News in The Times of Celtic’s letter to Stewart Regan regarding that club’s wish for a Judicial Review into the SFA’s handing of the Rangers EBT crisis increases the pressure on Regan considerably.
The SFA Chief Executive’s ill-advised spat with Pie and Bovril editor David McDonald this week may even be a sign he is devolving, and at least it demonstrates that, despite Twitter disaster after Twitter disaster, Regan doesn’t learn readily from his mistakes.
Also, it appears from the contents of Celtic’s letter that their target in terms of a Judicial Review has been the SFA, and not the SPFL, all along. That chimes with developments as I understand them elsewhere in this process.
Even though it now appears that Celtic and a fan group are seeking a Judicial Review it is by no means certain that it will ever happen.
Having a sound legal basis for it, obtaining standing, and having a reasonable chance of victory are all variables in the equation, and each has to be weighed carefully before progress can be made.
Having said that, if the reason any Judicial Review fails is because of that lawyer-speak we have been subjected to of late, the SFA may yet come to believe that hiding behind legalese is neither in football’s best interests, nor in the interests of the individuals at the SFA who are under fire.
The bottom line as they, is this;
Rangers did acquire an unfair advantage over others by their use of EBTs. The SPL themselves were flabbergasted when Sandy Bryson proclaimed his eponymous ‘imperfectly registered’ doctrine. They all know – everyone in every board room in the country, in every SFA department, in every SPFL office – that cheating took place.
In fact and in spirit.
The jaws of the vice are tightening as we speak. The fans group who are building a case for a Judicial Review give its handle a wee turn every day, and the leak of the Celtic letter to Regan reduces his wiggle room even further.
It is surely now just a matter of time before this ridiculous and infamous chapter in Scotland’s football history is dealt with.
Of course people will accuse anyone who is a Celtic fan, or an Aberdeen fan, or a Dundee United fan (clubs whose rivalry with Rangers is keenest) of partisanship in this affair. That is mere deflection and bears no scrutiny whatsoever.
As a Celtic fan myself, I can’t deny that I am angry at what took place between (at least) 2000 and 2009, but does that mean that as a Celtic fan I have to recuse myself from having an opinion?
And as a former employee of the club, am I excluded from any conversation about the integrity of our game because the club at the centre of the scandal is Rangers? Pull the other one.
SFM, and the wider fans’ movement has been consistently appalled by this sorry chapter over the last six years, but is no kangaroo court. We are not asking for conclusions to be drawn without due process. We see unexplained regulatory anomalies in the processes at Ibrox and Hampden which have never to our knowledge been addressed. We simply wish that they should be.
Further, if my club was at the heart of this nonsense, I think I’d be incandescent with rage that they had allowed me to revel in the joy of winning all those trophies, only to have the achievements cheapened and nullified by their mismanagement. I would regard that as the ultimate betrayal (and Celtic fans can give you a list of club betrayals as long as Mao’s march).
I’d be thinking that those same business practices that apparently had given us so much, had actually caused to fail catastrophically. Having taken delight in the honours, I would have to accept the consequences too.
The SFA, by their corrupt approach to the demise of Rangers, have denied Rangers fans the catharsis that they could benefit from. In fact the authorities’ refusal to deal with the situation in terms of their own rules it has fostered a siege mentality to exist at Ibrox.
This in turn has enabled a series of charlatans, including the current board, to drive the bus in the direction of a brick wall for the last five years.
After the phenomenally successful share issue (something that can’t happen again whilst King is in charge for regulatory reasons), the new Rangers were given seed capital which should have flowered by now with the regular watering of their huge fan base. That £22m, which should have seen the club competing at the top by now has gone, and the potential which existed in 2012 has been diminished severely.
It’s no fun being a fan of Scottish football in the midst of this. But we make a fundamental error if we think that Rangers fans are enjoying it. They are victims in this too, and they have been defrauded by the Murray-era shenanigans, and the circus performers who have been on the scene since then – every bit as much as the rest of us.
The honourable thing (no laughing at the back) for the SFA to do would be to agree to Celtic’s request for a Judicial Review.
If the pressure is turned up another notch or three on the SFA, then maybe we will all get closure, and perhaps finally we can move on.
I see Phil Mac is sniffing around what the SFA knew of the HMRC investigation into Rangers by way of a Section 36 Order of the 2008 Finance Act whereby they may have asked the SFA about what they did or didn’t know regarding the goings on down Govan way.
That being there are three types of information notice
HMRC may issue three types of information notice:
a notice served on the taxpayer to ‘check’ their ‘tax position’ (para 1);a notice served on a third party to check another’s tax position (para 2); anda notice served on a third party in respect of a person or persons whose identity is unknown (para 5).
The CEO of the third party, possibly, being asked questions at that time was Gordon Smith.
WOTTPI
SEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 16:17
——
Knowing Mr Mac Giolla Bháin he doesn’t ask questions that he doesn’t already know the answers to. This should get interesting.
I have to admit from last night I still feel low. Now I know what it feels like to be Hamilton on the end of a pasting. Funnily enough I didn’t feel so bad after the Barca. humping last year. But we go on.
Thanks to Paddy for his song, I had a wee cry through it.
Love you all.
GIOVANNISEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 16:33
You would hope it will get interesting but we have all been dissapointed many times before.
I still think there is a long way to go on this one.
The whole point is that all these issues could easily be nipped in the bud if the footballing authorities just practiced the openness and transparency they keep taking about.
WOTTPI
The whole point is that all these issues could easily be nipped in the bud if the footballing authorities just practiced the openness and transparency they keep taking about.
what they are talking about is transparency from now(2017)they don’t want to talk about previous years
I had a thought at work today. Now before you stop reading, you’ll be pleased to know it’s got nothing to do with the last thought I had, which I wrote about on here last night, so you can come out from behind the sofa!
