Time to Ditch the Geek Show

Avatar ByBig Pink

Time to Ditch the Geek Show

 

The link at the bottom of this piece points to an excellent blog by James Forrest on the ‘decline’ of the Old Firm, and particularly the viewing figures for the recent matches between Celtic and TRFC.

Whilst James, as you would expect is focusing on the consequences of the OF tag for Celtic, it is worthwhile considering that the decline in viewers is an excellent litmus test of the provenance of TRFC with regard to RFC.

Is it because the ‘you’re not Rangers anymore!’ faction is winning the argument?

Or might it be that viewers, voting with their feet, are simply indicating what many of us have said all along – that a brand name does not amount to serious competition.

There has been a presumption – particularly held in the MSM- that Scottish football badly needed a Rangers to provide a challenge to Celtic dominance. Our counter to that is that TRFC, representing the ‘Rangers’ constituency, are in no position to provide any such challenge.

Common sense dictated this.

Not that common sense came into it for our newsroom chums. At the beginning of last season, a whole troupe of hacks ventured their prediction that TRFC would win at least one trophy in that campaign. Again this season, despite the huge gulf in performance levels between TRFC and the top two, even more hacks are queuing up to offer their optimism on the Ibrox club’s chances of success and glory.

I am bound to say that those same hacks will be quick to point out Gordon Strachan’s shortcomings as Scotland manager whilst ironically demonstrating, through their predictive deficit,  that their football judgement has little if any bearing on L’actualité.

I am however disposed to charity. Perhaps what they meant was that TRFC, given its massive fan base, has the most potential (in time) to challenge Celtic. Then, absurdly, the same MSM choke the life out of that potential by assisting charlatan after charlatan on their way through the self-enriching revolving door at Ibrox.

The TRFC potential, if it exists in the foreseeable future, requires the Ibrox club to be rid of those who still, after decades of disgrace and disaster, sell the same false promises dressed up as moonbeams to the masses.

In actual fact, and as it stands right now, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts have a significantly greater potential to challenge for honours; they are well run clubs who balance the books. Crucially, they have no debt, no directors whose presence on their boards effectively cuts off access to investment – and they put the emphasis on building Teams (capital T) and not collections of individuals with an exotic distant-past, questionable influence, and huge draw on salary resources .

Even more crucially, they have realistic expectations of where they want to be in the short to medium term.

TV audiences, relying on neutral fans hungry for a spectacle will not be – in fact are not –  conned by this OF sophistry. Without doubt in my view, Scottish football is a far more interesting and compelling place now than it was five years ago. The brand has grown in the absence of the Old Firm, and with the right nurture, can grow even stronger.

TRFC can be part of it all, but the expectations have to be commensurate with their circumstances. All the OF has to offer is a 350 year old conflict that few of us understand – or care to understand. The MSM championing of that embarrassment is a major reason why Scottish football cares less about quality and diversity than it should.

The audiences however, will not be fooled.

Celtic, Rangers, the SFA and everybody else in our game need to jettison the OF brand. It is no longer – if it ever was- relevant. Paying customers in the 21st century deserve better than a geek show.

https://thecelticblog.com/2017/10/blogs/falling-tv-viewing-figures-for-old-firm-games-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-big-lie/

Pic from the Film Noire classic, Nightmare Alley

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Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

611 Comments so far

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SmugasPosted on10:38 am - Oct 27, 2017


Crux for McInnes for me is that he would get them 2nd on the basis that a/ he’s a decent manager currently achieving 2nd with a talented but, as Wednesday proved, limited squad and b/ to get him would seriously undermine the club currently sitting in 2nd.

Both of those points I get.  But at some point you could imagine the bear huddle awakening and saying hang on, that’s just 2nd…

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on10:57 am - Oct 27, 2017


TRFC have a recently-appointed Director of Football in situ.

Would any of the managerial names being mentioned be happy working with a DoF & particularly the one that is in post?

Mibbes aye, mibbes naw!

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on1:04 pm - Oct 27, 2017


Jingso.JimsieOctober 27, 2017 at 10:57   
TRFC have a recently-appointed Director of Football in situ.Would any of the managerial names being mentioned be happy working with a DoF & particularly the one that is in post?Mibbes aye, mibbes naw!
_______________________-

The thing is, unlike, say, Craig Levein when DoF at Hearts, is there any evidence that TRFC’s DoF actually does anything? I don’t know, maybe he is doing a valuable job in the background. totally unnoticed by anyone, including the SMSM, but he’s certainly not ‘high profile’ and seems to have escaped all blame for the mess that’s been evident since he joined the club. Perhaps he is so ‘low profile’ that most managers might feel they could do the job unhindered by his presence. 

I’d suggest that the existence of a Director of Football at TRFC is unlikely to be the most off-putting aspect of the club’s attraction to a good, experienced manager, especially one who seems to be very much the ‘silent partner’.

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upthehoopsPosted on4:15 pm - Oct 27, 2017


Phil Macgiollabhain saying the Ibrox board have discussed going into Administration with no decision yet made. I know many on here have questioned why they would do that given there is no external debt, but as Phil says it would be a way of getting Pedro’s expensive duds of the books.  Would Administration mean the soft loans would have to be written off to pennies in the pound though?

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upthehoopsPosted on4:36 pm - Oct 27, 2017


SMUGASOCTOBER 27, 2017 at 10:38  

Crux for McInnes for me is that he would get them 2nd on the basis that a/ he’s a decent manager currently achieving 2nd with a talented but, as Wednesday proved, limited squad and b/ to get him would seriously undermine the club currently sitting in 2nd.
Both of those points I get.  But at some point you could imagine the bear huddle awakening and saying hang on, that’s just 2nd…








I have just read a high level puff piece from today’s Daily Record, a quote from it is as below:

‘Rangers will move for someone who understands the club and won’t be fazed at the idea of challenging Celtic’


Where is the money going to come from to do that?

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TrisidiumPosted on4:38 pm - Oct 27, 2017


I think the gardening leave theory is unlikely. Whilst it would allow Pedro to be ditched for a relatively small sim via any future administration, the announcement yesterday is rock-solid constructive dismissal territory.
I think Pedro’s been promised his cash.

