Many years ago, I read an article in some legal magazine or other which, to my mind, pointed out something that I had always presumed was obvious.
Namely, that unlike his English Counterpart, the Scottish solicitor is not just a drafter and processor of legal documents, he ( or she ) is a man of business who furnishes advice, and as often as not, will recommend a course of action – possibly involving many different steps or procedures- in any given situation.
Without going into an academic analysis of what this means, may I suggest that a simple definition is that the Scottish solicitor does not always simply do what they are told but will furnish the client with advice for, or against, a certain course of action.
The same applies to accountants and other professionals in my experience. When discussing any business situation, the client should always be aware of the pros and the cons. From there he or she makes a decision based on the advice given – which advice may be taken or rejected.
That is how things work.
If you think about what I have said above, then it follows that one of the principal things an adviser should do for any client, is to suggest a course of action that keeps the client out of court.
Court is a place of last resort. Litigation of any kind is expensive, brings uncertainty, is time consuming and acts as a barrier to unfettered and uninterrupted business planning, strategy and progress because no one can ever be sure of the outcome or the consequences of a court case.
In olden days, court meant choosing your champion to fight against your adversary’s champion. If your guy knocked the other guy of the horse and killed him outright with the lance then you won. It didn’t matter if your guy was also hit with your opponents lance and died a week later as a result – you were still the winner because the other guy died first.
Eventually, society did away with such courts and replaced them with courts of law and the men and women with wigs and gowns as opposed to the lance.
However, you can still win a court battle and suffer a fatal defeat as a consequence.
That is why a court of law should always be regarded as a place of last resort. No one should ever set out on a course of action which runs a high risk of ending up being disputed in court.
Sometimes, of course, a court action is inevitable. On other occasions, people adopt a course of action where the risk of things ending up in court is seen an as an acceptable risk.
This morning’s Daily Record ( and indeed yesterday’s edition ) is spouting David Murray’s mantra that HMRC knifed Rangers but adds there are no winners here. How very MSM. How very lacking in business understanding or searching for the truth.
So, let me explain something.
When you sit down with a firm of accountants who specialise in aggressive tax avoidance schemes such as an EBT scheme or a DOS scheme, one of the things that are spelt out to you is that the scheme you are about to embark upon may well be, indeed is likely to be, challenged in a court of law. Especially if you do not administer it to the letter.
Often as not, the client will be asked to sign up to a contract which specifies that the client will pay hefty fees to lawyers and accountants for setting up the scheme and that fee will include a contribution towards legal fees arising in the event of a legal challenge to the scheme.
That is stipulated at the very outset. You pay £x in advance because you know you are likely to be sued. You also get the benefit of advice which is designed to ensure that your scheme is absolutely watertight in terms of the law, but crucially, there is a rider which states that in the event that the court rules against you then the accountants or lawyers will not be held accountable as you are entering into the whole process knowing that there is a big risk of litigation – and you are told in writing that while you shouldn’t lose, you might lose.
This too is the way it works.
The business advisers will not want litigation, but from the outset they will cover their backs and make it plain to the client that if you sign on the dotted line for an aggressive tax avoidance scheme then you can expect HMRC to take you to court.
Accordingly, the protestations screaming out from the Daily Record this morning about how HMRC killed Rangers are balderdash and bunkum of the highest order.
HMRC did not knife Rangers, they did exactly what was expected of them in the circumstances and the people at MIH knew that the day they started off on any one of their tax avoidance schemes.
Taking the risk in the first place killed Rangers or Rangers PLC if you prefer.
However, the events of yesterday and the day before throw up some other matters worth considering and remembering.
The first is the woeful state of the Rangers accounts by 2005 when there had been yet another share issue underwritten by David Murray. Those accounts showed Rangers PLC to be in a shocking financial state, despite all the rhetoric and dressing from the Directors and the Accountants.
More or less immediately Murray chose to put the club up for sale as it was obvious that the financial traincrash could simply not continue.
However, despite years of searching no buyer could be found.
Further, it should also be remembered that Rangers PLC knew all about the small tax case long before Craig Whyte came along. Those liabilities stemmed from around 2001 but at no time during the Murray era at Ibrox did Sir David put aside the money to pay a bill which no one at Rangers disputed as being due at any time.
Whyte stressed the need for this to be paid long before he ever got the keys to the Marble Staircase, but it wasn’t and there can be only one of two reasons for that.
Either Sir David just didn’t pay the bill concerned ….. or he couldn’t!
The fact is that long before Craig Whyte appeared David Murray could have paid that bill or reached an agreement to pay that bill. However he didn’t and for a period of several years he simply decided he wanted out …. Needed out ….. at any cost!
There is no doubt that he gambled hard and fast with Rangers Football Club, and their finances and their supporters loyalties. He knew , or ought to have known, well in advance that a prolonged and regularly used aggressive tax avoidance scheme, legal or not, was bound to attract the adverse interest and attention of HMRC.
Sir David Murray has been lauded up and down the country for his so called business acumen and business knowledge. He was knighted for the same and received all sorts of unprecedented backing from banks and other institutions.
Does anyone reading this really believe that such a man did not have the foresight, or the advisers around him who had the foresight, to see and know that a large and prolonged dispute with the revenue authorities may well have an adverse effect on the viability and sellability of his business?
Such a suggestion is simply not credible.
Further when the HMRC interest came, Murray’s men, if not Murray himself, did their very best to try and hide the existence of the scheme, the documents surrounding the scheme, the details of the scheme and the intention of the scheme.
They hid all this away from HMRC, The SFA, The SPL and anyone else in authority, with the result that those authorities and bodies had no option but to run to the courts, set up tribunals and convene formal hearings.
When someone does not tell you the truth, starts hiding documents and obfuscating that is the way it works.
However, that is not all that yesterday brought.
The news that Collier Bristow have apparently agreed ( through their insurers no doubt ) to pay the liquidator of Rangers some £20M shows that taking into account the litigation risk, someone somewhere thought it worth making a payment to make a bad situation go away.
Imagine that? What bad situation could that be?
Would it be that somehow or other, creditors, officials and all sorts of other people were misled by a leading firm of solicitors in relation to the affairs of Rangers PLC? Could it really be the case that things were so bad financially at Ibrox, that the only way for even Whyte to be able to get the sale to go through at the princely sum of £1 plus the official bank debt was to have his people mislead funders and eventual creditors?
What does that say about David Murray’s stewardship and the absolute urgent need to get Lloyds TSB out of the picture? Was there really no one else or no other way to take on the debts of Rangers PLC? Apparently not — and that can only be because someone chose to gamble with the finances of the club and leave it in a precarious state.
I am told that when Lloyds took over that account they expressed amazement at how MIH and Rangers PLC were allowed to run up the debts they had with HBOS. Apparently there was incredulity at some of the figures and covenants.
So , when we read in the Record this morning that the HMRC Big Tax case inadvertently brought down Rangers it is very easy to overlook the debt due to the bank, how it arose, the sums due to the same bank through MIH, the extent of the sums due, the banks attitude and the possible attitude and course of action had Whyte not taken them away.
Remember that the same bank stepped straight into MIH and began selling off its assets, and that low and behold the same management team who engineered the EBT scheme have openly admitted that there is an unexplained shortfall in the employees’ pension scheme of over £20 Million.
Do you think the employees who have lost out on pension provision are the slightest concerned about whether the tax avoidance scheme funds and their use are legal or not ? – or do you think they might argue that the money used for these so called “discretionary payments” should have been used to fund a proper legally constituted pension scheme which the company and its directors undertook to pay into under contract?
There is still substantial debt due to Lloyds by MIH and part of that debt is the amount by which David Murray and MIH underwrote and guaranteed that last share issue of Rangers PLC in 2004/2005. The principal sum due under that guarantee ( excluding interest and charges ) was greater than the principal sum claimed by HMRC in the big tax case.
