UEFA Club Licensing. – To Comply or not to Comply ?
On 16 April 2018 The UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) adjudicatory chamber took decisions in the cases of four clubs that had been referred to it by the CFCB chief investigator, concerning the non-fulfilment of the club licensing criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.
Such criteria must be complied with by the clubs in order to be granted the licence required to enter the UEFA club competitions.
The cases of two clubs::
Olympique des Alpes SA (Sion Switzerland )
and
FC Irtysh (Kazakhstan)
are of particular interest to those following the events under which the SFA awarded a UEFA License to Rangers FC in 2011 currently under investigation by the SFA Compliance Officer because
- The case documentation tell us how UEFA wish national associations to apply UEFA FFP rules
- The cases tell us what might have happened to Rangers FC in 2012 had they not gone into liquidation and as a consequence avoided the same type of sanctions that UEFA applied to Sion and Irtysh.
FC Sion (Olympique des Alpes SA)
Here we are told how the Swiss FL and then the UEFA CFCB acted in respect of FC Sion in 2017 where a misleading statement was made in the Sion UEFA licensing application.
Full details can be read at
but this is a summary.
In April 2017 the Swiss FL (SFL) granted a licence to Sion FC but indicated that a Disciplinary case was pending.
In July 2017 the CFCB, as part of their licence auditing programme, carried out a compliance audit on 3 clubs to determine if licences had been properly awarded. Sion was one of those clubs.
The subsequent audit by Deloitte LLP discovered Sion had an overdue payable on a player, amounting to €950,000, owed to another football club (FC Sochaux ) at 31st March 2017 as a result of a transfer undertaken by Sion before 31st December 2016, although the €950,000 was paid in early June 2017.
Deloitte produced a draft report of their findings that was passed to SFL and Sion for comment on factual accuracy and comment on the findings. Sion responded quickly enabling Deloitte to present a final report to the CFCB Investigation Unit. In response to the Deloitte final report Sion stated:
“il apparaît aujourd’hui qu’il existait bel et bien un engagement impayé découlant d’une activité de transfert. Ce point est admis” translated as
“it now appears that there was indeed an outstanding commitment arising from transfer activity. This is admitted”
What emerged as the investigation proceeded was that the Swiss FL Licensing Committee, after granting the license in April and as a result of a Sochaux complaint of non-payment to FIFA, had reason to refer Sion’s application to their Disciplinary Commission in May 2017 with regard to the submission of potentially misleading information by FC Sion to the SFL on 7th April 2017 as part of its licensing documentation.
Sion had declared
“Written confirmation: no overdue payables arising from transfer activities”, signed by the Club’s president, stating that as at 31 March 2017 there were no overdue payables towards other football clubs. In particular, the Club indicated that the case between FC Sion and FC Sochaux regarding the transfer of the player Ishmael Yartey was still under dispute.
The SFL Disciplinary Commission came to the conclusion that FC Sion had no intention to mislead the SFL, but indeed submitted some incorrect licensing documentation; the SFL Disciplinary Commission further confirmed that the total amount of €950,000 had been paid by the Club to FC Sochaux on 7 June 2017. Because of the inaccurate information submitted, the SFL Disciplinary Commission decided to impose a fine of CHF 8,000 on the Club.
Whilst this satisfied the SFL Disciplinary process the CFCB deemed it not enough to justify the granting of the licence as UEFA intended their FFP rules to be applied.
Sion provided the CFCB with a number of reasons on the basis of which no sanction should be imposed. In particular, the Club admitted that there was an overdue payable as at 31 March 2017, but stated that the mistake in the document dated 7 April 2017 was the result of a misinterpretation by the club’s responsible person for dealing with the licence (the “Club’s licence manager”), who is not a lawyer. The Club affirmed that it never had the intention to conceal the information and had provisioned the amount due for payment and that, in any case, it has already been sanctioned by the SFL for providing the wrong information.
