In the aftermath of the recent election and whilst those of us who voted one way are still hoping that our way continues to count, the horse trading has begun. No matter your politics, the fact that a party wholly representing one part of the United Kingdom is suddenly having such a massive influence, coupled with a lack of detail in the public domain over their negotiations, causes people some nervousness; because of the nature of the DUP, for some they claim it terrifies them.
Can we imagine if football was run that way? Can we imagine if it wasn’t?
Having people who have one focus deliberating and influencing your life has always been an issue at the core of the United Kingdom. Proud Scots do not like the power of the English, some English have begun to resent the growing independence of the Scots, the Welsh have turned out to have their own independence and as for the Irish; the Trouble has always never been far behind.
The recognised method of dealing with these issues has now become to allow, where possible, organisations within the domain of the domicile to grow on their own. For some it sows the seeds of an increasing independence as the locals realise they can do it for themselves. It also does, though ensure the organisation is close to its own people and is truly representative of them.
In Scotland, and throughout the last election, the big two – Conservative and Labour parties – have suffered under the accusations of being a “branch office” of their London centric big sister. It has led to people making choices based on the assumption that, at times, neither of the leaders up here have autonomy. When there are policies that will be unpopular in Scotland, they say, the high heid yins in Edinburgh have no choice but to toe the party line.
We do not like that thought.
Nor should we.
I suggested that football has a similar issue. And so. It does…
The views and opinions of the Scottish fans who last Saturday threw up their hands in joy and held their heads in despair all within 90 seconds or so suffer from that lack of representation. As deals are done in secret and “announcements” made over innovations and changes they are collectively silent through the funded organisation established to represent them; at best that organ is muted.
Never has it been more important for the Scottish football fan to feel the importance of their view being heard. Never has it been more important as Project Brave is being undertaken, chairmen are being fined £3,000 for having a bet, we look as though we are going to miss out on another World Cup, expansion of our cup competitions is growing apace, play offs and promotions have delivered their verdicts and handed their budgets to managers who bemoaned last year it was hard, that one of our two giant clubs seems unable to keep itself out of the court room whilst supplying the accused, the defence lawyer, the pantomime villain and a circus or at least two premiership clubs appear to be on the verge of administration.
Supporters Direct – Undemocratic?
The time has come to ensure that the voice of the footballing nation does not come from around the Isles but around the corner. Whilst the work of Supporters Direct has brought a great deal of support and aid to a number of clubs and supporters groups, the fans need something that is much more than a branch office of a bigger organisation.
In the recent past, SD have seemingly been forced to be more visible but let us not be fooled, if you are an ordinary fan, SD have no place for you. You cannot join, you cannot vote, and you cannot influence; so there is not much point. Building a democratic and fair vocal chord for Scottish football fans needs commitment from the bottom up to engage, enlist and enrich the chorus and chanting of disapproval or support for Scottish football.
That’s why I am in the SFSA – isn’t it time for the Scottish Government to take the bull, grasp the thistle and make the clear choice of removing money going all the way to London and giving it to a fans based organisation that represents them here in Scotland?
We think so… don’t you?
Join the SFSA today! It’s free
@bigpink
i think you’re right, SD deal is neither a big win nor big loss for TRFC.
There are two clear winners though.
1. Mike Ashley, sells his Sevco shares for a profit and gets the merchandising sales going again – in the process paying his outstanding debt.
2. Dave King. Gets rid of two problems using other people’s money. Firstly the fans pay off the Spors Direct court case by buying last years stock and secondly Ashley shareholding removed, again with fan money plus a third party.
TRFC have probably gained next to f all. The Sevco fans will be out of pocket though.
Nacho Novo never played for Airdrie. Fernandez was the only real success story from Archibald’s doomed experiment although Antonio Calderon and Jesus Sanjuan went on to play for Kilmarnock, and Javier Sanchez Broto also had a short spell at Celtic. This was one of the more scandalous episodes in Scottish football. A club, already in severe financial difficulties, was blatantly being exploited for the benefit of one individual. Archibald sold his scheme to the fans on the basis that for every foreign player successfully moved on, an equal or better replacement would be brought in. He reinstated the diamond on the jersey and renamed the Shyberry Excelsior to “New Broomfield”, and the fans lapped it up, especially as the product on the park was more than acceptable. Some of them saw through it, of course, and were duly vilified for their trouble. The story also involved players on alleged pocket money wages, implausible plans to have Airdrie games shown on Spanish TV (for which the club would somehow receive all the proceeds) and a mounting string of unpaid bills. At one stage Archibald was locked out of the stadium by the administrators until a fans’ group handed over £15K to bail him out – an egregious waste of money as the wheels were already coming off. Supposedly, in the final days of his preferred bidder status, he rang round a load of clubs desperately trying to raise funds by offloading his players. Airdrie managed to struggle on for another season before finally going into liquidation. I don’t recall the football authorities taking much of an interest at the time (at least not publicly), although after Archibald was shown the door, the club was allowed to postpone some fixtures while the administrators sought a new bidder. SPL secretary Iain Blair even confirmed that Airdrie would be eligible for promotion to the top flight despite being in administration.
Re Loading a team with imports – thanks to Stevo for the reminder above re Airdrie – I’d forgotten about the Archibald “experiment” .
Dundee (under the Marrs) tried a similar tactic with Ivano Bonetti as manager & big money imports such as Caniggia & Ravenelli amongst others & that ended in administration too .
The one major success I can think of (I’m going back a bit !) was DUFC “Scandinavian” team of the ’60’s under Jerry Kerr – 5 or 6 really good players hailing from Sweden,Norway + Denmark who weren’t phased by cold , wet winter nights on god-forsaken pitches .
I take it Pedro knows his signings but it has to be a gamble whether they come off or not in the more frenetic Scottish Premiership .
STEVO
JUNE 26, 2017 at 15:14
…The story also involved players on alleged pocket money wages…
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That was Airdrie in 2000.
I’ve heard (no doubt scurrilous) stories that certain signings for a well-known club this summer are in a similar situation, with several criteria requiring to be met on a weekly/bi-weekly basis (matchday pool, starting eleven, points gained etc. etc.) for their salaries to conform to the fans’ expectations of several thousand pounds a week.
I also understand that this may be based on previous experience with ‘big’ signings who don’t play enough, can’t adapt, lose form or get/are injured rather than out & out cheapskatery.
zerotolerance1903 June 26, 2017 at 15:00
There are two clear winners though. 1. Mike Ashley, sells his Sevco shares for a profit and gets the merchandising sales going again – in the process paying his outstanding debt.
