Good Afternoon.
As virtually anyone on the internet who follows Scottish Football has come to realise, there is a reasoned and determined attempt at ignoring the content of the Charlotte Fakeovers files on the part of the mainstream print media— and indeed by the broadcast journo’s to an extent.
There is widespread speculation that the accessing of the information provided by Charlotte the Harlot was not all above board and the reluctance of the journalists to mention or comment on the documents, so far published on the internet, is often explained away by the lawyers allegedly advising that the content is tainted and so on.
That indeed might or might not be the case, and only the editors, lawyers, journalists and so on will truly know what their stance is on the revelations. Some will want the whole thing suppressed and others will be desperate to get into print, but thus far are frustrated in any attempt to do so.
However, as the documents do appear on the net only to be quickly followed by file disappearances and so on, there is an ever burning question which must be asked and thrown open to debate and argument.
The issue is not just how independent are the Sports Press in Scotland, but whether or not the relationship between certain sections of the press and Rangers or The Rangers is in fact lawful and deserving of football sanctions.
There is no doubt that many big businesses, local authorities and Governments use the services of PR firms and the likes to get information out to the public and to put their slant on any given situation. That is fair enough.
However, in recent days we have seen the release of documentation which, if accurate and true, shows that a leading Scottish PR company were specifically employed to place stories with the press which were designed to damage the reputation of, to embarrass or cause problems for certain other teams and personnel involved in Scottish Football.
Again I stress that all of this is subject to the caveat that what Charlotte is publishing may or may not be real and accurate. However, if what has been produced is in fact the genuine correspondence between the club and its professional advisers then that correspondence needs to be looked at.
The SFA and indeed the SPFL are the bodies that lay down rules which govern the conduct of clubs and their officers and employees.
So looking at these regulations let me just repeat some of them here:
Fisrt the rules of what was the SPL and which I presume are the rules of the SPFL:
A3.1 In all matters and transactions relating to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith.
A3.2 No Club, either by itself or its Club Officials, shall by any means whatsoever unfairly criticise, disparage, belittle or discredit any other Club, the Company or the League or in either case any such other Cub or the Company’s directors, officers, employees or agents (which shall, for the avoidance of doubt, exclude supporters).
The SFA handbook at article 5 places obligations on members to observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play, and to refrain from engaging in any activity which would constitute a breach of sections 1, 2 and 6 the Bribery Act 2010.
The details of the Bribery act can be found here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/23/section/2
Basically, I think these rules mean that you cannot criticise belittle or try to damage the reputation of a club outwith the rules of the games and must at all times behave with integrity, in a sporting manner and with THE UTMOST GOOD FAITH!
The details,as released by Charlotte, show that there is at best a conflict of interests at times with various parties being both employed by the club and paid by radio stations or newspapers to comment on matters relating to all aspects of Scottish Football. As a member of the PR staff at Ibrox presumably such employees are paid to tow a certain party line when commenting in the media and so throw a spin on any given set of facts and circumstances that suits whoever is in control of Ibrox.
Further, it has been suggested that certain individuals acting in this way can also represent the views of for example Walter Smith — and so act as their mouthpiece if necessary.
Such practices may be unpleasant and undesirable but not necessarily against the laws of the game. It would just mean that the newspapers and broadcasters concerned cannot be regarded as independent or objective in their comments or views — they are merely towing an employers line. In short they are HMV— His Masters Voice!
Equally, we have seen supposedly independent journalists and editors referred to in such a way that it is clear they are being asked to spin news a certain way for whatever reason — including the suggestion that if they do not comply then some kind of action will be taken which the parties concerned would rather avoid — such as private matters becoming public.
However, of far greater interest is the suggestion that where necessary the newspapers or whoever will be used to spread negative stories about another club, its employees, directors or whoever.
Such a position may well amount to a breach of articles 3.1 and 3,2 of the SPL ( now SPFL rules) and against the principals set out in the SFA handbook.
Both the SFA and the SPL ( SPFL) has a press office and legal officers.
Both grant rights to broadcasters and journalists, and allow members of the press access to their officers and officials.
Both bodies are free to set out what is acceptable conduct on the part of clubs in this area…… and what is not!
Without even alluding to the detail of the Charlotte revelations, or needing to enquire into the details of the Charlotte documents, I would have thought that the governing bodies would be capable of issuing a formal reminder, to all clubs currently playing at any level in Scottish football, of the content of these rules and that any breach of the rules will not be tolerated.
Of course the matter becomes more convoluted if any officers of the SFA or SPL were involved in the employment of any PR companies or agencies on behalf of a member club and engaged in briefing any such agency about what to say when it comes to the affairs of other clubs. Surely you cannot have an executive officer of a governing body who is in any way linked to the employment of an agency which breaks rules on behalf of a member club?
However, few of these people ever appear on the airwaves to answer questions on a personal basis, and very few expose themselves to questions from the public.
However, many of the commentators and journalists named in the Charlotte documents are regulars on the airwaves and could, in theory, be asked whether or not they are no more than “Their master’s voice” as would appear to be the case if the Charlotte documents are in fact genuine.
If the Scottish Footballing Public are to be entrusted with the truth — and why shouldn’t they in this era of open and transparent football governance– then I think they are entitled to enquire direct whether or not the journalists, players, ex players,managers directors, broadcasters and governing body officials believe in articles 3.1 and 3.2 of the SPFL rules and article 5 of the SFA handbook?
Oh– and maybe the same people could provide some practical examples of what they would consider to be breaches of these rules and what the appropriate sanctions might be?
Specifically– do the actions mentioned in the Charlotte documents ( if true ) fall within the football rules or not?
Or do the SFA and SPFL just ignore placed press releases and comments?
It would be interesting to know.
Palacio67 says:
July 28, 2013 at 10:49 pm
I think this (folk who complained May/June 2011, particularly if they pursued it up the complaints chain,) following up on their previous complaint asking for a review in light of information complainant has read..
Ecobhoy
I’d be happy to let Nevin explain his actions here (although I am not interested in what constitutes a sectarian song to him), but he’d have to be prepared to answer the questions that would arise from what he says.
He wouldn’t be answering to Celtic fans exclusively on a Celtic related matter here either. We are mainly interested in editorial interference and trust.
TSFM says:
July 28, 2013 at 11:14 pm
Ecobhoy
I’d be happy to let Nevin explain his actions here (although I am not interested in what constitutes a sectarian song to him), but he’d have to be prepared to answer the questions that would arise from that.
He wouldn’t be answering to Celtic fans exclusively on a Celtic related matter here either. We are mainly interested in editorial interference and trust.
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I agree with you on his thoughts as to what constitutes a sectarian song – it isn’t pertinent IMO anyway as he apparently didn’t hear any singing on the day.
Perhaps fellow-posters could post what they would like to be asked as questions so that TSFM can send them as an open letter to Nevin. I have a few but will hold-off and give others the chance to comment. I think it would help TSFM if they are short direct questions which also tends to restrict the amount of waffle that can be inserted into a reply.
