far no big pictures of PSG stars signing autographs of fans with trfc scarfs
is it an opportunity missed

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gunnerbPosted on9:01 pm - Sep 11, 2017


HOMUNCULUSSEPTEMBER 11, 2017 at 20:32

So you think that the Celtic support should stop supporting their team at away games.
Bully other clubs and their support into doing what Celtic want and proclaim support for something they don’t want.
Not for me.

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Nor I Homunculus,  a judicial review with support from all fans of honest football is the way to go and we should not be alienating any of the fan base who may be blameless when it comes to what their board say. See Aberdeen/Milne for a prime example.

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oddjob

oddjobPosted on9:34 pm - Sep 11, 2017


As I Understand it, Mr Regan states advice given by senior QCs and 3 Law Lords ( unnamed) suggests that there is no case to answer regarding the ebt Registration of numerous players.
I do not call into question that advice. However I must ask, how complete was the information  provided to these eminent persons to allow them to arrive at their “judgement”?
To accept that statement without question is not an acceptable option.
QCs are paid for, and consider what is put before them by their client.
Personally, I have given evidence in courts in England, Scotland  Northern Ireland and the United States.
In some cases my evidence was accepted as read.
In others I entered the witness box very confident that my evidence was ” slam dunk”, to coin a phrase, only to face a few disconcerting questions in cross examination, based on defence information .
There were a few occasions where I encountered a QC acting for the defence, as opposed to being my “learned friend” in previous cases.
I suggest therefore, that the whole truth may only become apparent when QCs of all sides debate all the evidence, and that may well be in a court of law.I’m
 “

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on9:37 pm - Sep 11, 2017


The next few days in scottish football history will be very interesting indeed

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M8DreamerPosted on9:43 pm - Sep 11, 2017


As a follower of RTC and The Scottish Football Monitor since the demise of Oldco Rangers in 2011/2012 and as a Hibs supporter since 1962, I am incandescent with rage at the decision of the Hibs Board not to insist on an independent enquiry being carried out into the running of Scottish Football.
An independent enquiry should be the absolute minimum investigation carried out with respect to the shameful cover up by the Scottish Football Authorities into this sordid football scandal.
We are now being told by the SFA that all football supporters are to just sit back and accept that Oldco Rangers cheated with EBT’s to win League Titles and League/Scottish Cups in conjunction with the Scottish Football Authorities turning a blind eye to it all.
Absolute bullocks. Most people are brought up to know the difference between good and bad, but we have Scottish Football Authorities that could not give a **** between right and wrong and will allow one member club to do what it likes with impunity.
While the minimum punishment to Oldco Rangers for the illegal use of EBT’s and the resultant non registration of players should be “declared null and void – due to cheating”, I fully understand that other supporters want the titles reallocated in this instance.
Every Scottish Football supporter with the exception of those supporting Oldco Rangers/TRFC have been completely sold down the river by Scottish Football Authorities who could not care about Sporting Integrity.
Ignoring the SMSM who have been completely implicit in spreading the lies, deceit and cover up by the Scottish Football Authorities, every person involved in this sordid affair should be removed from their current position in Scottish Football.
It is absolutely imperative that we can find a way to ” rake over the coals ” to determine the whole truth into the most shameful event in Scottish Football history.
Until Sporting Integrity has been returned to Scottish Football, we cannot move on.
As for my clubs position – ” Not in my Name”

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watcherPosted on9:48 pm - Sep 11, 2017


Shame on the Hibernian board. I am not a Celtic supporter but tonight I hope that they can provide a lone voice for all the good law abiding fans. I try to do what I can but supporting a diddy club is not easy at times. I have never felt so dissatisfied with football as I feel tonight. Cheats cannot win. I really hope Celtic get a result against PSG, je suis Celtic.

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Eternal OptimistPosted on9:51 pm - Sep 11, 2017


I’ve written to Thistle telling them I’m finished, and won’t be back until a truly independent review is agreed / set-up.   I’ve not had a reply (yet), but that’s not important – key thing is they know how strongly I feel about the issue.   Hopefully many others will do likewise, as that’s the only way we’ll get past this ‘it’s a Celtic-Rangers issue’.
It’s been said before, but I urge anyone who hasn’t contacted their club to do so now.

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jimboPosted on9:58 pm - Sep 11, 2017


Watcher, you know what I think?  Celtic will beat PSG tomorrow night.  They don’t know what lies ahead of them.  Our last 2/3rds are formiddible .  We Will score.  DG.

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shug

shugPosted on10:00 pm - Sep 11, 2017


I have to apologise to all the fans of other clubs on this board for the disgraceful statement that my club has issued this in no way expresses my own views on this issue,it would appear that my club has it’s own skeletons which it doesn’t want brought out of the closet. They can now burn in hell for all I care I am disgusted ashamed and angry.

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pau1mart1nPosted on10:25 pm - Sep 11, 2017


Say ‘learnings’ again, I dare you, I double dare you mother****er, say learnings one more Goddamn time

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watcherPosted on10:40 pm - Sep 11, 2017


Jimbo, I hope you do win, good luck to you and your team. I do not post often but as you may guess I do look in often. I enjoy the site and I enjoy your posts. 04

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bigboab1916Posted on11:20 pm - Sep 11, 2017


Did anyone expect Petrie to  back this he is part of the SFA and has to back Regan too many deals have been done if he comes out against its tounge wagging time, this is a game to stay in a role that pays handsomely for very little return, he is not spineless he is just complicit, up to his neck in it which is why he is chasing the job a man not to be trusted.
This is not the end of something that has now been exposed to the wider public all this is doing is making sure the choir is signing from the same sheet it’s a closing of ranks, this is a tactic they use on whistle-blowers they shun them by grouping and isolating in the hope the whistle blower loses it and gives in.
UEFA will now be alerted to this as it involves one of their organisations and will be keen to see an outcome outwith the political or courts of law. I expect bigger ramifications from this now it is clear the main players who invested heavily have seen the genie out of the bottle, today was about tactics and manoeuvres and getting into position.
The investigation into the licence granting is the one Regan has given the go ahead to and is the one he is claiming only became known after the White trial. Bullshit and PL knows this and this is why the go ahead was given, because it is the one that involves UEFA and has more repercussions for Regan and Dickson and others.
The title stripping is of no importance as no-one is getting them it is merely an acknowledgement that a chapter in the history of Rangers contained a period of cheating and they paid the ultimate price of been liquidated. No punishment to the new club as the sins of old is not anything to do with them, never was the clue is in the pudding provided by UEFA and its respons to the Res 12 guys, they are merely the last chance saloon to fool the punters into parting with their readies.
The shareholders of Celtic and stakeholders are looking for recourse as to why they were cheated out of their preference and bonus money by been denied a role in Europe. Players would also be denied bonuses that can be earned in European competitions.
UEFA I believe will state what they have stated previously in that no punishment can brought on the club for the licence as they are liquidated and are no longer available, however, the association will be punished for allowing the fact they knew of this and allowed it to go through to the detriment of others and stakeholders in the game. Game on sit tight this is the beginning of interesting times to come.
In other news our centre half and captain sign new contracts things looking rosy under BR and the leadership of the board to keep players we want to keep. I will enjoy  the football and watch the squirming commence with great interest.
 

