The Vice Closes

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The Vice Closes

News in The Times of Celtic’s letter to Stewart Regan regarding that club’s wish for a Judicial Review into the SFA’s handing of the Rangers EBT crisis increases the pressure on Regan considerably.

The SFA Chief Executive’s ill-advised spat with Pie and Bovril editor David McDonald this week may even be a sign he is devolving, and at least it demonstrates that, despite Twitter disaster after Twitter disaster, Regan doesn’t learn readily from his mistakes.

Also, it appears from the contents of Celtic’s letter that their target in terms of a Judicial Review has been the SFA, and not the SPFL, all along. That chimes with developments as I understand them elsewhere in this process.

Even though it now appears that Celtic and a fan group are seeking a Judicial Review it is by no means certain that it will ever happen.

Having a sound legal basis for it, obtaining standing, and having a reasonable chance of victory are all variables in the equation, and each has to be weighed carefully before progress can be made.

Having said that, if the reason any Judicial Review fails is because of that lawyer-speak we have been subjected to of late, the SFA may yet come to believe that hiding behind legalese is neither in football’s best interests, nor in the interests of the individuals at the SFA who are under fire.

The bottom line as they, is this;

Rangers did acquire an unfair advantage over others by their use of EBTs. The SPL themselves were flabbergasted when Sandy Bryson proclaimed his eponymous ‘imperfectly registered’ doctrine. They all know – everyone in every board room in the country, in every SFA department, in every SPFL office – that cheating took place.

In fact and in spirit.

The jaws of the vice are tightening as we speak. The fans group who are building a case for a Judicial Review give its handle a wee turn every day, and the leak of the Celtic letter to Regan reduces his wiggle room even further.

It is surely now just a matter of time before this ridiculous and infamous chapter in Scotland’s football history is dealt with.

Of course people will accuse anyone who is a Celtic fan, or an Aberdeen fan, or a Dundee United fan (clubs whose rivalry with Rangers is keenest) of partisanship in this affair. That is mere deflection and bears no scrutiny whatsoever.

As a Celtic fan myself, I can’t deny that I am angry at what took place between (at least) 2000 and 2009, but does that mean that as a Celtic fan I have to recuse myself from having an opinion?

And as a former employee of the club, am I excluded from any conversation about the integrity of our game because the club at the centre of the scandal is Rangers? Pull the other one.

SFM, and the wider fans’ movement has been consistently appalled by this sorry chapter over the last six years, but is no kangaroo court. We are not asking for conclusions to be drawn without due process. We see unexplained regulatory anomalies in the processes at Ibrox and Hampden which have never to our knowledge been addressed. We simply wish that they should be.

Further, if my club was at the heart of this nonsense, I think I’d be incandescent with rage that they had allowed me to revel in the joy of winning all those trophies, only to have the achievements cheapened and nullified by their mismanagement. I would regard that as the ultimate betrayal (and Celtic fans can give you a list of club betrayals as long as Mao’s march).

I’d be thinking that those same business practices that apparently had given us so much, had actually caused to fail catastrophically. Having taken delight in the honours, I would have to accept the consequences too.

The SFA, by their corrupt approach to the demise of Rangers, have denied Rangers fans the catharsis that they could benefit from. In fact the authorities’ refusal to deal with the situation in terms of their own rules it has fostered a siege mentality to exist at Ibrox.

This in turn has enabled a series of charlatans, including the current board, to drive the bus in the direction of a brick wall for the last five years.

After the phenomenally successful share issue (something that can’t happen again whilst King is in charge for regulatory reasons), the new Rangers were given seed capital which should have flowered by now with the regular watering of their huge fan base. That £22m, which should have seen the club competing at the top by now has gone, and the potential which existed in 2012 has been diminished severely.

It’s no fun being a fan of Scottish football in the midst of this. But we make a fundamental error if we think that Rangers fans are enjoying it. They are victims in this too, and they have been defrauded by the Murray-era shenanigans, and the circus performers who have been on the scene since then – every bit as much as the rest of us.

The honourable thing (no laughing at the back) for the SFA to do would be to agree to Celtic’s request for a Judicial Review.

If the pressure is turned up another notch or three on the SFA, then maybe we will all get closure, and perhaps finally we can move on.

About the author

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Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

875 Comments so far

Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on12:09 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Could have been an article about anything.  The renaming of ibrox part dropped in just to test the water and get the fealers out

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on12:44 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Their club to bring in millions of pounds of fresh revenue from a blue chip multinational company to ease their money worries?
—————-
when the cold shoulder drops down ibrox way no blue chip multinational company will touch them with a barge pole.Even if a company was willing to do business the money would only ease the amount of loans needed

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on1:19 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Cluster OneSeptember 16, 2017 at 12:09

0606

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on1:25 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Re stadium naming rights….Is this new revenue stream a substitute for the cancellation of, “The road to Europa” DVD…….They could have called it, “The floppy disc”.  12  

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on1:49 pm - Sep 16, 2017


HighlanderSeptember 16, 2017 at 11:38   
AJ, Lindsay suggests it would make sense for Rangers to follow Partick Thistle’s lead by finding someone to sponsor the stadium in the future, but doesn’t mention any company being interested at present. Firhill will be known as the Energy Check Stadium at Firhill apparently.Perhaps Rangers could link up with US film studios and Ibrox would become the City of the Living Dead stadium in future.
________________

Amazing, isn’t it, how everything has to be about TRFC (or ‘Rangers’ as they misleadingly call them), for the same could be said for every other club in Scotland (and further afield), for they all need that extra bit of cash, but, like the reality at TRFC (if there is one), it’s not about chasing/catching up with Celtic, it’s about paying the bills. Even Celtic would benefit from the revenue that ‘renaming’ Celtic Park would bring, and they’d make a hell of a lot more from it than Ibrox would, though even that wouldn’t help them much in their own chase (of Europe’s big boys).

In PR terms, it’s debatable whether or not this tactic of pushing something sure to upset the target audience is a good move, for it’s not something likely to please the bears, so there must be something behind it, and it’s most likely to be what has already been suggested here – to test the water. I suspect, though, that that test will be a bit more positive than it would have been, even just six months ago, for it must be beginning to dawn on them that they have much bigger problems than the mere name of their stadium!

Of course, they do have problems that make any revenue from this renaming of Ibrox in that they carry so much baggage and they are vastly overshadowed by Celtic, with virtually no European exposure, for even though non-authorised adverts are not allowed in European competitions, with little talk of Rangers throughout Europe, there can be little value for a major, and thus cash rich, stadium sponsor.

Again, however much any deal would be hyped up by the SMSM, a none too mega deal would just be further humiliation for the bears.

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jimboPosted on2:28 pm - Sep 16, 2017


I wouldn’t like my club’s stadium to have another name just for the sake of a million or two extra income.  James Forrest covered the finances of it quite well at lunchtime.  The Ibrox club would get a pittance. 

