The link at the bottom of this piece points to an excellent blog by James Forrest on the ‘decline’ of the Old Firm, and particularly the viewing figures for the recent matches between Celtic and TRFC.
Whilst James, as you would expect is focusing on the consequences of the OF tag for Celtic, it is worthwhile considering that the decline in viewers is an excellent litmus test of the provenance of TRFC with regard to RFC.
Is it because the ‘you’re not Rangers anymore!’ faction is winning the argument?
Or might it be that viewers, voting with their feet, are simply indicating what many of us have said all along – that a brand name does not amount to serious competition.
There has been a presumption – particularly held in the MSM- that Scottish football badly needed a Rangers to provide a challenge to Celtic dominance. Our counter to that is that TRFC, representing the ‘Rangers’ constituency, are in no position to provide any such challenge.
Common sense dictated this.
Not that common sense came into it for our newsroom chums. At the beginning of last season, a whole troupe of hacks ventured their prediction that TRFC would win at least one trophy in that campaign. Again this season, despite the huge gulf in performance levels between TRFC and the top two, even more hacks are queuing up to offer their optimism on the Ibrox club’s chances of success and glory.
I am bound to say that those same hacks will be quick to point out Gordon Strachan’s shortcomings as Scotland manager whilst ironically demonstrating, through their predictive deficit, that their football judgement has little if any bearing on L’actualité.
I am however disposed to charity. Perhaps what they meant was that TRFC, given its massive fan base, has the most potential (in time) to challenge Celtic. Then, absurdly, the same MSM choke the life out of that potential by assisting charlatan after charlatan on their way through the self-enriching revolving door at Ibrox.
The TRFC potential, if it exists in the foreseeable future, requires the Ibrox club to be rid of those who still, after decades of disgrace and disaster, sell the same false promises dressed up as moonbeams to the masses.
In actual fact, and as it stands right now, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts have a significantly greater potential to challenge for honours; they are well run clubs who balance the books. Crucially, they have no debt, no directors whose presence on their boards effectively cuts off access to investment – and they put the emphasis on building Teams (capital T) and not collections of individuals with an exotic distant-past, questionable influence, and huge draw on salary resources .
Even more crucially, they have realistic expectations of where they want to be in the short to medium term.
TV audiences, relying on neutral fans hungry for a spectacle will not be – in fact are not – conned by this OF sophistry. Without doubt in my view, Scottish football is a far more interesting and compelling place now than it was five years ago. The brand has grown in the absence of the Old Firm, and with the right nurture, can grow even stronger.
TRFC can be part of it all, but the expectations have to be commensurate with their circumstances. All the OF has to offer is a 350 year old conflict that few of us understand – or care to understand. The MSM championing of that embarrassment is a major reason why Scottish football cares less about quality and diversity than it should.
The audiences however, will not be fooled.
Celtic, Rangers, the SFA and everybody else in our game need to jettison the OF brand. It is no longer – if it ever was- relevant. Paying customers in the 21st century deserve better than a geek show.
Pic from the Film Noire classic, Nightmare Alley
TrisidiumOctober 20, 2017 at 00:54
Bordersdon Not fizzling out. I think we are in the calm before storm period.
—————————————————————
Please forgive my pessimism! I so much hope you are right and a helluva storm arrives.
I just read on CQN that parts of the media are trying to paint Celtic supporters in a bad way because of the trash left behind in Marienplatz in the centre of Munich.
This is sad. There was no trouble, no arrests, rival fans got on OK, there was no problems with the locals. The local police posted a tweet thanking the visiting fans for being peaceful and wished them a safe journey home.
They also mentioned that litter bins were not set up for security reasons. When you see pictures of the mess I would imagine, although I am no expert, that the city cleansing department would deal with that in about an hour. It’s a typical consequence of large crowd gatherings. I’m sure some have seen the after effects of a huge open air pop/rock event.
To be clear, I would be proud of any Scottish club, ANY, going abroad and leaving with their reputation kept intact if not enhanced.
It really is poor stuff to engage in this type of reporting. As if the result wasn’t enough for them.
More tweets today from James Doleman re the CF material.
James Doleman @jamesdoleman
A few questions Now that proceedings have been dropped against “Charlotte Fakes” for obtaining emails and recordings made by Craig Whyte
1. Why did current Rangers Chairman Dave King purchase the material for £30k?
2. Did the media outlets that used the material (Daily Record/Sun) get it from King or the original source?
3. Why did the Crown Office keep proceedings “live” for 4 years so limiting reporting until the issues raised had died down?
4. In the course of the investigation was King, or anyone else at Rangers interviewed by police on suspicion of receiving stolen property?
