Three Shakes … and a Twist

ByTrisidium

Three Shakes … and a Twist

Guest Post by James Forrest
Those who like to read the techno-thrillers of Tom Clancy will remember well the scene in The Sum of all Fears, when the nuclear bomb explodes in Denver, outside the stadium where the Super Bowl is being played. Clancy handles the moment in two very distinct chapters. The second is a vivid and frightening examination of the explosion’s terrible effects as they are felt, firstly in Denver and then experienced around the world.

Before that, he devotes an entire chapter to the mechanics of the explosion itself. Chapters like this are either what attract readers to Clancy in the first place or turn them off entirely. It is technical, it is complex, and the layman who reads it and fully understands it is indeed a massive geek. Of all the times he has loaded the reader with technical detail, this is probably when he risked most in terms of keeping you interested in the story. Yet it works. The chapter is not long, but nor is it short. And the events in it span not seconds but fractions of a second

It was in that chapter I first learned the term “shake”, so named for the old aphorism “a shake of a lamb’s tail”. A “shake” is a term used in nuclear physics. It represents ten nanoseconds. To grasp fully the size of that, consider that there are a billion nanoseconds in a second. The chemical process involved in a nuclear detonation involves a number of “shakes”, with a chain reaction usually completed in 50.

Clancy’s decision to devote an entire chapter of the book to a few nanoseconds came back to me over and over again during the weeks and months of the Rangers crisis. It became clear to me that, drawn out though the events following administration were, what we were seeing was not the effect of the explosion but the explosion itself. Those months were our nanoseconds. Every day, every revelation, every moment we thought was a separate event, was merely a peek inside the bomb case, at the chemical process of a chain reaction.

I would say the chain reaction was completed on the day HMRC announced they were refusing the CVA proposal. That was the detonation. It’s only now we’re witnessing the explosion, and its effects, and in my view we are still a long way from the end of that process. We have had the initial double flash thermal pulse and we’ve seen some EMP effects, but the real damage is still to come. The shock wave and the fireball have yet to spread, and their cumulative effects could yet annihilate Ibrox and extend as far as Hampden.

Am I making claims of “financial Armageddon”? No, I’m not. I never believed the collapse of Rangers would devastate Scottish football. I thought then, and now, that it was scaremongering nonsense to even suggest it. It didn’t matter to me whether the authorities were spreading those stories because of a deep-seated love of the Ibrox club, or because they had bonuses at stake, or out of their own internal, personal weaknesses. Those stories were inconsistent, based on worst case scenarios which were never likely to materialise, and insulting. The notion that the game in this country amounts to no more than one or two teams is offensive.

I love football. I always have. I’m a Celtic supporter, but my interests in the game extend far beyond my own club. At its best, football is a tremendous unifier of people, from those wonderful stories about Christmas Day in the trenches of World War I to the matches organised every year between Palestinian and Israeli children. The game has the potential for tremendous good. I am proud that my own club’s supporters have honoured the dead of Hillsborough and Ibrox. I am proud they unfurled a banner to the Benfica player Miklos Feher, and invaded Seville and showed that city how to party. I am proud of every moment when the supporters of a club applauded an injured player, or staged a silence to honour an official or competitor at another team. Although there are some who would use this sport in a divisive way, who would hijack it for their own ends, I believe this game can still be an inspiration, and find the best in all of us.

I think what happened during this summer, as the fans of every club in the land made their voices heard, was one of the greatest moments in Scottish football’s recent history. I believe it will have an impact far beyond one season. I think it was special.

My concern, as I’ve said, is that the appalling effects of the detonation at Ibrox are still to be fully realised. I am worried about the impact they could yet have on all of us.

Let me be quite specific about the two things that worry me most. They are to do with the decision to grant Sevco/Rangers a license to play in the Scottish Football League this year.

First, I believe the license was granted without sufficient guarantees being given by Charles Green and others that they would respect the decisions taken by the independent judiciary panel of the SPL in relation to EBTs, and secondly, I am concerned that not enough is known about Green and his financial backers, or plans for Rangers, for the authorities to be satisfied that the club is in good financial health. I don’t believe for one second anyone can allay my fears in these two areas. It is obvious to all that due diligence has not been done, and the entire situation at Rangers/Sevco is still shrouded in doubt, and that anything may yet happen.

The independent panel investigating dual contracts is going to have to make the most momentous decision in the history of the game in the UK. I do not believe what Rangers are accused of has any precedent. We are talking about a decade or more in which the results of every single match might be in doubt. Every single game. The rules were not written to envision such an appalling breach of faith. It would seem almost inevitable that stripping of titles will be the smallest of Charles Green and Ally McCoist’s concerns if this verdict goes against them.

Frankly, I don’t see an alternative to suspending Rangers membership of football in this country for at least two years, with points deductions and monetary fines to follow when the suspension period is done. This is not harsh; in fact it falls far short of the maximum penalty, which is expulsion from the game altogether, and as it is the authorities are going to have to do a damned good job of setting out the reasons why that ultimate sanction is not applied. It will not be enough to say it would damage the game in Scotland to wipe the club away. To allow a decade of malfeasance to pass without that ultimate sanction would create the perception that Rangers is above the law, and I cannot think of anything that would do the game more harm than for any club to be considered too big, or too important, to be subject to the regulations.

With their money on the table, I don’t see any way Charles Green and his cohorts will accept the judgement of the independent panel if it has an impact on their plans to recoup their investments. With the way he’s rallied the Rangers fans behind him recently, by essentially talking about a conspiracy against them, I don’t see how he convinces them to accept sanctions, even if he personally was inclined to do so. He has painted himself into a corner where now, if he wants his money at all, he has to fight, and keep on fighting. Without the written guarantee that the club would accept whatever the panel decides, without recourse to the law, I will be shocked if this matter doesn’t end up in the courts somewhere down the line, because I don’t think for one second he signed up to that particular demand.

I think the SFA backed down on this, the most fundamental matter of them all.

Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.

At an early stage in the Rangers crisis, a couple of people told me they thought the club would not play football for at least a year. I told them of all the possible scenarios that was the most unlikely, because I honestly could see no way back for them once they had gone. There is no precedent I am aware of, anywhere, for a football club taking a “year out” only to return. Certainly, in the context of the Scottish game I didn’t see how it could be done without creating one almighty shambles, or by bending the rules until the elastic snapped.

Yet I’ve since become convinced that it was the correct course of action. The club calling itself Rangers FC is still in a state of flux. The issues still surrounding it are enormous and potentially devastating. There are any number of ways in which the entire edifice could utterly collapse. The liquidators and HMRC could yet challenge the takeover, or the coming share issue. Craig Whyte may yet emerge and take a claim to the courts. The share issue itself could be an utter failure, leaving the club unable to meet annual running costs. All of this, even without the vast effects of the EBT case, which has the potential to wash the whole club away.