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Ashley did not make a profit on the sale of his shares. He made a loss of approx £350k.
He purchased 3m shares for £1.5m in Oct 2012 and 4.265m shares for £850k in Sep 2014.
PADDY MALARKEYJUNE 26, 2017 at 12:22 6 Votes
Would the RIFC directors’ loans in June be used to cover the wages ,etc of the players who wouldn’t contractually be paid through June and July ?(and registered with the SFA ?). Possibly repaid from the income from Thursday night and shirt sales ?
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the players who wouldn’t contractually be paid through June and July ?
Could these be the players who have been asked to train with the under 20’s and the club have told them to find new clubs.Bit of a situation if they don’t or can’t find new clubs and there wages have to start getting paid again.A big wage for training.
all just a guess on my part as along with PM’s post i have read something somewhere about 48 week deal’s.
CLUSTER ONEJUNE 26, 2017 at 19:22
My understanding is that (some/all) players are not paid for down time in the summer . I have seen this printed many times ,yet never queried or refuted . Doesn’t make it true, though . Which makes it difficult to understand how the players are being paid and if a new contract or addendum had to be registered at the SFA . Or maybe there is nothing to see here .
EASYJAMBOJUNE 26, 2017 at 16:40
Ashley did not make a profit on the sale of his shares. He made a loss of approx £350k.
He purchased 3m shares for £1.5m in Oct 2012 and 4.265m shares for £850k in Sep 2014.
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I did read that somewhere also that he made a loss on the sale of his shares.
But i just can’t see a guy like Ashley happy with a loss. Maybe he has made a profit somewhere else like Advertising to even things out
EASYJAMBOJUNE 26, 2017 at 16:40 10 Votes
zerotolerance1903 June 26, 2017 at 15:00There are two clear winners though. 1. Mike Ashley, sells his Sevco shares for a profit and gets the merchandising sales going again – in the process paying his outstanding debt.=====================Ashley did not make a profit on the sale of his shares. He made a loss of approx £350k.
He purchased 3m shares for £1.5m in Oct 2012 and 4.265m shares for £850k in Sep 2014.
======================
Fair enough, I only saw the second purchase at less than 20p a share when I looked it up.
In the overall scheme of things a £350k loss on the shares will be no big deal for him and I’m sure he’ll be delighted to be out. He’d have lost more if he’d been diluted last year.
As as others have said he’ll probably have made it up in the merchandising.
Dave King – They all picked me up wrong.
Quite a bit of backing down going on here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/06/26/rangers-chairman-dave-king-stung-accusations-disparaged-celtic/
One has to wonder why.
HomunculusJune 26, 2017 at 22:12
Dave King – They all picked me up wrong.
Quite a bit of backing down going on here.
Just read that article and cannot believe the crap he speaks. Obviously minus wee Griffiths etc i think the story has backfired on him, some of the sevco fans were not happy.
However, like the rest of the league is the 55 guff a thing between celtic and his circus act. i mean amounts to the same logic.
So what is the most succesful team in the world based on, can only be the 54 titles before going down the tube. No other club in the world can compete for national trophies so you can rule out old tropjies like Glasgow cups and league cups. Therefore is the most succesful team in the world a two horse race this guy is an abso;loute rocket the only thing he has is wealth which he has obtained through dodgy business however he has nothing between his ears.
he has set himself up big time and i believe he has now realised it is time to prepare the escape route if this season gets off to a bad start. Aberdeen and other teams will be reeling at this put down and will want to show what happens when you disrepect opponents. Knock out on the horizon, i am betting Hibs to finish second this season.
Ah, now I think I’m beginning to understand Dodgy Dave and his wacky theories.
As a new company (newco – capiche?) we’re unlikely to catch up with Pacific Shelf 595 Ltd, who had an unfair 18 year start on us.
As a club, we’ve amassed 145 years of unbroken history (cough), punctuated only by the liquidation of a meaningless holding company, amid wild and misguided speculation about our club, spawned by the fertile imagination of mullions of haters. The High Court Judge who called me a glib and shameless liar got it wrong as I am a glib and shameful liar!
As an institution – we have narrowed the gap quite considerably over the last couple of years and are now back where we belong – in the 1690s.
BIGBOAB1916JUNE 26, 2017 at 23:01
HomunculusJune 26, 2017 at 22:12 Dave King – They all picked me up wrong.Quite a bit of backing down going on here.
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He’s carrying out an argument with himself…..Out loud !. Like a mad-man shouting at buses. It would be a helluva lot more informative asking about CF. In fact it should be a condition.
“Tell us about CF, and we will print the rest of your bus-shouting, or you get nada”. Total radio silence……Tell him you will be doing a filler piece on @The Oshore Game instead. There is more than enough usable evidence out there to start rattling cages with.
However, getting to the bottom of things doesn’t appear to be the main objective of the SMSM. …. Not one hack in Scotland wants to be the one to smash things wide open, from what is an ideal position. There lies the real conundrum. .Not one hack. Not one edition…………….Why not?
Why would any news outlet prefer to run with the inane ramblings of a lunatic, when the lunatic has a much better story to tell?
I note that the ‘six million dollar man’, from January this year, Barry McKay is now reported to be training with the U20s at Murray Park.
A man clearly on his way out despite having a year of his contract to go. They clearly want rid given he was not signing a contract extension and Pedro does not (or has been told not to ) fancy him for the future. (So much for nurturing and developing your own).
It could all end up with him leaving for a development fee type payment.
I appreciate football is all swings and roundabouts but why are we subjected to the utter nonsense of the Ibrox PR machine and the compliant MSM?
And more to the point how many Bears swallow that kind of pish and then forget what was said a few months later?
If the answer from our friend Ryan is ‘Not many’ then why are so many people spending time and effort putting forward such a pretense?
New podcast
David Low on Ashley, King, TRFC – and comedy 🙂
Has anybody picked up on TRFC only registering 23 players for their UEFA League ties because they haven’t got enough qualified ‘development’ players to make up the requisite 25?
From that self-excusing oportunity gifted to King by the Telegraph:
“By that I meant that, a year or two years ago, we would not have been able to react as we did last season by changing the management, spending money on a new manager, paying compensation, bringing him in early and, in fact, getting the quality of players that he wanted. To me there were two aspects of all of this and one was to give Celtic complete respect for how far ahead they were last season, but the second was that – as an institution – we have narrowed the gap quite considerably over the last couple of years.”