Finally, and most importantly, what does the CF material tell us about Whyte’s takeover and his links with the press, SPL and SFA
I’m planning a series of articles on all of this on @Byline_Media Will post them when done
EASYJAMBOOCTOBER 20, 2017 at 12:00
More tweets today from James Doleman re the CF material.
————————————————————————————————-
It would appear that the CF leaks were agenda driven, to create a situation from which to benefit. I recall CF boasting of having buckets of information available Now it appears the releases were not a punishable act.
That being the case, I am equally curious as to the material that wasn’t released, either because it was incriminating or didn’t fit the narrative, or any other reason……It seems obvious that what was released was a very one-sided version of events.
I bet there is more sauce there than we will ever know.
A wee bit off topic but I have just made a big pot of Chilli Con Carne for the week-end. An extra tsp of hot chilli powder is a must. This serves to give you a healthy thirst to watch the semi finals. On top of that, I have discovered a white wine which is only 7% proof so you can drink away (two bottles), kid yourself on that your having a skinful but your actually stone cold sober after 3 hours.
Now if everyone would follow my example there would be no trouble at Hampden, no pitch invasions and the A&E units would be empty.
Pass it on.
I note we are in the middle of the hurricane season and it came to me that the roofs at Ibrox still seem to be on.
I have no problem believing maintenance works are required but we still seem to be waiting on the big story developing or has this just dropped off the radar?
JIMBOOCTOBER 20, 2017 at 19:01
Sounds great in theory Jimbo but in my experience these brews usually taste like sh1t.
if this is not the case with your latest find please share the details as I’m sure I’m not the only one who would be keen to follow your plan.
From “The Scotsman” online:
“Graeme Souness was going to replace an under-fire Alex Ferguson as Manchester United manager on the say-so of Rangers chairman David Murray.”
Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/graeme-souness-david-murray-was-going-to-make-me-man-united-manager-1-4592515
‘..Graeme Souness was promoting his new autobiography “Football: My Life, My Passion”
____________
I wonder does he discuss his ‘scouting’ work for RFC(IL) when he was being paid by Newcastle?
Probably not, I suppose.
But the very helpful ‘Scotsman’ puff for his book might get him a few sales to help him pay the tax on his EBT payment from a grateful Rangers board for services rendered long after he had left that now dead club!
[ I am up late tonight because we had a good long (two and a half hour ) delightful skype session with the family in Oz.Just watching the weans on the trampoline in the pouring rain [19 degrees celsius] and thinking how glad I am not to be a board member of the SFA!
]
WOTTPIOCTOBER 20, 2017 at 20:19
I note we are in the middle of the hurricane season and it came to me that the roofs at Ibrox still seem to be on.I have no problem believing maintenance works are required but we still seem to be waiting on the big story developing or has this just dropped off the radar?
====================
I take your point.
However, on a note of caution there were plenty in the media from 2010 onwards who described Rangers tax problems as a bampot fantasy…how did that work out? Too much has been overlooked or covered up at all levels of football governance and the Scottish establishment for us to take anything regarding Rangers/Ibrox with a pinch of salt.
UPTHEHOOPSOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 07:34
And I take yours UTH. We wait and see although I can’t imagine even that mob will be able to hold a dodgy roof together in a hurricane!
upthehoopsOctober 21, 2017 at 07:34
WOTTPIOCTOBER 20, 2017 at 20:19 I note we are in the middle of the hurricane season and it came to me that the roofs at Ibrox still seem to be on.I have no problem believing maintenance works are required but we still seem to be waiting on the big story developing or has this just dropped off the radar?====================I take your point. However, on a note of caution there were plenty in the media from 2010 onwards who described Rangers tax problems as a bampot fantasy…how did that work out? Too much has been overlooked or covered up at all levels of football governance and the Scottish establishment for us to take anything regarding Rangers/Ibrox with a pinch of salt.
__________________________
I think we’ve seen enough examples of things being put on the back boiler, indeed, as James Doleman pointed out on twitter, there is a question on why did the CPS/courts kept reporting restrictions over the CF material for four years, then dropped the charges that the restrictions related to? Now, it might just have been the case that circumstances dictated that they should be kept out of the general public domain…until such time that their effect on Rangers/TRFC/Dave King, and many others, was diminished!
It’s been noted many times before just how the wheels of justice turn so slowly when it helps an Ibrox club, and those who surround it, avoid awkward moments. Awkward moments which, if pursued with the vigour, of, say, a benefits cheat investigation, might lead to charges against establishment (tax cheating) figures!
It won’t be the first time that a council has turned a blind eye, or accepted promises from, shall we say, insincere people, to building failures to help a buddy, or someone/something they see as too important to ‘Scottish Society’ to force into remedial action, and Rangers and it’s successor certainly fall into the ‘protected’ category.