Had Rangers been out of the game for a year, these issues could have been properly explored, dealt with and put behind them, and the game as whole.

Of course, it’s just possible that the worst is over. It’s possible that this particular nuclear detonation, like the one is The Sum of All Fears, is an enormous “fizzle”, that the appalling destruction unleashed will not be on the thermonuclear level which could obliterate our hopes of a fresh start, of forward motion for the whole game. It might be that everything at Ibrox is hunky-dory, that this, all I’ve written, is the product of a febrile imagination, on the same level as the financial Armageddon nonsense we spent the summer hearing about.

It may well be, but only if the people who’ve been right all along have suddenly gotten it wrong. The evidence all points to something big, and bad, coming this way.

The smart folks will be hunkering down in their shelters for a while yet.

James is a co-editor of the Famous Tartan Army Magazine, latest issue out 17th October (digital, and free), featuring women’s football

http://en.calameo.com/read/001382993b7dff7feed1b

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

2,174 Comments so far

Lord WobblyPosted on6:09 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 13:44
4 1 Rate This
Just for a moment there, I thought Mr Jardine was turning his
sights on Duff and Phelps…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20091117
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bloomin’ sub-editors. The headline used to read

“Hurricane Sandy bears down on US”

but they’ve changed it.

Anything to curtail my comedic genius!

Just for that, I’m going to watch Channel 4 News tonight. 😉

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valentinesclownPosted on6:38 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Well worth a read for all fans. Members of MSM please read (and hide your heads in shame)

http://t.co/axNNFNSh

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broadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on6:46 pm - Oct 26, 2012


iceman63 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 14:43
================================================

Not just Murrayessque, it would be nuclear.

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coineanachantaighePosted on6:58 pm - Oct 26, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 15:58
—————————————–
Ditto and thanks for the article link. Though I think Will Shakeshaft suggested much the same thing about Julius Caesar’s self-image in his play of that name. Also I think it’s often seen that leaders who seem clever and ruthless on the way up, once on the top become careless due to a feeling of invincibility brought about by continual success (actually that’s partly what the article is saying).

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Blindsummit63Posted on7:12 pm - Oct 26, 2012


So for those of us over the pond, has the Thommo bit been on C4 news yet?

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easyJamboPosted on7:16 pm - Oct 26, 2012


oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says: Friday, October 26, 2012 at 16:29
===============================
Just to clarify about the John Wison assault on Neil Lennon

He was found not proven of “assault aggravated by religious prejudice”
He had offered to plead guilty to the lesser offence of “assault” but this was rejected by the crown.

He was found guilty of “breach of the peace”, for which he was sentenced to 8 months in jail. He served at least four and a half months, having been held since his arrest until he was sentenced.

Hearts banned him for life from Tynecastle immediately following the match in question.

——————————-

Coincidentally, there was another arrest at that game where a Steward was assaulted (punched) by a Celtic fan. That fan, James Addison, was fined £1,000. He was not even given a football banning order.

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/276172-celtic-fan-who-attacked-steward-at-tynecastle-during-poisonous-game-fined/

——————————-

I was at the game at which we had two incidents of people being assaulted while doing their job. In one case the perpetrator was fined and the other where the perpretator was found not proven of a more serious charge, yet was jailed for a lesser offence of breach of the peace by running on the pitch.

Whatever you think about what happened that night, I think justice was done as far as John Wilson was concerned. He was rightly jailed for the totality of what I witnessed. However, I’m not so sure that justice was done with regard to James Addison.

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posmillPosted on7:16 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Humble Pie says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 16:17
Thanks HP, very kind – don’t really have a tune to be honest, wrote it with a jaunty rhythm in mind, but I’m no musician. Something for the fiddle I’m thinking – tax fiddle even. :-).

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twopandaPosted on7:17 pm - Oct 26, 2012


From CQN [HoT]
…so the year 10 price would be £27.7m.
Where have we seen that number before? – oh dear

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coineanachantaighePosted on7:18 pm - Oct 26, 2012


oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 17:25

Yip looks like your right he did I picked it up wrong. He got sentenced for breach of the peace and not sectarian motivated breach of the peace. He also got aquited with assault which is strange when I think back to it. But there you go lack of research my end, looks like the Record has another reporter.
———————————————————————————–
I’m afraid not – you got it wrong but at least you were trying and not just making it up, so not good (poor?) enough for the Record I’m afraid.

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angus1983Posted on7:21 pm - Oct 26, 2012


smartie1947 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 16:08

Sad times re Alex Thomson’s blog on Channel 4 news.

For every complimentary comment, there are at least two castigating the article, it’s contents and even his existence, in the most unparliamentary fashion.
——
Yep – and they don’t seem to realise what they’re doing. Talk about self-incrimination.

blindsummit – can’t tell you, we’re all too busy watching the telly (though AT’s piece wasn’t trailed at the head of the programme).

bunny – aye, all interesting stuff. I’ve become increasingly interested in history as I’ve got older. I’d love to get Dr Who to give me a lift back to those days to find out the real story. Would like to go to a big race day at the circus maximus with a capacity crowd, too, while I’m there. 🙂

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bogsdolloxPosted on7:26 pm - Oct 26, 2012


TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 16:29
======================================================================

Is this Plan B and when will the share issue be abandoned?

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easyJamboPosted on7:27 pm - Oct 26, 2012


From the Guardian

Hearts to face Revenue and Customs in tribunal over £1.75m tax bill

• Claim relates to players loaned from FBK Kaunas
• Only small percentage of their wages was paid via Hearts

Ewan Murray

guardian.co.uk, Fri 26 Oct 2012 18.43 BST

Hearts will become the latest Scottish club to face Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in a tax tribunal, during a hearing scheduled for 11 days next month.

Hearts have been issued with a bill for £1.75m which HMRC claims is due in taxation for a batch of players on loan at Tynecastle from the Lithuanian club FBK Kaunas up to seven years ago. Those players routinely earned weekly salaries of thousands of pounds but only a tiny percentage of that was paid via Hearts.

HMRC claims tax on these full salaries should have been paid in the United Kingdom, rather than in Lithuania, where rates are considerably lower. Hearts argue the scenario was no different to any routine loan player arrangement, when wages can be subsidised by parent clubs.

At the time of the payments, Kaunas were controlled by Vladimir Romanov, the man behind the Ukio Bankas Investment Group (Ubig) which also owns Hearts. Hearts have referred to the tax case in their annual accounts dating back to year end 2009 but had previously failed to specify its exact nature, even upon questioning at their annual general meetings.

