Guest Post by James Forrest
Those who like to read the techno-thrillers of Tom Clancy will remember well the scene in The Sum of all Fears, when the nuclear bomb explodes in Denver, outside the stadium where the Super Bowl is being played. Clancy handles the moment in two very distinct chapters. The second is a vivid and frightening examination of the explosion’s terrible effects as they are felt, firstly in Denver and then experienced around the world.
Before that, he devotes an entire chapter to the mechanics of the explosion itself. Chapters like this are either what attract readers to Clancy in the first place or turn them off entirely. It is technical, it is complex, and the layman who reads it and fully understands it is indeed a massive geek. Of all the times he has loaded the reader with technical detail, this is probably when he risked most in terms of keeping you interested in the story. Yet it works. The chapter is not long, but nor is it short. And the events in it span not seconds but fractions of a second
It was in that chapter I first learned the term “shake”, so named for the old aphorism “a shake of a lamb’s tail”. A “shake” is a term used in nuclear physics. It represents ten nanoseconds. To grasp fully the size of that, consider that there are a billion nanoseconds in a second. The chemical process involved in a nuclear detonation involves a number of “shakes”, with a chain reaction usually completed in 50.
Clancy’s decision to devote an entire chapter of the book to a few nanoseconds came back to me over and over again during the weeks and months of the Rangers crisis. It became clear to me that, drawn out though the events following administration were, what we were seeing was not the effect of the explosion but the explosion itself. Those months were our nanoseconds. Every day, every revelation, every moment we thought was a separate event, was merely a peek inside the bomb case, at the chemical process of a chain reaction.
I would say the chain reaction was completed on the day HMRC announced they were refusing the CVA proposal. That was the detonation. It’s only now we’re witnessing the explosion, and its effects, and in my view we are still a long way from the end of that process. We have had the initial double flash thermal pulse and we’ve seen some EMP effects, but the real damage is still to come. The shock wave and the fireball have yet to spread, and their cumulative effects could yet annihilate Ibrox and extend as far as Hampden.
Am I making claims of “financial Armageddon”? No, I’m not. I never believed the collapse of Rangers would devastate Scottish football. I thought then, and now, that it was scaremongering nonsense to even suggest it. It didn’t matter to me whether the authorities were spreading those stories because of a deep-seated love of the Ibrox club, or because they had bonuses at stake, or out of their own internal, personal weaknesses. Those stories were inconsistent, based on worst case scenarios which were never likely to materialise, and insulting. The notion that the game in this country amounts to no more than one or two teams is offensive.
I love football. I always have. I’m a Celtic supporter, but my interests in the game extend far beyond my own club. At its best, football is a tremendous unifier of people, from those wonderful stories about Christmas Day in the trenches of World War I to the matches organised every year between Palestinian and Israeli children. The game has the potential for tremendous good. I am proud that my own club’s supporters have honoured the dead of Hillsborough and Ibrox. I am proud they unfurled a banner to the Benfica player Miklos Feher, and invaded Seville and showed that city how to party. I am proud of every moment when the supporters of a club applauded an injured player, or staged a silence to honour an official or competitor at another team. Although there are some who would use this sport in a divisive way, who would hijack it for their own ends, I believe this game can still be an inspiration, and find the best in all of us.
I think what happened during this summer, as the fans of every club in the land made their voices heard, was one of the greatest moments in Scottish football’s recent history. I believe it will have an impact far beyond one season. I think it was special.
My concern, as I’ve said, is that the appalling effects of the detonation at Ibrox are still to be fully realised. I am worried about the impact they could yet have on all of us.
Let me be quite specific about the two things that worry me most. They are to do with the decision to grant Sevco/Rangers a license to play in the Scottish Football League this year.
First, I believe the license was granted without sufficient guarantees being given by Charles Green and others that they would respect the decisions taken by the independent judiciary panel of the SPL in relation to EBTs, and secondly, I am concerned that not enough is known about Green and his financial backers, or plans for Rangers, for the authorities to be satisfied that the club is in good financial health. I don’t believe for one second anyone can allay my fears in these two areas. It is obvious to all that due diligence has not been done, and the entire situation at Rangers/Sevco is still shrouded in doubt, and that anything may yet happen.
The independent panel investigating dual contracts is going to have to make the most momentous decision in the history of the game in the UK. I do not believe what Rangers are accused of has any precedent. We are talking about a decade or more in which the results of every single match might be in doubt. Every single game. The rules were not written to envision such an appalling breach of faith. It would seem almost inevitable that stripping of titles will be the smallest of Charles Green and Ally McCoist’s concerns if this verdict goes against them.