The CFCB Investigation Unit accepted that the Sion application, although inaccurate, was a one off misrepresentation and not a forgery, (as in intended to deceive ) but that nevertheless an overdue payable did exist at 31st March and a licence should not have been granted.
Based on their findings, the CFCB Chief Investigator decided to refer the case to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber and suggested a disciplinary measure to be imposed on FC Sion by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber, such measure consisting of a fine of €235,000, corresponding to the UEFA Revenues the Club gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
The CFCB Investigatory Chamber submitted that it was appropriate to impose a fine corresponding to all the UEFA revenues the Club gained by participating in the competition considering the fact that FC Sion should not have been admitted to the competition for failing to meet one of its admission criteria.
The Adjudicatory Chambers took all the circumstances (see paras 91 to 120 at http://tiny.cc/i8sxsy ) into consideration and reached the following key decisions.
- FC Sion failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 49(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the SFL not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Sion breached Articles 13(1) and 43(1)(i) of the CL&FFP Regulations. (Documents complete and correct)
- To exclude FC Sion from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next two (2) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19 and 2019/20).
- To impose a fine of two hundred and thirty five thousand Euros (€235,000) on FC Sion.
- FC Sion is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
It is now public knowledge that an actual liability of tax due before 31stDecember 2010 towards HMRC, was admitted by Rangers FC before 31st March 2011.
This liability was described as “potential” in Rangers Interim accounts audited by Grant Thornton.
“Note 1: The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.”
The English Oxford Dictionary definition of potential is:
Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.
Which was not true as the liability had already been “developed” so could not be potential.
This was repeated by Chairman Alistair Johnson in his covering Interim Accounts statement
“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. “ where he also added
“Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.”
This could be taken as disputing the liability but In fact the resolution to the assessments raised would have been payment of the actual liability, something that never happened.
In the Sion case it was accepted the misleading statement was a one off misrepresentation, but at the monitoring stages at June 2011 in Ranger’s case the status of the liability continued to be misrepresented and in September the continuing discussions reason was repeated, along with a claim of an instalment paid whose veracity is highly questionable.
The Swiss FL Licensing Committee did at least refer the case to their Disciplinary Committee when they realised a misleading statement might have been made. The SFA however in August 2011, when Sherriff Officers called at Ibrox for payment of the overdue tax , did no such thing and pulled up the drawbridge for six years, one that the Compliance Officer is now finally charged with lowering.
The case of FC Irtysh of Kazakhstan is set out in full at http://tiny.cc/y9sxsy and is a bit more straightforward but is nevertheless useful to compare with events in 2011 in Scotland.
Unlike Rangers FC , FC Irtysh properly disclosed that they had an overdue payable to the Kazakhstan tax authorities at the monitoring point at 30th June 2017. This caused the CFCB Investigatory Unit to seek further information with regard to the position at 31st March
It transpired that Irtysh had declared an overdue payable at 31st March but cited their financial position (awaiting sponsor money) as a reason for non payment to the Kazakhstan FA who accepted it and granted the licence. The outstanding tax was paid in September 2107.
The outcome of the CFCB Investigation was a case put to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber who agreed with the CFCB Investigation Unit that a licence should not have been granted and recommended that Irtysh be fined the equivalent of the UEFA prize money, (that had been withheld in any case whilst CFCB investigated.)
The CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber however decided that a fine was not sufficient in sporting deterrent terms and ruled that:
- FC Irtysh failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 50bis(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the FFK not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- To withhold four hundred and forty thousand Euros (€440,000) corresponding to the UEFA revenues FC Irtysh gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
- To exclude FC Irtysh from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next three (3) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons). This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of (3) three years. This exclusion must be enforced in case the Club participates again in a UEFA club competition having not fulfilled the licence criteria required to obtain the UEFA licence in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Irtysh is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings. “
The deferral was because unlike Rangers FC, FC Irtysh had properly disclosed to the licensor the correct & accurate financial information required, so the exclusion was deferred for a probationary period of (3) years.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
From the foregoing it could be deduced that had Rangers FC qualified for the Champions League (or European League) and not gone bust as a result and so not entered liquidation BUT it became public knowledge by 2012 that a licence had been wrongly and possibly fraudulently granted then
- Rangers would have been fined the equivalent of their earnings from their participation in the UEFA competitions in 2011
- At least a two year ban from UEFA Competitions would have been imposed, but more likely three in view of repeated incorrect statements.
- The consequences of both would have been as damaging for Rangers survival as the real life consequences of losing to Malmo and Maribor in the qualifying rounds of the Champions and European Leagues.
Karma eh!
Interestingly in the UEFA COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITY REPORT 2015 – 2017 , the CFCB investigatory chamber recommended that both the Kazakhstan FA and Swiss FA as licensors
“pay particular attention to the adequate disclosure of the outstanding amounts payable towards other football clubs, in respect of employees and towards social/tax authorities, which must be disclosed separately;
Would the same recommendation apply to the Scottish FA with regard to their performance in 2011 and will the SFA responses thereafter to shareholders in a member club be examined for compliance with best governance practice by the SFA Compliance Officer investigating the processing of the UEFA Licence in 2011?
This would be a welcome step in fully restoring trust in the SFA.
SHUGAPRIL 30, 2018 at 13:59
I wouldn’t be surprised if some kind of loan deal was hatched if it could save T’Rangers cash.
Can’t see anything on whether or not it has happened before or indeed if it is allowed but my gut feeling is why not?
If it can be done to help develop players, farming them out to lower leagues etc to gain ‘coal face’ experience, then why not the same with coaches if it suits both parties.
wottpiApril 30, 2018 at 14:17
SHUGAPRIL 30, 2018 at 13:59I wouldn’t be surprised if some kind of loan deal was hatched if it could save T’Rangers cash.Can’t see anything on whether or not it has happened before or indeed if it is allowed but my gut feeling is why not?If it can be done to help develop players, farming them out to lower leagues etc to gain ‘coal face’ experience, then why not the same with coaches if it suits both parties.
__________
I can see the obvious benefits to TRFC, or any struggling club, in a manager loan arrangement, and the benefit to the manager and his parent club, but would any sane club board allow an uncommitted manager the millions of pounds to spend that would be required to fulfil either party’s ambitions?
It’s one thing taking a loan player to bolster the squad, who, if he fails, has only cost the club their share of his wages, but to allow someone to come in and spend a (very?) large part of the club’s income must surely be a risk too far, even for TRFC.
My fear with the Stevie G appointment is, if it fails, the rest of Scottish football will get the blame – hammerthrowers , piss-poor facilities , destructive duopoly , hatred , abysmal governance ,winter break and split all contributing to a malaise that prevents us from doing anything at world or European level, including qualifying for tournament finals . I’m struggling to find a positive in this , and would still if he wended up at Firhill .
shug April 30, 2018 at 13:59
Anyone else hear that the stevie g to sevco is a loan deal I’m not sure loaning a manager should be allowed but I suppose when you have no dosh. The footy yobs thing as if any sane minded football fan would want contaminated by that lot of really poor losers.Will sky want their money back from sevco seeing as they wouldn’t allow anyone to answer questions.
====================================
Hearts loaned youth coach Liam Fox to Cowdenbeath as their manager last season, as part of his development, but left with them propping up the whole of the SPFL.
No news on the TRFC website about Gerrard…and no mention whatsoever about their POTY Awards last night either.
Of course, my own interest would be piqued if Gerrard did go to TRFC, simply because I would be curious to see how he would go about such a tough appointment. But I think I would be interested in whoever he takes the hot seat, for the same reasons.