Narrowed the gap? Does he mean narrowed to 39 points? Or does he mean narrowed financially because TRFC have ‘splashed the cash’ for the umpteenth time in their short history?
So far, TRFC have ‘narrowed the gap’ about as successfully as Gretna did, before their liquidation, and in a similar manner by spending money they didn’t have.
But yes, TRFC have narrowed the points gap during the five years of their existence, from their starting point of the fourth tier, an impossible gap to quantify, to a mear 39 points, so well done them; but financially? Which is the all important factor in their ability to close the gap further. Well, they might have a squad of better players than when they first kicked off against Brechin City, a squad that was borrowed from Rangers, but the club’s debt has risen, I’d estimate (for we’ve not seen recent audited accounts) by around 300%, against Celtic’s continued profit making and increased, out of sight, asset value! That is one gap that has continued to increase, and it did, according to King, increase by £1.5m during this past month as further loans were required to meet ongoing costs.
It’s just struck me that King, in his SD deal announcement, made out that the ‘resignationgate’ claim had disappeared. Could it be that the £1.5m in loans was to pay an out of court settlement? One, for the sake of his continued hubris, King preferred to paint as a personal victory!
HIGHLANDER
JUNE 27, 2017 at 07:57
==============================
Just in case anyone doesn’t know about the Pacific Shelf thing.
Pacific Shelf 595 is a company set up by Fergus McCann in order to keep the name The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited. It was incorporated in October 1994, purely for that purpose. The name change was in December 1994.
Celtic PLC was incorporated in April 1897, the company was originally called The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited. It changed it’s name to Celtic PLC in December 1994.
Basically Fergus changed the name of the original The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited to Celtic PLC. He also bought an off the shelf company at the same time, and changed it’s name to The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited. He felt that keeping that name, and the heritage was important. This avoids anyone else using that name.
HOMUNCULUSJUNE 27, 2017 at 10:59 Rate This
HIGHLANDERJUNE 27, 2017 at 07:57==============================
Just in case anyone doesn’t know about the Pacific Shelf thing.
Pacific Shelf 595 is a company set up by Fergus McCann in order to keep the name The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited. It was incorporated in October 1994, purely for that purpose. The name change was in December 1994.
Celtic PLC was incorporated in April 1897, the company was originally called The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited. It changed it’s name to Celtic PLC in December 1994.
Basically Fergus changed the name of the original The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited to Celtic PLC. He also bought an off the shelf company at the same time, and changed it’s name to The Celtic Football And Athletic Company Limited. He felt that keeping that name, and the heritage was important. This avoids anyone else using that name.
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Yes, Yes but which one is the Holding Company?
Big Pink June 27, 2017 at 10:01
New podcast
David Low on Ashley, King, TRFC – and comedy
========================
I’ve just listened to the podcast and I think you were right to suggest that David has previously been (and still is) equivocal. I sensed that there was a reluctance to accept that Rangers financial situation could have improved over the past 12 months.
David repeatedly said that we can only rely on the audited accounts from June 2016. Those accounts, like any others, are just a snapshot of the financial situation on one specific day. Those accounts were already four months out of date when they were published and are now 12 months out of date. When the next set of accounts are produced, then they will also be 4 months out of date.
The interim report, as limited as it was, suggested that the financial performance had improved. We know that they sold 42k+ STs, had an average home league attendance of 48,893, reached two semi finals and finished 3rd in the league. Those factors alone should ensure that their income would be up significantly. Yes, their costs (mainly wages) will also be up, but I think these will be fully covered by the increase in turnover, with a subsequent reduction in annual losses to be funded.
David also seemed reluctant to accept the suggested 27.5p share price as being correct. The maths is pretty simple. Club1872 and Wolhardt were both reported to have contributed £1m to the share purchase. If each party bought half of Ashley’s shares (3,632,500) @ 27.5p the total comes out at £998,937.50, which seems pretty unequivocal to me.
None of us know what the changes to the Retail deal will mean in financial terms, but any income that the club gets from it going forward is more that they have been getting over the last two or three years. Even if they just get £500k or £1m net profit, then it is new money.
David was right to flag up the potential “Cold Shoulder” as a risk, but given that it hasn’t been used extensively, I think it is very difficult to assess what the actual damage to King or the club will be. As an offshore resident, I don’t think the impact on King would be severe. I also think that if/when the case comes back up at the CoS, should King express an intention to reduce his shareholding, then I think that would be accepted by the Court.
The bottom line is that I do think that their finances are improving. Yes, they are still light years behind Celtic and are likely to remain so for the foreseeable future, unless there is a step change in their on field performance, including Europe. Contrary to hopes of some, I can see them getting to a break even position in the not too distant future.
BOGS DOLLOX
pacific shelf obviously,as shelves hold things
These movie type adverts are still making my screen jump to them every time they restart.
EASYJAMBOJUNE 27, 2017 at 11:49
Excellent summary and one I tend to agree with.
There have been far too many false dawns and many hurdles overcome for everything to suddenly go tits up. Folks seem to forget that while the running costs are high, a full 51k seater stadium generates a good income.
Despite all the talk of splits in the board, from the recent reports the key stakeholders still seem to be happy putting in the required cash to keep the lights on.
The short term issue for T’Rangers is how best to deal with the matter of the soft loans so as to head off any future potential problem of FFP. I for one can’t see how some of those involved can keep pumping money in for the long term and FFP will mean, ideally, that they should not be able to do so anyway.
Other income streams are required to make up any shortfall even if a debt/equity swap is forthcoming.
Soem cash from the SD deal this season and a new retail and sponsorship deal next season along with a further raid on the 1872 funds may be enough to keep things rolling along. However I doubt it will be significant enough to allow a financial challenge to be made to Celtic.
The next issue is what happens if they reach a point of sustainability this coming year or next but, on the pitch, still end up trailing Celtic by a significant margin, battling it out for positions 2-6 and not making any headway in Europe.
While T’Rangers may end up having more spending power that does not necessarily result in having the excessive means to blast the likes of a competitive Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, and St J out of the water.
If no major progress has been made come January will there be money in the bank to bolster the squad? Will Pedro be given more time or will it be another PLG?
As with the oldco it will be the overstretching themselves on players costs in an attempt to be all conquering, that may be the new clubs downfall.