Go figure.
However, this saga is far from over especially with regard to “contractually due” severance payments which look as if they will come back to the FTT in the event of the parties concerned not reaching agreement on the tax allegedly due.
Now, this is interesting because apparently there are a number of documents in existence which show that certain players received a payment of £x at the end of their contract as part of a severance deal.
At the time these were made, my recollection is that under normal severance agreement legislation the first £30,000 would be tax free but after that any sums were taxable.
The FTT has never been asked to rule on these payments, and has never heard any evidence about the legality or otherwise of paying these sums gross of tax into an offshore trust. All of that may yet be to come.
However, the most interesting part of this for me is that further court action may be taken in relation to these matters failing agreement between HMRC… and whom?
Rangers PLC ( the employer ) is in Liquidation so perhaps HMRC might claim some of the money from the Liquidator who has just received the £20M from Collier Bristow – then again it could well be that Ticketus have something to say about that.
In his last statement about MIH, David Murray openly proclaimed that the company was all but finished and revealed the pension shortfall and so on – so I doubt if any agreement of any meaning will be reached there.
That then leaves those who supposedly benefited from the contractually due severance payments – namely the players.
Maybe, in the absence of a now defunct employer, they will be asked to cough up the tax.
No doubt they will all go and consult their lawyers and accountants – the men and woman of business – who will give them their best advice – but you can bet your bottom dollar that any such advice will include a paragraph or ten which starts something along the lines of “ However, here is the potential risk in the event of you deciding to …………. “
That is the way it works……. And always has done.
hector says:
July 22, 2014 at 10:03 pm
‘…the blog is becoming so inward looking and its remit is so narrow..’
———–
There have been some very interesting, amusing, informative OT posts on this blog over the past couple of years.
But,hector, I’m sorry to say that none has been so off the wall as this one of yours.
What is this blog about?
It is about the exposure of the rottenest, most perfidious and most damaging act ever perpetrated( because it affected, and continues to affect, ALL of Scottish football ( not just one or other particular club here and there) by the Scottish Football authorities.
An act that has virtually destroyed any belief that the very Authorities are NOT of the same stamp as the SDMs, CWs, CGs, BS’s, IA, and every other set of initials associated with the spivs, liars, cheats, con men, fraudsters, convicted criminals, rabble-rousing thugs, sleekit whisperers, highly partisan politicos and cheaply, cheaply, and cheaper- than- cheaply bought ‘journalists’ , who have been associated with the death of RFC and the creation of TRFC .
An act that demonstrated, and continues to demonstrate, that the very Authorities themselves are the equivalent of the Lance Armstrongs of the world.
Cheats, in their support of a cheating regime set up-and known to be cheating- by a knight of the realm.(And here, forgive me, I must metaphorically expectorate).
The Commonwealth Games are not (at present, and in my opinion) within the remit of this blog. They may well come within it at the first evidence of any kind of ‘institutionally’ backed cheating and covering up of any such cheating.
That’s what this blog is about.
In my opinion.
Nawlite I have asked that my post be removed from the Scottish FOOTBALL monitor. If it was the Scottish RANGERS monitor I would not have posted . You may just have defined the problem with Scottish football in the space of a couple of posts and for that I take my hat off to you and will retire to the naughty step.
StevieBC says:
July 22, 2014 at 8:01 pm
Or will TRFC just not be ‘allowed’ to finish 5th…?
On the pre-season tour TRFC have not had a penalty, yet every second or third game last season they got one.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Does anybody have any stats on the average penalties per game awarded to the old Rangers when playing their team versus the average penalties per game awarded when playing foreign teams ?
If there is no difference this could suggest that domestic Refs are no different than foreign Refs in this respect
John Clark I have enjoyed and respected your work and since my first post I have asked my post to be removed as it is out of kilter with the blog and I can do no more. But in the meantime if my post is attacked I will defend it as it is what I think . That is what I do. All the best. TSFM please remove.
incredibleadamspark says:
July 22, 2014 at 10:41 pm
I certainly did no such thing as attack or criticise UtH for his views; I disagreed with UtHs views and there is a big difference in that. In no way was it personal. I stand by what I wrote so if I crossed a line that would’ve sent UtH to the naughty step you can point me in that direction and I’ll take a seat there for a while. Wouldn’t want any preferential treatment
=======================
I pointed out that my post stated I did not believe ANY other Scottish club would have received the preferential treatment Rangers got. Your view was my post was bringing the blog down and was suitable only for a Celtic site. Feel free to stand by what you wrote but it is clear what I meant.
Hey, the current and previous board of Sevco/TRFC have been involved in common wealth games since they started, which resulted in common wealth gains. See no reason not to discuss …
😆
You’ve no doubt all seen this, but just in case … in France clubs are banned and do cease to exist if they collapse in unpaid debt:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2689721/Zinedine-Zidane-Patrick-Vieiras-club-AS-Cannes-brink.html
Le Armageddon.
GoosyGoosy says:
July 22, 2014 at 11:41 pm
4 2 Rate This
StevieBC says:
July 22, 2014 at 8:01 pm
Or will TRFC just not be ‘allowed’ to finish 5th…?
On the pre-season tour TRFC have not had a penalty, yet every second or third game last season they got one.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Does anybody have any stats on the average penalties per game awarded to the old Rangers when playing their team versus the average penalties per game awarded when playing foreign teams ?
If there is no difference this could suggest that domestic Refs are no different than foreign Refs in this respect
=====================
In the interests of pedantry, it was Cluster One who made the above observation about penalties.
However, I have also thought for a while that it should be possible to confirm whether TRFC has benefitted from a statistically significant higher number of penalties, or more opposition players being sent off than their league counterparts.
Can’t remember how – and too lazy – to do regression analysis on this, but it should be doable.
IIRC, are there not economists/scientists on TSFM who might get excited about doing that analysis ?
Mibbees. 🙄
StevieBC says:
July 22, 2014 at 5:50 pm
6 0 Rate This
wottpi says:
July 22, 2014 at 5:39 pm
…
However I believe to story is totally different for accountants
===============================================
Since I can tell you are keen to read an accountancy body’s regulations on Conduct & Oversight… 😕
“Bankruptcy
Bankruptcy should not of itself affect membership or student registration. A member or student who is declared bankrupt is required however to notify the Institute, and should continue to act professionally within the Laws of the Institute, including the Code of Ethics…”
http://www.cimaglobal.com/Members/Members-handbook/Conduct-and-oversight/
=================================================================
Stevie and others…I can assure all that the moment a sniff of the word “bankrupt” hits the nostrils of my beloved ICAS regulators, a man from ICAS will be despatched, at my expense, to camp on my doorstep, with my resignation already written, and a pen at the ready for me to sign.
This also applies to ICAEW and ACCA…!
Siena in Italy went out of business this week, the interesting line from this story i have highlighted with arrows. It’s interesting how the rules are set for where you go depending on where you “died”
Siena and Padova have officially gone bankrupt after failing to register for the Serie B and Lega Pro seasons.
In Italy each club must prove its financial stability before beginning a new campaign and failure to do so results in not being registered for the season.
Siena had been on the verge of collapse for several years, as their main backers the Banca Montepaschi di Siena were caught up in a financial scandal.
President Massimo Mezzaroma resigned earlier this month in order to help find a new buyer quickly, but Siena could not be saved.
They missed today’s deadline to provide paperwork covering taxes and unpaid wages, as their debts amounted to €70m (£56m).
Siena had been founded in 1904 and were in Serie A most recently in 2012-13.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The club title can be bought by a new owner, but they’ll have to begin again from Serie D
Padova failed to register for the Lega Pro campaign after their relegation, so will be able to resume under a new owner from the amateur Leagues.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Padova Calcio were founded in 1910 and were most recently in Serie A in 1995-96.