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John ClarkPosted on4:39 pm - Oct 27, 2017


upthehoops
October 27,2017 at 16.15
______
‘..Phil Macgiollabhain saying the Ibrox board have discussed going into Administration’
___________
Phil’s tweet suggests that Phil has heard that ” Mr King confessed that he did not have the money to keep the show on the road”.
I’m not surprised at that, since he briefed his QC to tell the court he is penniless!
The man is surely not daft enough to let the court believe he was lying, is he?

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John ClarkPosted on4:44 pm - Oct 27, 2017


But do his fellow-directors believe him? Or have they got him taped as well as we have?

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Tincks

TincksPosted on5:50 pm - Oct 27, 2017


upthehoops October 27, 2017 at 16:15   
Phil Macgiollabhain saying the Ibrox board have discussed going into Administration with no decision yet made. I know many on here have questioned why they would do that given there is no external debt, but as Phil says it would be a way of getting Pedro’s expensive duds of the books.  Would Administration mean the soft loans would have to be written off to pennies in the pound though?
———————————————————————————-

Being a loss making business without a credit line from a bank is sustainable for so long as someone is prepared to cover those losses.  Once that support stops then some form of insolvency event is inevitable.

If persons have put that money in on an unsecured basis and the business can’t be made profitable then they are never, ever, going to get their money back.

So, there may come a day when writing off that money, (which has effectively been lost anyway), in order to get hold of a restructured business, (via a CVA), shorn of as much of its cost base as possible, might seem the least worst option.

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easyJamboPosted on6:01 pm - Oct 27, 2017


I have to treat PMGB’s latest speculation as to an insolvency event with a whole lot of scepticism.

While admin would allow unwanted high earners to be released, there are other considerations such as “football creditors” rules which, despite appearing to be an illegal constraint on trade, have been imposed by the football authorities in the past (e.g. Hearts were required to pay £535k to football creditors following admin, despite a CVA being approved). The affected players would certainly be treated as football creditors, so they would have to receive at least part of their contracts paid off.

Also, If Rangers acquired the players registrations by means of staged payments to their former clubs, then again those clubs would have to be paid in full.

Another consideration would be that of the directors themselves who could render themselves “unfit” for the next five years if the football authorities actually saw fit to apply the letter of their own rules.  As for King, Murray and Johnston, they would have been involved with two insolvent clubs within six years, so perhaps should be given a sine die suspension.     

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on6:04 pm - Oct 27, 2017


Trisidium
October 27, 2017 at 16:38 
I think the gardening leave theory is unlikely. Whilst it would allow Pedro to be ditched for a relatively small sim via any future administration, the announcement yesterday is rock-solid constructive dismissal territory. I think Pedro’s been promised his cash.
____________________

I don’t think there’s anything ‘constructive’ about it, Tris, it’s a straight forward dismissal, so Pedro will be due whatever it is his contract stipulates.

If Pedro is aware that the club is short of readies, I’d suggest he’d be as well accepting gardening leave, as demanding instant payment in full could be the straw that pushes the club into administration, meaning he only gets a proportion of the full amount he is due. The club might well still go into admin, but if it lasts, say, another two months, that’s two months wages he gets, and then he will get a proportion of his outstanding wage. There would also be a better chance that he gets his wage in full if TRFC don’t go into admin. There is every chance, of course, that he has been kept completely in the dark over the precarious financial state of the club, as no one will have told him, and I doubt he follows SFM, PMGB or any other bampots!

If there is a genuine chance that TRFC are going into administration, then I’d guess that the discussions will centre around how the board can best protect their own investments/interests. What has to be remembered, though, is that these loans were ‘lost’ money to begin with, as the intention, or the published intention, was that the loans would be turned into shares, so the worst outcome would be that the loan money is lost and the lenders don’t end up with the planned controlling interest in RIFC/TRFC. So a controlled administration could make sense to the board members as they would be no worse off personally, and hold shares in a football club that has shed most, or all, of it’s external debt and overpaid, under-achieving players. They could then get themselves out of the boardroom, and firing line, and leave it for some other staunch blazer (Alistair Johnston?) to get on with it.

Whatever happens, the directors, with possibly the exception of Dodgy Dave, are never going to see their loan money again, so they probably see little incentive in risking more money rather than biting the bullet and choosing administration while they can, somewhat, control it. That worked well for the previous club, didn’t it? Could King’s upcoming Takeover Panel decision ruin a safe passage through administration? Could the ToP and CoS view an administration as a construct to avoid complying with their ruling and cause a disruption, an unavoidable disruption, that could wrest control of an administration out of the board’s hands?

All these questions, and more…It really is such a very long running soap of extreme comedic value

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:24 pm - Oct 27, 2017


UPTHEHOOPSOCTOBER 27, 2017 at 09:09 
Perhaps they should lower the fans expectations, but then their only income stream might drop. 
Not a happy place at all, even if there was a hundred Richard Wilson’s to peddle myths at the public’s expense. 
———-
Thanks for reply.
So far the fans are being bombarded with every name you could think off, and some of the fans expectations are of the high level type of manager, the ibrox board have a lot to try and get right after two mistakes if they don’t that fan income stream will drop and that will create more problems for the ibrox board.
Just how a hundred Richard Wilson’s will peddle the next piss who knows.
Ally was peddled as a real rangers man who knew the club inside out.
Warburton was all about youth and bringing in young talent and about his contacts in the lower leagues of england.
Then pedro was all about the foreign names and the flair his bullfighting and jet skiing.
The ibrox board and the SMSM are running out of ways to big up not very good managers. Will the ibrox fans swallow the next pile of piss to come their way?
Ps SORRY FOR THE BAD LANGUAGE

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SmugasPosted on7:44 pm - Oct 27, 2017


Credit where it’s due.  Tom English made a decent fist of ‘debating’ Alex Rae’s staunch defence of Souness’ recent comments.  Amongst the highlights…

“Im sorry Alex, Scottish football isn’t dying”
“Tom, I used to play in England, nobody cares about Scottish mid table games”
“so why will a strong Rangers affect those mid table games”
“Tom, I know because I used to take players up in the car to see these games”
“What games?”
“Em…..old firm ones”