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Big PinkPosted on12:03 am - Sep 12, 2017


Celtic, without public support from other clubs, are probably powerless to do much more on this. Unless that support arrives, the cheats will win unless the fans group can successfully challenge the SFA on a review. 

The timing of both Milne & Petrie’s statements was co-ordinated, and it is hard to see who will publicly align themselves with Celtic. 

Perhaps once again the fans will come through.

“It’s the fans wot won it!” Has a ring ?

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ZilchPosted on12:09 am - Sep 12, 2017


BP

Then we have to look to JR, UEFA and CAS – explore every avenue open to us to get justice done and to expose all of the layers of corruption wherever they may be.

The boardrooms of Hibs and Aberdeen are now firmly in sight as potential targets. Why else take this stance?

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bigboab1916Posted on12:25 am - Sep 12, 2017


King had previously said: “I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage. I believe that we should apologise for that. “No one on the board, when I was there, would have had any intention of gaining an advantage. But the fact is that I can understand the perception out there now. It is absolutely appropriate for the previous regime to be sorry.”
So when DM stated he had players he could not afford and big Eck we could not compete with Celtics wages, confirms Celtic were the leading club and they had the upper hand finacially the only way to attract players to compete was to up the wages, thus gain an advantage, their is nothing wrong in sporting advantage it is how you achieve it that is key.
Game set and match,regardless of the outcomes the truth will always be the truth just ask the old Rangers directors and former manager. When you can lay your head down at night and not have the distraction of looking over your shoulder and when you rise are able to face your self in the mirror, you will only then truly know what you have achieved in life and you should walk tall and proud, let the teams who back the cheating forever be in the shadow of the monster they have created and let them reap what they have sown.
Hail Hail,
Celtic a team open to all and a proud tradition.

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oddjob

oddjobPosted on12:36 am - Sep 12, 2017


Big Pink, Zilch.
In my very first post, some 5 years ago, I said that the EBT recipients were in a catch 22 situation. You may be able to access that post, I do not have that facility.
Now that the Supreme Court has decided in favour of HMRC, that agency may now, and probably is, pursuing outstanding tax due from named beneficiaries.
That will be ongoing.
We should not forget, that the final BDO Report is still forthcoming, and there is an ongoing case V Duff and Phelps 

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East End HammerPosted on6:53 am - Sep 12, 2017


Am amazed at the amount of information on this Site,Have been a lurker since TSFM started,find it sad that so much has been collated yet not much has changed,Is their still a chance of a private action against the rulings of the SFA or get a judicial review. Perhaps another Advert with some of the findings that have come out after the BTC might stir things up abit , Theirs too much corruption in football which is a shame ,I can understand it in the Premier League as their is so much money involved,but Scottish football deserves better from its supposed leaders and press come to that.  I care and im not even Scottish ,Anyway keep on the good fight ,Truth will out in the end.

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upthehoopsPosted on6:57 am - Sep 12, 2017


Does anyone know whether an application to seek permission to hold a Judicial Review would be posted on the Court of Session rolls of Court? Also, is it simply a case of making a written submission backed by evidence or would lawyers need to stand in court and convince a Judge just to allow permission to hold one?

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FinlochPosted on8:04 am - Sep 12, 2017


Messrs Regan, Doncaster, Petrie, Milne, Ogilvie, Mackenzie, Dickson, English, Jackson, EBT holders et al…..

This will not go away.

Stuff was done.
Too many people know.
And while many fans simply want to watch football there are enough who don’t think there is room enough under the Hampden carpet for this one. 

Coordinated PR campaigns like the last few days and coordinated intimidation of your members will not achieve the Red Adair “Capping of the well” that you seek.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on8:07 am - Sep 12, 2017


I think it’s worth remembering, when we read or hear Stewart Regan and others of the SFA make statements excusing themselves from taking meaningful action over the Rangers Scandal, that it has taken them five years, and more, to come up with the words they think are good enough for us to accept. That’s five years of consultations with ‘top’ solicitors and QCs, at ultimately our/our clubs’ expense!

And still they don’t tell us why, they just say they’ve been given advice! Oh, they tell us what that advice was, but not how that advice was arrived at, not what these top legal minds were told that enabled them to come to that advice. No word on whose best interest that that advice was given, for it could easily have been advice that says that the SFA, or individual members of the SFA, could end up in hot water if a review went ahead.

But let’s remember, part of the remit of any inquiry would be to examine evidence that was withheld from the LNS inquiry, and why it was withheld, by the very people telling us they have been advised against such a review. So how can we, or anyone fully aware of these known knowns, believe that the advice given was as a result of a full appraisal of the facts, rather than as a result of selective details given to counsel by these conflicted participants in the greatest crime Scottish football has ever had committed against it?

Without a review of the Rangers scandal, all the changes that are made in Scottish football governance, to provide more robust safeguards against similar cheating happening again, will never be enough to give the thinking football supporter cause to trust our game, and in particular those charged with protecting the integrity of our game, again.

And, of course, no one involved, speaking as an individual or on behalf of a club or Scottish football’s governing bodies, has stated that Rangers did not cheat, or even that they believe Rangers did not cheat. That’s because they believe, at the very least, that Rangers cheated!

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on8:18 am - Sep 12, 2017


East End HammerSeptember 12, 2017 at 06:53   
Am amazed at the amount of information on this Site,Have been a lurker since TSFM started,find it sad that so much has been collated yet not much has changed,Is their still a chance of a private action against the rulings of the SFA or get a judicial review. Perhaps another Advert with some of the findings that have come out after the BTC might stir things up abit , Theirs too much corruption in football which is a shame ,I can understand it in the Premier League as their is so much money involved,but Scottish football deserves better from its supposed leaders and press come to that.  I care and im not even Scottish ,Anyway keep on the good fight ,Truth will out in the end.
_______________________-

Good to know that people without a stake in this game are watching and are as disgusted by our game’s governance as we are. Really glad you’ve stuck with us for so long, hopefully you will see justice served one day04 In the meantime, please try to make as many of your mates aware of what’s happening as you can, but it’s an awful long and complex story to try to tell over a pint03

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John ClarkPosted on8:37 am - Sep 12, 2017


AllyjamboSeptember 12, 2017 at 08:07
‘…. So how can we, or anyone fully aware of these known knowns, believe that the advice given was as a result of a full appraisal of the facts, rather than as a result of selective details given to counsel by these conflicted participants in the greatest crime Scottish football has ever had committed against it?’
___________
In essence, Aj, and while keeping a true appreciation of the relativities, what we have is the near equivalent of a Hillsborough cover-up.

