Good Afternoon.
As virtually anyone on the internet who follows Scottish Football has come to realise, there is a reasoned and determined attempt at ignoring the content of the Charlotte Fakeovers files on the part of the mainstream print media— and indeed by the broadcast journo’s to an extent.
There is widespread speculation that the accessing of the information provided by Charlotte the Harlot was not all above board and the reluctance of the journalists to mention or comment on the documents, so far published on the internet, is often explained away by the lawyers allegedly advising that the content is tainted and so on.
That indeed might or might not be the case, and only the editors, lawyers, journalists and so on will truly know what their stance is on the revelations. Some will want the whole thing suppressed and others will be desperate to get into print, but thus far are frustrated in any attempt to do so.
However, as the documents do appear on the net only to be quickly followed by file disappearances and so on, there is an ever burning question which must be asked and thrown open to debate and argument.
The issue is not just how independent are the Sports Press in Scotland, but whether or not the relationship between certain sections of the press and Rangers or The Rangers is in fact lawful and deserving of football sanctions.
There is no doubt that many big businesses, local authorities and Governments use the services of PR firms and the likes to get information out to the public and to put their slant on any given situation. That is fair enough.
However, in recent days we have seen the release of documentation which, if accurate and true, shows that a leading Scottish PR company were specifically employed to place stories with the press which were designed to damage the reputation of, to embarrass or cause problems for certain other teams and personnel involved in Scottish Football.
Again I stress that all of this is subject to the caveat that what Charlotte is publishing may or may not be real and accurate. However, if what has been produced is in fact the genuine correspondence between the club and its professional advisers then that correspondence needs to be looked at.
The SFA and indeed the SPFL are the bodies that lay down rules which govern the conduct of clubs and their officers and employees.
So looking at these regulations let me just repeat some of them here:
Fisrt the rules of what was the SPL and which I presume are the rules of the SPFL:
A3.1 In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.
A3.2 No Club, either by itself or its Club Officials, shall by any means whatsoever unfairly criticise, disparage, belittle or discredit any other Club, the Company or the League or in either case any such other Cub or the Company’s directors, officers, employees or agents (which shall, for the avoidance of doubt, exclude supporters).
The SFA handbook at article 5 places obligations on members to observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play, and to refrain from engaging in any activity which would constitute a breach of sections 1, 2 and 6 the Bribery Act 2010.
The details of the Bribery act can be found here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/23/section/2
Basically, I think these rules mean that you cannot criticise belittle or try to damage the reputation of a club outwith the rules of the games and must at all times behave with integrity, in a sporting manner and with THE UTMOST GOOD FAITH!
The details,as released by Charlotte, show that there is at best a conflict of interests at times with various parties being both employed by the club and paid by radio stations or newspapers to comment on matters relating to all aspects of Scottish Football. As a member of the PR staff at Ibrox presumably such employees are paid to tow a certain party line when commenting in the media and so throw a spin on any given set of facts and circumstances that suits whoever is in control of Ibrox.
Further, it has been suggested that certain individuals acting in this way can also represent the views of for example Walter Smith — and so act as their mouthpiece if necessary.
Such practices may be unpleasant and undesirable but not necessarily against the laws of the game. It would just mean that the newspapers and broadcasters concerned cannot be regarded as independent or objective in their comments or views — they are merely towing an employers line. In short they are HMV— His Masters Voice!
Equally, we have seen supposedly independent journalists and editors referred to in such a way that it is clear they are being asked to spin news a certain way for whatever reason — including the suggestion that if they do not comply then some kind of action will be taken which the parties concerned would rather avoid — such as private matters becoming public.
However, of far greater interest is the suggestion that where necessary the newspapers or whoever will be used to spread negative stories about another club, its employees, directors or whoever.
Such a position may well amount to a breach of articles 3.1 and 3,2 of the SPL ( now SPFL rules) and against the principals set out in the SFA handbook.
Both the SFA and the SPL ( SPFL) has a press office and legal officers.
Both grant rights to broadcasters and journalists, and allow members of the press access to their officers and officials.
Both bodies are free to set out what is acceptable conduct on the part of clubs in this area…… and what is not!
Without even alluding to the detail of the Charlotte revelations, or needing to enquire into the details of the Charlotte documents, I would have thought that the governing bodies would be capable of issuing a formal reminder, to all clubs currently playing at any level in Scottish football, of the content of these rules and that any breach of the rules will not be tolerated.
Of course the matter becomes more convoluted if any officers of the SFA or SPL were involved in the employment of any PR companies or agencies on behalf of a member club and engaged in briefing any such agency about what to say when it comes to the affairs of other clubs. Surely you cannot have an executive officer of a governing body who is in any way linked to the employment of an agency which breaks rules on behalf of a member club?
However, few of these people ever appear on the airwaves to answer questions on a personal basis, and very few expose themselves to questions from the public.
However, many of the commentators and journalists named in the Charlotte documents are regulars on the airwaves and could, in theory, be asked whether or not they are no more than “Their master’s voice” as would appear to be the case if the Charlotte documents are in fact genuine.
If the Scottish Footballing Public are to be entrusted with the truth — and why shouldn’t they in this era of open and transparent football governance– then I think they are entitled to enquire direct whether or not the journalists, players, ex players,managers directors, broadcasters and governing body officials believe in articles 3.1 and 3.2 of the SPFL rules and article 5 of the SFA handbook?
Oh– and maybe the same people could provide some practical examples of what they would consider to be breaches of these rules and what the appropriate sanctions might be?
Specifically– do the actions mentioned in the Charlotte documents ( if true ) fall within the football rules or not?