There are many building the length and breadth of the country that have been condemned that remain standing for decades, with the only visible deterioration being the result of vandalism. Those charged with the health and safety of the community, I am sure, will deign it imperative that they ensure safety work is carried out long before a disaster becomes imminent, it is not in their own interest to do otherwise. So, just because there has been no visible signs of the high winds causing dire danger to the public under, and around, the Ibrox roofs, doesn’t mean there is no potentially dangerous problem with them and no (perhaps delayed) HSE order hidden from view!
We also have to remember that King, himself, let slip that expensive work was required, and that, despite all the rumours, no one has stated that no problem with the Ibrox roofs exists!
So Hibs demanded a 50-50 split for todays game. They should be embarrassed. Not least Doncaster, the ‘neutral’ business man in charge of the SPFL. Thousands of empty seats, needlessly, at our glorious national stadium. Will he resign? Will Petrie? What’s lost? Heading towards half a million pounds? And the shame of it broadcast live on TV.
If the tickets were all sold, fine. If not then release them to the season ticket holders in Scottish football who otherwise would be denied a trip to the national stadium to watch their team play.
If there is a principle in place that no team should have more than 50% of the tickets then why are Sevco Rangers getting 38,000 tickets tomorrow.
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/angry-celtic-in-ticket-row-and-doncaster-was-warned/
——————-
Wonder what happened here? is it one rule for one and one rule for another.
Cluster OneOctober 21, 2017 at 11:20
‘….If there is a principle in place ..’
_________
That made me chuckle, C1: the SFA know not the meaning of the word, shabby bunch that they have proved themselves to be over the last 6 years.
Maybe I missed it, is it now accepted as fact that Dave King bought the “hacked” material.
HomunculusOctober 21, 2017 at 14:01
Not certain, but did that not come out at one of the recent trials, of a rather long series of trials and hearings, involving one, or more, football clubs that played, or plays, at Ibrox?
ALLYJAMBO
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 14:29
I never noticed that anywhere, I know King himself didn’t give evidence and as far as I am aware the bloke who allegedly stole the material didn’t either.
I was just wondering if it had come out in some other way.
STV article on King buying the CF stuff –
https://stv.tv/news/west-central/1390627-rangers-chairman-dave-king-bought-hacked-whyte-emails/
I’m happy and raging at the same time. I know this site doesn’t like posts about incompetent referees so I will go no further.
however. Two of my other favourite teams Dundee Utd. & Livingston are getting beat.
Thank goodness Strictly Comes Dancing is on tonight to calm me down.
Cmon Joe McFadden ! 🙂
THEGAMESABOGEY
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 14:58
===============================
Thanks for the link, much appreciated.
I wasn’t aware that had been confirmed.
So if the person who stole them had been prosecuted then King would have been prosecuted for reset.
HOMUNCULUSOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 16:28
—————–
@jamesdoleman4. In the course of the investigation was King, or anyone else at Rangers interviewed by police on suspicion of receiving stolen property? 5
———-
3. Why did the Crown Office keep proceedings “live” for 4 years so limiting reporting until the issues raised had died down? 4/
———–
2. Did the media outlets that used the material (Daily Record/Sun) get it from King or the original source? 3/
———–
1. Why did current Rangers Chairman Dave King purchase the material for £30k? 2/
—————–
Some questions should be answered soon.
I’m planning a series of articles on all of this on @Byline_Media Will post them when done.james doleman
10,000 tickets unsold?…..Can Scottish fitba afford that, not just in monetary terms, but in presentation terms also.
I hate to say it, but if Hibs want to keep 10,000 briefs they can’t sell…..Then pay for them !!!. Others would have gladly coughed, generating much needed revenue
CLUSTER ONE
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 17:20
===================================
I look forward to reading what James has to say.
I think he is one of the very few who might actually investigate this and print what he finds.
CORRUPT OFFICIAL
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 17:29
=============================
A semi final, being played at the national stadium and shown on TV and they contrive to make sure it isn’t sold out.
Doing thousands of supporters out of seeing the game live and losing hundreds of thousands of pounds for everyone concerned.
It beggars belief.
So Hibs demanded a 50-50 split for todays game. They should be embarrassed. Not least Doncaster, the ‘neutral’ business man in charge of the SPFL. Thousands of empty seats, needlessly, at our glorious national stadium. Will he resign? Will Petrie? What’s lost? Heading towards half a million pounds? And the shame of it broadcast live on TV.
……………………………..
I got 6 thumbs down for this. Come on. Explain yourself. Why do you disagree? Have you got the guts to come on and explain why we should see thousands of empty seats? Do you believe it should be 50-50? regardless? Why will there be 38k Ibrox fans tomorrow? Come on you 6 Thumb downers explain yourselves. Or can you?
JIMBOOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 20:34
Do you believe it should be 50-50? regardless? Why will there be 38k Ibrox fans tomorrow?
———————
I have yet to see an explanation for that.
was C v H a 50/50 split and the unsold tickets by hibs not allowed to be sold to celtic fans?
Is the motherwell v trfc A 50/50 split or what?
was it a 50/50 split and motherwells unsold tickets were sold to trfc fans?
As I understand it the semi-final gates are split four ways, no matter who buys the tickets.
So not only is it embarrassing for our game, it also means that every club lost out financially.
Madness.
Cluster OneOctober 21, 2017 at 20:56
Is the motherwell v trfc A 50/50 split or what? was it a 50/50 split and motherwells unsold tickets were sold to trfc fans?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No Motherwell only took 8,000 and have just about sold them. I suspect we will want a 50/50 split for the Final once all the glory hunters surface.
BOGS DOLLOX
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 21:33
==============================
So Motherwell asked for what they thought they needed and have sold them.
Hibs demanded 50% of the tickets and couldn’t sell them.
Is that basically the situation.
HomunculusOctober 21, 2017 at 21:37
BOGS DOLLOX OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 21:33 ==============================
So Motherwell asked for what they thought they needed and have sold them.
Hibs demanded 50% of the tickets and couldn’t sell them.
Is that basically the situation.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It would appear so. Hibs miscalculated it.
Or did they? Might be they wanted to limit the Celtic support.
BOGS DOLLOXOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 21:33
—————
thanks for clarification
CLUSTER ONEOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 20:56
I have yet to see an explanation for that.was C v H a 50/50 split and the unsold tickets by hibs not allowed to be sold to celtic fans?
Is the motherwell v trfc A 50/50 split or what?was it a 50/50 split and motherwells unsold tickets were sold to trfc fans?
============================
The Motherwell Chief Executive was a guest on Radio Clyde today. He said there was a meeting of the four semi finalists and Motherwell asked for an allocation they believed they would sell, with a provision for more if required. Hibs seemingly demanded a 50-50 split with Celtic. Personally I have no objection to that if they can sell them. I note many Hibs fans on Twitter who are adamant they would rather have empty seats than Celtic having extra fans.
No answer to this it seems.
Yes Hom. that’s about it. Petrie is an idiot in lots of ways. He is one of the ‘lets move on brigade’. Now he would rather see rows of empty seats in the faint chance that it would give Hibs a slight advantage. An idiot is being polite. Hope Lennon walks and leaves him in the shit where he belongs.
Oh! during the conversation earlier i did mean to post this. Two years ago named.
Thanks for all replies
Cluster OneOctober 21, 2017 at 20:56
‘…I have yet to see an explanation for that.’
__________
I have had look at
SPFL RULES AND REGULATIONS SPFL ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION andTHE SCOTTISH PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE CUP COMPETITION REGULATIONs-Final
All I see is that in the matter of running the ‘league cup’ competition the ‘Board’ has got absolute discretion in a whole lot of things!
There’s not a dicky bird that I can see about ticket allocation for the clubs that reach the semi-finals or the final, just rules about paying in whatever monies are received from ticket sales and returning unsold tickets.
Not even any sort of underlying principle [!] relating to the need or otherwise for segregation of supporters, or how the relative strengths of club supports should be reflected in ticket allocation for a ‘neutral’ ground.
Today’s experience might indicate a desire on the part of one team to try to ensure that the match wasn’t turned into a home game for the other club, by asking for 50% allocation to make sure that their opponents did not have 75%, and by returning unsold tickets too late for possible issue to the opposing side.
Tomorrow, of course, the sensible behaviour of one team in not asking for more tickets than they could sell means that the opponents had the advantage of being able to purchase well over 50%.
In the apparent absence of any ‘rules’ imposing a ‘sell or return by a specified date’ on requests for ridiculously unreasonable allocations, the inefficient and ineffective Board of the SPFL seem to have cost the SPFL quite a few bob!
It is, of course, entirely possible that Hibs did return the unsold tickets in sufficient time for the Board to be able to increase the allocation made to Celtic, and that it was another mean Farry-like action to contrive to deny Celtic a greater allocation-mean enough to be prepared to take a financial hit.
Just like Dorothy Parker, who remarked that ” if all the girls who attended the Yale prom were…….”, she wouldn’t be surprised, I am ready not to be surprised by anything done the Board of the SPFL.
And, of course, in the absence of any kind of explanation [anybody?] one is free to speculate.
Or is that too, too outrageous?