I was thinking about Stewart Regan’s statement that the SFA have referred the matter of the granting of Rangers UEFA license in 2011 to the compliance officer in the light of discrepancies between information divulged by two former Rangers directors during the Craig Whyte trial when compared to information supplied at the time of the licence application.
The potential reasons for the SFA taking such action have already been discussed on here, with the consensus being that it would be to suit their own nefarious agenda rather than for any reason linked to integrity.
However, if Regan & Co have opened the door to retrospective action being taken in the light of information obtained via official sources such as courts of law, commissions and inquiries, he can hardly avoid referring a multitude of other cases to the compliance officer for a variety of offences committed in recent years by Rangers officials, offences which were revealed by such as Heidi Poon and her colleagues, not to mention a procession of lawyers and judges.
I’m thinking for example of Rangers denial of the existence of certain important documents. I’m thinking of the City of London Police searching the Ibrox filing cabinets as part of a completely separate inquiry and turning up said ‘non-existent’ documents. I’m thinking of delays, evasion, obfuscation and indeed non-compliance in the supplying of documents, despite statutory demands for them by an array of official bodies.
Nobody has ever been held to account by the football authorities for these and other serious matters.
No doubt Regan would trot out some lame excuse about being unable to punish Oldco, but that misses the point that many of those responsible for the running/ruining of the old club are current board members of TRFC and RIFC.
HIGHLANDERSEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 18:18
There have been so many UK and football laws broken by Rangers, that we know about, I find it hard to imagine there are none that we don’t know about. I also find it hard to imagine that no laws have been broken in the cover-up by those wishing to prevent the various scams from being discovered and/or investigated. One football law that must have been broken by all those involved, repeatedly, involves ‘acting in good faith, at all times’. I’m sure that law must cover the games governors too!
Providing false information, lying, to enable any business to gain a commercial advantage, and a potentially highly profitable income source, that rightly belongs to a rival must surely be a fraudulent act, and not just a broken football law; as must also be the facilitating of that act, or be viewed, at the very least, as gross incompetence!
HIGHLANDERSEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 18:18
There is enough in the public domain over the past few years which strongly indicates that the SFA have many questions to answer over this matter in addition to Rangers. For this observer though there is zero chance the Compliance Officer will be looking inwards during his investigation, which makes it all rather pointless. The indications already are the SFA are simply asking ‘were we misled’ when other information suggests they may have known fine well and were not misled at all. Whatever outcome there is to this I am confident nothing will happen to new Rangers due to ‘legal advice given’, and nothing can happen to old Rangers anyway. I am also confident there will not be a single apology to the clubs who missed out.
JINGSO.JIMSIESEPTEMBER 12, 2017 at 11:08 33 0 Rate This
In the past few days, I’ve read the following (slightly paraphrased) from Mr. Regan:
‘The LNS Commission was SPL/SPFL led. If there is new evidence, it’s up to the SPL to request LNS to revisit/reconsider.’
‘We haven’t had any new information raised with us by member clubs. If they have new information or evidence they feels falls into our jurisdiction then we will deal with that.’
Does Mr. Regan live in a vacuum?
Both the Supreme Court BTC findings & the Craig Whyte trial put new evidence into the public domain. Is he really saying that unless facts are presented to governing bodies on the correct form, signed & dated twice, & then witnessed by a W.S., then that information is not acceptable/available/credible to them?
Proactive, Stewie, not reactive…
Frankly, the CEO of the SFA is playing Jenga with Scottish football.
He thinks he has a steady hand. I’m not so sure.
———————–
Q Do you think we will ever draw a line under this?
A I think it would be really difficult to convince those who believe in conspiracies that there isn’t a conspiracy at play.
————–
We have made decisions on all the key areas and the one area we feel is still in need of further consideration is from comments made in the Craig whyte trial relating to the licensing decision of 2011. That has been referred to the compliance officer and is now a live case.
———-
A question i would like to ask Mr Regan is… Did the people find it difficult to convince you, or did you put them down as Conspiracy theorists that the licensing decision of 2011.that the club from ibrox should never have been granted a licence, were just those who believe in conspiracies up until comments made at the Craig whyte trial?
And if you did? have these Conspiracy theorists proved you wrong that now further consideration from comments made in the Craig whyte trial relating to the licensing decision of 2011. Have been referred to the compliance officer and is now a live case.
I would hope the boy who ran on to the pitch last night will be feeling terrible today. What on earth came into his mind to do that?
He wept in court. Actor after actor will you that to turn on the tears is the most difficult thing to do. Just lets suppose he had true remorse. He expressed sorrow for the guy who punched him on the way out.
Maybe he is not the animal people are turning him out to be with punishments I couldn’t repeat on here.
Somewhere in the Bible it says something like Forgive or be not Forgiven.
He was being an idiot. Lets leave it at that.
GiovanniSeptember 13, 2017 at 16:33
‘….Knowing Mr Mac Giolla Bháin he doesn’t ask questions that he doesn’t already know the answers to….’
__________
But he also asks questions looking for answers!
Which is something that our BBC journalists ,Tom English and Chris McLaughlin, seem not to be interested in doing.
McLaughlin tweets yesterday about ‘the noise my opinion would create wouldn’t be worth it”
And English finishes his online piece of the 10th ” …If nothing untoward went on, then why not throw open the files?
That’s a question that will be asked for as long as this story rumbles…..”
Neither gentleman appears to have any understanding that ,as journalists, their job is to get down and dirty and find answers, not to ponce about and merely, like everyday tweeters and bloggers ‘comment’ on what alleged lying abusers of office try to pass off as truth!
There are serious allegations against those who at particular points of time ( how far back may be anybody’s guess) are suspected of corrupting the Administration of our Sport.
We need to know whether any of the many allegations are true.
The refusal by those against whom allegations may be being made ,openly or implicitly, to let their actions be objectively and forensically reviewed and examined by an independent body stands as an obstacle to finding the truth.
Nothing to do with ‘satisfying’ people.