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:12 pm - Oct 27, 2017


SMUGAS
OCTOBER 27, 2017 at 19:44 …
“so why will a strong Rangers affect those mid table games”“Tom, I know because I used to take players up in the car to see these games”“What games?”“Em…..old firm ones”
=========================

Sooperb!  10

Always wondered why it was claimed that football players had their brains in their feet…

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John ClarkPosted on8:23 pm - Oct 27, 2017


Cluster OneOctober 27, 2017 at 19:24
‘..Just how a hundred Richard Wilson’s will peddle the next piss ..’
________
An over-delicate wee touch, C1, to use ‘peddle’ rather than ..1919

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on8:47 pm - Oct 27, 2017


JOHN CLARKOCTOBER 27, 2017 at 20:23
———
For some reason i now have an image of a paperboy on a bike throwing with a baseball pitchers pin point accuracy his deliveries, that bounce off the heads at waiting ibrox fans in their morning slippers and dressing gowns while shouting here’s your daily intake of peddled pish.
———-
I need more coffee

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SmugasPosted on9:47 pm - Oct 27, 2017


BP/Tris

perhaps the SFM twitter could be used to ask Tom if, since apparently a competitive Old Firm sells itself in Raeworld then presumably it makes sense to help the other ten clubs to become stronger at Rangers expense and voila’ more competitive = not dead. Result!  Or is that not the kind of competitive that Souness meant?

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Bogs DolloxPosted on10:58 pm - Oct 27, 2017


Cluster OneOctober 27, 2017 at 19:24 
UPTHEHOOPSOCTOBER 27, 2017 at 09:09  Perhaps they should lower the fans expectations, but then their only income stream might drop.  Not a happy place at all, even if there was a hundred Richard Wilson’s to peddle myths at the public’s expense.  ———- The ibrox board and the SMSM are running out of ways to big up not very good managers. Will the ibrox fans swallow the next pile of piss to come their way? Ps SORRY FOR THE BAD LANGUAGE
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Of course they will. Its backs against the wall time. “Loyal” is the watchword of the hour. The football defeats will need to come thicker and faster to eat away at that groupthink.

Mind you they have started to sense the degree of manipulation that has been going on.

I was on a train back from Mount Florida on Sunday stuffed with The Rangers fans and trying my best not to smile. Some kid showed me a photo of Cardoso’s broken nose on his mobile. I sense he had sniffed me out, but all I could say to him was “That’s fitba son, its a hard old game”

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John ClarkPosted on11:58 pm - Oct 27, 2017


And, fiddling about (disappointedly, because the hoped-for Skype from the granweans hasn’t materialised) on the news channels, I note that Alex has not applied for the ‘job’.

Oh, no, he has stated that ‘the club has [my] number’

How very hubristic, for a manager that Zamalek in Egypt smoked out in 65 days!

Pedro had rather longer at Ibrox, before they decided to bin him. 19

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on8:01 am - Oct 28, 2017


Ah, good old Auntie Beeb, never let’s her slip show, except in headlines about ‘Rangers’. The first headline is from the BBC’s online main football page, and by using the word ‘coy’ it might suggest, to a suggestive and gullible mind, that Derek McInnes is giving out neutral (because he doesn’t want to upset Aberdeen and it’s supporters) messages over the speculation linking him with the Ibrox job. The actual article’s headline is a bit closer to the truth, but after reading the first headline (the link to the story) a TRFC fan could be forgiven for not noticing the none too subtle change in tone.

‘Aberdeen’s McInnes coy over Rangers link’

‘Aberdeen boss Derek McInnes plays down Rangers vacancy link’

It is noticeable that in the quotes from McInnes, himself, there is nothing in the least bit coy, and no hint that he’s in the least bit interested in the job, not even an ‘I’m flattered…’. He says:

“I’m very happy being here, as I’ve stated often enough,” McInnes added.
“I’ve been supposedly linked with clubs a couple of times, and in particular as well with Rangers. My job is here at Aberdeen and I’m happy here and nothing changes.”

He falls just short of saying he’s not interested in the job, but fuelled with the original headline, what bear could possibly read into it that it’s anything other than a clear desperation to take over ‘the world’s most successful club’! 

Strange things happen in football, especially around Ibrox, but, so far, it’s only out of work McCoist who’s shown, categorically, any desire to be their next manager, and he, I’d think, is safe in the knowledge he’s got no chance. Also out of work, Billy Davies, will, no doubt, be interested, but he is so full of himself he’ll expect special treatment, and, even if he is prepared to work with a DoF, he’ll want to be his boss08, and, I suspect, want a salary that matches his opinion of himself.

Assuming no administration, I’ll be very surprised if the job goes to anyone not currently employed at Ibrox, at least for the remainder of the season.

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wildwood

wildwoodPosted on8:09 am - Oct 28, 2017


Scottish Football Needs A Strong *Rangers eh?

A statement made frequently over all media platforms through a compliant media, usually by an EBT recipient.

You would think *they were being held back, unfairly sanctioned, restricted from operating.

The glaringly obvious fact that *they continually fail to comprehend is, *they have huge match day income and therefore access to considerably more income and therefore a huge football budget than every diddy team in the land. Endless free publicity in the media. Zero scrutiny on corporate governance.

WHO IS F*****G STOPPING THEM?

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sickofitallPosted on8:31 am - Oct 28, 2017


Been out of the loop for a while could anyone tell me if the subject of stripping the titles is now out of the equation or is there still hope thanks 

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on9:22 am - Oct 28, 2017


It’s almost that time of year again to keep an eye on the BDO web page to see the Joint Liquidators’ statutory reports to all known creditors.

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oddjob

oddjobPosted on9:56 am - Oct 28, 2017


If the “administration” rumour gains any momentum, how long will it take for the league reconstruction debate to resurface?

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wottpiPosted on10:00 am - Oct 28, 2017


EASYJAMBOOCTOBER 27, 2017 at 18:01

Like you I have always been cautious about the ‘Admin just around the corner’ stories.

However clearly monies have been loaned and spent and the ‘internal debt is racking up.

I would tend to suggest that the directors money pit is not bottomless and the more cock-ups like Pedro the more probability that folks will be having second thoughts about splashing their cash on their favourite team in blue.