However what I will say is that if I was at a smaller club like PT where even 250k pa would make a real difference then I could live with that.  The Jags fans will no doubt continue to call it Firhill.  It’s only important in media mentions, programmes etc.

Funnily enough as I was growing up and until relatively recently, every one I know called our ground ‘Parkhead’.  I think Celtic Park only came into the common parlance in the past twenty years.  I might be wrong.  Maybe people who lived in Parkhead had another name for it! 02

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jimboPosted on2:47 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Just heard some stats from Tom English there.  Ave. wage at Ross County £900 per week.  Celtic £13000 per week.  PSG (last season before Neymar) £86000 pw.

That’s scary!  The difference between Celtic & RC is worse than the diff. between Celtic & PSG.

Having said that, I wish I was on £900 pw!

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on3:44 pm - Sep 16, 2017


JIMBOSEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 14:28
Funnily enough as I was growing up and until relatively recently, every one I know called our ground ‘Parkhead’.  I think Celtic Park only came into the common parlance in the past twenty years.  I might be wrong.  Maybe people who lived in Parkhead had another name for it!
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Err the road.
The Grun.
And yes…. Parkhead

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theredpillPosted on5:43 pm - Sep 16, 2017


The Dam is leaking.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1572828/hibs-fans-banner-easter-road-rangers-row-motherwell/

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on6:16 pm - Sep 16, 2017


THEREDPILLSEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 17:43  
The Dam is leaking.https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1572828/hibs-fans-banner-easter-road-rangers-row-motherwell/
_______________

Well done to those Hibs supporters, though I doubt Petrie will bat an eyelid over it, he is so far out of sinc with the Hibs support. Interesting wee bit at the end of the rather short report saying TRFC have written to SFA to complain over the SPFL demands for a review, couched in such a way as to suggest it is they, TRFC, who would be under investigation.

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ZilchPosted on6:38 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Listening to the on-going coverage of fall out from the so-called fan running onto the pitch and trying to assault a PSG player…
Like the huge numbers of fans at the stadium on Tuesday that made it clear what they thought of the idiot’s actions, I am getting increasingly scunnered with fans and groups of fans taking actions that leave the club picking up bills and damaging our reputation.
Being part of a crowd should not give you a free pass to act like a clown and damage the club you profess to love.
At this point I would have no problem whatsoever with the club pursuing the individual for damages to help cover the fine that is inevitably coming our way from UEFA. IMO the guy has breached the T&Cs of entering the stadium and could well be liable as a result.
So far so good (bad).
At the same time, I have to mention the coverage of this issue.
It is absolutely legitimate to have the on-going speculation about what the punishment from UEFA will be. Fair does.
Of course, you do have to wonder about the lack of coverage of the extended sectarian singing that took place at Firhill last night? Here we are talking about thousands of idiots breaking the laws of the sport and of the land. In this case there is clear impunity as these thousands of individuals are hiding in plain sight in a crowd.
The big difference between the two is obvious. In one case, UEFA can be relied upon to strictly apply the laws of the sport, at least as far as this sort of situation goes.
In the case of the sectarian Rangers fans, you can equally be sure that there will be absolutely no action taken whatsoever by either the SPFL or the SFA. Therefore there is no news to report.
I am acutely conscious that this might come across as whataboutery.
I don’t intend it to be that.
Our UEFA punishment is coming and the clown that ran onto the pitch has ensured that we deserve it. That this is just one of a long litany of fines and punishments from UEFA means we really need to start directing some of the pain onto the actual perpetrators – IMO.
It is a real shame – and I mean it is shaming – that our football authorities are too cowardly and corrupt to take the same sort of action to rid us of the persistent sectarian bile of the Rangers support.
Maybe we could see other clubs raise a complaint with the relevant authorities? Thousands of fans were in breach of the T&Cs last night. Genuine question –  could they refuse to sell tickets to Rangers and their fans?
What value the blue pound?

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ZilchPosted on6:45 pm - Sep 16, 2017


PS. Well done the Hibs fans. Petrie must go.

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jimboPosted on7:08 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Unless something dramatic happens between now and the season’s end, I wouldn’t like to be in Milne’s nor Petrie’s position when it comes to season book renewal time next year.  If I were either of them I’d get out beforehand or climb down.

Of course Petrie is up to his neck in it. So more chance of a sacking.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on8:08 pm - Sep 16, 2017


ZILCHSEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 18:38
Our UEFA punishment is coming and the clown that ran onto the pitch has ensured that we deserve it.what the punishment from UEFA will be. Who knows but no complaints rules are rules. The punishment may stop it happening again.
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In the case of the sectarian Rangers fans, you can equally be sure that there will be absolutely no action taken whatsoever by either the SPFL or the SFA. Therefore there is no news to report.
———–
When a fan ran onto the ibrox pitch to have a go at scott Brown and in the same game objects were thrown at celtic players no punishments have came down on the ibrox club from the SFA or the SPFL.As there was no punishment handed down what is to stop it happening again next week,We know the sectarian singing will be there for all to hear as the SFA and the SPFL still don’t act to stop it.

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HighlanderPosted on8:11 pm - Sep 16, 2017


ZILCH
SEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 18:38

Zilch, I agree with every single word and sentiment of your commendable post.

However, in the interests of balance, I’m obliged to mention the equally vile and equally sectarian chants and songs evident at each away game played by Celtic every second week. It’s not for you or I to decide what amounts to merely an ‘Irish folk ballad’ and what constitutes support for Irish Republican terrorist organisations but I would suggest that neither are appropriate in the setting of a sporting contest, Scottish or otherwise. 

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ZilchPosted on8:28 pm - Sep 16, 2017


Cluster One – Could not agree more.

Highlander – the list of proscribed songs is well established. Singing in direct support of the IRA is proscribed and I have no time for ninety minute republicans. That is not the same as denying us the right to express Irish heritage. You are sailing pretty close to the wind in your post by appearing to conflate the two. Perhaps I am misreading you?

In either case, I would say there is a significant difference between what you describe and wanting to wade in the blood of people murdered for their religion – national identity and culture are OK with me, political identity is more controversial and should probably have minimal / no role at a sporting event (though we can all look at examples where it was appropriate – apartheid??).

Naked sectarian hatred? Sorry. It is not equivalent. I accept you may not agree.

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AmazinglessPosted on8:42 pm - Sep 16, 2017


TheRedPill:
The Dam is leaking.https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1572828/hibs-fans-banner-easter-road-rangers-row-motherwell/

……………………………………………………………..

Well done and thank you to those Hibernian fans. More of this, please.
 
 
At a guess, they will feel just as sorely let down, marginalised and dismissed by Rod Petrie as the seeming majority of Aberdeen fans (online) seem to feel about Stewart Milne and his latest mouth-disasters.
 
