The Way it Works

Bybroganrogantrevinoandhogan

The Way it Works

 

Many years ago, I read an article in some legal magazine or other which, to my mind, pointed out something that I had always presumed was obvious.

Namely, that unlike his English Counterpart, the Scottish solicitor is not just a drafter and processor of legal documents, he ( or she ) is a man of business who furnishes advice, and as often as not, will recommend a course of action – possibly involving many different steps or procedures- in any given situation.

Without going into an academic analysis of what this means, may I suggest that a simple definition is that the Scottish solicitor does not always simply do what they are told but will furnish the client with advice for, or against, a certain course of action.

The same applies to accountants and other professionals in my experience. When discussing any business situation, the client should always be aware of the pros and the cons. From there he or she makes a decision based on the advice given – which advice may be taken or rejected.
That is how things work.

If you think about what I have said above, then it follows that one of the principal things an adviser should do for any client, is to suggest a course of action that keeps the client out of court.

Court is a place of last resort. Litigation of any kind is expensive, brings uncertainty, is time consuming and acts as a barrier to unfettered and uninterrupted business planning, strategy and progress because no one can ever be sure of the outcome or the consequences of a court case.
In olden days, court meant choosing your champion to fight against your adversary’s champion. If your guy knocked the other guy of the horse and killed him outright with the lance then you won. It didn’t matter if your guy was also hit with your opponents lance and died a week later as a result – you were still the winner because the other guy died first.

Eventually, society did away with such courts and replaced them with courts of law and the men and women with wigs and gowns as opposed to the lance.

However, you can still win a court battle and suffer a fatal defeat as a consequence.
That is why a court of law should always be regarded as a place of last resort. No one should ever set out on a course of action which runs a high risk of ending up being disputed in court.

Sometimes, of course, a court action is inevitable. On other occasions, people adopt a course of action where the risk of things ending up in court is seen an as an acceptable risk.

This morning’s Daily Record ( and indeed yesterday’s edition ) is spouting David Murray’s mantra that HMRC knifed Rangers but adds there are no winners here. How very MSM. How very lacking in business understanding or searching for the truth.

So, let me explain something.

When you sit down with a firm of accountants who specialise in aggressive tax avoidance schemes such as an EBT scheme or a DOS scheme, one of the things that are spelt out to you is that the scheme you are about to embark upon may well be, indeed is likely to be, challenged in a court of law. Especially if you do not administer it to the letter.

Often as not, the client will be asked to sign up to a contract which specifies that the client will pay hefty fees to lawyers and accountants for setting up the scheme and that fee will include a contribution towards legal fees arising in the event of a legal challenge to the scheme.

That is stipulated at the very outset. You pay £x in advance because you know you are likely to be sued. You also get the benefit of advice which is designed to ensure that your scheme is absolutely watertight in terms of the law, but crucially, there is a rider which states that in the event that the court rules against you then the accountants or lawyers will not be held accountable as you are entering into the whole process knowing that there is a big risk of litigation – and you are told in writing that while you shouldn’t lose, you might lose.

This too is the way it works.

The business advisers will not want litigation, but from the outset they will cover their backs and make it plain to the client that if you sign on the dotted line for an aggressive tax avoidance scheme then you can expect HMRC to take you to court.

Accordingly, the protestations screaming out from the Daily Record this morning about how HMRC killed Rangers are balderdash and bunkum of the highest order.

HMRC did not knife Rangers, they did exactly what was expected of them in the circumstances and the people at MIH knew that the day they started off on any one of their tax avoidance schemes.
Taking the risk in the first place killed Rangers or Rangers PLC if you prefer.

However, the events of yesterday and the day before throw up some other matters worth considering and remembering.

The first is the woeful state of the Rangers accounts by 2005 when there had been yet another share issue underwritten by David Murray. Those accounts showed Rangers PLC to be in a shocking financial state, despite all the rhetoric and dressing from the Directors and the Accountants.

More or less immediately Murray chose to put the club up for sale as it was obvious that the financial traincrash could simply not continue.

However, despite years of searching no buyer could be found.

Further, it should also be remembered that Rangers PLC knew all about the small tax case long before Craig Whyte came along. Those liabilities stemmed from around 2001 but at no time during the Murray era at Ibrox did Sir David put aside the money to pay a bill which no one at Rangers disputed as being due at any time.

Whyte stressed the need for this to be paid long before he ever got the keys to the Marble Staircase, but it wasn’t and there can be only one of two reasons for that.

Either Sir David just didn’t pay the bill concerned ….. or he couldn’t!

The fact is that long before Craig Whyte appeared David Murray could have paid that bill or reached an agreement to pay that bill. However he didn’t and for a period of several years he simply decided he wanted out …. Needed out ….. at any cost!

There is no doubt that he gambled hard and fast with Rangers Football Club, and their finances and their supporters loyalties. He knew , or ought to have known, well in advance that a prolonged and regularly used aggressive tax avoidance scheme, legal or not, was bound to attract the adverse interest and attention of HMRC.

Sir David Murray has been lauded up and down the country for his so called business acumen and business knowledge. He was knighted for the same and received all sorts of unprecedented backing from banks and other institutions.

Does anyone reading this really believe that such a man did not have the foresight, or the advisers around him who had the foresight, to see and know that a large and prolonged dispute with the revenue authorities may well have an adverse effect on the viability and sellability of his business?
Such a suggestion is simply not credible.

Further when the HMRC interest came, Murray’s men, if not Murray himself, did their very best to try and hide the existence of the scheme, the documents surrounding the scheme, the details of the scheme and the intention of the scheme.

They hid all this away from HMRC, The SFA, The SPL and anyone else in authority, with the result that those authorities and bodies had no option but to run to the courts, set up tribunals and convene formal hearings.

When someone does not tell you the truth, starts hiding documents and obfuscating that is the way it works.

However, that is not all that yesterday brought.

The news that Collier Bristow have apparently agreed ( through their insurers no doubt ) to pay the liquidator of Rangers some £20M shows that taking into account the litigation risk, someone somewhere thought it worth making a payment to make a bad situation go away.
Imagine that? What bad situation could that be?

Would it be that somehow or other, creditors, officials and all sorts of other people were misled by a leading firm of solicitors in relation to the affairs of Rangers PLC? Could it really be the case that things were so bad financially at Ibrox, that the only way for even Whyte to be able to get the sale to go through at the princely sum of £1 plus the official bank debt was to have his people mislead funders and eventual creditors?

What does that say about David Murray’s stewardship and the absolute urgent need to get Lloyds TSB out of the picture? Was there really no one else or no other way to take on the debts of Rangers PLC? Apparently not — and that can only be because someone chose to gamble with the finances of the club and leave it in a precarious state.

I am told that when Lloyds took over that account they expressed amazement at how MIH and Rangers PLC were allowed to run up the debts they had with HBOS. Apparently there was incredulity at some of the figures and covenants.