To any self-respecting journalists that refusal should not merely be ‘reported’ but be seen to present a gut-felt challenge to their personal integrity, and as imposing a moral duty on them to dig,dig, dig and harass and campaign until the Truth be revealed.
None of us is an idiot.
We know that it is possible, if not very probable [ I think we would have had ‘transparency’ if there had been nothing to hide and possible jail sentences to be avoided!] that the hands of all involved in :-
granting the UEFA licence
constructing the ridiculous 5-way Agreement
agreeing to allow a new club to claim to be an entirely different and historically cheating club(which still exists in the lingering limbo of Liquidation)
refusing,against all the evidence, to declare that x number of games ‘won’ by the cheating club now in Liquidation should be forfeit ( to the extent required by the rules that applied to clubs at the material times)
may be clean.
But sure as hell it is not for us or for true and truthful journalists simply to accept, on the word of the ‘secret’ SFA, that that is the case.
jimboSeptember 13, 2017 at 21:17
‘…He wept in court. …’
___________
I haven’t seen any mention of the court appearance. Do you know what he was charged with?
Abit out of Bounds on this ,but what would happen if PSG get found to have broken FFP rules,and they win the CL ? I found this,which could I imagine be a Rangers EBT scenario all over again http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/ The paragraph about sanctions is well interesting Sorry if this has been posted before
JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 23:29
————-
charges of pitch incursion and assault were described as “very serious” during an appearance at Glasgow Sheriff Court on Wednesday.
His sentence was deferred until October 11 and he was released on bail.
There has been a great many media people pressing the point in recent days that a ‘majority’ of clubs do not want a SFA review. So far there has been an official statement from Hibs, and a single Director from each of Aberdeen, Kilmarnock and Ross County has offered a view. Forgive me for being cynical about all of these. The most powerful man at Hibs is a senior figure in the Scottish game who could be the next SFA President. Why would he want that to be prejudiced, and how much does he know from what really happened? The Aberdeen Director has new build houses to sell in West and Central Scotland, and has to try and get planning permission for a new stadium. How much Benefit would publicly demanding a SFA review bring to either of those aspirations? The Kilmarnock Director runs a thriving Waste Management business in South Ayrshire, which is also a hotbed of Rangers support. Would his business be affected by not playing the SFA party line? The Ross County Director runs a multi-million pound North Sea maintenance business. Would demanding a SFA review affect the contracts he gets? I don’t know the answer to any of these, but I believe they are very fair questions to ask.
Despite Regan’s claim of 108 clubs having a say on this it is only the views of the 42 senior clubs which have counted up to this point. That means that five clubs have made an official statement, or had a Director offering a view so far. How can anyone be so sure what the other 37 think, and surely what Rangers think is irrelevant to any fair minded person. If Directors don’t want a review then I’d say they now have a great chance to come out and say so, with the score currently 4-1 in their favour. Then again I simply don’t believe that they don’t all want a review, although I accept I could be wrong. Time will tell and there is only so much a SFA PR lackey can do, but it would be so much easier if we had a media who would be truly willing to do their job and demand answers to some very obvious questions over the SFA role in all of this.
Ps too late to edit.
still awaiting an SFA decision on the fan that ran onto the pitch to attack scott Brown and objects thrown.If the compliance officer has not delt with that yet. what fecking chance of any will the compliance officers report be made public on the licensing decision of 2011.
A wee bird told me last night that the Stewart Regan camp has used the scare tactic that the cost of arranging and holding the type of independent review that some people want would be disastrous to Scottish Football as it would run into millions and millions of real and un-budgeted pound notes with no obvious covering source.
Its partly true because the costs of everything to do with a real review would be significant and The SFA have already spent a fortune trying to keep the cap on this one and can see a huge legal bill on the horizon.
In actual fact the people who would pay would be us the stakeholders and our clubs because there is no appetite to fund this at Holyrood.
That has scared the likes of Aberdeen, Ross County, Dundee United etc who don’t want to see a reduction in their SFA fundings.
Mr Regan and his clique like the new “financial armageddon by review” threat and hope nobody will ever really find out (officially) what really was done and by whom.
Fans in Scotland are the most important funding source for almost every club but you’d never know it.
Regan, most of our chairmen and our media treat us like proverbial mushrooms.
FINLOCHSEPTEMBER 14, 2017 at 09:15
There was a figure of £400k doing the rounds the other day as the cost of a review, although who knows if that’s accurate. Perhaps Celtic should call their bluff and stick £500k in an account and say that’s one obstacle gone!
Despite the blatant need for a thorough review, with proper retrospective punishment and re-setting of results, for me as big an “issue” is the fabrication of continuity.
Not looking to open up the OC/NC debate again, but the upcoming Sevco v Celtic game at Ibrox on Saturday week may open up an opportunity to put this lie to bed for ever.
I am not sure what the Celtic allocation of tickets would be for this game, but say 5,000. Now the match will be promoted and tickets sold on the false pretence of Sevco being the historic cheating club born in 18 canteen rather than the true birthdate of 2012.
My question is, would it be possible for a group, (the more the better) of fans attending/buying these tickets, to go to a “small claims” court and request reimbursement of the ticket price based on the legal status of the club being falsely promoted?
There are many in the game and associated organisations, for whom the lie suits their agenda. However anytime this nonsense has come in front of proper legal scrutiny, it has been shown to be the sham we all know too well.
We know Sevco would not settle out of court as they are desperate for cash and of course are “no surrender peepul”. I’m sure many fans across the country would be only too happy to crowd-fund the challenge. Could this be one option to finally debunk the myth????
Andrew McKinlay is the Director of football governance and regulation at the SFA and took up the post in 2012.
He made an appearance at the pre-determination meeting at Aberdeen City Council chambers and spoke on behalf of Aberdeen FCs application for new stadia and training development.
I thought one comment was interesting. He said ‘I’ve been in this job for five years and my involvement here is a welcome break from….’ or words to that effect.
He’s the new guy in charge of football governance and spoke very elequently as our Chairman Stewart Milne sat behind him.