Frankly, I don’t see an alternative to suspending Rangers membership of football in this country for at least two years, with points deductions and monetary fines to follow when the suspension period is done. This is not harsh; in fact it falls far short of the maximum penalty, which is expulsion from the game altogether, and as it is the authorities are going to have to do a damned good job of setting out the reasons why that ultimate sanction is not applied. It will not be enough to say it would damage the game in Scotland to wipe the club away. To allow a decade of malfeasance to pass without that ultimate sanction would create the perception that Rangers is above the law, and I cannot think of anything that would do the game more harm than for any club to be considered too big, or too important, to be subject to the regulations.
With their money on the table, I don’t see any way Charles Green and his cohorts will accept the judgement of the independent panel if it has an impact on their plans to recoup their investments. With the way he’s rallied the Rangers fans behind him recently, by essentially talking about a conspiracy against them, I don’t see how he convinces them to accept sanctions, even if he personally was inclined to do so. He has painted himself into a corner where now, if he wants his money at all, he has to fight, and keep on fighting. Without the written guarantee that the club would accept whatever the panel decides, without recourse to the law, I will be shocked if this matter doesn’t end up in the courts somewhere down the line, because I don’t think for one second he signed up to that particular demand.
I think the SFA backed down on this, the most fundamental matter of them all.
Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.
At an early stage in the Rangers crisis, a couple of people told me they thought the club would not play football for at least a year. I told them of all the possible scenarios that was the most unlikely, because I honestly could see no way back for them once they had gone. There is no precedent I am aware of, anywhere, for a football club taking a “year out” only to return. Certainly, in the context of the Scottish game I didn’t see how it could be done without creating one almighty shambles, or by bending the rules until the elastic snapped.
Yet I’ve since become convinced that it was the correct course of action. The club calling itself Rangers FC is still in a state of flux. The issues still surrounding it are enormous and potentially devastating. There are any number of ways in which the entire edifice could utterly collapse. The liquidators and HMRC could yet challenge the takeover, or the coming share issue. Craig Whyte may yet emerge and take a claim to the courts. The share issue itself could be an utter failure, leaving the club unable to meet annual running costs. All of this, even without the vast effects of the EBT case, which has the potential to wash the whole club away.
Had Rangers been out of the game for a year, these issues could have been properly explored, dealt with and put behind them, and the game as whole.
Of course, it’s just possible that the worst is over. It’s possible that this particular nuclear detonation, like the one is The Sum of All Fears, is an enormous “fizzle”, that the appalling destruction unleashed will not be on the thermonuclear level which could obliterate our hopes of a fresh start, of forward motion for the whole game. It might be that everything at Ibrox is hunky-dory, that this, all I’ve written, is the product of a febrile imagination, on the same level as the financial Armageddon nonsense we spent the summer hearing about.
It may well be, but only if the people who’ve been right all along have suddenly gotten it wrong. The evidence all points to something big, and bad, coming this way.
The smart folks will be hunkering down in their shelters for a while yet.
James is a co-editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, latest issue out 17th October (digital, and free), featuring women’s football
He could easily imply or infer that there are 49k people paying in – with the reality being that only 40k have paid to be there and 9k were given freebies.
But lest we forget the pie sales are the key to the whole operation. ©John Bomber Brown
Is it just me or is this fustercluck of a situation begining to resemble a score from the movie
DupedFellas..& The HMRC heist..?
TGEF rats…wearing a wire & blabs to the DA. Duff & Duffer (the NY family) get wind & send over Marty “The Paperweight” Dauer.He calls a meeting with the Scattish crew & sorts out their MSM slugs with his rapid fire Duffspeak, bullsh*t, lies & spin.He then “calls a sit down” with Chuck “Flash” Green & Congressman Salmond,(-S) DM gauranteeing his safety…obviously.
Shortly after this there will be stiffs being discovered all over the place…
Jack “the c*ck” Irvine…found hangin, frozen in the back of a mobile library…
Jim “Jabba the Hut” Traynor…found in a (now empty.?) skip behind Greggs factory..
(previously twice buried in a landfill in Airdrie, only to have eaten his way to the surface)
Darell “The Truth” King..found in a booth in Tannereef with various “strategically placed” awards.
As for the rest..they will eventually be found,bound & gaffer taped,in a lime pit under the hover pitches with “signed” copies of Downfall nail gunned to their foreheads..!!
…maybe it is just me..
