Guest Post by James Forrest
Those who like to read the techno-thrillers of Tom Clancy will remember well the scene in The Sum of all Fears, when the nuclear bomb explodes in Denver, outside the stadium where the Super Bowl is being played. Clancy handles the moment in two very distinct chapters. The second is a vivid and frightening examination of the explosion’s terrible effects as they are felt, firstly in Denver and then experienced around the world.
Before that, he devotes an entire chapter to the mechanics of the explosion itself. Chapters like this are either what attract readers to Clancy in the first place or turn them off entirely. It is technical, it is complex, and the layman who reads it and fully understands it is indeed a massive geek. Of all the times he has loaded the reader with technical detail, this is probably when he risked most in terms of keeping you interested in the story. Yet it works. The chapter is not long, but nor is it short. And the events in it span not seconds but fractions of a second
It was in that chapter I first learned the term “shake”, so named for the old aphorism “a shake of a lamb’s tail”. A “shake” is a term used in nuclear physics. It represents ten nanoseconds. To grasp fully the size of that, consider that there are a billion nanoseconds in a second. The chemical process involved in a nuclear detonation involves a number of “shakes”, with a chain reaction usually completed in 50.
Clancy’s decision to devote an entire chapter of the book to a few nanoseconds came back to me over and over again during the weeks and months of the Rangers crisis. It became clear to me that, drawn out though the events following administration were, what we were seeing was not the effect of the explosion but the explosion itself. Those months were our nanoseconds. Every day, every revelation, every moment we thought was a separate event, was merely a peek inside the bomb case, at the chemical process of a chain reaction.
I would say the chain reaction was completed on the day HMRC announced they were refusing the CVA proposal. That was the detonation. It’s only now we’re witnessing the explosion, and its effects, and in my view we are still a long way from the end of that process. We have had the initial double flash thermal pulse and we’ve seen some EMP effects, but the real damage is still to come. The shock wave and the fireball have yet to spread, and their cumulative effects could yet annihilate Ibrox and extend as far as Hampden.
Am I making claims of “financial Armageddon”? No, I’m not. I never believed the collapse of Rangers would devastate Scottish football. I thought then, and now, that it was scaremongering nonsense to even suggest it. It didn’t matter to me whether the authorities were spreading those stories because of a deep-seated love of the Ibrox club, or because they had bonuses at stake, or out of their own internal, personal weaknesses. Those stories were inconsistent, based on worst case scenarios which were never likely to materialise, and insulting. The notion that the game in this country amounts to no more than one or two teams is offensive.
I love football. I always have. I’m a Celtic supporter, but my interests in the game extend far beyond my own club. At its best, football is a tremendous unifier of people, from those wonderful stories about Christmas Day in the trenches of World War I to the matches organised every year between Palestinian and Israeli children. The game has the potential for tremendous good. I am proud that my own club’s supporters have honoured the dead of Hillsborough and Ibrox. I am proud they unfurled a banner to the Benfica player Miklos Feher, and invaded Seville and showed that city how to party. I am proud of every moment when the supporters of a club applauded an injured player, or staged a silence to honour an official or competitor at another team. Although there are some who would use this sport in a divisive way, who would hijack it for their own ends, I believe this game can still be an inspiration, and find the best in all of us.
I think what happened during this summer, as the fans of every club in the land made their voices heard, was one of the greatest moments in Scottish football’s recent history. I believe it will have an impact far beyond one season. I think it was special.
My concern, as I’ve said, is that the appalling effects of the detonation at Ibrox are still to be fully realised. I am worried about the impact they could yet have on all of us.
Let me be quite specific about the two things that worry me most. They are to do with the decision to grant Sevco/Rangers a license to play in the Scottish Football League this year.
First, I believe the license was granted without sufficient guarantees being given by Charles Green and others that they would respect the decisions taken by the independent judiciary panel of the SPL in relation to EBTs, and secondly, I am concerned that not enough is known about Green and his financial backers, or plans for Rangers, for the authorities to be satisfied that the club is in good financial health. I don’t believe for one second anyone can allay my fears in these two areas. It is obvious to all that due diligence has not been done, and the entire situation at Rangers/Sevco is still shrouded in doubt, and that anything may yet happen.
The independent panel investigating dual contracts is going to have to make the most momentous decision in the history of the game in the UK. I do not believe what Rangers are accused of has any precedent. We are talking about a decade or more in which the results of every single match might be in doubt. Every single game. The rules were not written to envision such an appalling breach of faith. It would seem almost inevitable that stripping of titles will be the smallest of Charles Green and Ally McCoist’s concerns if this verdict goes against them.
Frankly, I don’t see an alternative to suspending Rangers membership of football in this country for at least two years, with points deductions and monetary fines to follow when the suspension period is done. This is not harsh; in fact it falls far short of the maximum penalty, which is expulsion from the game altogether, and as it is the authorities are going to have to do a damned good job of setting out the reasons why that ultimate sanction is not applied. It will not be enough to say it would damage the game in Scotland to wipe the club away. To allow a decade of malfeasance to pass without that ultimate sanction would create the perception that Rangers is above the law, and I cannot think of anything that would do the game more harm than for any club to be considered too big, or too important, to be subject to the regulations.
With their money on the table, I don’t see any way Charles Green and his cohorts will accept the judgement of the independent panel if it has an impact on their plans to recoup their investments. With the way he’s rallied the Rangers fans behind him recently, by essentially talking about a conspiracy against them, I don’t see how he convinces them to accept sanctions, even if he personally was inclined to do so. He has painted himself into a corner where now, if he wants his money at all, he has to fight, and keep on fighting. Without the written guarantee that the club would accept whatever the panel decides, without recourse to the law, I will be shocked if this matter doesn’t end up in the courts somewhere down the line, because I don’t think for one second he signed up to that particular demand.
I think the SFA backed down on this, the most fundamental matter of them all.
Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.
At an early stage in the Rangers crisis, a couple of people told me they thought the club would not play football for at least a year. I told them of all the possible scenarios that was the most unlikely, because I honestly could see no way back for them once they had gone. There is no precedent I am aware of, anywhere, for a football club taking a “year out” only to return. Certainly, in the context of the Scottish game I didn’t see how it could be done without creating one almighty shambles, or by bending the rules until the elastic snapped.