What are your thoughts on what the next set of accounts may show?

Obviously revenues will be up and it may be that it could be evens-stevens with the spend for the last financial year.

However as I keep saying it costs £10-15m a year to keep the basic show on the road. Previous accounts said the first team bill had risen to £10m  so add that to that day to day operations figures.
Lord knows what the wage bill may be now, if it is the case Pedro’s signings are on good money.

Therefore T’Rangers need £20-25m of income just to stand still.

My prediction is a break even, good news story for the last financial year (propped up by the directors soft loans of course) but a storing up of major trouble for this ongoing year.

I can’t see any of the key players in the Blueroom willing to admit to failure (No surrender and all that nonsense) So like the Oldco, Admin will most likely come when either Hector or an outside creditor takes action for non-payment when the money finally runs out.

Never heard anymore about potential costs arising from Warburton et als compensation or the Wifi case!!

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:14 am - Oct 28, 2017


I assume that if the plan is to get rid of players and cut the remaining players wages then it would be TRFC Ltd which would go into administration and not it’s holding company. I believe it is TRFC Ltd which employs them. 

The interesting thing about that, as I understand it, is that the director’s and associates loaned the money to RIFC PLC, which in turn loaned it to TRFC Ltd, hence the “internal debt” between the holding company and it’s subsidiary

With regard whether it might happen.

Rangers were never going to go into administration, it happened.

The CVA was never going to be rejected, it happened.

Rangers were never going to be placed into liquidation, it happened.

The only real difference I can see here is that as far as I am aware HMRC are not a creditor.

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FinlochPosted on11:45 am - Oct 28, 2017


Football is about power.

It affords an incredibly disproportionate level of power and accordingly attracts people who want to be important.

It is a world full of favours to be given and often to be repaid.

For instance just who is touting Alex McLeish so hard that he has become the headline on Radio Shortbread yesterday and today and also in many of the papers I was reading at the barbers?

Why do the media columnists just print or record this crap?

Why do Radio Shortbread editors accept that on their morning programme they can mix journalists who question their guests aggressively, even to people like our First Minister and then give us sports broadcasts in the same programme where to put it mildly the sports editorial policy seems to be about looking after their pals and never asking real stuff 

And finally after a few days of well known ebt recipient Mr G Sounness free book sales publicity worth £Thousands and £Thousands from his pals in the media….

Scottish Football doesn’t need a strong Rangers, or a richer best selling rentaquote like G Sounness….

It needs more than that.

It needs a strong Arbroath, a strong Brechin City, a strong St Mirren, a strong Clachnacuddin, a strong East Kilbride and all the other teams.

It needs strong schools football and strong community clubs, – a lot more than imported foreign football mercenaries on stupid contracts where a weeks wage could make a huge difference elsewhere in the football pyramid.

To get there Scottish football needs strong and fair governance that looks beyond the old failed duopoly that BBC Shortbread and most football hacks seem to think is the only way.

Scottish Football needs to start putting the fans first rather than Sky sport and BT or various gambling organisations with their hollow self defeating budgets and values.

We need a clear out of old thinking and old management who keep trying to recreate something that never really worked in the first place.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on11:50 am - Oct 28, 2017


   I think that Charles Green should be commended for his incredible foresight in purchasing the Albion Car Park, now that Billy Davies is in the frame. 09
    I wonder if he will be “dogged” by reporters if he gets the gig? 10

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SmugasPosted on12:01 pm - Oct 28, 2017


Richard Gordon should just begin today’s show by saying “Only Rangers need a strong Rangers.  Competitive Scottish Football is just their euphemism for that.  Discuss”

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on4:03 pm - Oct 28, 2017


SmugasOctober 28, 2017 at 12:01   
Richard Gordon should just begin today’s show by saying “Only Rangers need a strong Rangers.  Competitive Scottish Football is just their euphemism for that.  Discuss”
___________________

That, Smugas, would be a pretty good repost to any hack, at any time, who pushes the nonsense of ‘Scottish football needs a strong…’!

Now Hearts might have benefitted financially from today’s rather large TRFC support, and in a lack-lustre season the money might be more welcome than the points that were up for grabs, but that was the first time for many a long year, and will be the very last time, that Hearts will benefit from a home league crowd of that size. So, from now on, Hearts (as an example for all other clubs apart from Celtic) will, from now on, benefit from three points gained from an ‘unstrong’ TRFC far more than they will, financially, from a ‘strong’ one!

At the moment, no one seems sure of the new Tynecastle capacity, so let’s say it’s 20,000. A ‘strong’ TRFC will fill the away end, so Hearts would gain 2 X 20,000 crowds from this, but probably not win the three points, having a detrimental effect on their season, and each next home crowd (wins having a better effect on sales then defeats). A ‘weak’ TRFC, on the other hand, with the required segregation of the now shared ‘away’ end, would see a crowd of 19,700, a very likely three points for Hearts, with the obvious positive knock-on effect.

What’s not to like about a ‘not strong’ TRFC?

Who, other than ‘not strong’ TRFC, would suffer from this scenario?

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SmugasPosted on5:08 pm - Oct 28, 2017


“But but but the negotiations…”

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SmugasPosted on6:51 pm - Oct 28, 2017


Joking apart.  The crux of Alex Rae’s arguement was that Sky would pay less for an uncompetitive OF package.  Would BT or BBCs offer for exclusive rights be less?  Can it possibly go less?

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wottpiPosted on7:42 pm - Oct 28, 2017


Off the Ball tonight.
Let’s have more of ex Scotland ladies goalie.
Has T’Rangers and the SFA sussed and not afraid to say it.
As an aside from today. Always like Kenny Miller as a player and today at Murrayfield he proved me right in my thinking. Gutted but hats off to the man.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on7:49 pm - Oct 28, 2017


wottpiOctober 28, 2017 at 19:42   
Off the Ball tonight.Let’s have more of ex Scotland ladies goalie.Has T’Rangers and the SFA sussed and not afraid to say it.As an aside from today. Always like Kenny Miller as a player and today at Murrayfield he proved me right in my thinking. Gutted but hats off to the man.
______________________

Can you enlighten us, WOTTPI? What did she say?