To me the important questions have got to centre round what actually happened that day in terms of editorial and production discussions and decisions rather than what sectarian song, if any, was sung.
Tif Finn @8-02pm.
Excellent summary.
But all of this begs the question, What Now?
Media House proudly list all their clients on the Website.
Perhaps these same clients should be informed of Mr Irvine’s activities re Celtic Football club. Some of these companies would I am sure be horrified to be associated with MH if they fully understood the possible repercussions of such blatant antagonism towards a club with hundreds of thousands of supporters in Scotland. Loss of business means loss of income.
In this case it could be financially unwise to be connected to an organisation whose culture is embroiled in this controversy. And whose top man is steeped in Bigotry.
Good Evening.
I am in two minds — nothing new in that.
First, I fear we have to be very cautious because so far all we have seen is a document via Charlotte the Harlot which shows that MH stated that they “briefed” someone at the BBC.
The BBC may use another term such as discussed, or spoke to or something else. Just because Media House say they did this or that– does not in actual fact mean that everyone who was party to the discussion or whatever sees their actions in the same way.
It is entirely possible that they in fact “briefed” no one!
They may have tried to, but failed— they may have been ignored altogether.
However, the very use of the term, that the term was reported — all of that tells me that at the very least they believed that what they were doing was “briefing the BBC” on a negative news story about another football club at the behest of Rangers FC.
Now, it takes a certain mindset to set that train in motion. It takes a plan, actioning the plan, and if the plan has been actioned regularly then such events become standard practice or policy — to be carried out almost automatically as a matter of course.
Earlier, in the Charlotte leaks, we saw e-mails from MH which clearly point to a concerted attempt to besmirch the reputation of Dermot Desmond in relation to one of his companies being involved in a nursing home story, and a second e-mail which actively talks about and searching for a negative Celtic story to take up space on the sports pages.
Forget that both these e-mails involve Celtic as the identity of the actual team does not matter — though in West Central Scotland such a story about Celtic is going to have a bigger impact than say a story about Dundee or Kilmarnock or Aberdeen.
The point is that there seems to be evidence that shows that the idea of negative stories was not a new thing and was not any kind of innovation — it appears to have been established practice.
Think on that for a little.
For a practice to become established, it has to have been shown to be successful in the past — in the eyes of the practitioner.
While it is interesting to note the exact body language of Rob Mclean, his careful use of words and the reactions of Nevin compared to Hartson ( as reported on here ) — this incident is not and cannot be the whole story — or even the most important story.
Rob McLean ( who as I understand it can count at least one ardent Celtic fan within his immediate family ) chooses his words very carefully and makes it plain that he has not heard the singing and that the report is coming through his ear! I also think ( and Phil Mac seems to confirm ) that he was instructed through his earpiece to raise the topic!!!
Once again– just think on that for a moment. A producer instructed McLean to raise the topic!
If you cast your mind back to the days when Craig Whyte and his crew “Gave notice” to the Court of Session that Rangers might appoint an Administrator, does anyone really think that this step would have been taken without there having been a full PR plan worked out as to how to deal with the situation in the media?
As we know, HMRC fired the starting pistol early, and so maybe the PR machine had to crank up to speed quicker than expected– but crank up it did.
From Admin day on — we had journalist after journalist and commentator after commentator tell us that while sporting integrity was one thing, Scottish Football would do the pragmatic thing as football without Rangers was a financial disaster.
How many people suddenly sang that tune? yet where was the evidence for such a statement.
Could it be that journalist after journalist were in fact “briefed” to sing such a tune?
Could it be that Scottish Football found itself in the midst of a crisis which was part made of myth and propagated by the Rangers PR gurus through the radio, television and newspapers?
And when Ally McCoist demanded names — notwithstanding that the Rangers legal team already knew the names — was that statement made in a burst of emotion or as a result of a PR briefing on how to face the media on that particular topic?
You will note that the very same document that talks about the BBC briefing also shows that MH had been preparing speeches, questions and soundbites for Sandy Jardine — so it is not unreasonable to assume that they would do similar for the club manager.
The responses from the BBC re the McLean comments show that they are on the back foot here, but the McLean comments are far from being the issue.
I wonder if there were any briefings for the days when the likes of Stewart Regan or Neil Doncaster took to the airwaves?
Further, MH reports and invoices would be interesting to see.
TSFM says:
July 28, 2013 at 9:46 pm
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Good call TSFM, thank you
The fact remains that if Celtic have been founded say by a Breton, or a Welshman, and from time to time the fans sang a Breton or Welsh song in his honour, it would not be an issue. The fact that they were founded by an Irishman was at the time, for many, and remains today for an uncomfortably large number of Scots, an issue.
One Scotland, many offended.
I’m setting myself up for multiple TD’s I,m sure (hopefully not). As a guy who could sing you most songs in the traditional Irish song book I always felt any chant’s in support of an organisation with three letter had no place at Parkhead or anywhere and still don’t.
Would like to say a hello to all you guid folks!
Been reading from the sidelines for some time now with a growing exasperation.
Whilst everyone is arguing about payment to trialists. Fireworks. Rob McLean/Pat Nevin. Jack Irvine/MH ……. the great scam that is Rangers (Uninterrupted) continues apace.
Simple fact of the matter is ……. only one of two things will bring this to an end.
1. Any club cheated out of prize or position makes formal complaint to UEFA/FIFA. And they’re are dozens (domestic and foreign) to choose from.
2. Everyone stops paying into the Scottish game until such time as we see the necessary wholesale change required (within SFA particularly).
What’s the odds on either happening any time soon?
TSFM says:
July 28, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Arabest
Like you I have had the experience of PN’s company on several occasions. I have nothing against him. In private he takes a back seat in discussions, which is not a bad thing, but he tends to think with his mouth on TV. Because of that, he got found out that day. Given the location of the TV studio at Hampden, I’d be pretty sure he was not in a position to hear whatever the fans were singing, which is probably why Rob M made it clear that he had been told by those outside.
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So what exactly is TSFM getting at, that because he didn’t give the disclaimer (I didn’t hear it), he was wrong to criticise what Celtic fans do regularly at most away grounds anyway (and ignored, a la Sevco fans)?
Along with Stuart Cosgrove, I would consider Pat Nevin to be one of the few Scottish football media pundits who views are not drip fed to them by vested interests or “PR” companies.
Me personally? I’m an atheist, I don’t believe in religious fairy tales, but respect the fact that some may believe otherwise. I don’t like Celtic (not hate, life’s too short for that), just as much as I didn’t like the old Rangers (or any current tribute act). To me, both really are separate cheeks of the one arse. Celtic were more than willing partners in creating the “Old Firm” brand.
To now find out that “Rangers” were trying to use their influence to load the dice in their favour, well boo-feckin-hoo. Celtic were quite adverse loading the dice in their favour for the last 15 odd years (with RFC(IL)’s help) against every other Scottish club. I didn’t hear much solidarity with the rest of Scottish football when they threatened to leave to other leagues.
@TSFM The Irish Post piece focused on the Irish element of the story (naturally).