Yet I’ve since become convinced that it was the correct course of action. The club calling itself Rangers FC is still in a state of flux. The issues still surrounding it are enormous and potentially devastating. There are any number of ways in which the entire edifice could utterly collapse. The liquidators and HMRC could yet challenge the takeover, or the coming share issue. Craig Whyte may yet emerge and take a claim to the courts. The share issue itself could be an utter failure, leaving the club unable to meet annual running costs. All of this, even without the vast effects of the EBT case, which has the potential to wash the whole club away.
Had Rangers been out of the game for a year, these issues could have been properly explored, dealt with and put behind them, and the game as whole.
Of course, it’s just possible that the worst is over. It’s possible that this particular nuclear detonation, like the one is The Sum of All Fears, is an enormous “fizzle”, that the appalling destruction unleashed will not be on the thermonuclear level which could obliterate our hopes of a fresh start, of forward motion for the whole game. It might be that everything at Ibrox is hunky-dory, that this, all I’ve written, is the product of a febrile imagination, on the same level as the financial Armageddon nonsense we spent the summer hearing about.
It may well be, but only if the people who’ve been right all along have suddenly gotten it wrong. The evidence all points to something big, and bad, coming this way.
The smart folks will be hunkering down in their shelters for a while yet.
James is a co-editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, latest issue out 17th October (digital, and free), featuring women’s football
Brenda says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 08:38
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Wonder what ‘big story’ the msm will use to cover the announcement of the FTT result? I really hope we don’t miss it!!!
____________________________________________________________________
Levein sacking of Scotland maybe!!
Brenda, donsfan
Maybe tomorrow night after the ‘shock’ of a possible defeat for Celtic In Barcelona?
Massive front and back page headlines on the game with the FTT result at the foot of page 5 in the smallest caption ever?
bogsdollox says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 01:15
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On “Your Call” on Saturday night Cosgrove actually asked Jim if he had ever received payment from Rangers and in JIms rude and not at all admired style he turned it into a joke by saying that they were more likely to pay him to stay away from them.
————————–
Mr Traynor did seem remarkably au fait with the details of the FTT announcement. But that could have been his own fiction. He was still pushing the ‘Arsenal got away with it’ and ‘Rangers are just being made an example of, since their offer to settle was rejected’ lines. After listening to him you could almost believe that RFC are the innocent victims in all of this.
I actually used to enjoy his Paper Talk programme on Monday nights but on this story he’s become a bit of a muttonheid.
Traynor spinning like a top
SAY what you like about Craig Whyte.
You can call him all the names under the sun but the one thing he isn’t is shy.
Well, not when it suits him. And not when £1million is at stake.
Despite being as elusive as a Rangers away win he felt compelled to set the record straight about his brief but destructive time as owner of Rangers.
BBC Scotland were granted an interview. It was car crash TV.
Here was a man, his credibility and character shredded, appealing for sympathy and
understanding. It was a bit ambitious.
A bit like Andrew Mitchell, who was forced to stand down as Tory chief whip last week, trying to gather support and friends in the Association of Chief Police Officers.
Even so, I must admit there were moments in that interview when it was impossible not to feel sorry for Whyte.
When he squirmed, or seemed to be searching the corners of his mind for answers to some difficult questions, he looked as though he might break down and start weeping.
Only a person of the most callous nature could have watched it and not felt something for Whyte, whose wide-eyed stare suggested terrible internal turmoil.
But then you discover how much he is still trying to squeeze out of Rangers and reality comes crashing back into view.
According to Ibrox sources Whyte, who bought the club for £1 and who borrowed just more than £20m against future season-ticket sales, expects Charles Green’s consortium to pay him £1m.
Whyte must have forgotten about that, and the request for six seats in the directors’ box plus four members’ tickets for life.
The demand was kicked out by Green and other directors.
It is believed the request was made to one of the main figures involved in the buy-out and there was outrage when it was put to Green and other directors.
They were astounded by the former owner’s audacity, although one suggested it might have been interesting to see if Whyte would have had the gall to have turned up in the directors’ box.
Rangers fans don’t want him anywhere near Ibrox and will be outraged that he thinks he’s due a penny never mind a million quid.
Of course Whyte might have been encouraged to seek payment because he was promised large sums by some of the other groups who tried to buy the club.
The Blue Knights, for instance, were prepared to pay him £500,000 but Green has no intention of giving him anything more than the £1, actually £2, he has already handed over.
Even Green’s group may have been forced to pay up at a point in the takeover process when Whyte’s share holding was required.
However, administration and then liquidation changed everything and Whyte became irrelevant, although by going to the Beeb he might have thought that somehow he could sway public opinion.
He really is out of touch. Some might say delusional.
But there he was, this baffling, complex but
ultimately unreliable little man still trying to convince the world he didn’t do much wrong.
It wasn’t his fault, he seemed to be saying. He was doomed to failure with Rangers because of the deeds of others before him.
Yet, by the time he was ready to hand over his £1 to David Murray he would have known everything about the club and, by his own admission, he was aware Rangers were likely to suffer some kind of insolvency trauma.
So why enter into that ridiculous deal with
Ticketus, which he denied until RecordSport
uncovered the documentary evidence, just to captain a sinking ship?
My own view is that he thought a ruling on the Big Tax would be made within weeks of his takeover and he would be able to put Rangers into administration blaming David Murray’s use of EBT to help pay players. But Whyte didn’t reckon on the verdict being delayed, which meant he quickly ran out of money.
He stopped paying bills, especially PAYE and National Insurance and, of course, HMRC allowed that situation to worsen when they should have taken swift action.
Had they done so they’d have saved all those small companies, who continued to trade with Rangers, money.
Hector might argue that his lot agreed to repayment plans, which would have seen Whyte pay lump sums of £300,000 to £500,000, but they must have known he wouldn’t pay up.
In fact, one of Duff and Phelps’ senior men, David Grier, was liaising with them and keeping them up to speed about what was going on within Ibrox.
They knew but they allowed this farce to continue.
He said that around August last year it was clear the money was all but gone – he’d made the mistake of relying on
European income – and that it was impossible to secure further funding because of the tax liability.
It seems to me Rangers must have been trading while insolvent and isn’t that a crime of some sort in the financial world?
Of course Whyte should never have been given the club by Murray but he was and it was his chaotic reign that put them down.
Without the huge cloud cast by the EBT case, for which Murray must accept
full
responsibility, the Ibrox club might have been a more attractive
proposition.
But Whyte believed he could profit from the purchase and it remains to be seen how much he made.
Hopefully that will be revealed when the legal investigations have been concluded.
It is believed the ruling on the tax case will be
delivered within days but even if it favours HMRC they won’t get any money.
