Their Master’s Voice

Bybroganrogantrevinoandhogan

Their Master’s Voice

Good Afternoon.

As virtually anyone on the internet who follows Scottish Football has come to realise, there is a reasoned and determined attempt at ignoring the content of the Charlotte Fakeovers files on the part of the mainstream print media— and indeed by the broadcast journo’s to an extent.

There is widespread speculation that the accessing of the information provided by Charlotte the Harlot was not all above board and the reluctance of the journalists to mention or comment on the documents, so far published on the internet, is often explained away by the lawyers allegedly advising that the content is tainted and so on.

That indeed might or might not be the case, and only the editors, lawyers, journalists and so on will truly know what their stance is on the revelations. Some will want the whole thing suppressed and others will be desperate to get into print, but thus far are frustrated in any attempt to do so.

However, as the documents do appear on the net only to be quickly followed by file disappearances and so on, there is an ever burning question which must be asked and thrown open to debate and argument.

The issue is not just how independent are the Sports Press in Scotland, but whether or not the relationship between certain sections of the press and Rangers or The Rangers is in fact lawful and deserving of football sanctions.

There is no doubt that many big businesses, local authorities and Governments use the services of PR firms and the likes to get information out to the public and to put their slant on any given situation. That is fair enough.

However, in recent days we have seen the release of documentation which, if accurate and true, shows that a leading Scottish PR company were specifically employed to place stories with the press which were designed to damage the reputation of, to embarrass or cause problems for certain other teams and personnel involved in Scottish Football.

Again I stress that all of this is subject to the caveat that what Charlotte is publishing may or may not be real and accurate. However, if what has been produced is in fact the genuine correspondence between the club and its professional advisers then that correspondence needs to be looked at.

The SFA and indeed the SPFL are the bodies that lay down rules which govern the conduct of clubs and their officers and employees.

So looking at these regulations let me just repeat some of them here:

Fisrt the rules of what was the SPL and which I presume are the rules of the SPFL:

A3.1 In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.

A3.2 No Club, either by itself or its Club Officials, shall by any means whatsoever unfairly criticise, disparage, belittle or discredit any other Club, the Company or the League or in either case any such other Cub or the Company’s directors, officers, employees or agents (which shall, for the avoidance of doubt, exclude supporters).

The SFA handbook at article 5 places obligations on members to observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play, and to refrain from engaging in any activity which would constitute a breach of sections 1, 2 and 6 the Bribery Act 2010.

The details of the Bribery act can be found here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/23/section/2

Basically, I think these rules mean that you cannot criticise belittle or try to damage the reputation of a club outwith the rules of the games and must at all times behave with integrity, in a sporting manner and with THE UTMOST GOOD FAITH!

The details,as released by Charlotte, show that there is at best a conflict of interests at times with various parties being both employed by the club and paid by radio stations or newspapers to comment on matters relating to all aspects of Scottish Football. As a member of the PR staff at Ibrox presumably such employees are paid to tow a certain party line when commenting in the media and so throw a spin on any given set of facts and circumstances that suits whoever is in control of Ibrox.

Further, it has been suggested that certain individuals acting in this way can also represent the views of for example Walter Smith — and so act as their mouthpiece if necessary.

Such practices may be unpleasant and undesirable but not necessarily against the laws of the game. It would just mean that the newspapers and broadcasters concerned cannot be regarded as independent or objective in their comments or views — they are merely towing an employers line. In short they are HMV— His Masters Voice!

Equally, we have seen supposedly independent journalists and editors referred to in such a way that it is clear they are being asked to spin news a certain way for whatever reason — including the suggestion that if they do not comply then some kind of action will be taken which the parties concerned would rather avoid — such as private matters becoming public.

However, of far greater interest is the suggestion that where necessary the newspapers or whoever will be used to spread negative stories about another club, its employees, directors or whoever.

Such a position may well amount to a breach of articles 3.1 and 3,2 of the SPL ( now SPFL rules) and against the principals set out in the SFA handbook.

Both the SFA and the SPL ( SPFL) has a press office and legal officers.

Both grant rights to broadcasters and journalists, and allow members of the press access to their officers and officials.

Both bodies are free to set out what is acceptable conduct on the part of clubs in this area…… and what is not!

Without even alluding to the detail of the Charlotte revelations, or needing to enquire into the details of the Charlotte documents, I would have thought that the governing bodies would be capable of issuing a formal reminder, to all clubs currently playing at any level in Scottish football, of the content of these rules and that any breach of the rules will not be tolerated.

Of course the matter becomes more convoluted if any officers of the SFA or SPL were involved in the employment of any PR companies or agencies on behalf of a member club and engaged in briefing any such agency about what to say when it comes to the affairs of other clubs. Surely you cannot have an executive officer of a governing body who is in any way linked to the employment of an agency which breaks rules on behalf of a member club?

However, few of these people ever appear on the airwaves to answer questions on a personal basis, and very few expose themselves to questions from the public.

However, many of the commentators and journalists named in the Charlotte documents are regulars on the airwaves and could, in theory, be asked whether or not they are no more than “Their master’s voice” as would appear to be the case if the Charlotte documents are in fact genuine.

If the Scottish Footballing Public are to be entrusted with the truth — and why shouldn’t they in this era of open and transparent football governance– then I think they are entitled to enquire direct whether or not the journalists, players, ex players,managers directors, broadcasters and governing body officials believe in articles 3.1 and 3.2 of the SPFL rules and article 5 of the SFA handbook?

Oh– and maybe the same people could provide some practical examples of what they would consider to be breaches of these rules and what the appropriate sanctions might be?

Specifically– do the actions mentioned in the Charlotte documents ( if true ) fall within the football rules or not?

Or do the SFA and SPFL just ignore placed press releases and comments?

It would be interesting to know.