The Edinburgh club have stressed there is no comparison with the employee benefit trust scheme which led Rangers towards their high-profile tribunal with HMRC worth tens of millions of pounds, which is subject to an as-yet unconfirmed result, and that the football authorities are not in pursuit of them. Linked to the Rangers affair is an ongoing investigation by the Scottish Premier League regarding allegations that the Ibrox club illegally registered their players during their employee benefit trust years.

Hearts have launched a share issue seeking £1.79m from supporters in exchange for a 10% stake in the club; Tynecastle insiders are adamant the close proximity of that figure to the tax issue is purely coincidental. A brochure detailing the share scheme will go live online on Friday evening and will include the tax case as a potential risk. HMRC declined to comment.

Despite assurances in the football club’s annual report, Ubig is apparently now unwilling to meet any financial shortfall; Hearts are currently subject to a transfer embargo from the SPL because of the late payment of player wages.

Hearts’ present salary bill is thought to be in the region of £7m per year, with the club looking to halve that burden. A string of their highest-earning players, including Marius Zaliukas, Andrew Driver and Andy Webster, will run out of contract at the end of this season.

————————————————

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bogsdolloxPosted on7:28 pm - Oct 26, 2012


posmill says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 19:16

Humble Pie says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 16:17
Thanks HP, very kind – don’t really have a tune to be honest, wrote it with a jaunty rhythm in mind, but I’m no musician. Something for the fiddle I’m thinking – tax fiddle even. 🙂

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I tried singing it to Green Grow The Rashes O. It went as well as could be expected.

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coineanachantaighePosted on7:30 pm - Oct 26, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 19:21
——————————————-
You just want to get some bets on where you know the results in advance, that’s all … oh wait a minute! Are there records of the race course results in the old CM?

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angus1983Posted on7:32 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Well, the lassie who edited Phil’s book was reading it upside down.

I bet RM are apoplectic right now. 🙂

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angus1983Posted on7:42 pm - Oct 26, 2012


bunny – could do worse than bet on Diocles the quadriga charioteer … (well done to the Grauniad photographer for getting a pic of him in action). The highest earning sportsman of all time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug/29/diocles-roman-charioteer-usain-bolt

Reading further in that article, discover how Nero – a great fan of the Greens (!) – and his exploits in barefaced cheatery led to title stripping and competitions being declared null and void. There must be some modern parallels, but I can’t think of any offhand …

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wottpiPosted on7:42 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Looks like Vlad’s share offer will just about cover the HMRC bill if they loose. He may be mad but he isn’t one for being duped or caught out!!

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easyJamboPosted on7:44 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Re the Hearts Tax bill – Hearts do have an argument that it is common for the “Owning” club to continue to contribute to the payment the wages of a Loanee.

I hope that Hearts (or SFA/SPL) can produce contracts for the players involved that confirms what was being paid by Hearts.

On the other side of the coin, HMRC may have eveidence that Hearts were paying both the Hearts and Kaunas contributions. If that is the case then the FTT will go against them.

If the bill does eventually become payable, then what Vlad decides to do will become key. He has previously written off over £40M in debts, so one would think another £1.75M wouldn’t be a showstopper. However, he has made it clear that he now wants Hearts to be self financing, but there is no way that the club could come up with that money.

Administration or liquidation is not a great option for Vlad either as it would be him that would end up taking the hair-cut.

However, The big fear is that he sees it as a last straw and does walk away, selling Tynecastle as development land, being the only saleable asset of the club. It might raise around £8M, but the current debt to Vlad is more than £24M.

Whatever way it works out, it is not good news for the proposed share issue.

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SeniorPosted on7:52 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Alex Thomson on Channel four News powerful stuff.

The final comment “It is time for the decent Servco supporters to stand up” I wonder at times why these decent supporters are not prepared to speak out to save their club. I feel there are intimated and threatened also. There must be some reason why they will not put their heads above the parapet to save their club.
Why has all the legends gone to ground not a word from any of them. Are these legends also intimated. If one has a cursory glance at these yobs websites you quickly realise these yobs are not a small group they are running the show, there is absolutely no leadership.
There is no hope for this club as long as they yobs hold sway, The club will self destruct unless reasoned decent fans take charge – it may already be to late..

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SeniorPosted on8:26 pm - Oct 26, 2012


BTW The Fat Lady Has passed through the vestibule heading for reception.

Remember theme music from first Jaws film.

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john clarkePosted on8:36 pm - Oct 26, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 19:42

That’s me just getting back on to the blog.

I’ve read your posts on Caesar ( and monsieurbunny’s ) with enjoyment and interest.

I won’t feed back in ( wouldn’t be fair on the blog!) .

I haven’t been in the Forum for three years. I could spend a lifetime there, quite happily.

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SeniorPosted on8:37 pm - Oct 26, 2012


of course ‘intimidated’ is the word, must have a word with my secretary!

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posmillPosted on8:54 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Just an observation: Reading AT’s blog I was struck by how much Gary Allan goes out of his way to NOT directly accuse the Pied Pieper of lying about knowing the panelists identities. Having been subject to the consequences of an inflammatory statement, he is diplomatic/cautious/gracious enough to avoid subjecting Super Algae to the same. That takes some fortitude and strength of character.

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Danish PastryPosted on8:55 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Relatively short piece on Channel 4 news but hard-hitting. Why do we have to wait until 2012 to have this problem addressed on national TV? That piece illustrated the recent words of Wednesday manager Dave Jones (excuse the re-quote but they cannot be repeated often enough):

“If they – the decent, proper fans – just sit there and smile weakly, and look away, then this curse is going to spread and spread and we’ll be back into the bad old days. It feels we’re sliding back there already.”

No wonder so many people who went to Ibrox as kids turned their backs on this club. I don’t buy into the ‘it’s only a few fanatics’ line. The club itself has never done enough to combat this cancer. In fact, the current regime seems to have adopted intimidation as an official policy. Draconian measures are needed now. Points deductions, playing behind closed doors, and ultimately, suspension from participation in any league. If the club will not distance itself from these violent criminals then the football authorities should distance themselves from the club.

No wonder there’s been such universal enthusiasm for the club’s demise. I hope the broadcast will be a reality check for the fans who think that they just go along to see a game of football. Sometimes there is such a thing as guilt by association.

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Billy BoycePosted on8:57 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Alex Thomson and Mark Daly are due to appear at Napier University in Edinburgh on 19th November to discuss the media coverage of Rangers/Sevco. I see a few members of Follow Follow are hoping to go along and, ahmm, ‘lend their moral support’ to these two journalists.

This is another example of the predictable reaction of the ‘tiny minority’. Immediately they learn that someone is spreading bad news about their club they want to vent their spleen. Why is it that the poor old messenger always gets it in the neck? The white underclass at Ibrox (copyright G. Spiers) just can’t grasp the service that such intrepid reporters and bloggers provide in breaking the wall of secrecy and silence.