The football company associated with EBT no longer exists and you have to wonder why the tax authorities didn’t take the £11m settlement fee offered to them a few years ago.
The amount of tax owed was just under £30m but with penalties having been added the amount may be running 65 per cent higher.
There will also be a National Insurance bill which could take the total to near £70m but all they’ll be left with is a precedent.
So why enter into that ridiculous deal with
Ticketus, which he denied until RecordSport
uncovered the documentary evidence
The football company associated with EBT no longer exists
Of course Whyte should never have been given the club by Murray but he was and it was his chaotic reign that put them down
He stopped paying bills, especially PAYE and National Insurance and, of course, HMRC allowed that situation to worsen when they should have taken swift action.
Had they done so they’d have saved all those small companies, who continued to trade with Rangers, money.
it was impossible not to feel sorry for Whyte.
Where do you start with this buffoon ?
Just back on. This has probably been posted. Courtesy of PMac site. As he says, “The truth’s starting to get out there!”
http://www.bingowonga.com/bingonews/8008/bingo-club-boosted-by-stoke-city/
donsfan on Monday, October 22, 2012 at 08:43
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Brenda says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 08:38
Levein sacking of Scotland maybe!!
—————————————–
It would need something of that magnitude, a one man marauding army to keep FTTT off the front page!!!!!!
I’ll get my coat!
He really is out of touch. Some might say delusional.
– Is he talking about himself?
But Whyte didn’t reckon on the verdict being delayed, which meant he quickly ran out of money.
– aided and abetted by the performance of the worst manager in the team’s history.
It seems to me Rangers must have been trading while insolvent and isn’t that a crime of some sort in the financial world?
– Been reading this blog Jim? BTW a crime is a crime, it doesn’t matter whether it’s in the financial world or any other “world”.
It seems the verdict of oor Jabba is that Hector is to blame – could have taken the £11m when offered, didn’t wind the basket case up sooner, blah, blah. Classic big boy did it stuff.
You are right, he is spinning like a top, spraying bullets in all directions in the hope that one will find a target.
How about yourself Jim? A bit of proper journalism a lot earlier in the is saga – isn’t that what you get paid to do?
timtim says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 09:25thebasharmilesteg says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 09:41
As I posted last week when TGEF returned!
Traynor passing comment on Whyte is the equivalent of Baron Munchausen critiquing Walter Mitty
taxlawplebeian says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 09:32
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donsfan on Monday, October 22, 2012 at 08:43
3 0 Rate This
Brenda says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 08:38
Levein sacking of Scotland maybe!!
—————————————–
… a one man marauding army to keep FTTT off the front page!!!!!!
I’ll get my coat!
———————-
🙂
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/charles-green-reveals-death-threats-following-his-takeover-of-rangers-1-2591797
Agrajag says:
Sunday, October 21, 2012 at 16:42
That’s a thought, and talking of “short selling” I believe you chaps call it.
Assuming Rangers shares sell for £1 (just to make it easy) on day one, how much do people think they will trade at after say 2 or 3 days.
………………………………………………………………………..
While I am no expert I have a little experience of trading options and now and again what looks a dead cert “put” come along and IF “The Rangers” ever come to market this is surely one.
They seem to have already issued I think 22million shares to investors, they are trying to sell a further 20million plus and have also mentioned this being the “FIRST” issue, Green is to be given 10% of shares in the new company which must mean at least 50million shares be issued.
This would give them a supposed market valuation of probably over 50million pounds where Celtic by comparison have a market cap of 33.9million which is a 52 week high.
Now, thats with Champ league football, Spl season ticket pricing, Spl tv money, prize money and strong branding and merchandising deals already in place, PLUS a squad of high value international players.
The Rangers have already brought on most of their revenue for the season apart from some extra gate money(exlcuding thousands of free tickets given out for each home game) no European money for AT LEAST three years, piss poor prize and tv money from SFL, Ibrox still with millions to be spent on it regards Asbestos and general repairs, player pool with little values and running almost certainly at a loss.
Based on just those basic facts I would suggest these shares within days (if not hours) will be in the mid to low teens and lose at least 80% of their value..
Anyone brave enough to deal in the option market and risking say 5000 sterling icould buy 50.000 put options at 10p each with the right to sell at 1.00 each and IF they crashed to 15p they would make over 30 grand for their 5000.
Of course they might not fall or only fall slightly and you lose your 5 grand!
john clarke says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 00:33
No, with respect, they are not mercenaries in the usual meaning of the word.
Some of them do it out of totally blind, unthinking but distorted love for the club and what it stands for..
Others,even the more ‘decent’ guys like Archie, and Roddy, and Britney, are like the submariners in ‘Das Boote’:
============================================
There are more and subtler ways of corrupting the press than dishing out the brown envelopes. Lavish hospitality is one way, once people have been wined and dined by you a few times (and suitably flattered, of course) a relationship is formed, based on gratitude for access to a sophisticated milieu that most of these hacks couldn’t even dream of. Christmas gifts, anyone? The odd side of wild salmon, a bottle or two of 25 year old malt, you know the sort of thing.
I do wonder if our newspapers maintain a hospitality register, to record who got what and when?
Now I’m not oblivious to the tribal loyalty element, the “Das Boot” syndrome you describe. But there is more to it than that, because the blind loyalty here is not so much to the club, as to Sir David Murray personally. These journalists have, on the face of it, no reason whatsoever to owe any loyalty to Murray, quite the opposite in fact for those who are “Rangers Men”, or part of the “Rangers Family” as Green so nicely describes it. The truth is that our press corps, almost to a man, aren’t just simple Rangers Men, in denial at what has happened to the club they love, they are in fact “Murray Men”, and exhibit a blind loyalty to him personally in the face of all and any evidence.
They then carry out their duties as journalists in a way that buries the truth rather than uncovers it, and all in the service of one man’s interests. Can you explain that in terms that do not include the word corruption? This goes to the very heart of what is wrong here in Scotland. Our national press are simply a conduit for press releases emanating from one man, Sir David Murray. No questions that might embarass the great one, no investigation of the facts, just regurgitation.
What hold does Murray have over these people? Don’t tell me it’s emotional, please! And if it isn’t emotional, what is it? I doubt it’s violence, so we are back, one way or another, to money.
Any “normal” owner of Rangers, with a “normal” relationship with the media, would be swinging in the wind right now, the media would have strung him up so high. So what’s the difference with Sir David? Why are the press tiptoeing around him, when they aren’t actively peddling his agenda? Can anyone enlighten me? Because until they do, I think I’ll stick with the obvious.