There are men in office in Scottish Football who have so much to hide that, as you say, it has taken them a number of years to get their lying act together.

They now feel that they are home and dry, just as those under scrutiny after Hillsborough must have felt.

It might indeed be that conscienceless men such as they will stagger on for a generation or two before we get the full truth.

But they will stagger on as reviled,despised, and worthless human beings, deliberately choosing expediency over truth.

And, whether they be in their unhallowed graves when it happens, happen it will: the truth will out.

Very, very bad cess to them.

And to the despicable ‘gentlemen of the Press’

 

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tangoed

tangoedPosted on9:08 am - Sep 12, 2017


ALLYJAMBO
 
SEPTEMBER 12,  2017 at 08:18
 
but it’s an awful long and complex story to try to tell over a pint
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Only those who are trying hide the truth are the ones who are making it complex.
Keep it simple.
 
1.Rangers used taxpayers money to pay the salaries of players,without which these players may not have played for Rangers.
 
2.Rangers deliberately failed to register these players properly with the SFA in an effort to hide the fact that they were using illegal tax schemes.
 
What it all boils down to,
 
3.Rangers had to cheat to win a game of football.

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jimboPosted on9:26 am - Sep 12, 2017


S.R: The decision has been taken as a board and having considered all the facts on the table. Since 2011 the board have relied heavily on advice from four QCs and three law lords, supporting us on that journey. We also have two independent directors on our board. Independence has been at its heart and we feel there is enough belief around our board that the decisions have been made with the best interests of Scottish football at heart. 

Think about that for a moment.

What kind of mess were they in that required  FOUR QCs,  Three LAW LORDS?

Heavily relied on.  WHY?

I don’t think even the corrupt Jim Farry had that kind of back up.

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GiorgioVasariPosted on9:33 am - Sep 12, 2017


A small point on Stewart Milne.
Until our club release a statement then his words are his opinion. 
Milne is completely disconnected & out of touch with fans. He doesn’t speak for the club. That’s three times he’s mentioned moving on when he’d no need to say anything at all.

In fact, I remember the first time he said it there was such an angry reaction that the PR guys had to intervene Releasing a statement saying his words had been misinterpreted.

Having said that, I can understand why many are assuming that this is the clubs stance but he’s notorious for opening his big mouth. How can Stewart Milne ask me to pay for a game that is crooked, biased and untrustworthy?
Until the governing bodies are properly investigated then I simply cannot move on. 
 
The only club to make an official statement are Hibernian. Rod Petrie…..Go figure.

In my opinion Lawell holds the aces. He’s now employed at European level, his club could claim to be a bigger draw than the national team and the SFA are merely a bloated organisation not fit for purpose in today’s game. If the SFA are going to change at any time it will be now.
GV

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John ClarkPosted on9:43 am - Sep 12, 2017


jimboSeptember 12, 2017 at 09:26
‘..I don’t think even the corrupt Jim Farry had that kind of back up.’
__________
And,cheating abuser of office that he proved to be,  he no doubt can also  be presumed to have ‘acted with the best interests of Scottish football at heart’.

He paid a price .

His modern day equivalents will also pay, at sometime, the price of their iniquity.

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jimboPosted on9:46 am - Sep 12, 2017


In today’s Daily Record Q and A Regan admitted: “Campbell made a very clear point of recusing himself from every single decision and discussion relating to Rangers. He stepped outside and wasn’t involved at any time.”

Why was this necessary?  Why was someone in the SFA hierarchy so involved with the cheating and corruption allowed a place at Hampden?

They have admitted he was dodgy.

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on9:49 am - Sep 12, 2017


Put yourself, if you can, in the mindset of an opportunistic, self-serving, snide, conflicted, exposed, reality denying organisation. Say, an organisation which thinks Chris Ze List wields a mighty crayon.
Which day would you think would be best for Statement O’Clock?
Not the day when your worst nightmare has a Champions League game surely?
I hope I’m wrong but I would not be surprised to see a Statement from TRFC/RIFC/Club 1690/The Orange Lodge in support of the position of Hibernian FC (Chairman: R. Petrie. SFA European Licensing 2011 chappie). To add to the gaiety of nations the Statement’s gravitas, dignity and staunchness could be underlined by it being issued in the names of current Ibrox Directors; men of integrity such as Dave King, Andrew Dickson, Paul Murray and Alastair Johnston (all Directors or Officials who made the application to R. Petrie’s Committee. And sat on some of the SFA’s Committees).
Now take yourself out of that mindset. It’s neither normal nor healthy.
Mind you I’m wondering whether my wish for a wee message from the Green Brigade to S. Regan is normal or healthy.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on9:49 am - Sep 12, 2017


tangoedSeptember 12, 2017 at 09:08   
ALLYJAMBO SEPTEMBER 12,  2017 at 08:18 but it’s an awful long and complex story to try to tell over a pint—————————————————————————-Only those who are trying hide the truth are the ones who are making it complex.Keep it simple. 1.Rangers used taxpayers money to pay the salaries of players,without which these players may not have played for Rangers. 2.Rangers deliberately failed to register these players properly with the SFA in an effort to hide the fact that they were using illegal tax schemes. What it all boils down to, 3.Rangers had to cheat to win a game of football.
________________________–

Thanks for that, Tangoed, and, of course, my stories are never fine examples of brevity09 but your 1,2,3 might help me get it across to my uninterested mates in my local here in darkest Derbyshire 04

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on10:02 am - Sep 12, 2017


jimboSeptember 12, 2017 at 09:46   
In today’s Daily Record Q and A Regan admitted: “Campbell made a very clear point of recusing himself from every single decision and discussion relating to Rangers. He stepped outside and wasn’t involved at any time.”Why was this necessary?  Why was someone in the SFA hierarchy so involved with the cheating and corruption allowed a place at Hampden?They have admitted he was dodgy.
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But he was involved, throughout the period of the cheating, that is, and that’s what counts. Of course he bloody recused himself, he had no choice, he was in it right up to his shiny brass neck. But he knew he could rely on good old Stewart to guide the ‘investigation’ in whatever direction suited all the bad guys, and does anyone believe that Ogilvie was never consulted, or allowed to make ‘suggestions’? He was only ever a phone call away!