Cluster OneOctober 21, 2017 at 22:04
Attachment
Oh! during the conversation earlier i did mean to post this. Two years ago named.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Interesting that The Sun says Stevenson was facing an extortion charge when we know now that he sold the info to King how had Traynor use it to damage RIFC Plc’s share price.
My post of 22.52:
Apologies for the format:
I got a phone call which prevented me from editing into decent paras and spacing, as I usually try to do in the 5 minutes allowed!
BOGS DOLLOX
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 23:03
================================
Well we don’t actually “know” that, it’s an assumption.
HomunculusOctober 21, 2017 at 23:08
BOGS DOLLOX OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 23:03 ================================
Well we don’t actually “know” that, it’s an assumption.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We know from the shambles of a Whyte prosecution that King bought the material. A prosecution whose witnesses were more or less playing for the other team. Why?
BOGS DOLLOX
OCTOBER 21, 2017 at 23:45
We know from the shambles of a Whyte prosecution that King bought the material. A prosecution whose witnesses were more or less playing for the other team. Why?
================================
How does that equate to
“… we know now that he sold the info to King how had Traynor use it to damage RIFC Plc’s share price.”
=================================
You are assuming that King gave the material to Traynor “… to damage RIFC Plc’s share price.”
Do you actually know that, and if so, how.
Bogs DolloxOctober 21, 2017 at 23:45
‘…… A prosecution whose witnesses were more or less playing for the other team. Why?’
__________
Given the kind of ‘journalists’ that we have here ( unlike Malta, and God rest Daphne Caruana Galizia!) we are not likely even to see any questioning of that shambles of a prosecution, let alone any answers. Or the earlier shambles of prosecutions of others who were charged with various offences.
God forgive me, but over the last 5 years or so, it’s been like watching trials in the ‘Deep South’, in which people go through the motions of legal process to arrive at a pre-determined outcome.
I do not , of course, say that that was the case: only that I was put in mind of those kinds of trials/civil actions where the ‘prosecution’s’ case is so badly put , and so half-arsedly pushed, as to raise suspicion that they have been told to act a part in a charade of law enforcement , but so designed that the accused or defenders walk free essentially unpunished.
We know that SDM cheated.
We know that very special arrangements were made to accommodate CG.
We do not know too hellish much about the ‘novation’ which suddenly made SevcoScotland the owner of the assets
We know that the SFA refuses to open itself to investigation .
We know enough not to trust, until they open themselves to investigation-right from the first moment they knew of SDM’s difficulties, through their dinner table conversations with CW , and the submission to ‘Rangers’ of what they proposed to say to UEFA about the tax debt situation, and the really dirty wee 5-way agreement…..
There is little doubt that extraordinary measures were adopted, unquestioned by the SMSM, to lie to us.
And there are undoubtedly some who would even suggest that our judicial system has been interfered with along the way.
Me?I couldn’t possibly comment.
For all the”THEY KILLED OUR CLUB”
All the people who were arrested and all the others who have come and gone through the ibrox doors since 2011, who now go about their daily lives free men and the accusations proved wrong against them. Who do the ibrox support look at for killing their club? or now do they not blame anyone for killing their club as they believe it’s still the same club. But a great many fingers have been pointed in all directions since 2011.Maybe all the ibrox support who believe it is still the same club now but were pointed fingers and demanded answers could have a tifo or release a statement saying SORRY to all the people they accused of killing their club,but now they don’t believe their club was killed.
Or am i asking to much for a sunday morning?
BOGS DOLLOXOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 23:45
We know from the shambles of a Whyte prosecution that King bought the material.
—————
I wonder why william stevenson was never given a job on the ibrox board, the only guy who could get money out of DK
A quiet weekend for Dons fans like myself but I’m sure we will all be hoping Motherwell cheer up a rather bleak Sunday in the north east today.
The highlight of my sporting weekend actually arrived early – Friday morning, driving to work to be precise. Super salary McCoist happened to be on Talksport radio with Alan Brazil and for some reason they started talking about car boot sales. Alan enquiries of Ally, ‘have you ever been to a car boot sale?’, to which Ally says no but then Brazil comes in with ‘I thought that would have been right up your street – all that tax free cash in the sky rocket!’
This was followed by a lovely moment of radio silence as the producer tried to get some impromptu adverts on.
From Mark Daly’s BBC documentary, there were 15 EBT recipients never identified. I wonder if Ally had his nose in the trough too?!
Homunculus
October 21, 2017 at 23:51
“You are assuming that King gave the material to Traynor “… to damage RIFC Plc’s share price.”