On the day following scoops and megascoops regarding the Ibrox fiasco, I see that Jabba and his jabsworths are continuing to give comfort to those self-deluded followers of the undead. For the past number of weeks they have been banging on about The Rangers ‘World record attendances for 4th tier matches’, which, according to Strathclyde Police, are entirely false. Nonetheless, in an unending quest to ensure equivalence, they are, today of all days, highlighting a new record for Celtic (having the lowest amount of possession in a CL match against Barcelona). Fair and balanced ? As previously stated, I don’t buy it, but perhaps I should stop reading it all together.
youtawknaboot says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:46
Jim “Jabba the Hut” Traynor…found in a (now empty.?) skip behind Greggs factory..
======================================================================
Right behind Greggs factory(Cambuslang) is the “Chunky Chicks”,owned by Vion,the company who just closed Scotlands biggest supplier of Succulent Lamb.
Coincidence or what!
stevensanph says: Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 10:05
=======================
Some good stuff there but your info for Hearts is out of date (i.e 2010 accounts)
The Creditors figures for the year ending 30/06/11 are:
Within one year £29.609M
More than one year £1.702M
Fixed assets are £16.274M
Current Assets are £1.114M
I know we are still a basket case, but not quite as bad as it appears in your table
I wonder if Googly taped his conversations with Minty….or Chuckles;)………..
paulmac2 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 12:23
angus1983 says:
paulmac: firstly, the restaurant owner’s permission isn’t required.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Under what circumstances do you believe it is not required?
——
An individual can pretty much record any conversation he likes. Usually, a transcript of the tape can be admitted as evidence, with the recording made available.
The conversation happened in a public place evidently within earshot of other customers who could reasonably be expected to be able to overhear it. This puts serious strain on any claims that it was a private conversation. Though it is arguable that you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a restaurant.
I should imagine that any conversations recorded by CW will have been done in public places. He’s obviously not as stupid as he is tattie-looking. Be careful if he ever asks you out for a pint!
When authorities make such recordings for the purpose of gathering incriminating evidence, things get a lot more complicated
(For investigating authorities, to whom RIPA applies, the parts of a restaurant to which the general public are given unqualified access (by implied consent by the owner) do not usually fall under the legal definition of private property for the purposes of directed or covert surveillance. That is, you don’t need to ask permission before carrying out such surveillance as recording a conversation, though if you were setting up cameras and stuff it would be only polite to do so.)
Even if the recording was held to have been illegally obtained, it can still usually be admissible – as long as it does not prejudice the fairness of court proceedings. Which this doesn’t, again under ECHR.
As mentioned before, it would be expected that the defence would strenuously deny the authenticity of a recording at the earliest opportunity for them to have any chance of getting it thrown out in Court. D&D have said it was taken out of context already, not denied it was real.
It’s Armageddon:
BBC Sportsound @bbcsportsound
United reduce debt & post profit: Dundee United’s annual results show the club posted a profit of £1.45m, with b… http://bbc.in/RIaXkj
Humble Pie says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:51
======================================================
HP – your skills are much better used in writing eloquently about the demise of RFC and the sham that is SEVCO 5088. This FOI request is TfT in response to an earlier one to establish a Celtic home crowd (against Dundee?). Who cares? I think it’s generally accepted, doctored figures or not, that a fair number of people have turned up in Govan to see a team play football and that the SPL hasn’t been decimated due to the self-inflicted demise of Rangers FC.
Moving on, I demand to know what Observer’s techical analysis of the CW tapes is. 🙂
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:53
🙂
Always keep your mouth shut…& never rat on your friends..!
Gym Trainer says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:42
He could easily imply or infer that there are 49k people paying in – with the reality being that only 40k have paid to be there and 9k were given freebies.
——
Aye, but that would assume that the TRFC figures were correct.
The Police don’t just count people who pay on the gate. Their figure is the total number of bodies, ST holders or not.
On the subject of repeating a complete lie until it becomes accepted truth – try googling “fourth tier football attendance record”.
I wonder what would happen to the ‘claimed attendance’ numbers if the police, the first aiders, tatoo artists, flute bands and assorted others all claimed their fees based on the official attendance figures as released by The Govan Folk?
I have a slight worry that the release of the Govan Gate tapes, it might be claimed, prejudice any future trial. This would happen if the widely publicised conversation was ruled ‘inadmissable’.
smartbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:37
The Mark Daley assisting TGEF to record conversations is interesting. Perhaps this explains the TGEF’s approach to Chris McLaughlin for his interview last week i.e. creating some distance between himself and Mark before getting out there with the recorded conversations.
Who did TEGF have a conversation with, in the time between the McLaughin interview and the latest Daley piece?
Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
Hearts fans offered chance to buy 10% of the club in bid to raise £1.79m http://bit.ly/RItk8J
rab says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:27
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Is it time to throw sevco out of the league system yet, disband the sfa and bring in uefa or english fa representitives to govern scottish football and allow the non corrupted clubs a chance to restructure the game and elect Turnbull Hutton types to rule the game under transparent protocols. Lots of legal arguements to be had and no certainties of outcomes or timescales, all trust in any rfc official or sfa personell has long since evaporated and the game should not be forced into trying to accommodate these charlatans while they lie, cheat and stab each other in the back.
Enough is enough, cut out the cancer and any other malignant cells and give us a chance of trying to reorganise ourselves and regain the respect that has been taken from us in a shameful episode that is not of our making.
_________________________________________________________________________________
I’d buy into that 100% Rab – well done. I agree, major surgery needed.
But,
1. Who could make that happen?
2. If run from England, what happens after Independence?
See Dundee United have announced a profit this year!
But, but, but, armageddon! Social unrest! No TV deal!
Imagine that, Jabba and pals get it wrong again!
torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 14:52
Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
Hearts fans offered chance to buy 10% of the club in bid to raise £1.79m http://bit.ly/RItk8J
——————————————————————————-
“Every pound raised by supporters, after costs, will be reinvested into the club and we expect that this will be a popular offer.
sounds familiar!!!! LOL
don’t really know the hearts financial situation, i know they are in HUGE debt compared to their turnover, and i know that they were paying huge wages based on turnover (but i think that has been reigned in)
It’s an interesting one as it is different but yet similar to the Sevco share offer.
most startling similarity is the need to raise money to pay running costs. For me, that would be a huge no no/warning sign
Also, Vlad has put a lot of his cash into hearts and has little likelihood of a return, so is he selling his shares to get some of that back – or will it actually go into the club. (much like our thoughts with regards to the sevco consortium)
Is vlad going to write off the money owed to him? or is there another plan to repay it to him – would hearts fans be happy to pay over money to him simply to reduce the debts to him?
be interesting to hear the jambos thoughts on this – they will understand their situation much better than i do, so i’m keen to hear your thoughts
obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 14:58
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See Dundee United have announced a profit this year!
But, but, but, armageddon! Social unrest! No TV deal!
Imagine that, Jabba and pals get it wrong again!
—————————————————-
sorry to be a miserable sod, the results cover a period when RFC were in the league and they sold 2 players for in excess of £2M
although they were also stung by a club not paying money owed to them!
next years results will be much more interesting
angus1983 says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 14:15i
On the subject of repeating a complete lie until it becomes accepted truth – try googling “fourth tier football attendance record”.
———————————-
Though if you follow some of these links you’ll find where they allow comments that “internet bampots” are challenging the story and accusing the sites of “lazy journalism”
In the old days a lie could be “half way round the world before truth had got his boots on” but nowadays the internet allows us to catch up a lot faster.
Manandboy.
Ultimately i want control returned to scottish hands, im just looking for outside agencies to take over from the sfa until we can organise ourselves and elect trustworthy men to govern the game. The uncertainty surrounding sevco’s future should be the catalyst to have them removed until definitive answers are provided, this should have been the default position from the very start to lessen any further impact on our clubs.
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 14:38
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smartbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 13:37
The Mark Daley assisting TGEF to record conversations is interesting. Perhaps this explains the TGEF’s approach to Chris McLaughlin for his interview last week i.e. creating some distance between himself and Mark before getting out there with the recorded conversations.
Who did TEGF have a conversation with, in the time between the McLaughin interview and the latest Daley piece?
_____________________________________________________________________
You don’t know what has been getting said behind close doors, but McLaughlin and Daly are work colleagues. This could have been planned from the start. D & P threaten to sue the BBC, the bosses get Daly and McLaughlin in and tell them, “Let’s get these B******S” Whyte gives the interview to McLaughlin already knowing that the print media and anyone involved in administration/liquidation would try to discredit him. The following week Daly comes out with the curve ball of the recording with Grier.
The recording was made on May 31st? How long has Daly been sitting on this information and how many more recordings has Whyte made from the beginning of June until the interview with McLaughlin. Is there a lot of people involved in this scam sweating at the moment thinking I met with Whyte and trying to remember if they said anything that is going to implicate them in this scam and thinking to themselves “Has he recorded our phone call/meeting”?
I might be wrong, but any investigative journalist won’t disclose everything he knows, he’ll always keep a few home runs for a rainy day. I expect more revelations to start to leak out over the coming weeks. Don’t you just love our hero and Daly.
Or Whyte is holding all the information and drip feeding it to the BBC and Daly??
Is he trying to make selected individuals sweat??
There’s one thing. Whyte doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him, his reputation is mud in a lot of circles in Scotland.
The question is what’s his motive and why???
The answer is and always will be one thing, MONEY!!!!