The hubris from the like of King needs to stop and Douglas Park’s sensible prediction of a slow and determined rebuild needs to be the order of the day.
The club would get a lot more kudos if they just shut the f*** up and got down to business.
Nothing wrong with having aims of chasing down Celtic and Euro glory but we just don’t need to hear about it every day, especially when the assumption is from some that, by some miracle, it is all going to happen within a matter of weeks!!
Reading today in the Telegraph, of the furious backtracking, by Dave King, re his comments, about 9 in a row, and how this is purely a matter of interest to the “O*d F*rm”, and doesn’t concern any other club’s, and their supporters?
One wonders, what do Aberdeen, Hearts, St Johnstone, and the other SPFL clubs, actually think about this, and his comments?
Are they seething with rage, at the dismissive way, that DCK regards them? Are they contect, with their supposed place, in the Scottish football food chain, which is simply, to make up the numbers, and be secondary, to the natural order of things, which is the duopoly, of the Glasgow clubs?
I’d like to know, I’d like to hear their full and unexpurgated views, I’m pretty sure their fans would as well? Until we actually hear these views, then the suspicion is that these clubs are content, with their place, in the food chain.
We need much more disputation, around the substantive issues in the game. We need individual clubs, instead of toeing the party line, to vociferously & stridently, stand up for their individual clubs and supporters, and challenge the presumed status quo.
Most importantly, we need the clubs, to stand up to bully’s like King. We need his views challenged, ridiculed, and held up to full scrunity, especially as they are all playing by the rules, paying their bills, and living within their means, unlike some, we could mention?
However, I’m reminded of a line from The Magnificient Seven uttered by Eli Wallach, “if God hadn’t wanted them sheared, he wouldn’t have made them sheep”…..
Cygnus X-1June 27, 2017 at 15:52
While I fully sympathise with what you say, I doubt the clubs are going to do what should be, and with someone else, like, say, Vladimir Romanov, would definitely be the case, the SFA’s job to bring him into line.
The SFA’s blind eye that has been turned towards the people running a club at Ibrox is cemented in place by the SMSM, and I am sure that any club chairperson, who has been suitably disgusted by King’s latest insult, will see no value for his club, or self, in speaking out. The fiasco surrounding Green’s ‘bogitry’ rant, and the litany of other less than respectful Ibrox statements, will have shown everyone just how futile, and possibly self-harming, doing the SFA’s job for them will undoubtedly be.
At this time, too, clubs will want to keep the SFA onside, with signing registrations and the complications they can bring, and, perhaps just as important, the media who can have (still) an influence on possible recruitment and ST sales! I think very few club officials will be prepared to get into a public slanging match with the most protected club in the game’s history, especially when there’s actually nothing to be gained by it.
I know I may bring the name up quite often, but I think Romanov is the closest we can get to an outspoken/foot in mouth club spokesperson to draw comparisons with those at Ibrox and how they are treated by the SFA and the SMSM. What Dave King has been saying shows just how close to the truth (and hence the severe punishment meted out) Romanov’s ‘Mafia’ and ‘Monkeys’ rant was!
ALLYJAMBO
hearing what you say mate,but all it takes is every other club to say gtf to regan and doncaster,we will not revert to old ways,romanov said it but was hounded,fergus mcann got shot of farry,this can be done but celtic can’t do it alone,teams that missed out on europa cup should be screaming about it as should their fans,but they all say that’s the way it is in scotland……………………….f*****g change it,money talks,remember 2012,let your chairman know you won’t accept it………rant over
Just listened to the David Low podcast, isn’t it good to get an alternative view (an alternative from the usual media suspects) from someone somewhat more in the know than the run of the mill supporter?
Anyway, it got me thinking, all this bluster from King – apart from the crassness of what he says, there can be little doubt that, while lifting the spirits of the club’s supporters, it also raises the level of their expectations, which has been one of the main problems at Ibrox for a very long time, and led to the demise of the previous club, and has kept the present one on the brink of insolvency from it’s inception. What’s more, a potential £2m of new capital has been paid to Mike Ashley for his shares. That’s £2m that won’t be buying shares in any future rights issue!
The thing is, they are operating on a ‘pay now, get the money in later’ basis, and they have lost £2m of what they might reasonably expect to get before they get it!
WOTTPIJUNE 27, 2017 at 15:36
If no major progress has been made come January will there be money in the bank to bolster the squad? Will Pedro be given more time or will it be another PLG?
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Or could it be another MW promised cash to spend in january. Then later we heard he was not given the cash he wanted as king did not rate him,and king was told by MW when he signed one day he wished to manage in the EPL, so king said MW was not committed to ibrox and it all ended in tears
tonyJune 27, 2017 at 17:48
Fergus McCann got rid of Farry because Farry had done something that McCann could prove was dishonest if not actually fraudulent. It was something that was incredibly bad, and not easy for the SFA to weasel out of. Here, we have a man blethering sh*te, who knows he can get away with it, because he, and his club’s former loudmouths, have all got away with it before. The SFA should act, but it’s something that won’t carry any suitable penalty for the club, or King, even if a complaint led to action. The clubs all know this. There is a complacency in Scottish football that has led to clubs accepting this sort of thing, don’t ask me why, but each and every case that has led to SFA/SPL ‘action’ has shown the clubs that their complacency is justified, for no one dare stand up to anything representing ‘Rangers’ (and I include Farry in that), and certainly not without proof of some despicable act (and even then…)
ALLYJAMBOJUNE 27, 2017 at 16:53
Ally,
I know why, club board’s won’t speak out, in light of DCK’s comments, and on the SFA, in general. I know, it is, for many of the reasons, you mention in your post, but my point is, that, it is wrong, utterly wrong, and it proves my point, that perhaps, the other SPFL clubs, are content, to be merely regarded, as fodder, for the “big two”?
Now, if this is so, it makes me puke. We’ve debated on here for years, the behaviour of Celtic, to all the various events, before and since the Ibrox implosion. We’ve fiercely criticised Peter Lawwell, and the Celtic board’s, seemingly lackadaisical & intransigent approach, but come on, where is Stuart Milne & Ann Budge? Where is Steve Brown, and the other clubs, let’s hear their voices?
Because otherwise, it seems to me, that normal service will be resumed, it’ll be back to where we belong & all that crap.