Mr Milne has come under extreme pressure in the past 20 years for failure to deliver a new stadium.
Professionally, he can’t be seen to fail this time. He can’t afford to rock the boat.
My feeling is that the ‘move on’ statements over the last few years have been due to our stadium plans being in the pipeline, his complete disconnection from reality regarding the liquidation of old Rangers & this complete fantasy of the ‘Blue pound’ nonsense. We’ve done without it for 5 years and we’ve not missed the pittance it brings. 1,500 fans twice a season?
Woopt dee do.
He has too many chums at SFA such as McRae et al who only want to preserve their cosy ways.
It has, and always will be about footballing governance, transparency and justice for me, things it seems many like those on the free loading gravy trains wouldn’t recognise.
This is NOT about title stripping or EBTs. We need a review into the governance of Scottish Football. What they’re afraid of is that they ARE inextricably linked and if the former is addressed then latter will be exposed too.
Anyway, day 4 and still only one official statement from Rod Petrie backing Stewart Regan & the SFA.
On the 21st September the SPFL meet to discuss the SFAs refusal to permit a review.
At this moment in time it’s SPFL & Lawell versus SFA & Petrie.
GV
I wonder how many members’ club matches Messrs. Regan & Doncaster attend as part of their official duties? Anyone have any idea?
(I was going to include Mr. McRae in the above question, but then realised that, as SFA President, he is but a figurehead, which several sources define as ‘a carved wooden decoration’.
)
I note that RTC & Barcabhoy are delving into court evidence of Hector visiting the SFA to inquire about details of the player contracts held by the football authority in June 2009. (Barry Fergusson being the example given but he was surely not the only player they were interested in.) Fergusson’s lodged contract was only showing £450,000 per annum but we know that £2.633m was being channeled through the EBT.
JJ’s site has a nice summary and clear copy of the extract of the court evidence
The implication being that while alarm bells should have been ringing around the corridors of Hampden it appears on the face of it that nothing was done to follow up, in footballing terms, what the hell was going on to cause Hector to be so concerned.
This was at the time of Gordon Smith being CEO, therefore what has Regan got to fear personally from undertaking an investigation?
It wasn’t on his watch, so he can easily say he inherited the situation.
If he is towing the party line then what has the SFA, as a collective body, got to hide?
For an organisation that is so diligent and thorough it can quickly spot the lack of a second signature on a minor club’s player registration form, you would have though they might have been able to sniff out a massive player payment/mis-registration scam when it fell right under their nose!!!
GiorgioVasariSeptember 14, 2017 at 10:58
Anyway, day 4 and still only one official statement from Rod Petrie backing Stewart Regan & the SFA. On the 21st September the SPFL meet to discuss the SFAs refusal to permit a review.
At this moment in time it’s SPFL & Lawell versus SFA & Petrie.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I emailed my club’s COO last week to ask what their “official” position was regarding the review.
So far radio silence has been maintained. He’s a busy man so I’ll leave it until Monday to follow up
wottpiSeptember 14, 2017 at 11:28
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From what RTC, Barca and Phil are hinting at I’m begining to think poor old Gordon may not have been “in the loop” and the matter was dealt with at a lower level with possible assistance from a certain gentleman who likes a good night oot! But I could be wrong.
normanbatesmumfcSeptember 14, 2017 at 10:02
Nice idea, Norman, but one doomed to fail, because the group would have to provide evidence that;
1) they did not know that TRFC was not RFC,
2) they had no way of knowing that TRFC was not RFC,
3) they would not have gone to the match if they knew that TRFC was not RFC.
It would never get far enough for TRFC to argue their case, in fact it wouldn’t get far enough for the group to have to take the day off work to attend the small claims court
Possibly Brechin City supporters might have had a case (a very slim case*), but there’s too much evidence of the debate since for anyone to get such a claim into even the small claims court claiming one of the teams involved was misrepresented.
* In proving they had been misled by false advertising.
JC
“Neither gentleman appears to have any understanding that ,as journalists, their job is to get down and dirty and find answers, not to ponce about and merely, like everyday tweeters and bloggers ‘comment’ on what alleged lying abusers of office try to pass off as truth.”
AllyjamboSeptember 14, 2017 at 12:26
‘…* In proving they had been misled by false advertising.’
_____________
Which reminds me:I’m still waiting ,patiently and with becoming deference ,of course [ although,sadly, I no longer have a forelock to tug] for his Lordship Currie to take up post as Chairman of the Advertising Standards authority.
My letter of 31st July ,addressed to him at the House of Lords, has not yet been acknowledged.I am putting that down, not to the possibility that his Lordship may be somewhat lacking in his appreciation of the conventions of social intercourse, but to the fact that he is not yet fully in post.
He will be so on 1st October, and at some point soon thereafter he will I am sure prove his nobility of soul by replying to me.
upthehoopsSeptember 13, 2017 at 19:06
HIGHLANDERSEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 18:18
I was thinking about Stewart Regan’s statement that the SFA have referred the matter of the granting of Rangers UEFA license in 2011 to the compliance officer in the light of discrepancies between information divulged by two former Rangers directors during the Craig Whyte trial when compared to information supplied at the time of the licence application.
There is enough in the public domain over the past few years which strongly indicates that the SFA have many questions to answer over this matter in addition to Rangers. For this observer though there is zero chance the Compliance Officer will be looking inwards during his investigation, which makes it all rather pointless.
The indications already are the SFA are simply asking ‘were we misled’ when other information suggests they may have known fine well and were not misled at all. Whatever outcome there is to this I am confident nothing will happen to new Rangers due to ‘legal advice given’, and nothing can happen to old Rangers anyway. I am also confident there will not be a single apology to the clubs who missed out.
=========================================
Tony McGlennan was the Compliance Officer in 2011 (and note he was not the UEFA Licencing chap Keith Sharp that UEFA half funded when they introduced Enhanced FFP in 2010). McGlennan has gone and has been replaced by Andrew McKinlay and it will presumably be him who will responsible for the investigation but not necessarily the lead investigator.