Ah well, hell mend them!

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spanishceltPosted on9:00 pm - Oct 26, 2012


TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 16:29

From CQN: (TBC)

“I have a Heads of Terms document for the sale and leaseback of Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park.

The purchase price for all three assets is £7.285m. In addition to this there is a £6.55m loan provision with 15% interest payable monthly (£985.5k annually). Initial rent for all three properties is £1.8m. The 20-year lease provides for upwards-only reviews every five years by either 2% p.a. or RPI, whatever is greater (so assuming RPI is less than 2% each year, after five years, rent would be £1.987m).

Annual costs for rent and interest would be £2.785m. Current season ticket sales are reported to be approximately 36,000 with a standard adult price of £286, income net of vat will be around £8.5m.

Although the top line figure for both sale and loan is £13.835, “the initial payment will be less 3 years rent [£5.4m] to compensate for the lack of guarantee covering the rental payments”, so monies paid would be £8.435m as the first three years rent is deducted from the total.

Crucially, rent is to be securitised against ticket receipts and the new landlord is to be granted “first charge on the season tickets”, so, just as Craig Whyte planned with Rangers, Sports Direct FC would collect ticket money before passing it on to the security holder.

If the buyer attains planning permission for residential properties at Murray Park, a provision releases the seller from having to repay the £6.55m loan and cancels future interest payments. This speculative clause would release the club from punitive interest repayments but would require them to find a reasonably priced ash park to train on. Perhaps the Albion Car and Training Park.

“The tenant” will be able to buyback the stadium. In year one the price would be £10m (they would still owe the £6.55m loan). The set price increases by 12% p.a. for 10 years, so the year 10 price would be £27.7m. Thereafter “price will revert to Market Value but will not be less than £20m”. The market value of Celtic Park is around £50m. There is no buyback provision for Murray Park or the Albion Car Park.

The deal is on the table but will not be signed before the share issue
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sorry to copy and paste the whole article, but can someone please explain just what it means, whos likely to be involved etc.

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:03 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Derren Brown: Apocolypse on Channel 4 now. Derren Brown tries to convince one man that there really are millions of Sevcovians roaming the earth.

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angus1983Posted on9:19 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Super Algae!! That’s the second laugh out loud moment of the day for me … the other watching Cleese and his “silly Eengleesh k-nigits” line in Holy Grail on the telly a minute ago. 🙂

I note that Gary Allan’s comments concerning Algae weren’t included in the television piece, rather the viewer being directed to the website for the full interview.

JC – seeing as the blog has gone strangely quiet … first time in the Forum for me this summer, after all these years. Overwhelming, and not nearly as busy as I expected.

We drive through Europe once a year, from here to the other end and back, but have limited ourselves to as far south as Florence/Pisa before now. One day, the bairn “Daddy, that’s really enough Roman ruins for one day!!” will appreciate what he’s seen.

Driving in Rome isn’t nearly as bad as it’s cracked up to be – Paris and Brussels are far worse. And Milan.

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killiemadPosted on9:30 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Following on from Craig Whyte’s admitted economy with the truth last week; I note in Roddy Forsyth’s article in the Telegraph that a member of the RFFF who met with Chuck is quoted as saying “The RFFF is, however, able to announce that it secured a commitment from Charles Green that he and his consortium will not be mortgaging nor disposing of any of the property assets of Rangers Football Club plc”

Now, it’s been difficult for me to keep track of all the name changes and everything, but isn’t Rangers Football Club plc nearly dead? Couldn’t this be more mis-speak? We haven’t sold the assets of Rangers plc, we’ve sole assets of Sevco….

I know, I know, I’m an amateur…

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angus1983Posted on9:30 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Tommy says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 20:57

This is another example of the predictable reaction of the ‘tiny minority’.
——

I have to wonder about this “tiny minority” that’s always referenced and gets the blame (not accusing you of doing so, Tommy).

We are all aware of the contents of the popular TRFC forums and blogs. We’ve seen the bile and wilful ignorance that gets appended to AT’s blogs. None of it is pretty. However, you’d have to assume that these are the more intelligent of the fanbase (who have worked out how to use a computer, can afford one, etc.).

If these are the ones who were near the front of the Ibrox intelligence queue, what in the name of Dog are the rest of them like?

Alternatively, I guess, the RM / FF / VB / blog posters could be the tiny minority, with the decent bears choosing not to participate in internet discussion and associate themselves with such behaviour.

Where have the reasonable TRFC fans we used to have around here gone?

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jean7brodiePosted on9:32 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Danish Pastry says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 20:55

Excellent post DP.
Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’

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killiemadPosted on9:34 pm - Oct 26, 2012


And now I see it’s an old article, but hey the point stands (just).

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OldcobrokemyheartbycheatingPosted on9:41 pm - Oct 26, 2012


easyJambo says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 19:16

Fair points all taken aboard. I still think Mr Wilson got off very lightly but there we go we all have opinions. As for Celtics support I was there that night and I agree we could have behaved better. But that incident did stoke the flames a fair wee bit. However, I digress and get back on track A Thomson what a show, hats off to you Sir a brave man.

View Comment

Robert CoylePosted on9:52 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Are hearts getting ready to do a sevco if they lose their own tax case?

Read bottom to top,

Company not club.

2h Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray
..and the tax will be payable unless the Company is successful in challenging the claims.”
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

2h Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray
“The Directors are attempting to robustly defend those claims but the burden of proof is on the Company….”Expand

2h Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray
..which, if it ultimately goes against the Company, could have a dramatically negative effect on the Company.”Expand

2h Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray
Hearts share brochure states: “Heart of Midlothian plc. are subject to a significant ongoing dispute with HM Revenue & Customs (“HMRC”)…

View Comment

ddmc999Posted on9:53 pm - Oct 26, 2012


He was found not proven of “assault aggravated by religious prejudice”

I know someone who was on the jury, they watched the footage in minute frame by frame detail, at no point did the bloke make any contact with Lennon, Thommo huckled the boy before he could land a blow. Out of all the witnesses the only person to hear any religious comment was a steward, no corroboration therefore not proven. If the PF hadn’t been out to make a name for themselves then a simple affray or attempted something would have worked.

Luckily Scotland’s catch all crime of “Breach” saved the day, 8 months for a breach is harsh by most standards.

What did CO bring to the table when he joined Hearts, is that why Romanov is silent or is he just apathetic.