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John ClarkPosted on7:59 pm - Oct 28, 2017


wottpiOctober 28, 2017 at 19:42
‘….Let’s have more of ex Scotland ladies goalie.’
_____________
Yep, she spoke more sense more directly than many another guest on the show has done.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on8:13 pm - Oct 28, 2017


Hmm, talk about carts and horses, this tweet, from Jim Delahunt, seems to put the cart firmly before the horse. Surely, regardless of where McInnes is by Wednesday, he won’t be at Ibrox unless, and until, TRFC ‘come up with the cash’!

He tweeted:
‘For record, with a small r, McInnes will be at Rangers by Wed’day & Aberdeen will be compensated if Gers directors can come up with cash.’

If Delahunt is correct, but they don’t come up with the cash, either Stewart Milne will have to perform an act of craven cowardice, or his demand for the cash will put TRFC into administration!

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:35 pm - Oct 28, 2017


if Gers directors can come up with cash
IF a very small word with a very big meaning19

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bigboab1916Posted on1:26 am - Oct 29, 2017


Worrying times ahead with all the talk of needing a strong sevco, anyone sensing a second slight of hand and rule changes. 

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sannoffymesssoitizz

sannoffymesssoitizzPosted on1:33 am - Oct 29, 2017


Here’s a link taerradaze Affrrabaw. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09cbv87#playFrom 13:40 onwards Jemma Fay makes Alex Rae, Graham Spiers and their ilk sound daft.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on2:19 am - Oct 29, 2017


IMO, the Ibrox club is scared sh!tless that as time goes on they are deemed irrelevant.
Fine.
Scottish football owes them nothing.
Ideally TRFC goes bust – but there is no way back.
A poorer, but more honest league would have a wider appeal.

A club like TRFC is stuck in the 17th Century. If it cannot evolve then it should die.

Scottish football doesn’t need a strong ‘Rangers’ … it doesn’t need any ‘Rangers’ at all !

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:38 am - Oct 29, 2017


ALLYJAMBO
OCTOBER 28, 2017 at 20:13 

========================

I take it he means it will happen if they can come up with the cash.

Not that is will happen and Aberdeen will get the cash if they can raise it.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:42 am - Oct 29, 2017


CLUSTER ONE
OCTOBER 28, 2017 at 22:35
====================================

I’m fairly certain they can come up with the cash.

However will they want to provide even more loans to their loss making business. 

There has to come a point where throwing away your own personal money becomes … tiresome. 

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on10:20 am - Oct 29, 2017


Homunculus
October 29, 2017 at 08:42
“There has to come a point where throwing away your own personal money becomes … tiresome”
 
Or insane? 15
 
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on10:34 am - Oct 29, 2017


HOMUNCULUSOCTOBER 29, 2017 at 08:42
I’m fairly certain they can come up with the cash.
———–
with the ibrox recrutment of players a deposit and pay the rest in installments(then hope to offload before final installment is paid off the directors own backs and the final parts of installments not paid off by any transfer income recieved) it will be interesting how the ibrox directors put a package across.
There could be a Level5 output put on the Aberdeen board they are stopping McInnes joining the ibrox club with there demands for a payment the way the Aberdeen directors want it and not how the ibrox directors want to pay it.
Did the same thing not just happen with a player going to ibrox?

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:36 am - Oct 29, 2017


Surely there wouldn’t be any deal other than

“If someone wants to employ our manager, who has recently signed a new contract then they will have to pay us £1m (or whatever) to break that contract. Then he is free to do what he wants”

Given that Aberdeen were second in the league and in both cups last year, they cannot in a hurry to get rid of him.

Or are they, maybe an Aberdeen fan could enlighten us.

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John ClarkPosted on12:11 pm - Oct 29, 2017


HomunculusOctober 29, 2017 at 11:36
‘….Given that Aberdeen were second in the league and in both cups last year, they cannot in a hurry to get rid of him.’
__________
“Let’s-move-along Milne” has made it clear that he is ready to accept the glossing over of very dubious SFA actions that evidenced ,in the view of many people who are looking for Truth,the abandonment of Sporting -and possibly financial- Integrity.

Not too difficult to imagine such an one being extremely accommodating to the board at Ibrox.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on12:39 pm - Oct 29, 2017


UPTHEHOOPSOCTOBER 6, 2017 at 18:32 35 0  Rate This 
So that’s over four weeks now since the SFA announced the Compliance Officer would investigate the awarding of a European Licence to Rangers in 2012. Call me cynical, but the amount of information in the public domain over this matter makes it seem to me four weeks is a rather long time. The SFA will surely be in possession of all they need, and as I understand it Celtic have every piece of information the Resolution 12 people have made public. Is that the problem? Has the apparent narrow focus of the investigation into whether Rangers lied now causing an issue given others already know there is a lot more to it than that? I don’t know the answer but I would not be at all surprised if the only thing holding up the announcement is finding a QC who will say no action can now be taken. As I said though, call me cynical! 
——————
It’s over 7 weeks now and still no news14

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tony

tonyPosted on12:40 pm - Oct 29, 2017


JOHN CLARK
mad scenario,mcinnes to sevco tommy wright to aberdeen,st johnstone left in lurch

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erniePosted on12:46 pm - Oct 29, 2017


My poll (i.e. the lads at the pub after the game) of supporters of the invincible (excluding Celtic, other Euro teams and cup games) Dons is that they generally don’t want McInnes to leave.  There is an expectation that he will move on some time, everyone does eventually, and the hope is that it is an upward step and definitely not the rangers.  In saying that there is an element of “so be it” in that he will crash and burn there anyway and that the Dons will have the wherewithal to source a decent replacement.  The feeling is we are reasonably well run and the manager is one, albeit popular and important, part of the overall unit.
The most prevalent view is that he’d be a mug to take it and that the weegia appear to believe it’s a shoe in but probably are not aware that his, and his immediate staff’s, recent contract extension included a fair whack of salary increase.  Probably not quite Pedro and definitely not Super Ally levels but not their mickey mouse, provincial club expectations.  Add to that the compensation and that McInnes is nae daft and will presumably want verification of funds available rather than Richard Wilsonesque pish and it’s hard to see it happening.  Fitba’s a funny business so you never know.
My personal view is that their board, and the media, hope he is saturated with rangersness (35 appearances after all) and will walk to Ibrokes to join the sash bash. I suspect he won’t.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on12:56 pm - Oct 29, 2017