 

About the author

broganrogantrevinoandhogan author

Boot wearing football, sport & total nonsense fan-- Gourmet, Bon Viveur and eedgit! - Oh and I write a bit occasionally!

1,328 Comments so far

Lord WobblyPosted on9:54 pm - Aug 2, 2013


TSFM says:
August 2, 2013 at 8:16 pm
14 1 Rate This
Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 7:33 pmp.s. I knew Frank Blin some 25 years
ago, guess what his speciality used to be……insolvency,
Rangers are bringing in the big guns to thrash all the
carpetbaggers.
_______________________________________________________________________
Steerpike, I apologise for some of the abuse and ill-mannered
taunts you have been subjected to. The mods have taken steps
to weed them out.
Despite your off-message remarks and the occasional bit of
sarcasm (and your worryingly sympathetic position on DM), I
think you have forced many on here to have re-examine their
own viewpoints. Even although most will not have altered
theirs significantly, it is always good to be forced to defend
your views through a dialectic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Absolutely. One of the reasons that RTC was so successful (even over and above the 99%!) was that the majority had to hone their arguments and use of facts to counter the likes of Adam.

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on9:56 pm - Aug 2, 2013


@Danish pastry

” Why did he orchestrate the insolvency? ”

Because that is all he knows, running a going concern requires a brain, he thought he could have a no risk go at running Rangers, as it turns out he ran Rangers into the ground with him still inside.

View Comment

iamacantPosted on9:59 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 34m
Re last tweet. Louise Barrie was the PA to Martin Edward (An alias used by Martin Bain).
——————————————————————————
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 39m
SDM insisted the sale went ahead despite concerns. Favours elsewhere? #SOCA #Screwed

1. http://i.imgur.com/8Vicjo0.jpg
2. http://www.scribd.com/doc/157723001/Serious-Organised-Crime-Agency-Whyte
———————————————————————————-
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1h
@TheLoudenTavern Hopefully
Gordon didn’t have a go at Craig Whyte. He was returning as new CEO.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/157717051/Gordon-Smith-CEO-Rangers

#Charades #Busted

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on10:08 pm - Aug 2, 2013


iamacant says:
August 2, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 34m

2. http://www.scribd.com/doc/157723001/Serious-Organised-Crime-Agency-Whyte
=====================================
3.
the ISC understands that Mr. Whyte’s business interests in the past haveincluded businesses involved with the provision of security services and buscompanies. The ISC is aware that businesses of these natures are significantlycash dependant, making them susceptible for use in connection with moneylaundering activities…
=====================================
Craig Whyte and the Easdales?

View Comment

iamacantPosted on10:12 pm - Aug 2, 2013


StevieBC says:
August 2, 2013 at 10:08 pm

3.
the ISC understands that Mr. Whyte’s business interests in the past haveincluded businesses involved with the provision of security services and buscompanies. The ISC is aware that businesses of these natures are significantlycash dependant, making them susceptible for use in connection with moneylaundering activities…
=====================================
Craig Whyte and the Easdales?
—————————————————————————–

Dunno why but STAGECOACH came into my head when I read it 😀

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on10:16 pm - Aug 2, 2013


iamacant says:
August 2, 2013 at 9:59 pm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/157717051/Gordon-Smith-CEO-Rangers
=====================
“…
7. CVA Exit – Rangers entered administration on Feb 14th 2012. This gives the Company theopportunity to exit the process without the legacy liabilities such as the EBT tax case. According to theadministrators Duff & Phelps a payment of £10-15m to legacy creditors will ensure a successful exitfrom the administration process. The shareholder and current floating charge holder is the RangersFC Group who own 85.1% of the issued shares and have a floating charge over the assets of Rangers Football Club Plc.An exit by CVA is required to preserve the Company’s membership of theSPL and SFA and to be able to participate in European football in the short term…”
========================
Why was Craigie still bullish about achieving a CVA, even as late as 15 March 2012 ?

Was this just bluster, or was he badly advised ? :confused: ❓

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phill450Posted on10:18 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Has anyone else thought we haven’t heard much about Ticketus recently?

No? … me neither, probably a coincidence

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pau1mart1nPosted on10:27 pm - Aug 2, 2013


aha, TicketBUS !!!!
DJ was trying to send a message !!!

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bluPosted on10:30 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Carntyne Riddrie says:

August 2, 2013 at 6:35 pm
The following will clear up any ‘misunderstanding’ of the “apparent contradictions between the treatment of Hearts and RFC”:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/craig-mather-shows-he-can-talk-as-much-rubbish-for-rangers-as-messrs-green-and-whyte/
========================================
You, me, and every reader of Rangers Media and Follow Follow know that Alastair doesn’t need to be spoon-fed this by Paul McConville.

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Drew PeacockPosted on10:31 pm - Aug 2, 2013


More than one bus company involved?

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newtzPosted on10:31 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Funds for the Transaction

Under the terms of the Transaction it is proposed that Wavetower purchases MHL’sentire shareholding in the Club for consideration of £1. In addition: (i) theoutstanding debt currently owed by the Club to Bank of Scotland plc (“BoS”) is to be assigned to Wavetower in consideration for approximately £18 million;
……
The ISC understands that the funds for the Transaction have been provided to Wavetower by Liberty and such funds are currently held in the client account of Collyer Bristow LLP of 4 Bedford Row, London WC1R 4TF, the legal advisors to Mr.Whyte for the purposes of the Transaction.
———————————————
AJ got close ….. but not close enough …. he never actually got sight of the Confort Letter …. pity … (it was not his fault)

Lloyds have serious questions to answer ……. #Soca

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SteerpikePosted on10:33 pm - Aug 2, 2013


@Stevie

” Why was Craigie still bullish about achieving a CVA, even as late as 15 March 2012 ? ”

Maybe he had not been informed he had lost his status as a secured creditor and still believed he had a major say in the matter, he seemed to be under the impression the CVA would only take a month or 6 weeks, personally I think he is crazy as a bag of snakes.
There is an alternative, everyone involved seems to have interpreted HMRC’s statement to consider a CVA as some kind of green light, it certainly fooled D&P, CG and TBK.
HMRC ” consider ” all applications for a CVA, heaven knows why they viewed this with any optimism, there are degrees of non-compliance that are acceptable to HMRC, but I don’t think we can honestly include the maniacal actions of CW to be an unavoidable non-compliance.