Given we are talking about a breach of UEFA FFP, which UEFA know all about having been given details in 2016 by Res12 lawyers, any investigation that does not involve UEFA in some credible way could result in what will then be perceived as another whitewash by Regan, the last thing Scottish Football needs..
Certainly if the focus is only on events in March 2011 and not submissions by RFC in Jun and September 2011 and how SFA dealt with the June submission in a Sept conversation with UEFA, but, just as important, Regan’s handling of the matter from December 2011 to June 2016, when UEFA finally got involved after the Compliance Officer (McKinlay) had contributed to that delay by not addressing the issues and evidence brought to the SFA’s attention from 2014 by Celtic and from July 2015 by Res12 lawyers, a delay that arguably pushed any investigation outside of the 5 year time limit, that UEFA subsequently gave in 2016 as a reason not to investigate.
Fortunately where corruption is involved there is no time limit ( so that an investigation is now underway suggests that deceit was at play) so no reason not to conduct a fully independent investigation over the full period from Oct 2010 to Sept 2016 with UEFA involvement, even if only from a learnings perspective for the SFA and UEFA.
Anything else will be perceived as one more SFA sham by shareholders in Celtic to excuse the SFA taking proper responsibility to treat all clubs properly and equally as required by Articles 5 4. e and f of UEFA FFP. A view that will presumably be held by all Celtic shareholders now and not just those who requisitioned Resolution 12, but hopefully across all clubs with shareholders and supporters who desire some form of SFA accountability.
In short anything but a full independent review over the above period that does not include UEFA in some capacity is not acceptable.
*
Article 5 – Responsibilities
1 The licensor is a UEFA member association and governs the club licensing
system.
4 In particular the licensor must:
e) assess the documentation submitted by the clubs, consider whether this is
appropriate and determine whether each criterion has been met and what
further information, if any, is needed in accordance with Article 10;
f) ensure equal treatment of all clubs applying for a licence and guarantee the
clubs full confidentiality with regard to all information provided during the
licensing process as defined in Article 11;
g) determine whether a licence can be granted.
Encouraging headline in the DR today;
“Scotland on the rise as Gordon Strachan’s side rocket up 15 places in latest FIFA rankings
…
The Scots are up to 43rd from 58th and it’s the latest boost for Scotland as they look to reach the World Cup playoffs with victories over Slovakia and Slovenia next month.
…”
====================================
Except when you consider, for example;
7th Switzerland
13th Wales
20th Northern Ireland
43rd Scotland
====================================
But to be fair, you would still think that Strachan was doing a decent job to “rocket up 15 places” ?
…except when you realise that when Strachan took the job in 2013, the team was ranked… 34th !
[ http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/associations/association=sco/men/index.html ]
Looks like the DR has been ‘Framed’ with some more PR copy/paste boll*x.
JIMBOSEPTEMBER 13, 2017 at 21:17 I would hope the boy who ran on to the pitch last night will be feeling terrible today. What on earth came into his mind to do that?
He wept in court. Actor after actor will you that to turn on the tears is the most difficult thing to do. Just lets suppose he had true remorse. He expressed sorrow for the guy who punched him on the way out.
Maybe he is not the animal people are turning him out to be with punishments I couldn’t repeat on here.
Somewhere in the Bible it says something like Forgive or be not Forgiven.
He was being an idiot. Lets leave it at that.
———————————————————————————
Obviously the Glasgow media do not read the Bible when it comes to clubs outwith the OF. When a Hearts supporter ran onto the pitch at Tynecastle and tried to assault Neil Lennon, the media were up in arms and quick to vilify both supporter and club. Charlie Nicholas even wrote that Hearts should be banned from Europe.
While the action of your idiot on Tuesday night would not have reached the pages of the Scottish media if it wasn’t for UEFA raising the issue and it getting headlined by the English press.
Flywheel
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15533575.SFA_chief_warns_refusal_of_Aberdeen_s_new___50_million_stadium_could_see_games_played_in_central_belt/?ref=rss
I note that people are are conflating Milne’s statement re the review with the potential need to play some Dons home games in the central belt.
It might be a bit of a long shot in terms of a conspiracy theory but what did strike me from the article is the public utterances of the SFA official to the public inquiry into Aberdeen’s new ground.
Is it not disconcerting that such a senior officer in our game cannot even contemplate that in a fair and honest league there may be a set of circumstances that Aberdeen could win the league and qualify for doing battle in the Champions League.
Now we may all think, realistically, that a certain Glasgow based club is a dead cert to win the league for a good few years. However while fans, pundits and journos can express such opinions those charged with running the game should not be voicing such opinions in public and implying that a member club only has a ‘wonderful’ chance of coming second best (or third if they had their way
)
Dismissive and patronizing all in one go – where do they get these numpties from??
It really is the GFA at times!!!
wottpiSeptember 14, 2017 at 17:14
We can be certain that had it been Ibrox in question, McKinlay’s words would have been more along the lines of ‘when Rangers(sic) next(even sic(k)er) play in the Champions League’!
From the DR;
“Rangers clash with Benfica to boast special one off feature
Pedro Caixinha’s side will travel to Canada to face the Portuguese giants at Tim Hortons field for the Eusebio Cup in Hamilton, Ontario…”
===============================================
So, TRFC has another European tie…in Canada ?
That’s innovative.
And good luck to TRFC and hope they manage to qualify for the group stages of the ‘Eusebio Cup’.
Oh dear. A video doing the rounds on Twitter at the Rangers Press Conference yesterday where a Journalist asked Lee Wallace what his thoughts were on the current wrangles over the issues which led to the liquidation of the club. Wallace claimed not to know what the word meant, before the voice of Jim Traynor pops up to state “The club wasn’t liquidated…that’s quite wrong”.