“Do you actually know that, and if so, how. “
——————————————————————-
Mibbies aye Mibbies naw but:-
A Report into the Campaign of Tortious Interference waged against Worthington Group Plc and associated parties
Attached above see page 8
That’s the SMSM snookered for all there old firm headlines
Did anyone else, like me, get the impression that the look on King’s face as he disappeared indoors was the look of a man wondering how the club’s auditors are going to re-word their notes in TRFC/RIFC’s accounts to cover the lost cup final revenue? Revenue, I am sure, that was earmarked to cover the bulk of December’s shortfall. With walk-ups at the next few home games hit too, it could be a chilly December around Ibrox!
Seriously, though, I am sure there will need to be some persuading/horse trading done to find an increased director’s loan and the correct flim flam words in the accounts! It wasn’t just Cardoso who suffered a bloody nose today
Will king(who knew he jetted in) put the blame for pedro as manager down to stewart Robertsons door? Is Stewart Robertson the only director left at TRFC. Will the company directors blame the club directors
Can’t see what all the fuss is about.
Hard fought semi final between the clubs in third and fourth in the Premiership.
Not much between the teams and could have gone either way but Moult seems to be in one of those patches where he is on fire.
The problem is, as usual, the MSM believing Sevco are the old EBT doped Rangers.
When Motherwell went 1-0 the commentator declared they had 20mins to “hold on”. However the games stats at that point showed the Steelmen had had more possession, more shots on target and more corners.
T’Rangers were certainly going to come out all guns blazing but the chances of them securing a come from behind victory was never going to be the kind of certainty as might have been in days gone by.
Maybe after today (and hopefully again at Murrayfield next week
) reality is finally beginning to dawn on a few people.
CLUSTER ONEOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 16:28
That’s the SMSM snookered for all there old firm headlines
=====================
Tom English has suggested the game will be billed as ‘Celtic v the team that beat Rangers’.
On a more serious note it is almost ten years since Phil O’Donnell tragically died. This final is a real opportunity for two of his former clubs to honour the memory of a very fine player who was taken at such a young age.
ALLYJAMBOOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 16:50 8 10 Rate This
————-
Ten TD…..Harsh.
———
Seriously, though, I am sure there will need to be some persuading/horse trading done
————–
With another income of a cup final gone and even the most delusional of the smsm will find it hard to put a spin on any of trfc players been of any value in a january sale cash must be getting very tight down ibrox way.
Ibrox fans are already calling for pedros head to roll.But can king come up with the cash to replace him and get a new manager who will be given funds for january?
A cold shoulder from the takeover panel and king maybe having to step down as rifc director, winning a watch with i can’t do nothing about it kind of thing.The pressure could fall on the other directors to come up with the cash
Ps 50/50 split for the final?
CLUSTER ONEOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 19:16
With another income of a cup final gone and even the most delusional of the smsm will find it hard to put a spin on any of trfc players been of any value
===========
Don’t be so sure. I heard a coupe of Radio Clyde pundits taking the line that maybe the players already there just need the right manager.
UPTHEHOOPSOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 19:38
Are they suggesting that pedro is just a good scout but not a manager then?
CLUSTER ONEOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 19:49
UPTHEHOOPSOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 19:38Are they suggesting that pedro is just a good scout but not a manager then?
——————————–
They seem to think there are a lot of very good players who just don’t play as a unit. I am happy for them to think that.
UPTHEHOOPS
i want to crowdfund a pedro must stay if yer up for it
Cluster OneOctober 22, 2017 at 19:16
‘….A cold shoulder from the takeover panel and king maybe having to step down as rifc director, winning a watch with i can’t do nothing about it kind of thing.The pressure could fall on the other directors to come up with the cash’
__________Well, Cluster One, Rule 9.2 deals with the obligations of other persons to make an offer by providing that: “In addition to the person specified in Rule 9.1, each of the principal members [my italics] ofa group of persons acting in concert with him may, according to the circumstancesof the case, have the obligation to extend an offer.”
Now, in the Executive’s decision this is said:
“In the circumstances of the case and in reliance on Rule 9.2 the Executive decidedthat it was just for Mr King alone to incur the obligation to extend a Rule 9 offer.”
So, the Executive thought that King was the main man in the concert party, and that he could justly be required , of himself, to extend a Rule 9 offer.
But of course,the others were part of the concert party.
If the Court of Session orders King to make the offer ( so as to secure compliance with ) and he obeys, then the others are off the hook.
If he does not obey, or cannot obey, would that state of affairs let the others off the hook?
The Take0ver Panel would surely look extremely weak and foolish if the result of its first ever use of the Courts was that all the others were free to ignore the order to make an offer simply because one of the concert party was able to defy the Court.
We were speaking earlier of other court cases that seemed not to be brilliantly prosecuted.
Surely to God the Takeover Panel hhaven’t cocked things up by using the phrase “it was “just” for Mr King alone”?