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gsrx1Posted on10:38 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:

Ok Steerpike, no one has got round to this yet (apart from a subtle dig from TSFM earlier) – but I am intrigued.. Please tell me what part you think(Sir – lol) David Murray played in the downfall and ultimate extinction (liquidation if you prefer) of Rangers Football Club?

View Comment

Drew PeacockPosted on10:44 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 10:33 pm
@Stevie

” Why was Craigie still bullish about achieving a CVA, even as late as 15 March 2012 ? ”

Maybe he had not been informed he had lost his status as a secured creditor and still believed he had a major say in the matter, he seemed to be under the impression the CVA would only take a month or 6 weeks, personally I think he is crazy as a bag of snakes.
There is an alternative, everyone involved seems to have interpreted HMRC’s statement to consider a CVA as some kind of green light, it certainly fooled D&P, CG and TBK.
HMRC ” consider ” all applications for a CVA, heaven knows why they viewed this with any optimism, there are degrees of non-compliance that are acceptable to HMRC, but I don’t think we can honestly include the maniacal actions of CW to be an unavoidable non-compliance.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

With this nonesense the game is surely up. I hope you earned your pay today. It wasn’t fun.

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StevieBCPosted on11:00 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Some of the bears believe that Jim McColl is behind today’s activity.

Don’t believe it for one minute, but has anyone heard anything to suggest otherwise ?

View Comment

TSFMPosted on11:05 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:

August 2, 2013 at 9:18 pm @TSFM

” So who exactly is it who are bringing in the big guns? Should we infer (and this is not sarcasm) that you regard another group, not currently working out of Ibrox as the “Real Rangers”? ”
____________________________________________________________________________

Still haven’t answered the question SP. Three people have asked you now. I think we have tried to allow you some latitude here, but my take on it is that you mis-spoke, and that you think there is some entity (Rangers) which is gunning for RIFC (which you appear to be implying is not Rangers).

If the spivs are not Rangers, then who on earth is?

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pau1mart1nPosted on11:09 pm - Aug 2, 2013


If the spivs are not Rangers, then who on earth is?

Don’t tell him (Steer) Pike !!

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newtzPosted on11:10 pm - Aug 2, 2013


@Steerpike

The D&P admin showing … possible protection of the floating charge

May 29, Duff & Phelps stated they “understand” that The Rangers FC Group Ltd, formally Wavetower, had confirmed it was not owed any money under the floating charge …

Duff & Phelps also stated in that report a figure for Whyte’s floating charge was “tbc” (to be confirmed).

August 24 Duff & Phelps stated the joint administrators had “sought to clarify the level of indebtedness, if any, due to RFC Group and upon investigation it is believed that there is no indebtedness to RFC Group”.

That statement is in fact correct, because the Rangers floating charge was transferred from RFC Group to Liberty Corporate on March 21.

The debt also transferred and is considered as an asset

Assets pushed out of the reach of creditors who are ultimately screwed.

Under the Enterprise Act 2002 meant HMRC were no longer afforded preferential creditor status: ….. spivs rejoiced and crime soon followed

This bit was for a bigger post in the future …. credit belongs elsewhere …

See HMRC V the Football League and Premier League. HMRC lost a case in which it argued the football creditors rule had been made up by the football governing bodies …. and not enacted by Parliament.

The leagues argued, sucessfully, if the rule was removed it could jeopardise the teansfer system and wipe out huge player related debt.

The Football League said: “A club in administration could simply write off the consequences of bad decisions made in the past. Clearly this would be unacceptable to other clubs in the division.” FL spokesman John Nagel, 2004).

Had HMRC won it would shut down the laundry ….. HMRC lost against a rule not enacted by Parliament

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on11:11 pm - Aug 2, 2013


” Ok Steerpike, no one has got round to this yet (apart from a subtle dig from TSFM earlier) – but I am intrigued.. Please tell me what part you think(Sir – lol) David Murray played in the downfall and ultimate extinction (liquidation if you prefer) of Rangers Football Club? ”

@gsrx,

Do I blame SDM for the current state of affairs ? No.

Was he complicit ? Yes.

He was a wealthy businessman who secured Rangers debts to achieve international recognition, and both achieved some success, unfortunately he decided to embark on a risky tax avoidance scheme and then his wealth and security shrank. The problem with downsizing Rangers is self evident , SDM faced the same problem, he had created a rod for his own back, he could not afford the wrath of the fans because his debt was too large and without CL money Rangers debt remained the same or increased.
He was now between a rock and a hard place, it happens. He then sells as a last resort to an expert insolvency businessman knowing a CVA was the only way out, the rest is comedy farce.

I cannot say given his identical position I would have done any different, business is a gamble with fine margins of risk attached, and we all want to be a hero. So he was partially to blame but I don’t blame him, he is a flawed human being just like you and me.

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RiddriePosted on11:14 pm - Aug 2, 2013


blu says:
August 2, 2013 at 10:30 pm

5

1

Rate This

Carntyne Riddrie says:

August 2, 2013 at 6:35 pm
The following will clear up any ‘misunderstanding’ of the “apparent contradictions between the treatment of Hearts and RFC”:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/craig-mather-shows-he-can-talk-as-much-rubbish-for-rangers-as-messrs-green-and-whyte/
========================================
You, me, and every reader of Rangers Media and Follow Follow know that Alastair doesn’t need to be spoon-fed this by Paul McConville.
————————————————–

Either McCoist is even dimmer than first thought or he’s up to his knees in Sevco propaganda.