A few snapshot gems from the past CW 24 hours – apols if missed anyone [ran out of space]
• obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says: Craig Whyte, secret agent?
• posmill says: I’m running out of popcorn here!
• allyjambo says: Be afraid Green Rangers, be very afraid!!!
• rab says: This tragipantomime just got surreal.
• pau1mart1n says: it’ll be like the end of reservoir dogs with dictaphones
• Agrajag says: Wow, just wow! – You couldn’t make this stuff up.
• redlichtie says: Karmageddon!
• neepheid says: I’m getting some popcorn in myself before Posmill buys the lot!
• goosygoosy says: Mmmmm – More angles to come
• exiledcelt says: D&P – “On Her Majestys Service” in Barlinnie
• onceabhoy says: Popcorn, jelly…..tissues.
• yourhavingalaugh says: Duppie a do da Duppie all day .
• john clarke says: Being a top of the range QC means being very, very good at the law, not a purveyor of facts that are untrue.
• campsiejoe says: Or in other words – “Oh shit we are in trouble, and we need time to concoct a story”
• angus1983 says: “We do not respond to …”Funny, I could have sworn that was a response I just read there.
• tommythehat says: There may be trouble ahead–but while there’s moonbeams, laughter, the gef and his tie, let’s face the Bar-Land and cry 😉
• john clarke says: For the sake of epistemological correctness, I should have said something like ‘purveyor of untruths’.
• bogsdollox says: Craigie has the eyes and tentacles of an Octopus.
• john clarke says: I suspect that New York D&P will not be at all worried about whether Clark and Whitehouse may have done wrong, but only about the alleged possibility that they may have been caught doing an alleged wrong!
• Stifler’s Mom says: Is this the first of the Whytegate tapes? – I’ll get my jerkin….!
• HirsutePursuit says: …actually, on reflection, could they be that stupid??
• panbreid says: …he’s chasing the floater, he’ll be on to plums, even with those trustworthy eyes.
• rustyploughbhoy says: I would never have thought all this corporate skullduggery would be such fun
• MickyMince says: Time he retired to his bed with a biography of Scot Symon to keep him company.
• pau1mart1n says: it wasn’t covert. CW told Grier they were recording for “the secret billionaire”.
• Parson St. Bhoy says: James Bond isn’t in it. The name’s White/Whyte… Craigy Bhoy White/Whyte.
• ordinaryfan says: will have had the likes of Jabba up all night sweating and desperately trying to remember what he has said in the company of Whyte.
• wottpi says: Or maybe that’s just the way it is in spivland.
• iceman63 says: Loving it!
• TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says: I look forward to further comment from Marty in NY.
• chris shields (@chrisshields10) says: Or has Mr Whyte been in receipt of professional assistance?
• exiledcelt says: It was as if they sat with a karaoke machine having a scripted conversation………
• rantinrobin says: things are hotting up
• agropelican says: The ‘News Hound’ is no longer a working dog.
• Long Time Lurker says: More to come?
• torrejohnbhoy says: Armageddon. Dundee United’s annual results show the club posted a profit of £1.45m
• obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says: Imagine that, Jabba and pals get it wrong again!
——
“The sports stars who decided to play for free – or even paid for the privilege”
Ally McCoist
The Rangers manager reacted to the club’s finanical meltdown by immediately offering his services for nothing. “He was one of the first people to turn to Duff and Phelps and say, ‘Don’t pay me any salary’,” said new club chief Charles Green. “Ally worked for free and I don’t know any manager who has gone into their boss’s office and said, ‘I will work for free’.”
And given that Rangers have lost one and drawn three of their first eight games against the part-time nobodies of Scottish Division Three, it looks like the Glasgow giants have got exactly what they paid for.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rundown/sports-stars-decided-play-free-even-paid-privilege-144409503.html
——
Fit, nae Sone Aluko? 🙂
The Hearts share issue suggests to me that Vlad sees the club’s funding shortfall for the rest of the year as being the £1.79M he is seeking to raise.
In one respect that is good news in that in last last year’s accounts (to June 2011) he wrote off £8.8M in order for the club to break even. If my thinking is correct then elimiating around £7M in costs over two years is a significant move in the right direction.
What doesn’t look too good is that the £1.79M is for 10% of the shares, valuing the club at £17.9M. I still think that is still far too optimistic as a valuation in the current climate, probably by a factor of two. I am a current shareholder, but I don’t see myself taking up the offer as it stands, but I will keep a close eye on how things progress.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
True NTHM, but I wonder how Utd’s financial results would have looked had they accepted any of the 18 bids made by Rangers(IL) for David Goodwillie?