Or do the SFA and SPFL just ignore placed press releases and comments?
It would be interesting to know.
Auldheid says:
July 31, 2013 at 2:37 pm
Publishing the financial details of Rangers will be a litmus test of the SFA’s resolve to do what they promised about applying rules without fear or favour.
===========================
Call me an old cynic, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Transitional year, other priorities, reconstruction, changing landscape, take your pick from a list of excuses as long as your arm, but do not ever expect transparency from the SFA in anything to do with a team playing at Ibrox. And don’t expect any noises from the SMSM either- they will be totally on board with whatever shabby cover up the SFA decide on.
Lest we forget,
Sir Barold Hatchback @BartinMain 10m
From @rangerstaxcase , back in April 2011. Scottish media- hang your heads in shame. pic.twitter.com/GkzhyZgh96
Reilly1926 says:
July 31, 2013 at 2:07 pm
9 0 Rate This
Had a quick look at RM. This one from “Bawburst” made me chuckle. So far none of his Berr chums have put him right.
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Posted Today, 10:26 AM
Have heard a few things about us dumping debt via oldco which are in a word bollox, it is about time the present executive made it quite clear that nothing was dumped, the guilty party are hmrc who forced liquidation for a claimed debt they were not owed.
Is BDO or anyone else going to sue hmrc over this after they hmrc lose their appeal.
***********************************
For years (more than I care to remember!)I have enjoyed Friday nights with the boys in various boozers. Putting the world to rights, commenting on the indigenous flaura and fauna (talent), and generally having a good time. However, for the past 18 months one subject has been kinda subliminally declared taboo and just not touched upon. The comments of the above poster, ‘Bawburst’, are , sadly, more mainstream than you may imagine.
It wisnae us. The taxman shafted us. The SFA / PL have an anti RFC agenda. 140 years. WATP. Hunners in the bank. Demoted. Dignity (kills me every time).
The havoc wreaked by these people is beyond measure and I am sure I am not the only one whose social life has been adversely affected.
Keep at them.
Not The Huddle Malcontent on July 31, 2013 at 12:34 pm
14 0 Rate This
Carfins Finest. says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:14 am
14 1 Rate This
I notice that it is being widely reported that Season Ticket sales have increased for most teams in the new SFPL. This is great news for the clubs so how about this.
Most games will still have reams of empty seats. Would it be possible to allocate these seats to people who are unfortunate enough to be out of work and cannot afford to get to the match. Easily policed in these days of electronic wizardy. The offshoot may be more merchandise,programmes food sales etc and ……………..
Sadly it’s not only the unemployed who are struggling to afford to go to matches. Working families are receiving food parcels from charitable organisations in a greater number than ever before. The financial crisis not to forget caused by the type of scallywag that this site abhors. Believe it or not the MSM are actually wrong for blaming the low attendances on the death of RFC. It’s the kind of people that killed RFC who have also destroyed the financial state of our country as a whole. Bringing this sort of person to task is why I follow this blog so closely and I’m sure is the case for many others.
Just as well he qualified his statement with a “richest in Englad” because we know who the richest in the UK if not the world – debt free and a surplus of money ready for the transfer market (note it is always called a warchest – not biscuit tin, like their “rivals:). However Exeter chairman does make a reference to boom and bust and tightening the purse strings so maybe he does not know the correct way to run a proper club,,,,,,,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23507974
Exeter City are ‘richest club in the country’, says chief executive
Exeter City chief executive Julian Tagg says his club could be regarded as the richest in English football.
The Grecians are owned by a supporters’ trust and the club have operated on a tight budget for several seasons.
“We’re probably the richest club in the country – the reason I say that is because we don’t owe anything,” Tagg told BBC Spotlight.
“But we could also say we’re the poorest club because if something goes wrong there’s no back-up.”
The Exeter City Supporters’ Trust took over the ailing club in 2003, and Tagg – who has been involved with the Grecians in various guises for around 17 years – admitted that the ownership model was not without its difficulties.
“It’s very difficult because of what you’re up against,” he said. “If you’re in a business where the opposition are paying twice as much, then it’s very hard to stop your best people leaving. It’s the same for us.
“Over the years, there’s numerous examples of teams who’ve suddenly raced past us with a lot of money – but they can also race past you in the other direction.”
Exeter have made just two signings during the off-season, and have seen several experienced players leave the club.
“We continue to make little short strides and stay on a firm footing but it is very frustrating,” added Tagg.
“The fans have bought into it and understand it but it’s still frustrating for them. The rest of football continues along this strange path of boom and bust but there’s more and more businesses buying into what we’re doing for the city as a whole.”
Reilly1926 says:
July 31, 2013 at 2:07 pm
15 0 Rate This
Had a quick look at RM. This one from “Bawburst”
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you know if he has a twitter account? Would be good to engage!
Sheri @CheSheri 2m
One of Hearts creditors is an offshore company owned by Romanovs son. Milson Capital Corp are due £1,223,989.43. Not looking good for CVA.