On STV’s six o’clock news this evening Ally was given ample time to make his complaint about Rangers ‘unfair treatment’, and yet again ask for ‘clarity’ on yet another matter.

Has no one the backbone to give the brutal facts as to why Rangers were treated as they were?

Apparently not.

View Comment

Reilly1926Posted on11:16 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Mr Charles’ re-introduction and the timing of it are interesting. With a month to go in the transfer window look out for any player who is worth a bob or two (Wallace) to be sold. Chuckles is back to do the work that their man Mather cannot be trusted to do and that is to wield the axe and make the necessary cuts that will make Sevco shares worth buying in December.

Chuckles (and friends) realize that without his intervention that there is a real chance that his 7m shares (and theirs) are likely to become worth the same amount as they paid for them.

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on11:19 pm - Aug 2, 2013


@TFSM,

” but my take on it is that you mis-spoke, and that you think there is some entity (Rangers) which is gunning for RIFC (who you appear to be implying is not Rangers. ”

No, I think there are investors with long term interest trying to persuade the short term spivs( the owners) to cut and run, I just keep praying the share price keeps falling, they will sell the lot at Christmas.

View Comment

ptd1978Posted on11:23 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Now he’s back will the SFA reconsider their decision paint Whytewash over Green’s links to Craigie??

Thought not.

On the subject of funny Vince Lunny… Is a “consultant” who makes disreputable comments able to be hit with a disrepute charge?

View Comment

Dave BPosted on11:25 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Don’t feed ’em

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wottpiPosted on11:26 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Reilly1926 says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:16 pm

A fair shout. Mather was hinting that some may go to make room for potential new signings being Ally stillwanted another three added to the squad.

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on11:28 pm - Aug 2, 2013


@newtz

” The debt also transferred and is considered as an asset ”

The debt may be listed as an asset on Liberty Corporate’s books but that is meaningless, what is relevant is if the debt to Liberty Corporate is listed in the D&P accounts as a liability, and I don’t believe it is, I think some one may have noticed.
The bottom line is D&P do not accept the claim made by Liberty Corporate, possession is 9 tenths of the law, if CW has a case then why the stage fright ?

View Comment

Lord WobblyPosted on11:29 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:11 pm
2 6 Rate This
” Ok Steerpike, no one has got round to this yet (apart from a
subtle dig from TSFM earlier) – but I am intrigued.. Please tell
me what part you think(Sir – lol) David Murray played in the
downfall and ultimate extinction (liquidation if you prefer) of
Rangers Football Club? ”
@gsrx,
Do I blame SDM for the current state of affairs ? No.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The current state of affairs wasn’t the question though. The question was about Rangers. And SDM’s was 99% responsible for bringing about the death of Rangers. Of that there is no question.

View Comment

Exiled CeltPosted on11:30 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 11m
Frank Blin – A heart of gold, but not so hot on his football grounds.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/157744994/Frank-Blin-Heart-of-Gold

View Comment

Lord WobblyPosted on11:33 pm - Aug 2, 2013


StevieBC says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:00 pm
1 0 Rate This
Some of the bears believe that Jim McColl is behind today’s
activity.
Don’t believe it for one minute, but has anyone heard
anything to suggest otherwise ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2383849/Rangers-war-battle-control.html

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on11:33 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:11 pm
2 4 Rate This

” Ok Steerpike, no one has got round to this yet (apart from a subtle dig from TSFM earlier) – but I am intrigued.. Please tell me what part you think(Sir – lol) David Murray played in the downfall and ultimate extinction (liquidation if you prefer) of Rangers Football Club? ”

@gsrx,

Do I blame SDM for the current state of affairs ? No.

Was he complicit ? Yes.

He was a wealthy businessman who secured Rangers debts to achieve international recognition, and both achieved some success, unfortunately he decided to embark on a risky tax avoidance scheme and then his wealth and security shrank. The problem with downsizing Rangers is self evident , SDM faced the same problem, he had created a rod for his own back, he could not afford the wrath of the fans because his debt was too large and without CL money Rangers debt remained the same or increased.
He was now between a rock and a hard place, it happens. He then sells as a last resort to an expert insolvency businessman knowing a CVA was the only way out, the rest is comedy farce.

I cannot say given his identical position I would have done any different, business is a gamble with fine margins of risk attached, and we all want to be a hero. So he was partially to blame but I don’t blame him, he is a flawed human being just like you and me.
————

I’m not sure if this is a statement about bankruptcy or moral bankruptcy. Perhaps both.

View Comment

Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on11:36 pm - Aug 2, 2013


I wonder if might suggest cost cutting measures

what might be the easiest way to cut costs?

How about reneging on the 8 pre contract deals with players currently known as trialists

if they are on 5k a week then that is £2M annual saving without so much as a boca/Goian/Sandaza/Kyle style pay off.

would be harsh on the players and could just be enough to force Ally to walk (another £1M saved when he and his backroom go)

And all the season ticket money would be in then as well.

Would be a genius stroke if he could pull it off. (not to mention comedy gold)

View Comment

TSFMPosted on11:38 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike is an interesting new phenomenon on TSFM. Not unique of course, but interesting.
Forty-eight posts in forty-eight hours is usually the work of an insomniac or an obsessive, and the “it’s all CW’s fault” stuff is all very MSM.

However, it is grotesquely ironic that posters who themselves post under aliases have chosen to attack Steerpike for his anonymity or past identities in other blogs/forums.

This blog is undoubtedly critical of RFC and RIFC, and the consensus is not sympathetic to either of those clubs. However there MUST be room for an alternative view, and we will ensure that it is heard from those who wish to air it. People who disagree with that policy are in our view guilty of the same sense of self-entitlement that Rangers have been accused of – and there is absolutely no place for them here.