So , when we read in the Record this morning that the HMRC Big Tax case inadvertently brought down Rangers it is very easy to overlook the debt due to the bank, how it arose, the sums due to the same bank through MIH, the extent of the sums due, the banks attitude and the possible attitude and course of action had Whyte not taken them away.

Remember that the same bank stepped straight into MIH and began selling off its assets, and that low and behold the same management team who engineered the EBT scheme have openly admitted that there is an unexplained shortfall in the employees’ pension scheme of over £20 Million.

Do you think the employees who have lost out on pension provision are the slightest concerned about whether the tax avoidance scheme funds and their use are legal or not ? – or do you think they might argue that the money used for these so called “discretionary payments” should have been used to fund a proper legally constituted pension scheme which the company and its directors undertook to pay into under contract?

There is still substantial debt due to Lloyds by MIH and part of that debt is the amount by which David Murray and MIH underwrote and guaranteed that last share issue of Rangers PLC in 2004/2005. The principal sum due under that guarantee ( excluding interest and charges ) was greater than the principal sum claimed by HMRC in the big tax case.

Go figure.

However, this saga is far from over especially with regard to “contractually due” severance payments which look as if they will come back to the FTT in the event of the parties concerned not reaching agreement on the tax allegedly due.

Now, this is interesting because apparently there are a number of documents in existence which show that certain players received a payment of £x at the end of their contract as part of a severance deal.

At the time these were made, my recollection is that under normal severance agreement legislation the first £30,000 would be tax free but after that any sums were taxable.

The FTT has never been asked to rule on these payments, and has never heard any evidence about the legality or otherwise of paying these sums gross of tax into an offshore trust. All of that may yet be to come.

However, the most interesting part of this for me is that further court action may be taken in relation to these matters failing agreement between HMRC… and whom?

Rangers PLC ( the employer ) is in Liquidation so perhaps HMRC might claim some of the money from the Liquidator who has just received the £20M from Collier Bristow – then again it could well be that Ticketus have something to say about that.

In his last statement about MIH, David Murray openly proclaimed that the company was all but finished and revealed the pension shortfall and so on – so I doubt if any agreement of any meaning will be reached there.

That then leaves those who supposedly benefited from the contractually due severance payments – namely the players.

Maybe, in the absence of a now defunct employer, they will be asked to cough up the tax.

No doubt they will all go and consult their lawyers and accountants – the men and woman of business – who will give them their best advice – but you can bet your bottom dollar that any such advice will include a paragraph or ten which starts something along the lines of “ However, here is the potential risk in the event of you deciding to …………. “

That is the way it works……. And always has done.

About the author

broganrogantrevinoandhogan author

Boot wearing football, sport & total nonsense fan-- Gourmet, Bon Viveur and eedgit! - Oh and I write a bit occasionally!

1,546 Comments so far

justshateredPosted on8:42 pm - Jul 30, 2014


scapaflow says:
July 30, 2014 at 7:17 pm

So just to clarify.
E17 – Rule breach with no specified punishment and, as we know from the recent past, there will be no, or negligible, action.
E18 – ditto.
E19 – They can’t register players WITHOUT THE BOARDS PERMISSION – mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Well lets just put a pin in that!!!

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scapaflowPosted on8:48 pm - Jul 30, 2014


justshatered says:
July 30, 2014 at 8:42 pm

Those are the rules THE CLUBS agreed to, I think they are a load of self serving bullsh!t as well, but those are the rules THE CLUBS wanted.

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wottpiPosted on10:10 pm - Jul 30, 2014


As I posted David Somers DR story I suppose I better follow it up.

The Chair, CEO and FD that are in charge at Ibrox now are a different kettle of fish from the previous post holders.

Yes I have no doubt they are wanting their just rewards. Folk who get to such positions tend not to do things for free. However while they still have to come up with the goods in terms of getting everyone on side they are not a spivvy as Mr Green.

Not the obvious second car salesmen for them. They seem to be trying to keep their heads down and get on with a very difficult job.

Phil Mac seemed happy with his source to go to print MP was possibly going to be up for grabs. I have no reason to doubt that was what he was told. As he says sources can sometimes be wrong (or fed a false story by the execs to flush them out?).

If we are to believe it is costing circa £1.2m a month for MP(though I have always thought that figure seems very high) it is clear that something needs to be done about bringing costs down or breaking any ‘onerous contracts’. The same goes for other operations being that even in the Murray days the accounts showed running costs excluding players wages to be in the region of £14m/annum.

Now maybe Somers will be found out when the place goes up for sale. Of course what he didn’t mention was the possibility of using it as security for another Wonga loan.

However in the meantime I have no doubt the operations at MP and elsewhere can be scaled down significantly to reduce costs. As previously discussed if the facility was sold then there are other costs would be incurred trying to source alternatives.

I would have thought trying to hang onto the ‘asset’ but reduce running costs is perhaps the best move if the sums do add up. A bit of future proofing so to speak if the club is to remain on the rails and then build its scouting and development programme.

The problem for us is that at soon as it looks like one avenue is closing down for those hoping for the demise of the new club we jump on another strand of the financial woes.

Today we are back to unpaid bills and payroll problems.
Previously we have had asbestos, roofing issues, no registered physios etc etc

Now while these things may all come to fruition along with some deal on MP, I have a suspicion the bandwagon will keep rolling along.

Wottpi stands for Waiting On The Tram Public Inquiry.

While the project was a shambles I was convinced it would happen one way or another because once the thing got started all politicians wanted to see trams running along Princes Street.

On forums similar in nature to ourselves, people wishing to see the project die convinced themselves it was all going to fail. Things were banded around like
-It wasn’t going to the airport.
– It would cost more than a bus ticket.
-The power lines for the tram were too close to those for the railway at certain points.
-The extra long trams wouldn’t manage to turn the corner at York Place.
-You couldn’t engineer switch backs.
-Tourists wouldn’t come due to the power lines blocking photos of the Castle.
-Breakdowns couldn’t be cleared etc etc.

Guess what (and I did tell them at the time) all of the above never came true.

The thing cost a fortune. Many people, on all sides of the project, need to be brought to book and hung out to dry (thus my desire for a proper PI) but the fact remains that after the initial screw ups when a half decent body of people got a grip of the project they kept their heads down and delivered it as best they could.

At the end of the day it was a simple project, rails, a few structures, power lines, trams on a designated route, poorly manged.

Yes it cost a lot, the pain felt in the city was massive and its only part of the intended route but at the end of the day the tram line is there for all to see.

Whether or not it ever reaches the goals and routes that were intended and whether or not there are further financial troubles down the line who can say. But remain it shall – for a good number of years.

Those who despise it may never ride the rails but many will jump on board, even those who said they would never do so or argued against the project.

I believe the club from Govan are not out of the woods yet. It may still go catastrophically wrong. Some shareholders may bring the whole thing crashing down. But again it is a simple project,put out eleven guys in blue on the park and make it attractive enough to bring in the known tens of thousands fans paying as much as they can.