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wottpiPosted on10:08 am - Sep 12, 2017


ALLYJAMBOSEPTEMBER 12, 2017 at 08:07

I think Allyjambos post sums up the mess perfectly.

While we appreciate there may have been issues with regard to not offering explanations while legal proceedings were ongoing, any blurb uttered by Regan and the current level of explanations of goings on in the Rangers saga are wholly insufficient.

As discussed by myself and others last night Tom English appears to be all over the place with regard to whether or not to move on or if inquires are required.

While we may not always like what Tom has to say I think we agree that he is an educated and intelligent man. Not wanting to question the intellect of fellow supporters, but if Tom English is confused then it is appears to me that the footballing authorities with their current stance are not going to be able to get their message and explanations over clearly to the average paying punter on the terraces.

That alone is a major failing when they cannot explain themselves to their paying customers. 

I am reminded of the Plain English campaign whose aims are fighting for plain English in public communication. They oppose gobbledygook, jargon and legalese.

The utterances from Regan last night seem to be wholly against those principles.

As an example in the STV interview with Grant Russell there is talk of the email correspondence re the Euro licence debacle. 

GR: What about your email with Ali Russell where you were essentially trying to get Rangers to agree to the press release that the SFA were saying there was no case to answer with the UEFA license?
SR: No, not at all. What you are referring to there is the duty of confidentiality that the SFA has in our licensing rules were we are not allowed to publish any licensing decision relating to any particular club without the club’s consent so the conversation that we had with Ali was about the information relating to the club license.
GR: So you are saying you sent the draft press release to them exactly asking them ‘are you content with this?’
SR: Because it related to club licensing and a licensing decision, which is caught by duty of confidentiality through the licensing committee rules.
GR: But this is a question of their conduct that you were looking at?
SR: No it was a licensing committee matter and therefore under club licensing regulations there is a duty of confidentiality. So we were simply sharing the release that we were intending on making to make sure it complied with duty of confidentiality.

This tells us nothing. It doesn’t tell anyone what the exact rule is (I am sure someone on here will check). It gives no real context to the issue and why it was handled in this way. He merely repeats the gobbledygook (‘duty of confidentiality’ x 4) and hides behind the legalise. Think of Jeremy Paxman’s infamous interview with Michael Howard. 

He does not even give other examples to help show us that this type of thing is normal practice within the game. i.e the SFA agreeing the content of press releases with the club involved.

With such an arrogant, uncompromising an unsympathetic stance towards the paying customer it is no wonder the likes of Regan and Doncaster will continue to hear a stadium full of Boos when they appear at games.

Bring on a Judicial Review.

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wottpiPosted on10:17 am - Sep 12, 2017


TANGOEDSEPTEMBER 12, 2017 at 09:08  

3.Rangers had to cheat to win a game of football.
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Sorry to be pedantic but should 3. not read “Rangers had to cheat to be competitive in the hope of winning a game of football.”

It matters not a jot if they won lost or drew. Plenty cheats in other sports have been punished and banned despite not winning the prize they sought. 

Winning it not the key, its all back down to ‘Sporting Integrity’ because the financial doping used by Rangers affected other clubs further down the food chain, not just on the park but also by shaping the manner in which decisions were made with regard to others trying to remain competitive.

The actions of other clubs are of course their own responsibility and people have to stand up and be counted for their own actions but one cannot dismiss the effect the Rangers/BoS ‘spending spree’ had on the game.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on10:17 am - Sep 12, 2017


GiorgioVasariSeptember 12, 2017 at 09:33   
A small point on Stewart Milne.Until our club release a statement then his words are his opinion. Milne is completely disconnected & out of touch with fans. He doesn’t speak for the club. That’s three times he’s mentioned moving on when he’d no need to say anything at all.In fact, I remember the first time he said it there was such an angry reaction that the PR guys had to intervene Releasing a statement saying his words had been misinterpreted.Having said that, I can understand why many are assuming that this is the clubs stance but he’s notorious for opening his big mouth. How can Stewart Milne ask me to pay for a game that is crooked, biased and untrustworthy?Until the governing bodies are properly investigated then I simply cannot move on.  The only club to make an official statement are Hibernian. Rod Petrie…..Go figure.In my opinion Lawell holds the aces. He’s now employed at European level, his club could claim to be a bigger draw than the national team and the SFA are merely a bloated organisation not fit for purpose in today’s game. If the SFA are going to change at any time it will be now.GV
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Excellent point you make, Giorgio, and very heartening, I hope many Dons supporters can take solace from it and continue their efforts in seeking justice, these efforts have been second only to Celtic supporters in it’s size and imagination. Now that it is pointed out that it is only Hibs (and genuine sympathy to all Hibs supporters, you are carrying some weight on your shoulders and certainly don’t deserve it) who have made an official statement, it will be interesting to see if they remain alone in this, for that would surely make it clear that it is a Petrie led statement rather than the will of the club, unless he ‘is the club’.

Hibs have set a precedent, so, if no other clubs make a statement, or only a few more, it will certainly look like the others do not share their opinions on the matter, and add to the suspicions that the statement has more to do with Petrie’s position at the SFA than anything else.

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misterlightbulbjokePosted on10:27 am - Sep 12, 2017


There was a telling point in yesterday’s Sportsound broadcast, it arrived after 25minutes of the usual rubbish involving dancing on the head of pins. The moment itself was Kenny Macintyre doing a 180 and asking the panel ” so what are the reasons for not having a review?”. Anyone familiar with the famous what have the Romans ever done  sketch will know the joke lay in the fact that their was in fact an abundance of good answers to the question. Sportsound supplied the laughs in the opposite way, once the question was asked there was the most pregnant of pauses before a voice managed to say “cost?” the others joined in “oh yeah, cost, would cost about £400,000,jeez , no way”. Tragic but hilarious.
On the subject of Hibs. It worth pointing out that their statement was issued as a public reply to enquiries from Hibbes fans as to where the club stood on transparency in Scottish football governance. The only Hibs fans motivated enough about the issue  to send in enquiries would have been the ones wishing to see justice done. Stands to reason.

Lastly, if the SFA wish to clear this whole thing up , why not rewrite the rules and apply retrospectively? Something along the lines of” In order for a player to be eligible to play in official matches at least one of his contracts must be presented to the authorities”.