From the man with the wee white bricks aka PSA. Make of it what you will.
NEW TURKS AND CAICOS LINK TO RANGERS
THE man at the top of the company of spin doctors who practice their dark arts on behalf of Rangers is Jack Irvine.
Jirvie, as he is known in the old inkry trade, is a former editor of the Sun in Scotland and usually bases himself in London where the real movers and shakers are, leaving the Rangers fire fighting to his Media House right hand man, Ramsey Smith.
But my grapevine has been buzzing and the jungle drums have been beating about Jack Irvine’s recent movements.
For right now Jack Irvine is in Dubai, where there are believed to be links to some of the men who own Rangers.
A coincidence?
Maybe!
But where was Irvine before he headed for Dubai?
I can reveal he spent a few days in the Turks and Caicos Islands on business. And a piece in the main edition of the Times of London revealed on Friday, that is where it is believed major players behind Rangers are based.
The Times of London named Margarita Funds Holding Trust as the second biggest investors in Rangers with a 2.6m shareholding, which in monetary terms converts to £1.3m.
And where are Margarita Funds Holdings Trust based?
Well, according to the Times of London, they are based in the Turks and Caicos Islands.
A coincidence?
What? Again?
I’ll let readers make up their own minds.
What I do know is that Jirvie is a very good man at hiding behind smokescreens and the published purpose of his visit to the Turks and Caicos Islands is to help with the campaign against proposals to start charging VAT there.
But has wee Jack been killing two birds with the one stone? Has he been about Rangers business too?
All will be revealed, as it always is.
Just as today I can reveal that the two spin doctors employed by Craig Whyte during his takeover of Rangers, Ian “The Molecatcher” McKerron and Gordon “Jocky” Hay – the guys who told media men to describe Whyte as a billionaire – are now believed to be working on behalf of the SNP’s separatist bid to split the United Kingdom.
Whyte, himself, has been back in the news in the aftermath of his BBC Scotland interview with Chris “Scrote” McLaughlin.
The shyster, trickster conman – Whyte not Scrote – has been claiming that when BDO move in and start the liquidation process of the Oldco, they will find that Whyte still has a holding charge over Rangers three main assets, Ibrox Stadium, the Albion car park and the Milngavie training complex.
These three properties formed part of the sale, for £5.5m, of Rangers to the current consortium by under investigation administrators, Duff and Phelps.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave…..etc…….
The Whyte-David Murray-Duff and Phelps-saga still has a long way to travel. And it is a twisting road it will meander along with an ending which, I believe, will leave somebody hearing the gates at the Bar L clank shut behind them.
I would love Celtic to beat Barca ( I know I know ) and stranger things have happened 🙂 do you think the msm are ‘hoping’ Celtic get a good result, that way they can fill the front and back pages with this ‘exclusive’ story, hide the FTT news and it also saves them the hassle of sacking Levein 😉
A Simple Appeal,
Dear all , I (a simple engineer) have enjoyed the education that i have received both here
and before on RTC from all the Legal Eagles & the Beancounters that have contributed so
well during this long drawn out affair, even if a lot of the info went over my head.
May i ask that when the FTT Result is published , can some kind sole translate the
important parts into Laymans Terms Please. I am sure that there are many more people
following this site that would greatly appreciate this. (including some members of the press)
Thankyou All.
In justice we trust.
rustyploughbhoy says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 11:01
Perhaps RTC will return with a guest blog explaining the detail and anonymised report!
Rangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
The findings will leave no doubt that RFC employed an illegal tax scheme to pay players & staff. Anonymised report will need “translation”
20 Octchris shields@chrisshields10
@rangerstaxcase Know anyone who speaks fluent Anonymise?! lolz
20 OctRangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
@chrisshields10 I am taking a Berlitz immersive learning class. 😉
timtim says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 09:25
6 7 i
Where do you start with this buffoon?
—————————————————-
How about just addressing the points where he gets something right/tells the truth.
Save you a hell of a lot of time. 🙂
Am I not correct that one of the conditions to grant a licence to Sevco by the SFA was that as soon as the FTT decision was made known to them that they are required to pass a copy immediately to the SFA. Sometimes my memory plays tricks but I am pretty sure that was in there.
If correct, I wonder if anyone from our MSM has thought fit to ask CO if he’s got it yet?
RTC and Britney tweeting at each other,
Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
For those in doubt: the SFA have legal contingencies in place if any substantial Charles Green/Craig Whyte link emerges at Rangers.
Expand
4m Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@GrahamSpiers Now you have my interest. I don’t suppose you can share details & grounds for suspicion?
wjohnston1 says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 11:34
I may have missed something, but why would Sevco be issued with a copy of the determination?
tilhotdogsbark says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 11:42
wjohnston1 says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 11:34
I may have missed something, but why would Sevco be issued with a copy of the determination?
———————————————-
They wouldn’t be. Of course D&P would probably keep CG in the loop!
Paulsatim
Graham Spiers – “For those in doubt, the SFA have legal contingencies in place if any substantial Charles Green/Craig Whyte link emerges at Rangers.”
————————————————-
I have no doubt they have such contingencies.
Like they did when Sevco didnt have three years of accounts, and were rightly excluded from Europe, but incredibly managed to get into Scottish football.
Like when they were illegaly granted a licence to play in Scottish football.
Like when they were allowed to play unregistered players.
Like when they were granted a licence to play in Europe last year.
Of course the SFA have contingency plans, one of which does not include kicking the club out of football for a number of years as they deserve.
None of us are in any doubt that there are contingency plans, Graham, so dont worry your wee head about it.
But for us ‘doubters’ maybe you could track down Walter or Mr Sounness and ask them about EBTs. Or maybe you could ask Campbell Ogilvie what on earth justifies his position at the SFA, outwith making contingency plans to help Sevco, of course.
And heres Mr Charles retraction. The bears are really nice people – now I need their money.
Monday, 22 October 2012 11:50 Green Clarifies Death Threat Comments
Written by Rangers Football Club
Rangers Chief Executive Charles Green has issued the following statement today.
“In remarks attributed to me in today’s Scottish Sun I was trying to get across how far we have travelled together since the dark days of the Club being put into administration and subsequent liquidation of the old company.
“No words can express the gratitude I feel towards Rangers fans at the way they have stood by the Club in one of its darkest hours.
“They have risen to the challenge of helping rebuild this great institution and have won widespread admiration across the world for their backing of Rangers.