My hunch is that despite what some may say, like the trams, there is a will from those in footballing authority (including other clubs) to push the project through and those in charge at Govan now are trying their hardest to rise to the challenge that they have been left to deal with. Only time will tell if they can get things back on track.

In the meantime the speculation of what next may befall T’Rangers is a least a bit of fun to fill many a quiet day.

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StevieBCPosted on10:14 pm - Jul 30, 2014


With the anticipated failure of TRFC at some point, it feels like deja vu – all over again. 😕

A significant, recurring theme is the disconnect between ‘the game’ and the fans.

The clubs are answerable to shareholders and don’t have to have any formal fans’ representation if they don’t want it, [with a few exceptions like Motherwell, IIRC ?]

But, if the SFA receives public monies then surely they have to have some accountability ? Perhaps this could be in the form of fans’ representation on the SFA Board ? [I know…]

And I appreciate that many have been deeply disappointed with the non-performance of Supporters Direct wrt the RFC/TRFC saga over the last few years – but again, surely this is the type of organisation which could/should be a useful conduit between the SFA, the government and the fans – to lobby for representation ?

It just seems, IMO, that it doesn’t matter what is changed at the SFA – in the absence of any formal fans’ representation there will always be a disconnect – and a lack of trust in the governance of the game.

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scapaflowPosted on10:38 pm - Jul 30, 2014


wottpi says:
July 30, 2014 at 10:10 pm

All very true. However, with the tram project, once they got some decent management in, and did a de-scoping exercise to get the requirements to match the remaining budget, all the key stakeholders signed off on the revised plan, and by and large stuck together as they drove it through to completion.

This by all accounts is not the position at TRFC. I think the main reason that it took 120 days to come up with a fairly meaninglessness plan, and why very little has been achieved in implementing said plan, is that Wallace and Nash do not enjoy the unqualified support of either the board, or the main shareholder blocs.

As someone else once said, its very difficult to build a winning innings, when overnight the team captain sneaks out to break the stumps and the bats!

The dynamic duo may well succeed in keeping the wheels on the tram for quite sometime, but there will come a point when they either run out of patience, or out of resources. The status quo at TRFC is not sustainable. The SFA & SPFL should really be doing some contingency planning, the appointment of Topping suggests they are, but, that the plan is for a smarter re-run of 2012 👿

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StevieBCPosted on10:44 pm - Jul 30, 2014


Yes, appointing Topping is sending out all the wrong signals, IMO.

No intention of bringing in new blood. No intention of changing the culture at the SFA. The preference is to stick with people they know.

But presumably the clubs have bought into this as well.

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Kilgore TroutPosted on10:49 pm - Jul 30, 2014


Don’t mind me. I’ve just popped in for some peace from all the wailing on some Celtic sites.
Blimey, we don’t half have some spoiled brats amongst our ‘support’.

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John ClarkPosted on11:33 pm - Jul 30, 2014


StevieBC says:
July 30, 2014 at 10:44 pm
‘Yes, appointing Topping is sending out all the wrong signals, IMO.
No intention of bringing in new blood. No intention of changing the culture at the SFA. The preference is to stick with people they know….’
——
Yes, people who will not turn over over the stones to reveal, in all its disgusting fullness, the slimy mess of deceit and betrayal that the SFA Board, without too much need of persuasion,allowed themselves to become.

Wottpi’s Edinburgh Tram fiasco analogy, with ‘good guys’ coming in to sort out the mess and ‘deliver’ a project, is only partly applicable. That Tram mess was caused by shambolic, inefficient management of what was, however unpopular in certain quarters, a legitimate project.

The mess caused by the SFA (and others, of course) was caused by deliberate connivance at deceit by one club, and by the deceitful intent that lay behind the ‘secret’ 5-way agreement. That mess continues, and will continue for as long as that deceit is not acknowledged because,unlike the Tram project, Project TRFC is not and never has been legitimate, and no authority on earth can now make it legitimate.
In my opinion.

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AuldheidPosted on1:13 am - Jul 31, 2014


I had thought Topping was standing down from his role as SPFL Chairman and CEO of William Hills.

I wrote to him in his latter capacity in March on a sponsorship angle forwarding the letters that had gone to Harper MacLeod from TSFM.

I followed up first letter with this

“As mentioned previously a reply to Harper MacLeod would be made and for completeness it should be read in conjunction with my original mailed letter to Mr Topping.

The response to HM can be found at

http://www.tsfm.net/an-honest-game-convince-us/#comments

and asks serious questions of the integrity of Scottish football and if trust is to be restored answers that do so must be provided..

In his position as CEO of one of its major sponsors Mr Topping could have a key role in bringing about pressure for change and enhancing W Hill’s reputation as an organisation that can itself be trusted to look after the concerns of its customers.”

To which I received this reply.

” We understand that the League’s lawyers, Harper Macleod, have already responded to correspondence received on this issue. I have been asked to supply you with their details should you wish to contact them.”

So Topping knows all about the misleading of LNS as does Lawwell.

Topping was unhappy at the punishment meted out, Lawwell was surprised at the LNS no sporting advantage decision. Now they are around the same table with Campbell Ogilvie they can try and start to put right something they were both unhappy about. In fact I heard Lawwell was raging at some people although his attention will be elsewhere in the coming week.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:20 am - Jul 31, 2014


John Clark says:
July 30, 2014 at 11:33 pm

Project TRFC is not and never has been legitimate, and no authority on earth can now make it legitimate.
In my opinion.
————————————-

I totally agree John, but although we know that to be the case it appears every single authority there is considers it to be legitimate. I write with a heavy heart today after my team’s performance last night but that discussion is not for this forum. What is for this forum is the discussion my friend and I had after the game, namely that next season there will be a Rangers in the top league and all official records and media comments will state they are going for their 55th league title. While I can pick myself up after a poor European result after a lifetime of past experiences, I will find it very difficult to pick myself up from something that is, for want of a better phrase, organised crime. New Rangers going for a 55th title is just that in my view.

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Danish PastryPosted on7:40 am - Jul 31, 2014


Auldheid says:
July 31, 2014 at 1:13 am
5 0 Rate This

… Topping was unhappy at the punishment meted out, Lawwell was surprised at the LNS no sporting advantage decision. Now they are around the same table with Campbell Ogilvie they can try and start to put right something they were both unhappy about. In fact I heard Lawwell was raging at some people although his attention will be elsewhere in the coming week.
———

Hopefully this issue will be met head on and asap. The longer it is put to one side the more difficult it will be to act in the face of accusations of ‘bitterness’ and ‘witch hunt’.

The time is now. An emergency SFA board meeting should called.

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easyJamboPosted on8:10 am - Jul 31, 2014


RIFC has just advised AIM that the total number of shares on issue is 65,810,341.

That is the same number as was advised at the time of the Brian Stockpile option was announced.