Caveat Emptor says:
July 31, 2013 at 3:56 pm
Reilly1926 says:
July 31, 2013 at 2:07 pm
____________________________________________________________________________________
Very interesting comments…. I live a long, long way away from the west coast of Scotland. I did however grow up and spent my formative years there…in fact actually more years than I care to recall. I currently live in the far east and I am lucky enough to have the opportunity to travel around various countries in the region…I have come across fellow countrymen on several occasions over the years and there are several stories to tell…most of them not so good unfortunately…however, in relation to this point: around about May this year I happened to be in a wonderful bar in Nagasaki, Japan. Now this is a place I am lucky enough to frequent several times a year and I know the owner and regulars well. On this particular evening I was there with a colleague from Scotland enjoying a few post meeting cold beers…..as time wore on the conversation spread around the bar as it does…..I ended up talking to a large Japanese fellow who just happened to be wearing a Barcelona top….so of course the inevitable conversation turned to the events at CP last year…he had saw the game and was very complimentary about Celtic and Scotland in general…it was only then I realised that he was babysitting for the guy next to him who it became rather obvious very quickly was an unrepentant Sevconian who I guess was there working in the MHI shipyard as some sort of technical specialist guy. Now I am sure normally this guy would be a perfectly responsible member of society, however within about 3 seconds it was obvious that this gentleman had had way more to drink than he should have…anyway….
After butting into the conversation with some rather quaint anti-Catholic/Irish insults that I had not heard for a long, long time he then then proceeded to inform the entire bar that “it was the taxman that done it”……eh? Yea sure….a lot of very confused and non-plussed looks from the pretty much entirely Japanese clientele in the bar….against my better judgement I weighed in with “well if you had payed your tax then……” and that was enough to enrage yer man….unbelievably he took a swing at me right there in the bar…..to say I was shocked was an understatement…..of course he was so pished he missed by a mile but this being Japan all hell broke out….luckily his “babysitter” got him away out the bar before the owner really went to town on him…
For me I was totally mortified…..as was my mate and fellow Scottish man who still has to live back in Glasgow….
It took some explaining to our Japanese friends and I don’t think that they ever really got it…..
Anyway…the point is…yes…the fact that “the taxman did it” and it was no fault of “ra gers” does seems to be a common perception…even all the way out here……
Love and peace……..
paulsatim says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Reilly1926 says:
July 31, 2013 at 2:07 pm
15 0 Rate This
Had a quick look at RM. This one from “Bawburst”
==================
you know if he has a twitter account? Would be good to engage!
******
Paul – you would be spending your time doing something much more useful – like checking the sell by dates on your yoghurts in the fridge than engage some of these folks – having tried one evening to engage Chris Graham as I thought surely he would be educated enough to debate sensibly, after a while I got abused by him, set upon by a pack of his wolfpack and then blocked so am no longer able to post on Ranger Standard or his Twitter. Waste of time when they are that far gone – your opening statement of well, if the HRMC are the ones responsible for your illegal demise, why don’t you sue them for the losses? – will be answered with cries of child abuse etc. Would advise against it sadly.
Is that not a sad indictment on where we are though that we cannot engage?
@Exiled…
Engagement does not appear to be an option at present.
Their emotional trauma has been too great the downfall of Rangers too public.
Moreover they are being fed a narrative that all is well with “Rangers”-it isn’t.
This time next year that basic truth should be fairly obvious-I give it no longer than that-although the warning signs are already there for those who are able to see clearly.
Exiled Celt says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:31 pm
LOL, you’re prob right! Are you also “The Exiled Tim” on CQN?
From The STV report into HMFC debts, does this imply there are 3 options?
“BDO reveals that rescuing Hearts through a CVA is its first objective. It lists achieving a better result than liquidation as the second priority, with winding up the club and realising property values the last resort in the event that the other two are not possible”
What then is the option between CVA and Liquidation?
And although not good for Hearts (I would hate to see that happen), at least BDO confim what happens to a “club” in Liquidation, it gets wound up!
PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:43 pm
That gives me a nice warm feeling, Phil!! Off to CP now.
paulsatim says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Exiled Celt says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:31 pm
LOL, you’re prob right! Are you also “The Exiled Tim” on CQN?
*****
No sorry – I cannot claim his stuff to be mine 🙂 I do lurk on CQN but only place I post is on here and RTC before with the odd pure Celtic post subject on KSDS or Phil’s site
PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:43 pm
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Phil, regarding the troubles surrounding Rangers – are you in a position to comment if the club has a safety certificate or not?
I understand that each club must confirm with the SFA on 30 July that they have a certificate in place.
So down Tynecastle way.
Lithuanian Banks etc are owed £25m
HMRC £1.8
Player £0.5m
Footballing debt £0.1m
Therefore wider creditors/community owed around £1.1m
I know there has been jiggery pokery with what the debt was and how is was restructured by Vlad but when he took the club on the level of debt was a reported £20m.
In running a club for eight years they have added £5m in debt when comparing the balance sheets at either end.
Nothing to be proud of as Vlad should have been working on reducing that original £20m figure as opposed to fannying aboot, however someone remind me what the final debt was an the oldco and how many millions they had pumped into the club/company over the years compared to Hearts?
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/interview-with-dr-frosdick/#more-3900
I interviewed Dr Frosdick and posted it now for the hard of thinking among the Celtic support (yes, they obviously do exist).
😉
fara1968 says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:18 pm
——-
Great Point Sir.
PhilMac 5.18
Probably best that the good doctor gives Las Fallas in Valencia a miss then!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tdemf2h3rs
Neepheid
I post the rules etc not in expectation they will be heeded but so that we will know they are not.
However SFA introduced an amended club licensing section on finance that apart from writing in exceptional dispensations also made provision to publish what clubs told them.
As I said we shall see what they publish about The Rangers. If nothing what is being hidden?
From Gersnet. A reasonable post from a TRFC fan.
http://t.co/MUMmtiSo9A
It is commendable what the DAFC fans group etc have achieved. Also the efforts of the HMFC fans.
But the system stinks, those who run up the debts, poorly manage the clubs affairs ( in creative if not corrupt ways ) get a wee ban from being a director, and walk away without consequence.
