Three Shakes … and a Twist

ByTrisidium

Three Shakes … and a Twist

Guest Post by James Forrest
Those who like to read the techno-thrillers of Tom Clancy will remember well the scene in The Sum of all Fears, when the nuclear bomb explodes in Denver, outside the stadium where the Super Bowl is being played. Clancy handles the moment in two very distinct chapters. The second is a vivid and frightening examination of the explosion’s terrible effects as they are felt, firstly in Denver and then experienced around the world.

Before that, he devotes an entire chapter to the mechanics of the explosion itself. Chapters like this are either what attract readers to Clancy in the first place or turn them off entirely. It is technical, it is complex, and the layman who reads it and fully understands it is indeed a massive geek. Of all the times he has loaded the reader with technical detail, this is probably when he risked most in terms of keeping you interested in the story. Yet it works. The chapter is not long, but nor is it short. And the events in it span not seconds but fractions of a second

It was in that chapter I first learned the term “shake”, so named for the old aphorism “a shake of a lamb’s tail”. A “shake” is a term used in nuclear physics. It represents ten nanoseconds. To grasp fully the size of that, consider that there are a billion nanoseconds in a second. The chemical process involved in a nuclear detonation involves a number of “shakes”, with a chain reaction usually completed in 50.

Clancy’s decision to devote an entire chapter of the book to a few nanoseconds came back to me over and over again during the weeks and months of the Rangers crisis. It became clear to me that, drawn out though the events following administration were, what we were seeing was not the effect of the explosion but the explosion itself. Those months were our nanoseconds. Every day, every revelation, every moment we thought was a separate event, was merely a peek inside the bomb case, at the chemical process of a chain reaction.

I would say the chain reaction was completed on the day HMRC announced they were refusing the CVA proposal. That was the detonation. It’s only now we’re witnessing the explosion, and its effects, and in my view we are still a long way from the end of that process. We have had the initial double flash thermal pulse and we’ve seen some EMP effects, but the real damage is still to come. The shock wave and the fireball have yet to spread, and their cumulative effects could yet annihilate Ibrox and extend as far as Hampden.

Am I making claims of “financial Armageddon”? No, I’m not. I never believed the collapse of Rangers would devastate Scottish football. I thought then, and now, that it was scaremongering nonsense to even suggest it. It didn’t matter to me whether the authorities were spreading those stories because of a deep-seated love of the Ibrox club, or because they had bonuses at stake, or out of their own internal, personal weaknesses. Those stories were inconsistent, based on worst case scenarios which were never likely to materialise, and insulting. The notion that the game in this country amounts to no more than one or two teams is offensive.

I love football. I always have. I’m a Celtic supporter, but my interests in the game extend far beyond my own club. At its best, football is a tremendous unifier of people, from those wonderful stories about Christmas Day in the trenches of World War I to the matches organised every year between Palestinian and Israeli children. The game has the potential for tremendous good. I am proud that my own club’s supporters have honoured the dead of Hillsborough and Ibrox. I am proud they unfurled a banner to the Benfica player Miklos Feher, and invaded Seville and showed that city how to party. I am proud of every moment when the supporters of a club applauded an injured player, or staged a silence to honour an official or competitor at another team. Although there are some who would use this sport in a divisive way, who would hijack it for their own ends, I believe this game can still be an inspiration, and find the best in all of us.

I think what happened during this summer, as the fans of every club in the land made their voices heard, was one of the greatest moments in Scottish football’s recent history. I believe it will have an impact far beyond one season. I think it was special.

My concern, as I’ve said, is that the appalling effects of the detonation at Ibrox are still to be fully realised. I am worried about the impact they could yet have on all of us.

Let me be quite specific about the two things that worry me most. They are to do with the decision to grant Sevco/Rangers a license to play in the Scottish Football League this year.

First, I believe the license was granted without sufficient guarantees being given by Charles Green and others that they would respect the decisions taken by the independent judiciary panel of the SPL in relation to EBTs, and secondly, I am concerned that not enough is known about Green and his financial backers, or plans for Rangers, for the authorities to be satisfied that the club is in good financial health. I don’t believe for one second anyone can allay my fears in these two areas. It is obvious to all that due diligence has not been done, and the entire situation at Rangers/Sevco is still shrouded in doubt, and that anything may yet happen.

The independent panel investigating dual contracts is going to have to make the most momentous decision in the history of the game in the UK. I do not believe what Rangers are accused of has any precedent. We are talking about a decade or more in which the results of every single match might be in doubt. Every single game. The rules were not written to envision such an appalling breach of faith. It would seem almost inevitable that stripping of titles will be the smallest of Charles Green and Ally McCoist’s concerns if this verdict goes against them.

Frankly, I don’t see an alternative to suspending Rangers membership of football in this country for at least two years, with points deductions and monetary fines to follow when the suspension period is done. This is not harsh; in fact it falls far short of the maximum penalty, which is expulsion from the game altogether, and as it is the authorities are going to have to do a damned good job of setting out the reasons why that ultimate sanction is not applied. It will not be enough to say it would damage the game in Scotland to wipe the club away. To allow a decade of malfeasance to pass without that ultimate sanction would create the perception that Rangers is above the law, and I cannot think of anything that would do the game more harm than for any club to be considered too big, or too important, to be subject to the regulations.

With their money on the table, I don’t see any way Charles Green and his cohorts will accept the judgement of the independent panel if it has an impact on their plans to recoup their investments. With the way he’s rallied the Rangers fans behind him recently, by essentially talking about a conspiracy against them, I don’t see how he convinces them to accept sanctions, even if he personally was inclined to do so. He has painted himself into a corner where now, if he wants his money at all, he has to fight, and keep on fighting. Without the written guarantee that the club would accept whatever the panel decides, without recourse to the law, I will be shocked if this matter doesn’t end up in the courts somewhere down the line, because I don’t think for one second he signed up to that particular demand.

I think the SFA backed down on this, the most fundamental matter of them all.

Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.

At an early stage in the Rangers crisis, a couple of people told me they thought the club would not play football for at least a year. I told them of all the possible scenarios that was the most unlikely, because I honestly could see no way back for them once they had gone. There is no precedent I am aware of, anywhere, for a football club taking a “year out” only to return. Certainly, in the context of the Scottish game I didn’t see how it could be done without creating one almighty shambles, or by bending the rules until the elastic snapped.