I don’t know if it means that the club has carried out some checks and is unaware of any other options that exist (Philip Nash ??), or if it is simply providing themselves with a base position for a share issue to be announced shortly

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wottpiPosted on9:08 am - Jul 31, 2014


The prospectus is here
http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/rifc-prospectus.pdf

It said

Placing Price 70 pence
Offer Price 70 pence

Number of Placing Shares to be issued 24,242,857
Maximum number of Offer Shares to be issued 14,285,714
Acquisition Shares to be issued 33,415,200

Enlarged Share Capital Up to 71,943,771
Gross proceeds of the Placing and Offer Up to £27.0 million

Estimated net proceeds of the Placing and Offer (assuming subscription £24.5 million
in full of the Offer Shares)

As reported by Phil Mac and the MSM

“The authority given to the Board at the AGM in December 2013 to enable the Company to allot up to 43,400,000 new ordinary shares of 1p each in the capital of the Company on a pre-emptive basis to existing shareholders”

How do all these figures tie in with the 65,810,341 shares that has been the recently quoted figure?

Hoping someone can explain in layman’s terms as every day on here is an education 🙂

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easyJamboPosted on9:36 am - Jul 31, 2014


wottpi says: July 31, 2014 at 9:08 am
——————————–
The IPO planned to issue up to 71,943,771 shares between the placing to institutional investors and offer to the Bear public.

In the event the Bear public didn’t take up the full amount of shares available to them. 7,437,999 out of 14,285,714 available were taken up in the offer, leaving 6,847,715 of the 71,943,771 not issued and a total of 65,096,056 shares issued.

Brian Stockpile’s option of 714,285 increased the total number of shares issued to 65,810,341.

The 43.4M share figure was the amount of new shares that the Board was authorised to allot in the following 12 months. That authority was renewed at the last AGM, but a further request to dis-apply pre emption rights on these new shares failed to get through the AGM.

There you have it, clear as mud, for the not so numerate.

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scapaflowPosted on9:54 am - Jul 31, 2014


Auldheid says:
July 31, 2014 at 1:13 am

I keep hearing that folk were unhappy, can anyone point me to where the QC challenged Bryson’s sophistry, oh that’s right, the QC was instructed by his client to accept it.

I am afraid that events have driven me to a position where I have zero faith and even less trust in any of the people who sit around the Hampden tables. If faith is to be restored and trust rebuilt, then public action will be required over the coming weeks and months,

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wottpiPosted on10:02 am - Jul 31, 2014


easyJambo says:
July 31, 2014 at 9:36 am

Many thanks.

Thought the difference had to do with the lack of uptake by fans.

What happens to the non allocated shares that make up the difference? While they presumably still have authorisation to put them out to offer ( I thought Charles said on STV he would buy them himself!!) are they just forgotten about and the new figure is now the base line for all future deals?

Presumably this confirmation of the numbers is the company trying to say there are no further hidden options.

So the question then comes back to who is going to buy any new shares if they do get offered?

The institutions have seen their investment drop and now it is going to be diluted further. It doesn’t seem a good investment to me.

The fans ponied up circa £5m two years ago and are unlikely to take up an offer in great numbers, if it is made open to them, when so many are inclined not to renew season tickets.

I am sure the figures have all been worked out but it seems to me the plan is to scrape enough cash together to try and see this season out with the hope of top dollar 40k season ticket prices in the premiership.

As discussed the other day IMHO McCoist’s limitations as a manager could once again end up being the spanner in the works if they don’t get off to a good start.

Would not be surprised if things get sticky we hear the phrase ‘Walking away by mutual consent’ before Christmas.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on12:25 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Not sure if options count in determining the total number of shares issued

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John ClarkPosted on12:41 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Completely OT, but I was reminded this morning of the scene in ‘The Untouchables’ when the psychpathic/sociopathic Al Capone ,raging against Ness, cries ” I want him DEAD. I want his whole ( swear word deleted) family dead!’

What caused this to spring to mind was receipt of a Bus lane enforcement charge notice this morning from Glasgow City Council! Glassford St, 3.05 A.M!!
(No, I was not skulking the back lanes and alleys like some former political chancers were wont to do(and, perhaps, who knows,some current cooncillors of my native city may still do) but on a mission to bring stranded friends back to Edinburgh.

The sheer unreasonableness of the regulations being in force at that time of the morning, regulations presumably made by,and I can hardly bring myself to utter the dirty words ‘local politicians’, just adds to my readiness to treat ‘local politicians’ as being down there at the bottom of the manure pile.

Naturally, I wish no cooncillor any harm,-just hope that they lose their seats and never get re-elected! 👿

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nawlitePosted on1:09 pm - Jul 31, 2014


JC, the city I drive most in these days is Edinburgh and their traffic control reputation is pretty fierce, but even their bus lanes close down outwith peak times. When going back to visit a friend who stays in the centre of Glasgow, I couldn’t believe it when he told me the bus lanes were 24-hour! It’s just racketeering. Apologies for continuing your OT rant.

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on1:29 pm - Jul 31, 2014


GoosyGoosy says:
July 31, 2014 at 12:25 pm
0 0 Rate This

Not sure if options count in determining the total number of shares issued.
_______________________________
I think that’s why this latest statement from RIFC seems pointless.It does not address the issue of any other options existing,only telling us how many shares have been issued.It clears up nothing.
I wonder why RIFC issued the statement though.
Maybe an attempt to satisfy AIM?.

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scapaflowPosted on1:33 pm - Jul 31, 2014


nawlite says:
July 31, 2014 at 1:09 pm

A special corner of hell should be reserved for the half-wit who came up with the idea of putting in short 20 yard sections of bus lane whenever the road gets a bit wider :mrgreen:

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Danish PastryPosted on2:30 pm - Jul 31, 2014


OT

Any other exiled old East Ender’s need to be watching the Time Trial from Glasgow. Route from the Green, via Saltmarket, Gallowgate, Millerston Street, Cumbernauld Road and Ally Parade and no far frae ma auld da who’s resting in Riddrie. Streets wonderfully free of litter.

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mungoboyPosted on5:00 pm - Jul 31, 2014


OT again for attention of our Danish friend.
Saw that and having grown up in the Calton I found it really interesting, especially as they whizzed round from the Gallowgate into Moir Street ( where I grew up ) on their way back to the Green. Not a tenement in sight!
BTW don’t know if you can get BBC2 in Denmark but tomorrow night at 9 pm UK time there is a programme called The Secret History of our Streets and it’ll feature Britain’s longest street…… your very own Duke Street. Get your hanky ready if you can see it.
As you all were.

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AllyjamboPosted on5:54 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Goosy Goosy, good point and equally good follow up from torrejohnbhoy.

I have to admit, even though I naturally look for hidden/lack of meanings in everything emanating from Ibrox, I didn’t pick up on that point, so those looking only for ‘good news’ will no doubt miss such nuances. It’s a bit similar to the announcement over Ibrox (and later MP) in that it’s not what they say so much as what they don’t say that matters. Without stating exactly how many shares are available to them to issue, there’s absolutely no point to their statement, but it does look like something positive initially. In fact, there will be a point when all 43.4m rights to buy shares will be issued, but the actual shares on issue will remain the same at 65.8m – until someone actually pays to take up their rights.