The entire Scottish game, seen through the prism of two clubs only. Therefore, it’s imperiative, that we hear clubs, their boards, and most importantly their supporters, speaking out against this, and speaking up for their teams.
ALLYJAMBO
as i said aj,fans tell chairmen they ain’t buying season books or merchandise,chairmen will eventually speak out,money talks to them.i’ve not giving a penny to scottish football since this crap began,it might not bother celtic but clubs with little fan base need every penny they can get,i’m probably just thinking out loud
FFS Regan and Doncaster are puppets , your clubs are agreeing to all that is going on. Me I walked away years ago,the game is rigged your clubs are rippng the piss out of you.As soon as it becomes a business its over. I remember wallace Mercer coming out with “football was a business” and i went ballistic but he was being honest the @#_=.Oh and I am sure drugs are rife in Scottish football.
theredpillJune 27, 2017 at 20:34
‘…….Oh and I am sure drugs are rife in Scottish football.’
_____________
Your mention of drugs in Scottish Football reminds me to update the blog on that very question.
Folk will remember that it was alleged that the SFA blamed their poor record of dope-testing ( was it only 8 tests last season or so?) on the fact that UK Anti-doping had withdrawn their funding? And that I had emailed Anti-doping to ask whether they had ever funded the SFA, and if they had, why they had withdrawn that funding?
I emailed several times, getting only automated acknowledgements.
So I wrote a brief letter to the CEO:
“Nicole Sapstead,
Chief Executive Officer,
UK Anti-doping,
2-6 Salisbury Square,
London, EC4 4Y 8AE
Dear Chief Executive Officer,
I have written several emails to UK Anti-doping.
I have received several automated replies, acknowledging receipt.
I have not yet received a substantive reply to my query.
If I tell you that my first email was sent on 15th February 2017 you will readily appreciate that it is not acceptable that at 26th May I have had no reply.
Would you please be so good as to have someone simply answer my query?
Thank you.
Yours faithfully, ”
Last Tuesday, I phoned.
The very nice woman who answered [ she had the same surname as a former colleague of mine who was a right aggressive person, so we had a laugh about that] found my emails, and found that my physical letter had been passed to someone ( perhaps the CEO’s PA) who was off sick at the moment, and that she couldn’t say what the state of things was.
She promised to try to find out and phone me back.
So far, no phone call.( Although I’ll double check with Mrs C)
Next step?
Why, what else but to seek the aid of my constituency’s elected representative in the Westminster parliament?
Just what is the difficulty in answering a simple question: did the SFA ever get public money to help in the anti-doping effort? And if they did, did they use it properly? And was that financial help withdrawn? And if it was, does that fact excuse the utterly meaninglessly few dope tests carried out?
And carried out, apparently, in the belief that , of course, there’s no drug problem in Scottish football!
Self-certification rules!
The people who have so lied to us about UEFA licensing, and the nonsense of TRFC being RFC 1872, to expect us to treat anything they say as being in any way true is like asking us to believe that Dave King is the truth fairy
Joking apart TheRedPil @20.34 I’ve been intrigued by this mantra of the 10% shareholding club1873 lot that reads something like “those of us that value success on the field equally with business success”
(Its words to that effect anyway).
In some ways you can see where they’re coming from – that if success means making a loss then as long as said loss is funded and FFP rules are simultaneously followed as every other club has to then one could excuse the hypothesis that said success should have the best chance of returning the club to profitability. That, in its purest sense, is what I think they are trying to say. Essentially “speculate to accumulate.”
It doesn’t take a 7yo with a slide rule and abacus to understand where it might all go udders up of course. Simply put, what if improperly funded expansion simply doesn’t yield the success. The profits go (potentially) but the original investment remains to be repaid. I say potentially here because kudos to the Ibrox support, the thing that should dictate at least the opportunity for said profitability, it hasn’t waivered despite the clubs’ problems.
Secondly it doesn’t take a fan of 40 years experience to understand how such a supposed ‘snakeoil’ business model, could be jumped upon by the Whytes, Greens and Kings of this world to divert what they would describe as profits (we tend to call it all moveable cash) which, of course, is nothing of the sort.
And finally, you require an understanding particularly of subscribers to an 1872 type model what they are supporting. Success on the field to be considered ALONGSIDE the balance sheet. That still doesn’t mean that business success is in any way secondary to winning. I’m not convinced a large proportion of fans fully understand that distinction yet and, if I’m honest, in this brave new world where liquidation doesn’t count, why should they?
Sorry to keep posting about the problems the movie adverts cause, this is just to say that at the moment there are no adverts of this type displaying…. and the site is behaving perfectly.
5 minutes later……
oh dear, the adds have started, and problem persists. Am I the only person seeing this? It makes the site unuseable
Agree, ACF. It was okay for a day or so just past, but it’s back this morning as bad as ever!!!
JOHN CLARKJUNE 24, 2017 at 13:46
Just as JC predicted:
https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/future-judgments.html
Wednesday 5th July 2017 9:45am
Giovanni June 28, 2017 at 12:29
JOHN CLARKJUNE 24, 2017 at 13:46
Just as JC predicted: https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/future-judgments.html
Wednesday 5th July 2017 9:45am
========================
Looks like I’ll have to give the beach a miss one morning next week when I’m on holiday.
Does anyone know if the appellant and respondent are given advance notice of the ruling. Not necessarily the full reasoning, just the bottom line.
GiovanniJune 28, 2017 at 12:29
I noticed PMGB tweeting about it earlier, and my first thoughts were of how it might be reported by the SMSM in the event the appeal is rejected. With the inevitable omission of any call to strip titles from that source (the SMSM), I wonder if any ‘journalist’ will have the guts/integrity to announce it as definitive proof that Rangers cheated!
For some reason (bias/fear) the proven fact that, by using the DOS scheme, Rangers cheated, has not, to my knowledge, received the blanket publicity it deserved, with the WTC receiving scant attention in some clearly orchestrated way. This cannot, must surely not, be the case should the result of the appeal go against Rangers.
Might I suggest that, as from next Wednesday, should justice prevail and the appeal be unsuccessful, that we all ask the usual suspects when they are going to publish that Rangers cheated, asking again and again, on twitter or by any other means, until they do?
I acknowledge that Rangers cheated regardless of the BTC outcome, but there can be no hiding place from the fact if the result, either way, is given the honest coverage, and analysis, it undeniably deserves!