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East End HammerPosted on10:35 am - Sep 12, 2017


ALLYJAMBO sadly im in Australia,The crowd I drink with are across section from every part of UK and Ireland, were mostly all in our 60s afew are Rangers supporters who are just in denial hahaha ,We have had afew arguments over it but this far away its not worth losing friendships  Their is some discussion now and again on Knees Up Mother Brown West Ham fan site, I believe Craig Whyte may have the film rites to this saga , Hope some one picks it up  would make a great Crime then court film

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jimboPosted on10:39 am - Sep 12, 2017


Apologies to AJ.  Just read back and realise he had my point about legal advice covered as 8.07, far better than me.  But at least we think alike. 04

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:55 am - Sep 12, 2017


Forgive my ignorance, who are the three Law Lords who provided the SFA with advice and in what capacity / context did they do it.

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jimboPosted on11:06 am - Sep 12, 2017


I think it was Lords Haw Haw, Hee Haw and Lord of Misrule

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:08 am - Sep 12, 2017


In the past few days, I’ve read the following (slightly paraphrased) from Mr. Regan:

‘The LNS Commission was SPL/SPFL led. If there is new evidence, it’s up to the SPL to request LNS to revisit/reconsider.’

‘We haven’t had any new information raised with us by member clubs. If they have new information or evidence they feels falls into our jurisdiction then we will deal with that.’

Does Mr. Regan live in a vacuum?

Both the Supreme Court BTC findings & the Craig Whyte trial put new evidence into the public domain. Is he really saying that unless facts are presented to governing bodies on the correct form, signed & dated twice, & then witnessed by a W.S., then that information is not acceptable/available/credible to them?

Proactive, Stewie, not reactive…

Frankly, the CEO of the SFA is playing Jenga with Scottish football.

He thinks he has a steady hand. I’m not so sure.

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easyJamboPosted on11:14 am - Sep 12, 2017


Homunculus September 12, 2017 at 10:55 
Forgive my ignorance, who are the three Law Lords who provided the SFA with advice and in what capacity / context did they do it.
====================
My guesses would be Lord Carloway who chaired the Appellate tribunal who heard and rejected Rangers appeal about bringing the game into disrepute and confirmed a fine and a transfer embargo on the club back in May 2012.

Lord Glennie heard Rangers request for a Judicial Review of that decision, also in May 2012, and judged that the transfer embargo was ultra vires (despite that, the transfer embargo was later reinstated against the Newco).

Lord Nimmo Smith (retired) chaired the much criticised SPL Commission into non disclosure of contracts, eventually reporting in February 2013.

Many more Law Lords and Ladies have presided over cases involving Oldco, Newco and associated individuals and third parties over the last few years, but I think those are the three who were directly involved in interpreting the SFA/SPL rules.

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PatsyPosted on11:15 am - Sep 12, 2017


Peter Lawell is not a stupid man he knows Petrie is in it up to his neck and had already predicted the parasite would make a statement like the one he did, Celtic have a massive CL game tonight  and he doesn’t want to deflect any more attention from that but my feeling is he knew when he published the correspondence between him and the SFA all the shysters would come out of the woodwork to try and cover themselves up but actually all they have done is make themselves look even more guilty by their stance, now my guess is Peter Lawell has a lot more up his sleeve the man could run rings around them with his feet tied together, no watch this space I think the SFA have walked their way into sh#t creek and Lawell will be there holding their paddles laughing the loudest watching them drown in their own sh@t…this is going to get really interesting in the next few days I think the only one who has coordinated this right is Lawell.

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bigboab1916Posted on11:29 am - Sep 12, 2017


The law lords that Regan did not want to reference was the ones who cleared Craig White, liquidated Rangers and brought about the verdict in the COS that Rangers as they were known cheated the HMRC and their employees by failing to pay PAYE and NIC on their earnings. 
To me this wipes out his argument guilty on all counts bar CW.
1. Craig White was not the guilty party
2. Rangers were liquidated by the HMRC for unpaid taxes
3. Rangers used a tax scam which was proven to be a scam
Now this is evident CW inherited Murrays wee tax case. SFA issued a licence whilst they knew of this tax to be paid and players were inelligble to play as they were not properly registerd.
CYBIG

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SmugasPosted on11:36 am - Sep 12, 2017


HomunculusSeptember 12, 2017 at 10:55
Forgive my ignorance, who are the three Law Lords who provided the SFA with advice and in what capacity / context did they do it.

I would need to check but I think it was a different three to the ones they used for Gretna, Airdrie and 3rd Lanark?

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jimboPosted on11:45 am - Sep 12, 2017


“So we were simply sharing the release that we were intending on making to make sure it complied with duty of confidentiality.”  (SR)

So where are all the genius people employed at Hampden, including Regan, that they have to run an intended press release past the genius people at Ibrox for it to go ahead?

Are they not sure of their own rules?

Seriously? 

Where were all the QCs and Law Lords?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on12:15 pm - Sep 12, 2017


jimboSeptember 12, 2017 at 11:06   
I think it was Lords Haw Haw, Hee Haw and Lord of Misrule
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Jimbo, you just made my day 0412

And now I’ve got a hand coming out of my ear…I’ll get ma hat…oops, it won’t sit on my head now

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jimboPosted on12:28 pm - Sep 12, 2017


I’m a nervous wreck.  Yesterday my pal & me swore we would not go the pub today so as to be fit for the game tonight.  However I’m bottling it.  I will go over to his place and convince him that Celtic will play better in defence if we go out this afternoon.

I almost hope I will come back up the road at 5pm, sleep through the game and awake to a 7-0 victory for Celtic (which would make up for that Barca. result last year – whit a riddy!).

We will see.  Some of the above might not happen.  0211

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on12:29 pm - Sep 12, 2017


I don’t normally mention football matches here, but I would like to say that I wish Celtic every success tonight, and in the rest of their Champions League campaign, for not only are they representing Scottish football in Europe, they are carrying the hopes of all who only want what is right and just to prevail in our beloved game.

The way I feel just now, if my club, Hearts, were to join Celtic in demanding a review, I would be so damned proud I wouldn’t care if, in the end, it was all for nothing, for my club, that has let Scottish football down with it’s own insolvency event, would be seen to be doing it’s best to right a great wrong. Sometimes it’s not the result that counts, but how you play the game.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on1:03 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Sorry but people seem to be just naming Judges, at least one of whom was retired at the time.

This is taken from the Parliament website 

http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/about-lords/lords-types/law-lords/

Law Lords

Highly qualified, full-time judges, the Law Lords carried out the judicial work of the House of Lords until 30 July 2009. 
The final appeal hearings and judgments of the House of Lords took place on 30 July 2009. The judicial role of the House of Lords as the highest appeal court in the UK has ended.