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scapaflowPosted on6:21 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Allyjambo says:
July 31, 2014 at 5:54 pm

Its almost as if the statements were crafted by a well known practitioner of the informational black arts :mrgreen:

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parttimearabPosted on7:21 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Just spotted this in the Herald

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/as-robertson-moves-to-hull-queens-lose-their-elite-status.24915900?

It would seem that Queens Park can’t provide a “pathway to full time football” and consequently are to loose their elite youth status.

Maybe someone should tell Andrew Robertson (£2.85m transfer to Hull), Barry Douglas (currently playing his trade at Lech Poznan) or Aiden Connolly (poised to make the breakthrough to DUFC first team this season)

There may of course be others, these are only the ones United have “pinched” recently.

I suspect there are a number of “professional” and indeed full time Scottish clubs with a worse record in fostering young talent.

But hey, when did the blazers turn down an opportunity to make a***s of themselves?

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Danish PastryPosted on7:24 pm - Jul 31, 2014


mungoboy says:
July 31, 2014 at 5:00 pm
7 0 Rate This

OT again for attention of our Danish friend.
Saw that and having grown up in the Calton I found it really interesting, especially as they whizzed round from the Gallowgate into Moir Street ( where I grew up ) …
——–

Brilliant stuff. I was glued tae the telly.

Thanks, I’ll be tuning in most definitely to that.

Too bad for David Millar but he is hoping to do better in the Road Race which should also be great viewing …

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CastofthousandsPosted on7:34 pm - Jul 31, 2014


There have been numerous suggestions previously that Celtic should weigh into the Rangers debacle since they have suffered most from any partial application of the rules. I think the recent chastisement by the bereaved of anything that could even remotely have been injurious to their clumpany makes Celtic’s arms length stance appear very wise. Even this prudent approach hasn’t prevented the ‘land deals’ diversion coming into play.

James Doleman’s posting up of the march on Ibrox video was informative. There was a decent turnout for a wet Saturday afternoon and the brief speeches concentrated entirely on their own predicament and didn’t play to any lowest common denominator. Craig Houston seems like a credible spokesperson but things are now so complicated that there is no longer a clear target for their frustration. An RIFC board that has gained a modicum of respect from a blogger ‘tarred with the sickening brush of sectarianism’ should logically be much deserving of sacking when viewed through blue tinted spectacles. However nothing appears to be as it seems.

So for a support trying to reconcile themselves to a new reality, not sure of where the soul of their club lies and still going through the mid-stages of a grieving process, it is not clear they have yet reached the end of the beginning.

I fear there may be much entertainment yet to come. In the interest of a healthy lifestyle perhaps the popcorn should be replaced by some other staple more suitable for corporeal wellbeing. Mung beans anyone?

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scapaflowPosted on7:58 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Castofthousands says:
July 31, 2014 at 7:34 pm

Don’t think Celtic or any club should. But,

When someone takes on a position at the SFA or SPFL, they are not there to act as Club X’s man on the board, they are there to act in the wider interests of Scottish Football. If their association with a particular club precludes them from meeting that responsibility, then they shouldn’t have volunteered for the fecking job.

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parttimearabPosted on8:14 pm - Jul 31, 2014


And good to see the BBCs no expense spared coverage of Scottish teams in Europe continues unabated……

“I’ll get my cards on the table nice and early. I can’t see the games since neither are on the telly (well, not one I can see) and there is no radio coverage either – other than updates during BBC Radio Scotland’s Commonwealth Games coverage. I’ll be scouring the ‘net and using my network of spies across the globe to bring you a multi-media collage of the goings on in Perth and San Sebastian.”

I kid you not…I lifted this direct from the website….beyond useless..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/28590440

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Bill1903Posted on8:34 pm - Jul 31, 2014


parttimearab says:
July 31, 2014 at 8:14 pm
2 0 Rate This

And good to see the BBCs no expense spared coverage of Scottish teams in Europe continues unabated……

“I’ll get my cards on the table nice and early. I can’t see the games since neither are on the telly (well, not one I can see) and there is no radio coverage either – other than updates during BBC Radio Scotland’s Commonwealth Games coverage. I’ll be scouring the ‘net and using my network of spies across the globe to bring you a multi-media collage of the goings on in Perth and San Sebastian.”

I kid you not…I lifted this direct from the website….beyond useless..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/28590440
———————————————————————

Aye it’s pathetic

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upthehoopsPosted on8:53 pm - Jul 31, 2014


scapaflow says:
July 31, 2014 at 7:58 pm
5 0 Rate This

Don’t think Celtic or any club should. But,

When someone takes on a position at the SFA or SPFL, they are not there to act as Club X’s man on the board, they are there to act in the wider interests of Scottish Football. If their association with a particular club precludes them from meeting that responsibility, then they shouldn’t have volunteered for the fecking job.
====================================

Couldn’t agree more, however in my humble opinion there is a man sitting high in the SFA right now whose association with a particular club precludes him from meeting that responsibility.

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easyJamboPosted on8:53 pm - Jul 31, 2014


parttimearab says: July 31, 2014 at 7:21 pm
————————–
Lawrence Shankland also went from the Spiders to Aberdeen, although he spent a few months on loan to Dunfermline last season.

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scapaflowPosted on9:07 pm - Jul 31, 2014


upthehoops says:
July 31, 2014 at 8:53 pm

Aye, such a shame that clubs don’t seem to see it that way though!

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Danish PastryPosted on9:35 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Leadng question from @talksport

Is the demise of Rangers to blame for Celtic’s European woes? – tlks.pt/7myM88
10:30pm – 31 Jul 14

View Comment

parttimearabPosted on9:36 pm - Jul 31, 2014


easyJambo says:
July 31, 2014 at 8:53 pm
parttimearab says: July 31, 2014 at 7:21 pm
————————–
Indeed…..and I managed to forget Blair Spittal (who has shown up well in pre season) 😳 😳 😳

Definitely no path to pro football there then…. 🙄 🙄 🙄

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GoosyGoosyPosted on10:20 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
July 31, 2014 at 9:35 pm
1 0 Rate This

Leadng question from @talksport

Is the demise of Rangers to blame for Celtic’s European woes? – tlks.pt/7myM88
10:30pm – 31 Jul 14
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It comes from deliberately living within their means

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ianagainPosted on11:18 pm - Jul 31, 2014


mungoboy says:

July 31, 2014 at 5:00 pm

OT again for attention of our Danish friend.
Saw that and having grown up in the Calton I found it really interesting, especially as they whizzed round from the Gallowgate into Moir Street ( where I grew up ) on their way back to the Green. Not a tenement in sight!
BTW don’t know if you can get BBC2 in Denmark but tomorrow night at 9 pm UK time there is a programme called The Secret History of our Streets and it’ll feature Britain’s longest street…… your very own Duke Street. Get your hanky ready if you can see it.
As you all were.
To back this wee bit of OT nostalgia up. I used to be a delivery driver all over Glasgow and the West. Suffice to say DUKE ST had its very own “run” (from memory 17 drops, twice a day)as compared with Rothseay and Dunoon with 3, but once a week. It was on bonus and speed and believe me the prized run was Duke st.