Yip, looks like all these squeaky bums are gonnie get a lot squeakier,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34118126
PORTBHOY
JUNE 28, 2017 at 13:00
Phortbhoy,
on my browser the link gave me the dreaded “404 page not found”. I got the list of EBT recipients using:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34118126
I’ve never understood why this happens. ?
HomunculusJune 28, 2017 at 12:52
‘..Does anyone know if the appellant and respondent are given advance notice of the ruling. ‘
__________
For what it’s worth, homunculus, a year or so ago, in a ‘saga’ related case, I asked the clerk of court what the practice is. He said that usually Counsel for the parties would be telephoned on the day , or a few hours before,the court was going to make its ruling.
AJ @ 12.54
Worth saying of course that if the appeal succeeds, which it may, we will get it shoved it down our throats about wanton damage, fly kicks etc etc regardless of the WTC also.
Yes, the DR today getting in its retaliation first;
“Oldco Rangers set to discover ‘big tax case’ fate next week
…
The court’s decision will not affect the regime currently in charge at Ibrox and related to the Murray Group companies, including RFC 2012 plc.”
====================================
Translated as:
according to Keef, it’s got nothing to do with Rangers, [aka TRFC].
Would be very surprised if the SFA will have anything to say on the decision either.
Those not on holiday will be on ‘Hampden lockdown’ next week – i.e. playing dominoes in the bunker.
“Trusted and Respected to Lead”…my @rse !
Good piece from the Scottish Review by Marice Smith on Whyte fraud trial. Doesn’t pull his punches
http://www.scottishreview.net/MauriceSmith290a.html
STEVIEBCJUNE 28, 2017 at 16:46 5 Votes
Yes, the DR today getting in its retaliation first;
“Oldco Rangers set to discover ‘big tax case’ fate next week…The court’s decision will not affect the regime currently in charge at Ibrox and related to the Murray Group companies, including RFC 2012 plc.”====================================
Why not?
Half of them on the board of trifc were on the board of rfc when (if the case goes against them) if they have been found guilty of cheating.
Half the board should be ashamed,resign and say sorry for what took place when they were on the board of rfc
JOHN CLARKJUNE 28, 2017 at 14:14 4 Votes
HomunculusJune 28, 2017 at 12:52‘..Does anyone know if the appellant and respondent are given advance notice of the ruling. ‘
————–
alex thomson – they give everyone a week’s notice in public – they even tweeted this
DOM16 at 17.12
That is a decently factual account. I was worried when I read the first para, but it was okay. Coincidentally, I noticed today on the Bears Den there’s a piece in their Boardroom & Financial section headed “WHY THE CRAIG WHYTE NOT GUILTY VERDICT WAS WRONG “.
Unfortunately, their B&F section needs you to be a member and have posted 25 times before you can read what it says and, of course, I’m not prepared to do that. I’d love to read it though!!!
Cluster OneJune 28, 2017 at 18:34
‘…alex thomson No – they give everyone a week’s notice in public – they even tweeted this’
_______
I was speaking of the actual judgment /decision, (not the date n which it is to be announced) being given to the parties before the first public announcement of it, so that they know the result before press and public.
25 posts would be a lot just to read a response saying ‘Just cos’ or ‘the ASA said so.’
SmugasJune 28, 2017 at 14:41
AJ @ 12.54Worth saying of course that if the appeal succeeds, which it may, we will get it shoved it down our throats about wanton damage, fly kicks etc etc regardless of the WTC also.
_______________
There is so much that shows how wrong such claims would be, so very much, but one thing worth pointing out should you end up in a discussion with someone who would push the victim argument is:
They lied to HMRC! and obviously believed they were involved in tax avoidance, perhaps evasion, for why else would they lie?! Even if their demise was solely down to the Big Tax Case, then they would only have themselves to blame, for all else being equal (ie no other financial issues), they might well have survived if only they’d been honest!
As RTC has oft said, ‘They Died Because They Lied’!
Always remember that simple fact. Then, even if the bear you are ‘debating’ with doesn’t get it (too thick, or wantonly thick), you will have won the ‘debate’, without the need to mention side letters, WTC, overspending, unmanageable debt…
JOHN CLARKJUNE 28, 2017 at 18:50
Cluster OneJune 28, 2017 at 18:34‘…alex thomson No – they give everyone a week’s notice in public – they even tweeted this’_______I was speaking of the actual judgment /decision, (not the date n which it is to be announced) being given to the parties before the first public announcement of it, so that they know the result before press and public.
—–
my mistake
Now i don’t know if this AD is to promote a rangers back in europe? Or it’s more of an AD for a sports channel that it is saying it is back in europe.
A bit of a subliminal message perhaps.
hope pic works
CLUSTER ONEJUNE 28, 2017 at 18:25 16 Votes
STEVIEBCJUNE 28, 2017 at 16:46 5 Votes Yes, the DR today getting in its retaliation first;“Oldco Rangers set to discover ‘big tax case’ fate next week…The court’s decision will not affect the regime currently in charge at Ibrox and related to the Murray Group companies, including RFC 2012 plc.”====================================Why not?Half of them on the board of trifc were on the board of rfc when (if the case goes against them) if they have been found guilty of cheating.Half the board should be ashamed,resign and say sorry for what took place when they were on the board of rfc
————————————————-
Irrespective of what comes out next week, they cheated. They hid side letters, made undisclosed payments and ran roughshod over the rules that everyone else was playing by. It saddens me that they have managed to conflate the two issues but in my mind anyone who was involved in the cheating should have long ago been banished by the SFA.
Some hope.
nawlite
June 28, 2017 at 18:43
“Boardroom & Financial section headed “WHY THE CRAIG WHYTE NOT GUILTY VERDICT WAS WRONG “.”
———————————————————————
No way of knowing, but this might be the piece.
http://imperialbears.co.uk/2017/06/20/why-the-craig-whyte-not-guilty-verdict-was-wrong/
With the Supreme Court EBT decision imminent, it’s important to remember that, regardless of the outcome, it has already been established that Rangers cheated all its competitors. That Rangers cheated is not in doubt. All that remains to be established is the precise magnitude of that cheating and how the football authorities deal with that cheating, if indeed they do.