“Not a day goes by without foreign TV stations or journalists telling me how amazed they are by the response of fans as they continue to back the Club in huge numbers.
“The reality is there were a few occasions in the very early days where I was clearly not the flavour of the month among some sections of the fanbase and I was subject to taunts and abuse.
“However, that was short-lived and the fans are now behind me and the board and we have all moved on together.
“I just want to make it clear that I believe Rangers fans are the best in the world and that is my heart felt position. I appreciate the article in today’s Sun has upset some supporters and for that I am truly sorry. As I stated, I was merely trying to illustrate how far we have all come together.”
doontheslope says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 12:15
also the use of the word “substantial”, that kind of leaves it open to interpretation, too!
Ianagain
I wonder what caused Charles Green to retract his statement in the Sun that he had received death threats from Rangers fans?
Do you think he received death threats from Rangers fans to change his story?
He really doesnt know Rangers history does he? Otherwise, he would have simply blamed Chelsea fans.
I believe that there are 2 Sevco companies . One was Sevco 888 or something like that who bought certain assets and changed their name to The Rangers Football Club. The other is Sevco Scotland ( I believe) who hold all the rest.
I might be wrong in this, however I remain of the opinion that there is a requirement to lodge a copy with the SFA.
Someone more acquainted with the legalities could possibly explain.
In a logic mood today – Who’s up this week? Ah Yes CW – What did he do then? Let’s see now;
Take-over Billionaire who bought RFC for £1 + 18m debt.
What’s this got to do with the FTT I hear you say? – Well, If the FTT [74m] goes against them and;
Well then if you add up the, BTC, the WTC, other club debts at the time say [5m?] and the 18m Debt
Then we need to put the `record` straight. CW bought RFC for £1 + over – 100m – in debt
Why does the FTT matter then? – According to our good friend jabber HMRC won’t see a penny and its only of use to them as a test case – and so on and so forth…………………. – But read on:-
The value of the club was estimated on p/e from previous at 12-18m range intact – borne out by BM. The value of the club if there was a pre-destined administration [liquidation] would be less than that – let’s say 50% as the newco albeit debt free would require extra funding to rebuild. [That fits]
So why `buy` 100m of debt – if the residual value is say a fraction of an 18m valuation intact? So the FTT result if it goes against them – it indicates that over 100m debt was `bought` and could be a factor of say 10 fold higher than the residual value post administration. Certainly a multiple. So logically, it makes no sense to expend more than say 10m total at the most for the – entire – TO deal. But 20.3m was put into an account? Doesn’t look right does it? Let’s fill this out.
The seller parties extracted themselves from the BTC, the WTC, other club debts [10m?] and an 18m bank debt plus received about another 2m gained from the assignment over and above the 18m. in return to the princely sum of £1, 85% shareholding that came with an assets covenant / security. Adding up the bits and pieces that’s over 100m of debt `sold` for a £1 and got paid 2m for the privilege!
So logically, if any of the funding parties, believed there was something `unsavoury` between the seller and the buyer parties that set this all up to expend significantly more in the take-over than the net value of the business was actually worth – and to clear the seller parties of over 100m combined debts at the time of the take-over – they might just quibble and ask the CO for a wee looksee investigation.
Now how could they prove that? Well proof eh? – Well yes they did jointly agree the take-over contracts including some debt and the values expected to be invested – What’s missing is a [viable credible] Business Plan at the Take-Over.
Unless, I`d say – they can produce a viable business plan that took on that level of debt [100m+] and was able to come through without loss to the funding parties – they could – all of them – be in the soup.
FTT might be doing more than two `birds` with one stone so to speak – So there you go [logically 😉 ]
paulsatim says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 11:40
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RTC and Britney tweeting at each other,
Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
For those in doubt: the SFA have legal contingencies in place if any substantial Charles Green/Craig Whyte link emerges at Rangers.
Expand
4m Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@GrahamSpiers Now you have my interest. I don’t suppose you can share details & grounds for suspicion?
——————————————-
Why would the SFA have taken legal steps in that direction. Do they have reason to suspect that there is phoenix trading going on, and possibly even contrived insolvency.
If they have actually gone to the lengths of “legal contingencies” would they not be obliged to inform the relevant authorities of those suspicions. Surely they wouldn’t have taken such steps without good reason.
Can Graham confirm if HMRC and Strathclyde Police have been informed.
Graham Spiers @GrahamSpiers
For those in doubt: the SFA have legal contingencies in place if any substantial Charles Green/Craig Whyte link emerges at Rangers
Bigger question – why would the SFA confer fit and proper person status on CG, if there is a suspicion that a link/relationship between those parties exists?
Long Time Lurker says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 13:04
=============================
If Craig Whyte has been deemed “not fit and proper” and he has now claimed he as much as went out and found his own succesor then it does beg the question.
Jabba is a truly pathetic failure of a man. There is no point going through his article and picking up his inaccuracies regards murry’s almost total blame for rfc’s liquidation, we have been through it all before and anyone with even a loose grip on the facts realise that murray’s diasterous reign has led us to where we are now.
You can blame whyte all you want jimbo, its only you and murray’s other lickspittle pets that believe that absurd position. The ftt will not even mention craig whytes name, he wasn’t there for any of the decade long tax evasion scam, instead the names ( or numbers ) will refer to murray x2, bain, mcclelland, ogilvie, smithx2 and johnston. These ( among others ) are the men who where in charge and who attempted the cover up and miraculous rebirth of a club who lied, cheated and stole from every uk citizen.
How will you blame whyte for the stripping of titles when he was not even there during the illegal registering of players that led to the stripping of titles, and would have seen the club liquidated without the need for whytes poor train driver skills.
Sorry jabba, whyte gave us all a laugh but we saw through the plan and we all know murray is 100% to blame for the tax liability, the cheating and subsequent stripping of titles and the liquidation of rangers football club.
Your just an irrelevant fool.
Agrajag says
The post before your’s gives some indication of why,but I doubt any legal steps would lead to anything other than the gallows for all involved ,there has been a certain fellow membership that without being involved in any skullduggery have an oath to assist fellow members in any way required ,nothing wrong with this you might say, but silence can also be associated with association if proved in a criminal court and this is what is now leaking out of all the cracks appearing too many know they are implicated and are looking for a way to dissasociate from the main pack ,a squeaky bum will have a new meaning when they are all locked up in the same HMPS abode.
“Remarks attributed to me”? What a coward.