You can fail a disclosure check for a job because you have a conviction only football fans can qualify for.
You can steal state money by the million in a collar and tie, but claiming extra giros will land you in jail.
What a wonderful justice system we have. For some.
Rumour on Twitter that Bert Kassies, the man responsible for the UEFA coefficient, has confirmed by email that the New Rangers will be treated as a New Club in the same way as Derry. Interesting ……
Sorry, should have provided link …
https://twitter.com/Celticlaird/status/362590378769137665/photo/1
beatipacificiscotia says:
July 31, 2013 at 7:41 pm
Rumour on Twitter that Bert Kassies, the man responsible for the UEFA coefficient, has confirmed by email that the New Rangers will be treated as a New Club in the same way as Derry. Interesting ……
=================
Anybody want to have a wild guess at how the Sevco supporters will respond to this news…? 🙁
StevieBC says:
July 31, 2013 at 8:02 pm
0 0 Rate This
beatipacificiscotia says:
July 31, 2013 at 7:41 pm
Rumour on Twitter that Bert Kassies, the man responsible for the UEFA coefficient, has confirmed by email that the New Rangers will be treated as a New Club in the same way as Derry. Interesting ……
=================
Anybody want to have a wild guess at how the Sevco supporters will respond to this news…? 🙁
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I assume denial will be the order of the day, followed by nonsense explaining how the man responsible for the complex mathematics involved in coefficient calculations has got it wrong. I checked to be sure, Derry City do indeed appear twice in the coefficient list. Rangers will too if they ever qualify for a European mention.
I notice that Coral are referring to our friends as The Rangers FC (Glasgow) tonight in the friendly at Dens Park. Oh, there will be boycotts no doubt!
It’s all too easy to lose focus while concentrating on other events …
So would like to endorse comments of other posters in recognising the fantastic avhievements of the fans consortium of Dunfermline FC …. well done one and all and Congrats ….
Bawsman says:
July 31, 2013 at 9:48 am
“Charlotte Fakes is Craig White.
Discuss :smile:”
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The various audio may not entirely exonerate Craig Whyte of involvement in potentially fraudulent activity, I suspect. It would not be risk free to expose such widespread malpractice when the possiblility of implicating oneself exists.
” This time next year that basic truth should be fairly obvious-I give it no longer than that-although the warning signs are already there for those who are able to see clearly. ”
Evening Phil,
I am an engaging Rangers fan who does not share your apocalyptic vision, the financial viability of the new Rangers business model depends on the loyalty of its fan base, and I see no signs of this waning. If Rangers use up all of the 20 million to bankroll the club back into the top flight then so be it, I am not interested in the fortunes of short term investors, they knew the risks involved. There is no economic data that persuades me it will take more than 20 million to achieve this goal in fact the opposite, the decision to freeze ticket prices makes your gloomy economic forecast ……questionable.
I predicted Rangers could not survive if they had to start in the 4th tier, and this was based on my lack of faith in my fellow Rangers fans, I have been proven wrong and I have you and other Celtic bloggers to thank for this. What I did not build into my calculations was the power of the internet to influence opinion, and you and your ilk have done more to galvanise the beleaguered Rangers support than any PR company, maniacal executive or corrupt officiado.
I genuinely thank you for your efforts.
Dundee 1v1 RFC(IL).
I see Peralta (trialist) scored tonight and I remember when he signed it was on condition he could obtain a work permit.
Why can’t our SFA publish on their website the date a work permit is applied for and obtained along with its expiry date )if applicable) for any foreign player irrespective of the team he signs for?
Why can’t our SFA publish on their website the date and expiry of registrations of every player legally permitted to play in our leagues?
Just asking like for the sake of transparency. Is that too much to ask for?
Steerpike @ 10.30pm:
“the financial viability of the new Rangers business model depends on the loyalty of its fan base”
No, it doesn’t. If it depended on the loyalty of the fans, the old club would also have been financially viable – but it wasn’t. If it depended on the loyalty of the fans, Hearts would be financially viable – they aren’t. The financial viability of the New Rangers business model depends on the loyalty of the owners.
The current owners are not loyal to anything but themselves.
If anything, the blind loyalty of the vast majority of Rangers fans has made the situation worse for the club, not better.
Shameful is the behaviour of jack media
Shameful ripping off folk by this nonsense
SFA board should resign in disgrace.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:30 pm
“….I am an engaging Rangers fan who does not share your apocalyptic vision, the financial viability of the new Rangers business model depends on the loyalty of its fan base, and I see no signs of this waning”
***************************************************************************************************************
Well said Steerpike, and a 22M share flotation every December for the forseeable future will see The Rangers in clover and the fans loyalty demonstrated to the full.
bighairyandy says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:42 pm
“The current owners are not loyal to anything but themselves.”
————————————————————————————————————
Quote/fact of the day for me
bighairyandy says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:42 pm
If anything, the blind loyalty of the vast majority of Rangers fans has made the situation worse for the club, not better.
============================
What a smokescreen they provide for any spiv or fly-by-night to quietly beaver away knowing no questions will be asked.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:30 pm
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I have to agree with you, I am not sure why so many people believe Rangers were/are close to going bust. As you say, it is dependant on the loyalty of the fans and so far they have stepped upto the plate.
Unfortunately I don’t see those same fans remaining loyal if they are not top of the pile, overspending and lording it over Celtic. If they do that again, they will be bust. Either way, I don’t believe it ends well.
P.S. Those “short term investors” that you have no interest in, they saved your skin. So much for loyalty, for me that one statement in a nutshell tells me why there is a general dislike for Rangers.