We wanted to know if the BBC in Scotland considered the Irish national anthem or the Fields of Athenry to be sectarian.
I told the BBC guy (Press Officer) to expect calls from the main Irish titles on this story if we ran it.
It was after this that the reference to ‘songs’ became just ‘song’.
In the back channels I knew that rob was instructed to say what he said.
Now this story comes around again.
It does certainly look like…ahem…’news management’.
The BBC should be better than that and-IMO-they now have a serious case to answer.
I tried to edit my previous post but it looks like there is a time limit to doing so (I can only type with my index fingers, I’ll really need to sit down with Mavis Beacon and work on that!)
Just a comment on a post by Phil. Because Rob McLean stated Celtic fans singing sectarian “songs” at the final, Rob was out of order and furthering a Media House agenda. But if he said Celtic fans sang a sectarian “song”, Rob’s comment would have been justifiable?
Even so slightly pedantic?
The Pat Nevin thing seems to be getting out of hand.
It appears to been on some Celtic fans agenda for some time and CF revelations do appear to confirm suspicions that something was afoot at the BBC. Whether that was influenced by Media House or anyone else is the question and like everyone else I would like clarity on the matter.
However Pat Nevin was being told by the presenter that ‘sectarian’ singing was heard. He was then asked to comment.
From the transcript below IMHO he takes a pretty broad brush approach, providing us with a personal view that sectarianism has no place in the game, no matter at what club (he mentions 4 biggies just to make sure he isn’t singling anyone out) and then implies he supports the official stance of Celtic Football Club.
So PN is either in on the conspiracy or, on live TV, where remember is job is to talk and fill in the 15 minute half time slot, merely taking the word of the trusted presenter (thus no discliamer required) who himself is trusting the powers that be whispering in his earhole that ‘sectariam songs’ have been heard..
My question would be at what point did the producer decide to raise the issue and how long were both McLean and Nevin given to prepare for their, ‘half time chat’. Nevin’s stuttering start suggests to me that he wasn’t that well prepared to address the topic.
Rob Maclean
I’d love to go through a football show without mentioning the word sectarian but I feel we have to at half time because those outside who can hear the songs being sung tell me that the Celtic supporters have been singing some sectarian songs during the first half despite Celtic going very public with their intimation that they wanted it completely stamped out. Lots of publicity for Rangers, punishment for Rangers from UEFA as well, it seems as if it’s happening outside from the Celtic supporters, Pat.
Pat Nevin
I’ve actually had a few Celtic supporters during the week…I was very strong for mentioning it last week as well and I’ve had a few fans saying “Oh they’re worse than us”. Forget about that. If you sing those sort of songs at a football ground, do you know what? I’m going to mention it every time I hear it and I don’t care if it’s Celtic or Rangers or Hearts or Hibs or anyone. I will mention it and let’s embarrass those teams. I was only slightly disappointed that there will be some who will sing it. It’s up to others, good fans, to boo them out to drown them out and maybe it’s up to the police to go in and have a little word or two as well. But they’re not listening to their club but their club are saying the right thing.
Radiccio says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:18 am
TSFM says:
July 28, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Arabest
Like you I have had the experience of PN’s company on several occasions. I have nothing against him. In private he takes a back seat in discussions, which is not a bad thing, but he tends to think with his mouth on TV. Because of that, he got found out that day. Given the location of the TV studio at Hampden, I’d be pretty sure he was not in a position to hear whatever the fans were singing, which is probably why Rob M made it clear that he had been told by those outside.
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So what exactly is TSFM getting at, that because he didn’t give the disclaimer (I didn’t hear it), he was wrong to criticise what Celtic fans do regularly at most away grounds anyway (and ignored, a la Sevco fans)?
Along with Stuart Cosgrove, I would consider Pat Nevin to be one of the few Scottish football media pundits who views are not drip fed to them by vested interests or “PR” companies.
Me personally? I’m an atheist, I don’t believe in religious fairy tales, but respect the fact that some may believe otherwise. I don’t like Celtic (not hate, life’s too short for that), just as much as I didn’t like the old Rangers (or any current tribute act). To me, both really are separate cheeks of the one arse. Celtic were more than willing partners in creating the “Old Firm” brand.
To now find out that “Rangers” were trying to use their influence to load the dice in their favour, well boo-feckin-hoo. Celtic were quite adverse loading the dice in their favour for the last 15 odd years (with RFC(IL)’s help) against every other Scottish club. I didn’t hear much solidarity with the rest of Scottish football when they threatened to leave to other leagues.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Two things maybe three.
One I can’t see any mileage in going on about Celtic being partners in the “Old Firm”. Yes they were but those days are gone and I believe if they were to be brought back by those in control at Celtic their fans would have a lot to say about it.
Two – you say Rangers and Celtic were “loading the dice” against all other clubs. Financially they did and that is a fact but the Rangers “loading of the dice” is something more sinister and involves the perpetuation of sectarianism in Scottish Football and from that a poisoning of society for commercial and political ends.
Three – does being at the next table to PN at the refectory of the old Glasgow Tech (now GCU) count as having experienced his company. I did once speak to him there the day after he single handedly put Motherwell out of the Cup during his Clyde days and congratulated him on having played a blinder the night before.
PhilMacGiollaBhain says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:41 am
Phil ….. teaching a granddad (sic) to suck eggs here ….. but aren’t you simply highlighting the crux of the matter?
That being, no matter what the Govan club do, i.e.;
Failure to pay transfer fees
Failure to pay social taxes
Failure to properly register players over a sustained period of years
Failure to treat member clubs with due respect
Failure to make due contributions towards upkeep/protection of national services such as armed forces and emergency services
Failure to abide by the rules of the game
Failure to abide by the laws of the land
Failure to ensure the safety of those who cross the path of their fans
Failure to protect those upholding the laws of the land and the game
Failure to prevent their manager puting the lives of innocent parties at risk
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Neither the governors of the national game, the SMSM nor any of the other clubs affected by their misconduct are prepared to criticise, condemn nor cite. To each (and for purposes of self survival) Rangers (Uninterrupted) continue to be the victims in this tawdry affair.
Whilst everyone in the know, knows what is going on yet fails to act to prevent such misdemeanours …… how can anyone expect real and significant change?
Every medical practitioner will tell you ……. the only way to beat a cancer is to eradicate it.
Pray tell? Where is the will to eradicate the cancer to the Scottish game that is Rangers (Uninterrupted).
Radiccio says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:42 am
I tried to edit my previous post but it looks like there is a time limit to doing so (I can only type with my index fingers, I’ll really need to sit down with Mavis Beacon and work on that!)
Just a comment on a post by Phil. Because Rob McLean stated Celtic fans singing sectarian “songs” at the final, Rob was out of order and furthering a Media House agenda. But if he said Celtic fans sang a sectarian “song”, Rob’s comment would have been justifiable?
Even so slightly pedantic?