View Comment

blackadder2Posted on9:54 pm - Oct 26, 2012


So if the Heads of terms is geniune, we are now getting towards the start of where Chuck is going to make his money, he sell the assets of Sevco to another company and then leases it back to the club for an annual rental, and interest payments, meaning the company buying the assets gets its money back and some, it would be interesting to know who they company buying the assets is, and who the shareholders are, anyone like to bet against Ticketus and the GEF and Chuckie?

View Comment

blackadder2Posted on10:04 pm - Oct 26, 2012


The share issue of Sevco will hopefully now be a pig in a poke, as there is surely going to be too much uncertainty over who owns the assets and who is going to own them in the future, even if the purchased of shares is a heartfelt purchase for the fans, surely even they will not be gullible enough to be taken for mugs a second time.

View Comment

john clarkePosted on10:16 pm - Oct 26, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 21:19
‘..first time in the Forum for me this summer,..’
—-
As you say, a quiet night.

I’ve been in the forum many times over the last 50 years. Always in the company of others ( who did not have the excuse of being bairns!) who didn’t share my interest, so always under pressure to to move on to other places.

More generally, If you have not already read Tom Holland’s ” Rubicon”, allow me to recommend it.
Wonderful and absorbingly readable sweep through Roman history, although it does, it seems to me,presuppose some previous study or knowledge of the principal events.

But back to the business of the blog, before my Friday night Skype to Australia to see the grandbairns!

View Comment

ordinaryfanPosted on10:25 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Danish Pastry@20:55 I think the reason it has taken so long is because this is the 1st time an outsider like Thommo has taken an interest and ran with it. I would expect a few from down south have had a look over the years and it has made their head spun. It is nonsensical to those who live in it, never mind having a look from outside. Plus I doubt very much they believe most of what they hear about Scottish football. And if they ever corresponded with or met “journalists” from up here they would be told it was all lies and exaggeration.

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Lord WobblyPosted on10:28 pm - Oct 26, 2012


AyeReady72 @Aye_Ready72 13m
@Seventy2_Mag A call for the RFFF to be used to fund a fans PR
department.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Or…

…why not save your money?…

…by simply behaving?

Just a thought

View Comment

billyj1Posted on10:30 pm - Oct 26, 2012


I notice on the website of the First Tier Tribunal that decisions issued on 18th and 19th October are now available to view and download, but no sign yet of the Rangers decision.Since the decision was made known to the solicitors involved last Friday, the 19th, might we be a wee bit closer to its publication than we originally were led to believe?

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doontheslopePosted on10:36 pm - Oct 26, 2012


I think that the number of Rangers/Sevco fans who are violent/sociopathic/anti-social/bullying/ignorant/threatening is indeed a minority of the total number of their fans.

But I also think its a world record number for a minority.

View Comment

Father MurphyPosted on10:42 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Just watched the Alex Thompson piece on channel 4 and I feel this is the best chance we have ever had to make the significant changes that Scottish football, no Scotland, has been crying out for. AT has highlighted our problem that the msm have avoided like the proverbial plague.

Having grown up in Ayrshire, moved away for twenty five years, then came back in 2005 I thought things had got slightly better. I was wrong. If anything, things have got worse. Living in England, it was fifteen years before I learned what my best friend’s creed was, because it never crossed either of our minds to ask. It just did not matter. The English just don’t care about creed. However, some of them do have a problem with racism so they are far from perfect. I know the moderaters try and steer us away from this subject but we must recognise that it is a major part of the problem.

I have many friends that support Rangers and the consequences of this fiasco, is that we no longer talk about football. They show no appetite for discussion and I dont want to upset my friends. I’m sure many of you will have experienced something similar. We keep hearing that it is a minority of the support that give Rangers a bad name. Well where are the silent majority ? Is it not about time that they made there voice heard ? Anytime you look at the comments sections anywhere, apart from here, there is no sign of this silent majority that we hear so much about.
If only they would stand up and be heard. Personally if this silent majority could suddenly become vocal and accept that they have done wrong, show some contrition and rid themselves of this cancerous baggage that has forever been present, I, after they have worked there way through the leagues, would welcome them back wholeheartedly .

The changes that we require in Scottish football are pretty obvious. A complete clear out of the old guard, one body governing all, and the man to lead this is imo Turnbull Hutton.

View Comment

corsicacharityPosted on10:43 pm - Oct 26, 2012


From CQN: (TBC)

“I have a Heads of Terms document for the sale and leaseback of Ibrox, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I wish Corsica was here to translate this!

Based solely on what I picked up from him, here is my interpretation…

Someone (let’s assume a rich entrepreneur from Buckinghamshire or maybe an entrepreneur from Yorkshire) is going to pay sevco £13.835m to purchase Ibrox stadium, Murray Park and the Albion Car Park. However, £6.55m of this will be a loan from the entrepreneur to sevco repayable at an eye-watering 15% interest rate (presumably there are capital tax advantages to making part of the purchase price a loan). Assuming the interest is only payable on the capital borrowed (ie, £6.55m) and not compounded, sevco would be paying £982,500 in interest over 20 years making a grant total of £7,532,500.

Sevco will also pay an annual rent to the entrepreneur of £1.8m for five years then a minimum of £1.98m for the next five years, a minimum of £2.17m for the third period and a minimum of £2.39m for the fourth period. That makes for a grand total of £41,700,000 over 20 years:

5 x £1,800,000 = £9,000,000
5 x £1,980,000 = £9,900,000
5 x £2,170,000 = £10,850,000
5 x £2,390,000 = £11,950,000
Total = £41,700,000

In other words, to get their grubby hands on £8.435m now, sevco are prepared to hand over £49,232,500 over the course of the next 20 years. Unless, of course, they decide to purchase back the properties…but that is pretty much unheard of in the property world.

In any case, seems corsica’s figures were not that far out: £15m property value and rental of £1m for Ibrox alone.

There has been chat about the value of Ibrox with the figure of £80m getting a lot of publicity. Remember this is almost certainly the DRC value which is complete nonsense (corsica posted a useful guide to valuation on RTC which I can re-post if required). It is the existing and alternative use values that are required to see its true value. These were provided for D&P by Lambert Smith Hampton – getting hands on that report is key here to prove alienation.

View Comment

ianagainPosted on10:43 pm - Oct 26, 2012


wjohnston1 says:

I notice on the website of the First Tier Tribunal that decisions issued on 18th and 19th October are now available to view and download,
==================================
WJ

As a fan of the FTT website over a year now. I know only 2 things for sure

1. It will appear when it appears.
2. The wee bit that gives the verdict will say appeal dismissed/refused
3.Or it may get legendary procedure status
enjoy

View Comment

bogsdolloxPosted on10:44 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Senior says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 19:52

Alex Thomson on Channel four News powerful stuff.