JOHN CLARKOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 21:27
—————
If the Court of Session orders King to make the offer ( so as to secure compliance with ) and he obeys, then the others are off the hook.If he does not obey, or cannot obey, would that state of affairs let the others off the hook?
—————–
will it be left to the others also to come up with the cash also to pay off the manager and his staff and get a new manager and staff in,if things don’t work out for pedro.
No matter what happens, soon someone will need to find a lot of cash
Have the Rangers fans contributed the most to the kitty, that is split to the Semi Final teams. I would think that more Rangers fans attended the Semi Final out of the four teams.
Tony on October 22nd @ 21:21
Rumours abound on Twitter he has already gone, but Twitter not always the most reliable source to say the least. More likely that people are speculating on something happening which they see as inevitable at some point.
MERCDOCOCTOBER 22, 2017 at 21:59
———–
See above
HOMUNCULUSOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 21:26
Homuculus. Please accept my most humble appologies! Black Adder style
Just saw the game highlights.
Congratulations Motherwell.
Looking forward to a decent final.
[Everything else about their semi-final win is merely noise.]
ALLYJAMBOOCTOBER 21, 2017 at 09:30
We also have to remember that King, himself, let slip that expensive work was required, and that, despite all the rumours, no one has stated that no problem with the Ibrox roofs exists!
—————————————————————-
Agreed. However what is being questioned is the scale of the problem.
We are ten months on from Celtic fans trying to wear Green helmets to the Hogmanay fixture.
Given recent events like the cladding of school buildings falling down in Edinburgh and the Grenfell Tower fire, no Council in their right mind and in charge of issuing and reviewing safety certificates would currently be sitting on their hands if there was any hint of serious danger to public safety.
Just because the bampots have a few hits to their name I still think we need to be realistic and not be hoping every bit of speculation is going to see the failure of the team playing out of Ibrox.
Currently they seem to be making a decent fist of it themselves without any help form us!!
That being said a win against Killie could put them only 3 or 4 points off second place depending on results elsewhere, so nothing to be sniffed at. Just not really good enough for many Bears expectations.
It will be interesting to see the fans reaction on Wednesday.
(Anyway speaking of roofs, is it not time we got ours finished?)
ClusterOne at 21.58
Purely thinking aloud. Say the 3Bs want to offer x for shares on day 1 and King doing likewise offering y for shares also on day 1 prompts the 3Bs to warn King via Email that he/they can’t due to takeover rules. Subsequently, on day 2, King goes ahead and makes the share purchase anyway can the 3B’s be considered liable? When would the ‘concert line’ start and finish.
And for the absence of doubt I don’t expect an answer including the line “The boys to entertain youuuuuuu” however apt it may be!
WOTTPIOCTOBER 23, 2017 at 11:23
Given recent events like the cladding of school buildings falling down in Edinburgh and the Grenfell Tower fire, no Council in their right mind and in charge of issuing and reviewing safety certificates would currently be sitting on their hands if there was any hint of serious danger to public safety.
________
Excellent example, WOTTPI…for the point I was making. Sadly, very few councils have taken steps to rectify what is a very clear and present danger to public safety, so much so that I sent an email, myself, to the government minister involved (I can’t remember the smarmy toad’s name) at the request of 38 Degrees recently. A very scarey example of just how councils are prepared to let things go, even when it is they who carry the can for any deaths or injuries their lack of action might take, as opposed to being lax in forcing a private enterprise to carry out safety work and perhaps mitigated by promises that the work would be done.
None of us here are claiming that there is a definite danger of the roofs collapsing, there may be such claims elsewhere on the net, but just because there is no visible evidence of a problem, and no apparent action from the council, doesn’t mean that serious repairs aren’t required. The HSE and related bodies don’t wait until a building deteriorates to a state that it is going to collapse in the next high winds before, firstly perhaps, making a recommendation that they expect to be carried out, which, if it isn’t, becomes an order. The question remains over how strict they are in enforcing the order, and how prepared they are to accept the promises of the people running ‘national institutions’. If there is an institution anywhere in Scotland that will be allowed leeway to attend to such problems, it’s the one down Govan way!
As I said before, though, there is no good reason for RIFC/TRFC not to issue a statement to reassure their own supporters that there is no problem with their roofs, and at the same time explain what it was that King was referring to when he said there was urgent stadium repairs required. They, it would appear, prefer to hide behind their poodles in the SMSM, secure in the knowledge that no awkward questions will be asked.
As to our own club’s new stand roof, I am sure you are aware that it is almost complete and work is continuing as I write. You will also be aware that no members of the public will be allowed under it until it has passed a full HSE inspection. If it fails, the SMSM will be all over it – and everything else surrounding the building of the stand, with Ann Budge put under a less than kind microscope for good measure, the novelty of a female chairperson in football having worn off.