This is not a playground. If you can’t answer someone who holds opposing views with counter arguments and facts, please do not attack the individual.

We don’t care what or where anyone has posted previously, or under which identity or alias. It is how they conduct themselves here that matters.

In my view, Steerpike has said the sum total of one minus one these past forty-eight hours, and only offered some bluster and anti-CW spin. He has refused to answer a direct question from three different posters on something he said (mistakenly I believe, and maybe when he had posting fatigue 🙂 ).

But he has not been deliberately abusive to anyone (except in retaliation). It is not acceptable to merely hurl abuse. That shows only an absence of irony and argument. Posters who have nothing but spin to offer will be found out here, but we won’t be abusive.

If trolling on TSFM is that easy, we will look like a complete bunch of idiots. Keep your eye on the ball folks.

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on11:40 pm - Aug 2, 2013


@newtz

I am trying to imagine CW suing Sevco for preventing him buying the assets and going to court to prove he owned the assets( through a floating charge) he was prevented from buying ????

If he wins the former it proves he did not own the assets and if he wins the latter then it destroys his GA case.

Lawyers must love this yo yo.

View Comment

Drew PeacockPosted on11:45 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:28 pm

The bottom line is D&P do not accept the claim made by Liberty Corporate, possession is 9 tenths of the law, if CW has a case then why the stage fright ?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Because he is just a cog in the wheel. A stooge if you like.

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davythelotionPosted on11:49 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 10:33 pm
######
CW’s plan was always to run the oldco aground. Then claim the insurance and sell the scrap. It nearly worked, problem was:
The scrap (players) pissed off before they could be sold
The sale of assets to CG turned into a ‘bump’ operation on the part of CG
The insurance of SPL football was nulled by the fans of every other club in the country.
The assurances CW was given by both SDM and JI turned out to be worthless
The supporters turned out to be tighter than a dolphin’s chuff
Ally left more cups than PG Tips
Internet bampots didn’t settle for the MSM line
Internet bampots showed they were capable of going online and doing research
Everybody (except oldco fans) knew that liquidation means the end.

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on11:50 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Forget Steerpike (no offence intended mate) for a moment and check a caller on tonight’s SSB podcast. Brian comes in at 43.47 in. Very interesting call from a TRFC fan regarding Mather, Green, Stockbridge and the current unrest. Serious stuff for once

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on11:51 pm - Aug 2, 2013


TSFM,

I appreciate the if not support, the benefit of the doubt, for what it is worth I am here to civilly discuss the Rangers case, if that proves too disruptive then I will leave, it is not worth the hassle for either of us.

” Forty-eight posts in forty-eight hours is usually the work of an insomniac or an obsessive, and the “it’s all CW’s fault” stuff is all very MSM.”

I will endeavour to reply less, except to newtz, I like newtz.

View Comment

Reilly1926Posted on11:52 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:

August 2, 2013 at 11:36 pm

1

0

Rate This

Quantcast

I wonder if might suggest cost cutting measures

what might be the easiest way to cut costs?

How about reneging on the 8 pre contract deals with players currently known as trialists

if they are on 5k a week then that is £2M annual saving without so much as a boca/Goian/Sandaza/Kyle style pay off.

would be harsh on the players and could just be enough to force Ally to walk (another £1M saved when he and his backroom go)

And all the season ticket money would be in then as well.

Would be a genius stroke if he could pull it off. (not to mention comedy gold)
=================

I reckon you are going along the right lines with this.

The one fly in the ointment is that The Rangers Fans can stop the direct debit (staged payment) but by now has realised that there is the emotional attachment not to do this.

Did he not sell 2 of Sheffield United’s top players on the last day of the transfer window while CEO down there ? (I’m not sure if this was in the same year of their very successful share issue)

They chased him out of town thereafter.

View Comment

newtzPosted on11:57 pm - Aug 2, 2013


Steerpike says:August 2, 2013 at 11:28 pm

what is relevant is if the debt to Liberty Corporate is listed in the D&P accounts as a liability, and I don’t believe it is, I think some one may have noticed.
The bottom line is D&P do not accept the claim made by Liberty Corporate
————-
Sorry Steerpike ….. thats a very strange answer …. you come across as knowlegable, and I think you are …. but either you are tired, or are going into deflection mode ……. what claim ?
Sorry but will have to disengage for now !

View Comment

Lord WobblyPosted on11:57 pm - Aug 2, 2013


BBCBMcLauchlin @BBCBMcLauchlin 2h
Lithuania prosecutors now seeking his extradition from Russia
when they establish Romanovs whereabouts.#bbcsportscene

BBCBMcLauchlin @BBCBMcLauchlin 2h
Prosecutors in Lithuania have found a property in Russia they
believe is owned by Romanov valued at £50 million.
#bbcsportscene

View Comment

upthehoopsPosted on11:59 pm - Aug 2, 2013


TSFM says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:38 pm

This blog is undoubtedly critical of RFC and RIFC, and the consensus is not sympathetic to either of those clubs. However there MUST be room for an alternative view,
========================================
I agree. It is all about how people respond to an alternative view, and there are no issues there IMO.

View Comment

john clarkePosted on12:00 am - Aug 3, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:11 pm
‘…. So he was partially to blame but I don’t blame him, he is a flawed human being just like you and me.’
——
Maybe like you, Steerpike.

But not at all like me, or the thousands of ordinary, non-hubristic, non- megalomaniacal , tax-paying, decent folk who are football fans who do not employ people like Jill Troon to tell their lies for them, or pervert the whole soul of Scottish ‘ sporting integrity’ by lying to the Football authorities to gain ‘ sporting advantage’.