Yet I’ve since become convinced that it was the correct course of action. The club calling itself Rangers FC is still in a state of flux. The issues still surrounding it are enormous and potentially devastating. There are any number of ways in which the entire edifice could utterly collapse. The liquidators and HMRC could yet challenge the takeover, or the coming share issue. Craig Whyte may yet emerge and take a claim to the courts. The share issue itself could be an utter failure, leaving the club unable to meet annual running costs. All of this, even without the vast effects of the EBT case, which has the potential to wash the whole club away.

Had Rangers been out of the game for a year, these issues could have been properly explored, dealt with and put behind them, and the game as whole.

Of course, it’s just possible that the worst is over. It’s possible that this particular nuclear detonation, like the one is The Sum of All Fears, is an enormous “fizzle”, that the appalling destruction unleashed will not be on the thermonuclear level which could obliterate our hopes of a fresh start, of forward motion for the whole game. It might be that everything at Ibrox is hunky-dory, that this, all I’ve written, is the product of a febrile imagination, on the same level as the financial Armageddon nonsense we spent the summer hearing about.

It may well be, but only if the people who’ve been right all along have suddenly gotten it wrong. The evidence all points to something big, and bad, coming this way.

The smart folks will be hunkering down in their shelters for a while yet.

James is a co-editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, latest issue out 17th October (digital, and free), featuring women’s football

http://en.calameo.com/read/001382993b7dff7feed1b

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,174 Comments so far

paulmac2Posted on8:41 am - Oct 25, 2012


I should add there are other important elements to this…

Names…did they refer to each other by name..thus identifying themselves? by the sounds of it they didn’t as Mark Daly states..a voice recognition expert was used…it is one thing to have an audio recording…it is entirley another to prove who it is that is speaking on the audio…whilst Craig has a distinctive voice Grier does not…

We’ve all heard the off the ball take offs…

Was the permission of the restaurant owner sought and granted to set up this covert audio?

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paulmac2Posted on8:44 am - Oct 25, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:21
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark Daly confirmed it last night on Newsnight…

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paulmac2Posted on8:51 am - Oct 25, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:36
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It’s a possibility…although the links between all parties would indicate this is unlikely..and more to do with money…he would have know very quickly that the set fee of £500k for a quick turnaround wasn’t gonna happen some time ago…so why has he sat on his thumbs till now?

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twopandaPosted on9:02 am - Oct 25, 2012


“Whyte: Yeah. So you knew the structures of the deal. You were dealing with Lloyds.
Grier: Absolutely.”
.
So Grier knew the `structure of the deal` and was dealing `absolutely` with Lloyds [LBG]
.
So did LBG know of the TU 3 year ST deal that financed the take-over and allowed them to get 18m back?
Thought that would be the very first question from our spiv-tastic media. Not appeared yet. Funny that

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saskya1888Posted on9:14 am - Oct 25, 2012


I can’t help but be infuriated by just how much this entire fiasco is going to cost the public purse before it comes to fruition.

All for the benefit of trying to ensure the existence of a thieving, cheating, fraudulent bunch of crooks; otherwise known as “RFC/TRFC”.

I think this is just the start of some fact’s emerging, as everyone involved in this scam is now getting desperate to get as much cash in their own hip pockets, or to prevent anyone else involved in doing so.
Alternatively/inclusively, the train of thought seems to be”..If I’m go down for it then you are all going with me….”

With all the preceding ,current and future court case’s, appeal’s, police investigations, meetings etc; just how far will the power’s that be allow public money to be spent in order to preserve the entity (whatever that is now) formerly know as RFC?

And that is without counting the 100+ million that they have already defrauded the country by.

I for one am am a tad fed up with the whole show, and believe that everyone involved with RFC from the DM day’s TO THE PRESENT have colluded in this scam and am convinced that now is the time to put an end to the entire fiasco.

Rangers Football Club was mismanaged for year’s,as a result they went bust, now they are no more. Sell the assets to pay the creditor’s: It happens in business all the time. Much more prominent businesses have gone down the tubes before.
Don’t allow this bunch of crooks to line their own pockets with even more hard earned taxpayer’s cash.Put an end to it now. Quite simple really .

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saskya1888Posted on9:21 am - Oct 25, 2012


Oh and by the way, let’s now forget to keep our eyes closely on the current regime at iBrox, as they have a habit of throwing a left hook when we are not watching!

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briggsbhoyPosted on9:24 am - Oct 25, 2012


Did you hear Chick last night on beeb radio say that they (MSM) did not come out with the story that CW was a billionaire. His justification for the printing of this bull was the fact that this information came from CW’s PR teams. This statement of course proves that they are guilty of what they have been accussed of on this site and RTC, NOT ASKING THE QUESTiONS, BEING LAZY JOURNALISTS & BEING NO MORE THAN PR PRINTERS. Journalist.. huh – I asked you!

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AgrajagPosted on9:28 am - Oct 25, 2012


twopanda says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 09:02
0 0 i Rate This

===================

For me Lloyds either knew the full details or didn’t, but really wouldn’t have cared either way. Bottom line, someone was willing and able to give them their £18m back. Not money into Rangers, money paid directly to them. So long as it was legal then Lloyds would not have had any issue with it.

At the time they were controlling both MIH and Rangers, at the very least via David Murray. For me their attitude would have been, “just get it done, we are well out of this”. We get our money back before the ship really hits the can.

I’m sure all the Rangers’ fans talks about boycotts etc whilst Lloyds were trying to put the club back onto an even financial footing would have strengthened this position.

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AgrajagPosted on9:37 am - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:51
0 0 i Rate This

briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:36
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It’s a possibility…although the links between all parties would indicate this is unlikely..and more to do with money…he would have know very quickly that the set fee of £500k for a quick turnaround wasn’t gonna happen some time ago…so why has he sat on his thumbs till now?

====================================

I’m sorry, but I still don’t get this.

How can you have a set fee, for a quick turnaround, and a fixed agreed result, in an administration.

The Court appointed administrator goes in, takes total control, assesses the situation and decides on the best way forward. He tries to save the company and make it viable as a going concern. If that is possible, normally through a CVA then he does it. If not, then he forgets about the company and tries to do his best for the creditors. The company becomes an irrelevance.

There could of course be a pre-pack, but that does not get the business back into Craig Whyte’s hands. It also didn’t happen.

Forgive my ignorance, but as I understand it the concept of a quick turnaround administration, with a pre-determined outcome, for a fixed fee simply doesn’t work.

A creditor, sending in a receiver is a different story. Craig Whyte could have told the receiver (as their employer) what he wanted out of the situation. But that didn’t happen. Craig Whyte, the owner, placed the company into administration.