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ianagainPosted on11:26 pm - Jul 31, 2014


On another matter. Summer football.

I see this every year the ‘well go out. we get a team that’s up and running 12 or 6 games in.

I believe that’s our true Scottish Achilles heel.

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bobferrisPosted on11:42 pm - Jul 31, 2014


Paul Paton of Partick, now a Northern Ireland call up and Paul Cairney of Hibs also began at Queen’s Park as did Neill Collins who has served Sunderland, Wolves, Leeds and Sheffield United with some distinction. There will be a few other recent ones I’m forgetting I’m sure.

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ianagainPosted on12:00 am - Aug 1, 2014


I take it the myth that Collyers had coughed up umpteen millions to BDO is now dead?

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AuldheidPosted on12:09 am - Aug 1, 2014


Mungoboy 5pm.

I was born in 151 Gallowgate next door as it happens to Danish Pastry ‘ s grandad.

That was 1946. Chances are we went to same primary and secondary school but age difference might mean we never met.

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ianagainPosted on12:24 am - Aug 1, 2014


James Doleman

Book your ticket and let me know the date. Cant wait. Charlotte fest and a dissection of the value of the squad.

From BDO

Litigation
Creditors will recall, from the reports of the former Joint Administrators, that the Company
acting by the former Joint Administrators had issued legal proceedings in respect of the following
matters:
i. A claim for the return of monies held by the Company’s former lawyers, Collyer Bristow
(“CB”, “the Fund Proceedings”); and
BDO LLP 30 May 2014
4
ii. A separate claim against CB (“the Part 7 Claim”).
The monies held in relation to the Funds Proceedings are subject to competing claims by a
number of other parties in addition to the Company, with the result that the total quantum of
claims significantly exceed the value of the Fund. Whilst this litigation continues, we can advise
that there are on-going settlement discussions between the parties which may produce a
consensual solution to the claims to the Fund.
In relation to the Part 7 Claim, a significant amount of the Joint Liquidators’ time since their
appointment has been spent in taking control of and appropriately progressing this litigation. A
trial in this matter is currently set for the beginning of 2015.

See you there 😀

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ianagainPosted on12:36 am - Aug 1, 2014


So my wee interruption here is to remind us all that there are many miles and years of litigation left in this shambles.
Who’s money will it eat?
Undoubtedly the original creditors slim pickings, but ultimately yours and mine.
There’s the true consequence of Murrays profligacy.

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upthehoopsPosted on5:59 am - Aug 1, 2014


GoosyGoosy says:
July 31, 2014 at 10:20 pm
13 1 Rate This

Danish Pastry says:
July 31, 2014 at 9:35 pm
1 0 Rate This

Leadng question from @talksport

Is the demise of Rangers to blame for Celtic’s European woes? – tlks.pt/7myM88
10:30pm – 31 Jul 14
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It comes from deliberately living within their means
====================================

The demise of Rangers did not prevent Celtic from reaching the group stages last season and the season before. Mind you, I expected such a comment after Wednesday night’s debacle but not from an English based outlet. The tie isn’t over anyway, despite the mountain at the moment looking a tad steep!

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Danish PastryPosted on7:16 am - Aug 1, 2014


GoosyGoosy says:
July 31, 2014 at 10:20 pm
13 1 Rate This

It comes from deliberately living within their means
———–

And heaven forbid any club should live within its means 😀

That station loves the gospel of St Spender as favoured throughout England. But maybe they are genuinely unaware of how impoverished Scottish football is, compared to down south?
The current vulgar EPL transfer circus has very little to do with traditional football. Cue more silly wages, tattoos (‘The Anglo-Saxon Rash’, according to Germans* 🙂 ), and daft hairdos. I probably have access to most games but watched very few last year. It’s become a surreal greed-fest, imo. Change of provider means I’ll see more Scottish games, finally.

I may becoming a sad old Meldrewite but it’s the need for financial reality that is making the SPFL a more attractive spectacle — in the sense that a more level playing field is coming about and players are increasingly from the area or town they play for.

Anyway, watching the Dons past few games there may yet be a challenge of sorts. And with Celtic bedding in a new manager who looks to prioritize attack more than defence, we might be in for more entertainment all round.

*If you need an early morning titter a wee glance at this summary of a Bild article about German perceptions of Brits abroad is pretty amusing: http://www.theweek.co.uk/europe/59753/big-burnt-and-boozy-german-tabloid-scoffs-at-brits-abroad

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coineanachantaighePosted on8:11 am - Aug 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
July 31, 2014 at 9:35 pm

Leadng question from @talksport

Is the demise of Rangers to blame for Celtic’s European woes? – tlks.pt/7myM88
10:30pm – 31 Jul 14
=============================

How long did the conversation last? If I recall, there have been a few pretty bad results for both Celtic and Rangers in Europe in the last decade or so – when both teams were in the top league. (Some good results too sometimes but then if we’re talking 1 or 2 year’s results you have to wait for another decade to pass to make an honest comparison). That should have nailed it in the first minute.

Then again they could have pointed to these earlier poor results and talked about the need to make all the Scottish teams stronger. Or the real underlying problems of developing more good young players. Bet that didn’t get mentioned.

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mungoboyPosted on10:05 am - Aug 1, 2014


Apologies for off topic.
@Auldheid at 1209
2 years younger, Auld Yin.
St A’s and then the M so you’re right about alma maters.
Probably stood next to each other getting the belt off wee Joe for being late.
Back on topic and something you might be able to influence.
Is it just me or does anyone else REALLY miss the posts and contributions from our old friend Eco?
If you’re lurking, Eco, which I suspect you do, then please join us again.

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on10:33 am - Aug 1, 2014


Is it just me or does anyone else REALLY miss the posts and contributions from our old friend Eco?
________________________________
Sources on Twitter within the past hour claiming the EC preliminary investigation into CFC receiving state aid have found,unsurprisingly, no discrepancies.
A quick read of Eco’s research would have saved them a lot of time and money.

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mikk67Posted on10:59 am - Aug 1, 2014


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
August 1, 2014 at 10:33 am
3 0 i
Rate This

Is it just me or does anyone else REALLY miss the posts and contributions from our old friend Eco?
________________________________
Sources on Twitter within the past hour claiming the EC preliminary investigation into CFC receiving state aid have found,unsurprisingly, no discrepancies.
A quick read of Eco’s research would have saved them a lot of time and money
______________________________________________________________________________________________

Only means the conspiracy goes higher up the tree than we thought…. 🙂

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Galling fiverPosted on11:49 am - Aug 1, 2014


Never mind bears not taking note of warnings by RTC, PMcG etc. I think tiger Tim may have pre-empted the whole state aid thing decades ago.

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Tic 6709Posted on11:58 am - Aug 1, 2014


mungoboy.