Iceman @ 10.46
Hirsute Pursuit earlier,
According to what you say, liquidation may be put on hold, asset sale reversed, and a better deal sought for creditors through continuing administration.
Could exit through a new CVA be tried? They couldn’t, could they?
Guidi on SSB tonight 🙂 wonder what he’ll be ‘hoping’ for tonight 😉 sorry couldn’t resist ……… 😉
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 15:02
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torrejohnbhoy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 14:52
Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
Hearts fans offered chance to buy 10% of the club in bid to raise £1.79m http://bit.ly/RItk8J
——————————————————————————-
“Every pound raised by supporters, after costs, will be reinvested into the club and we expect that this will be a popular offer.
sounds familiar!!!! LOL
don’t really know the hearts financial situation, i know they are in HUGE debt compared to their turnover, and i know that they were paying huge wages based on turnover (but i think that has been reigned in)
It’s an interesting one as it is different but yet similar to the Sevco share offer.
most startling similarity is the need to raise money to pay running costs. For me, that would be a huge no no/warning sign
Also, Vlad has put a lot of his cash into hearts and has little likelihood of a return, so is he selling his shares to get some of that back – or will it actually go into the club. (much like our thoughts with regards to the sevco consortium)
Is vlad going to write off the money owed to him? or is there another plan to repay it to him – would hearts fans be happy to pay over money to him simply to reduce the debts to him?
be interesting to hear the jambos thoughts on this – they will understand their situation much better than i do, so i’m keen to hear your thoughts
—————————————————————————————————————–
So Hearts are now worth £17.9 m. In november last year they were worth £50m according to the bold Vlad so let me see…………Lets start with a quick comment on the latest accounts 2011. 2010 figures in brackets
Turnover down from last year £6.9m (£7.9m)
Operating loss £6.6m (£6.9m)
Debt forgiveness by Vlad ! ££8.8m (£5.9m)
Losing as much as it is turning over
Fixed Assets £16.28m (£18.70m)
Creditors less than 1 year £29.61m (£15.33m)
Creditors more than 1 year £1.70m (£25.7m)
Looks like Vlad has put his debt on demand
So looks like negative asset value circa £14m
And now some interesting notes to the accounts
1 No need to worry about tax losses as “it is not clear that suitable taxable profits will be available in future…………………………ok
2 Tynecastle development is not viable……..
3 Vlad converted £10m of his debt into equity at 10p per share………..he wants 11p this week
So a minority shareholding in Hearts is not looking a good investment in my opinion. Operating profit never likely, negative assets, no development potential. Sorry all you Hearts boys out there but this is a basket case without Vlad. Probably best to wait until Vlad runs out of cash and press the reset button…………………I am sure that lovely Mr Grier from Duff and Phelps could help…….himself
ordinaryfan says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 11:56
Chris Shields: I expect a decent phone would be good enough, but it wouldn’t take much to get a professional device for pretty cheap. There are plenty of stores that sell surveillance equipment you can just buy over the counter.
………………………………………………………………………….
I had reason last year to be concerned with information I was being given and bought a USB flash drive with hidden audio recorder.
I just left this connected to my laptop whilst having conversations and the quality and clarity was superb.
Less than 30 quid and it holds about 250 hours of recording.
I think Dundee United’s profit will be based on last season’s business guys so let’s not get too excited just yet. It will be interesting to see all the SPL teams accounts next autumn though.
Another quite day like yesterday … until Mark Daly pops up to let us know that he has MORE secret tape revelations! This is too much fun! ;
willmacufree says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:20
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Iceman @ 10.46
Hirsute Pursuit earlier,
According to what you say, liquidation may be put on hold, asset sale reversed, and a better deal sought for creditors through continuing administration.
Could exit through a new CVA be tried? They couldn’t, could they?
==============================
No
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 15:04
donsfan says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:52
What they said. I did wonder whether Utd may have a later accounting date for some reason, but the statement mentions “up to the end of the financial year”, which I assume means April.
The interesting financials for SPL clubs (or companies ;)) will be next year’s – or the year after’s.
Another quiet day like yesterday … until Mark Daly pops up to let us know that he has MORE secret tape revelations! This is too much fun! ;
Mark Daly @markdaly2
More Duff & Phelps secret tape revelations tonight on Reporting Scotland BBC1 6.30pm
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Mark Daly @markdaly2
More Duff & Phelps secret tape revelations tonight on Reporting Scotland BBC1 6.30pm
Yah! I’m off sick, and the missus and bairn are away in Hungary for the week.
At least I get Reporting Scotland to look forward to every night now! 🙂
Looks like MD is going to drip feed info.I wonder how much he has?.
I’d assume the BBC will be sure of the legality of their info before broadcasting.