@bighairyandy:
Thanks for your reply, unfortunately for your case to make sense, both the business models of the oldco and Hearts would have to be identical to the newco, and they are obviously not, Both these companies had unsustainable debts, this is not the case with the newco, the loyalty of the owners is almost insignificant compared to the loyalty of the fans. It may have missed your notice but commercial football is a shop selling goods to a customer base,ask any shopkeeper how long he could keep the doors open with no customers.
I am not blind and I fail to see how my loyalty to my football club has worsened the situation, perhaps you can enlighten me.
Jack must be paying overtime.
@madhoy,
” P.S. Those “short term investors” that you have no interest in, they saved your skin. So much for loyalty, for me that one statement in a nutshell tells me why there is a general dislike for Rangers.”
Thanks for your comments, before I respond to the above allow me to correct one of your assumptions, you have no evidence of any kind to support the case that Rangers fans are motivated primarily by success, certainly no more than any other football fan, try and not take our superiority wind ups too personally.
Short term investors did not save my club’s skin, nobody forced them to invest and there were other offers on the table from Rangers men, make your mind up, one minute I am blindly loyal to spivs and the next I am not thanking them for being spivs.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:54 pm
0 4 Rate This
. It may have missed your notice but commercial football is a shop selling goods to a customer base,ask any shopkeeper how long he could keep the doors open with no customers.
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Ask any shopkeeper ,or in this case creditor,how long he/she has to wait for the money they never received from RFC due to their financial meltdown? Forever.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:54 pm
@bighairyandy:
Thanks for your reply, unfortunately for your case to make sense, both the business models of the oldco and Hearts would have to be identical to the newco, and they are obviously not, Both these companies had unsustainable debts, this is not the case with the newco, the loyalty of the owners is almost insignificant compared to the loyalty of the fans. It may have missed your notice but commercial football is a shop selling goods to a customer base,ask any shopkeeper how long he could keep the doors open with no customers.
I am not blind and I fail to see how my loyalty to my football club has worsened the situation, perhaps you can enlighten me.
——————————————————————————————————————————
How can a team in the lower leagues justify the spending on the wage bill of a reported £750k for a manager plus a reported £250k for backroom staff and a reported £300k plus bonuses for a CEO and a reported £15k a week for a pair of elbows? Factor in the rest of the staff wages and running costs of the business/stadium
It doesn’t make sense as the income does not justify/sustain this level of spending.
You keep on about the loyalty of the owners, but their loyalty is only to line their own pockets. Check your “history” Even SDM didn’t use his own money to buy RFC(IL), he borrowed it
PS I forgot to add a reported £150k for a communications director
PPS Elbows are weekly costs, all others are annual costs
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:54 pm
“Both these companies had unsustainable debts, this is not the case with the newco…”
The only reason that’s not the case with the new club is the share flotation. That isn’t going to happen every year. The club is still losing money hand over fist, despite the size and loyalty of the fanbase. That is unsustainable lossmaking, and unsustainable lossmaking is exactly what results in unsustainable debt.
“It may have missed your notice but commercial football is a shop selling goods to a customer base,ask any shopkeeper how long he could keep the doors open with no customers.”
Please don’t talk to me like I’m a child. I’m entirely aware that football is an industry, and that football clubs without fans aren’t going to be financially viable. The fans, however, remain completely at the mercy of the owners, as Dunfermline, Gretna, Hearts, and Rangers (amongst others) have all found out painfully in recent years. If the owners are mismanaging the club, all the fan loyalty in the world won’t overcome that.
David Murray mismanaged the club and ultimately bankrupted it, with Craig Whyte thrown in as a patsy to spare Murray’s reputation. Were the Rangers fans then less loyal than they are now, or was it true that loyalty wasn’t enough to overcome reckless ownership?
“I am not blind and I fail to see how my loyalty to my football club has worsened the situation, perhaps you can enlighten me.”
Unquestioning loyalty – which may not be the case for you, but certainly is true for the majority of your club’s support – will always, always be exploited by unscrupulous individuals. That is what happened at Rangers, is still happening at Rangers, and will continue to happen at Rangers so long as loyalty is considered the ultimate virtue of the Rangers fan. Unscrupulous men are exploiting your loyalty and that of your fellow fans, and they are ripping you off right in front of your eyes. Few people are questioning it, making the game easy for them. If your fellow fans don’t act – and it may already be too late – you may not be left with anything when the owners have taken their money and ran. That is how loyalty – perhaps not your loyalty, but certainly that of the majority – is making the situation worse.
” What a smokescreen they provide for any spiv or fly-by-night to quietly beaver away knowing no questions will be asked. ”
Curious paradox at Ibrox, I am supposed to show loyalty to the short term investors( spivs) or Celtic fans will dislike me but you want the opposite or you will dislike me.
” It doesn’t make sense as the income does not justify/sustain this level of spending.”
This comment has been made by more than a few posters on here and I have one question to ask you all, why do you assume the club is not addressing the loss making of the first 6 months ?
Rangers wage bill was annualised in December 2012 at an affordable 5 million, why do you assume they are not keeping to this budget ?
Not everyone who runs Rangers is a nutter like Craig Whyte, although we do attract interesting characters.
@Steerpike
😀
You’re bonkers
I always wondered where the term [fill your boots ]came from,,at Ibrox it is football boots gaun yur self,can we see the FFT accounts to date .
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 11:14 pm
To December last year newco made a loss of £7M.
That is unquestionable and in the unaudited accounts.
The people who loaned that money would have expected a return on that as well as the capital back.