Is it just me or does anyone else REALLY miss the posts and contributions from our old friend Eco?
If you’re lurking, Eco, which I suspect you do, then please join us again.
=========================
I was going to ask the other day but was a bit worried in case there had been bad news and I had missed it.
I concur with mungoboy, Eco get yourself back here.

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mungoboyPosted on12:38 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Tic,
Wasn’t a case of bad news re Eco.
Seem to recall there was a bit of a spat between him and another poster re his land deal articles and it became a bit personal.
Walking away took place and he’s not been on since.
A great loss, in my opinion.
Scottish Fitba needs more and more guys like him at this time.

View Comment

John ClarkPosted on12:38 pm - Aug 1, 2014


The ‘Herald’ has a wee spread this morning relating to ‘Future News 2014’,a gathering of young Journalism students from various countries to give them real, practical experience of reporting in the context of the CG.
Magnus Llewellin, editor of the ‘Herald’ says: ” I was struck by the enthusiasm and curiosity of the students and by their HUNGER [my capitals) to learn about a profession that still plays such a crucial role in keeping the public informed….”

In the context of sports reporting, I wonder what the students would learn from the ‘professionals’ in the SMSM about ‘keeping the public informed’, or how to satisfy their enthusiasm and curiosity by doing some real investigation and factual reporting of, say, alleged corruption in, say, the administration of, say, football?

Llewellin, I have to say, was speaking without a trace of irony, utterly unaware of the fact that a story as important as checking out the truth of any allegation of such corruption has consistently been unexplored and investigated.
Which fact, of course, gives rise to a possibly bigger story about any ‘institutional’ and press corruption lying behind the refusal to carry out such exploration and investigation.
I suspect that one of the lessons the students on ‘Future News 2014’ will have to learn is how to come out with hypocritical cant about the ‘profession’ with the ease and facility of experienced editors.

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tykebhoyPosted on12:48 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Tic 6709 says:
August 1, 2014 at 11:58 am
6 0 Rate This

mungoboy.

Is it just me or does anyone else REALLY miss the posts and contributions from our old friend Eco?
If you’re lurking, Eco, which I suspect you do, then please join us again.
=========================
I was going to ask the other day but was a bit worried in case there had been bad news and I had missed it.
I concur with mungoboy, Eco get yourself back here.

Eco is very much alive and kicking and still posting about land deals on Continuing Random Thoughts
http://continuingrandomthoughts.wordpress.com/2014/07/29/football-forecast-a-guest-post-by-steerseer/comment-page-2/#comment-26141

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nawlitePosted on2:01 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Re Eco, in the immortal words of Joni Mitchell “Don’t it always seem to go, that you don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone”.

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mungoboyPosted on2:04 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Nawlite,
I’m sure Eco would be the first to oppose the planning permission if anyone tried to put up a parking lot on Paradise!

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indy14Posted on2:18 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Sources on Twitter within the past hour claiming the EC preliminary investigation into CFC receiving state aid have found,unsurprisingly, no discrepancies.
A quick read of Eco’s research would have saved them a lot of time and money.

———————-
Wouldnt it be sweet indeed if a little note sent to the commission were asked to also, and only for openness and fairness, to investigate a claim (overheard in a pub by a dug), that the old rangers (now deceased) had been given state aid in purchasing the land for the training ground named after their disgraced former Chairman? (that they are now trying to distance themselves from by calling it Auchenhowie all the time) were to prove fruitful and that they would be charged also with a state aid breach…oh how most of us on here would laugh (TD’s not included in laughing)
ECO I miss you too you big handsome devil

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futbolPosted on2:24 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Questions linger on Rangers’ fall
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28239070

A chain of events ensued, but the potential liability of the tax case remained a central issue.”

Would that be the illegal non-payment tax that caused the liquidation?

Is this the BBC’s attempt to get back into the big hoose for reporting purposes this season? They seemed to have already been allowed back in for the moneyspinning 7s …

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Tic 6709Posted on2:35 pm - Aug 1, 2014


mungoboy says:

August 1, 2014 at 12:38 pm
====================
Cheers mungoboy.

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Sergio BiscuitsPosted on3:15 pm - Aug 1, 2014


indy14 says:
August 1, 2014 at 2:18 pm

Congratulations on what must be the longest quoted post in TSFM history. Did you miss anything out?

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JimBhoyPosted on3:30 pm - Aug 1, 2014


@Danish regards talksport qn…. I would suggest most team in the SPFL and some in the championship would more times than not beat the current rangers team. They would probably be a better outfit with a new manager, I think most would agree AMcC has certain lackings that will be exploited when they are not playing against the guy who delivered their mail.

I think the talksport qn was more around the old rangers with effectively better players than the new rangers have, but that is long gone and with the current state of play is likely to remain so for quite some time/indefinitely.

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JimBhoyPosted on3:38 pm - Aug 1, 2014


From a Scottish football perspective and this is gonna sound daft coming from a Celtic fan, if Celtic do not qualify for European football this season, the likelihood is that we will probably lose 3 or 4 players to meet that income shortfall and maybe purchase a couple of cheaper individuals. This would be of benefit to the whole of Scottish football as it would probably make competition tighter and I would hope allows for the further development of some younger players generally.
OK it does sound daft but i am excited about the coming season and seeing more positives across the board in the SPFL teams.. So far so good, more to come and all this because of Armageddon… Loving it.. Have a great weekend folks…

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Danish PastryPosted on3:48 pm - Aug 1, 2014


And he scrolled, and he scrolled … I hope he’s been awarded a packet of Sergio Biscuits 🙂

@Scotzine referring to SoS as having an interesting interview coming up:

Exclusive Q & A with Colin Kingsnorth, Director and co-founder of Laxey Partners, our biggest shareholder, who… fb.me/3KNGZno86
12:53pm – 1 Aug 14

And …

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sons-of-Truth/633884633356656

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AllyjamboPosted on4:02 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
August 1, 2014 at 3:48 pm

Totally stupid question, but is ‘Sons of Truth’ some kind of dodgy spoof ‘Sons of Struth’ or is it a genuine TRFC supporters’ group?

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on4:10 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Allyjambo says:
August 1, 2014 at 4:02 pm
0 0 Rate This

Danish Pastry says:
August 1, 2014 at 3:48 pm

Totally stupid question, but is ‘Sons of Truth’ some kind of dodgy spoof ‘Sons of Struth’ or is it a genuine TRFC supporters’ group?
———–

You are absolutely right. The SoT and NOT the SoS.

Did not realise until just now as I was reading comments and they were all so contradictory of SoS.

What a bloody mess. Jings, crivvens, etc.

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AllyjamboPosted on4:56 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
August 1, 2014 at 4:10 pm

The Q&A with Kingsnorth on SoT seems a bit unreal, as though the person who asked the questions is doing the answering too. At best it seems to be something the board might have put together to put out their side of the story in response to SoT, but I’d say it’s more than likely a spoof. The supposed Kingsnorth answers read more like the answers someone at least 40 points lower in the IQ scale would give than I would expect from a man in his position. But I may be totally wrong as I know absolutely nothing about these people… Who are these people? We have a right to know!!!