HOMUNCULUSOCTOBER 29, 2017 at 11:36 0 0 Rate This
Surely there wouldn’t be any deal other than
“If someone wants to employ our manager, who has recently signed a new contract then they will have to pay us £1m (or whatever) to break that contract. Then he is free to do what he wants”
Given that Aberdeen were second in the league and in both cups last year, they cannot in a hurry to get rid of him.
Or are they, maybe an Aberdeen fan could enlighten us.
*********************************************
I’m sure it comes as no great surprise that McInnes is immensely popular with the Aberdeen support, and it’s about more than just getting the first team knocked into competitive shape but also other aspects of the Club, top to bottom. Overall the Club is in much better shape after a series of terrible managers and mismanagement at the Club for many years. 

Therefore, it will also come as no surprise that Milne will be hung drawn and quartered if he lets McInnes go without a fight, especially to “them”.  Obviously we can’t do anything if they throw the required level of compensation at it but anything less will be unacceptable. 

That said, McInnes is not daft. He’s onto a good thing at Aberdeen and he surely knows that Sevco is a basket case.  The treatment of Warburton and Caixinha cannot have gone unnoticed.  I’d be surprised if he jumps ship for anything less than a Premiership Club. 

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AuldheidPosted on3:04 pm - Oct 29, 2017


Cluster one
UptheHoops.
From Kerrydalestreet.co.uk 
A kind of Res12 update posted on CQN yesterday.
Auldheid on 27th October 2017 2:30 pm 
 If you are heading for the game v Killie tomorrow and have mates who don’t use social media, encourage them to buy a copy of Not The View. 
 
There is an item recapping Res12 and setting out how matters stand including the Traverso letter. 
 
There might be further developments in the coming week before AGM from Res12ers, so it might be another week/s before publishing in social media happens, but the idea is to inform as many as possible before the AGM of where matters stand. 
 
At start of September Celtic released the correspondence between them and SFA after July where one reasonable interpretation is the SFA told Celtic (and the SPFL clubs) to Effoff. 
 
 
Unless a satisfactory explanation that clears SFA of complicity in 2011 emerges before or after the AGM, Celtic and fellow clubs will be entitled to tell the SFA in the nicest possible way – “You Effoff. This is going to UEFA and/or a Judicial Review”
____ Remember it’s taken 4 years to get to this point. 4 years of SFA prevarication that would  not be necessary if there was no case to answer.
Celtic are well aware of what took place during the period Res12 covered from March to September 2011 and SFA know this.

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John ClarkPosted on3:50 pm - Oct 29, 2017


AuldheidOctober 29, 2017 at 15:04
‘…4 years of SFA prevarication that would not be necessary if there was no case to answer.’
___________
I suggest that it has taken 4 years for the SFA to devise a way of rigging matters that might allow the Compliance Officer to report that, yes, the RFC that is in Liquidation swore on a stack of Bibles that they were not in debt to HMRC, and, the innocent SFA relied on their word and are now suitably shocked and horrified to find that they were lied to.Unfortunately, though, they can take no action against the club in Liquidation because [of course!]  a UEFA licence once awarded illicitly cannot be withdrawn even when it is subsequently discovered that it was awarded illicitly! (a bit like player eligibiity)
They must have been damned sure of themselves enough to refer what RFC(IL) did, while not allowing an examination of what they themselves did.
I think it is possible to imagine that we may be dealing with extremely frightened but slippery customers who might conceivably,theoretically, and in the mind of some people, be trying to ensure that no criminal charges are brought.
If the challenge had come 4 years ago……

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on4:14 pm - Oct 29, 2017


AULDHEIDOCTOBER 29, 2017 at 15:04
———
Thanks for update.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on4:15 pm - Oct 29, 2017


ZEROTOLERANCE1903
OCTOBER 29, 2017 at 12:56
======================================

Thanks, that makes much more sense to me than the media notion that if Rangers come calling any club will just stand aside and any manager will just jump at the chance.

Particularly as you point out after the way the last few managers have been dealt with, the state of the club and the question of what resources they would be available.

Re any compensation in installments, it is questionable whether Rangers (either one) should be taking on further debts of this size the way things are just now. 

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on4:30 pm - Oct 29, 2017


SICKOFITALLOCTOBER 28, 2017 at 08:31 27 1  Rate This 
Been out of the loop for a while could anyone tell me if the subject of stripping the titles is now out of the equation or is there still hope thanks 
————–
I think the above post by AULDHEIDOCTOBER 29, 2017 at 15:04
 now answers your point.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on6:08 pm - Oct 29, 2017


Someone asked the other day about Mark Warburton.
—————–
Mark Warburton has a day in court coming too; he claims the club’s story about his resignation is a lie,
https://thecelticblog.com/2017/10/blogs/last-week-left-no-doubt-that-sevco-is-british-footballs-most-dysfunctional-club/
——————-
If i am correct? i remember king saying this had gone away.Does mark warburton have a day in court coming?

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redetinPosted on6:23 pm - Oct 29, 2017


zerotolerance1903October 29, 2017 at 12:56
“McInnes is not daft. He’s onto a good thing at Aberdeen and he surely knows that Sevco is a basket case.”

To which I would add that if MacInnes turns down a Sevco approach, the latter is going to take it as a serious slap in the face cos no-one turns down The Rangers. Watch the media spin that one!

McInnes will surely ponder on the near certainty of European football, hopefully for the next few seasons; on the uncertainty of life in the The Rangers seat, following “fill yer boots” McCoist, McDowall, McCall, Warburton, Murty, Caixinha, Murty; and on the debt-ridden state of “the club”.

Unless McInnes is totally blind to the The Rangers financial position, then he’d want a pretty tightly written contract. He’ll also want to know what transfer money is available. Success with the current fractured squad is unlikely.

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upthehoopsPosted on6:26 pm - Oct 29, 2017


WILDWOODOCTOBER 28, 2017 at 08:09 
Scottish Football Needs A Strong *Rangers eh?