Surely every little piece released must now be another nail in D&Ps coffin.
MD stated that their file is with LH,I assume that’s the complete file.This is being played out in public so for what it’s worth,I’d think LH would have to have very good reason to sign off D&P with no action taken.
Whether he likes it or not,people will be watching him to see what he does.
Tommy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:59
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Mark Daly @markdaly2
More Duff & Phelps secret tape revelations tonight on Reporting Scotland BBC1 6.30pm
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_______________________________
Damn, probably means he doesn’t have enough for another program 🙁 Unless, of course, he’s got so much more to reveal that he’s just giving us a wee taster 😉
Brenda says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:25
He’ll be hopin you know who wi the cloth ears and the multiple personalities isnae listenin, the poster who signs himself in as someone else tae back up his arguments. 🙂
Sorry Brenda but couldnae resist 🙂
I hope Marty`s Cross-Service Playbook provides a navigable blueprint about a timely or in-demand service offering for what is about to be beamed over the pond on team members who successfully referred business outside of their core area. 😉
Agrajag says: Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:57
willmacufree says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:20
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Iceman @ 10.46
Hirsute Pursuit earlier,
According to what you say, liquidation may be put on hold, asset sale reversed, and a better deal sought for creditors through continuing administration.
Could exit through a new CVA be tried? They couldn’t, could they?
==============================
No
==========
Agrajag,
Thanks for your not over-elaborate reply. I have to say your brief certainty has me convinced, and relieved.
Listen, I’m not a Jambo, but if Vlad comes out and opens the CO can (i’m sure he could), reems the ballbags ruining our game, tells us he’s tore, gives us a rare laugh in the process…. but needs the dogh to keep the club from the bin, I’ll donate a small sum myself.
easyJambo says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:17
eJ iam fairly certain that with your generous retirement benefits you can easily afford 1000 shares at 11 pence each to avert Armageddon (at least at Tynie anyway ;))
Since he with scarey eyes came back on the scene am I right in thinking that Chuckie who I will now refer to as The Great Pretender has been a bit on the quite side. Does he get his money back if it’s proven the sale was not in the best interest of creditors? All this from scarey eyes must surely put the share issue on the back burner.
Tommy says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 16:59
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Mark Daly @markdaly2
More Duff & Phelps secret tape revelations tonight on Reporting Scotland BBC1 6.30pm
==================
You’re having a laugh faither, surely not.
I wonder how many of the players in the game are completely bricking it right now … 🙂
What other tales from the tape will we get this evening?
Could there be more on Ticketus? What else is there to say?
Perhaps a sale of the assets of RFC (IA) on favourable terms to Mr Green?
Jesus, MORE!!??
It’s going to get to the point where Craig Whyte provides a tape with damning evidence of what really happened when Bill Struth and William Wilton went out on that boat….
IMO, CW was sourced for this gig and I have never thought of the BBC as being anti establishment club so I would take CW doing anything in this to undermine anything connected to Ragers with a pinch of salt .
Something I can’t get my head around is ,if Ticketus are chasing CW for the cash they say they are due as Scottish law differed to English law meaning Ticketus could be put onto the list of unsecured creditors but the CG (who CW says he brought to the table ) deal brought Ticketus back in place with the Sevco 5088 /Sevco Sc angle thus getting Ticketus off CWs back ,why would CW be doing everything now to undo the CG deal .
Would that not put Ticketus back into the position of chasing CW for their cash again
Sally Magnusson: “Coming up – How D&D attempted to persuade CW to mislead tax authorities …”
🙂
obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88) says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 17:54
Jesus, MORE!!??
It’s going to get to the point where Craig Whyte provides a tape with damning evidence of what really happened when Bill Struth and William Wilton went out on that boat….
*******************
Tomorrow night, CW has recorded the chatting up of Joanna Lumley by an inebriated David Murray…………….
Monday Night: Craig Whyte and Prince Ranier of Monaco. THE PROOF!
http://www.thepopcornfactory.com
Over to you Lord Hodge 🙂
http://sportige.com/rangers-fans-08-2012-set-new-european-attendance-record/
Not quite a world record
Big up to BBC Scotland. Daly’s investigation on Reporting Scotland and over on the radio, Jim Spence and Tom English exploding the Armageddon myths. Not a bad day at all 🙂
Just got back in to house as the Daly piece finished and faded back to Sally.
Someone please give me the main bullet points:-)
so what was said / alleged then?
Any truth in the rumours Jack irvine has ordered a CHAMP missile from Boeing for when the FTT result hits t’internet? 😀
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/10/24/163554934/boeing-successfully-tests-electronics-frying-microwave-missile
Charlie Brown says: Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 18:46
so what was said / alleged then?