So basically the season ticket money was used by Christmas.
So the share money is down south of £15M now but probably lower. Meanwhile Bocanegra, Gojan, and Sandazza were paid off. We can batter about figures but I reckon the minimum for these three is £1M. Now the good news is that these here wages are off the bill however they have been replaced by EIGHT new players. So it is arguable whether the wage bill has actually fallen over all.
The new Chairman is taken a reported 500K a season. That 150K more than Chas Green!
The management team are taking possibly £1M out of the kitty.
This is all before maintenance, and remedial work of Ibrox and Murray Park (yes it is still called that).
Sure season ticket money has come in and there will be merchandising and sponsorship deals however this will not be as big as previously when RFC were in the SPL.
There is also gas, electricity, and sorry to mention it tax and NI to pay.
The audited accounts seem to be overdue. Now the figures in that would put all the banter to bed one way or another.
There is a question over the ownership of Ibrox and Murray Park. Legal costs will have to be spent defending that action at least.
I think that the share issue money will have gone towards the end of the coming season and with the losses still racking up it has to be asked where the money will come from for the final push to the SPFL.
There are questions that should be directed at the current board but no one in the media seems willing to ask. Considering the media were partially blamed for not asking the hard questions prior to the collapse of RFC it seems strange they are asking none now.
Something doesn’t add up here and unfortunately for newco I think it is the bottom line in the profit and loss ledger.
“David Murray mismanaged the club and ultimately bankrupted it, ”
I do not believe he tried to mismanage the club, a Scottish football club is a very risky business.
Steerpike
I think you might just have lost your audience with that statement.
SDM took the same risks of crashing his club as a bungee jumper leaping without the cord.
StevieBC says:
July 31, 2013 at 11:04 pm
Jack must be paying overtime.
————————————————————————–
Aye, it’ll be 5 star overtime
We’ve had our fun with steerpike, lets stop feeding the troll
@justshaterd
Much obliged for your input, I will be fully transparent in my response, I am both a businessman and a Chartered Accountant, the Rangers accounts are not overdue and not even a book keeper extrapolates interim losses beyond this context, the likely fact is Rangers losses will be more this year than projected.
How much more will be revealed in the accounts, as will a revised projection for the next two years,
The battle between short term vs long term has been won by the latter because the latter has the backing of the fans, if Rangers lose10 million this year, 5 million next year and break even in their third year, then I will be happy. A new lean mean footballing machine just like Celtic, I personally cannot wait.
Goodnight.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:30 pm
10
57
Rate This
_____________________________________
Welcome to the forum Steery.
Its great to see fans of your club engaging here. While the debate will be robust, and fewer fans of your club than we would like participate, I would like to stress that I consider such input is both welcome and helpful to the wider aims of this blog, and I am sure a great many other participants agree with me.
Agreement of all the diverse participants may prove impossible, but constructive engagement and even consensus (which is not the same as agreement) is definitely attainable and well worth striving for.
Steerpike says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:10 am
I am both a businessman and a Chartered Accountant
===========================================
do me a favour and tell me which business you own/run or which accountants you work for or own?
So i can stay the hell away from them
if you honestly think The Rangers even have a so called business plan could you please out line it for the rest of us and maybe even forward it to TRFC Board 😆
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 11:25 pm
1 9 Rate This
Rangers wage bill was annualised in December 2012 at an affordable 5 million, why do you assume they are not keeping to this budget ?
*****************************
I would contend that the wage bill is NOT affordable, and also that it is even higher. CEO, manager and other highly paid staff take a chunk of that and a look at the player roster and ‘SPFL level’ deals that have been given out recently, I would say that £5m is a conservative estimate.
Taking into account stated losses (£7m in 6 months), player contract buyouts, assorted legal costs, investor returns and executive payoffs, we can assume that the IPO dough headed south faster than Sherman.
Sustainability means that income exceeds expenditure. Sure, any residual IPO cash will be in the kitty but that ain’t no way to run a railroad. There will be no repeat of that windfall.
A quick ‘back of a fag packet’ reckoning shows :
32k Season Tickets @ £275 (I know they are cheaper) = £8.8m less VAT
Main Sponsor (Blackthorn) £500k
Corporate Matchday sales c£350k
Merchandising c£350k (best case)
Additional cup ties at Ibrox £1.5m (absolute best case)
Sundry revenues c£500k
TRFC running costs, such as keeping the lights on, matchday expenses (police, stewarding), travel & accommodation, pre season trips, PR (Ha!), stadium maintenance, training facilities and day to day expenses will be around the highest in the country, if not the highest.
Any losses cannot now be ‘absorbed’ by another corporate entity. Property values cannot be manipulated to reflect a healthy balance sheet. TRFC & RIFC will have to stand or fall by their business model.
I, for one, do not see the current model as being sustainable. How long it will take for the wheels to fa’ aff the bogey, who can say, but fa’ aff they will.
I will say again, as I have several times on TSFM, I do not have an anti TRFC agenda and genuinely have sympathy for supporters who have been sold a myth.
bighairyandy says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:42 pm
‘…The current owners are not loyal to anything but themselves.
If anything, the blind loyalty of the vast majority of Rangers fans has made the situation worse for the club, not better…—
—
A stoater of a post, if I may say so.
Various posts following your post, bighairyandy, are clearly the work of Jack’s little demonic helpers, if not of Jack Beelzebub himself.
As I’ve said before, my primary interest is in the ‘alleged’ corruption of our footballing authorities and the deficiencies of the SMSM, rather than the ruinous internal, self-destructive actions of a gang of, frankly, rotten- to- the- core con artistes and their media mouthpieces.