Like many neutral fans, over the years I liked Gerrard as a player and enjoyed watching him control midfield…so mibbees I don’t want that memory tarnished by an association with a dodgy club?
Anyways, if he is allegedly worth GBP 50M, then he must be surrounded by savvy agents/advisers, and doubt he would sell himself short in any deal?
IMO even the loan of a manager would help as I doubt T’rangers could be any more splintered a group than they already are. He may even be allowed to bring a few of the more talented youngsters with him for a small loan fee every little helps and could potentially tip those who may be dithering about paying for their SB’s back onside.
SHUG APRIL 30 13.59.
Where did this originate from?
Steven Gerrard to Rangers clearly doesn’t fit the narrative some people are attempting to promote.
As i said in a earlier post the positives would outweigh the negatives in my opinion. (Thanks Corrupt Official for your explanation yesterday 22.28 , i now know where you were coming from)
NAWLITEAPRIL 30, 2018 at 14:07
That should be posted on TRFC-facing sites to give them a clue .
ALLYJAMBOAPRIL 30, 2018 at 14:39
I get your point but with a Director of Football in charge for the host club (as per Mark Allen) the upcoming ‘on loan’ manager can be involved in the squad development process to the extent of putting forward a list of requirements for his vision but not take on the fiscal responsibility. The DoF can then oversee final player identification, acquisitions, general expenditure etc. That leaves the ‘on loan’ coach/manager to concentrate on the coaching side of things, game day management etc etc.
Maybe not ideal if the upcoming coach wants control ala McInnes but it could work.
However, as Easyjambo says re Cowdenbeath it could all go tits up regardless.
SLIMJIM
APRIL 30, 2018 at 15:43
SHUG APRIL 30 13.59.
Where did this originate from?
—————————————-
I posted about it at 1939 last night.
I saw it on the Sky Sports website, where it was attributed to Andy Dunn of the Daily Mirror.
He apparently said it on Sky’s Sunday Supplement, a programme you brought up yesterday. Didn’t you watch it all?
Action underway on the court front tomorrow?
PETITION DEPARTMENT
UNSTARRED MOTIONS
P418/18 Pet: The Panel on takeovers and mergers for interdict – Dentons
It’s a different case number from the original one on King but I suspect that it is related.
Note to JC – I don’t know if the TRFC v Green is going ahead tomorrow. It’s not listed on the rolls, but there have been 3 unopposed motions in the last week.
PADDY MALARKEYAPRIL 30, 2018 at 14:53
My fear with the Stevie G appointment is, if it fails, the rest of Scottish football will get the blame – hammerthrowers , piss-poor facilities , destructive duopoly , hatred , abysmal governance ,winter break and split all contributing to a malaise that prevents us from doing anything at world or European level, including qualifying for tournament finals . I’m struggling to find a positive in this , and would still if he wended up at Firhill .
========================================
The rest of Scottish football got the blame for Rangers cheating HMRC, they got the blame for Rangers being liquidated, and they got the blame for the newco having to apply to join the league. So you are probably correct in your thoughts.
JINGO JIMSIE APRIL 30 16.06
Yes i did and that is not quite how he described it. “it,s ALMOST as though Liverpool are sending SG on loan” & ” it’s LIKE they have told him”. Not exactly a loan deal then is it?.My take on it was if he has a degree of success at Rangers he will be considered for the top job.
Spooky. The new club he’d be going to are almost like Rangers.
Re the interdict request – such an action is normally to stop something happening, so I’m not clear in my own mind what would be stopped, since the TOP actually wants King to do something.
Unless, of course, it’s the execution of the “could shoulder” thus stopping King doing business with any FCA registered organisation.
Maybe it is to stop him acting as a director of a UK company.
I’m not good at speculation.
Phil’s latest is suggesting that Murty was not allowed into the dressing room at all yesterday, either for pre-game talk or at half-time!
If true, then Murty should have resigned immediately after the game, IMO.