It now remains to be seen whether a club will be plucked from Lega Pro to fill in for Siena or the division reduced.
Sorry if some find the following irrelevant but whilst we have genuine fans of TRFC who post on here the following shows what they and the rest of scottish football are up against. I fear that the promotion of TRFC to the Premier league will herald great unrest and turmoil for all.
‘Tonight the state aid fc hordes are in the capital to play a Champions League match whilst their own cesspit awaits Her Majesty and the eyes of the world having had a significant upgrade thanks to the public purse.
Lawwell and his cohorts have certainly done a number on us and must feel untouchable given they have gotten away with their efforts to date.
From a football point of view this is the second season in a row that they have had a free run at the Champions League thanks more to their efforts off the pitch than on it. I’m not saying we would have won the title in either of the last two seasons but we were deprived of the chance by the disgusting and vengeful actions of our enemies and their co-conspirators. It is impossible to understate how damaging that has been to us in a football sense or financially.
Despite all of the infighting amongst the support we should never forget that our real enemy, has, is and always will be that lot. Too many appear to have forgotten that or choose to ignore that fact in their haste to bad mouth fellow fans or past and present board members.
A march was held on Saturday by some of the support.
I look forward to the match by the united support demanding justice and reparation for the wrongdoings administered against us when we were not even allowed that basic premise of our legal system, being presumed innocent until proven guilty.
We have been through a lot in the last few years and the events of tonight and tomorrow only serve to rub our noses in it.
We have a long fight in front of us but everyone of us has a duty to past, present and future Rangers to make sure the various issues are not forgotten and the perpetrators don’t get away with it.
United as a support we are unstoppable and should be feared. “
wottpi says:
July 22, 2014 at 10:37 pm
As I suggested a few weeks ago when there was talk of the SFA possibly not taking up the lease on Hampden – Make Murrayfield the National Stadium, the footballing authorities can pay for upgrading the east stand thus probably being able to increase the capacity to 75-80k?. Good transport links, trams from the airport, trains, buses, close by in the city centre, away from the west coast nonsense, traditional ends, home advantage if Iborx and Celtic park used when Hampden not available etc etc. What’s not to like??
————
If Murrayfield is a good venue for football then I would say there is everything to like with the suggestion.
I was surprised that there wasn’t more discussion about the proposed review of the use of Hampden when announced. My personal experience of attending a “neutral ground” semi final at Ibrox and also a final at Celtic Park make me wish for a better solution than using these grounds if Hampden does cease to be the venue used. Apart from the apparent difficulty this year that saw a home advantage given to Rangers, more widely using Ibrox and Celtic Park would appear to me a reinforcement of the domination of the Scottish football landscape by two clubs, both in terms of perception and also presumably a financial reward for these clubs that no other in Scottish football would regularly enjoy.
Using Murrayfield could just be a step towards a more enlightened era where Scottish football is not quite so habitually viewed through a Glasgow-centric prism.
If anyone has time, we could probably get a decent idea
This is last season in League 1 and seems a decent place to start but a good deal of work
http://www.soccerpunter.com/soccer-statistics/Scotland/League-One-2013-2014/team_info_overall/1899_Rangers_FC
Off Topic. I notice Tony Asghar set up the tour for Rangers in North America. He is also a football agent and represents a few players and David Moyes. He has a Football agent friend called Jonothan Hope, who was in the Daily Record backing John Brown and setting up promotions inside Ibrox. Maybe he is trying to get his foot in the door again.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/rangers-in-crisis-football-agent-jonathan-1131783
StevieBC says:
July 23, 2014 at 1:54 am
“However, I have also thought for a while that it should be possible to confirm whether TRFC has benefitted from a statistically significant higher number of penalties, or more opposition players being sent off than their league counterparts.”
——————————————
I think a good statistical analysis would need to go back maybe 20 years to provide significant results. The amount of data required can be calculated for the quality of result you require. Although there are lots of websites that provide statistics, these are a fairly new phenomena and probably won’t have the historic material necessary to make the exercise worthwhile. Resort may have to be made to newspaper archives to retrieve the necessary level of detail and that is a job for a retirement, not an afternoon. Unless someone knows of a reliable database of information?
Such an analysis could not be Rangerscentric. That would just make a nonsense of the scientific method. It would need to encompass all clubs that had continually played at top flight level over a significant period of time.
It would certainly be an interesting exercise and one which the refereeing fraternity would find useful to assess their own inevitable institutional bias.
There is a subject all Scottish Clubs should be able to agree on, and it relates to Uefa’s blatant fixing of qualification rules to assist the 4/5 largest European countries .
The current position is best illustrated by Hull City ( a minor club from a large European league) and compare them to Feyenoord ( a major club and a former European Champion, but not from a large European League)
Hull City have never , not once ever , played a game in Uefa competition. They have been provided with a Uefa co-efficient of 16.949. Provided as in given free, never having done a single thing to earn it.
Feyenoord have earned a coefficient of 13.362 and as mentioned previously are former European Champions and a significantly important club in European terms.
That on its own is a scandal. However when you look further into the bias shown to Hull City ( and this happens most years to minor teams from England and other large leagues) the position moves from scandal to outrage.
Compare Hull with Aberdeen.
Aberdeen are also a former winner of a European tournament , beating the worlds biggest and most successful club in Real Madrid.
Aberdeen will have to beat 2 teams , including a team from Holland , to reach the stage in competition at which Hull City were given free entry. It gets worse , Aberdeen because of their low seeding have to play a club from the number 1 ranked country in Europe in Spain. Hull were seeded to play either a Slovakian or Serbian club , both nations way down the rankings of Uefa.
To compound this fix, Hull will earn exactly the same co-efficient points for beating AS Trencin of Slovakia as Aberdeen would if they get to play and beat Real Sociedad. Fifa use a merit system that earns a country more points for beating higher ranked countries and less for beating lower ranked countries.
Uefa refuse to implement this as they continue to fix the game in favour of the largest nations.
What precisely are Regan and Ogilvie at the SFA doing to improve the chances of Scottish clubs ?
A fair system should be the founding principal of all Uefa competition. Instead Uefa are rigging their competitions in favour of a very small number of large member associations .
This isn’t just unfair on Scottish or Dutch clubs, below is a list of some of the clubs Hull City have been given a totally unfair advantage over.
Sampdoria
Feyenoord
Monaco
Zurich
AEK Athens
Aberdeen
Rosenberg
Torino
St Etienne
Zurich
Dinamo Moscow
Red Star Belgrade
CSKA
Auxerre
Winners of European tournaments , finalists and others with long histories of credible participation, all given a harder task than Hull City, just because Uefa are fixing their tournaments to make it easier for English , Spanish and German teams.
Hull City didn’t even win a Cup competition or finish in a league qualifying position to be given this preferential treatment.
On a wider sporting integrity theme, there has been an interesting development in the field of horse racing.
This story has gained prominence as the owner of one of the horses, ‘Estimate’, is Her Majesty The Queen.
I’m not sure how common it is to find morphine in horse feed but it sounds pretty suspicious to me. ‘Estimate’ was one of five horses picked up in the trawl.
I heard the BBC Racing correspondent say that ‘Estimate’ was due to race again in the near future.
The template here is interesting.
First, five horses were caught so the testing works at least up to a point.
Second, Her Majesties representatives self identifying their horse as amongst the guilty parties has appeared a sop to the outrage normally accompanying doping scandals.
Third. ‘Estimate’ is a good horse, too good to be dispensed with. The scandal must somehow be ‘ridden out’.
Fourth. The high profile nature of the owner provides either ready made exoneration for the beast and trainer or some made up story concerning food contamination.