Petrie and Milne have at least shown their colours (blue all the way, it seems), and may be judged accordingly. And it now becomes possible to judge both men as being part of the problem, not part of the solution.

In asking us to look away from those years of manifest cheating, they simply disgrace  themselves. 
 
This may be fondly forgiving self-delusion, nothing more, but it seems impossible to imagine that Aberdeen’s former vice-chairman, Chris Anderson, would have debased himself or his club this way.
 

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jimboPosted on8:45 pm - Sep 16, 2017


I blame Dundee  FC. I listened (or watched, can’t remember) to their match recently and they were singing ‘ Up with the Bonnets of Bonnie Dundee’

A pure Jacobite song!  (I love it).

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jimboPosted on9:08 pm - Sep 16, 2017


This is to keep everyone happy.  The Irish Rovers singing Bonnie Dundee.  So no complaints please.  No reporting me for offensive behaviour at football blogs! 0204

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HighlanderPosted on9:31 pm - Sep 16, 2017


ZILCH
SEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 20:28

Highlander – the list of proscribed songs is well established. Singing in direct support of the IRA is proscribed and I have no time for ninety minute republicans.

Many innocent Rangers fans would argue their case along similar lines. The fact is that a sizeable number of Celtic fans participate in such proscribed songs at away venues, and that’s without going into pitch invasions and pyrotechnics etc.

I recognise that every club has its fair share of fruitloops and the two clubs with the largest support will therefore have more examples of pondlife on display than the rest of us.

I can assure you I have no affiliation or liking for either of the two clubs to have played out of Ibrox, but lets keep a semblance of balance.

 

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wottpiPosted on9:49 pm - Sep 16, 2017


ZILCHSEPTEMBER 16, 2017 at 18:38
As implied the other day it isn’t a Celtic Rangers thing.
Hibs faced no punishment for fans being on the pitch at the cup final.
Hearts had no punishment for the fan attacking Lennon.
The problem is a lack of zero tolerance within the Scottish game.
Uefa / Fifa don’t give a flying ‘ you know what’ even if you have the SAS doing the stewarding.
If an unauthorised person enters the filed of play punishment is coming your way.
You are the oldest footballing nations on the planet and want to wear poppies, well you will get fined too.
Sing your songs and wave your flegs if you want but you will be fined, punished, whatever because that is against our rules.
Operate in a corrupt system where decent people seem to accept and put up with all kinds of shit, most of which has hee haw to do with football,  then we get what we deserve.

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jimboPosted on10:40 pm - Sep 16, 2017


“Former footballer Clarke Carlisle is “very unwell but safe in hospital” his family has said.
The 37-year-old was found in Liverpool on Friday evening after being reported missing amid concerns over his well-being.”

Don’t know anything about the man, but I hope he recovers.  Breaks my heart to hear of people suffering from depression.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:08 pm - Sep 16, 2017


I am a Republican every second of every day of my life.

I believe the monarchy is an anachronism

I believe that member of the the upper house should be elected. 

I do not believe people should have power just because they are born into a certain family. 

In my opinion the only true form of democracy is republicanism. 

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John ClarkPosted on12:02 am - Sep 17, 2017


And, Homunculus, the only truly acceptable form of Football Governance is one which

is open, transparent in all its dealings ( within the normal bounds of genuine commercial confidentiality)

and which is ready to face up publicly to charges of lying to save and protect a seriously delinquent, serially cheating, football club by sliding millions of pounds its way,

and by creating an absolutely ludicrous myth that a dead club is one and the same as a new club that they had to specifically allow to be brought into existence as a participating football club in the SPFL.

It is an absolute nonsense that the SFA can be allowed even to think that they are not answerable to us, their ultimate paymasters!

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jimboPosted on12:27 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Non Exec. director of the SFA, Gary Hughes – a Celtic season ticket holder apparently – speaks in glowing terms of the SFA’s governance.  If that is the case why the reluctance for a review?  They should welcome it to clear the air!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/15540202.High_ranking_Celtic_fan_who_says_SFA_got_it_right_over_Rangers/?ref=rss

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John ClarkPosted on1:18 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Jimbo September 17,2017 at 12.27
‘…Non Exec-director of the SFA,Gary Hughes-a Celtic season-ticket holder,apparently-…..’
________
Thanks for posting that link,Jimbo.

My first remark has to be that being a Celtic season-ticket holder it does not of itself confer any guarantee of infallibility or veracity.

Hughes says “To a great extent, we as a football nation need to be looking forward, not looking back, and I don’t think there would be any significant consequence coming out of an enquiry..”

What is it, with all this ‘self-certification’ by the SFA ?
Do they not see that they may be as white as Whyte but that no one with any understanding of the issues is prepared just to take their word?

The very best construction that can be put on their actions in relation to the dead club [from the earliest moment they learned of the dire financial straits Murray had put that club into] is that they made an absolute bolloks of things, and that alone only would require an ‘appraisal’ of their competence and efficiency.

Of course, once the (however remote) possibility arises that there may have been actions bordering on the criminal in the way that money was deceitfully slid across to help the ailing club, and that more deceit and underhand actions were involved in creating a sporting myth (on the back of which a wholly new football club was  allowed to claim an untrue status when it tried to raise money in the market-place), it is possible that  constructions other than ‘Board incompetence’ are apt to be raised.

By merely  persisting  in asserting that  all of their actions are above reproach, the SFA fuels suspicion that they are afraid ( which, of course, they would be entitled to be-if there is any grain of truth in some of things that they are suspected of) to let anybody look under the bonnet.

They do themselves as individuals and collectively absolutely no good whatsoever.

There must be a comprehensive review .

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jimboPosted on1:35 pm - Sep 17, 2017


JC,  They – the people at Hampden – seem to lay great store in seeking outside advice.  Legal Eagles abound in the corridors of power.  Makes you wonder why they are so desperately, and so often needed.

Of course it goes without saying that top lawyers and QCs can get you off with murder. (metaphorically).

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on2:06 pm - Sep 17, 2017


I suppose in the absence of a review, any CFC representative would have to resign from the SFA in due course?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on2:06 pm - Sep 17, 2017


John ClarkSeptember 17, 2017 at 13:18

Hughes says “To a great extent, we as a football nation need to be looking forward, not looking back, and I don’t think there would be any significant consequence coming out of an enquiry..”
____________________________

I know this is ‘one man’s’ statement, supposedly, I think, speaking for himself (though promoted as a ‘high ranking’ Celtic supporter, as that seems to hold some significance), but it does show how out of touch the ‘move onners’ are. If a ‘football nation’ shouldn’t ‘look back’, what the Falkirk is all this bother over “Rangers’ history”?

A small point, I know, but every club, and it’s supporters, hold great store by their club’s history, and, unless we are happy to accept a history, ‘unfairly won’, then there is no point in having one (a history), and no point in claiming it either if we are just going to let cheats hold onto trophies to enable those who may well have aided that cheating to ‘move on’!