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briggsbhoyPosted on9:40 am - Oct 25, 2012


Paulmac2

Re your response to my comments on CW & TU. As we know it will always be a case of money, everything has got to be about money.

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AllyJamboPosted on10:01 am - Oct 25, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:21

Will that date not need to be changed, I’m sure there’s a pumpkin 🙂 walk scheduled for the 31st? Still, with all the guisers involved in this trick or treat, it must be the perfect date 😉

OK, I’ll get my witch’s cape on 🙂

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ianagainPosted on10:02 am - Oct 25, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/craig-whyte-to-sue-duff-and-phelps-over-claims-they-were-supposed-to-give-rangers-back-to-him-1-2597705

Hotting up – love it more court action.

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stevensanphPosted on10:05 am - Oct 25, 2012


To take the discussion slightly off the Whyte/Green/D&P topic and back to the rest of Scottish Football, I just posted this on my blog re: St.Johnstone and their latest accounts. I also compared them to how the rest of the SPL’s balance sheets shape up which may be of interest to some of the readers here…

http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/how-financially-secure-are-saints/

For the accountants I have generalised a lot of stuff to try and make it understandable for your average joe, so please don’t criticise too much 🙂

Much of the data I took from this fantastic site http://www.duedil.com which gives you free viewing of company accounts without having to pay the quid that companies house charge you 🙂

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forweonlyknowPosted on10:07 am - Oct 25, 2012


The Men who sold the Jerseys … watch out for MD’s mention of the word ‘fraudulent’ at 53 minutes!

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:08 am - Oct 25, 2012


ianagain says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:02
0 0 Rate This
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/craig-whyte-to-sue-duff-and-phelps-over-claims-they-were-supposed-to-give-rangers-back-to-him-1-2597705

Hotting up – love it more court action.

=======================================

that’ll be the same CW who was going to sue Mark Daly, but instead did nothing and then ended up dropping a big story in his lap?

is there anyone in this whole saga who hasn’t threatened to sue or been threated with being sued?

yet nothing has really happened at all – except the ludicrous claim against Colliyer Bristow suggesting if they hadn’t provided proof of funds then the Rangers would have had £25M from another investor. Aye, away and hurl keech at the moon

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Bill1903Posted on10:09 am - Oct 25, 2012


Chuck Green going to be on Keys and Gray on Talksport at noon.
Going to discuss the share offer apparently

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rustyploughbhoyPosted on10:13 am - Oct 25, 2012


Is it just me , or does anyone else feel like they are now peering down
into a very deep, stank lurid Snake Pit full of Vipers and someone has
just tossed a live rat over the edge. ?
.
.
I would never have thought that all this corporate skullduggery
would be such fun.

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MickyMincePosted on10:14 am - Oct 25, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 09:24

Oor Chick also sought provenance of the ‘could Rangers go bust?’ scoop (Chick likes to call it Nodgate). Unhappily for him, Mark Daly was on hand to remind him that there had been significant postings on the internet (not by Chick or Friends of Chick) long before Alastair Johnston’s subtle mime. Chick had the almost-grace to acknowledge Mark’s authority on the matter and merely claimed it was the first time in public (Chick’s version of public that is).

Of all the journalists in this affair, Chick seems to me the most adrift, genuinely a man out of time. Time he retired to his bed with a biography of Scot Symon to keep him company.

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pau1mart1nPosted on10:15 am - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 says:
Was the permission of the restaurant owner sought and granted to set up this covert audio?

it wasnt covert.
CW told Grier they were recording for “the secret billionaire”.

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on10:17 am - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:41

Was the permission of the restaurant owner sought and granted to set up this covert audio?
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

It’s amazing what you can do with a modern mobile ‘phone sitting innocuously on a table. James Bond isn’t in it. The name’s White/Whyte… Craigy Bhoy White/Whyte.

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twopandaPosted on10:17 am - Oct 25, 2012


Agrajag says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 09:37

OK – LBG Happy if it`s all legal – I`ll go with you on all that if so – that`s fine no probs
.
Except there`s a criminal investigation, a judicial review, and multiple court actions in the pipeline.
And, the seller parties at the time of the take-over have in end effect LBG/SDM escaped at least 75m tax liabilities and received their 18m back plus received about 2m in costs for the assignment transaction.

I posted days ago the cumulative cost of this fracas for everyone else is approaching 200m

LBG/SDM are at the heart of this, were monetarily advantaged, everyone else was monetarily disadvantaged, at they like everyone else should be asked to explain themselves – in detail

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:22 am - Oct 25, 2012


“Whyte claims that Duff and Phelps agreed on a £500,000 fee to guide Rangers out of administration before handing the club back to him”

I don’t see how this is possible

A prepack – involves sale of assets to a 3rd party (same directors cannot be the buyers of assets – this is kinda what we had in all but name)

Administrative receiver still results in old co being liquidated after assets are transferred to newco in lieu of floating/fixed charge – this route would essentially see us where we are right now (no SPL/UEFA licence for newco, transfer of SFA licence, SLF3, players not TUPE’ing over etc) but with CW owning a newco instead of Charles Green. (can’t remember if a newco following from an administrative receiver can be viewed as a phoenix company – anyone know?)

anyway, it’s thrown a cat amongst the pigeons

one thing that interests me is there is already a theme about how CW’s latest revelations might affect THE (Sevco SFL3) Rangers….and that theme is (unsurprisingly) that it won’t

That seems a brave and maybe even Media House driven agenda to at least ensure the bears are kept onside for the share issue.

If LH views a serious conflict and complicity in some form of administrative scam, given the unusual admin process we went through and the links to Green being involved from back in feb and to Whyte bringing him in – then I wouldn’t be too surprised if LH decided to remove D&P and unwind all of their transactions and hand the old co to a new, clean administrator.

CG would get his £5.5M back (or is it 2.75M?) and the assets would be sold.

This would kill Sevco rangers

So, CG better hope LH doesn’t see him as being complicit, if he does, Sevco are dead – there is no way he would spare them in this fraud.

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ordinaryfanPosted on10:23 am - Oct 25, 2012


M8dreamer@05.04

The MSM have been stunned by the Whyte Knight’s revelations and are trying to get their bearings. The fact that Whyte has recorded conversations will have had the likes of Jabba up all night sweating and desperately trying to remember what he has said in the company of Whyte. They have been blind sided, the truth does that to the MSM in Scotland because they are so used to towing the party line and regurgitating propaganda for the likes of Jack Irvine.