Fifth. Doping is probably wide spread in horse racing and such trawls are merely a public relations exercise to fend off the day when an animal the size of a bus eventually arouses public concern over animal husbandry techniques. Not only is it widespread but it is accepted.
The moral of the story is that there is no sporting integrity except amongst those dim enough to adhere to simpleton rules. The rest are resorting to any gaming strategy available to gain possession of a fixed result. Honour is not something to be esteemed and coveted but is to be pinned like a medal onto the chest of the next ruthless dictator in line.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/22/queen-s-horse-tests-positive-for-morphine.html
@Carfins Finest July 23, 2014 at 11:01 am
This kind of nonsense is all over the web mate and shows a real ignorance amongst a lot of the rangers support. Somebody else’s fault that rangers died, nothing to do with the current manager losing a couple of games that the owner had banked on winning to (JUST) keep their heads above water. It really does sadden me there are thousands out there who believe the BS that rangers have been hard done by, as long as the blinkers are on they will never progress and every supporter of every club outwith rangers who has a valid opinion agin that BS will be the enemy. They are digging a big trench for themselves that will take years to climb out of and much pain along the way…
As a footballing entity they will win more games than they lose this term but they may get a good few shocks along the way, then we will see the loyal support turn on their own like they did last season. As long as they see Celtic as the yard stick, pressure will be on them to spend what they haven’t got. It’s their supporters who have started this nonsense, this sense of injustice whilst a team from the Eastend get special treatment ( lol )…
Barcabhoy says:
July 23, 2014 at 11:31 am
10 0 Rate This
There is a subject all Scottish Clubs should be able to agree on, and it relates to Uefa’s blatant fixing of qualification rules to assist the 4/5 largest European countries …
————
Bravo and well said.
The idea Euro leagues, once rejected by national bodies, have quietly arrived at the back door and been invited into the front room for tea and biscuits. It’s Euro League 1 & 2 by another name.
UEFA need to bring back at least one competition worthy of the name. The Cup Winners Cup would just the ticket. A simple knock-out competition with actual cup winners gaining direct entry and scoring a proper financial reward for taking part instead of risking a loss-making European adventure. Why do the winners always get such a huge cheque? They have the honour of winning, which for most normal fans and clubs is a huge reward in itself.
I chuckled at the use of ‘masterminded’.. Sounds like a CG idea or maybe pipe dream, still it gives the various rangers forums somewhat of a new squirrel to chase whilst avoiding the real issues burdening their club.
Gers tour of India on the cards
RANGERS are in talks over a tour of India.
Tony Asghar of Revolution Sports – who masterminded the current tour of the US and Canada – is believed to be keen on expanding the Rangers brand in both India and Australia.
He said: “India and Australia are possible. Rangers is a big brand.”
Agree with you re the Hull inequalities, Barca.
Trying to think a fairer situation through leads me to only one conclusion and that is to do away with seeding, but I’m not sure that would ever be accepted by the successful clubs. And, of course, the argument is that seeding happens in many other sports. I don’t really agree with seeding, but I can see that those who have been successful deserve some recognition of that success. The situation with Hull riding the coat tails of others’ success, though, is clearly just wrong.
The way I reached the fair solution of doing away with seedings was to use Spurs as an example, rather than Hull. In their case, you have a club who regularly finish fifth in a very strong league (let’s not go into the money-go-round aspect of the EPL here), but almost never qualify for the CL and I feel it’s right to allow them an element of recognition for their regular performance in a strong league when they do. Should they get no benefit from performing well in a strong league? In a season where they qualify, do they deserve to be treated like, say, the Albanian champions who always win their crappy league but never do anything in CL qualifying? So Spurs could be drawn against Barca while the Albanians play the champions of Slovakia, say? I don’t know, but that doesn’t seem fair to Spurs, who are in theory a better team on merit. It could lead Spurs to apply to join another league (Oh no, not that again!)
I know that takes us back to whether or not 4 teams form one country should enter the CL, but that’s a whole different argument.
To try to be fair to clubs like Spurs, while avoiding the Hull situation, I come back to just removing seedings altogether then everyone is in the same boat of ‘luck of the draw’. It may throw up a first round Bayern vs Real match (or, these days, a group of death), but at least it’s fair to all.
However, is there really any chance of the big clubs, UEFA and the broadcasters even considering that for a second? I doubt it. Is it seen as just nostalgia for a bygone day? Probably.
Can anyone come up with a fairer way that gets rid of the obvious unfairness of a Hull situation, but doesn’t completely do away with seedings?
Danish Pastry: I agree with you in regards to a Euro League One and a Euro League Two tiered system.
IIRC, the old UEFA Cup was devalued once AC Milan put the spanner in the works in regards to possible failure to have European Football after Christmas.
They engineered that they would be heavily disadvantaged if they couldn’t negotiate the group stages (if you remember there used to be two group stages) and as a consequence, drop out of Europe.
In the space of a few months the UEFA Cup, which was arguably the hardest competition to win, became devalued because it was the 2nd and 3rd placed teams of each of the top European Leagues, that competed in it.
That has now been diluted to be in some cases, the 4th, 5th and 6th placed teams, plus the cup winnners from their respective leagues.
Take into account the fact that this competition is “relegated” to a Thursday, because it is not allowed to compete with a European prime time days of Tuesdays and Wednesdays; then you have a weakened tournament at the start.
This obviously ramps up with the drop outs from the Champions League, and then it becomes, again the old UEFA Cup.
This to my mind is the knock out competition and should be for the Cup Winners, who automatically qualify, with the league placing teams drawn against each other – similar to the set up now for the Champions League qualifiers.
The old Intertoto Cup allowed teams to qualify for Europe in the same way the Champions League qualifiers are set up now.
The difference then is that teams were offered the opportunity to play (the team with the best disciplinary record WTF!!), but clubs either didn’t take it seriously or refused point blank to compete.
All it did do was make you fitter than the opposition when the league season starts.
If you are an old sentimental 51 year old like myself: you judged a team’s season by how may games your team played.
If it was the bare minimum, you had a bad season. If you played 20 games more, it meant, more than not, that you had been successful and probably won a cup.
Now players are complaining that they play too many games – I would have bitten their hands off if West Ham had played more than 40 games (bear minimum) in a season!! 🙄
Most days when I get time to have a dig around the footie sites I come across the mention of rangers being Scotland’s biggest club. I have never reached a conclusion of the validity of such claim. Part of me thinks it’s much more prevalent these days as the siege mentality reaches fever pitch amongst the ‘hard done by’ bears… So what metrics could back up this claim……
— Biggest support – Would this be only in Scotland? Would this be best attended team? Would this be most merchandise sold (worldwide)? Record attendance?
— Most successful – Most trophies won? Biggest trophy won? Won’t go down OC/NC route.
— UEFA/FIFA ranking
— Most income
— Squad – Most valuable squad? The current best team?
— The team in the higher league
— The biggest backer
— A Tradition – Some old measure that is probably not relevant today
— Some other myth
I think it is widely agreed that Celtic are the best supported Scottish team worldwide. Celtic and Rangers have equally beaten each other in terms of attendances thru the years. Rangers have probably, over the years had more UK based supporters, throw in ROI and I am not sure. Rangers (OC/NC) have won the most trophies so we are told every day of the week. Celtic have won the big cup. Celtic best Uefa ranking, most income, most valuable squad, best team, higher league… Some other myth, the meeja continue to say it’s so? Or maybe with 500m fans WW rangers have it in the bag.
My post above was pretty much down to this article in the Ibrox noise and backs up whats Carfins finest posted earlier..
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2014/07/biggest-club-in-scotland-with-least.html
The euro system is a strange beast indeed. You have all the advantages discussed above for Hull et al in the UEFA Cup, but then when a team breaks through the monopoly that the big clubs have had in the CL places it becomes very difficult for them to progress at the CL stage.