And, of course, the question is never asked of these SFA mouthpeices of just why it is so important, and beneficial, to ‘move on’ from proven wrongdoing without taking every step to rectify the result of that wrongdoing.

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upthehoopsPosted on2:27 pm - Sep 17, 2017


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15540202.High_ranking_Celtic_fan_who_says_SFA_got_it_right_over_Rangers/?ref=mr&lp=1

The PR offensive is in full swing, as today’s Sunday Herald runs a story about ‘high ranking’ Celtic fan Gary Hughes, who is an ‘independent’ SFA Board Member, and who says the SFA got it right every step of the way, yes EVERY step of the way. He joined in 2015 and the first meeting he sat on was to declare Dave King fit and proper, so we can rest easy that they got that one right too. 

So what exactly does ‘high ranking’ mean in this context? He may be a so called independent SFA board member but nonetheless we are still entitled to question just how independent, because despite what Regan says there is zero obvious evidence of transparency within their organisation. I just can’t imagine how this story reached the newspaper which was the last one the PR person currently working on behalf of the SFA was employed with. Clearly the message to low ranking Celtic fans is that one of our own is far more intelligent and better placed than any of us to make an honest judgement on this, and that the board he sits on is overflowing with integrity. It reminds me of the night Fergus McCann won control and the deposed Michael Kelly spoke of us lowly fans as returning to our ‘peripheral housing’.

I do not know Gary Hughes and he may well be a fine man. In that case he will be more than willing to stand in a court and tell a Judicial Review just why we are all so wrong about the SFA. Bring it on.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on3:30 pm - Sep 17, 2017


UPTHEHOOPS
SEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 14:27
================================

Why would Dave King be voted as “fit and proper”. He has nothing to do with an existing football club, He has a trust which owns c15% of the shares in a company which owns shares in a football club and he sits on the board of that company.

I would also be extremely interested to establish what constitutes a  “‘high ranking’ Celtic fan”. I wasn’t aware football fans were “ranked”. Is it an official thing, is it individual to clubs, or is it just some p!5h made up by a newspaper to try to add gravitas to a “story”.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on3:36 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Oh I missed this, it seems Neil Doncaster is the sacrificial lamb.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-chief-faces-grilling-over-11174324

SPFL chief faces grilling over Rangers EBT letter to SFA as his own board demand clarification

Neil Doncaster will be asked to explain the letter that called for a review into the use of EBTs at Rangers when the SPFL board had made it clear any such review must not focus on the Ibrox club.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on4:21 pm - Sep 17, 2017


HOMUNCULUSSEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 15:36

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the DR got this story from ‘Hampden sources’.

Now, will that be sources from inside Hampden, or sources given carte blanche to talk as if they speak from inside Hampden, but are actually situated at PR firms whose best known lie pedlers all have Ibrox season tickets in their wallets?

Also, there is such an obvious PR come pressure campaign going on that it beggars belief that anyone interested in Scottish football could miss it. Just how many of these one-sided stories and statements have enjoyed almost opposition-free mainstream publication? So many, I’d suggest, that even the most neutral observer would have to ask why so much noise from one side if it has nothing to hide?

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:39 pm - Sep 17, 2017


UPTHEHOOPS
SEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 14:27  
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15540202.High_ranking_Celtic_fan_who_says_SFA_got_it_right_over_Rangers/?ref=mr&lp=1
The PR offensive is in full swing, as today’s Sunday Herald runs a story about ‘high ranking’ Celtic fan Gary Hughes…
===================

Yes, more PR p!sh, and I guess this chap will be embarrassed about being labelled a ‘high ranking’ fan?

I’ve never had the pleasure of meeting one – mibbees the churnalist could provide a list?  15

And the surprising thing about this ESJ article: the amount of quotes are surprisingly lengthy from a named, Hampden source.

He’s probably been quoted more words in that one article than Regan has uttered – on the record – since he became CEO !

But the significant point is that this Gary Hughes is a NED.

Plenty of words from someone without authority at the SFA.

His opinion might not actually be any more influential than us ‘average, low ranking fans’ ?

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upthehoopsPosted on5:32 pm - Sep 17, 2017


ALLYJAMBOSEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 16:21

  So many, I’d suggest, that even the most neutral observer would have to ask why so much noise from one side if it has nothing to hide?

==============================

What I can’t understand is we have a media who have had multiple swipes at the SFA for years. ‘Failing the game, ‘blazer mentality’, ‘no better than a Bowling Club’ etc, etc. Then along comes an opportunity to demand reform, some would say a slam dunk opportunity, and they react like a Vampire confronted by a Crucifix. Make no mistake, if the media really wanted the SFA to have a review then the pressure would be so great it would be hard for the SFA not to. I can only conclude the potential of a review finding that the SFA broke rules to help Rangers is a step too far. You can’t tell people they are paranoid all their life for it actually to be shown the people might have been right all along. 

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jimboPosted on6:06 pm - Sep 17, 2017


The SFA are so desperate it would not surprise me that Kneel Doncaster is the first sacrificial lamb to the slaughter.  Hell mend him.

He will be first of many.

Including you Gary Hughes, betrayer to the cause of Scottish football.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:09 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Hughes says “To a great extent, we as a football nation need to be looking forward, not looking back, and I don’t think there would be any significant consequence coming out of an enquiry..”
—————-
I don’t think there would be any significant consequence coming out of an enquiry..”what makes him think that?
If an enquiry is held and the cheating exposed, there will be  significant consequence alright and one of the off shot of these consequences will be that this Non Exec-director of the SFA,Gary Hughes-a Celtic season-ticket holder.should be out of a job at the SFA after speaking in glowing terms of the SFA’s governance.And he should be made to leave his season ticket at the door. Just how High Ranking will this Non Exec-director of the SFA,Mr Hughes be ranked then?
Rank Rotten.

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jimboPosted on6:21 pm - Sep 17, 2017


One thing I learned and studied at Manchester Business School is Corporate Change and the difficulties within.  The young fellow Hughes seems to boast in his CV that company change is a speciality of his.

So tell me Mr. Hughes what corporate change did you bring to the SFA from Jim Farry to S Regan?

Tell me the difference, especially as a Celtic supporter.  Go on tell me difference you big game changer.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on9:01 pm - Sep 17, 2017


HOMUNCULUSSEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 15:36 14 0  Rate This 
Oh I missed this, it seems Neil Doncaster is the sacrificial lamb.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-chief-faces-grilling-over-11174324
———————-
Ibrox managing director Stewart Robertson is also a member of the SPFL board but was not allowed to take part in discussions and played no part in the decision taken by his colleagues.
In the end they agreed a review of processes aimed at avoiding future financial traumas among Scottish clubs as well as how such events would be handled in future would be beneficial.
Significantly, however, the SPFL board made it clear any such review must not focus on Rangers and its use of EBTs that ultimately led to its financial collapse in 2012.
Despite that, Doncaster’s letter to the SFA was headlined, “Independent review of use of tax avoidance schemes at Rangers FC and actions of Scottish football authorities”.
———————
Will there now be a statement on Thursday saying that the review must not focus on Rangers and its use of EBTs.But the review must only look at the  actions of Scottish football authorities”. and how to avoid future financial traumas among Scottish clubs and how such events would be handled in future.
What happens if the review finds the actions taken by the Scottish football authorities in 2012,leads them to focus on Rangers and its use of EBTs that ultimately led to its financial collapse in 2012.?