UPTHEHOOPS
SEPTEMBER 14, 2017 at 19:27
==========================
Also lifted from Twitter;
“Abmucker @Abmucker 53m53 minutes ago
Replying to @gibbygibbo1
It’s the 1st rule of liquidation club…. don’t talk about liquidation”
====================================================
That’s a cracker !
https://t.co/ZEJwYkyHgz
13/04/12 DAILY RECORD – “Some Rangers fans believe the club’s history, which would end with liquidation, must be protected but there is a shameful part of that history which they should want to forget and any newco should make it clear a new beginning means exactly that. A new club open to all from the very beginning.” (Jim Traynor)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/jim-traynor-column-rangers-must-1119155
————-
They should be hammered if liquidation is their fate for failing to pay the taxman and other creditors and no fan in his or her right mind should be arguing against further penalties.
The game must have suitable deterrents to prevent others from escaping debts in a similar way.
Oh dear….
Reference Mr Traynor’s intervening at the liquidation question at the press conference, he now can openly state the club was not liquidated in front of all press members present and not a whimper in protest. Absolute power. It is a worry and a concern IMO.
This jim Traynor
13/06/12 – DAILY RECORD – “They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died. They were closed and a newco must start from scratch.” (Jim Traynor)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/james-traynor-spl-will-not-be-able-1129166
The following is a tweet from Barry Anderson, a sports reporter at the Edinburgh Evening News. I responded but went offline soon after, but later found he’d replied to me. It seemed to me that he was deflecting from the cheating issue by making out there are other more, or equally, important matters to be dealt with, and while the matters he mentioned are important, as far as I am concerned, we, or he, can put all the energy we want into demanding these improvements, but there isn’t going to be any more talented players, or coaches, available, because, basically, talent isn’t available on demand. Facilities can be improved, the fan experience can be improved too, because that’s just about bricks and mortar and a little imagination.
However, we can, pretty directly, demand, and put pressure, on football’s authorities to sort themselves, and the game, out. Even if there is no change in the end, the energy used will have, at least, let us all know the level of corruption that exists, and that the SMSM have no desire to see it removed and justice served.
Anyway, here’s what was said.
BA
“If folk want a review as they feel a club cheated, fine. Just put the same energy into improving players, youths, facilities, fan experience”
Me
“Don’t know if you realise it, Barry, but it used to be a function of the media (all areas) to call out cheating, not to deflect from it”
BA
“Maybe see my timeline to avoid misinterpreting things. Not deflecting from cheating at all.”
Me
“Seems to me you are comparing peoples concerns over cheating (and all that goes with it) to totally unrelated problems. 1/2”
Me
“Sport is not sport when people can get away with cheating. Sport is still sport no matter how poor the participants are. 2/2”
Me
“You may not have intended to deflect from cheating, but it certainly looks like you did. Why else mention the two unrelated subjects?”
And there ended the debate, but there was 2 hours between his second and mine, so he’s maybe away out with the wife, as I will be soon, too, so don’t want to discredit him by suggesting he’s ‘run away’ rather than to continue.
They could have asked jim, why did you say this
15/07/12 – DAILY RECORD – “Green bought Rangers and their assets yesterday for £5.5million, just hours after Smith revealed he was spearheading a group to buy the new club.” (Jim Traynor)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/rangers-in-crisis-ibrox-fans-to-snub-1129316
Oh for feck sake jim.
03/09/12 – DAILY RECORD – “McCoist and Green are committed to opposing any move to have history books rewritten even though they accepted they had to begin again as a new concern after Rangers, the club with history, slipped into liquidation and closed. That should mean the titles aren’t really any of their business. But on the other hand, the SPL refused to hand over £2m, which should have gone to Rangers for finishing second last season, pointing out that the club no longer exists.” (Jim Traynor)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/lawyers-set-to-cash-in-as-spl-and-rangers-1299399
Taxi for jim.
18/10/12 – DAILY RECORD – “(Whyte) also added: “What other country in the world would deal with one of their biggest clubs in the way they have and demote them to the Third Division.” Wrong again, Craig. Rangers had to go there because they were a new club starting over. (Jim Traynor)
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/disgraced-ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-1385032
Scottish Football suffered enough let us all move on and also have a wee kick at Peter Lawwell. Ffs, really ffs
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/902045555?-11344:801:0
sorry Mods just went a bit jim traynor there
ALLYJAMBOSEPTEMBER 14, 2017 at 20:22
Like Mr Anderson I to help out three times a week with boys football. I (hopefully) devote my time to helping boys play football to the best of their ability, while at the same time try to instill a healthy attitude to good sportsmanship and fair play.
The two things are not mutually exclusive.
Maybe Mr Anderson could rethink his ideas and question if the amount of effort the SFA and others have put into avoiding resolving the Rangers had been put into addressing our poor performance at international and European competitions and getting on with long term development plans we would all see the benefits.
ALLYJAMBOSEPTEMBER 14, 2017 at 20:22
BA“If folk want a review as they feel a club cheated, fine. Just put the same energy into improving players, youths, facilities, fan experience”
————
By improving players, would that include giving them an education on what the word Liquidation means? https://t.co/ZEJwYkyHgz
Added a wee Twitter feed just before the comments editor. We have a big Twitter presence nowadays and it seems appropriate that you guys should be aware of what we are doing over there.
Well guys I am always negative about most things surrounding the club from ibrox even though my wife has strong ties there because of her aunt and events surrounding the disaster but sometimes we all need a wee bit of reminding that they are just people who love their club just like everyone else.
The singing children of Africa arrived in Scotland last night for a 6 week tour and they spent this evening over at ibrox getting a wee tour and doing a bit of singing organised through a guy called Simon Leslie so from myself thank you to him for doing this and his fund raising over the last few weeks this is the same guy who supplied the strips and trainers that my wife took over in april for the kids here is a wee link so you can listen to the kids.
https://www.facebook.com/EmmaLesliex/videos/1813007288727104/
Mods if not appropriate you can remove many thanks.
Mr Anderson my son went to play for his under 12s today he said the big guy next door got a game with his team, i said to him is he not 16, he said whit do you know da the games changed.