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John ClarkPosted on5:01 pm - Aug 1, 2014


mungoboy says:
August 1, 2014 at 12:38 pm
‘..Re Eco, in the immortal words of Joni Mitchell “Don’t it always seem to go, that you don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone”.’
——–
One of the many things that distinguish this blog from many other ‘football related’ blogs is the effort made by posters to establish facts , ask intelligent questions and discriminate between PR pap,fair reporting and absurd allegations.

Ecobhoy is one of the many shining examples of industrious fact-finding and research (with references to source material)and personal experience of subject matter, that have appeared for our education and further understanding, along with the chaps who know their way well enough about balance sheets, football budgeting , AIM,property valuation, planning procedures etc.etc to be able to let the rest of us see a little more broadly into these aspects. Not forgetting the wonderful ‘archivists’ who can quickly find earlier material and documents and who said what and when.
I certainly found eco’s posts about the land-sales allegations absolutely top-notch, and would have wished him to be accorded more respect by those who criticisms were wholly unjustified.
This or that aspect of the ‘saga’ might not appeal to everyone, and some subject matter is taxing and difficult to get to grips with. But no one is required to read any post, or follow every ‘thread!’ And not every topic or argument can be reduced to one line assertions or denials.
Ecobhoy-come back.

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AllyjamboPosted on5:09 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Can I just echo what others have said today and ask ecobhoy to return to our fold and continue our enlightenment.

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nawlitePosted on5:15 pm - Aug 1, 2014


SO if this Sons of Truth crowd are pro-board (as I assume they must be to score an interview with the Laxey folk)is this just another example of them trying to fool the fans? What I mean is have they deliberately chosen that name for their group to fool supporters of the Sons of Struth into going along with their message, thinking “if the Sons of Struth say that, I support it”.

It really is getting Monty Python as we’ve said along…You say Judean People’s Front; I say People’s Front of Judea; You say Sons of Struth; I say Sons of Truth!!!!

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easyJamboPosted on5:17 pm - Aug 1, 2014


I think I need some time to digest this:
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=13548&newsCategoryID=1

Scottish FA/SPFL harmonise rule books

Friday, 01 August 2014

The Scottish FA and Scottish Professional Football League have announced a harmonisation of their respective rules to further streamline and enhance the governance of the game.

A new protocol has been agreed by the governing body and the league organisation to address areas of overlap contained within their respective rule books.

The creation of a single league body has already effected a streamlining of league administration and a working party consisting of senior members of both the Scottish FA and SPFL has provided a further series of improvements.

Where there is overlap between the rule books, the protocol has established which organisation has primacy. In total, 15 areas of overlap have been identified and harmonised. These include:

• Insolvency events
• Financial records
• Breach of Registration Rules
• Match-fixing
• Spectator behaviour
• Dual Interest
• Disclosure of payments and benefits

The harmonisation protocol will be implemented for season 2014-15.

Andrew McKinlay, Scottish FA Director of Governance: “Both the Scottish FA and SPFL have been aware of the need to review our respective rules and regulations to pinpoint areas where there has been an historic overlap.

“We have worked collaboratively to identify these areas and provide guidance on who has jurisdiction in the first instance. The protocol will enable us to minimise such crossover in future and also provide clarity to member clubs, supporters and other organisations.”

Iain Blair, Scottish Professional Football League Secretary: “The SPFL was created at great speed at the start of last season after the approval for league reconstruction. Since then we have worked with the Scottish FA, principally through its Football Governance & Regulation department, to tighten-up some of the areas that we felt were not as clear or as efficient as they should have been.

“Now, the protocol allows us to establish a clear understanding of which body has primacy in a number of governance areas across the game.”

Download the harmonisation document here…

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2014-15/Harmonisation1a.pdf

View Comment

upthehoopsPosted on5:48 pm - Aug 1, 2014


easyJambo says:
August 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

A new protocol has been agreed by the governing body and the league organisation to address areas of overlap contained within their respective rule books.

The creation of a single league body has already effected a streamlining of league administration and a working party consisting of senior members of both the Scottish FA and SPFL has provided a further series of improvements.
=======================================================

Where there is overlap between the rule books, the protocol has established which organisation has primacy. In total, 15 areas of overlap have been identified and harmonised. These include:

• Insolvency events *************
• Financial records
• Breach of Registration Rules *************
• Match-fixing
• Spectator behaviour
• Dual Interest
• Disclosure of payments and benefits

Given they have already demonstrated a failure to apply the rules on the two I’ve put asterisks next to, what is the point of them even bothering. Unless of course it should have read as below.

‘Where there is overlap between the rule books, the protocol has established which organisation has primacy. In total, 15 areas of overlap have been identified and harmonised. These will be applied fairly across the board unless the club concerned plays out of Ibrox Stadium. In that case we reserve the right to make up any particular rule which purposely avoids the proper course of action being taken against that club.’

View Comment

John ClarkPosted on6:06 pm - Aug 1, 2014


easyJambo says:
August 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm
‘..I think I need some time to digest this:
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=13548&newsCategoryID=1.’
‘Scottish FA/SPFL harmonise rule books’
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If ever there was a sign of the incompetence of present and previous SFA boards, this must be the most blatant. The top authority having to ‘harmonise’ with an inferior body,rather kick arse!Unheard of!

It is also, no doubt, intended to rule out any present or future questioning of the legitimacy of dodgy actions perpetrated prior to such harmonisation.

What’s that, Campbell? Major rules of the senior body broken? Some difference in the junior body’s rules? Ok, let’s legitimise everything, and ‘harmonise’ to ensure no retrospective application of the said rules can be demanded.But mind and leave some discretion in case one of our newer clubs runs into bother, eh?

CG had our football authorities accurately assessed as gutless, cowardly, conniving destroyers of integrity in Scottish Football.’Rule harmonisation’ behind the PR speak, is just an extension of the fundamental wrongdoing that has for so long skewed the whole of our game.
In my opinion.

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AllyjamboPosted on6:43 pm - Aug 1, 2014


easyJambo says:
August 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

• Insolvency events
• Financial records
• Breach of Registration Rules
• Match-fixing
• Spectator behaviour
• Dual Interest
• Disclosure of payments and benefits…

Well they could have just put, ‘things Rangers have been involved in… and got off with’. I think that would have just about covered it.

But they are clearly admitting things were wrong, so why don’t they just come out and say it? Why don’t they say that the rules they were responsible for administering were not good enough on the first time of testing, or, rather, on the first time of testing when the club involved was Rangers?

It will be interesting if the new rules are still as ‘Rangers friendly’ as they were before the hartmonisation ie would the ‘get outs’ have worked under the new rules?

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Danish PastryPosted on6:55 pm - Aug 1, 2014


Allyjambo says:
August 1, 2014 at 4:56 pm
7 0 Rate This
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I suppose proper fans who hope a team called ‘Rangers’ survives can take some comfort from the fact that the board are spooked by SoS.

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