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No. You’re missing the point. Rob didn’t hear the singing but was prompted by his producer to bring the subject up. The suspicion is that the programme/producer had been briefed beforehand and/or contacted on the day by MH/JI as part of the “Rangers policy” to plant negative stories about Celtic in the media – what better opportunity than a live Cup Final?
Saddo here watching the Food Network.
Small filler with a Satay house owner in Malaysia wearing the hoops.
wottpi says:
July 29, 2013 at 1:11 am
It’s a repeat.
Although ………. he was wearing a Celtic Nation top in some episodes 😉
Why on earth would an organisation like the BBC need a ‘briefing’ on what is, or isn’t, sectarian? An outfit like the BBC has access to almost unlimited resources.
Some posters have pointed out that it appears that JI refers to a ‘call’ rather than a meeting. The fact is that this is effectively an invoice, this wasn’t done for nothing.
An Aberdeen fan posted about how this planting of stories hasn’t affected his club. He should look at the reporting of the ‘Chelsea supporting casuals’ who had pre-arranged bother with Aberdeen supporters or the frequently repeated accusation that Aberdeen ‘raised their game’ against rangers or the oft-repeated guff- usually just before an Aberdeen v rangers game – that Jess was signing for rangers.
Stories planted by people trying to protect or unsettle. Every club in Scotland has suffered because of this.
The fact that Charlotte is posting proof of what most people suspected was true, and it has gone unreported, aside from when it suits those editors who chose to comment on recordings which were favourable to the Cardigan, points to a scandal of enormous proportions.
Rob MacLean and Pat Nevin are not the issue here – nor is it the number of songs – nor is it the fact that whether BOTOB is comparable with the Famine Song.
A week or so after RFC were fined by UEFA for sectarian singing, RFC have been shown to have paid an invoice (assuming CF has correct information – so far no one has denied it) where one of the activities being billed for was informing the BBC about a fellow member of the SFA/SPL in order to create trouble for them and deflect from their own issues.
It would seem to have worked because a producer instructed Rob to highlight that sectarian songs were being sung – even though neither he nor Pat heard them.
The question is really simple
Who asked/requested/instructed Rob MacLean to address this topic at HT and was this same person the one who met with Jack’s cohorts earlier? If not the same person, then is there a connection.
This is the question we need answered.
On same topic – I get tired of the both as bad as the other nonsense – my support of Celtic is possible because they are an inclusive club – I could play for them. RFC I could have played for too since I kick with the right foot, however I don’t like exclusive clubs. Inclusive always trumps exclusive in my opinion!
Regarding the Rob McLean/PN half time sectarian song issue, I might be wrong but if my memory serves me correctly, the individual (outwith the studio), who has supposed to have informed Rob, about the sectarian singing, was actually from an individual who at the time was identified as a Hearts supporter, but his name, it’s irritating me that I can’t remember it.
Im positive a few days after all this happened I read somewhere, I can’t recall what blog/site it actually was, but the person who informed Rob was identified, can anyone help me put my curiosity to rest, remember the individual in question please?
TSFM says:
July 28, 2013 at 11:14 pm
I’d be happy to let Nevin explain his actions here (although I am not interested in what constitutes a sectarian song to him), but he’d have to be prepared to answer the questions that would arise from what he says.
He wouldn’t be answering to Celtic fans exclusively on a Celtic related matter here either. We are mainly interested in editorial interference and trust.
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The idea of asking Nevin to answer questions on here is novel and good. However, given that he enjoys significant employment from BBC Scotland and BBC Five Live, is he really going to be too revealing of what he knows in terms of Editorial decisions? I suspect Nevin’s offer to discuss with Celtic fans at an agreed forum is simply to press his case of what songs shouldn’t be sung and why.
Only my thoughts.
Folks, there are some people who can’t help themselves here. We are straying into territory that we asked you to stay away from. Unfortunately some people are just not adroit enough to have their say on Pat Nevin and Rob McLean without either justifying or condemning alleged behaviour the Celtic support.
The behaviour of fans will lead only to more whataboutery and partisan outbursts which although mildly entertaining, have the capacity to drag us down.
TONS of places where you can fill your boots with that stuff, but at the risk of a deluge of mails about how we are depriving people of their human rights etc, we will remove anything to do with alleged sectarian singing regarding ANY club, or the RM/PN stuff (other than as a reference to the Media House thing).
The trolls are really loving this and a few have been on the slither this evening.
Thanks for your forbearance.
Is it really a surprise that the Rangers ‘black ops’ Media whallahs are contacting the BBC, you’ll be telling me next that Celtic callers to Radio Clyde are very often ‘plants’ and that the papers attempt to destabilise Celtic before big matches with negative stories!
It is all business as usual for the professional football industry in Scotland, as far as I can see – shining a light on it , may surprise some folk – me shrug shoulders and look forward to the next European tie.
What will be the next relevation from Media House?
They flood the Daily Record hotline and comments section , they fed the papers whataboutery after Manchester – I used to firmly believe that the papers just made stuff up to protect Rangers but it seems that the journalists are only reporters ( i.e. describe a game and print post match quotes) , they need to be fed stories from Ibrox and have the text verified by whoever is in charge in any given week at Ibrox
All to win a football match , it really is desperate stuff, still it means that they are not focusing properly on managing their own club and they seem determined to pander to the lowest common denominator in their support.
Possibly the stupidest run club in British football.
What worries me about the whole Media House thing is how much influence they would appear to have and the hold they seem to enjoy over the media here in Scotland.
I don’t have a huge problem with lobbying or briefing in general. Political parties have always done it and will never stop. Lobbying, spin, deflection – it’s all part of the game. However, at least in the political world there are media forums that will challenge the views being put out there. For every Daily Mail there’s a Daily Mirror, for every Telegraph there’s a Guardian. I don’t even have a problem with Rupert Murdoch pushing his agenda’s through his own outlets. After all what’s the point in being a media baron if you don’t get to push your ideas to the top of the pile?
Media House however go unchallenged. Surely there is someone in the Scottish press world who is prepared to stand up to this bullying or does every editor have a dirty little secret that Irvine knows about?
@Drew Peacock
Spot on.
That is the sequence of events that I believe led Rob McLean to making that half-time announcement
upthehoops says:
July 29, 2013 at 7:13 am
The idea of asking Nevin to answer questions on here is novel and good. However, given that he enjoys significant employment from BBC Scotland and BBC Five Live, is he really going to be too revealing of what he knows in terms of Editorial decisions? I suspect Nevin’s offer to discuss with Celtic fans at an agreed forum is simply to press his case of what songs shouldn’t be sung and why.
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I totally take on board what you’re saying but at the end of the day we all have to make decisions on where we stand. Nevin has appeared before a Holyrood Committee to air his views on sectarianism and I’m afraid you can’t court that kind of publicity and kudos IMO if you are a coward and not be prepared to tell the truth when the crunch comes and might affect your pocket. It means that all else is mere posturing.