Man City the best recent example of a team who have the advantage of being in a 4 team qualifying league but once qualified are given a mark to start with that puts them almost guaranteed into a “group of death” for the first couple of years of group stage participation
I’m not saying that’s wrong, it just seems that it is a surprise that UEFA/Platini have this idea in place which is at odds a little with other ideas.
JimBhoy says:
July 23, 2014 at 12:59 pm
http://www.ibroxnoise.co.uk/2014/07/biggest-club-in-scotland-with-least.html
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That’s a cracker – but how does this sad man-child navigate a complex world of unpleasant facts – he must live in an insular, 20th century ghetto somewhere away from it all, reading only rangers.co.uk and MSM propaganda to form his opinions.
Just imagine how persecuted he’s going to feel when the footballing and financial realities of next season hit the fan.
HomeGerman broadcast deal for Scottish Premiership
23 Jul 2014
German pay-TV channel Sportdigital has acquired a package of broadcast rights to the Scottish Premiership, Scotland’s top-tier soccer competition.
The contract covers the 2014/15 season, which kicks off on 13th August when champions Celtic face St Johnstone.
The deal sees Scottish soccer return to Sportdigital after a one-year absence. During the 2012/13 season, the broadcaster had the rights to 60 matches per season, including two live games per week and a weekly highlights show.
Scottish Premiership games will replace Polish Ekstraklasa coverage, which, according to the network, was not available.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Fair enough but surely they should be covering the greatest league in the world,the SPFL championship!.
Or will TRFC just not be ‘allowed’ to finish 5th…?
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I think there is a project required for ths season in the 2nd tier of Scottish football this year, a table outlining TRFC scores when awarded penalty, effect of penalty to final score, and number of opposition players sent off – again when in match, importance on result.
I really do feel this would make interesting reading at end of season and may go some eay to determin what level of “help” has been given over the season. And by importance I mean is 0-0 when given, are they a goal down, or is a decision given that clearly swings momentum….that sorta thing….
Now to the bears on here, fine, TD is you like, but clearly they have had an SFA hand up your new clubs bottom for approx 140 years to date so let’s do the acid test. If you like let’s do it for CFC too and compare.
It may also be relevant to see how many decisions go AGAINSt both.
I am not claiming one way or the other, BUT with serious competition awaiting TRFC, lets just see…..
indy14 says:
July 23, 2014 at 2:02 pm
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Ultimately though the project would mean nothing, with the greatest of respect. The official starting point is always that mistakes are honest, even if they overly favour one team, whoever that may be. What I do have difficulty with is that Refereeing issues are for Johnny Foreigner, and could not happen in Scotland. Without demonising the large number of officials who take to the field each week only to do an honest job, it is an insult to peoples intelligence to expect us to believe it is actually impossible for a Scottish Referee to act out of bias, which is a preposterous notion. However, it is a notion which is aggressively promoted by the Scottish media.
steph1895 says:
July 23, 2014 at 12:52 pm
1 0 Rate This
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Cheers Steph, the sentimental age, yes 😆 The old three-competition system worked fine, imo. I can understand an initial pool setup in the CL, but no reason why the two other competitions, or hybrid forms of them, couldn’t be brought back as simple knock-out tournaments.
There is currently too much football, everyone is trying to cash in. It’s devaluing the game (share dilution!). It was reported last year that you had EPL teams hoping NOT to qualify for the UEFA League. Farce.
PS Nice to hear about the Sportdigital deal. Just need a sponsor now. Even modest one, but who demands sporting integrity will do nicely thank you
As UTH says there is probably not a lot to be gained from the exercise. However, I have taken a little time and looked at last year and penalties awarded in the leagues. The table is ordered by ‘Tier’ and then ‘penalties per game’. Sorry for the formatting
The only thing I really take from it, so far, is that the teams that finished with a higher number of penalties in the season tended to be at the top end of the league but then they were probably attacking more. Whilst Rangers got more league penalties than anyone else, it was only two more than the next highest team. I’ll maybe add in the season earlier in time if anyone is interested
Tier,League,Team,Games,penalties,Pen/game
1,Premiership,Celtic,38,7,0.184
1,Premiership,Aberdeen,38,5,0.132
1,Premiership,St Johnstone,38,4,0.105
1,Premiership,Partick Thistle,38,4,0.105
1,Premiership,Hearts,38,4,0.105
1,Premiership,St Mirren,38,3,0.079
1,Premiership,Motherwell,38,2,0.053
1,Premiership,Dundee Utd,38,2,0.053
1,Premiership,Hibernian,38,2,0.053
1,Premiership,Ross Cty,38,2,0.053
1,Premiership,Inverness CT,38,1,0.026
1,Premiership,Kilmarnock,38,0,0.000
2,Championship,Dumbarton,36,8,0.222
2,Championship,Dundee,36,6,0.167
2,Championship,Hamilton,36,6,0.167
2,Championship,Falkirk,36,5,0.139
2,Championship,Raith Rovers,36,5,0.139
2,Championship,Livingston,36,4,0.111
2,Championship,QoS,36,2,0.056
2,Championship,Alloa,36,2,0.056
2,Championship,Morton,36,2,0.056
2,Championship,Cowdenbeath,36,1,0.028
3,League 1,Rangers,36,10,0.278
3,League 1,Stranraer,36,8,0.222
3,League 1,Ayr utd,36,7,0.194,,,,
3,League 1,Stenhousemuir,36,7,0.194,,,,
3,League 1,Dunfermline,36,7,0.194,,,,
3,League 1,Brechin,36,6,0.167,,,,
3,League 1,Forfar,36,5,0.139,,,,
3,League 1,Arbroath,36,4,0.111,,,,
3,League 1,East Fife,36,3,0.083,,,,
3,League 1,Airdrie,36,1,0.028,,,,
4,League 2,Albion,36,7,0.194,,,,
4,League 2,Annan,36,7,0.194,,,,
4,League 2,Peterhead,36,7,0.194,,,,
4,League 2,East Stirling,36,7,0.194,,,,
4,League 2,Berwick,36,5,0.139,,,,
4,League 2,Queens Park,36,4,0.111,,,,
4,League 2,Elgin,36,4,0.111,,,,
4,League 2,Clyde,36,4,0.111,,,,
4,League 2,Montrose,36,2,0.056,,,,
4,League 2,Stirling Albion,36,1,0.028,,,,
Good work scottc. I agree with you too. While there will always be dodgy decisions in games, the more attacking the team is the more penalty decisions they will get. While ally’s tactics are questionable, the game is usually played in the other teams half.
I can now say that in the previous season, East Stirlingshire (10) had twice as many penalties as Rangers (5) in the Third Division. Elgin had 6 and Stirling Albion also had 5. Penalties, in my opinion, are definitely not going to show anything other than a pretty normal curve across the whole data and no real bias. Red cards might be different but again, an attacking team are likely to draw harsh tackles and extracting that specific data needs a bit of macro work which I don’t really have time to do right now.
SCOTTC – interesting stats.
And moving slightly OT – remember when we had a brief debate recently about whether a professional player should be ‘two footed’ ?
[Might have been on the World Cup thread.]
Van Gaal took his ManU squad for a training session in the US – and I thought this was an interesting snippet…
“…As members of the public and the media looked on, Van Gaal set his players the task of shooting only with their left foot during practice drills at the Rose Bowl and was quick to rip in to players such as new signing Luke Shaw and midfielder Darren Fletcher when they failed to hit the target…”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2702464/Louis-van-Gaal-rips-Manchester-United-players-par-efforts-training-LA-dishes-praise-high-fives.html#ixzz38Iwu5HOw
scottc says:
July 23, 2014 at 3:00 pm
6 0 Rate This
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Interestingly, Celtic played 2 games more than rangers, but their penalties <> Games ratio of 0.184, is MUCH smaller than ‘T’Rangers 0.278
Although it does appear that the 1st division penalties ratio is higher generally than that of both the Premier and also Championship divisions.