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ZilchPosted on9:59 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Some talk of fall guys etc. Fall guys for who?

At this point in time we are quite rightly focusing our thoughts and efforts on cleaning up the omnishambles and stinking corruption that is the SFA and the SPFL.

However, we clearly should keep an eye on the original source of the corruption.

After all the years of scandal and outrage, SDM continues to walk away completely unscathed by the disaster he wrought upon our sport and, indeed, upon wider Scottish business.

Isn’t it strange how little flak he has encountered? Teflon doesn’t come close.

Again, you have to ask yourself why?

What cards does he have up his sleeve? How come our esteemed churnalists don’t appear to have any appetite to tackle his role in this affair? Must have been some pretty large helpings of succulent lamb eh?

How come the likes of Milne and Budge are not out hunting this guy for all the damage he did to their clubs and the sport in general? Milne in particular – he was there – he was being cheated – he was taking personal hits as a direct result of SDM’s illegal activities.

Why is Milne not up for chasing this guy out of town?

We have already discussed obvious concerns about alienating Sevconian househunters (see below – is this a legitimate concerns for him to act on as a director of Aberdeen) – but could there be other reasons?

For example, since both gents are very much in the property business – are there any links between them that might make it impolitic to be seen to be chasing after SDM for past wrongs?

In fact this brings me to the main point of this post.

As football fans, we expect our boards to act in the best interests of our clubs at all times.

As businesses with shareholders etc, it is the fiduciary duty of directors to act with the highest standards of care for the interests of the business and Wikipedia tells me that a “directors’ core duty is to remain loyal to the company, and avoid conflicts of interest”.

How do we know, as fans or in some cases as shareholders, that our club directors are fulfilling this highest responsibility?

Is there some register of business interests that directors have to complete to make this information available?

Having seen the previous evidence of SDM interfering in the operation of Dunfermline and potentially many others, it seems to me that we need to have this kind of information out in the open to minimise the potential for improper business interference between clubs.

Plucking a hypothetical example out of the air, would it be acceptable for Mr Milne to be directing his club, Aberdeen, to reject an investigation into the SFA’s handling of SDM’s illegal business activities, if it turned out that Mr Milne was also currently engaged in business deals with SDM elsewhere?

Sounds like a potential conflict of interest, even if only hypothetical.

Sort of thing a good investigative journalist would find interesting I imagine.

If only we had some.

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John ClarkPosted on10:02 pm - Sep 17, 2017


I’m labouring under techy difficulties: I’ve lost the copy and paste facility and all the usual buttons at the top of the screen and I’ve no idea how to get the machine back to where it was!

So I have to type out 
“Cluster One 
September 17 at 21.01

“…What happens if the Review finds the actions……..”
____________
Or, what happens if the SFA’s wee look at the licence issue establishes that there was dirty work at the crossroads, with the SFA and RFC(IL) conspiring together to cheat Celtic plc out of millions by wrongfully awarding a UEFA licence to RFC(IL)?

If there was evidence of such conspiracy, then the SPFL would really have to get right into the whole EBT misuse and sort it out, because such evidence would point to the possibility that events subsequent to the award of the licence were also the result of a continuing conspiracy to let RFC(IL) cheat by fielding ineligible players-for years!

One would not be talking about merely  ‘learning lessons ‘  and tightening up’  the rules, but about the possibility of folk being charged with crime!

One does not, of course, positively assert that there is or may be evidence of such ‘conspiracy’.

But the refusal by the SFA to open up completely, and the desperate pleading by two or three club chairmen AND a ‘high-ranking’ [wtf!]Celtic season-ticket holder serving on the Board of the SFA that it’s time ‘to move on’  do nothing to inspire confidence in the integrity of either organisation.

There are two central facts:

RFC did not at the material dates meet all the criteria for a UEFA licence- and questions about how they were awarded one naturally arise

and RFC fielded ineligible players in absolutely clear breach of the rules-rules that hitherto were ruthlessly enforced, and questions naturally arise as to precisely why the rule book was not thrown at them even by the LNS commission, let alone once the Supreme Court final decision on the lawfulness/unlawfulness showed that LNS’s decision was based on an incorrect view of the law.

There can be no ‘moving on’ until the deep suspicions of many of us are proven to be unfounded.

And it is absurd to  expect that we should just take the word of persons, however high-ranking as fans they may be, that everything was and is hunky-dory.

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ChristyboyPosted on10:10 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Testing, testing. Yip, the blogs fine ?

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DunderheidPosted on10:28 pm - Sep 17, 2017


Can anyone explain to me why we (in Scotland) should need to wait till 11:30pm on a Sunday night – by which time we have already been presented with 3 diets of EPL fare – before we are permitted to see highlights of our national sport on our (publicly-funded) national broadcaster?

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:29 pm - Sep 17, 2017


JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 22:02
“…What happens if the Review finds the actions……..”____________Or, what happens if the SFA’s wee look at the licence issue establishes that there was dirty work at the crossroads, with the SFA and RFC(IL) conspiring together to cheat Celtic plc out of millions by wrongfully awarding a UEFA licence to RFC(IL)?
If there was evidence of such conspiracy, then the SPFL would really have to get right into the whole EBT misuse and sort it out, because such evidence would point to the possibility that events subsequent to the award of the licence were also the result of a continuing conspiracy to let RFC(IL) cheat by fielding ineligible players-for years!
One would not be talking about merely  ‘learning lessons ‘  and tightening up’  the rules, but about the possibility of folk being charged with crime!
——————————–
Put across john in a way i wanted to but could not find the words04

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bigboab1916Posted on10:36 pm - Sep 17, 2017


John ClarkSeptember 17, 2017 at 22:02 
I’m labouring under techy difficulties: I’ve lost the copy and paste facility and all the usual buttons at the top of the screen and I’ve no idea how to get the machine back to where it was!
John with your mouse go to the beginning of the sentence you wish to copy. Hold in left mouse button and move along left to right of the sentence or from beginning moving downwards to take in more and simply along to right or back if you go to far in the paragraph and if you have enough text remove you finger from the left mouse button and when all highlighted text is blue simply, click right mouse button and from drop down menu choose copy.
Go to  the comment baox and click where you want your sentence, paragraphs to begin and  simply click right mouse button and choose paste.
if this is too uncomfortable then another way which is simple also.
Click at begining of the text you wish to  copy, hold shift key in whilst you use your arrow key (4 arrows keys) on keyboard to move left to right along sentence or as previous down to get more at once , (up, down ,left or right your choice on document if you go to far), once you have your text highlighted, hold ctrl key in and press c. Go to your comment box, and to paste simply hold in ctrl key and press v to paste.