A statement made frequently over all media platforms through a compliant media, usually by an EBT recipient.

You would think *they were being held back, unfairly sanctioned, restricted from operating.

===============================

The mystifying part for me is there always seems to be an unsaid comment but nonetheless a belief that they are somehow entitled to be strong. Perhaps I just don’t recollect it but I genuinely don’t think the same sense of entitlement was there pre-Souness, followed not long after by Murray. The absolute financial falsehood of all those years seems to have completely warped the thinking of the supporters. If they want Rangers to be strong then how do they believe it should happen. There is no Scottish owned bank to throw money at them, and the ship has long sailed on running an unlawful tax avoidance scheme. 

I have often thought that the so called Souness revolution was the worst thing to happen to them, and indeed to the Scottish game. Souness and his recent puzzling ‘demand’ for Rangers to be strong only reinforces my view.  What does he want – Should there be a levy on the season tickets of all other clubs? Should they receive lottery funding? Should the Scottish Government use income tax to fund them? 

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SmugasPosted on7:13 pm - Oct 29, 2017


Perhaps that’s why they ‘miss’ a strong Scottish Football as opposed to a strong Rangers.  The theory being we should all pay for it, just like last time!

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upthehoopsPosted on7:46 pm - Oct 29, 2017


AULDHEIDOCTOBER 29, 2017 at 15:04
==========================

I simply can’t help thinking the Compliance Officer has told the SFA they are completely and utterly snookered on this one. 

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:21 pm - Oct 29, 2017


SMUGAS
OCTOBER 29, 2017 at 19:13  
Perhaps that’s why they ‘miss’ a strong Scottish Football as opposed to a strong Rangers.  The theory being we should all pay for it, just like last time!
========================================

I take it by “we” you mean every taxpayer in the UK and not just Scottish football supporters.

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zerotolerance1903

zerotolerance1903Posted on8:42 pm - Oct 29, 2017


Also regarding McInnes, bear in mind that he turned down an offer from Sunderland this summer.  He would have had a handsome salary and transfer money to spend, but just didn’t fancy it.  As I said, no daft.  

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on10:05 pm - Oct 29, 2017


   When Celtic bought Scot Allen, didn’t the Big Liar thank them, saying that the loss to Hibs, was worth more than the net gain to Sevco. Whether they are seriously after McInnes or not, I have no idea, but I would expect them either way, to attempt to gain some unsettling advantage over their rivals, by letting it be known they are. 
   As to whether they can afford him or not via more loans or whatever, again I have no idea, but can confidently say that it was never to be a part of this season’s budget. An unforeseen additional expense is a given. 
   Looking ahead, season ticket income is a long way off. Like most club’s it may fluctuate in relation to performances.  Opting for stealing McInnes now, (or anybody) may be a gamble too far in the hope of improving performances.
    I would suggest that Murty may be given the season, and a new “permanent” manager  might have to wait until the ST feeding frenzy begins.
    Until then, they can always make some shouty noises and column inches, as and when required. 

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John ClarkPosted on11:18 pm - Oct 29, 2017


Out of left field, (and very happy tonight that we had a delightful Skype with the granweans this morning) can I just get out of my system a niggly ‘same club/new club’ point that has been bugging me because I couldn’t articulate it properly or clearly.

It is this: the Rangers of 1872 vintage created a ‘standard security’ over Auchenhowie away back in 2001/2002 in favour of the Scottish Sports Council ( which became Sportscotland)

When Charlie boy’s SevcoScotland  acquired the ‘subjects’ [ title DMB65871 in the Land Register of the Registers of Scotland], he was obliged by the Companies Act to let Companies House (CH) know the details of the charge on the property.

He duly did so, and this was certified by CH on 15.6.12.

SevcoScotland changed its name to ‘The Rangers Football Club Limited’.

It seems to me that it took a helluva long time for the Scottish Sports Council to realise that “The Rangers Football Club Ltd” was not the legal entity [ Rangers Football Club plc of 1872 vintage] that had created the ‘standard security’ in their favour.

The possibility of TRFC Ltd going tots up and creating some doubt about the Scottish Sports Council’s claim on assets seems not immediately to have entered the minds of the civil servants/ministers who knew of the ‘standard security’.

Perhaps they do not read the sports pages or listen to the news!

Realise it they eventually did: In 2015!

In which year they got Paul Murray, director of TRFC Ltd to sign a fresh ‘standard security’ on 06.05.2015, on the identical basis of the contracts of 2001/2002.

That is, they made sure legally that what they had signed and agreed with the old Rangers of 1872 had been legally firmed up with a new legal entity-Sevco/TRFC Ltd of 2012.

And that, incidentally, doesn’t say a hell of lot about the sharpness of the Scottish Sports Council in looking after our money.

Or maybe in their innocence they took it for granted that TRFC Ltd was too big to fail!

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John ClarkPosted on12:29 am - Oct 30, 2017


“In the end I decided against it because I have no experience of being in a relegation battle and trying to save a club”

How sensible an approach for any football manager!

Michel Preud’homme , being touted as a possible for TRFC Ltd, has maybe given other possible candidates for the Ibrox job  something to think about.

Such as having :
a degree of real awareness of the reality of things in a struggling club, where the struggling is related

to a divided Board,

to a Board whose chairman is certainly about to be cold-shouldered by the financial world or may be facing contempt of court charges,

to a Board who have been told that their Chairman is penniless, while they are expected to pony up to cover the running costs

to a board which hires managers on God knows what basis, and sacks them at enormous cost in terms of PR and court actions and a sort of ‘third world’ characterisation of hopelesss inefficiency, misdirection, and scattergun ill-will to the rest of Scottish Football.

Most of us would wish we were, or had been, able to play for our particular clubs.

Most of us would absolutely fantasise about being manager of our particular clubs.

Most of us know in our gut that if we were in McInnes’  situation we would find it difficult to balance common sense and realism against the ‘glory’.

And the realism of someone like Preud’homme might help us.

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TrisidiumPosted on2:31 am - Oct 30, 2017


News that the SFSA has partnered with Two Point One (of the Barking mad stenography tendency).
We have sent them a message on Twitter tonight

‪”
I hope that you will reconsider the earlier judgement. Truth is important to us. If 2.1 are partners, we can’t be directly supportive‬.