At the game in question Nevin appeared to be quite happy to forcefully state that he would report and comment on sectarianism whenever he witnessed it – it is ironical he doesn’t appear to have witnessed it at the game in question 😕
However in making that very public statement he appeared quite happy to go against the BBC’s apparent policy that sectarian singing was not a matter to be discussed by commentators. So he appears to have the moral fibre to stand up to his paymaster. Or does he in view of other outbreaks of such singing that he has ignored – perhaps his bosses have whispered in his ear that he does as he is told or else and is only allowed to parade his conscience when they tell him to.
At the end of the day he can answer questions put to him or not on here and we can make our individual judgements on his actions as a supposedly impartial journalist with brains elsewhere than his feet. I think TSFM is right to separate singing from the ‘politics’ of what decisions were taken by the BBC and Nevins definition of allowable songs is not germane to that real issue which involves identifying what external sources are exerting editorial control over the BBC and for what reason.
Isabel being evasive and very condescending………..
Roy Greenslade @GreensladeR 26 Jul
@IsabelOakeshott why are you named in @CharlotteFakes Rangers revelations?
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott 26 Jul
@GreensladeR @CharlotteFakes Abs no idea. Vaguely recall @Brendanjmcginty ringing me about a story I wrote 15 yrs ago. Wasn’t able to help
Lucas Hood @Atomicpe 27 Jul
@IsabelOakeshott @GreensladeR @CharlotteFakes @brendanjmcginty You then alerted Jack Irivine to this allegedly.Why?
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott 27 Jul
@Atomicpe Can’t remember – sorry. Wasn’t a big event. I take/make dozens of calls every day. Nobody south of the border cares…
Exiled Celt @The_Exiled_Celt 2m
@IsabelOakeshott @Atomicpe @GreensladeR @charlottefakes @Pmacgiollabhain Many people north of the border DO care that we have corrupt press
Govan club supported by , SMSM, BBC,SFA,SPL etc…..Certain lyrics spring to mind.
We get by with a little help from our friends.
Sadly you also died with a little help from the same friends.
Truth hurts but tends not to be fatal. Honestly, try it.
Apologies if previously posted.
http://www.prweek.com/…/Media-House-chairman-Jack-Irvine-lodges-complaint...
He can dish it out,but he can’t take it.Typical playground bully.
It would be interesting to hear RTC’s take on the whole idea of press briefing.
From the outset RTC promoted forward the idea that sports reporters in the MSM pandered to what they identified as their main market by running generally positive stories to try and maintain their sales figures. This was repeated in the piece he wrote for the Guardian.
Did RTC choose to water down his interpretation of why the MSM show bias in order to make it more digestible (appear less paranoid) for the general public, or does it turn out Rangers were more Machiavellian than even RTC gave them credit for?
Either way it would be good to hear RTC’s point of view.
helpmaboab says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:34 am
—————————————
“Jack Irvine Lodge’s Complaint”…..
So now you’re telling us Jack Irvine has his own lodge….where is it going to stop??
Exiled Celt says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:01 am
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott 27 Jul
@Atomicpe Can’t remember – sorry. Wasn’t a big event. I take/make dozens of calls every day. Nobody south of the border cares…
——————————————————————————————————————————————-
And Isabel, your point is? What the hell has lack of interest elsewhere got to do with anything???
Can I just add one word to your deflection Isabel? Nobody south of the border cares…YET!
helpmaboab says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:34 am
Apologies if previously posted.
http://www.prweek.com/…/Media-House-chairman-Jack-Irvine-lodges-complaint…
He can dish it out,but he can’t take it.Typical playground bully.
——————————————————————————————————–
Has the bully instructed them to take offline as page not found.
Anyone grab a screenshot to see what it’s about?
Not good news……
Gregor Kyle @greg0rkyle 5m
This week’s Back Page Monday will focus on Hearts after the statement given to @Record_Sport at 11am this morning: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liquidation-threat-hangs-over-hearts-2101523 …
The Daily Record
Liquidation threat hangs over Hearts as UKIO Bankas knock back bids…
By The Daily Record @Daily_Record
HEARTS’ main creditors have stated that the tabled takeover bids ‘are not satisfactory’ and that, unless offers improve, they will soon be left with no option but to liquidate the football club.
Had a look at prweek.com, Jack’s certainly put it about! Defending Clause 28; the Rover 4; the daily record; Steve Purcell; MIH; RangersIL; Craig Whyte….no wonder he goes by the nickname ‘Lucky’!
Disappointing news re the Hearts situation, however it is just the first hurdle.
While I appreciate there is a need to do the best for each group of creditors one has to think that a realistic view has to be taken with regard to the value of Tynecastle.
While Cala were willing to give the Pie Man £20m times have changed.
I would have thought that those left in the bidding process need to get towards what is a reasonable price of the land etc in today’s depressed market.
Like when there was talk of Ibrox being sold and redeveloped I am not sure there will be a line of developers keen to be tarred with the brush of being the ones who killed off the club.
Unless Isabel Oakshot has some pals down south because, apparently, they don’t care!!
iamacant says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:59 am
http://www.prweek.com/uk/news/989185/Media-House-chairman-Jack-Irvine-lodges-complaint-Sunday-Herald-article/
I’m sad to say I don’t think Hearts as we know them will continue to play football this year or certainly not for the full season.
I’m don’t think they will or can achieve a CVA because the Lithuanian administrator will do what it is right for his creditors. That is his job and fair enough especially if break up gives him the biggest recovery.
He has no emotional involvement with the club or the city.
He is not playing poker with the bidders and has a figure the prospective purchasers have to meet.
I believe it will be done honestly though – not the way D and P handled the Rangers liquidation.
I think Hearts only option will be a Newco and maybe a rebirth as a community club.
A Newco looking for somewhere to play after Tynie gets sold to the highest bidder (Housing).
A Newco without players and employees.
I don’t know but I doubt if there will be a new 5 way agreement finagled to allow Newco Hearts into the top league.
Or even the level Sevco were handed – the fourth level.
Given that the entry level to SPFL is now the Lowland or Highland Leagues (joint 5th level) time will tell if they will be accelerated to somewhere higher, maybe The CO connection will see them sorted.
However even as an ex Hearts season book holder I don’t think they should be given any leg up.
The same as I disagreed with everything the 5 way agreement finagled for Sevco.
And sadly this won’t be the last as some clubs still battle crippling historical debt from spending money they could never have justifed as businesses.
wottpi says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:27 pm
Unless Isabel Oakshot has some pals down south because, apparently, they don’t care!!
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
Maybe they do not care down south as they do NOT know the truth, ie for example look at where SKY and talk sport get their info from?
Presenters like Andy Gray, Jim White??? honest unbiased view really.
I care and it infuriates me how Sevco story is not portrayed in an honest manner. .
Perhaps another avenue for exploration for internet bampots and any watching journalists alike.
What if a PR company on behalf of a client(s) were lobbying and/or briefing as to how a liquidation event should be described in the TV, Radio, Internet and printed media, contrary to accepted legal and public opinion?
If such activities had taken place (and I am not suggesting for one minute that this is the case) then this could be interesting from a number of points.