The final comment “It is time for the decent Servco supporters to stand up” I wonder at times why these decent supporters are not prepared to speak out to save their club. I feel there are intimated and threatened also. There must be some reason why they will not put their heads above the parapet to save their club.
Why has all the legends gone to ground not a word from any of them. Are these legends also intimated. If one has a cursory glance at these yobs websites you quickly realise these yobs are not a small group they are running the show, there is absolutely no leadership.
There is no hope for this club as long as they yobs hold sway, The club will self destruct unless reasoned decent fans take charge – it may already be to late..
================================================================

The “decent supporters” that I know bought season tickets for the first time in years. I mean decent as in non bogoted supporters who have been Rangers all their days otherwise they wouldn’t be my pals.

AT hits the nail on the head when he asks why the decent leader never emerged – answer is, and he leaves it open to Scots to answer, that the lumpen are too many at Rangers to be led by anything less than triumphalism and sectarianism drummed up by the likes of Dingbats & Co. But Scotland is bigger than those who hate. There are more of us who want to build a decent Scotland.

View Comment

SeniorPosted on10:52 pm - Oct 26, 2012


One thing that baffles me following AT’s blog tonight. Why do the police not move on these despicable sites. They spew naked bogitry, hate, threats to people lives etc. It beggars belief that a moderated site can get away with this. What are the police paid for anyway! It should be the easiest thing in the world to shut these sites down. I though the role of the police was to protect people from the likes of these maniacs, but perhaps I was wrong, they probably have more important things on their mind.

View Comment

john clarkePosted on11:01 pm - Oct 26, 2012


I imagine that we will shortly hear that Cenkos and the appointed NOMAD will be quietly and discreetly withdrawing from their arrangement with CG.

Even in the world of Finance, one’s ‘good name’ has to be preserved!

Of course, dodginess on the part of Administrators does not necessarily blacken ( even by association) the character of a man who was once an innocent, super-fast ( in plimsolls!) boy runner and ,later, a wonder- goalscorer.

But in the great cloud of unknowing that now enshrouds all that has happened, the job of trying to produce a Prospectus that bears no approximation to the reality of the new club’s financial status and prospects and trying to stay out of jail for doing so, would tax the skills of the most proficient writer of legalese-accountancy- sales-speech.

The IPO is well and truly gone.

No institutional investor would look twice CG’s new football club as any kind of investment opportunity.

As expected, Cenkos will take their fee for advising Charles to seek , a la Hearts, a private raising of ‘capital’ by offering shares only to the Rangers’ family. And get out, breathing a sigh of relief.

No tedious detailing of private company information required.Just a ‘ save your club’ appeal to the gullible.

And, sadly, lots of people will be conned.

View Comment

corsicacharityPosted on11:02 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Another thought strikes me…

Subtract the amount of loan from the actual cash which sevco would receive and you get £1,885,000. In other words, someone is about to hand over less than £2m to gain the title deeds to Ibrox, Murray Park and the car park and gain the right to milk sevco for nearly £50m over the next 20 years!

Wake up for god’s sake!!!

View Comment

ianagainPosted on11:06 pm - Oct 26, 2012


The dudes at George Sq will have been garnering many snippets of nasty stuff lately with regard to a pre xmas scoop of the unwashed. Arsonists similarily in the frame.

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ianagainPosted on11:10 pm - Oct 26, 2012


John C

Your right its an emotional purchase. They will just hand over their dough.

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bangordubPosted on11:12 pm - Oct 26, 2012


An interesting take from this side of the pond on the tactics being employed.
http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/10/26/strange-happenings-scotland-after-the-busting-of-rangers/

View Comment

bogsdolloxPosted on11:16 pm - Oct 26, 2012


corsicacharity says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:02

Another thought strikes me…

Subtract the amount of loan from the actual cash which sevco would receive and you get £1,885,000. In other words, someone is about to hand over less than £2m to gain the title deeds to Ibrox, Murray Park and the car park and gain the right to milk sevco for nearly £50m over the next 20 years!

Wake up for god’s sake!!!
==================================================================

I have copied your warning to James Traynor at the Daily Record and although he seemed to mumble and slever a bit and had his mouthful at the time i think he promised to look into it.

He also said that those terms of trade looked a bit one sided and wondered if the parties to the transaction weren’t connected in any way. If not, he said it looked like an act of desperation.

View Comment

doontheslopePosted on11:17 pm - Oct 26, 2012


An accountant friend has had to endure my freely given opinions on the Govan goings on this summer. Scotland isn’t in his core geographical bean countery, so he kinda endures my blether.

I think I pushed him over the edge this evening. I was in mid “McCoist is a…., Green said this…, Campbell Ogilvie is definitely a………..”, when my friend flipped.

He said very dismissively, “Look, Doontheslope, each person involved in this is one of three things-

1. Criminal.
2. Negligent.
3. Stupid.

End of.”

It was a moment of clarity for me. As I meandered my way home, I began to slot different people involved in all of this, into the three different categories.

I started at number 3. Stupid. The names which came into my head were people like John Greig, Chick Young, Stuart McCall.

No 2, the negligent. The secretary at Spartans FC, possibly the chairmen of the SPL clubs, the editors of The Herald and Scotsman, and sports chief at the BBC.

Many other names were in category 1. Criminal.

But the vast majority of people involved in this saga went into the category, the criminally stupid.

View Comment

obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88)Posted on11:23 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Surely to god the Sevco fans will have learned their lesson? Just because the truth (yet to be confirmed or denied I realize) comes from a source they don’t like doesn’t mean it’s false! I cannot believe that there are not sensible Sevcovians who truly understand what is going on at their club yet they seem quite happy going along with Chuckles’ fantasy?

I highly doubt Chuckles share issue will go ahead in any case. Will be interesting to see if he breaks his silence this weekend, after all we all know he likes it when the microphones and cameras are in sight.

View Comment

corsicacharityPosted on11:27 pm - Oct 26, 2012


bogsdollox says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:16

corsicacharity says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:02

Another thought strikes me…

Subtract the amount of loan from the actual cash which sevco would receive and you get £1,885,000. In other words, someone is about to hand over less than £2m to gain the title deeds to Ibrox, Murray Park and the car park and gain the right to milk sevco for nearly £50m over the next 20 years!

Wake up for god’s sake!!!
==================================================================

I have copied your warning to James Traynor at the Daily Record and although he seemed to mumble and slever a bit and had his mouthful at the time i think he promised to look into it.

He also said that those terms of trade looked a bit one sided and wondered if the parties to the transaction weren’t connected in any way. If not, he said it looked like an act of desperation.
*******
Maybe Mr Traynor (being a dim sort) might take note that whoever is the other party to the Heads of Terms, will be risking one year’s rent only in order to be able to fleece sevco for 20 years’ rent plus interest on the loan. That’s 5% risk for 2,000% profit – not even wonga charge that much.