Of course individuals may not see this as a dealbreaker, but when people who disseminate falsehoods on a systematic basis are hired to get a message across, trust is a casualty – a fatal one in my view.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:07 am - Oct 30, 2017


TRISIDIUMOCTOBER 30, 2017 at 02:31

=======================

Couldn’t agree more. 2.1 try and sell themselves as being different from the mainstream, when they are in fact part of the same circle of wagons protecting the SFA and ‘Rangers’.

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Cluster One

Cluster OnePosted on7:13 am - Oct 30, 2017


SFSA We are also be delighted to announce a partnership with our friends @TheTwoPointOne who will share much of our research findings.
Terrible decision.

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ChristyboyPosted on9:58 am - Oct 30, 2017


The SFSA. Are these the guys that we’re waiting to hear back about the results of the questionnaire? From Germany I think? 

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John ClarkPosted on11:44 am - Oct 30, 2017


TrisidiumOctober 30, 2017 at 02:31
‘…News that the SFSA has partnered with Two Point One..’
_______
Who the heck are Two Point One? 

I’ve never heard of them/it.

But if they are of the ‘Big Lie’ tendency, the SFSA has shot itself in the foot for ‘partnering’ with them, as far as I’m concerned.

Essentially, all the cosmetic improvement in the functioning of Scottish Football that the SFSA might succeed in achieving will be meaningless if the Big Lie which in effect denies the very essence of sporting competition,is allowed to continue.

Partnering with those who are prepared to foster and promote the Big Lie has to be a no-no.

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wottpiPosted on12:34 pm - Oct 30, 2017


ALLYJAMBOOCTOBER 28, 2017 at 16:03 

At the moment, no one seems sure of the new Tynecastle capacity, so let’s say it’s 20,000. A ‘strong’ TRFC will fill the away end, so Hearts would gain 2 X 20,000 crowds from this, but probably not win the three points, having a detrimental effect on their season, and each next home crowd (wins having a better effect on sales then defeats). A ‘weak’ TRFC, on the other hand, with the required segregation of the now shared ‘away’ end, would see a crowd of 19,700, a very likely three points for Hearts, with the obvious positive knock-on effect.

Give me a pint of what you are on Ally. 🙂

Agree and get where you are coming from but that was the weakest/poorest team out of Ibrox for some time at Murrayfield and Hearts were generally mince, over the piece.

A weak or strong T’Rangers will have very little effect on the current Hearts side or indeed over the short to medium terms. It is the performance of our own team and management across a whole season that will end up effecting our points haul and home ticket sales.

Hopefully with a few returning from injury, a clear out, some January additions and a run of decent home game performances in the revamped Tynecastle things will improve. But that is down to Hearts and Hearts alone.

As I keep saying, unless there is a real sugar daddy around the corner (and I don’t believe there is) despite having a decent income the level of regular outgoings mean T’Rangers are just a bang average side that can be beaten on any day in the same way Aberdeen are vulnerable from time to time.

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on12:47 pm - Oct 30, 2017


Looks like antifreeze will be on the menu for ex Pedro’s boys this winter.
 
Forecasters fear Britain could be battered by coldest winter for FIVE years
Senior meteorologist Alan Reppert,  “There is a higher-than-normal potential for temperatures below -10C further north, and also cold temperatures further south.”

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on12:50 pm - Oct 30, 2017


wottpiOctober 30, 2017 at 12:34

I agree entirely that our team is crap right now, they might end up crap forever, but that doesn’t alter my point that a ‘not strong’ TRFC will be easier for a crap Hearts to beat, than a ‘strong’ one, and winning always has a knock on effect. Saturday’s crowd showed that there could be a financial benefit to Scottish football from the large crowds they bring, but that could only be a significant benefit if clubs, like Hearts, could house crowds well in excess of 20,000.

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wottpiPosted on1:11 pm - Oct 30, 2017


ALLYJAMBOOCTOBER 30, 2017 at 12:50

The T’Rangers support on Saturday just shows what many have said. Regardless of what side of the debate you stand on there are plenty folks who are not interested in EBT’s Oldco/newco, Euro licences etc and just want to go along and support their team.

For all the talk on the blue tinged interweb of boycotting other clubs who are seen as enemies of the people the Bears took all their 14k allocation for Murrayfield and probably would have taken more if offered.

Now they might not take the same number to Ross County but a short trip east for a day out to see  the Capitals Big Team 🙂 and visiting Murrayfield is clearly one that is attractive. 

Not sure what cost of hire is but if money was the issue then both Hibs and Hearts could well find it  worthwhile taking both T’Rangers and Celtic to Murrayfield each season if cash can be made.

However at the end of the day for me it is all about both the Capital teams and everyone else being the best they can be within the confines of their own stadiums and financial resources.

Decent team on the park and minimal location to away teams is the way for me.

As for Murrayfield I’d take that for big internationals and cup games any day before Hampdump.

As Gemma Fay said on Off the Ball the SFA are most likely using the SRU angle as bait to improve anything Hampden Ltd have to do to host the Euro 2020 games.

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on1:27 pm - Oct 30, 2017


wottpiOctober 30, 2017 at 13:11

…Not sure what cost of hire is but if money was the issue then both Hibs and Hearts could well find it  worthwhile taking both T’Rangers and Celtic to Murrayfield each season if cash can be made.
________________________

Bit of an anathema for us here on SFM, I’d have thought. Giving up home advantage for the sake of a few (OK a lot) of bums on seats. If the day ever comes when Hearts and/or Hibs decide to do that, then sporting integrity goes right out the door. In my opinion, the only way it would make sense, and be acceptable in a sporting context, would be for Hearts and Hibs to agree to play each other there for all matches, or one home match each, in a season.

Imagine Aberdeen’s justified umbrage if, chasing Celtic in a seriously do-able manner, Celtic had two matches against both Hearts and Hibs at a ground not only half full of their own supporters, but also having no ‘home advantage’ for their opponents!

Tynecastle and Easter Road confer an advantage, however small, to the home clubs, and it would be a disgrace if either should give it up purely for the sake of finance!

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