From 1 October 2009, the Supreme Court of the UK assumed jurisdiction on points of law for all civil law cases in the UK and all criminal cases in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Justices of the Supreme Court

The 12 Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (the Law Lords) are the first justices of the 12-member Supreme Court and are disqualified from sitting or voting in the House of Lords. When they retire from the Supreme Court they can return to the House of Lords as full Members but newly-appointed Justices of the Supreme Court will not have seats in the House of Lords.

==================================

Mr Reagan is trying the same trick as he did with the Nimmo Smith enquiry, making something look much more impressive and official than it actually is by misleading people.

From what I can see we haven’t actually had Law Lords since 2009 and I would be pretty stunned if Justices of the Supreme Court were involved in this, other than to confirm that Rangers had avoided tens of millions of pounds in tax.

So, if anything the “Law Lords” unequivocally confirm that Rangers stole money, it is reasonable to infer that they then used that money to run the club, including attracting players they could not otherwise afford. As confirmed by David Murray. 

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on1:22 pm - Sep 12, 2017


The three un named Law Lords ?

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on1:28 pm - Sep 12, 2017


There are 5 “Law Lords” whose opinion Mr Reagan, and anyone else involved in this fiasco should consider

Lord Neuberger, Lady Hale, Lord Reed, Lord Carnwath, Lord Hodge

He can find the important parts here

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0073-press-summary.pdf

If he wants the really summarised version here it is.

JUDGMENT
The Supreme Court unanimously dismisses RFC’s appeal. 

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naegreetinPosted on1:48 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Re Reaction of other SPFL Clubs
I have to register my disappointment in my team’s (DUFC) silence on matters – Stephen Thompson is , I think , reluctant to take on any more grief re Rangers & wants to “move on” – must say I am also disappointed with the lack of any reaction from the two ladies new to SPFL clubs – I had high hopes they would introduce some 21st century thinking to Scottish football but obviously running a business overrides matters of sporting integrity as it seems to most clubs judging by the lack of any support for a review .
What a pity the season ticket money threat (as used when The Rangers were to be parachuted into the leagues) cannot be used this time to concentrate clubs’ minds on this matter .

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Jimmy McPosted on1:58 pm - Sep 12, 2017


New poster.
Not an expert but the opinion of a QC is not exclusive to the SFA and is available to anyone who can afford it.
If, having been cheated of revenue, progress and prosperity for the last quarter of a century, clubs ken their place, Scottish football is doomed to mediocrity.
If Celtic alone take on the responsibility to clean the stable, fans of other clubs(groups/associations) must be encouraged to think beyond their clubs(their Petrie’s and Milne’s) and back CFC. 
Celtic Football Club will fight for justice. No doubt about that. Question is, will Scottish football supporters realise the future of their game depends on their support for Peter Lawwell?

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AuldheidPosted on2:45 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Wottpi 
On Regan’s exchange with RFC in Dec 2011 as covered by Grant Russell.
Should the final question by Grant not have been “given you appear to have to seek the permission of the licence club despie being the licensor, that is the licensing AUTHORITY what information did the licensor give you that made you not publish anything? 
If that information was that there was nothing potential or under discussion why did you not act then to publish such.
If the reason did not cover that the liability was neither potential or under discussion will this failure to enlighten you be brought out in the Compliance Officer case?
In effect will Regan through Dickson under a bus to protect himself?
Framing all of that is Regan saying that by December 2011 the SFA had no idea in spite of the false submissions in June and particularly September where the SFA offered advice, that the SFA still believed the status of the overdue payable was still potential and under discussion?
His explanation covering 7th December e mail is risible. If SFA believed the Grant Thornton letter they only had to refer to it withought seeking permission from the license applicant and even when they did they could still have published if applicant did not agree.
So was Regan covering up for Dickson by not publishing anything?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on2:45 pm - Sep 12, 2017


HomunculusSeptember 12, 2017 at 13:03

One should wonder how it is that our mainstream media haven’t been able to do the research you’ve just done and to question the spouter of such rubbish, then, after he’s refused to answer their awkward questions, make the football public aware of this attempt to fool us all and his refusal to explain why. But, of course, we have no need to wonder at this latest failure by the SMSM, it’s just the way it is and we know them for what they are.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:16 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Well, Regan must be rattled: he made himself available to a Gary Ralston/DR for a ‘hard hitting’ Q&A…which was the usual PR p!sh.

To be fair though, Regan did actually mention ‘fans‘, [once I think in all his answers].

And as a last resort as back up to a JR…

Would be great if crowd-funding paid for blanket advertising on billboards around Hampden, and in the newspapers quoting simply the text;

“The SFA is corrupt.
 If not, then please sue for libel.”

I know, adverts probably wouldn’t be accepted, and the SFA blazers would all stampede for the bunker until those nasty adverts had gone. 

Giving the fans an opportunity to explain why we claim the SFA is corrupt – on the balance of probabilities – in a civil court and under oath, might be too easy? 

Would be worth every penny though!  

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AuldheidPosted on3:31 pm - Sep 12, 2017


“that is the licensing AUTHORITY what information did the licensee (the club) give you that made you not publish anything? ”
Correction to original.
Additional comment has to be what is the frigging point of the SFA? They appear to carry no authority whatsover if they have to clear everything with clubs first.
If so them it not a question of better governance it’s a question of any governance.

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on3:43 pm - Sep 12, 2017


ALLYJAMBO

SEPTEMBER 12, 2017 at 14:45 

One should wonder how it is that our mainstream media haven’t been able to do the research you’ve just done and to question the spouter of such rubbish, then, after he’s refused to answer their awkward questions, make the football public aware of this attempt to fool us all and his refusal to explain why. But, of course, we have no need to wonder at this latest failure by the SMSM, it’s just the way it is and we know them for what they are.
————————————-

One should also wonder why the mainstream media haven’t managed to find one whistleblower (not of the ‘messan in the black’ variety!) among the echelons of staff at the SFA/SPL/SPFL/RFC/either Sevco/MGH et alia who is prepared to spill the beans on this fiasco.

I find that silence rather deafening…

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wottpiPosted on3:56 pm - Sep 12, 2017


AULDHEIDSEPTEMBER 12, 2017 at 14:45

Regan can hide behind the excuse that Rangers didn’t disclose all the appropriate information (now where have we heard that before).

However, the fact that the infamous email exchange was the result of “persistent speculation across all media” with regard to the validity of the awarding of a licence then surely the SFA as the  Licensing Authority should have done more to fully establish the truth and then tell everyone why they were wrong to cast aspersions, gossip and scandal.