Now I accept that some hold the view that Rangers football club has not died (I do not subscribe to that view). However, if there has been a concerted media campaign to spin liquidation to meet the agenda of a party – then to my mind the following questions come into play:
(1) Who (if anyone) commissioned the briefings and for what purpose? An admission that liquidation = death of the entity and all that went with it, and the accompanying desire to [attempt to] re-write history?
(2) What media organisations (if any) were briefed – and did they accept the premise offered to them? If so why were the accepted views on liquidation discarded?
(3) If there was a concerted campaign to spin liquidation – have any laws been broken where the club did not die premise is accepted and continued?
Perhaps this is a line of investigation that can be probed further.
By The Daily Record @Daily_Record
HEARTS’ main creditors have stated that the tabled takeover bids ‘are not satisfactory’ and that, unless offers improve, they will soon be left with no option but to liquidate the football club.
=====================================
Liquidate the football club you say.
Long Time Lurker says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:44 pm
If that is the case then Jim Traynor was not onside.
He quite clearly stated that liquidation meant the death of the football club and the loss of 140 years of history. His epiphanic moment came after he accepted the (lucrative) head of communications job at the new club.
vvvg
Tif Finn says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:57 pm
Long Time Lurker says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:44 pm
If that is the case then Jim Traynor was not onside.
He quite clearly stated that liquidation meant the death of the football club and the loss of 140 years of history. His epiphanic moment came after he accepted the (lucrative) head of communications job at the new club.
==============================
That reminds me what Burley said, “They have risen from the ashes of liquidation”.
To paraphrase Mr Shakespeare ,
“for the want of a dictionary my credibility was lost”.
Finloch says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm
=========================
Finloch, a pretty pessimistic view. The UKIO administrator IS playng poker with the bidders for Hearts – it’s called negotiation and trying to get the best deal for creditors (as you note). Too early to call time of death for HMFC 1874, just yet. The sticking point for selling the Gorgie site may be that it’s not zoned for housing development, despite strong pressure on planners in Edinburgh to provide opportunities for as many as possible to be built over the next 25/30 years.
Tif Finn says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:49 pm
8 0 Rate This
By The Daily Record @Daily_Record
HEARTS’ main creditors have stated that the tabled takeover bids ‘are not satisfactory’ and that, unless offers improve, they will soon be left with no option but to liquidate the football club.
=====================================
Liquidate the football club you say.
———–
No, no, no. They don’t mean that at all. They mean that some other bit, that doesn’t really matter anyway, will disappear. The Scottish Rule states that football clubs never die, they re-incarnate, morph, or clone into the same thing. It’s a magic process. Any pixie will confirm this 😀
Question is, should Morton or Dundee move up a division asap?
Ianjs@12:39pm
Thanks.Not sure why it was showing page closed.
So let’s analyse what Rob Maclean actually said during BBC Scotland Sport’s most prestigious live programme of the year
“I’d love to go through a football show without mentioning the word sectarian” – so why didn’t he? Nothing had happened in the previous 2hrs and 15mins of the show in that regard but of course Rangers and sectarian had been in the news just one week earlier when an overseas organisation had fined the now defunct club for the behaviour of its supporters
“but I feel” – you feel? or your producer feels? Rob needs to make a statement now to clear his name.
“we have to at half time” – why did Rob not feel he had to at half time 2 months earlier when viewers had had to listen to 2 verses of the Famine Song and a chorus of “no Pope of Rome” during the first half of the Communities League Cup Final? In May 2011 was it just a case of “we’d rather not discuss a cup final that Celtic are winning” ?
“because those outside” – Media House and/or the BBC producer/ the commentator/a disgusted neutral??
“who can hear the songs being sung tell me that the Celtic supporters have been singing some sectarian songs” – what sectarian songs?
“during the first half despite Celtic going very public with their intimation that they wanted it completely stamped out” – let’s drive a wedge between the team and its supporters on this, their most important day of the season
“Lots of publicity for Rangers, punishment for Rangers from UEFA as well,” – equality/balance/impartiality
“it seems as if it’s happening outside from the Celtic supporters, Pat.” – compromise someone with a Mickey name, force him totally unprepared to adopt a position – only one position fits – and so justify your approach
None of this of course would have come to our knowledge but for the internet and CtH. “internet bampots” indeed, Mr Keevins – two words which explain why your paper and others like it are dying and why phone ins will die off this year
Apart from the fact that BBC owes Celtic and its supporters one big apology – and as far as I am concerned that needs to come on day 1 of the new season or I won’t be tuning in again – one of the first things that needs to happen is that Ken MacQuarrie needs to suspend the producer concerned and carry out a full investigation into the extent of Media House’s meddling in BBC independence.
It is now abundantly clear that Murray and his puppets have tried to control Scottish football, its governing authorities, one of the two main banks, all of the print press, both main broadcast media outlets in Scotland, and local radio, the irony being of course that as was ultimately shown, Murray couldn’t even run a bath far less his own group of companies.
54 (ways to lose money)
I presume Hearts will be asked by the SFA / SPFL to provide assurance / a business plan which will demonstrate that they will be able to see the season out.
It’s getting very close to the new season starting for any changes to be made.
Unless of course there was a team just ready to step into the Scottish Premiership and help the rest of Scottish football out. For the good of the game obviously.
Step up to the plate Morton.
James Traynor,Head of COMMUNICATIONS.An oxymoron surely.Delete the oxy bit.There that’s more like it.
Finloch says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Does Edinburgh really need (and can it support) another community club?
http://www.spartansfc.com/about/
blu says:
July 29, 2013 at 1:16 pm
Finloch says: July 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm
=========================
Finloch, a pretty pessimistic view.
……………………………………………………………………………………………….
Not pessimistic in the long term because I think Hearts will find a way back and said so.
But unlike the recent Glasgow parallel HMFC and Tynecastle won’t be sold to interested parties at fire sale prices.
I’m certain there is no scam in the pipeline.
Sadly HMFC is probably worth more in a break-up scenario so that is the price-point and the only game in town.
I think its a game that is too rich for the current bidders because the numbers don’t and can’t ever add up.
wottpi says:
July 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm
0 0 Rate This
Finloch says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Does Edinburgh really need (and can it support) another community club?
http://www.spartansfc.com/about/
……………………………………………………………………………..
wootpi
Spartans are showing the way to many clubs in Scotland.
They deserve a place in the SPFL and will be a fine member when they get their chance.
I’ve been at Ainslie Park and been mega impressed with the set up but a teacher pal of mine sings the praises of their community coaches.
I think if all clubs were genuinely inclusive community clubs our game would be stronger for it.
And that doesn’t mean wee clubs.
To me community clubs can be big or small starting at Celtic down,
It is when clubs abuse theirs or other communities through their non football policies or their approach to business that things go wrong.
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott 27 Jul
@Atomicpe Can’t remember – sorry. Wasn’t a big event. I take/make dozens of calls every day. Nobody south of the border cares…
———–
I do !!
iamacant says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:59 am
14 0 Rate This
helpmaboab says:
July 29, 2013 at 11:34 am
Apologies if previously posted.
http://www.prweek.com/…/Media-House-chairman-Jack-Irvine-lodges-complaint…
He can dish it out,but he can’t take it.Typical playground bully.