View Comment

angus1983Posted on11:31 pm - Oct 26, 2012


john clarke says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:16

I’ve been in the forum many times over the last 50 years. Always in the company of others ( who did not have the excuse of being bairns!) who didn’t share my interest, so always under pressure to to move on to other places.
——

46, and only ever been to Rome airport before. Mind you, that was on the way to Libya, where I visited Cyrene and Apollonia. At that time I was the bairn, with my own Dad dragging me round. I vividly remember parts of it, though. 🙂

Aside from the bairn (5), I had the missus – who thought it all very nice but really didn’t want to hear that this happened here, and that happened there, and Augustus nicked those bits from over there to stick on here, and this is where Mark Antony said this and Caesar put a statue of Cleopatra etc etc. She, being a bit of a geologist, was more interested in where that piece of marble there might possibly have come from … 🙂


More generally, If you have not already read Tom Holland’s ” Rubicon”, allow me to recommend it.
——
Thanks for that. Always on the lookout for such recommendations! Much appreciated.

(Apologies, everyone else.)

View Comment

ianagainPosted on11:32 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Ive commented on here in RTC land about the link between all the players in this game and Parklands Country club.
Wonder how relationships are progressing amongst the previously “cosy” Old Firm members now.

View Comment

paulsatimPosted on11:33 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Senior says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:52
3 0 Rate This
One thing that baffles me following AT’s blog tonight. Why do the police not move on these despicable sites. They spew naked bogitry, hate, threats to people lives etc. It beggars belief that a moderated site can get away with this. What are the police paid for anyway! It should be the easiest thing in the world to shut these sites down. I though the role of the police was to protect people from the likes of these maniacs, but perhaps I was wrong, they probably have more important things on their mind.
=================================================

alex thomson ‏@alextomo
Info received tonight about the Rangers hate-site we featured will be passed it to Strath Police who told #c4news they take this seriously.

View Comment

angus1983Posted on11:34 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Senior says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:52

One thing that baffles me following AT’s blog tonight. Why do the police not move on these despicable sites. They spew naked bogitry, hate, threats to people lives etc. It beggars belief that a moderated site can get away with this. What are the police paid for anyway!
——

I thoroughly agree, Senior. It doesn’t take much of a read through the RM posts to wonder how they get away with it. And there are worse places than RM.

They do have a “sticky” posts warning users not to post threats, sectarian comments and so on – it appears they have been asked by some authority to do that, so someone must be keeping an eye on them.

Doesn’t seem to be working though.

View Comment

angus1983Posted on11:42 pm - Oct 26, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:28

AyeReady72: A call for the RFFF to be used to fund a fans PR department.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Or…

…why not save your money?…

…by simply behaving?

Just a thought
——

A third laugh for me today. Fit’s the world coming to? 🙂

That reads like one of those Viz “Top Tips”. You know the sort of thing:

“SAVE a fortune on laundry bills by giving your dirty shirts to Oxfam. They will wash and iron them and you can buy them back for 50p.”

Good work, Wobbly.

View Comment

timtimPosted on11:45 pm - Oct 26, 2012


The worst Rfc* site I have seen is Follow Follow and its Commander in Chief is Mark Dingwall .
How do our MSM treat this site?
Do they ignore it ? Do the condemn it ?
NO
They invite Mark Dingwall into their TV studios(and our homes) as a spokesperson for Rfc* giving him a position of credibility and respectability while advertising his haven of hatred and then the likes of Mr Spiers takes his pal Dingers for a drink .
Our MSM are feeding with the herd

View Comment

manandboyPosted on11:49 pm - Oct 26, 2012


=================================================

alex thomson ‏@alextomo
Info received tonight about the Rangers hate-site we featured will be passed it to Strath Police who told #c4news they take this seriously
___________________________________________________________________________

as if . . . .

View Comment

geordiejagPosted on11:52 pm - Oct 26, 2012


The Heads of Terms (HoTs) doc is significant but we shouldn’t get carried away by it, or at least not yet. I am not a lawyer but I have been involved in drafting a number of commercial agreements for my employer. In many but not all of those cases, a HoTs doc is produced once the parties have reached an agreement in principle and sets out in reasonably plain terms (i.e. with the minimum of legalese) the key points and legal framework of a POTENTIAL subsequent legally binding agreement. The HoTs may be signed off by both parties but only to the effect that they will work in good faith to iron out the details and seek to come to formal and legal agreement. Also, the final HoTs is of course preceded by one or more drafts put up by either side.

It is unclear from the CQN article if we are talking about ‘agreed’ HoTs or ‘draft’ HoTs in this case. If these are agreed HoTs then the significance may be that they indicate that a sale and leaseback agreement has been reached in principle but it does not necessarily mean that an agreed sale and leaseback will go ahead in practice. It will be very interesting if it comes out who the prospective purchasing party is.

IMO they are a bit less significant if they are a draft HoTs proposed by the other party as CG could claim that they were unsolicited, but they become much more significant again if they have CG’s or his lawyers’ paw prints all over them.

I’m happy to be corrected by any of our resident legal experts if my narrow experience of HoTs doesn’t reflect their wider use.

View Comment

bogsdolloxPosted on11:53 pm - Oct 26, 2012


corsicacharity says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:27

bogsdollox says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:16

corsicacharity says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:02

Another thought strikes me…

Subtract the amount of loan from the actual cash which sevco would receive and you get £1,885,000. In other words, someone is about to hand over less than £2m to gain the title deeds to Ibrox, Murray Park and the car park and gain the right to milk sevco for nearly £50m over the next 20 years!

Wake up for god’s sake!!!
==================================================================

I have copied your warning to James Traynor at the Daily Record and although he seemed to mumble and slever a bit and had his mouthful at the time i think he promised to look into it.

He also said that those terms of trade looked a bit one sided and wondered if the parties to the transaction weren’t connected in any way. If not, he said it looked like an act of desperation.
*******
Maybe Mr Traynor (being a dim sort) might take note that whoever is the other party to the Heads of Terms, will be risking one year’s rent only in order to be able to fleece sevco for 20 years’ rent plus interest on the loan. That’s 5% risk for 2,000% profit – not even wonga charge that much.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I tried to alert Jimbo to this but he’s in Intensive Care suffering from a meat overdose. Trouble is the doctors don’t know if its Lamb induced or caused by the little known condition called sookingmurraysboaby. I would let youse know how he’s getting on but I suspect youse don’t care.

£2m you say- that’s almost within the range of a google eyed predator plus pals. It could well have been £5m but thanks to the Double D’s ity isn’t possible.