======================
Grier asked Whyte to agree to making a statement saying that all was OK with MCR’s involvement and state that they were unaware of the full details of the Ticketus/Lloyds debt repayment arrangements.
Whyte suggested that Grier talked to Media House to draw up a statement.
You then heard Grier on the phone to Media House asking them to draw up a statement.
Daly has a copy of the draft statement that was produced in an email (I assume to Whyte)
I am not in Scotland so followed it on KSDS…
Summary
Greir was going to get a statement written for Whyte to absolve MCR of any Ticketus knowledge prior to the deal being done. This was to ensure HMRC went along with D and P. Grier called Media house and asked them to write a statement saying Whyte was happy with Duff and Fud and that the Green bid was the way to go.
the recording is 2 hours long- I think if this was a kidknapping he has sent home a piece of hair and a little finger. I guess the best is yet to come. He is some baby is Craigy boy- he has them bang to rights. He is up to his neck in it but he was anyway
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11821462&t=8731534
wottpi and charlie brown,
mark daly on radio scotland in 5 minutes – catch up there
Apparenlty there are 2 hours of the recording and we have had 15 mins of it so far……….
Cheers EJ 🙂 so when does the jenga tower all come toppling down now then?
* It was part of a two-hour conversation that was recorded st a private membets club! (So more to come?)
* Grier (I believe it was Grier) is heard calling a PR type to ask whether a statement from Whyte affirming no knowledge of the TicketUs stuff on the part of D&P wouldn’t be a good idea. (Whyte never made the statement, although one was drafted and sent to him)
* Inference (I think) is that D&P wanted Whyte to make a msleading statement (tell a lie) so that HMRC would not remove D&P as admins due to COI.
Whyte’s voice is clearest, which suggests he has the recording device is on the table in front of him or in his jacket pocket.
Very naughty on the part of D&P. Sounds like they’re in for six of the belt from the Herdie.
MickyMince says:
Thursday, October 25, 2012 at 18:54
Working late – so can’t 🙁
Showing my age here but I recall from the old BBC POW television series Colditz an episode where an attempt to escape the castle was made by a British officer who embarked on a long campaign of feigning mental illness with the aim of being repatriated on compassionate grounds. The officer duly acted his part and gradually developed relevant symptoms over a prolonged period to the point where his captors could not ignore his apparent mental illness. He was medically examined with the end result being repatriation. The officer’s ingenious plan had indeed proved successful.
There was however a terrible twist to the tale; the officer’s act had in fact become reality and he had actually become irreversibly mentally ill.
Likewise, and most seriously, there must surely be some health and safety concerns for a certain columnist renowned for continually putting (lamb) skewed observations on the Record? I would also venture that there are several more individuals in the oldco/newco saga similarly endangered.
Sounds like they’re in for six of the belt from the Heedie!
🙂
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
@kennythecelt @riddrie Lots of people will disappointed at what BDO don’t do. Extremely unlikely that any part of this will be reversed.
Rangers Tax-Case@rangerstaxcase
@kennythecelt @riddrie Lots of people will disappointed at what BDO don’t do. Extremely unlikely that any part of this will be reversed.
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Thanks to Mark Daly and the BBC for their Reporting Scotland pieces over the last 2 nights.
Hopefully Alex Thomson’s expose on Channel 4 News tomorrow re Rangers’ fans intimadatory tactics will be equally explosive.
What will it take for one of the “Big Three” viz The Sun, Daily Record or STV, to break ranks and join what promises to turn into a torrent of negative publicity over the next 2-3 weeks, with CoS, FTT and dual contracts all looming on the horizon.
All I would say is whichever is the last of these three to see sense will look the most cowardly in everyones’ eyes.
Meanwhile, over at RM (that finely tuned voice of reason and fount of rapier wit), some severe knicker-twisting going on about Alex T filming in Glasgow today.
To be broadcast tomorrow on C4 News apparently, a piece about intimidation by Rangers types … Chris Graham straight down his throat “Intimidated by Rangers? The Club?”, followed by a series of tweets from other TRFC supporters, which are not in the least intimidating. All reproduced in the thread.
If only they could see the irony.
AT filiming at Third Lanark’s old ground. I wonder what analogy he’s trying to make there? 🙂
For those with sterner constitutions, here’s the thread in question:
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=241106&st=0
(I’m not one for refusing to visit sites so as not to give them hits. I mean, who cares really? Nothing against folk who hold that view, though. I do wonder why the authorities haven’t closed RM down yet, though. Festering hotbed of hatred, with dozens of barely legal comments.)
For “intimadatory” read intimidatory.
Oops.