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AllyJamboPosted on10:25 am - Oct 25, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 09:24
12 0 i
Rate This

Did you hear Chick last night on beeb radio say that they (MSM) did not come out with the story that CW was a billionaire. His justification for the printing of this bull was the fact that this information came from CW’s PR teams. This statement of course proves that they are guilty of what they have been accussed of on this site and RTC, NOT ASKING THE QUESTiONS, BEING LAZY JOURNALISTS & BEING NO MORE THAN PR PRINTERS. Journalist.. huh – I asked you!
______________________________________________________

They (the MSM) still haven’t got it! They are part of the problem, they’ve probably played a bigger role, for a longer time, than most of the spivs involved in this farce. They were around even before Murray, creating, unintentionally, the media conditions necessary for people like Murray, Whyte, Green etc to believe they could get away with it. They certainly gave Murray the undeserved positive spin that enabled him to dupe the likes of Gavin Masterton at BoS, as well as the supporters of RFC. They no doubt, too, gave him the confidence to believe he was untouchable, and would get away with his EBT scheme, and anything else he wanted. They’ve hyped Whyte and Green and will go on hyping whoever comes in next without once checking up on any PR blurb they’re handed out. And now, having been so defensive/supportive of D&P, they’ll no doubt be huddled round their respective editors’ desks looking for suggestions of ‘How do we cover this?’ The silence will be deafening!

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bawsbustedanathaPosted on10:31 am - Oct 25, 2012


ianagain says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:02

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-takeover-duff-phelps-threaten-legal-action-against-bbc-1-2313714

This was on there too!
Do you think the BBC will now sue D & P???

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bawsbustedanathaPosted on10:37 am - Oct 25, 2012


allyjambo says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:25

They (the MSM) still haven’t got it! They are part of the problem, they’ve probably played a bigger role, for a longer time, than most of the spivs involved in this farce.

And, hence the reason why RTC started the blog….

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Charlie BrownPosted on10:37 am - Oct 25, 2012


We joked on here (RTC?) before that this would end up like Dickens ficticious court case of Jarndyce v Jarndyce

From the first chapter:

Jarndyce v Jarndyce drones on. This scarecrow of a suit has, in course of time, become so complicated that no man alive knows what it means. The parties to it understand it least, but it has been observed that no two Chancery lawyers can talk about it for five minutes without coming to a total disagreement as to all the premises. Innumerable children have been born into the cause; innumerable old people have died out of it. Scores of persons have deliriously found themselves made parties in Jarndyce v Jarndyce without knowing how or why…………………………

The ending of the case reduces the whole court to fits of laughter. From Chapter 65:

We asked a gentleman by us if he knew what cause was on. He told us Jarndyce v Jarndyce. We asked him if he knew what was doing in it. He said really, no he did not, nobody ever did, but as well as he could make out, it was over. Over for the day? we asked him. No, he said, over for good. Over for good! When we heard this unaccountable answer, we looked at one another quite lost in amazement. Could it be possible that the will had set things right at last and that Richard and Ada were going to be rich? It seemed too good to be true. Alas it was! Our suspense was short, for a break-up soon took place in the crowd, and the people came streaming out looking flushed and hot and bringing a quantity of bad air with them. Still they were all exceedingly amused and were more like people coming out from a farce or a juggler than from a court of justice. We stood aside, watching for any countenance we knew, and presently great bundles of paper began to be carried out–bundles in bags, bundles too large to be got into any bags, immense masses of papers of all shapes and no shapes, which the bearers staggered under, and threw down for the time being, anyhow, on the Hall pavement, while they went back to bring out more. Even these clerks were laughing. We glanced at the papers, and seeing Jarndyce v Jarndyce everywhere, asked an official-looking person who was standing in the midst of them whether the cause was over. Yes, he said, it was all up with it at last, and burst out laughing too.

“Mr. Kenge,” said Allan, appearing enlightened all in a moment. “Excuse me, our time presses. Do I understand that the whole estate is found to have been absorbed in costs?” “Hem! I believe so,” returned Mr. Kenge. “Mr. Vholes, what do YOU say?” “I believe so,” said Mr. Vholes. “And that thus the suit lapses and melts away?” “Probably,” returned Mr. Kenge. “Mr. Vholes?” “Probably,” said Mr. Vholes.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:38 am - Oct 25, 2012


Jabba today

————————–
REMEMBER when the taxman was threatening to stop Duff and Phelps being appointed as Rangers administrators?

Back then, I’m told, Craig Whyte was gripped by such panic that he was almost clinging to the table in fright. That may have been an indication of how close he was to the firm – or a senior partner – he is now frantically trying to take down with him.

Whyte and David Grier, the Duff and Phelps partner at whom he is now slinging mud, worked together on Whyte’s original takeover of Rangers.

Is it significant that Grier, as the tape Whyte has now produced suggests, may have known all along about the Ticketus deal, a deal originally exposed by the Record, which saw £25million of season ticket money mortgaged off?

Yes it is, because it is an offence under company law to use a company’s assets to pay for the purchase of it.

Whyte knows that, hence the attempt to drag Duff and Phelps into the mire on a journey which may well end up with Whyte behind bars.

Whyte had an agreement – or so he thought – with Duff and Phelps for a swift, clinical administration that would leave him with the whip hand and a sellable football club.

But he was sold a pup. If senior partners did really know about the Ticketus arrangement all along, then hell mend them.

Whyte, not Grier, was the man who trashed Rangers’ cherished history – but Grier and one or two others should also be questioned.
————————————————————

So, how important is this whole ticketus deal and who did/didn’t know about it?

Jabba says “Yes it is, because it is an offence under company law to use a company’s assets to pay for the purchase of it.”

but, wait, CW bought the club for £1 – did he get that £1 from Ticketus or did he have a pound of his own?

CW used the sale of RFC assets (future season tickets) to pay off a RFC debt (LTSB/HBOS loan)

He was the owner of the club at that point

has he done anything wrong in selling tickets to ticketus to pay off a debt?

Is the issue not that there was a ticketus deal, but that it was D&P (Grier) who set it up and advised green on how to structure his takeover and funding and it was then D&P (the chuckle brothers Clark & Whitehouse) who took on the admin – in what appears to be a clear conflict of interest.

no?

View Comment

wottpiPosted on10:39 am - Oct 25, 2012


Just a wee observation that no one seems to have picked up on.

Duff and Phelps appear to have raised their action against Collier Bristow, Gary Whitey and Rangers FC Group Ltd around 17 April 2012.