Hope this helps

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bigboab1916Posted on10:45 pm - Sep 17, 2017


DunderheidSeptember 17, 2017 at 22:28 
Can anyone explain to me why we (in Scotland) should need to wait till 11:30pm on a Sunday night – by which time we have already been presented with 3 diets of EPL fare – before we are permitted to see highlights of our national sport on our (publicly-funded) national broadcaster?
They either want our kids to fall asleep in school or they want then to follow English football since thats where the spend the money on duds like Stoke,Sunderland etc and thats what gets the most exposure. I might just be a cynic but at least its an answer.

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SmugasPosted on10:52 pm - Sep 17, 2017


6.00 Sunday night BBC2.  Repeated at 11.30.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:12 pm - Sep 17, 2017


DUNDERHEID
SEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 22:28
============================

It was on earlier.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:11 am - Sep 18, 2017


JOHN CLARKSEPTEMBER 17, 2017 at 22:02 
Or, what happens if the SFA’s wee look at the licence issue establishes that there was dirty work at the crossroads, with the SFA and RFC(IL) conspiring together to cheat Celtic plc out of millions by wrongfully awarding a UEFA licence to RFC(IL)?

========================

From the SFA utterances so far, the review seems very narrowly focused on whether the SFA were misled. It does not appear to be going anywhere close to asking what people at the SFA knew, and when did they know it. Mr Regan’s arrogant demeanour the other day suggests he is fairly confident of that. I have no doubt the review will find that Craig Whyte lied to the SFA, but that the SFA acted in good faith and with the utmost integrity at all times. I believe it will also find a way to minimise the role of the current Ibrox board members who were around at that time. Finally, I believe the SFA will say they have legal advice that no action can be taken therefore the matter is now closed for good. In that case no matter what the Resolution 12 people and the Celtic board know, it will be difficult to progress outwith a court.  I could be wrong of course but given how everything else has panned out this seems to me the most likely scenario. Anyway, without an independent body as part of the review it is not worth the paper it will be written on.  

What if Craig Whyte ever tells his version of what happened though? Just a thought.  A Scottish publication won’t go near it but he will get some outlet to run with it I’m sure. Let’s not forget Mr Whyte was found not guilty in a criminal court of any fraudulent behaviour.  He has been subjected to a level of scrutiny no-one at the SFA has ever had to go near. 

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John ClarkPosted on10:10 am - Sep 18, 2017


bigboab1916September 17, 2017 at 22:36
”.. Hope this helps..”
_____________
Thanks, bigboab1916.
Mrs C got to work on the machine this morning and I left her to it. Don’t know whether she adopted your suggestions [it’s all away over my head,I’m afraid], ,whatever, she got the functions back again an hour or so ago.
I now recognise the screen and all the wee icons and things I click on to save, bookmark, check history, find files etc. It’s like getting my eyesight back!19

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John ClarkPosted on11:09 am - Sep 18, 2017


upthehoopsSeptember 18, 2017 at 07:11
‘….In that case no matter what the Resolution 12 people and the Celtic board know, it will be difficult to progress outwith a court. ‘
_________
Yes, uth,that’s why I would have looked to Celtic plc to pursue the interests of its shareholders by supporting  Resolution 12 and having it debated at the AGM in 2013.
If it had been carried/passed at that AGM, the Board would have had to take every possible step to ensure that the truth was established.
If the SFA and/or RFC had  been shown to have clean hands, well and good.
But the questioning might have made them a little more aware of their duty to exercise their governance function a bit more seriously and carefully when it came to matters touching on the RFC.
And, perhaps, to have cast a retrospective sceptical eye over the financial returns of a club with huge potential debts which its owner was desperately trying to sell , and which for years had been claiming to pay some of the best players in Europe little more than buttons!
If they had , the whole nonsense would have been exposed and appropriate action taken on the ‘ineligibility of players’ front.
And the SFA (and SPL) would have struck a blow for the Integrity of the game.
Instead of which…………

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wottpiPosted on12:48 pm - Sep 18, 2017


I know it doesn’t do to speculate about the results of football games but this week is a pretty big one for T’Rangers.

The League Cup fixture at Firhill could go either way. Certainly Partick starting off again with 11 men on the park will have something to prove. However a defeat for the men form Ibrox would get some people jittery.

But for me regardless of the league cup result it is the weekend that looks like being fascinating.

T’Rangers could pull something but the bag v Celtic but it seems unlikely.

Consider the following:-

A Celtic victory puts them as leader of the pack.

An Aberdeen win sees them pulling away in second. However even a draw in the Motherwell fixture sees the Steelmen pull level with T’Rangers.

A Win or a Draw for St Johnstone sees then leap-frog the Ibrox side.

Similarly a Hibs win also results in a leap frog and a Hearts victory at Thistle (I’m not holding my breath on that one) sees them joining T’Rangers on 11 pts should they fail to get anything from the Celtic game.

Dropping to 4th/5th may make those who have any spare cash for the rumoured, much needed, cash injection question where their hard earned cash is going.

The league is a marathon and not a sprint but no harm in a bit of idle speculation for a bot of fun on a Monday. 10

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on5:17 pm - Sep 18, 2017


WOTTPI
SEPTEMBER 18, 2017 at 12:48 
I know it doesn’t do to speculate about the results of football games but this week is a pretty big one for T’Rangers…
=================================

It will be interesting to observe what Level42 p!sh is copied/pasted in the SMSM this week.

Yes, TRFC has a tough tie against the Jags first.
If it’s not a decent result/display, then how does the SMSM talk up TRFC before the CFC game ?

And if they are humped at home – again – then a squirrel of massive proportions will be required for the Sunday rags! 20

Either some hidden gem from RFC’s history…like Minty was ‘about to buy’ e.g. Figo, Zidane, George Weah etc? 

Or something negative about e.g. CFC operations, Brendan Rodgers or Dermot Desmond ?

Getting rather predictable. 222222 

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jimboPosted on6:01 pm - Sep 18, 2017


As a totally neutral observer, I’m looking forward to the Jags and the Bears midweek.  I watched the game on Friday night.  Wasn’t the best in football terms, but was exciting. 

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realshocksPosted on6:26 pm - Sep 18, 2017


 Many innocent Rangers fans would argue their case along similar lines. The fact is that a sizeable number of Celtic fans participate in such proscribed songs at away venues, and that’s without going into pitch invasions and pyrotechnics etc.
 