——————————————————————————————————–
Has the bully instructed them to take offline as page not found.
Anyone grab a screenshot to see what it’s about?
————
Still there. It’s about JI’s complaint about Sunday Herald coverage of Steven Purcell story:
“Media House chairman Jack Irvine lodges complaint with the Sunday Herald over article
PRWeek reported that Irvine had been called in by Glasgow City Council leader Steven Purcell last week to manage the media attention surrounding his resignation. Irvine worked alongside Peter Watson, a litigation expert at the Glasgow law firm Levy & McRae, who was also advising Purcell.
An article in the Sunday Herald at the weekend criticised Irvine’s role in handling the press and ran with the headline: ‘How PR advisers made a crisis out of a drama.’ The article claimed Irvine’s approach was ‘so old-school it was prehistoric’, and was ‘aggressive’ and ‘clumsy’.
However, Irvine told PRWeek: ‘I have lodged a complaint with the Sunday Herald following publication of the article. It has made allegations about the PR strategy but it has no idea about the hidden issues involved. We were also not given a right of reply. The Sunday Herald has attacked me personally and it has no reason.’
He added: ‘I am asking for an apology and correction and am prepared to go to the Press Complaints Commission if I don’t get it.’
The newspaper also alleged Irvine and Watson had gone on holiday to the Cayman Islands for ‘a week’s holiday at a five-star hotel’ while the story still dominated the media. This has since been removed from the online article following a complaint from Watson.
Irvine added: ‘This allegation is terribly damaging. I have in fact been in the Cayman Islands for work, as has Peter. Also, Steven Purcell left the UK before me and I am here working for a mere three days. It’s a long way to come for a holiday.’
Purcell’s resignation was initially attributed to ‘exhaustion’, but more recent press reports have included allegations of drug use as a contributing factor to him leaving his role.
The Sunday Herald could not be reached at the time of publication.”
Slightly OT but a few ideas for moving the influence of TSFM beyond the already enlightened…
• Been mentioned before but a monthly (or whenever) press release containing purely facts/latest news.
• Publish a lobby list – contact details of decision makers/influencers/hacks throughout the UK.
• Send press release to lobby list…
• Get on Facebook. No doubt you’ll get more trolls but the viral capability of FB means stories can easily be seen by 10s of 000s of people. Facebook could just be another way of distributing the press releases – not to replace this site.
• Publish a separate page on PR – what exactly it is. There are now more PR folk than journos but the former profession is not nearly well enough understood. It should be at the front of people’s minds when they are trying to rationalise the sometimes baffling antics of large organisations.
36. Finloch says:
July 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm
====================
Perhaps if liquidation comes about the money/promises of support can be used to help build a new club? Is that feasible or is it legally committed only for buying the current club?
“Jack always gets paid” – maybe that should be changed to “Jack always gets betrayed” ?
“know your friends” – first lesson of PR Jack, thought you would have known that.
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott 27 Jul
@Atomicpe Can’t remember – sorry. Wasn’t a big event. I take/make dozens of calls every day. Nobody south of the border cares…
Hmmmm, I wonder how that will play with the better together campaign?
Finloch says:
July 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm
==============================
You may be right Finloch that Hearts will end up in liquidation but there isn’t anything like a decent market for buying that site in Gorgie, which I think offers their fans some hope that a CVA can be delivered by BDO. Previous publicised valuations for Tynecastle by both Romanov and his predecessor were ludicrous in an Ibrox £100m kind of way. BDO and the Lithuanian admins will clearly aim for the best deal for creditors but I doubt that UBIG/UKIOs admin could expect to get even £10m for the debt and land. Maybe our better informed Hearts fans would be prepared to return and give us the benefit of their knowledge of this?
Exiled Celt,
In essence I think you are correct, however I think their needs to be a few more answers provided by the BBC.
I posted these questions on Saturday , and I think they all need answers from the BBC. All of the questions from 2-7 are subject of course to the BBC confirming that in the first instance they had a call / meeting / briefing with or from Media House
1 Was there a briefing from Media House of what constitutes pro ira songs, or songs of a sectarian nature
If yes,
2 why did the BBC consent to a briefing from Rangers on a matter which didn’t concern them and would be correctly construed by them as an attempt to damage another club
3 Who reported the alleged pro ira singing
4 was that person involved in the briefing with media house, or instructed by anyone involved in the briefing with media house
5 has media house ever briefed the BBC against any other Club or business on behalf of Rangers
6 what is the bbc guideline in relation to briefing by PR agents, and did the briefing by media house fall inside or outside of those guidelines
7 does the bbc react to negative pr briefings which are designed to damage competitors of the company paying the PR agent
TSFM and its Contributors have re stored my faith in human nature; I take my hat off to you all joining the dots phew! Props Due. And to all them cats blowing whistles, real heroes! Respect! thank you.
The Sevco Sagathon reported discussed and dissected on TSFM is by far more interesting, fascinating, inclusive, exciting, original than any condescending newspaper/TV propaganda distraction dross!!
Are you reading this Isabel Oakshott? This is the way news is received and discussed nowadays, traffic on TSFM/CF Twoots will tell you that folks are intensely interested in this story and the serpents involved in it. This story WILL end up mainstream very soon… perhaps we shall let the people decide if they care about what the MSM and establishment get up to in the shadows.
I didn’t bother about Rangers/Sevco before, in fact I used to feel sorry for the fans of RFC, I even believed the Ally ‘Cheeky Chappie’ myth, my opinions on these matters have changed big time – starting with Ally’s speech from hell: ” who are these people etc”, I could not believe it, considering there were RFC fans up in court the week previous for sending bombs and threats through the post, his words were dumb and calculated . Folks needed police protection after receiving threats and arson attacks on RRFC after Ally’s speech.
Compare Ally’s rousing rant to the young teenage lads that got over 4 years for stupid calls to riot in Dundee city center on Facebook on the back of the London riots, it never happened of course and they’re were no victims but those daft laddies were well punished.
I’m fed up reading about people imprisoned on a daily basis for stealing cheese, razors, deodorant from supermarkets whilst spivs, sirs, swindlers, bankers are allowed to steal millions in Tax money from the public purse safe in the knowledge their serpent buds at the newspapers /msm/ hellyrood/Polis stations will do whatever is possible to protect, deflect, lie, bribe to protect this vermin.
I do not have any faith in the authorities any more, the polis, the justice system, the newspapers or politicians in this country, Scotland now seems to me like some political testing ground where they experiment with corruption and power, with us scots as lab rats.
My interest in football is fading, I still have a season book for UTD but its no longer the same game anymore, It’s so easy to get distracted thinking of the work going on in the shadows by the SFA, MSM organizations that are clearly operating AGAINST the peoples interests?
This country does not need more sectarianism yet the newspapers/msm are clearly engineering this poison, only in Scotchland.