Am I correct that Rangers FC Group Ltd are still named in that case?

If so then why would David Grier, a partner in the company suing Whyte’s company, be having cosy meetings with Craig Whyte on 31 May 2012?

I may be wrong but it all seems a bit nicey nice for people who are supposedly in a battle to sort out £25m.

Or maybe thats just the way it is in spivland.

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iceman63Posted on10:46 am - Oct 25, 2012


Hodge is now the key. Whyte and his cohorts had clearly planned a pre pack where the club liquidates is bought by an agreed third party and Whyte cashes in the floating charge – clearing the tax debt and historic debt, giving the third party Rangers at the cost of the floating charge – a Rangers still in the SPL and largely bullet proof and leaving all unsecured creditors shafted. D and P did not deliver on this sufficiently quickly – they held Zeus ( Green is their front) at bay andburned creditors’ cash with phoney manoueverings until the pre-pack could be undertaken. By which point the fans had rebelled the SPL clubs had withdrawn their dupport for the plan and suddenly the whole scam had collapsed. The floating charge vanished and Ticketus were left with a mountain of debt owed to them by Whytey who could not repay it.

The whole enterprise was fostered solely to fleece the creditors- specifically the government through the HMRC – and Whyte’s adding of debt to the HMRC merely added more wounds.

If Hodge allows this monstrosity to pass and liquidates the club leaving SEVCO to walk then he will be party to a systematic and albeit only partially successful conspiracy to rob creditors.

I very much doubt that he will allow this to happen. What happens next?.

Over to people with more knowledge than me. Will the sale be rescinded or will the liquidation be put on hold whilst BDO as administrators unpick the administration and then determine the best interests of creditors?. Will the sale be allowed and creditors then be given leave to sue D and P for Gratuitous alienation ( love that phrase) of the assets?

If Hodge puts the admin through on the nod and liquidates then essentially they will have succeeded; If he calls a halt then who know what chaos will ensue. The IPO will be toast and Rangers may face both companies being liquidated within quick succession – possibly Charlie’s version firast.

Loving it!

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briggsbhoyPosted on10:49 am - Oct 25, 2012


allyjambo says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:25

Not a nice anology but it’s a bit like the JS revelations in that a lot of people seemed to have known what was going on but nobody was brave enough, brave is possibly the wrong word maybe it should be honest, to stick their hand up a few years back and say. This guy may be an icon in the eyes of many, he may have a knighthood, he may be well connected, he may be influential but……………!

View Comment

twopandaPosted on10:50 am - Oct 25, 2012


Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 06:13
Hardly MSM, perhaps borderline media, but classic a Sun headline:
“Craig Whyte: I’ve been Duffed up”
“And the businessman handed The Scottish Sun a dossier of evidence …”
Discomknockeration all round methinks.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4608243/Craig-Whyte-Ive-been-Duffed-up.html

_____________

CW gave the Sun a `Dossier of evidence` – wonder if they bought the tapes `kiss & tell` ?-Blimey!

What is fantastically rich here is medihoose seem out of the loop – don`t seem to be much good on the back foot. First time tested yesterday on their metal by BBCs Mark Daly – and they ducked – D+P media man told them what’s what and took over when the chips were down
A media war? – sort of `second front` so to speak – PR battling to be the purveyors of the `truth` – haha

Dear Santa……….jabber versus the Sun

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AgrajagPosted on10:51 am - Oct 25, 2012


twopanda says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:17
2 0 i
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Agrajag says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 09:37

OK – LBG Happy if it`s all legal – I`ll go with you on all that if so – that`s fine no probs
.
Except there`s a criminal investigation, a judicial review, and multiple court actions in the pipeline.

================================

I take your point, there weren’t at the time though.

Hypothetically – They were told that they could get their £18m back if MIH sold it’s 85% shareholding in Rangers to Wavetower. Bearing in mind that, at the time they owned 24% of MIH, were owed about £18m by Rangers and were owed about £750m by MIH. In addition to awaiting a multi million pound tax appeal in relation to both MIH and Rangers which they would have been caught up in as shareholders and creditors.

So, again hypothetically, a reputable firm of London Solicitors (let’s call them Colin and Bisto) provide proof of funds. The money is in our escrow account, and will be released to you as soon as Wavetower have the 85% of Rangers shares. All above board, the money is there, it will come from us, the solicitors.

Here’s the deal though. MIH sell their shares to Wavetower, for the nominal sum. You then sell your debt to Wavetower for the value of the debt (not even selling debt at a discount, the full value of the debt). You transfer the floating charge with that debt. That clears you from Rangers, and it gets the Rangers problem away from MIH. It’s a win/win for you.

Lloyds would have jumped at it, and given that they did it via Colin and Bisto, and would have their proof of funds etc they will feel they are totally in the clear.

View Comment

twopandaPosted on11:02 am - Oct 25, 2012


Agrajag says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:51

Still don`t see why LBG/SDM should be assumed almost automatically discounted in this
As far as I know neither have made a recent statement – and they should to clear the air

Let them make their case

– if its ok then fine – but nobodies asking at all – almost like a taboo

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:16 am - Oct 25, 2012


http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/legal-framework-the-for-winding-up-of-rangers-footbal-vlu6/

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thebasharmilestegPosted on11:16 am - Oct 25, 2012


It is now clear that there were serious flaws in the administration of old-basket –case FC. Failure to achieve the CVA should have seen the remaining assets of the business sold to the highest bidder, failing that they should have been split up and sold piecemeal. But in effect it seems the assets were sold to the lowest bidder, the worst possible deal for the creditors. Ibrox, Murray Park and Albion car park must be worth more than £5m even at today’s property prices for the locations concerned. Surely the creditors have been badly served by the process? Lord Hodge MUST now rescind the sale to Green to ensure the creditors get some kind of decent return.

If that happens then for me, it would take away the bad taste of new-basket-case FC’s fast track into SFL3.

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paulmac2Posted on11:17 am - Oct 25, 2012


Parson St. Bhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:17
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hear what you are saying Parson…however you are still in a privatly owned property…and if it is indeed a mobile then you are on very questionable ground with regards to recording a converstaion without prior consent or knowledge…

As much as I want this to stand up in court…I have a feeling it will be very difficult…more so if it was indeed a mobile phone..

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paulmac2Posted on11:28 am - Oct 25, 2012


Lets weight this up…

There is an alleged voice recording between CW and Grier…

CW knows that if he is taken to court he may try and use this as evidence…which will be at his own legal cost..