View Comment

campsiejoePosted on12:00 am - Oct 27, 2012


geordiejag @ 23:52

Whilst Heads of Terms in themselves are binding, they do set out intent
If the CQN post is correct, it shows the mindset of those running Sevco, and their intentions
If I were a Sevcovian, I would be just a little bit worried

View Comment

bogsdolloxPosted on12:02 am - Oct 27, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:34

Senior says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:52

One thing that baffles me following AT’s blog tonight. Why do the police not move on these despicable sites. They spew naked bogitry, hate, threats to people lives etc. It beggars belief that a moderated site can get away with this. What are the police paid for anyway!
——

I thoroughly agree, Senior. It doesn’t take much of a read through the RM posts to wonder how they get away with it. And there are worse places than RM.

They do have a “sticky” posts warning users not to post threats, sectarian comments and so on – it appears they have been asked by some authority to do that, so someone must be keeping an eye on them.

Doesn’t seem to be working though.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I suspect the police collect the Bams names from these sites but lets face it the real Bams who orchestrate this stuff are well known to the police and nothing happens. Probably because its more useful to watch them and understand their connections and their real agenda but that bit isn’t done by the Police.

View Comment

campsiejoePosted on12:02 am - Oct 27, 2012


Should have read “are not binding”
Too much vino I fear

View Comment

corsicacharityPosted on12:10 am - Oct 27, 2012


geordiejag says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:52

The Heads of Terms (HoTs) doc is significant but we shouldn’t get carried away by it, or at least not yet. I am not a lawyer but I have been involved in drafting a number of commercial agreements for my employer. In many but not all of those cases, a HoTs doc is produced once the parties have reached an agreement in principle and sets out in reasonably plain terms (i.e. with the minimum of legalese) the key points and legal framework of a POTENTIAL subsequent legally binding agreement. The HoTs may be signed off by both parties but only to the effect that they will work in good faith to iron out the details and seek to come to formal and legal agreement. Also, the final HoTs is of course preceded by one or more drafts put up by either side.

It is unclear from the CQN article if we are talking about ‘agreed’ HoTs or ‘draft’ HoTs in this case. If these are agreed HoTs then the significance may be that they indicate that a sale and leaseback agreement has been reached in principle but it does not necessarily mean that an agreed sale and leaseback will go ahead in practice. It will be very interesting if it comes out who the prospective purchasing party is.

IMO they are a bit less significant if they are a draft HoTs proposed by the other party as CG could claim that they were unsolicited, but they become much more significant again if they have CG’s or his lawyers’ paw prints all over them.

I’m happy to be corrected by any of our resident legal experts if my narrow experience of HoTs doesn’t reflect their wider use.
**********
100% agreed (I do a lot of these on behalf of charities) but whether or not they are agreed or draft is, in my opinion, moot. The worry (for sevco fans) is that this sort of thing is being discussed and, in any case, you don’t get to the stage of writing them up formally and in such detail unless you are pretty much agreed on everything.

View Comment

buckfastswallierPosted on12:17 am - Oct 27, 2012


i had a dream, smith, mccoist and murray in court, accused of doping and stripped of all titles.

View Comment

john clarkePosted on12:32 am - Oct 27, 2012


Father Murphy says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:42
‘.. there is no sign of this silent majority that we hear so much about.’

The silence of the ‘silent majority’ is indeed something of a mystery.

Can it really be the case that thousands, and tens of thousands, of ordinary guys are, fundamentally, at one with the Bomber Browns ,the Sandys, the more sleekit Sally and the infinitely more questionable Campbell?

That they share the ‘ascendancy’ ‘watp’ mind-set?

That ‘Rangers’ are indeed ‘victims’ ? Guilty of nothing other than of being loyal to themselves and their proud heritage and their unchallengeable right to win?

I think not.

But the alternative explanation is equally repugnant: that there is such a culture of fear as to make it wise for the ordinary, decent family-man supporter to avoid drawing unpleasant attention to himself by raising his moderate voice to ask sensible and serious questions.

I’m not at all well-versed on the subject of relationships between opposing factions of same-team supporters in times when their club faces a crisis.

All I know is that when Celtic had their difficulties, there was absolutely no question of fans being afraid to air their views at supporters’ club meetings or in ‘Celtic’ pubs or clubs, in opposition to different views from other fans of the club.

As I said a day or two ago, the Rangers case is something of a sociological phenomenon, deserving of serious academic study into a ‘sporting culture’ which has profound ramifications into political and business and Press influence.

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m8dreamerPosted on12:48 am - Oct 27, 2012


M8Dreamer

Are there any RangersTribute Act supporters out there that can see through the potential money grabbing scam by Chuckie!
Surely there must be some supporters with an ounce of commonsense that sees there club and its future is literally being sold down the river.
The boat is currently sinking fast and if Rangers Tribute Act supporters dont realise soon, it will go down like the Titanic.
They may not like what the Internet Bampots and a few media journalists are saying, but they are rapidly approaching their “Armagedon”.
Once it sinks it will take everyone down with it.

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john clarkePosted on1:29 am - Oct 27, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 23:31
‘.She, being a bit of a geologist, was more interested in where that piece of marble there might possibly have come from … :)’

As it happens, I have a piece of what I believe might be marble, filched from Trajan’s forum in 2004, right here in front of me on my desk.

I pick it up, and wonder whether it may have been part of a wall against which some tired Roman arse might have leaned, or part of the cladding of a pillar that a Gaulish domestic slave might have put his hand on while chatting to another slave as they went about their shopping duties for some bast8rd up on the Capitoline.

If it is marble, it’s probably from Carrara, the nearest ‘quality’ marble quarry to Rome, I think.

But marble or not, Carrara or not, I hold in my hands a bit of something that ordinary labourers/craftsmen held in their hands as they built the market-place.

Little did they know that about 1850 years later a wee guy fae Parkheid would be answering a question relating to Trajan and Hadrian in his higher history exam.

Very off topic, I suppose, except perhaps in the reference to marble.

Sorry about that.

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mrgreenwhytebrownPosted on2:30 am - Oct 27, 2012


doontheslope says:
Friday, October 26, 2012 at 22:36
54 1 Rate This
I think that the number of Rangers/Sevco fans who are violent/sociopathic/anti-social/bullying/ignorant/threatening is indeed a minority of the total number of their fans.

But I also think its a world record number for a minority.

54 – 1 (Copyright Acknowledged)

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panbreidPosted on2:39 am - Oct 27, 2012


The head of terms document is a Good laugh, who was last het with the deeds? Craig? Duff and phelps? Ticketus? So, if Charlie gets a succesful float, he Will Not only take 20m from rangers Fans, he Will burden them with 40m of fresh debt. I have little doubt that in the beginning murray and some other degenerates kittied up and they are the original investors in the vct. A 60m payback is the leased they deserve.

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