 It’s actually a pretty complex issue. You have to remember that the IRA historically (with reference to the period 100 years ago or so) can be seen as/were the legitimate army of the country of Ireland. They are highly respected fathers and mothers of the nation of Ireland. The reference of the term is complicated by the actions of the “IRA” during the troubles which escalated some 50 years later. A BRITCENTRIC worldview seems to laude the armed forces extravaganzas at Ibrox every other week, but the term “IRA” is a bogeyman.
Anyway, that issue could easily fill a volume, so how does this square with proscribed songs?
Firstly, my preference, despite being a republican and Celtic fan, would be to simply ban all songs with reference to violence or armies past and present. Sing the songs at parties, pubs and clubs if you want to. However, having stated that, it is obvious that you have no intention of actually checking out the content of the songs so as to gain an informed opinion. I think it’s sad that you haven’t been given credit for your post though, as balance is a wonderful commodity which is terribly scarce in the world of Celtic/Rangers related stuff.
IMHO “Derry’s Walls” is equivalent to “The Broad Black Brimmer” or “Sean South of Garryowen”. “The Fields of Athenrye” I’d class as simply a beautiful folk song. Of course there are many others in these classes, as well as some more recent additions which are basically distasteful: “The Ibrox disaster song” and “The Famine Song” come to mind.
“Hello Hello/The Billy Boys” is flagrantly racist, sectarian and overtly violent. There is no equivalent in Celtic’s songbook.

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paddy malarkey

paddy malarkeyPosted on7:27 pm - Sep 18, 2017


Farewell, Paul Wilson . He appeared a bit lost when he was with us . This for those who may have missed it first time round 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/celtic/interview-paul-wilson-on-stein-celtic-and-racial-abuse-in-the-1970s-1-1901659

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jimboPosted on7:53 pm - Sep 18, 2017


Paul Wilson. RIP

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jimboPosted on8:11 pm - Sep 18, 2017


In 1974/75 he created a marvellous record when he scored in four Hampden cup finals in the same season. The finals were:
1974 Drybrough Cup Rangers 2-2 (4-2 penalties) – 1 goal
1974 League Cup Hibs 6-3 – 1 goal
1975 Scottish Cup Airdrie 3-1 – 2 goals
1975 Glasgow Cup Rangers 2-2 – 2 goals
These terrific performances earned Paul his only Scottish cap in 1975 when he played in Valencia during a respectable 1-1  draw with Spain.
Probably the highlight of his Celtic career came in May 1975 when he scored twice in the Scottish Cup final against Airdrie. Paul showed great courage in playing that day, the final coming only days after his mother had sadly passed away.

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grecian urnPosted on9:27 pm - Sep 18, 2017


Re. proscribed songs, message to GB they are as described, proscribed, don,t sing them. Perhaps a podcast from a GB spokesman on there reasoning for their songbook my be enlightening to ALL Scottish football supporters, not just the majority (I,m sure) of Celtic fans.

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gunnerbPosted on11:45 pm - Sep 18, 2017


Can someone please direct me to the official list of proscribed songs please. 

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jimboPosted on4:44 am - Sep 19, 2017


When is this all going to end?
I despair at times, the proof  is all out there!

We know who the guilty are.  They have brass necks.

Where is the final story, the confession, that will bring this all to a conclusion.

Why are the media so scared?

The fourth estate?

Thank God for Peter Lawwell.

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tayred

tayredPosted on8:30 am - Sep 19, 2017


The song book – if the SFA/SPFL had stepped in right at the start of the issue of the TRFC songbook this wouldn’t an issue. If they had applied all the rules without fear or favour this wouldn’t be an issue. But by their repeated silence on the issue the TRFC fans grew bolder and soon realised they could do and sing whatever they liked. Sadly CFC fans appear to have decided that if “they can do it, then so should we”.

Yes, both clubs have historical links to Ireland. But god does it bore the pants off those from the remaining clubs around the land listening to this perpetual school boy playground drivel. Yes, ok it is far from being a school boy issue – I don’t understand all the issues relating to Ireland, and I sincerely doubt many others do. What I do know is that the majority of those fans belting out these revolting songs don’t understand them either, if they think they do its from the perspective of one side of the argument and even then deeply flawed. For them it is a school playground issue – they don’t really care about the politics or the history, its just what they do on a Saturday afternoon cos thats what their fathers did. Its tired, its pathetic and it has no part in any modern society. 

Yet, in Scotland it isn’t just present, but due to the inactivity of those with the power to do something about, it it is flourishing. The press couldn’t give a stuff either… why? Cos it sells tickets and it sells newspapers. I love my country, but it has issues that the majority find downright mystifying and embarrassing – is it only money that allows this to continue? I mean it couldn’t be anything else could it?

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naegreetinPosted on11:45 am - Sep 19, 2017


Crickey its quiet here & I feel as if it shouldn’t be – are we in the quiet before the storm ? What is Mr Lawwell’s/SPFL’s next move re the SFA ?

And something that’s been troubling me – whatever happened to Lord Wobbly ?

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wottpiPosted on12:46 pm - Sep 19, 2017


NAEGREETINSEPTEMBER 19, 2017 at 11:45

I think things may quieten down a bit until players decide what their next move is.

The next interesting thing will be what comes out of the Compliance Officer investigation into the Euro Licence issue.

As discussed, one of the most likely outcomes is Rangers will have been found to have misled the SFA and that in someways would be the preferred SFA outcome (A big boy did it and ran away).

I am sure it will all be passed off with the ‘administrative error’ tag, learn lessons and move on.

However the problem with that is that this would surely result in even more questions being asked with regard to the competency of the overseeing organisation and the apparent ‘go ahead boys’ attitude to the club from Ibrox for the time period when people like Ogilvie and Smith were sitting pretty in Hampden.

Any wrong doing on behalf of Rangers just results in more problems for the likes of King, Murray, Johnson and Dickson and doesn’t really get the SFA off the hook.

It is either a case of incompetence or collusion.

That is why a full independent review is required because one thing just leads to another.

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jean7brodie

jean7brodiePosted on1:36 pm - Sep 19, 2017


naegreetinSeptember 19, 2017 at 11:45
____________________________________________________
Second time I’ve seen Lord Wobbly mentioned today1816

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on3:47 pm - Sep 19, 2017


I note that Joe O’Rourke of the Celtic Supporters Association has again written to Stewart Regan.