Regardless of what he has been promised to Murty – if anything – from the Blue Room, it would be a shocking way to treat any employee who is just trying to help out his employer – by temporarily filling a position several grades above his own experience level and abilities.
SLIMJIM
APRIL 30, 2018 at 16:21
JINGO JIMSIE APRIL 30 16.06
Yes i did and that is not quite how he described it.
—————————————————–
With respect, that’s what the written content on the Sky Sports website imparted last night. I hadn’t seen Dunn speaking on the Sunday Supplement when I posted last night & I accept that he said ‘almost’ & ‘like’ when on TV.
The headline today is still ‘Liverpool loaning Steven Gerrard to Rangers, says Andy Dunn’, although it’s now qualified within the article.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11352064/liverpool-loaning-steven-gerrard-to-rangers-says-andy-dunn
EASYJAMBOAPRIL 30, 2018 at 16:40
Is it to stop King taking the piss 🙂
James Doleman has come up with a Wiki reference on interdicts which states:
“In Scots law, an interdict is a court order to stop someone from breaching someone else’s rights.”
As the minor shareholders rights are being breached as a result of King’s non offer, then I guess that it could be used as a further enforcement action.
wottpiApril 30, 2018 at 16:01
ALLYJAMBOAPRIL 30, 2018 at 14:39I get your point but with a Director of Football in charge for the host club (as per Mark Allen) the upcoming ‘on loan’ manager can be involved in the squad development process to the extent of putting forward a list of requirements for his vision but not take on the fiscal responsibility. The DoF can then oversee final player identification, acquisitions, general expenditure etc. That leaves the ‘on loan’ coach/manager to concentrate on the coaching side of things, game day management etc etc. Maybe not ideal if the upcoming coach wants control ala McInnes but it could work.However, as Easyjambo says re Cowdenbeath it could all go tits up regardless.
_______________
The thing is, they are going to have to spend millions to build the squad they need to get to where they believe they should be – making a meaningful challenge to Celtic – with an on-loan manager who will be off at the first call if he is successful, with no compensation to TRFC, with them then having to look for a new manager, again. It’s one thing using an on-loan manager in the Cowdenbeath scenario – they needed a manager but had no money to spend and weren’t looking for miracles, just a wee bit progress, and even that didn’t work.
Anyway, I don’t think any regular board would authorise the kind of money that TRFC need (but surely can’t) to spend with a manager/coach who is not even theirs, regardless of who it is that will have the final word on whether or not it is spent.
In a twist to SG’s position at Liverpool:
Liverpool assistant manager Zeljko Buvac will not be involved with the first team until the end of the season for personal reasons.
There were reports Buvac left Liverpool after a falling out with manager Jurgen Klopp.
However, the Anfield club maintain Buvac remains a employee of the club.
Liverpool consider the matter to be private and say his position at the club will not be affected by his absence.
Promotion at Anfield in the offing for SG perhaps?
An on loan youth coach to take over the big team which is been run by a youth team coach, really, is this a wind up, are they expecting to move season books on this, remeber the tartan thread and buckets of blue steam .
JINGO JIMSIE APRIL 30 16.46
I have checked the website myself and like many media outlets the headline is slightly different to what was actually said in the article.
Shugs post of 13.49 opened with the following “Anyone else hear the stevie g to ***** is a loan deal” How do you define a loan deal?. To me in footballing terms a loan deal allows a employee of one club to be “loaned” to another club for a predetermined period of time.
Andy Dunn’s opinion was simply that if SG achieved a level of success he would then be considered a prime candidate for the top job.
STEVIEBC APRIL 30 16.41
Only one word that matters here and that is “IF”.
Just noticed that both AJ and BB1916 are going with the “on loan” narrative as if it has any legitimacy.
Anyone else hear that the stevie g to sevco is a loan deal I’m not sure loaning a manager should be allowed but I suppose when you have no dosh.