However we know that CW has a pathalogical dislike for using his own money…so what better way to avoid expense than to pass it to the BBC…who he knows will not bury it or discredit it and who can shoulder the cost if it appears in court as part of any BBC evidence…thus making his persuers think twice…and maybe even cause panic on what else maybe lurking as a recording?

Very astute…get it out in the public domain at no cost to him and with the BBC fronting it…

Now he knows the mechanism is working…I’m guessing this could become a cascade..unless someone can make him an offer..

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:35 am - Oct 25, 2012


From CQN:

A gentleman that’s going round Turning the joint upside down
25th October 2012

There’s a gentleman that’s going round
Turning the joint upside down
Stool Pigeon – ha-cha-cha-cha
He’s an old ex-con that’s been away
Now he’s back, no one’s safe

It’s quite likely that David Grier and Craig Whyte had many conversations they didn’t want replayed on BBC Reporting Scotland. Their deal to acquire Rangers from Sir David Murray and Lloyds Banking Group would have required many scenarios to be considered, some of which would certainly be unpalatable. So with this in mind, Grier may have been comfortable discussing strategy with Whyte when the latter recorded their conversation in May this year. They had been in the proverbial trenches together before and at one time would have had a bond of trust.

What frankly beggars belief is that either party would consider this bond to be still in place a month after Duff and Phelps sued Craig Whyte’s company for £25m. It’s even more surprising that Mr Grier and Mr Whyte were on such convivial terms – chatting liberally in a restaurant about such a serious matter – while they were supposed to be on opposite sides of a £25m legal action.

We now know that Rangers administration went miles off track soon after it started. Whyte, as we predicted back in October last year, hoped to present creditors and Scottish football with a fait accompli. Duff and Phelps were to complete the task within days for a fixed fee of a fraction of what they eventually raised.

Instead Duff and Phelps fee increased by a factor of six, Whyte lost control of events and inherited a great deal of litigation, not to mention a police inquiry. Duff and Phelps must now prepare to tell the truth to Lord Hodge next week. There are millions of pounds at play here and anything short of the truth could land them in heaps of trouble.

Credit to Mark Daly and Reporting Scotland for landing the recording. The BBC are taking a pounding this month but this was a stunning item for an evening news bulletin to present.

Craig Whyte, you will remember, threatened to sue Daly last year and managed to convince the hard of thinking that Daly, and the BBC, were victimising Rangers by dishing the dirt on Whyte. Some still adhere to this belief, despite now realising their Messiah was just a naughty boy, it’s a cognitive dissonance thing. Another lesson that football fans are fools for bombast.

After all the talk then they wired him
And he took a walk with his crooked friends
And they joked about the good old days
And he recorded it on a reel of tape
He caught the mug who did in the forgery
And the babe in charge of larceny

We have to wonder what liquidators BDO will make of Duff and Phelps actions when they take over next week. Ha-cha-cha-cha.

View Comment

ordinaryfanPosted on11:36 am - Oct 25, 2012


Jabba: “Whyte, not Grier, was the man who trashed Rangers’ cherished history – but Grier AND ONE OR TWO OTHERS should also be questioned.”
First recognition by Mr Succulent himself that it cannot all be blamed on the Whyte Knight!
It would be interesting to know which one or two people Jabba is referring to.
He won’t say a name though, because when the next conspirator is exposed he will simply point to that feeble comment about one or two others and say “I’ve said it all along! Just look at this article.”
I’ve heard of turning worms, but a turning Slug is a new one.

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TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy)Posted on11:36 am - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:17
============================

It might not matter whether it stands up in court, paul. It’s in the public domain now and the damage has been done. I look forward to further comment from Marty in NY.

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briggsbhoyPosted on11:37 am - Oct 25, 2012


MickyMince says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:14

Chicks reference to Nodgate and I’m the man behind all this being exposed did raise a smile. He’s a hard nose tough talking hack………..not

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chris shields (@chrisshields10)Posted on11:43 am - Oct 25, 2012


Anyone else think that the recording of the conversation between Whyte and Grier is of exceptional high quality.
By that I mean the voices are easily discernable above the background hubub of the restaurant! Would you get this sort of quality from a normal mobile phone voice recorder? Or has Mr Whyte been in receipt of professional assistance?

View Comment

briggsbhoyPosted on11:45 am - Oct 25, 2012


MickyMince, I forgot to add that Talking Mince seems to be words to describe the nonsense and lies these guys come out with. On an aside on that it reminds of the time when approaching the staff canteen I met a colleague on the way down the stairs heading out. I asked “what’s on the menu today? he replied without thinking ” Chilli con Carni, but don’t eat it, it’s mince!” Sums this whole affair up really, doen’t matter how you dress it up, they are all talking mince 🙂

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AllyJamboPosted on11:52 am - Oct 25, 2012


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:49
2 0 i
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allyjambo says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:25

Not a nice anology but it’s a bit like the JS revelations in that a lot of people seemed to have known what was going on but nobody was brave enough, brave is possibly the wrong word maybe it should be honest, to stick their hand up a few years back and say. This guy may be an icon in the eyes of many, he may have a knighthood, he may be well connected, he may be influential but……………!

___________________________________________

Totall agree. In this world of celebrity, where even ‘successfull’ businessmen become celebrities, we only see what they want us to see of them. In a way they become ‘stars’, but unlike film stars or rock stars, they still manage to operate in complete annonimity when it suits their purposes; for what they do, to create their celebrity, is done behind closed doors. And while what the real stars do ‘behind closed doors’ is what the celebrity mad public want to hear or read about, for the business ‘celebrities’ what goes on behind their closed doors is far too boring to be of interest to the general public. As with JS, they use the position of power their celebrity gives them to carry out their own nefarious activities free from public scrutiny, with the people around them too afraid, or too full of self-interest, to speak out. As with JS, who used his immense charitible fund raising skills to create his untouchable aura, I think DM used Rangers to create his own. In both cases they used it to blind the public, the authorities and everyone else, to their true character. Although what we find as unpalatable in these people is completely different from each other, the parts played by the media and PR machines are very similar, the difference being, that now the truth is out there, on the one hand we see the press getting stuck in over JS, on the other we still see Jabba covering for DM!

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angus1983Posted on11:54 am - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac: firstly, the restaurant owner’s permission isn’t required.

Secondly, I don’t believe Grier is going to deny saying those things.