Lest we forget, at the beginning of the Big Tax Case process, Rangers conceded guilt in making illegal payments to five players. In the context of Spartans being expelled from a cup competition for the heinous crime of omitting a signature/date from a form, and other clubs suffering expulsion from competitions for fielding ineligible players, indeed even having unused substitutes on the bench, it is inconceivable that any sanction less than title-stripping should be applied in Rangers case. Put simply, if the Supreme Court decision goes in Rangers favour, the mainstream media will declare it an unqualified victory, which is akin to the accused in a murder trial being found guilty of only killing five victims out of the eighty-odd people he shot at, and therefore being acquitted!
Remember too that Rangers had ‘previous’ for tax evasion, when the DOS EBTs paid to De Boer, Flo and Moore were declared illegal. Rangers QC advised them they had no option but to hold their hands up to cheating back then, yet remarkably they received no football punishment for that cheating.
Rangers also withheld PAYE & NIC for 9 months before entering administration, owing many millions to creditors in addition to HMRC. They were found guilty of offences of such a magnitude, they were deemed just less serious than match-fixing, for which they received a derisory fine which went unpaid for several years.
Rangers previously lied about the existence of side-letters and deliberately failed to provide these and many other documents despite statutory demands for them. The City of London Police raided Ibrox and removed documents that Rangers insisted didn’t exist. Rangers deliberately obfuscated, evaded, obstructed and delayed enquiries into their tax affairs, then ironically blamed HMRC for taking so long to decline a CVA. Bear in mind these verifiable facts were divulged by various official sources such as the police, courts and tribunals, rather than simply being the jealous ramblings of a ‘hater’, as Rangers fans would have you think. Despite that catalogue of misdemeanours (and a myriad of other examples of bringing the game into disrepute during the past five years) being public knowledge and freely available to ‘the blazers’, no subsequent action ensued.
Whatever the outcome of next week’s EBT announcement, be prepared for the Scottish media to circle the wagons and orchestrate a massive propaganda exercise in its attempts to mitigate any potential damage heading the way of the club playing out of Ibrox.
I’ve not posted on the site for many months having contributed regularly previously. I have thought carefully about the repercussions of next Wednesday’s announcement and suspect many will disagree with what I’m about to state, but here goes:
i would rather see the Supreme Court reverse the CoS decision than for them to uphold it but there to be no consequences, which is what I fear will happen. If the Supreme Court find against HMRC then I will reluctantly accept that Rangers’ use of EBTs was within the letter of the law by the proverbial bawhair. It will of course leave the wee tax case and the five EBT recipients referred to above by Highlander unresolved. For the CoS decision to be upheld but ignored will forever leave a foul taste in my mouth.
BRYCE CURDYJUNE 29, 2017 at 06:31 i would rather see the Supreme Court reverse the CoS decision than for them to uphold it but there to be no consequences, which is what I fear will happen.
—————————————————————————————————
Bryce I for one don’t believe there will be “consequences” from the likes of the SFA either way because they have moved on along with the chairmen and the clubs.
I do want the appeal to fail however and indeed for HMRC to win.
My reasons are bigger than football.
I just want to live in a country where tax is transparent, fair and collectable.
I’m no expert but I’d say there is a substantial upside to HMRC on winning this test case and stopping this particular wee avoidance wheeze.
FinlochJune 29, 2017 at 08:41
Well said, Finloch. A successful appeal will be a defeat for all honest taxpayers, which would be far, far worse than the continued dishonesty of the SFA, SPL, SPFL and the SMSM over the wrongdoings of a now dead football club.
Another exclusive, from “an inordinately well informed source”
The BBC disagrees
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40415394
Bryce CurdyJune 29, 2017 at 06:31
‘…For the CoS decision to be upheld but ignored will forever leave a foul taste in my mouth.’
____________
The foulest taste, of course, was left by the monumental cheating of Rangers Football Club (IL), as Highlander sums up in his post ( HighlanderJune 28, 2017 at 23:55).
Even if the monies used by the arch-cheat Murray are adjudged by the UK Supreme Court to have been legitimately acquired by skilful use of badly drafted tax legislation, the football cheating was on a scale that deserved as punishment nothing less than expulsion from Scottish Football and the stripping from that Rangers club of all ‘sporting’ titles and honours unsportingly won due to that cheating.
I agree with the view expressed by Finloch when he says “I do want the appeal to fail however and indeed for HMRC to win.”
The fact that that would allow rodent-types to walk away laughing at their ‘smartness’ in ripping us all off would not remove from them the indelible stain of being liars in sport.
And, of course, whether Murray was a tax cheat or not,the greater liars in Football Administration who sold their souls to the devil of SDM’s personal hubris, and sold the soul of Scottish football to the other low-lives (now rewarding themselves on the back of the lie propagated by them to the effect that ‘TRFC Ltd’ is the same club as SDM’s/Craig Whyte’s ‘Rangers’, will go to their graves knowing that they are deservedly among the most dishonoured beings presently living in Scotland.
The Herald reporting of the pending BTC ruling (my italics)
“The UK Supreme Court is hearing an appeal from the club’s”oldco” – which remains in liquidation – over a Scottish judgement that it and its former players and employees owe tax on £47m worth of loans.
HMRC first made the claim against the club, which eventually resulted in its corporate entity, Rangers FC PLC, being forced in to liquidation when it was unable to reach a settlement.
Liquidators for the company, now named RFC 2012 PLC, have always disputed the debt.”
I really feel like writing to them but am certain that it will be filed in the nothing to see here file, move on!!!
woodsteinJune 28, 2017 at 23:22
nawlite June 28, 2017 at 18:43 “Boardroom & Financial section headed “WHY THE CRAIG WHYTE NOT GUILTY VERDICT WAS WRONG “.” ——————————————————————— No way of knowing, but this might be the piece. http://imperialbears.co.uk/2017/06/20/why-the-craig-whyte-not-guilty-verdict-was-wrong/
This article is so wrong and seems to be written by a school kid. Wow this mob can be told and sold anything if they believe this crap. Are they not aware the full trial can be read online every statement made and every lie exposed was exposed in the trial. This is a must read for light humour and entertainment
A recent story from a financial publication with my highlighting;
“A self-appointed Essex tax adviser, who instructed his clients on how to fraudulently claim £1.5m in tax repayments, has been jailed for five years.
Former bricklayer Jeffrey Bakewell, of Cedar Avenue, Wickford, set himself up as a tax adviser. An investigation by HM Revenue and Customs revealed he kept around £300,000 from his clients’ false claims.
Bakewell’s clients were mainly crane drivers but also included builders and other construction industry workers.
They made claims for travel and subsistence payments but HMRC investigators found these had been covered by their employers.