Danish Pastry 1450hrs:
Harry Redknapp was the West Ham manager and he admitted he did it for a laugh not expecting to get into the UEFA Cup via the Intertoto Cup.
He was also the Spuds manager who decried the Europa League because he saw no value in it, which would distract him from the aim to finish in the top four to “guarantee” Champions League football.
We all know finishing 4th “allows” you the opportunity to play some Eastern Bloc team (who have probably gone through 2 other qualifying rounds), for the opportunity to be thrashed by the 4th team in the EPL.
All European football should be knockout and it should only be seeded in regards to the respective same country scenario.
This at least avoids a first round Milan derby, or El Classico.
Imagine that would give Platini kittens!!
Unfortunately, there is no PES scenario where West Ham can hoover up the cream of Europe and batter Bacerlona in the final, because the Champions League is a closed cabal and will remain so UNTIL UEFA grow a pair OR from left field a team out with the usual suspects wins the thing- I wouldn’t hold my breath!!
OT I know by I was tickled today listening to all the mention on the Commonwelath games on the radio and TV and the opening ceremony at Celtic. I thought of Mr McMurdo and how he must be choking everytime the name Celtic park is mentioned and to make matters worse the Queen will be in attendance ! Has she ever been to Ibrox I wonder ? now that would be something if she hadn’t but had visited the other side of the city. I hope Mr Lawell and his team and all those involved in the CG given her a warm reception. I’m sure he could get Philip to stand with a scarf for a picture … ha ha
See this blue blog isn’t overly enthusiastic about Phil’s work:
http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2014/07/you-talk-some-amount-of-shite-phil.html?m=1
steph1895 says:
July 23, 2014 at 5:10 pm
1 0 Rate This
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Times have changed. If I remember correctly the Intertoto (or a version of the same) was won by Newcastle U, which I think they’re proud of.
Last season though, you got the impression that the dual-existence of UEFA League and EPL survival was not United’s preferred lifestyle.
PS the Newcastle Europe dilemma thing was maybe season before?
Danish Pastry says:
July 23, 2014 at 5:32 pm
http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2014/07/you-talk-some-amount-of-shite-phil.html?m=1
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The lady doth protest too much, methink !
Exactly how does such an obviously inept and biased blogger cause such damage to their glorious institution ? 🙂
I hear the remaining Lisbon Lions are planning a selfie wi Lizzie tonight, with a Celtic scarf draped around her royal neck… Prepare for bear’s meltdown…!!! 😆
Phil hasn’t got everything spot on, I am sure he admits to that but what irks the bears is he seems to be far quicker in the know than them as those running the rangers do so with smoke and mirrors and the fans are well aware they are the mushroom crowd, hence they are revolting… Keep up the good work Phil and everyone else who asks questions and raises proper factual non BS material… Living in denial is not a sustainable business model and certainly not healthy for loyal fans…
JimBhoy says:
July 23, 2014 at 6:26 pm
emaining Lisbon Lions are planning a selfie wi Lizzie tonight, with a Celtic scarf draped around her royal neck… Prepare for bear’s meltdown…!!! 😆
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Will she be passing around the morphine she’s taking – http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-queen-tested-positive-morphine-3898943
@MCFC Lizzie on Jeremy Kyle show next week, they tried to make her go to rehab but ONE said No, No No…
JimBhoy says:
July 23, 2014 at 6:33 pm
9 2 Rate This
Phil hasn’t got everything spot on, I am sure he admits to that but what irks the bears is he seems to be far quicker in the know than them
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What irks them is not what he gets wrong, but what he gets right. That gets the permarage up to boiling point. The bears hate facts and love their fairytales, which is why Charles Green took about a week to weigh them up, then had them eating out of his hand. What is truly pathetic is that most of them would have Green back in a heartbeat, and as for SDM- how many bears would be against his return? Not one in ten, I would suggest. Pitiful.
Good points Neepheid..
Great work from everyone about the penalty thing. Don’t know what i started. At the time i posted i was thinking how many penalties have one team had to win a game that was maybe heading for a draw or a loss or a bad display that looked as if they were not going to get a result unless they got a wee kick start As it looks like the American refs are not as helpful. The more attacking play debate. Would they not have a more attacking play against college kids
scottc says:
July 23, 2014 at 3:57 pm
“Red cards might be different but again, an attacking team are likely to draw harsh tackles and extracting that specific data needs a bit of macro work which I don’t really have time to do right now.”
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You’re accumulating potential sources of bias that would likely need to be considered for an insightful analysis. It reminds me of the Duckworth-Lewis method in cricket that is used to adjust run scores in rain affected matches. Two statisticians sat down and examined how scoring rates varied over an innings and over time arrived at a predictor that has been adopted by the sport internationally. Equivalent nuanced analysis of football might be really useful for referees and coaches and the suchlike. The thing with cricket is that it has this history of old codgers sitting in the stand recording every single delivery. With such a wealth of detailed information the statistics become doable. Football being a faster game means that such accumulation of data has never been possible until recent technological innovations. I applaud the effort however. A start needs to be made at some point and with each attempt refinements can be guessed at.
Danish Pastry says:
July 23, 2014 at 5:32 pm
“See this blue blog isn’t overly enthusiastic about Phil’s work:”
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Judging by the accumulation of information he is a significant follower of Phil’s tweets. Personally I couldn’t even be bothered reading Phil’s input into the article never mind the insightful analysis provided to link them together. For someone “tarred with the sickening brush of sectarianism” he certainly does attract followers from unexpected environs.
The ironic thing is that the odd blog link that has been posted on TSFM recently has been remarkably supportive of the RIFC board in many ways. He certainly appears to have a regards for Graham Wallace. Perhaps this is just a fiendish ploy to throw the Blue Brigade into confused disarray.
After the first 10 minutes of shortbread and tartan that opening ceremony turned into something very moving.
I expect Celtic fans sensed a great big celebration of karma tonight.
The Big Yin and Pumeza were highlights though. The song title in huge bold letters and her magnificent voice will not be forgotten soon.
Was also trying to work out if Craig Whyte will be representing Jersey, BVI or the Cayman Islands in the Long Distance Spivery event. Apparently it’s underway already at the Rugby 7s venue.
Castofthousands says:
July 24, 2014 at 1:41 am
1 0 Rate This
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Strange that they still won’t acknowledge the fact that he does have sources who seem to pass on join-the-dots types of tips. I’m not sure he claims the infallibility that some would like him to have. The whole situation appears chaotic/fluid so I doubt even those running Ibrox know what’s going to turn up next,
There is right and there is might.
UTT verdict polarises debate over what level of cheating can be considered acceptable rather than uniting fans around what constituites fair play.
I am so glad Rangers died for the same reason I am happy that Holland didn’t win the world cup. I only wish that the cheating bar sterward Robben had missed the penalty that put them out, but twas not to be.
Not my sport.
My sympathy for TRFC fans is vanquished by the delight that their attempts to cheat were unsuccessful.
Hardly bridge building but there you go.
No no… no no .. no no .. no no .. no no … no no there’s no rangers.
Sorry Ryan.
Cheating is still cheating.
You’re supposed to throw the ball back!
I wish your new club every conceivable misfortune!
Re Phil McG. He clearly has a source within Ibrox, and little, if indeed any of what he writes is denied by the club who resides there. Again the Ibrox fans appear to have the wrong target as forces from within work far more effectively against their club than a blogger who has a good source. Ultimately Phil can only write what his source tells him. As the fans rage against him, the smokescreen only thickens, and the ones really causing damage to their club continue unabated.