Even if Dickson does get thrown under the bus in the upcoming investigation by the Compliance Officer (and don’t bet any money on that BTW) the episode shows Regan as being incompetent as head of the Licensing Authority or easily lent on by the then Rangers,  or both.

Funny how he buckled after a few short emails from the great and good at Ibrox  but stands strong against fairly detailed correspondence with Lawwell.

Maybe Peter should have invited him out for dinner to discuss ‘bigger issues’. 07

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roddybhoyPosted on4:03 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Allyjambo 12.29
    You are a true gent and football supporter . To say if your team Hearts joined Celtic in pushing for a JR you would be bursting with pride………What a terrific thing to say you made me fill up there …stop it !!
Sounds crazy I know but when I woke up this morning the first thought that came into my head was the f@@@@ng SFA and what they have done and are still doing to our game . They the blazers just dont get what the game as a whole means to ordinary fans on the forums trying to right a (HUGE) wrong.
Was so downbeat last night when I heard the Hibs statement although I was nt surprised as Petrie will be up to his neck in it.
I still hold up hope that maybe the Hibs fans and Aberdeen fans can save us… I think a mass walk out a la liverpool at half time or something would do the trick. Also hope enough pressure from Jambo fans could see Mrs Budge see sense ( tbh I dont know the jambos fans thoughts on all this , Hearts and Celtic have never been best of mates !!) maybe siding with Celtic is too big an ask for Jambo fans. The ironic thing is that I dont think it would take a lot of pressure for Mrs Budge to move… still building a new stand etc , she has a helluva lot to lose if the fans turned against her . Any hoo thanks for that great post and heres hoping we get there in the end by whatever means

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bigboab1916Posted on5:27 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Inside The SPFL‏ @AgentScotland 2h   You’ve covered this story from day one Chris, as a fan of the game in Scotland do you believe we need an independent review? 2 replies . 3 retweets 3 likes  
Chris McLaughlin‏Verified account @BBCchrismclaug    Replying to @AgentScotlandI enjoy your tweets but I’m taking the fifth on that. The noise my opinion would create wouldn’t be worth it. Can I see both sides – yep.
 Oh dear the smell is getting stronger, please chase these guys out of celtic Park and do not entertain them by reading or tuning into them the smell of fear and the protection of their job is worth more than the truth.There is no fifth Chris this is Scotland if you are still reeling from your Ibrox rejection find a new job you are obviously not a journalist.

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West Ham FanPosted on7:01 pm - Sep 12, 2017


Celtic have the Option ofc if they really feel strongly about the Corruption at the SFA and that is to Play the Nuclear Button.. Resign from the SFA and Inform EUFA and the UK and European Media why they have done so. I imagine just the threat of Celtic doing that would result in most clubs in Scotland having a very quick change of mind about supporting Regan and the SFA. OFC it Depends on Celtic having the Nerve to do that. 

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jimboPosted on7:09 pm - Sep 12, 2017


My heart is breaking.  The king of Kings on BT to support us.  Please God.

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HighlanderPosted on9:30 pm - Sep 12, 2017


While it’s quiet on here with everyone watching tonight’s CL game, can I slip the following in unnoticed 14 and potentially upset the largest demographic on this excellent site by mentioning that the SFA’s compliance officer Tony McGlennan has decided that Scott Brown has no case to answer following his kick to the face of Hamilton’s Giannis Skondras.

In the incident, which I have watched umpteen times in slow motion, it is blatantly obvious that Brown deliberately and petulantly flicks his boot into Skondras’ face. I appreciate that the referee could not have possibly seen any offence in real time, but I am utterly astonished that the compliance officer has not taken action against Brown considering he has the advantage of repeatedly seeing the incident slowed down, exactly as I have. To my mind, it’s as clear a case of deliberate violent conduct as we’re going to see all season – an absolute no-brainer!

Brown is running forward with his two feet facing forward and parallel to each other in an entirely natural position when he inexplicably flicks his left foot into an open position just as his foot reaches level with the prostrate and grounded Skondras’ face.

I can only think of three possible explanations for Brown rotating his foot 90 degrees in the way that he did;

1. He slipped. Watching the incident in slow motion, it is quite apparent that he did not slide, as a sliding motion would have been evident from the footage.
2. He suffered an unexpected muscle spasm at the most inopportune moment. I think we can file this in the same trash folder as Rangers ‘same club’ nonsense.
3. Brown had one of his regular brain farts during which he deliberately kicked out at a grounded opponent in order to inflict damage. It doesn’t matter whether contact was severe or minimal, nor whether the two players ‘made up’ after the event, Brown was out of control – yet again, and escaped punishment – yet again.

One of the most satisfying aspects of reading and contributing to SFM is the co-existence and co-operation of fans from different clubs working together to highlight and address misgovernance in Scottish football. It is natural that there will always be more input from Celtic fans in view of the size of that club’s support relative to the rest. However, it annoys me (as you can no doubt tell) that on the rare occasions that Celtic come under the misgovernance spotlight, everybody closes ranks and enters the same world of denial that we regularly chastise Rangers fans for.

As a fan of one of our supposedly lesser clubs, I can assure you that the vast majority of us view the SFA’s decision not to charge Scott Brown as just another example in a list of many where the big clubs are pandered to.

Now I’m not for a second suggesting that my view of what happened in the Brown incident is definitive or carries any more weight than anyone else’s – I’d just love somebody to explain how taking your shirt off in celebration is a yellow card offence but deliberately kicking an opponent in the face isn’t!

Thanks to both of those who replied on the subject yesterday. For their benefit, no I wasn’t influenced by the commentary – I watched with the sound off. And I don’t believe an appeal would have succeeded simply because the onus was on the SFA to prove it was intentional. It’s not a court of law and decisions are regularly made based on opinion, rather than proven fact. Of course it’s a moot point since there will be no appeal.