But I have to say that I agree with you that they only got, and get, away with their depredations and deceit because of the blind stupidity of their ‘loyal’ fans.
Lemmings spring as quickly to mind as they leap over the cliff.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:30 pm
I am an engaging Rangers fan….
__________________________________________________________
🙂
Welcome Steerpike. Not very often we get a Tory Gossip Columnist on here – especially engaging ones 🙂
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/author/steerpike/
beatipacificiscotia on July 31, 2013 at 8:07 pm
16 1 Rate This
StevieBC says:
July 31, 2013 at 8:02 pm
0 0 Rate This
beatipacificiscotia says:
July 31, 2013 at 7:41 pm
Rumour on Twitter that Bert Kassies, the man responsible for the UEFA coefficient, has confirmed by email that the New Rangers will be treated as a New Club in the same way as Derry. Interesting ……
=================
Anybody want to have a wild guess at how the Sevco supporters will respond to this news…?
//////////////////////////////////////////////////…
By a pitchfork march to Berts doorstep demanding to know his name?
rantinrobin says:
July 31, 2013 at 11:11 pm
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:54 pm
0 4 Rate This
. It may have missed your notice but commercial football is a shop selling goods to a customer base,ask any shopkeeper how long he could keep the doors open with no customers.
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Ask any shopkeeper ,or in this case creditor,how long he/she has to wait for the money they never received from RFC due to their financial meltdown? Forever.
***************
If the shopkeeper has 30 people behind the counter (20 more than the shop next door) paying them 30 pounds an hour (3 x the amount the shopkeeper next door pays them), how long can he survive making a profit of 10p a carton of milk, no matter how many folks come in? My money is on the shop next door still being there………amount of customers is not the driving force, its all to do with business model.
Caveat Emptor says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:45 am
‘Any losses cannot now be ‘absorbed’ by another corporate entity. Property values cannot be manipulated to reflect a healthy balance sheet. TRFC & RIFC will have to stand or fall by their business model.
I, for one, do not see the current model as being sustainable. How long it will take for the wheels to fa’ aff the bogey, who can say, but fa’ aff they will.’
When was the last time a club from Ibrox was actually managed in a sustainable manner? I guess it would be pre-Souness days.
——————————————————————————————
‘I will say again, as I have several times on TSFM, I do not have an anti TRFC agenda and genuinely have sympathy for supporters who have been sold a myth.’
If it was only the case they (the fans) had been sold a myth that would be relatively harmless, except to them. However the blaming of everyone else for their predicament makes it difficult to have any sympathy for them. Incredibly the biggest blame is laid at the door of the football authorities who tripped over themselves to help them.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:30 pm
…………………I am an engaging Rangers fan who does not share your apocalyptic vision, the financial viability of the new Rangers business model depends on the loyalty of its fan base, and I see no signs of this waning.
…………………………………………….
I think you may have mixed up ‘loyalty’ and ‘gullability’ This is why their club/team/holding company is so tempting to the vultures of the financial world,
Question. Who was the last owner to use his own money to buy the club/team/holding company?
Reflecting on the media rumour of Mike Ashley’s possible takeover of TRFC. Could it be just the bit of ‘news’ (or spin) needed to stabilse the share price? And possibly drive it up before December?
He’s tried to offload the Magpies for quite some time, so unless Ashley has suddenly found a buyer for Newcastle it would seem unlikely that he’d want to burn more money on yet another football club.
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:30 pm
Hello Steerpike, welcome to TSFM.
I am happy to read your thoughts on your own team and it is refreshing to have some counter-argument. However, I take great exception to one comment you made:
“I am not interested in the fortunes of short term investors, they knew the risks involved.”
Unfortunately, they did not know the risks. The IPO documentation could at best be described as a hopeful PR piece, maybe a work of fantasy. It was not factual and did not give the full picture on costs and liabilities. There was a list of investments to be made in the club with money allocated for each of these. Where are the stadium improvements? How much has been spent of operating costs as compared to what was listed in the IPO? Where is the mention of the potential £10M liability for asbestos removal?
The investors have been duped. The money will disappear feeding over-inflated salaries and bonuses. The investors will be left with a financially crippled club that has likely lost ownership of their current major assets.
If you think there will be a different result from what I have suggested, I’d love to see the numbers that back this up.
2 Derry City’s
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2014.html
the man who makes up the UEFA co-efficient site
Morning folks (a very occasional contributor who has only just got round to registering).
Don’t know if anybody noticed this slipped into the BBC report on Hearts debts:
Money owed in wage arrears combined with cash for players made redundant and fees outstanding to Liverpool, Rangers, Ayr United, Kaunas, Musselburgh Athletic, Livingston, Stenhousemuir and Musselburgh Athletic totals £535,000.
Which version of Rangers do they owe this to, and what for?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23521149
Danish Pastry says:
August 1, 2013 at 7:52 am
12 0 Rate This
Reflecting on the media rumour of Mike Ashley’s possible takeover of TRFC. Could it be just the bit of ‘news’ (or spin) needed to stabilse the share price? And possibly drive it up before December?
He’s tried to offload the Magpies for quite some time, so unless Ashley has suddenly found a buyer for Newcastle it would seem unlikely that he’d want to burn more money on yet another football club.
&&&&&&&&&
Given that Ashley has close to £300m tied up in NUFC, even a billionaire would think twice about flogging his club at a loss only to sink a minimum of £70m into TRFC before he can start to think about the price of a night out.