PMGB will not get everything right, especially as he seems to publish every titbit he uncovers almost immediately. If we compare his revelations with that of Woodward and Bernstein when they revealed all about Watergate, possibly the greatest ever piece of investigative journalism, we must remember that their investigations ran until they were ready to print the whole story. It would have been very dangerous to print every piece of ‘muck’ they uncovered, as they uncovered it – for their own safety! We can be pretty certain that there was much they uncovered that later proved to be unsubstantiated, and therefore not published, and much that led them up the garden path. Woodward and Bernstein couldn’t just publish the truth, as they knew it, they had to ensure it was undeniable, and provable.
Phil, on the other hand, isn’t dealing with the President of the United States. He is merely uncovering corruption in football. He may well be in danger from a few loonies who mostly have difficulty biting their thumbs, but they are not the CIA. His only real danger is if he publishes something that could be challenged successfully in court, or, at least, have something published by TRFC/Murray/McCoist etc that refutes his writing in a believable way. Just saying that an ‘Irish blogger’ is making life difficult for TRFC doesn’t diminish Phil’s blogs one iota.
Things are very fluid at Ibrox, as they are in most businesses, especially dodgy ones, and much of what he has written will have been true at the time of writing, but may not have come to pass, or have been ‘got around’ (directors’ loans) or kept hidden from public view – and that is very easy with a compliant media that doubles as TRFC’s PR machine.
Whether or not he has a high placed mole inside Ibrox, or even if he is being deliberately fed mis-information, the fact remains that TRFC are in dire straits and the bears would be well advised to investigate Phil’s claims for themselves rather than to dismiss them purely on the grounds that he is a Celtic supporter.
Here’s an easy one for all supporters of TRFC to test out Phil’s claims. He quite recently stated that Deloittes have told the directors of RIFC plc that they cannot use the ST money they have collected until they supply the auditors with a viable business plan for the coming year. This is clearly a very damaging claim for RIFC plc whether true or not. Instead of demanding things that the board can legitimately refuse, and justifiably refuse, such as irrevocable assurances over the heritable properties, they should be demanding that the board make a statement denying this claim by Phil (and as many others as they dare). If it’s not true, then it would be easy to refute as every company can correct erroneous claims by journalists without fear of censure from the Stock Exchange, and, indeed, might well be beholden to do so.
Of course, as we have witnessed for a number of years now, the Rangers supporters (TRFC now) with the nous to work out for themselves this type of reality, choose not to ask these questions, for fear of the answers!
I have been meaning to mention this before, I find it obvious in the extreme so let me share.
When one introduces oneself to someone new, how do you do so? “Hello my name is Bob nice to meet you” or whatever right? You don’t say “Hello my name is Bob I am utterly brilliant and a millionaire, no really, and I’m not gay”
By introducing yourself in the second example you are saying “ok he might not be a millionaire clearly isnt brilliant and he probably is gay”
TRFC constantly harping on about rangers “now, then and forever”,”since 1872″, 140 years of history” yadayadayadayada really does ultimately prove that they really aren’t.
OK Celtic have done similar recently but thats playing to the gallery and scoring a few gaping points. TRFC are blowing a hole in their own facade every day in my opinion
Allyjambo says:
July 24, 2014 at 10:11 am
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Allyjambo – I think it’s even simpler than that – Phil keeps pointing out details of a what they fear most and know in their hearts, but don’t want to think about too deeply. They know they are the ugly sisters and don’t thank anyone for pointing out that they are not Cinderella and that the prince will never take them to the ball. And yes you’re arse does look big in that – very, very big.
The Board and Ally and MSM and numerous hangers-on would never be so rude as to say such things of course – lest it slows the flow of money to their respective pockets – but Phil is like that wee annoying kid who is too loud and cheeky for his own good and who they’d love to give a sly clip round the ear when the chance arises.
He must drive them nuts – and I think he loves every minute 🙂
A more telling stat on penalties is not the total received but when they were awarded. Receiving a penalty in the 85th minute when you are loosing 1-0 is far more beneficial than one when you are already winning. The old joke goes that when hearing rangers drew nil – nil the first question was who missed the penalty??
Follow on to my previous point about UEFA
The system has had changes to it previously. The biggest areas of bias are allowing teams with no previous participation to use a national co-efficient, the way the co-efficient is calculated and the starting point in competitions based on national coefficient.
Taking these one at a time,
1 UEFA will argue that allowing a team with no history of its own to use a national coefficient prevents a Man City of 2011 for example being a pot 4 team which imbalances the draw.
That point has minor merit , but is significantly outweighed by providing a leg up and an easier draw to clubs from large successful countries. It allows them to earn coefficient points in an easier manner than if they were able to face strong opposition. This system builds in a coefficient bias in favour of large nations. It makes it easier for them to earn points and perpetuates the seeding advantage.
2 Fifa award ranking points depending on who you play. Scotland will earn far more points for beating Germany than they would if they beat Gibraltar. Uefa use a system that sees Arsenal earn the same points for beating Zulte Waragem as Celtic gets for beating Barcelona. The seeding system ensures Arsenal/Man City/ Chelsea/ Man Utd ( and ditto for Spain and Germany) will always play lower ranked opponents than Celtic, resulting in a vicious and biased system that has no sporting integrity
Compare Celtic with Man City over the last 2 seasons.
Man City have earned 32.64 points . In the last 2 years they achieved a last 16 finish this year and the previous year finished bottom of their Group with 3 points.
Celtic have done the same , but in reverse order . Celtic earned 23.51 coefficient points for exactly the same achievements as Man City. When you extrapolate this over the 5 years used for rankings, Man City have an inbuilt advantage of 22.82 points which is absolutely not of their own making.
The practical effect of this is that if Celtic were given the same number of free ranking points as Man City & all other English clubs, then Celtic would move from 62 to 32 in the rankings. Celtic would be ahead of Liverpool in the rankings if only points gained on their own merit were used , instead of being 30 places behind them.
3 Where you enter the competition has a huge impact on your ability to progress. The Champions of Scotland , as we are currently witnessing are having to play the games most critical to their financial well being from Mid July onwards. Some of the players have barely stopped playing from the FIFA World Cup.
The club has its preparations interfered with in a way that is not countenanced for a 4th placed club in a large nation. The knock on effects of too short a rest period after seasons end, and the loss of tour revenue, compound the financial disadvantage. It is nothing short of a blatant fix that the 4th placed club in England has only one qualifying tie to negotiate, whilst the Champion of a smaller nation has to negotiate 3 rounds.
What could be done to bring Sporting Integrity to Uefa competition ?
1 Dispense with the country element when calculating individual club ranking. The aim should be to remove these entirely , at the very least a significant reduction leading to total removal should be phased in over 3 years.
2 Move to the Fifa ranking points system , again preferably in one move, but at the very least over a 3 year period
3 Increase the number of Group places available to Champions . Restructure the qualifying rounds to ensure that there is a fairer balance . No member association should have more than 2 automatic entrants to the Group stages, most should only have one automatic entrant. If Uefa limited 2 automatic places to Leagues ranked 1-3 then this allow a further 6 Champions automatic access .
This would then increase the numbers of non Champions who would attempt to gain entry via the qualifying rounds. The aim should be to have more National Champions in the competitions and less clubs who finished 3rd and 4th in their Leagues.
This would have the knock on benefit of improving the Europa League. The Europa League should be similarly revamped so that a club finishing 2nd in its own national competition does not face a more difficult route than a club finishing 7th.