Here we go again with the ….” it’s everybody’s fault {bar my pal Murray’s}. Doesn’t it just make you want to cry?
Can you imagine his reaction had CW put RFC straight into administration on buying the club from DM as suggested?
Strange that he concedes to CW knowing that an “insolvency event” was inevitable and yet he himself, the all knowing; never bothered to inform his audience of it at the time or at any time since!!
And still he skips over the preceding years’ mismanagement
Had CW not entered the scene from stage left who on earth would he have had to blame then for all the wrongdoings?
And as for this touching quote…….
As Hannibal Lecter said to Clarice in the Silence of the Lambs,
Look deep with YOUR SELF……
“He really is out of touch. Some might say delusional.
But there he was, this baffling, complex but ultimately unreliable little man still trying to convince the world he didn’t do much wrong.
It wasn’t his fault, he seemed to be saying. He was doomed to failure with Rangers because of the deeds of others before him”…….
Obviously then man’s therapy lessons on self awareness are working – I wonder who is paying for them??????
Would the buyer of Woolworths assets be legally obliged to keep the purchaser informed of any subsequent debts?
Nope
So why should D&P behave any differently?
Surely they would only advise Green about the FTT ruling if it was specifically written into the RFC Sale Agreement ?
And thats the kind of detail a lawyer might forget to include
Which would leave Green floundering for a reason why the FTT judgement has anything to do with Sevco
Unless of course he is still MD of deid club ?
wee off topic question regards Hearts.
does anyone know if they have been paid the instalments due for Wallace and did they get paid for Templeton?
the hearts situation has me flummoxed right now….can’t see Vlad remaining silent if they were being punished for not paying players due to non payment of monies from another SFA member – or, for that matter, the SPL Tv money either
neepheid says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 10:58
—-
‘…But there is more to it than that, because the blind loyalty here is not so much to the club, as to Sir David Murray personally. ….. so we are back, one way or another, to money.’
—–
There may indeed , be the ordinary corruption ( favours, brown envelopes, tasty meals etc).
I think I was implying a deeper level of ‘ideological’ corruption, a mind-set shared by many in a secret organisation which traditionally numbers senior police officers, politicians , broadcasters and football administrators and such like in its ranks, bound together by oath (seriously taken by them.
The truly remarkable level of support for SDM, and now for CG , being given by the MSM is otherwise inexplicable.
ianagain says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 12:22
11 0 Rate This
And heres Mr Charles retraction. The bears are really nice people – now I need their money.
Monday, 22 October 2012 11:50 Green Clarifies Death Threat Comments
Written by Rangers Football Club
Rangers Chief Executive Charles Green has issued the following statement today.
“In remarks attributed to me in today’s Scottish Sun I was trying to get across how far we have travelled together since the dark days of the Club being put into administration and subsequent liquidation of the old company.
“No words can express the gratitude I feel towards Rangers fans at the way they have stood by the Club in one of its darkest hours.
“They have risen to the challenge of helping rebuild this great institution and have won widespread admiration across the world for their backing of Rangers.
“Not a day goes by without foreign TV stations or journalists telling me how amazed they are by the response of fans as they continue to back the Club in huge numbers.
“The reality is there were a few occasions in the very early days where I was clearly not the flavour of the month among some sections of the fanbase and I was subject to taunts and abuse.
“However, that was short-lived and the fans are now behind me and the board and we have all moved on together.
“I just want to make it clear that I believe Rangers fans are the best in the world and that is my heart felt position. I appreciate the article in today’s Sun has upset some supporters and for that I am truly sorry. As I stated, I was merely trying to illustrate how far we have all come together.”
___________________________________________________________________________
Charlie had to dig deep into the heart of his wallet to produce such lovely sentiments.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 14:16
wee off topic question regards Hearts.
———————————————————
Not off topic at all. The name of the site is The Scottish Football Monitor after all. Last I looked Hearts were a Scottish club.
Your points are valid! If Vlad can prove that delayed payments were due to non payment of monies from SPL then how can SPL punish them. Of course the reason for delayed TV monies etc was in part due to the faffing about in the summer with no governing body willing to make an executive decision!
But have Hearts not been here before?
doonthesloop@12.39
Startlingly that is the gist of it. Green says he has been threatened, hence outrage and death threats issued for mentioning the death threats! Only in Scottish Football (or North Korea),
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 14:39
1 0 Rate This
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 14:16
wee off topic question regards Hearts.
———————————————————
But have Hearts not been here before?
————————————————————
they have……but i don’t see why they should be….season ticket and transfer money in, like most clubs, they should have cash in the bank just now.
So why not paying wages? or continually paying them late? it’s not like Vlad doesn’t have the money
so who is he trying to send a signal too? the players? Hasn’t he managed to offload a lot of them and cut the bills? The SFA/SPL? if so, why no verbal lambast of the “mafia” running the game
Why has vlad been so quiet when it looks like all the evidence he needed of corruption in the game was laid out before him?
rab says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 13:19
Excellent point rab, and one which cannot be made too loudly or too often because, as many have pointed out, the push to rewrite history is strong. Anyone who peddles the myth that CW destroyed Rangers is, as you clearly put it, a lickspittle. I think one of the essential roles of this blog and all the other bampot outlets is to act as a bulwark against such outrageous revisionism. Interestingly, a lot of people on RM get it too – they know that Murray destroyed their club – but there’s a strong push over there to establish a new orthodoxy of it all having been Craigie’s fault which, thankfully, is the kind of pish that gets shot down here by good people like yourself. Cheers!
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 14:48
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 14:39
1 0 Rate This
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 14:16
wee off topic question regards Hearts.
———————————————————
But have Hearts not been here before?
————————————————————
they have……but i don’t see why they should be….season ticket and transfer money in, like most clubs, they should have cash in the bank just now.
So why not paying wages? or continually paying them late? it’s not like Vlad doesn’t have the money
so who is he trying to send a signal too? the players? Hasn’t he managed to offload a lot of them and cut the bills? The SFA/SPL? if so, why no verbal lambast of the “mafia” running the game
Why has vlad been so quiet when it looks like all the evidence he needed of corruption in the game was laid out before him?
————————————————————————
OK! Dont know much about how Hearts “Holding Company” is structured so if the Jambos out there could help,
Is it the case that,a bit like Gretna was ,if the main man Vlad isnt around to sign cheques or authorise payments it doesent happen. Or are they suffering cash flow issues! Can?Would Vlad bail them out or would he just bail?
“No words can express the gratitude I feel towards Rangers fans at the way they have stood by the club in one of its darkest hours.