It is the lack of a media microscope on Ibrox matters that fuels the suspicions we all hold about the honesty of TRFC, and leaves the belief that there is something to hide!
ALLYJAMBOOCTOBER 23, 2017 at 12:30
Yes Grenfell proves the points that things can be set aside or missed until a disaster happens but the reverse is true that when one does happen everyone is on red alert and ultra cautious. That is why I believing the maintenance required is not of an urgent nature.
As for our new roof I don’t think there will be any backlash if the 5 November date is missed. The club (unlike DCK & T’Rangers) have already kept everyone informed in an open and transparent manner that the schedule is tight and that it may be Plan B will come into operation. The message being better to be safe and late than make a cock up of it all.
The new stand is a good news story for Scottish Football and while there may be a wee it of flack I think most people will welcome if, even if it is a few weeks late.
Good photos you posted on Kickback the other day BTW. Its all looking good.
wottpiOctober 23, 2017 at 14:49
ALLYJAMBOOCTOBER 23, 2017 at 12:30Yes Grenfell proves the points that things can be set aside or missed until a disaster happens but the reverse is true that when one does happen everyone is on red alert and ultra cautious. That is why I believing the maintenance required is not of an urgent nature.
__________________
Sadly, WOTTPI, my point is that the very necessary safety steps, as a result of the Grenfell tragedy, are not being taken, or, at least, not as a matter of urgency, with only a tiny percentage of buildings affected having been sorted, or scheduled to be done, though you probably won’t read about it in the papers, or see it on the TV news. But at least the people living in those affected tower blocks can sleep soundly knowing that the government, and the councils, know the work needs to be done, it’s just a matter of fingers crossed until they get around to doing it.
Sorry all, bit of a rant there.
Now, if something the whole world knows needs done can be put on the back burner, and the media not shout it from the rooftops, imagine what might happen when a lid can be kept on dangers at a protected institution!
Remember, safety regulations aren’t about what will happen, they are about ensuring what might happen, doesn’t!
This old maxim might sum it up: ‘For want of a nail (bolt) a shoe (fixing) was lost. For want of a shoe, a horse (bracket) was lost. For want of a horse, a battle (roof) was lost…’ But, of course, there might be no nails, and the battle is still won, but a good sergeant major (HSE) will always insist the nails are in place, just in case
On the DUFC Managerial Vacancy
A lot of names being bandied about as candidates incl ex players such as Jim McIntyre & Billy Dodds – I’m not a big fan of appointing ex players as managers but one that I would back is Big Dunc currently waiting to see what happens @ Everton – he would absolutely f*cking terrorise those failing players who got Ray McKinnon the sack .
wottpiOctober 23, 2017 at 14:49
As for our new roof I don’t think there will be any backlash if the 5 November date is missed. The club (unlike DCK & T’Rangers) have already kept everyone informed in an open and transparent manner that the schedule is tight and that it may be Plan B will come into operation. The message being better to be safe and late than make a cock up of it all.
The new stand is a good news story for Scottish Football and while there may be a wee it of flack I think most people will welcome if, even if it is a few weeks late.
======================
As expected a further two week delay has been announced, so it will be Partick Thistle on 19th November who will “open” the new stand. I’d expect Tynecastle to sell out for that game.
Photo from yesterday – (c) to James Christie.
SMUGASOCTOBER 23, 2017 at 12:06 12 0 Rate This
ClusterOne at 21.58
Purely thinking aloud. Say the 3Bs want to offer x for shares on day 1 and King doing likewise offering y for shares also on day 1 prompts the 3Bs to warn King via Email that he/they can’t due to takeover rules. Subsequently, on day 2, King goes ahead and makes the share purchase anyway can the 3B’s be considered liable? When would the ‘concert line’ start and finish.
——————
When would the ‘concert line’ start and finish.
——-
Would Probably start with the email on day 1.
Day 2 King goes ahead and makes the share purchase anyway.
(from memory that was a friday).
the 3Bs warn King via Email that he/they can’t due to takeover rules, then the 3Bs make there move on the monday. They warned king by email but still went ahead on the monday.
And most Probably the concert line finished when the Takeover Appeal Board published its decision.
http://www.thetakeoverpanel.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017_8.pdf
————-
Hope i read your post correct and i have answered the best i can,always happy to be corrected if i have said anything wrong.
————–
“The boys to entertain youuuuuuu” thank god i’m old enough to remember that
phil’s latest
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/10/23/shambles-fc/
congratulations celtic fc on being voted best fans in the world 2017
Sad to hear of SFMer Gordon Pomphrett’s passing. Condolences to his family.