Press Conferences are going to be a breeze from now.
“So, Brendan, what are your views on the defeat the other night?”
“I’ve not got a clue what that word means and I wouldn’t know about anything to do with the situation that you’re talking about. Sorry.”
Voice Off (Possibly Interstellar PR):
“Incidentally, the club was not defeated. That’s quite wrong. And there’s no point in asking questions about that.”
And that’ll be the end of that.
Unless one club is treated differently.
Does anyone know who it was that asked an honest question/peddled a vile falsehood?
I’ve seen Keefs name being mentioned and it sounds like him but I thought he was banned from…well, everywhere. He’s certainly banned from my house.
Are we really at the stage that a guy from a paper which printed the fact that a club died is being told by the guy who wrote in the same paper that the club died that the club didn’t die?
I think we are now officially Through The Looking Sash.
I fail to understand how, over a ten year period, nobody involved in the SFA player registration process (Bryson S ?) could not spot that the galacticos being employed by Rangers must have been on considerably less wages than their Celtic equivalents and possibly even less than the mere mortals employed by other SPL teams.
Every year for ten years and nobody noticed this glaring anomaly? Surely someone would ask what additional incentive was being offered. Although I’ve never worked for such an illustrious organisation I doubt that a world class breakfast would be enough to sway me.
Yet we are lead to believe, from the evidence submitted to the LNS commission, that they only became aware of this when Rangers hit the financial buffers.
Now I realise, that being a mere Stenny supporter, that I am not au fait with the complexities of player registration, but come on!
GIOVANNISEPTEMBER 15, 2017 at 09:08
As discussed the other day, the SFA are quick enough to spot the lack of signatures on registration forms and quick enough to cross check registrations with submitted team lines. They appear able to sniff out discrepancies at 100 yards.
I just had to apologies to a client for an invoice that was issued which had an extra 0 in the total. Oops!
Therefore we all make admin mistakes but when someone sees figures that don’t make any sense or are out of line with what one would normally expect then usually alarm bells ring and question are asked.
To my mind it is a case of incompetence or collusion or both.
On the other hand there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation but, if so, why not just put it out there and end any potential idle speculation.
I think after what Traynor stated if i was a creditor i would be looking to the courts for redress of this farce. This causes nothing but frustration to people who lost money out of this bullshit.
When players are made to look stupid you have to question the medias stance in allowing this.This guy will be ridiculed and laughed at for this as will Traynor and blame for allowing encouraging the pretence is the inadequacy shown by the SFA.
So Mr Traynor, this was a waste of time?
Maybe it’s just me.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-ebt-ruling-reviewed-spfl-10861966
Rangers EBT ruling will be reviewed by the SPFL reveals Rod Petrie
The Hibernian chairman made the announcement at Hampden today as the row rumbles on.
Hibs chairman Rod Petrie has revealed the SPFL will hold a review of Rangers ’ use of EBTS from 2001 to 2010.
The league’s governing body said in the immediate aftermath of the Supreme Court ruling where ‘oldco’ lost its appeal in the Big Tax Case they would ‘consider any implications’.
==================================================
From the Hibs statement.
“The SPFL – whilst accepting that no additional sanctions can be retrospectively applied – wants an independent review into how the issue was handled. The SFA has referred a specific aspect to its compliance officer. For all of these reasons, we also do not support the letter from the SPFL calling for a further independent review.”
==================================================
I’ll finish with this
“While we know this is a divisive issue that will never be resolved to the satisfaction of all supporters, we cannot allow it to divert us from the future or to keep us mired in the past.” – The Hibs Board.
“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana.
There’s an interesting opinion piece in the Scotsman; written by Stephen McIlkenny:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/opinion-stephen-mcilkenny-on-why-sfa-review-is-necessary-for-real-change-1-4561256
Jingso.JimsieSeptember 15, 2017 at 15:45
It is well worth a read
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/opinion-stephen-mcilkenny-on-why-sfa-review-is-necessary-for-real-change-1-4561256
At last someone on msm realising the real issues at play. This bit made me smile:
“In their statement, the SFA said that one of the “key learnings” that has been addressed in the last six years has been the “bolstering the duty of good faith”. The reaction of many fans suggests that faith in the integrity of the SFA may be in short supply. ”
What that means is we have realised that our process are as useless as a chocolate teapot if a club lies .
Does it also mean the punishment for being caught out will from now on be significant deterrent or that we will either use or strengthen existing power to stop the cheating bassas lying in the first place?
For the record RFC have never been charged with failing to act with the utmost good faith to other clubs.
If such an investigation had taken place it would have concluded as above statement.
Here’s a radical suggestion – for the SFA anyway – to try and address fans’ concerns about the competence and integrity of the Hampden hierarchy.
Regan supposedly invited assorted hacks to Hampden recently for a Q&A session.
[Not sure if there really was an ‘open’ floor, and mibbees more of a copy/paste job…?]
But if Regan is desperate to suppress calls for an independent review, then why doesn’t he attempt to stage a Q&A session…with the fans, [a.k.a. the paying customers !]
It could even be in the form of submitted, written questions, so Regan would have the time to construct his carefully worded answers.
He won’t answer all the questions of course, but he will get a chance to answer directly to the fans, and at the very least have it confirmed to him where the fans are coming from – and why they are just not ‘moving on’ anytime soon.
I know… the SFA listening to customers? It’s a crazy idea!
Lee Wallace: Pundits are tougher on Pedro Caixinha than Brendan Rodgers
Must have asked what comes after liquidation
“Poll: Should there be an independent review of the SFA?”
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/poll-should-there-be-an-independent-review-of-the-sfa-1-4561529
Just my septuagenarian resistance , I suppose, but I just canny be arsed wi’ Twitter!
I clicked on the link and now can’t get rid of the big black box on the screen, with un-argued statements about things that when I’m on the blog I’m not interested in!
Boris feckin Johnston lying? We have our own liars to contend with!