A total of £1.5m was paid to 69-year-old Bakewell between 2009 and 2015.
He kept £301,897 and used it to finance his gambling while the rest went to his clients.
Bakewell failed to register as a tax adviser with HM Revenue & Customs as legally required, did not complete due diligence checks on his clients and failed to keep the records required by the Money Laundering Regulations.
Paul Barton, assistant director of the fraud investigation service at HMRC, said: “Bakewell had no financial qualifications and set himself up solely to advise people on fraud.
“He charged for advice on how to steal money from our vital public services but his appalling conduct has now put him behind bars.
“We will not allow criminals to attack the tax system and cheat the honest majority. Anyone helping tax fraudsters can expect to end up in court.”
Bakewell admitted tax fraud and was jailed for five years at Chelmsford Crown Court on Monday (26 June).
Confiscation proceedings to recover the money he stole have begun.
Money is being recovered from Bakewell’s clients for the false repayments by civil means.”
5-years for a mere £1.5million!
How long in the pokey could a disgraced knight of the realm expect for a tax fraud involving many tens of millions?????
Haven’t read it anywhere in the SMSM, but I guess [?] that TRFC’s UEFA opponents are part-timers ?
Even so, on paper at least, you could equate this tie with an SPL team playing – mibbees – a Juniors team ?
TRFC should win this tie easily: well, the SMSM will spontaneously combust in unison if they manage to lose the tie !
But a small club from Luxembourg has absolutely nothing to lose by following up with a complaint to UEFA.
Assuming TRFC wins tonight, then, IMO, it would also be worth a punt to go very public about TRFC’s eligibility to play in the Europa Cup – and before the return leg is played.
If UEFA wants to look the other way, then Progres might at least be able to use their public complaining to annoy and unnerve TRFC….and perhaps put the team off its game in Luxembourg…if nothing else ?
STEVIEBCJUNE 29, 2017 at 15:04
“But a small club from Luxembourg has absolutely nothing to lose by following up with a complaint to UEFA.”
——————————————————————————————–
Only if they are made aware of it Stevie. ….They know now, but don’t let that be a deterrent to others who may wish to voice any concerns they may have.
https://www.editus.lu/en/fc-progres-niederkorn-differdange-782780
So, by taking action this team could enhance their chances of qualification to the next round.
Now, a headline.
Think. Think.
“Progres to………………kick Gers when they’re down” perhaps?
STEVIEBCJUNE 29, 2017 at 15:04
Sorry – but given we have been waiting years for the likes of a successful professionally run multi- millions earning enterprise like Celtic speak out definitively about the cheating that has gone on in the Scottish game why the hell should we be relying on some pub team from Luxembourg to resolve matters?
I just chose Celtic as an example because they are the billy big baws with the power and influence to really make a difference
However, it is to all of our clubs shame that it has come to this type of pleading and begging in an attempt to see justice done.
🙁
WOTTPI
JUNE 29, 2017 at 16:20
…
Scottish game why the hell should we be relying on some pub team from Luxembourg to resolve matters?
…
However, it is to all of our clubs shame that it has come to this type of pleading and begging in an attempt to see justice done.
=========================
Agreed, that the 41 other senior clubs should have acted long before now.
But it would seem that engaging an external source might be the best / only way to actually highlight the corruption in Scottish football.
Whether this Europa tie could be a catalyst – who knows ?
…but we have to try, IMO.
[I had sent emails to a few Luxembourg daily newspapers.]
WOTTPIJUNE 29, 2017 at 16:20
STEVIEBCJUNE 29, 2017 at 15:04
Sorry – but given we have been waiting years for the likes of a successful professionally run multi- millions earning enterprise like Celtic speak out definitively about the cheating that has gone on in the Scottish game why the hell should we be relying on some pub team from Luxembourg to resolve matters?
I just chose Celtic as an example because they are the billy big baws with the power and influence to really make a difference
However, it is to all of our clubs shame that it has come to this type of pleading and begging in an attempt to see justice done.
———————————————————————————————-
A fair comment WOTTPI, but we do not know the reason why member clubs are reluctant to throw their oar in. It may well be that they all have something to hide, and achieving justice through domestic channels may not be possible. (No I have not given up hope)
It may well be that, (as I have been informed) that the SC verdict on Wednesday could be pivotal in how our clubs respond
I am not saying either is the case, but we must act without fear or favour. Does it matter who is being cheated, or who is doing it?…It’s still cheating.
Just on that Imperial Bears piece btw. (well, he took the time to write it, badly, so only fair I give him/her the benefit of the doubt).
My particular favourite was his climactic ’90 minutes’ claim and that it was ironic given the involvement of a football club. Really? That was the only irony you observed? Dearie me.
StevieBCJune 29, 2017 at 16:32
More power to your elbows guys. (and any gals)
[I had sent emails to a few Luxembourg daily newspapers.]
_________________________________________________
Well done StevieBC. I very much admire your effort.
BTW I may not comment very often but I read everything every day
StevieBCJune 29, 2017 at 16:32
[I had sent emails to a few Luxembourg daily newspapers.]
======================
You might want to send one to UEFA.
Grant Russell has triggered discussion on the OC/NC debate on twitter (probably trolling for a response)
GR: One for Rangers old/new club debaters. UEFA have Danny Wilson as eligible for Europa Lge as he was trained “by his current club” 2006-2010.
Me: Was the information on the status of the players provided by the club or UEFA? The names of the players certainly had to come from the club.
GR: Provided by the club, verified by the Scottish FA, cross-checked by UEFA. UEFA rules say all questions on eligibility rest with them.
Me: I seem to recall a similar process supposedly being followed in respect of a tax bill back in 2011.
Me: There are over 150 teams entered in the EL. Do you think UEFA will individually check 150 x 25 training histories? Plus more for List B.
No answer to that one but he continues in conversation with others, including a Richard Wilson (don’t think it’s the BBC one though)
RW: Taking fishing seriously for a minute, Grant, if Wilson plays, would it be up to Progres to protest or would UEFA have clarified status?
GR: Progres could protest. It’s at that point UEFA would have to clarify beyond doubt.
RW: So they won’t have gone back in advance to say yay or nay that they accept it?
GR: From the rules: “The UEFA administration decides on questions of player eligibility.” So they ought to have clarified his player passport.
….. and the perfect finish from an “Andy Anderson”
AA: Genuine question, is he playing?
GR: Injured tonight.