The contents of his letter can be found here:

http://www.thecsa.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1960&sid=df70c3d4ac6e5ac2990a4c88188ea81b

Edit: for those of you that don’t follow the Twitter links below, there’s an interesting article in Bella Caledonia:

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/09/19/liquid-lies-and-solid-facts/

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AuldheidPosted on4:17 pm - Sep 19, 2017


wottpiSeptember 19, 2017 at 12:46

The SFA Compliance Officer, being the same chap who handled
Information indicating fraudulent/negligent behaviour by RFC that was provided by Celtic from share holders in 2014
Then even more information (as will be made public by end of the week ) in July 2015 from Res12 lawyers strengthening the case to investigate already provided the previous year.
unless  he is limited to gathering the evidence that takes his own and SFA CEO Regan’s part in the matter all the way from March 2011 to June 2016 to put before an Investigation Panel, that includes or is led by UEFA, is not the chap who should be handling the case.
If Celtic allow anything but this to happen they will be most remiss in the pursuit of protecting their shareholders as well as spectacularly failing to make the SFA  fully accountable and transparent given the hand they hold. I cannot see that happening if the principles and argument  that have been  expressed when seeking an enquiry are stood by.
There are very serious issues at play here for both SFA and Celtic if all the information that is known before and after 2011 is not part of an investigation.

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realshocksPosted on5:46 pm - Sep 19, 2017


 
But god does it bore the pants off those from the remaining clubs

 I would imagine it does. It’s not at all relevant to football.

 the majority of those fans belting out these revolting songs don’t understand them either,

 
 Kind of shows that you probably don’t differentiate between any of the songs. In reality very few/none of the Celtic songs SUNG AT GROUNDS are revolting. I’ve never heard the Lee Rigby or Ibrox Disaster songs at a ground, both of which are imo “revolting”. On the other hand “Hello Hello” is belted out by tens of thousands of Rangers fans with regularity, home and away.
I’d love it if nobody sang any of these songs at football matches, but that doesn’t excuse catch all ignorance regarding what words are being sung. But, aye: there all as bad as each other etc etc

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ZilchPosted on6:05 pm - Sep 19, 2017


I feel guilty about having raised the issue of the song book at the weekend. It is a real dead-end issue.

And yet, there is a real need for us to face up to the issue and try to find some sort of consensus.

Highlander called for balance. I agree. We also need accuracy.

Lots of songs that have been referred to over the last few days are offensive in some sort of way to various parts of our split community.

However, offensive does not mean sectarian.
 
I strongly object to being denounced as sectarian for supporting Irish republicanism – this is, in my opinion, demonstrably not true. Irish republicanism was founded by Protestants who remain revered to this day and the republican movement remains true to the ambition of uniting all of the people of the island, irrespective of religion etc.  It is akin to denouncing the ANC as racist for fighting white apartheid.
 
The songs people are complaining about coming from the Celtic fans today might well be offensive to many, but crucially I don’t believe they are sectarian. There were other songs in the 70’s and 80’s that I remember being sung that certainly were sectarian and were specifically about religion – to the best of my knowledge these have not been heard in many, many years.

Something being offensive does not necessarily mean it should be banned.

I have strong leanings towards free speech and feel strongly that such rights should only be curtailed in extreme circumstances.

Those circumstances include racist, sectarian, homophobic etc situations.

One way forward for Scottish Football, in my opinion, is for there to be a general acceptance that by buying a ticket to the game, you have effectively agreed to abide by the rules of the host. This overrides free speech entitlements that pertain when you are out in the street or elsewhere.

If the host says no racism, sectarianism, homophobia etc – then that is the rule and it should be strictly enforced – without fear or favour. Anyone found to be breaking that rule gets turfed out and banned from future attendance.

If the host says no political songs, or displays – so be it. It is their call. Anyone found to be breaking that gets turfed out and banned from future attendance.

Since my club has demanded that we leave politics at the door and focus efforts on supporting the football club only – that is exactly what we should do.

Not because of any misplaced suggestion of sectarianism. But simply because it is in the best interests of our club to do so.

My issue at the weekend was the failure of the SFA to tackle real sectarianism – the Billy Boys goes far beyond anything sung by Celtic fans and is specifically sectarian.

I am happy to fully support my club’s attempts to be as inclusive as possible and recognise and support their stance that this ambition is best served by eliminating political songs from our repertoire both at home and away games.

Again, I am sorry that the issue still needs to be discussed.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:20 pm - Sep 19, 2017


If Pedro has a divided team as mentioned elsewhere, and some ‘senior’ players just don’t rate him…

Then, if TRFC loses against the Jags tonight – which players will be worried about being on the Ibrox pitch to receive another humping from CFC ?

Mibbees a TRFC player starting tonight, but who then develops a ‘muscle tweak’ or a ‘groin strain’ which keeps them out of the team on Saturday ?

Or am I being too cynical, again ?  09

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:26 pm - Sep 19, 2017


WOTTPISEPTEMBER 19, 2017 at 12:46
The next interesting thing will be what comes out of the Compliance Officer investigation into the Euro Licence issue.
—————–
Could the Compliance Officer after looking into the Euro Licence issue.State he does not have the power at his remit to deal with this issue,scandal, mess, and kick the whole thing down the road?

Another question if i may.
How long will the Compliance Officer be given to look into everything?

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upthehoopsPosted on7:19 pm - Sep 19, 2017


CLUSTER ONESEPTEMBER 19, 2017 at 18:26  
WOTTPISEPTEMBER 19, 2017 at 12:46The next interesting thing will be what comes out of the Compliance Officer investigation into the Euro Licence issue.—————–Could the Compliance Officer after looking into the Euro Licence issue.State he does not have the power at his remit to deal with this issue,scandal, mess, and kick the whole thing down the road?
Another question if i may.How long will the Compliance Officer be given to look into everything?

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As far as I’m aware the Compliance Officer would have to establish there is a definite case to answer, then it would be handed to an ‘independent’ panel to establish guilt and level of punishment. If, as I expect, the Compliance Officer says there is a definite case to answer that Rangers under Craig Whyte lied to gain a licence, I expect very little to happen by way of punishment. However Regan hinted recently that the 5-Way agreement could come into play in terms of new Rangers taking responsibility for football debts of old Rangers. What if the panel decided the least Celtic would have made from a CL Qualifier and a drop into the EL Qualifier was £2.5M. Then we have what Hearts might have made from being the next team to move up to a CL qualifier, and Kilmarnock to a EL qualifier.  What other meaningful punishment could be handed out other than to compensate those clubs to the minimum they would have made? It’s all pie in the sky of course, because the SFA won’t even see fit to hand out an apology to the clubs who lost out. Just in the same way they can’t even say what old Rangers did was wrong.

In short, IMO this case will be as much of a sham as anything that has gone before.  

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jimboPosted on9:21 pm - Sep 19, 2017


The game so far.  Like Friday night, not great in football terms but good to watch.  Can’t see any threat from the Jags.  imagine Pena getting a goal!?  I heard today he has as many bad habits as me!

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jimboPosted on9:44 pm - Sep 19, 2017


Oh dear, as usual I try to be neutral but both teams are guff.  Celtic will make mincemeat out of either of them.

respectfully yours,

Jimbo

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jimboPosted on9:51 pm - Sep 19, 2017


Good goal, TRangers have the edge

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