“They have risen to the challenge of helping rebuild this great institution and have won widespread admiration across the world for their backing of Rangers.”
——
“Widespread admiration across the world”?
Really?
angus1983 says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 15:53
0 0 Rate This
“No words can express the gratitude I feel towards Rangers fans at the way they have stood by the club in one of its darkest hours.
“They have risen to the challenge of helping rebuild this great institution and have won widespread admiration across the world for their backing of Rangers.”
——
“Widespread admiration across the world”?
Really?
———————————————————————————————————————–
Who from around the world admires fans who threaten their owner with death threats?
Greens a bit like a very forgetfull snakecharmer whos carrying around a bag of Cobras and keeps absent mindedly poking the bag and sticking his head in.
It will end in tears.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Credit where it is due, Bill McMurdo finally writes something worth reading. His interview with Whyte is quite good. http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2012/10/craig-whyte-speaks-to-fans.html …
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says: Monday, October 22, 2012 at 15:36
OK! Dont know much about how Hearts “Holding Company” is structured so if the Jambos out there could help,
Is it the case that,a bit like Gretna was ,if the main man Vlad isnt around to sign cheques or authorise payments it doesent happen. Or are they suffering cash flow issues! Can?Would Vlad bail them out or would he just bail?
============================
The controlling interest in Hearts is held by Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG) of which Vlad and his wife are effectively owners. However, in their last Annual Return to Companies House in Sep 2011, it showed that 15% of Hearts was owned by a Swiss registered company, Quantum Holdings SA. There is a link to Hearts from Quantum as one of Hearts directors, Julia Goncaruk, was formerly a director there.
Hearts as everyone knows has been running with huge losses for years, including pre Vlad years. Although small profits have been reported in the last two years, they have only been achieved by significant sums being written off by Vlad as “Forgiveness of Debt”. Indeed in Vlad’s time he has written off over £40M. That is the extent of Hearts financial doping, as the debt position is currently similar to that when Vlad took over.
All big income items are funnelled to Lithuania, with day to day running costs met from match day sales and the like. When the money runs out the board has to request funds from Lithuania to cover any shortfall. If the funds are not forthcoming (or not paid in full) then bills don’t get paid, e.g. some wages.
I’m pretty sure that Vlad is engaged in some sort of brinkmanship with the SPL and SFA given his previous record. Generally in such conflicts there is only one loser and it tends to be the club.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 16:07
Interesting article, and ties in with the interview last week. Whyte is an opportunitist spiv like Green, lets not pretend otherwise. However, everything he said makes sense. The biggest accusation against him was lack of honesty and clarity. However, as he rightly says, if you are trying to avoid administration the last thing you do is talk about money. Once it is out there that Administration is inevitable you might as well get it done. Administration in October would have meant liquidation before the end of the season. Effectively the end of Rangers. His legacy is that Rangers still exist in a form.
So to all those Rangers fans that still blame Craig Whyte, stop talking pi$h. Blame SDM, blame the old board, blame the lapdog media, and have a good look at yourself in the mirror while you are at it.
Is RTC being sarcastic when he tweets: “Credit where it is due, Bill McMurdo finally writes something worth reading. His interview with Whyte is quite good”?
So, let’s get this right. McMurdo tells TRFC supporters that Craigie has now decided to tell the unvarnished truth. It is so refreshing to learn that Whyte is prepared to open his heart to the Ibrox faithful – or is he?
McMurdo asked Whyte if he had any business dealings with David Murray prior to the takeover of Rangers. Whyte was supposedly forthright in his response. “I met him for the first time at his house in Antibes in 2010.” The obvious follow up question should have been, “And what was the reason for you being in his house?” I wonder why this important aspect was not expanded on by Whyte or pursued by McMurdo?
Whyte states that he was first introduced to Green at the beginning of May and he subsequently introduced Green to Paul Clark in London. Earlier this month Sir Charles informed the nation that he had been involved with Sevco since February and not May, as Whyte claims. Surely the Motherwell mogul is not trying to dupe this intrepid interrogator?
McMurdo also writes that Whyte was not so forthcoming when asked if he had any relationship in an investment capacity with the present Rangers regime, either through a front or investment vehicle. He was also equally tight-lipped about persistent rumours he had helped procure a loan to fund Charles Green consortium’s takeover at Ibrox. Again, these are crucial factors in the Sevco saga. Why won’t Whyte reveal all and put the fans’ minds at ease. After all, the poor bears are about to part with their hard earned in a few weeks. I would hate them to discover afterwards that Craig and Charlie were a double act all along.
An odd couple of tweets from the SFA out of the blue
Scottish FA@Scottish_FA
1/2 To clarify, no licence was granted in April as club didn’t meet criteria for 2012/13.
Scottish FA@Scottish_FA
2/2 New company will have to provide 3 years audited accounts for club to be eligible for future UEFA competitions
I don’t know what these were in response to.
Tweets from SFA in the last few minutes:
Scottish FA@Scottish_FA
1/2 To clarify, no licence was granted in April as club didn’t meet criteria for 2012/13.
2/2 New company will have to provide 3 years audited accounts for club to be eligible for future UEFA competitions
Anybody clear on why this is coming out at this precise time? It’s in reply to a fairly anodyne enquiry on Sunday.
bawsbustedanatha says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 16:07
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Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Credit where it is due, Bill McMurdo finally writes something worth reading. His interview with Whyte is quite good. http://www.thecoplandroad.org/2012/10/craig-whyte-speaks-to-fans.html …
———
If those are verbatim quotes then that is a scoop of an interview. Very, very revealing. So the going out to procure a buyer was in fact a reaction to the tardiness of D&P! I distinctly remember that he did say at the very beginning that he would, one day, be seen as the man who saved Rangers. You get the impression though, that his candid admissions may be giving ammunition to those who seek an unwinding. Is he trying to sabotage something?
This bit is more or less an admission of the plan:
“I asked Whyte directly what went wrong with the process of administration. If he intended to put Rangers through a quick CVA and have the club handed back cleansed of toxic debt, what happened to waylay this plan? Was it unprecedented media interest, reaction of fans or any other factor? Was he betrayed by anyone?
Again, he was forthright in his response:
“It was a combination of those factors but mainly because Duff & Phelps didn’t stick to what they agreed which was a quick administration process at a fixed fee which would have delivered it back to me minus the tax liability.” “
Scottish FA@Scottish_FA
In relation to 2011/12, at time licence was granted tax bill was not overdue.