I think it’s either
A clumsy attempt to pump the share price
Or
A ‘come and get it’ to prospective NU buyers
Steerpike says:
July 31, 2013 at 10:54 pm
@bighairyandy:
Thanks for your reply, unfortunately for your case to make sense, both the business models of the oldco and Hearts would have to be identical to the newco, and they are obviously not, Both these companies had unsustainable debts, this is not the case with the newco,
——————————
Welcome Steerpike, could you please share your thoughts re. the oldco v newco debate regarding whether the current team playing at Ibrox have in fact just the 1 trophy on their honours roll or do they have 1 CWC and 54 titles amongst others?
As always it is nice to get a contribution from someone like Steerpike.
I have long said T’Rangers were walking a tightrope in terms of their finances.
The basic plan as I see it is to use the IPO money to prop up the club long enough to get back to the top flight.
Therefore Steerpikes view on making losses of £7m (Div 3) then £10 (Div2) then £5m (Div 1) and breaking even (Prem) means the £22m IPO will be spent. The revenue from ticket sales merchanidsing etc then covers the other costs over that period and the ticket prices will probably take a hike if they get to Div 1 with the ‘sell’ to fans being this is needed to increase revenue for the final push for the Premiership.
The question then is can the club compete with Celtic and in Europe on ticket and merchandise revenue alone being that I still think it unlikely (despite the Ashley story) that sugar daddy money will come their way.
(If they pack Ibrox then you have to acknowledge that they will have far greater income than all the other SPFL clubs and with a half decent manager and squad should be competitive)
However as other have pointed out you can cram the stadium full of punters and sell lots of strips but it is your expenditure you need to control.
Until we see audtied accounts there is no evidence that the management at T’Rangers has got expenditure under control.
Yes money has possibly been saved (but at a cost as well) by moving some folk on, but they have been replaced by more players in a larger squad. Therefore in all probability the wage bill is the same and possibly slightly higher than last year. We know Mather is taking a fair chunk out of the club along with others in senior positions. Geting rid of a few lassies at the ticket office and the like isn’t going to make major savings.
And behind all that there is apparently no allowance being made for maintenance and upkeep, rainy day money etc.
Then of course there is talk of a possible spending spree in January.
Oh and lets not forget that those who put money in may want a return at some point.
How patient will they be or have they just been stiffed like everyone who gave money to the oldco?
As I said, it is a tightrope and they could go eitherway.
From looking at the share forums it looks like they need to produce some figures for the AIM every six months with a three month period of grace. Therefore if the launch was 18/19 Dec 2012 then those figures were due June 2013. They could then hold off until September 2013.
If they argue that they have six months from the interim results published in March 2013 then they would have to provide updated figures by September 2013 or December 2013 at the latest.
Only when those figures are produced will we all get a full picture of what is going on.
Until then we keep looking skywards to watch the circus act. Some willing the tightrope walker to get to the other side while others are hoping for a fall and would love the ropes of the safety net to be cut for good measure.
Good to see some debate generated by Steerpike. Personally I’m not too interested in the finances at The Rangers – this is really for the Rangers fans to worry about just as it should have been with the old club.
My concern is more the twisted actions of both the old and new clubs in their pursuit of attaining superiority over everyone else. If they played by a level playing field with no underhand, dirty tricks, I’d be quite happy for them to compete properly and actually earn their rewards fairly.
Unfortunately over the last few years we’ve seen the evidence laid out before us for the behaviour of the old club and now it very much appears the same attitudes and activities are underway in the name of the new club.
Its a crying shame really that the opportunity to create a club their fans can rightly be proud of has been missed so far. But it has been missed spectacularly.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 1, 2013 at 9:30 am
6 0 Rate This
2 Derry City’s
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2014.html
the man who makes up the UEFA co-efficient site
=====================================================================
Only time will tell if that approach by Uefa remains consistent in the face of the mock outrage, threats and barrage of complaints and abuse they will likely receive if The Rangers reach Europe one day.
Something tells me that like many organisations before them, they will crumple in the face of the threats and just find a means to fudge the while thing.
We’ve seen it happen often enough now to understand the pattern.
Apparently major eh, issues, with the safety cert for the new season. Has anyone any further info on this?
Sir Barold Hatchback @BartinMain 4m
My information is that a safety certificate in time for start of season optimistic at best.
Sir Barold Hatchback @BartinMain 10m
The bill is said to be absolutely massive for the repairs. No one knows how the companies will be able to pay it.
Sir Barold Hatchback @BartinMain 5m
May have to play in stadium at least one third under capacity until work completed- or somewhere else entirely. Hampden?
peteedin says:
August 1, 2013 at 9:34 am
‘.Which version of Rangers do they owe this to, and what for?..’
——-
The complete list of creditors in the Scotsman shows “The Rangers Football Club” …£1,410″, but does not say the reason ( in respect of any of the creditors.
Bangordub says,
All interesting rumours!, but Hampden is definitely out of the question due to its use for the Commonwealth Games.
We have seen previous rumours of the asbestos repair scenarios, & the rusty steelwork, then there were the cuts / loss of the maintenance staff. Was the facilities manager ever replaced? and what about the club doctor?
Strange cuts to have made when these should all be classed as essential staff posts.
TSFM says:
August 1, 2013 at 1:33 am
‘.. Not very often we get a Tory Gossip Columnist on here .’
—–
I’ve tweeted the real Steerpike to let him know his name is being used by a RIFC supporter and business-man/CA.
‘Our’ Steerpike clearly has a belief, or principle, or at least a concept of such. ( Might not be much of an accountant, though)
By definition, no gossip-columnist has a shred of integrity.
😀
So our man cannot be the ‘Spectator’s” man.