More like the ‘flawed’ Herr Hitler or Uncle Joe or Auntie Maggie.

Three men who also never said ‘Sorry! Forgive me’

Bad bast.rds.

View Comment

Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:02 am - Aug 3, 2013


Reilly1926 says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:52 pm
0 0 Rate This

The one fly in the ointment is that The Rangers Fans can stop the direct debit (staged payment) but by now Chuckles has realised that there is the emotional attachment not to do this.
=================================

ah, but CG (Sorry TSFM, i forgot that word was banned – it’s been a while sine we mentioned him!) likes a bit of drama

he’s already had his concerns about costs spiralling publicly aired

he will be charging in on a (white) steed to warn if Admin 2 (technically Admin 1, but shhhhh!)

The bears will be told of the danger unless costs are reigned in, cash running out, admin, everyone for sale – i even expect VERY public pressure to be put on Ally to take a wage cut. (Mather could ease this by taking a 50% wage cut – though he’d still be on 250k a year! But what a gesture and it would leave the “rangers men” looking in a bad light if they didn’t play ball)

So, it’s all a bit of drama….it could easily be justified with some spin and a compliant media…..

I’d feel sorry for the 8 players (well, only a little as they kinda sold their soul to the devil on this one) but i think it would be next year before i stopped laughing!

View Comment

Reilly1926Posted on12:02 am - Aug 3, 2013


Steerpike says:
——————
I hope I don’t sound too pedantic but could you possibly separate comments pasted with your own with a line. It would help at least me.

View Comment

TSFMPosted on12:04 am - Aug 3, 2013


john clarke says:

August 3, 2013 at 12:00 am
But not at all like me, or the thousands of ordinary, non-hubristic, non- megalomaniacal , tax-paying, decent folk who are football fans who do not employ people like Jill Troon to tell their lies for them, or pervert the whole soul of Scottish ‘ sporting integrity’ by lying to the Football authorities to gain ‘ sporting advantage’.
_____________________________________________________________________

Godwin alert ❗ ❗
Someone came up with JackLarg. I think that was more sinister sounding, and evocative of the dark arts. Jill Troon is more pantomime 🙂 – or even MSM :slamb:

View Comment

paulsatimPosted on12:06 am - Aug 3, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1m
Paul Murray with Rangers best interests at heart.

http://i.imgur.com/DmUlZQz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oC410q8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ygf4eog.jpg

View Comment

TSFMPosted on12:06 am - Aug 3, 2013


Reilly1926 says:

August 3, 2013 at 12:02 am Steerpike says:
——————
I hope I don’t sound too pedantic but could you possibly separate comments pasted with your own with a line. It would help at least me.
___________________________________________________________________________-

Okay! Who were you mixing SP up with? We want name(s). We should be told!!

View Comment

TSFMPosted on12:08 am - Aug 3, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1m
Paul Murray with Rangers best interests at heart.

http://i.imgur.com/DmUlZQz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oC410q8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ygf4eog.jpg

______________________________________________________________________
CAPITAL Ouch!
😳

View Comment

SteerpikePosted on12:13 am - Aug 3, 2013


@John Clarke

” But not at all like me, or the thousands of ordinary, non-hubristic, non- megalomaniacal , tax-paying, decent folk who are football fans who do not employ people like Jill Troon to tell their lies for them, or pervert the whole soul of Scottish ‘ sporting integrity’ by lying to the Football authorities to gain ‘ sporting advantage’. ”
————————————-
He gambled on a tax avoidance scheme with disastrous results, he did not gas anyone.

On that pleasant note I bid you goodnight, the coffin awaits.

View Comment

Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:21 am - Aug 3, 2013


on Sevcos call for an EGM to oust board members…the Rangers Supporters Trust has tweeted this

@rangersfctrust: Info: Jim McColl is behind today’s news. Not sure of exact amounts but he has acquired shares and has 30-40% backing from investors. >>>

@rangersfctrust: McColl’s not looking to control the club but to stop the haemorrhaging of money which has worried investors. That’s all I know at present!

———————————

Now, the bears on Followfollow see this as great news that a Rangers man is trying to chase the spivs out of the club/company* (*delete as apt)

But i read that as confirmation that they are burning through cash (maybe still £1M+ per MONTH)
the cash is running out
and that the objective is to cut costs to prevent another admin/liquidation.

Wo, what will that practically mean? Well, it won’t be pumping their own cash in like a sugar daddy – it’ll mean cutting costs.

So, if green doesn’t rip up their precontracts, it could well be the new board will be looking to offload them all ASAP

I’d be wanting to get that contract signed right away if I was one of the 8.

What i’m not sure of though – is if they get there way, what costs can be cut? a few directors, maybe £300k a year saved. Small beer really. But getting rid of players will cost a lot more.

Basically, Sevco are fecked and we are now seeing manoeuvres to be the new owner before teh cash cow is milked to death.

View Comment

DelbhoyPosted on12:29 am - Aug 3, 2013


I’ve tried to read every post since, well, before the war : incisive and educational, learned and abrasive, informed and contentious. However I’ve never read an insight quite like that of Steerpike.
Adam used to give us all a hearty riposte, then went suddenly silent at Liquidation. I miss him ( occasionally I find ‘ The Adam ‘ on ScotsLawThoughts ).
Therefore, welcome Steerpike. Your role here, like all of ours, is not to answers questions.
Only ask.

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on12:31 am - Aug 3, 2013


Lord Wobbly says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:33 pm

StevieBC says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:00 pm

Some of the bears believe that Jim McColl is behind today’s
activity.
Don’t believe it for one minute, but has anyone heard
anything to suggest otherwise ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2383849/Rangers-war-battle-control.html
====================

Wobbly, you are quoting an MSM source to substantiate the McColl rumour ? 😯

OK, will stick my neck out for once.
I don’t believe any of the McColl stories.
Too convenient.
A proper Sugar Daddy…and not a poor billionaire from Motherwell.
Gives the bears a boost to hear that McColl is linked to their crappy club.
I will eat my sun hat if McColl is indeed their true saviour. [& TSFM can be my witness to that !]