If he was, D&D’s brief statement would’ve said so, rather than pulling the “out of context” line. D&D have more or less admitted that the recording is genuine. They cannot now dispute it as such.

As mentioned previously, it can be admitted as evidence. The defence can try and claim that its use will prejudice the fairness of any trial, but I don’t think that would be accepted.

View Comment

ordinaryfanPosted on11:56 am - Oct 25, 2012


Chris Shields: I expect a decent phone would be good enough, but it wouldn’t take much to get a professional device for pretty cheap. There are plenty of stores that sell surveillance equipment you can just buy over the counter.

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bogsdolloxPosted on11:57 am - Oct 25, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:38t

————————————————————

So, how important is this whole ticketus deal and who did/didn’t know about it?

Jabba says “Yes it is, because it is an offence under company law to use a company’s assets to pay for the purchase of it.”

but, wait, CW bought the club for £1 – did he get that £1 from Ticketus or did he have a pound of his own?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In matters such as this I always ask – “What does the Sale & Purchase Agreement” say. Can someone post a link and I will read it and see if I can help answer the question.

View Comment

mickleenPosted on12:04 pm - Oct 25, 2012


“What does the Sale & Purchase Agreement say?”
Its all here

http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/02/14/amateur-humiliates-mainstream-media/

View Comment

ExiledCeltPosted on12:05 pm - Oct 25, 2012


chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:

Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:43

Anyone else think that the recording of the conversation between Whyte and Grier is of exceptional high quality.

By that I mean the voices are easily discernable above the background hubub of the restaurant! Would you get this sort of quality from a normal mobile phone voice recorder? Or has Mr Whyte been in receipt of professional assistance?

***************

Chris – I was thinkign the same – how many undercover recordings from the NoW have you lsitend to – ever the one dare I say it from Radio CLyde on the Guidi gate was hard to hear.

It was as if they sat with a kareoke machine having a scripted conversation………….

View Comment

paulmac2Posted on12:23 pm - Oct 25, 2012


angus1983 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:54

paulmac: firstly, the restaurant owner’s permission isn’t required.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Under what circumstances do you believe it is not required?

As I say this can be a multi-layered situation that may or may not allow the recording to take place…

View Comment

angus1983Posted on12:31 pm - Oct 25, 2012


chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:43

Anyone else think that the recording of the conversation between Whyte and Grier is of exceptional high quality.
——

Yes, it is. You’d almost think that professional, unidirectional microphones had been used. The levels of CW and DG’s voices are notably similar and free from distortion or muffling, which you wouldn’t expect from a wire under the jacket.

Is it just me, or is the BBC website down just now?

View Comment

rantinrobinPosted on12:33 pm - Oct 25, 2012


alex thomson ‏@alextomo
Rangers and intimidation – victims speak exclusively to #c4news tomorrow
———————————————————————————————————————

things are hotting up

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AgrajagPosted on12:37 pm - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 12:23
0 0 i
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angus1983 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:54

paulmac: firstly, the restaurant owner’s permission isn’t required.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Under what circumstances do you believe it is not required?

As I say this can be a multi-layered situation that may or may not allow the recording to take place…

==============================================

Most of the laws and regulations which have been quoted and discussed relate to a public body using it’s investigatory powers in order to perform a statutory duty. In that instance the person’s ECHR right to privacy is being breached using a statutory provision.

A private individual recording a conversation with another private individual doesn’t really fall into the same category.

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Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia)Posted on12:42 pm - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:41
2 15 i Rate This

I should add there are other important elements to this…

Names…did they refer to each other by name..thus identifying themselves? by the sounds of it they didn’t as Mark Daly states..a voice recognition expert was used…it is one thing to have an audio recording…it is entirley another to prove who it is that is speaking on the audio…whilst Craig has a distinctive voice Grier does not…

We’ve all heard the off the ball take offs…

_______________________________________

The fact that Duff&Duffer are bleating about it being taken out of context suggests it is Grier’s voice or else they’d be denying it outright.

View Comment

chris shields (@chrisshields10)Posted on12:44 pm - Oct 25, 2012


ordinaryfan says:

Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:56

Chris Shields: I expect a decent phone would be good enough, but it wouldn’t take much to get a professional device for pretty cheap. There are plenty of stores that sell surveillance equipment you can just buy over the counter.
———————————————-
Having the equipment is one thing, knowing how to use it correctly to get a quality recording is another. Remember there is a criminal investigation underway in regard to the purchase of the club! Could the MBB have done a deal with the law?

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on12:46 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews

Find out which European side is considering a bid to buy Wayne Rooney. Coming up on #SSN
——————————————————————————————————————–
Surely not another CG whopper.Probably using the cash from Apple & Adidas! :mrgreen:

View Comment

TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on12:52 pm - Oct 25, 2012


torrejohnbhoy: Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 12:46

the key giveaway is …… “European” 😉

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on12:57 pm - Oct 25, 2012


TheBlackKnight TBK says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 12:52

torrejohnbhoy: Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 12:46

the key giveaway is …… “European”
=========================================================
“Touche” 😆

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TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on1:02 pm - Oct 25, 2012


torrejohnbhoy, I meant it in the kindest sense. The*Rangers (2012) are not a European side. They do not qualify for a Euro license status as they are a newclub and do not have 3 years audited accounts.

Otherwise, had the report said:

“Sky Sports News ‏@SkySportsNews

Find out which new lower league side is considering a bid to buy Wayne Rooney. Coming up on #SSN”

🙂

View Comment

briggsbhoyPosted on1:07 pm - Oct 25, 2012


I’m just waiting on Chuckie taking credit for the latest GDP figures. The sale of tickets for the Olympics would of course been overshadowed by the sale of season tickets at Ibrokes.

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Danish PastryPosted on1:09 pm - Oct 25, 2012


angus1983 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 12:31
0 0 Rate This
chris shields (@chrisshields10) says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:43

Anyone else think that the recording of the conversation between Whyte and Grier is of exceptional high quality.
——

Yes, it is. You’d almost think that professional, unidirectional microphones had been used. The levels of CW and DG’s voices are notably similar and free from distortion or muffling, which you wouldn’t expect from a wire under the jacket.

Is it just me, or is the BBC website down just now?
————-

You can purchase small recording devices of quite remarkable quality these days. Many journalists use tiny hand-held devices to record press conferences. The BBC also has enormous capacity to clean up audio of poor quality. The latest iPhones, iPads are actually none too shabby either. Don’t think the actual audio quality is a reason to doubt the veracity of the content.