The motivation from UEFA has to change from being that which prioritises automatic Group stage participation from England , Spain , Germany & Italy. Uefa were spooked by threats from large clubs from large nations to breakaway. The risks to the large clubs of breaking away are too great now . The CL is too well established to be threatened by a few clubs. Uefa need to start properly representing ALL of their member associations, and Regan and Ogilvie need to start representing their member clubs interests in a much better manner than they do at present
Barcabhoy says:
July 24, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Follow on to my previous point about UEFA
================================
Excellent stuff – but just as Billy Bragg said “This isn’t of court of justice son, this is a court of law”, Sepp and Michel might say; “This isn’t an association of sport son, this is an association of business and power and gravy trains for the lucky few – who intend to keep it that way.”
90 Day Update
Today is 90 days since highlights of the 120 (sic) day review were released.
How is it going Graham?
What progress have you made against each of those objectives?
Any snippets of good news for the fans you promised transparency?
Any bad news for the fans you promised openness?
Did I miss the invitation to the update press conference?
Is your silence the true measure of the darkness faced by those who put their trust in you?
http://rangers.g3dhosting.com/regulatory_news_article/377
Allusion says:
July 24. 2014 @10:11am
Re PMCG
“If we compare his revelations with that of Woodward and Bernstein……………… we must remember their investigations ran until they were ready to print the whole story”
I accept mos of Allyjambo`s excellent post, and, if I may, like to add a little.
The Watergate break in occurred on 17 06 1972.
Woodward and Bernstein, as the two most junior reporters on the staff at the Washington Post, were assigned to cover this small, local weekend burglary.
From then on they published a trickle of small articles, printed on the inside pages, and under the strict editorial control of Ben Bradlee.
On October 10 1972,they had their first FrontPage story with the news of Donald Segretti.
By this time Woodward was receiving information from “Deep Throat”, and both he and Bernstein were collating “non denial denials” from others involved.
Now, Woodward went to great lengths to protect his source, and did not reveal the man`s name until “Deep Throat” died in 2008.
However, the principal villains in all of this, Haldeman, Erlichman and President Nixon new the identity of the leaks in October 1972.
Haldeman told Nixon at 1:48 pm on 19th October, that Mark Felt ,Deputy Head of the FBI was the source, a FACT later confirmed by Woodward.
They concluded that they could do nothing about Felt, because he knew too much, he knew everything, and if sacked, would go on the network.
Now, on a smaller scale, do we have a similar situation at TRFC ?
Has the leaker been identified as requested by Deloittes (PHILMACGIOLLABHAIN), and to some extent curtailed?
Nixon eventually resigned in1974 after a string of arrests and prosecutions of his henchmen.
There may be some time to go before the whole Ibrox story is known.
Edit Allusion should be Allyjambo
CliffHanger says:
July 24, 2014 at 11:47 am
The old joke goes that when hearing rangers drew nil – nil the first question was who missed the penalty??
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My username on RTC was “Rangers nil? Who missed the penalty?” as per the old joke, but when I tuped over to TSFM I changed it because “Rangers NIL” was by that time universally recognised as being shorthand for “Rangers Now In Liquidation”, and the “joke” no longer made sense.
I really miss my old identity, though, and regret changing it.
Is anyone aware of any mechanism whereby I could claim that “Jack Jarvis” is the same entity as “Rangers nil? Who missed the penalty?”, continue to use the old name, take credit for the posts that were well received but not the blame for those that were panned? Anyone?
Rangers fans on a high today, Celtic fans not so happy apparently as the red arrows blew red, white and blue smoke over Celtic park and the Queen was in the stadium…. LMAO
Good luck to the dandy Dons tonight, they gave my nephew his break into pro football a few years back. They put him up, took him all over at a time when the other team in for him were charging parents half the fees to play in tournaments… Thankfully that is no longer the case at the large Glasgow team.
Tonight should be a really big night for Scottish football. We have 3 teams playing, all with a realistic chance of progressing in the Europa League. Come on, Motherwell Aberdeen and St Johnstone, we are all behind you, give it your best. The SMSM may be playing it low key (what a surprise ) but I am sure that you carry the hopes of all real Scottish football fans. Despite all my cynicism about the governance of Scottish football, and the part played by the clubs, I want you all to win. Yes, even me. So get it done, lads. Scotland is proud of you.
How Sad and Desperate is This ?
Like Signing A New Player http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/724994704?-11344:801
As The Rangers target Scott Allen is reported to be going to Easter Road, Andrew Dickson counters on the The Rangers website and newsfeed with Ally saying Lewis Macleod’s return from injury is like signing a new player. What? Squeeze the other one !!!!
Are they so desperate to gull the gullible with good news that they’ve stooped to this utter bollocks.
It says so much about how Ally and Andy regard the intelligence of their fan base – thick as pig sh*t.
And I don’t think they are alone at Ibrox.
Jack Jarvis says:
July 24, 2014 at 1:13 pm
I really miss my old identity, though, and regret changing it.
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Sorry mate, the administrator sold your history to a big ‘anded Yorkshireman. But you can buy some shares in your old identity’s holding company – which are a lot cheaper than they were – and might last another year or so if you’re lucky.
Jack Jarvis
Try putting your preferred name in the Nickname field in your Profile.
Then select it as your Display Name and save your Profile.
Then logout and login again.
Then post something.
@MCFC So they will be letting Lewis McLeod go next season then, he will be 21 so a prime target as they look to re-sign Bocanegra on a free…
@Neepheid well said mate I should also have mention M’well and the Super J’s on my previous posting… Best of luck to all the Scottish teams in Europe.
Why would the meeja post out supportive news for the 3 teams tonight when they can post the latest rambling from AM on his super tour of the US/Canada and link Forster and Van Dijk to half a dozen teams…
Jack Jarvis says:
July 24, 2014 at 1:13 pm
‘.My username on RTC was “Rangers nil? Who missed the penalty?….’
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I wondered where you had got to, JJ.
Good to be reminded of what I considered at the time the wittiest blog name among a number of really good names.Bring it back into use!
Of course AM the wee cheeky chappie to some has a pretty good anagram of his name in COMICAL SATIRIST, just thought I’d share that piece of nonsense with you… I was bored earlier.. 🙄
And of course rangers international you have TRANSITIONAL GREEN RAN
oddjob says:
July 24, 2014 at 1:06 pm
‘…There may be some time to go before the whole Ibrox story is known..’
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I think the full,simple, story of how RIF(IL) came to such an inglorious end at the hands of a ‘sports’ cheating-minded majority shareholder and at the hands of the chancer to whom he sold the shameless cheat of a club, is for all practical purposes just about known.
The bigger story by far-the readiness of the Football Authorities to be just as cheating- minded, for possibly as many years, and certainly since the death of RFC and subsequently, is still to be fully unearthed and disclosed.
We don’t yet know even the half of it and, possibly, Regan and Doncaster, as relative new comers to Scottish Football administration, didn’t know the half of it, and may still not know!
It’s quite likely, though, that our older hacks and editors in the SMSM (including BBC Radio Scotland) knew damn fine what was going on a decade or more ago, and stayed schtum, whether for venal career reasons of their own,or out of misplaced loyalty ,or out of the need to keep within the oblong square.
It will, I agree, be some time, possibly not until after the deaths/resignations of significant people in football and the media, before we get right into the whole mucky laundry bag, and see the filth lying at the bottom.
John Clark says:
July 24 2014 @ 3:48pm
Oddjob says…
John well said.
The difference between Woodward and Bernstein and the MSM was that they were two young hungry reporters striving for the truth and at the same time taking on the most powerful man in the world.
They were guided and controlled by a razor sharp editor in Ben Bradlee, who probably frightened them more than anything else.
Ok, they had an informant to help, but informants are volatile, sometimes dangerous, since they have to protect their own “assets”.
At some stage, whether it’s by HMRC or BDO,there will be a call for collection of outstanding monies.
It will be interesting at that time, to see what comes out of the wood work.