With regards to CF’s latest revelations re negative engineering via Mafia House, who can remember the total relentless propaganda used by the Sun and Daily Record to get Goodwillie to sign for The Rangers? The papers were doing the clubs bidding there’s no doubt yet they must have knew they could not afford him , that did not stop the desperate rangers press trying to get their man. I wonder if Charlotte has any further info on the Goodwillie story?
Did the BBC Censor Dundee UTD fans singing v Sevco In this years Scottish cup trouncing? Utd fans sang for the whole game yet the BBC showed a match played almost in complete silence?
Thanks to Charlotte and the latest revelations, it becomes clearer why they did this.
Should Hearts be allowed to play any of the scheduled SPFL fixtures given this uncertainty around their future?
Should the league not take steps to postpone ALL their fixtures and if things work out, re-instate them for later in the season.
Would be easier to rectify the league standings if no games with hearts were ever played (i.e. players who pick up red/yellow cards, clubs who would benefit/lose out later in the season if matches/results/goal difference was expunged)
Never mind worrying what format/league their tribute act applies for (if one is created) What about the integrity of the league right now. Should the SPFL suspend their fixtures?
Leadership and decision making required now.
Barcabhoy says:
July 29, 2013 at 3:01 pm
It is really worth stressing that this is the BBC we are talking about. The national broadcaster, operating under royal charter and funded from the public purse. Partly from licence fees. In short, we pay for it.
That is totally different from companies like STV, Sky etc which are owned by media groups and may have their own agenda. Their main driving force is profit and the interests of their shareholders.
The BBC should be totally impartial and transparently so. If they are not then the people concerned should be removed. Anything other than 100% impartiality is not even remotely acceptable.
On the news re Ukio Bankas’ rejection of all 3 offers:-
I never doubted that it was going to be a struggle for any bidder to achieve a CVA, and for the club to remain at Tynecastle. I am, on the other hand, hopeful that a deal might be made where the club is sold on to, say, FOH, with Tynecastle remaining in the hands of the Ukio Bankas administrators. While there is a tremendous emotional attachment to the old ground, the supporters have long acknowledged, though many have fought against, the possibility/probability that the club would have to move in the foreseeable future, so it would be accepted by the fans. I can’t see the creditors getting more money if the club is liquidated than if it is sold separately with the stadium eventually sold to the highest bidder, who just might be Hearts, but more probably a developer. This initial knockback was only to be expected and I think there will be a couple more before there is a preferred bidder named (or not), or one bidder (probably FOH) changes their bid to club (players, brand etc) only.
This, I believe, was not really an option for Rangers, with the supporters attachment to the stadium being more than emotional, seeing it as a bastion of all things British/Loyalist etc etc, and the loss of Ibrox would have been too much for their WATP mentality to take, so it had to be all or nothing. Green wasn’t going to pay for the club without the heritable property anyway, and, I suspect, that any genuine Rangers men wouldn’t want to be seen as ‘the men who sold Ibrox’ rather than as the men who genuinely saved Rangers.
I don’t know what will come to pass, but one thing’s for sure, should we survive without Tynecastle, we, the supporters, will have paid the price of our consecutive owners’ mismanagement. Perhaps that would be the right and proper outcome.
I know it’s not football related, but, I r em ember reading about how far the cover-up’s can extend in Scotland
When people in high places are involved. . . .
http://www.conspiracytruths.co.uk/holliedemandsjustice.html
Tif Finn says:
July 29, 2013 at 3:54 pm
====================
Tif Finn, in the perverse logic of some the BBC has a negative bias in all matters Rangers. No doubt Murray planned to set and control the news agenda and it would seem that he largely succeeded in for a couple of decades of promoting the line that all was better than rosy in all areas of his business empire. Our interest is football but the rest of his debt is the real story. We heard sportswriters and commentators admit that they knew nothing about business finance and complain that they couldn’t be expected to keep up with tax avoidance schemes and what not. This in reference to a small part of the MIH ’empire’ that was Rangers – where were the business correspondents while MIH was screwing the publicly funded banks for £800m of loans, secured against what? He surely couldn’t have valued all of his business properties in the same way as he did Ibrox, could he? Maybe those year-on-year tens of millions of pounds of losses at Rangers were part of the plan?
jimlarkin says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Defies belief. The people running my country are a disgrace.
blu says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm
0 0 Rate This
Our interest is football but the rest of his debt is the real story. We heard sportswriters and commentators admit that they knew nothing about business finance and complain that they couldn’t be expected to keep up with tax avoidance schemes and what not. This in reference to a small part of the MIH ‘empire’ that was Rangers – where were the business correspondents while MIH was screwing the publicly funded banks for £800m of loans, secured against what?
==============================================
Probably dining from the same menu, at the same restaurant, as the sports hacks .
tomtom says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:37 pm
3 0 i
Probably dining from the same menu, at the same restaurant, as the sports hacks .
==============================================
An offshore restaurant?
Allyjambo says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:09 pm
This, I believe, was not really an option for Rangers, with the supporters attachment to the stadium being more than emotional, seeing it as a bastion of all things British/Loyalist etc etc, and the loss of Ibrox would have been too much for their WATP mentality to take, so it had to be all or nothing. Green wasn’t going to pay for the club without the heritable property anyway, and, I suspect, that any genuine Rangers men wouldn’t want to be seen as ‘the men who sold Ibrox’ rather than as the men who genuinely saved Rangers.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think it possible that after the spivs have cashed in and cleared off Rangers supporters will realise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKFEjZ98Q4s
Tif Finn says:
July 29, 2013 at 12:49 pm
43
0
Rate This
Quantcast
By The Daily Record @Daily_Record
HEARTS’ main creditors have stated that the tabled takeover bids ‘are not satisfactory’ and that, unless offers improve, they will soon be left with no option but to liquidate the football club.
=====================================
Liquidate the football club you say.
…………………………………….
I think you will find it is only Financial liquidation and not the other type…
Allyjambo says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:29 pm
Jimlarkin says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:14 pm
I too had heard of the story Jim mentions but I like some of the various outrages around the world that occassionaly get posted and passed on my way via facebook etc my first instinct is also to type in the subject and then ‘hoax’ or ‘myth’ just to get another persepctive.
That way, if you can be sure of seeing both sides of a story and who is possibly driving (or avoiding) the agenda on both sides.
I have always gone with the theory that for ‘cover ups’ at some point, if things are true, someone will blab to Inspector Knacker or the wrong doer will get eventually get caught one way or the other.
Unfortunately, as we have seen in some recent cases my theory has taken far too long to get the required results.
How long we will need to get the truth in our little football debacle is anyones guess.
“There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Swinton_(journalist)
jimlarkin says:
July 29, 2013 at 4:14 pm
%%%%%%
Have a look at this link, sometimes coincidence is a conspiracy of facts!
http://www.thedrum.com/news/2010/03/24/drum-editor-responds-irvines-claims-he-was-brought-heel-libel-lawyer
Does anyone know what the mode of transportation was used to beam the Rangers team to and from their match yesterday ,we should be told.