View Comment

BangordubPosted on12:33 am - Aug 3, 2013


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paulsatimPosted on12:34 am - Aug 3, 2013


The Blueprint ‏@Blueprint_Bear 7m
There was always the suggestion that @RangersTaxCase got leaks from Rangers men. Is @CharlotteFakes the same?
Expand
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 3m
@Blueprint_Bear @rangerstaxcase No secret that I’ve spoken with some at the very top inside Ibrox. Some want the truth, others have agendas.

View Comment

paulsatimPosted on12:37 am - Aug 3, 2013


Rangers Supporters ‏@rangersfctrust 3m
@CharlotteFakes @Blueprint_Bear @rangerstaxcase A hacker, or plant, that’s as relevant as canals are in today’s world.
______________________________________________

tell that to the good folk of Panama, Amsterdam and Venice!!

View Comment

Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on12:41 am - Aug 3, 2013


Can Paul Murray actually sit on the board of a football club? I thought any director who sat on a board of a club who was then liquidated within 5 years of them being on the board was prohibited?

View Comment

paulsatimPosted on12:42 am - Aug 3, 2013


Lucas Hood ‏@Atomicpe 5m
“journalist of the year”Keith Jackson hunts another billionaire haha.
http://twitpic.com/d653iz

View Comment

paulsatimPosted on12:44 am - Aug 3, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:41 am

Been asking that on here and twitter since news broke and no response, but that was my understanding. Then again normal rules dont apply to “ra peepul”.

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on12:44 am - Aug 3, 2013


paulsatim says: August 3, 2013 at 12:37 am

Rangers Supporters @rangersfctrust 3m @CharlotteFakes @Blueprint_Bear @rangerstaxcase A hacker, or plant, that’s as relevant as canals are in today’s world.
______________________________________________
tell that to the good folk of Panama, Amsterdam and Venice!!
====================================
And not forgetting the $20Bn ‘new Panama Canal’ planned in Honduras.
Some Sevco fans lack awareness… 🙄

View Comment

john clarkePosted on12:47 am - Aug 3, 2013


TSFM says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:04 am
‘..Jill Troon is more pantomime 🙂 – or even MSM :slamb:’
—–
Jack is, indeed, no pantomime villain. He’s right in there with Party Propaganda Leader P.J. Goebbels.

I will take a leaf out of the manual used by the HR person at Ibrox.

I shall take Jill aside, and in an un-minuted , unwitnessed meeting, tell her to take voluntary redundancy (or else!), and leave me free to refer to Jack simply as Jack.

Particularly as we all know the reference. 😎

View Comment

coineanachantaighePosted on12:47 am - Aug 3, 2013


Can I just say since no one else seems bothered, “well done Partick Thistle and Dundee United” for an excellent game of football – a league game played like a cup tie. No goals but plenty of good football and a great atmosphere. Both teams now joint top of the league. 😀

My excuse is I was at the game and just back after a few pints in town.

Oh yeah, stop feeding the troll.

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on12:50 am - Aug 3, 2013


StevieBC says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:31 am
1 0 Rate This

Lord Wobbly says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:33 pm

StevieBC says:
August 2, 2013 at 11:00 pm

Some of the bears believe that Jim McColl is behind today’s
activity.
Don’t believe it for one minute, but has anyone heard
anything to suggest otherwise ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2383849/Rangers-war-battle-control.html
====================

Wobbly, you are quoting an MSM source to substantiate the McColl rumour ?

OK, will stick my neck out for once.
I don’t believe any of the McColl stories.
Too convenient.
A proper Sugar Daddy…and not a poor billionaire from Motherwell.
Gives the bears a boost to hear that McColl is linked to their crappy club.
I will eat my sun hat if McColl is indeed their true saviour. [& TSFM can be my witness to that !]
————–

Steve, the caller on tonight’s SSB I referred to a few posts back mentioned him as being part of moves to oust Mather, Green and Stockbridge. Seemed quite clued up, although you never know. But he spoke a lot of sense, also noting that CG has now reappeared after the ST money is in (which McCoist & WS have helped Mather collect). Rumours of dwindling IPO cash and a possible new admin are not usually mentioned in TRFC fan calls. Certainly left the hosts speechless.

View Comment

Flocculent ApoideaPosted on12:51 am - Aug 3, 2013


TSFM says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:04 am

Someone came up with JackLarg. I think that was more sinister sounding, and evocative of the dark arts. Jill Troon is more pantomime – or even MSM
__________________________________

Paul Troon works, phonetically.

View Comment

paulsatimPosted on12:53 am - Aug 3, 2013


StevieBC says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:44 am

dont think thats all they lack!

View Comment

Flocculent ApoideaPosted on1:00 am - Aug 3, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:41 am
Can Paul Murray actually sit on the board of a football club? I thought any director who sat on a board of a club who was then liquidated within 5 years of them being on the board was prohibited?
_______________________________
Maybe he could own shares and be a consultant. 🙄

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on1:08 am - Aug 3, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:41 am
3 0 Rate This

Can Paul Murray actually sit on the board of a football club? I thought any director who sat on a board of a club who was then liquidated within 5 years of them being on the board was prohibited?
———
You clearly haven’t been listening NTHM – it’s the same club; it was rescued out of liquidation and dumped in Div 3 by those enemies. If you don’t agree with that, and don’t stop saying it’s a new club, you’ll end up in the Ibrox Big Book of Bastards (that someone mentioned earlier (wottpi?)), and no one will speak to you, and you’ll be sent tae bed withoot yer tea. You’ll be there, of course, along with the rest of the rational-thinking world 🙂

View Comment

john clarkePosted on1:50 am - Aug 3, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:13 am
‘..He gambled on a tax avoidance scheme with disastrous results,..’
——-
No, no.