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rabPosted on1:10 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Im sure ally isn’t worried that he convinced a load of bears to buy season tickets in a club thats about to have its stadium and training ground removed from its possession.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on1:10 pm - Oct 25, 2012


paulmac2 on Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 08:23
——-
I should have said problems for those suspected of having to make payments to CW

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:11 pm - Oct 25, 2012


A couple of random thoughts.
Maybe,CW & Greir both use these wee dictaphone things.Businessmen recording conversations is quite common.I’d think there are lots of wee but of gossip lying around and we may well here more sooner rather than later.

Also,WRT the info from KDS and the misleading attendance figures,there may be a rational explanation,eg,counting ST holders who actually didn’t attend games.this however means that on these 2 occasions,circa 9k ST holders walked away.
Whilst not knowing the legal niceties and I’m sure Mr Green keeps everything above board,If I was a cynic I’d think that by increasing the attendance figures,one could claim extra income of say £100k per game.When the IPO is issued(if it’s issued) one could show projected income say £2m+ per season more than it really is.
Just saying,like.

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wottpiPosted on1:19 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Sorry to be a bit picky but can we just accept that Whyte has somehow made a recording and passed it to the BBC.

I am sure that, given what we were all told by Guidi Gate, that there are multiple software packages out there to do all sorts of things.

My guess is that the BBC may have just used their top end equipment to tidy up the recording and provide the best quality they could to bring out the dialogue for broadcasting to the nation.

I also believe that Mark Daly will have had someone in the sound department give the recording the once over to check out it if seemed genuine before going to air, especially given the threat of legal action from Duff and Duffer still hangs over his and the BBC’s heads.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on1:20 pm - Oct 25, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:11

Whilst not knowing the legal niceties and I’m sure Mr Green keeps everything above board,If I was a cynic I’d think that by increasing the attendance figures,one could claim extra income of say £100k per game.When the IPO is issued(if it’s issued) one could show projected income say £2m+ per season more than it really is.
Just saying,like.

————————————————————————————-

it would be costing him £20k in real cash for every game he did that on (VAT)

can he afford it just now? is it worth it?

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AgrajagPosted on1:21 pm - Oct 25, 2012


wottpi says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:19
0 0 i Rate This

Sorry to be a bit picky but can we just accept that Whyte has somehow made a recording and passed it to the BBC.

===============================

Seems the simplest and most likely explanation to me.

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agropelicanPosted on1:22 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Seems like another lifetime when we all had to go through the smoke and mirrors of the Murray years. Aided and abetted by his compliant press hounds who would print what was given rather than join in a hunt.

After feeding on propaganda for more than a decade, they are no longer able to sniff out a story and their instincts for doing so are lost to the breed. The kennel club would be proud to have such a breed, as they like the MSM do not care as long as they look good for show and to hell with all their inbred faults.

The ‘News Hound’ is no longer a working dog.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:23 pm - Oct 25, 2012


TheBlackKnight TBK says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:02

torrejohnbhoy, I meant it in the kindest sense. The*Rangers (2012) are not a European side. They do not qualify for a Euro license status as they are a newclub and do not have 3 years audited accounts.
=====================================================================
If my calculations are correct then the 1st season TRFC can become a European Side will be 2015/16.To play in Europe that season though.they will have had to win a cup competition the season before.To qualify through a league placing the first season TRFC will be eligible will actually be 1 season later,ie 2016/17.
This obviously does not take account of any league reconstruction.

View Comment

AgrajagPosted on1:24 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:20
0 0 i Rate This

torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:11

Whilst not knowing the legal niceties and I’m sure Mr Green keeps everything above board,If I was a cynic I’d think that by increasing the attendance figures,one could claim extra income of say £100k per game.When the IPO is issued(if it’s issued) one could show projected income say £2m+ per season more than it really is.
Just saying,like.

————————————————————————————-

it would be costing him £20k in real cash for every game he did that on (VAT)

can he afford it just now? is it worth it?

===========================================

Making a claim in a newspaper, and a declaration for VAT purposes are two entirely different things though.

The VAT figure will be based on paying customers through the turnstiles. Season tickets will be dealt with when they were / are paid for.

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rabPosted on1:27 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Is it time to throw sevco out of the league system yet, disband the sfa and bring in uefa or english fa representitives to govern scottish football and allow the non corrupted clubs a chance to restructure the game and elect Turnbull Hutton types to rule the game under transparent protocols. Lots of legal arguements to be had and no certainties of outcomes or timescales, all trust in any rfc official or sfa personell has long since evaporated and the game should not be forced into trying to accommodate these charlatans while they lie, cheat and stab each other in the back.

Enough is enough, cut out the cancer and any other malignant cells and give us a chance of trying to reorganise ourselves and regain the respect that has been taken from us in a shameful episode that is not of our making.

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Long Time LurkerPosted on1:27 pm - Oct 25, 2012


wottpi says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:19

MD noted in his piece yesterday that the recording was scrutinized by independent forensic analysis, and in their view the voices in that recording were those of Grier and Whyte.

Its almost like a school boy prank, recording a conversation.

More to come?

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smartbhoyPosted on1:31 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:20
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torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:11

Whilst not knowing the legal niceties and I’m sure Mr Green keeps everything above board,If I was a cynic I’d think that by increasing the attendance figures,one could claim extra income of say £100k per game.When the IPO is issued(if it’s issued) one could show projected income say £2m+ per season more than it really is.
Just saying,like.

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it would be costing him £20k in real cash for every game he did that on (VAT)

can he afford it just now? is it worth it?
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It won’t be costing him anything I would think. The Taxman and the Police will have the correct attendances, only the media and the public I would assume are only being fed the party line of higher attendance figures.

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smartbhoyPosted on1:37 pm - Oct 25, 2012


Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:27
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wottpi says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:19

MD noted in his piece yesterday that the recording was scrutinized by independent forensic analysis, and in their view the voices in that recording were those of Grier and Whyte.

Its almost like a school boy prank, recording a conversation.

More to come?
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I think he’s realised very early that D & P are trying to as we say “shaft him”. Then I think he’s went down this route of recording conversations. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mark Daly supplied him with the recording equipment and was using Whyte to gain more information. He’s an investigative journalist, that’s what they do. I’d think there is more to come recording wise, whether it’s with Grier or other figures in this shambles, I don’t know.

If you recall the Tommy Sheridan trial, his friend recorded him and that was used as evidence in court and he didn’t know he was being recorded. So I’d be pretty sure any recordings that Whyte has made will be admissible in court.

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