What I consider to be the damning evidence is around the 10-11 second mark on the Scotman’s video clip, but it does require to be seen in slow motion, or at least paused and played several times.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/scott-brown-could-face-old-firm-ban-for-kicking-player-s-face-1-4556272

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jimboPosted on9:31 pm - Sep 12, 2017


05

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jimboPosted on10:50 pm - Sep 12, 2017


I know I’m not popular on here.  But here’s a song for everyone.  Love and peace.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on12:05 am - Sep 13, 2017


And a son g for you and yours, Jimbo .

https://www.youtube.com/embed/H-WqFUnqhSc

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Bill1903

Bill1903Posted on8:05 am - Sep 13, 2017


Going to be quiet on here today.
Hope that wasn’t jimbo on the pitch03

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LUGOSI

LUGOSIPosted on10:01 am - Sep 13, 2017


I’m trying to think of a reason why the Scottish Champions were outplayed (and if it hadn’t have been for Neymar outclassed ) last night.
I keep getting told that the fact that opponents have spent vast sums of money, even if the source of that money is not lawful and allows an opponent to acquire players that they could not otherwise afford, confers no sporting advantage. So that can’t be the reason. It is hard to disagree with the argument that Mbappe would have gone to PSG for the petrol money. If it were later to transpire that the undeclared petrol money was of an amount sufficient to drain a couple of oil wells and was delivered to him in brown paper wheelbarrows I’ve been told this would only be an imperfectly registered learning. Similarly, if the source of the petrol money were The Great Train Robbery I’ve been told this happened a long time ago and we should move on. I think the source of this story was R. Biggs who said it was all a misunderstanding and he won’t do it again. Well, that’s good enough for me.
So what’s the reason?
If only this sport had some sort of governing body to provide guidance and supervision and adherence to rules and learnings and…

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SmugasPosted on10:06 am - Sep 13, 2017


Oh for goodness sake Lugosi just listen to Roy Macgregor saying it was nothing to do with him and he has no view one way or the other.

Or as Matt Lyndsay translates it – Roy says no review and its all vindictive Celtic’s fault.

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wottpiPosted on10:06 am - Sep 13, 2017


BILL1903SEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 08:05

I wouldn’t be Jimbo he was too busy hugging his TV everytime Henrik came on 10

However, that’s the problem with taking the moral high ground at times.

Every team has some zoomer in their support that has the potential to spoil it for everyone.

Banners, flares and songs could be considered as run of the mill offenses that are carried out by a number of clubs in European competitions but getting on the pitch in an attempt to attack the second most expensive player on the planet could potentially land Celtic in a heap of trouble and may be the straw that breaks the camels back given the recent run of fines.

When we on here would all like the support of Uefa in regards to the Rangers saga this type of irresponsible nonsense damages, not only Celtic’s ambitions, but by association the rest of Scottish Football.

How many lifetime bans do some clubs need to give out before some of their fans get the message.

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roddybhoyPosted on10:11 am - Sep 13, 2017


God there really is a dirty war going on against Celtic . In work , its Smooth radio on in the background, yesterday they delighted in telling us that its only Celtic who want a Judicial Review  and their LEADING story this morning is of the clown who came onto the pitch last night and how UEFA are gonna take action. The Girl even referred to it as a” pitch invasion at Celtic Park “giving the impression it was loads of fans. Why are the SFA allowed to wage a dirty war against a member club , it totally scunners me and how do they influence ALL the media, radio , papers STV and the supposedly Neutral BBC ……..only in Scotland

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watcherPosted on10:16 am - Sep 13, 2017


Jimbo, no doubt you will feel down today, no real need to. PSG are probably the team who will win the trophy this season. As a watcher i have a couple of comments to make though. I accept it would make little difference to last nights result, but surely the signing of Mbappe is just cheating by any other name. The guy who ran on the park is a fool, but it is strange the reaction by a certain Mr English “It was a moronic moment, an incident that governing body Uefa, correctly, will investigate. Heavy punishment is coming Celtic’s way, that’s a guarantee”. I for one do not recall Mr English making such observations when a moron ran on to confront Scott Brown at Ibrox recently, and i do not recall the investigation or the “heavy punishment”. Strange i do not even recall a headline saying Rangers were “crushed” by Celtic. There really is a strange bias against Celtic going on. The truth is Celtic are competing with Anderlecht for third place and i personally think they will do it. Last observation on last night, PSG were superb, sometimes you just get beat from better teams, its life.

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wottpiPosted on11:10 am - Sep 13, 2017


WATCHERSEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 10:16
The issue is that UEFA (and indeed FIFA) is set up to protect its big names.

Celtic are relative small fry.

What passes as tolerated behaviour in Scotland, sectarianism, politicization of football matches, no penalties for cup final pitch invasions, dodgy reffing decisions and Scott Brown’s testing the water for what he can get away with for the first 15mins gets short shrift in the bigger world.

When Lennon was attacked at Tynecastle the SPL and SFA took no action against Hearts on the basis that stewarding arrangements were adequate.

Compare that with Uefa’s treatement of what one could describe as lesser offenses being no physical contact was made with players or club officials.

The Parkhead club had to pay £25,000 to Uefa in 2007 when a fan confronted AC Milan keeper Dida during a Champions League match and received a £42,000 fine by Uefa in 2008 after a supporter ran on the pitch at their Champions League match against Manchester United.
Similarly, Rangers were fined £4,230 by Europe’s governing body for a pitch invasion that interrupted their Uefa Cup tie with Maccabi Haifa in November 2006.

In having form for supporters entering the field of play and the run of recent Uefa  fines, Tom English is wholly correct to say that Celtic may be in big trouble.

I reiterate, nothing to do with the club itself and its actions  but because of a handful of moronic supporters.

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John ClarkPosted on11:33 am - Sep 13, 2017


roddybhoySeptember 13, 2017 at 10:11
‘…Why are the SFA allowed to wage a dirty war against a member club .’
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Wrong question,roddybhoy.

Better ask ” Why were the SFA able to lie to Scottish Football and UEFA and by that lie  put millions of pounds into the unentitled hands of a club in desperate financial straits? and
how and why were they able to sucker or bully every other club into accepting :
the fantastical notion that  ineligible players are not ineligible until after they have played ineligibly, so that they couldn’t have been ineligible at the time they played
the equally ridiculous idea that a club founded in 2012 can be the same club as a club founded in 1872 which is currently in liquidtion
and the absurd idea that  such  new club can be entitled to even the justly earned sporting achievements of a different club?
It’s not  dirty war against Celtic per se, but an all-out assault on the integrity of the Sport as a whole, in favour of one cheating beast of a monster: sadly aided by  craven quislings of the same low level of personal integrity as were the fawning gauleiters of nazi Germany.
There is indeed something rotten and evil at the heart of Scottish Football.
It’s called the ‘revolving door syndrome’ built in to the very structure of the SFA, by its great architects, expressly designed to ensure the perennial supremacy of one club,come hell, high water,  or, more prosaically, Liquidation and extinction.
Men who have walked through that door in one direction or another have made whores of their personal integrity over many years.
But never on such a Messalina-like scale as in the present generation.
And in doing so, they have *ucked Scottish Football right royally and loyally.

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Bogs DolloxPosted on1:12 pm - Sep 13, 2017


jimboSeptember 12, 2017 at 19:09 
My heart is breaking.  The king of Kings on BT to support us.  Please God.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now you know what its like to be a diddy club at Parkhead!18

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