I was hoping someone would tell me how to get that wee twitter feed thingy so that I can come out of it! The big black square with the tweets about boris is still there ,and there seems to be nothing to click on that would get me back to just the blog posts!
What am I missing (apart from IT savvy?)
Anybody?
Mathew Lindsay in The Herald, arguing the case for selling the naming rights of Ibrox stadium to bring in some much needed money:
“Of course, taking that course of action at a newly-built stadium with no history has long been considered acceptable in football. In fact, it is unheard of not to. Doing so at a traditional ground, on the other hand, is regarded as being nothing short of sacrilegious.”
Now if he had halted there, fine and good, fans want to hold on to the traditional name and he has made that point. But he then goes on to say:
“Rangers have been based at Ibrox since 1899 and have won the vast majority of their world record 54 league titles, 27 League Cups and 33 Scottish Cups while playing there.”
Was that really necessary? Did it add to his argument? Or was it just another excuse to push the continuity myth? These ‘journalists’ always seem to find a way to slip it in.
Maybe he was just showing support for Traynor’s hissy fit.
John Clark, sorry can’t help with your twitter problem. The tweets appear at the end of the comments for me and don’t really cause a problem.
At the top of the page, there is a drop down menu with options ‘contact admin’ and ‘contact support’. Providing you can still access that, maybe you could try that. Failing that, here is the main contact routes.
sfm@sfm.scot
0141-459-1869
Good luck.
Lindsay is just doing his bit to propagate the Big Lie,Jimbo.
It’s ‘de rigueur’ to do so in this wee country if you want to be accepted in Scottish media and football circles.
We should be very glad that we have journalists of such integrity.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/poll-should-there-be-an-independent-review-of-the-sfa-1-4561529
Just had a look back at the Scotsman’s poll from yesterday. Should there be a review into the SFA?
Now sitting at 94% yes. 1688 votes. Which I would imagine for a publication like The Scotsman is pretty good.
Lindsay’s Scotsman article includes the line “Just three short years later the club was put into liquidation with estimated debts of £134 million.”
How he can go on to contradict that fact throughout the remainder of the article, only he knows.
Here’s a question for Mr Lindsay. How can a club conceivably ‘continue’ after it has been put in liquidation? Your report is akin to attending the funeral of Mr Bloggs on Monday and offering condolences to his family, then recounting how you were speaking to Mr Bloggs on Tuesday and remarking how well he looked.
Sorry, my previous post should say Herald instead of Scotsman. Doh!
jimboSeptember 16, 2017 at 09:51
Was that really necessary? Did it add to his argument? Or was it just another excuse to push the continuity myth? These ‘journalists’ always seem to find a way to slip it in.
___________________________
Of course it was, Jimbo, it is what he gets paid for – TRFC’s PR! In fact, a better question would have been, ‘was the article necessary?’…as anything more than an excuse to get the message across that you query the necessity of.
So, as a piece of PR, the answer is yes. As a piece of journalism, a resounding NO!
HighlanderSeptember 16, 2017 at 10:32
Lindsay’s Scotsman article includes the line “Just three short years later the club was put into liquidation with estimated debts of £134 million.”How he can go on to contradict that fact throughout the remainder of the article, only he knows.Here’s a question for Mr Lindsay. How can a club conceivably ‘continue’ after it has been put in liquidation? Your report is akin to attending the funeral of Mr Bloggs on Monday and offering condolences to his family, then recounting how you were speaking to Mr Bloggs on Tuesday and remarking how well he looked.
____________________
It is symptomatic of, and also a good example of, just how little these men understand about what happened at Rangers. Not necessarily because they are stupid, but because they are sticking to the agenda and not thinking too hard about the truth.
I suppose there will be one or two who have given it intelligent thought, and decided to go with the required narrative for the sake of their job and family.
Can I ask yourself or Jimbo, was there any justification given for this article, such as news/rumours that TRFC were negotiating with a company to rename Ibrox? Or is it just a completely random idea as a vehicle for liquidation denial? Despite the fact that, in this case, the article included the fact that liquidation happened!
JIMBOSEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 09:51 Mathew Lindsay in The Herald, arguing the case for selling the naming rights of Ibrox stadium to bring in some much needed money:
—————————————————————————————————-
i recall Jimbo that selling the naming rights to Uncle Mick drew in the grand total of a quid, before he decided it was a quid wasted.
I would suggest that for a stadium under ownership dispute, it wouldn’t be a good idea to hand over much more than that…..And only if you can afford to write it off.
I’ll bid £2 if they will change the name to “The Hide-out”
AJ, there are no ‘rumours’ mentioned in his piece, it seems it was brought on by the renaming of Firhill this week. He (ML) puts it forward as a great idea. Of course he could be putting it out there on behalf of the board at Ibrox, to test the water, to soften the idea up.
“Matthew Lindsay: Rangers can boost their recovery and close the gap on Celtic – by selling the Ibrox naming rights”
So there is the justification for you. To close the gap on Celtic. What about all these multi million pound repairs needed at Ibrox? The need for soft loans to keep going? No the priority is closing the gap. Mathew sounds like the ideal candidate for a seat on the board at Ibrox. It could almost be David Murray’s opinion.
Nothing has been learned.
AJ, Lindsay suggests it would make sense for Rangers to follow Partick Thistle’s lead by finding someone to sponsor the stadium in the future, but doesn’t mention any company being interested at present. Firhill will be known as the Energy Check Stadium at Firhill apparently.
Perhaps Rangers could link up with US film studios and Ibrox would become the City of the Living Dead stadium in future.
Highlander, AJ,
Contradictions? They all tend to tie themselves in knots nowadays when dealing with liquidation.
Here are some quotes by the movers and shakers back in 2012 when liquidation and a new club was a given. Be warned, it’s a long read, there are about 70 (yes seventy) quotes!
It’s breath taking the u turns that have been made.
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/traynor-co-liars-damned-by-their-own-words/