Hearts have been reprimanded and warned with regard to its future conduct after admitting guilt over failure to pay players on time on Sept 🙂
They have also been cited because of late payments in October, so I assume will face further sanctions at the next meeting. 🙁
easyJambo says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 16:54
Hearts have been reprimanded and warned with regard to its future conduct after admitting guilt over failure to pay players on time on Sept 🙂
They have also been cited because of late payments in October, so I assume will face further sanctions at the next meeting. 🙁
===========================================================
At last another club gets punished instead of just the same one all the time. Nice one Donkeycaster.
Tommy says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 16:40
3 0 Rate This
Whyte states that he was first introduced to Green at the beginning of May and he subsequently introduced Green to Paul Clark in London. Earlier this month Sir Charles informed the nation that he had been involved with Sevco since February and not May, as Whyte claims. Surely the Motherwell mogul is not trying to dupe this intrepid interrogator?
————-
Is that necessarily a lie? It may merely have been the first face-to-face meeting. Don’t people like that deal in half-truths and plausible deniability? It may have been a Whyte lie …
I’ll get my coat.
easyJambo says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 16:23
Cheers
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Who was able to add about £3m to their billing by pretending a CVA was possible rather than a quick pre-pack?
9m Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@GlasgowsGreen D&P went far beyond that- telling lots of hacks that HMRC told them that it was all looking good for a CVA. It was a lie
==================================
Interesting tweets by RTC.
Rather than Duff & Duffer simply being incompetent / forever missing deadlines etc…, suggestions now are something altogether quite different !
Still lying…
“I met him for the first time at his house in Antibes in 2010,”
So TGEF has met (-S) DM in many other places but
..met him for the first time at his house in Antibes in 2010… see what he did there..?
Eh?
_
This bit is more or less an admission of the plan:
“I asked Whyte directly what went wrong with the process of administration. If he intended to put Rangers through a quick CVA and have the club handed back cleansed of toxic debt, what happened to waylay this plan? Was it unprecedented media interest, reaction of fans or any other factor? Was he betrayed by anyone?
Again, he was forthright in his response:
“It was a combination of those factors but mainly because Duff & Phelps didn’t stick to what they agreed which was a quick administration process at a fixed fee which would have delivered it back to me minus the tax liability.”
_______
Can someone explain the quick administration?
First you need to be insolvent and next you need a CVA which has always been a planted story from the beginning [and still is] Even if predisposed to grant a CVA how could this be economic – that`s 5-10m a year just in interest and charges – it’s nonsense. In fact deliberate calculating nonsense.
This was always going to a newco and liquidation – and they knew it – and they planned said outcome for a successor entity. How could there be a short administration to clear the BTC and hand it back to CW? They needed a new buyer for a newco and that needed time to find one.
The nonsense spin just goes on and on
Bogsdollox at 17.04
Hearts are the only club that has been punished ,anything that another club is going through is the result consequences.
For Green to have been involved with Sevco in February he would have to have been introduced to Paul Clark by February at the latest .If Whyte introduced Green to Paul Clark in May then either Green or Whyte is lying,since both have a track record of telling porkies its difficult to know which one is telling the truth .
Of course they both could be telling lies (again)
Danish Pastry says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 17:13
Whyte states that he was first introduced to Green at the beginning of May and he subsequently introduced Green to Paul Clark in London. Earlier this month Sir Charles informed the nation that he had been involved with Sevco since February and not May, as Whyte claims. Surely the Motherwell mogul is not trying to dupe this intrepid interrogator?
————-
Is that necessarily a lie? It may merely have been the first face-to-face meeting. Don’t people like that deal in half-truths and plausible deniability?
…………………………………………………………………………………..
The number of times it has been said by all the players in this saga that “the first time I met, or was introduced to X person”
They never say the FIRST DEALINGS I had with X person, or say when their advisors/partners met X person.
These people have all been involved together for months before Green appeared and they have been having conference meetings/telephone calls/advisors and representatives meetings.
They are a shower of liars, one and all and the only sure way to tell if they are lying is, if their lips are moving then their lying.
My post at17.27 should read “is the result of consequences”.
previouslyknownassnowdog says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 17:31
My post at17.27 should read “is the result of consequences”.
——
Rather than “circumstances”? Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
Any excuse to get another Rush ObRef (obscure reference) shoehorned in, eh? 🙂
I hear Rangers 2012 P.L.C., formerly known as The Rangers Football Club P.L.C. are changing their name to Lance Armstrong FC in preperation for forthcoming events.
Nothing to do with Sevco of course, no problem there.
Surely a quick administration would have involved accepting that a CVA was not possible, and doing a pre-pack administration.
Like a lot of people thought was going to happen.
What happened at the end of the day wasn’t really that different. A new company with the assets of the old one.
The huge difference was the length of time it took, and presumably the fees payable to the administrator. I imagine a pre-pack would have been much quicker and cheaper, is that not the case.
I asked Craig Whyte directly if he had any business dealings with David Murray prior to the takeover of Rangers. The relationship between the two has been the subject of persistent internet rumours..?
TGEF did not answer the question..!!
….McMurdo = epic fail..
Go ask TGEF…Have you or any members of your family/relatives/companies,previously ever been advised by or conducted any business (of any description) past or present with (-S)DM,his representatives/advisors or any of his companies..?
Angus1983 at 1752
Re Rush, With the MBB making a reappearance again mayBe Mr Green should learn to”Never turn your back on a monster.”
Roger Hannah ….SSB ‘Charles Green just tells the truth’ this programme is comedy gold!!!
re Chuckie statement today as I said in an earlier post his wee run round Northern Ireland would have given him an insight into why some of the supporters of his fabulous club may not be so forgiving if it all goes wrong. Squeeky bum time Chuckie 🙂
briggsbhoy says:
Monday, October 22, 2012 at 18:13
1 0 Rate This
re Chuckie statement today as I said in an earlier post his wee run round Northern Ireland would have given him an insight into why some of the supporters of his fabulous club may not be so forgiving if it all goes wrong. Squeeky bum time Chuckie
_____________________________________________________________________
I agree, maybe a wee wake up call. Where else in the world would you apologize to fans of a football club for THEM threatening to kill you. That IMO is a lovely wee family club I bet other clubs fans are dying to welcome them with open arms as they are making friends wherever they go.
And so…we as a country, are dragged once again into new depths of desperation & sadness…
CG actually apologises to the “Peepil ” (who are/were & will be shortly) threatening to kill him..!?