You trot out the’ tax avoidance’ aspect as if that was at the heart of the matter. As a few earlier defenders of the indefensible have done.

It is not now, and never has been, the real problem.

Because It is ( theoretically, at least) possible that the Upper TierTax Tribunal may confirm the the FTTT’s decision, and let the dead RFC (and its directors!) off the tax evasion hook.

That would change nothing,( except to confirm that SDM hadn’t the courage of his convictions and chickened out by roping in CW)

Because being or not being a tax cheat has never been anything but a secondary, if important, matter.

The real heart of the matter lies in the deliberate failure to tell the Footballing Authorities, as clubs are required to do, that they were remunerating their players far more generously than they declared in the players’ contracts that were submitted to said Authorities.

And submitted to the best administrator in the world!
.
Which gentleman had personally been remunerated by the same tax evasion/avoidance mechanism, while employed by the tax evading/avoiding club.

Whose protestations of innocence, and insistence that he was not ‘conflicted’ are, frankly, too absurd to be accepted.

In the view of many, the close connection between the best administrator in the world and SDM allowed RFC’s lies about the remuneration being paid to players to be concealed, so that the penalties that would otherwise be rightfully applied would not be applied.

And this, for many years.

So, Jack, for I think you may be no other, your apparent reasonableness is not, in my opinion, anything other than artful spin to divert, deflect this blog from concentrating on the gathering feeding frenzy of the sharks (tired old sharks now) scenting yet more blood from the corpse.
Sleep well, unlike not a few others who might, conceivably, have their collars felt in due course.

View Comment

CastofThousandsPosted on1:57 am - Aug 3, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
August 2, 2013 at 3:51 pm

“RIFC PLC will change it’s name to Soccerball Property CO (or similar) and may even buy tynecastle with the balance of the cash they have and do the same to hearts!”.
———————————
That thought crossed my mind also. Perhaps there is a market out there for distressed football club properties.

View Comment

CastofThousandsPosted on2:16 am - Aug 3, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 5:46 pm

“There are some who believe a man can own assets others have paid for, I am not one of them.”
——————————-
Who paid for the assets?

View Comment

fara1968Posted on2:18 am - Aug 3, 2013


john clarke says:

August 3, 2013 at 12:47 am
2
1

Rate This

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TSFM says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:04 am
‘..Jill Troon is more pantomime 🙂 – or even MSM :slamb: ’
—–
Jack is, indeed, no pantomime villain. He’s right in there with Party Propaganda Leader P.J. Goebbels.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Hmmm a bit to far I think.

View Comment

john clarkePosted on2:28 am - Aug 3, 2013


coineanachantaighe says:
August 3, 2013 at 12:47 am
‘..Can I just say since no one else seems bothered, “well done Partick Thistle and Dundee United” ‘
—–
Ach, I don’t know.
I could listen only to the first 10 minutes of the first half, and the last ten minutes of the second half ( the everloving requiring the radio to be switched off during dinner with our delightful American house-guests).

Rob McEwan is not the best of commentators, anyway, and I tend, rightly or wrongly, to lump him in with the :slamb: brigade.

But, credit where credit is due, I am happy to accept Derek Ferguson’s enthusiastic endorsement of the game as having been a really enjoyable, competitive match.

And for Partick Thistle to slightly have been the better team on the night on their return to the top level, is encouraging. ( Let me declare an interest. My late sister was married to the son of a Thistle groundsman!)

View Comment

jimlarkinPosted on2:35 am - Aug 3, 2013


http://money.uk.msn.com/features/what-will-liquidation-mean-for-coventry-city

View Comment

CastofThousandsPosted on2:37 am - Aug 3, 2013


Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 6:17 pm

“The charge is valid when the court declares it valid, his original claim was turfed out as drivel, ”
===============
I was intrigued by that remark and even more so when I read :
===============
Steerpike says:
August 2, 2013 at 7:33 pm

“difference between registering a floating charge and the charge being upheld, if it has not been challenged it is because it has not been submitted to any court, wonder why ?”
————————-
“turfed out as drivel” and “not been submitted to any court” might seem like anomolous statements to some. Perhaps you could explain the distinction?

View Comment

john clarkePosted on2:51 am - Aug 3, 2013


fara1968 says:
August 3, 2013 at 2:18 am
‘..Hmmm a bit to far I think.’
——-
Granted, the systematic lying propaganda of Goebbels resulted in dreadful, off the scale, horrors against which mattesr of sport and entertainment pale into total and absolute insignificance.

However, the capacity to lie and deceive that some people have betrays an attitude of mind that is not dissimilar to that of the gauleiters.

If one is ready to lie over matters that do not seriously matter, what will one not be prepared to lie about in matters that really affect one ?

Is it likely that a man who lies, for money, to protect , say, a Football club, will hesitate to lie to save his skin at the expense of other innocent people’s lives?

Would the Jacks of this world act as PR men for the Adolphs, to save their skins?

They lie for money.

What would they not lie about to save their miserable skins?

View Comment

CastofThousandsPosted on2:54 am - Aug 3, 2013


beatipacificiscotia says:
August 2, 2013 at 8:32 pm

“If not, there are details on Charlotte Fakes of an agreement to secure Murray Park against loans for money used to acquire Rangers’ assets from D&P.”
————————
I think this is part of the jigsaw and may jog memories :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/141736878/imran-rafat-craig-aidan-chris

It does not deal with the contractual relationship between the different parties however.

Cutting to the chase, the Letter Before Claim if you want to indulge your curiosity. I seem to recollect that the legal advice went all the way down to the Basil II clauses.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/141684147/RFC-Letter-Before-Claim

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