(Slimjim) above is what I posted regarding Stevie g I see nothing there that in any way insinuate what you said.Try not to read more into it than is there.
easyJamboApril 30, 2018 at 16:14
‘…Note to JC – I don’t know if the TRFC v Green is going ahead tomorrow. It’s not listed on the rolls, but there have been 3 unopposed motions in the last week.’
_________
Yes, thanks, Ej. I noticed that petition for interdict while I was trying to find which judge would be hearing the CG business.
I’ll toddle in tomorrow anyway and see if I can be told anything.
BIGBOAB1916APRIL 30, 2018 at 17:20
0
0 Rate This
An on loan youth coach to take over the big team which is been run by a youth team coach, really, is this a wind up,?
——————-
With expected loan players or free transfer dealings. Put your favorite loan players name on the back of the new hummel shirt(honest we knocked back other brands) and please pay for your overpriced ST for this privilege.
must be a wind up.
I seem to recall that when McCall took charge for the play-offs, he was on loan from his SFA position. On the face of it, it does appear a viable option, and TBH, perhaps a more sensible option, reducing the compo, should a termed contract not pan out as was hoped.
On the downside, not so clever if he turns out more than able, and Liverpool terminate the loan to cover, for e.g. the Zeljko Buvac situation.
Whatever the case, from public exposure of the proposal, to getting the deal over the line seems to be taking an inordinate period of time.
Whether the outcome be aye, or nay, it is bad business all round.
A ye will result in little more than euphoria at a name, and increased ST sales until he is tested, and a refusal will amount to a very public, UK wide slap-down, from an untried manager,
I note that Klaxon has speculated in excusing the media silence, Murty may have suffered some sort of break-down?…That kind of speculation is best kept to himself.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-rank-aggregate-score-table-12453368
SHUG APRIL 30 17.39
I simply pointed out the opening line in your post.
I could understand if you were asking a question and didn’t add a question mark in error but nevertheless my original opinion is valid imo.
No-one to my knowledge has shown any proof that the proposed move of SG to Rangers is simply a loan deal. If they can could they please provide a link.
I have already mentioned how a couple of posters on here are referring to the “on-loan” manager as if it is based on a fact. It isn’t.
Off to watch the U17s game.See if we can get some pride back in the club.
STV Online if anyone wants to watch the Glasgow Cup. It’s STV’s own stream, you only have to register with them.
https://player.stv.tv/live/stv2?cid=ext_tw_sm_vl_stv2&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=stv2&utm_content=ranvscel&_branch_match_id=519443349390209177
SLIMJIMAPRIL 30, 2018 at 18:17
No-one to my knowledge has shown any proof that the proposed move of SG to Rangers is simply a loan deal. If they can could they please provide a link.
————–
You may have missed the part….must be a wind up.
SJ, you are involving yourself in a circular argument for its own sake here. It was merely pointed out that the possibility of it being a loan was mentioned. No-one has set that in stone or is taking it as fact. And it doesn’t alter anything substantively, so why does it matter anyway?
The Gerrard thing is interesting though, and like you, I believe that for Rangers at any rate – and with the correct backing -an appointment has rather more pros than cons.
What I do find strange is that Rangers would consider anything that isn’t a much surer thing in their current position.
Ninja on Twitter thinks that SG would get more patience than a non-marquee manager. Perhaps he is correct, but I do know from personal experience the effort that was put int managing Celtic fans’ expectations of Martin O’Neill when he arrived in Glasgow – so I think the club are more in control of that than Gerrard is.
I’m also not buying into the notion that sucess at Ibrox will qualify Gerrard for the top job at Anfield – not any more that the idea that Brendan Rodgers’ success at Celtic qualifies him for the Arsenal job.
The perception down south, held by even those who should know better, is that Scotland is a footballing banana republic, full of inferior players and pretend football clubs. That view is not wholly correct, and smacks of more than a little arrogance, but it is still a view any manager of a Scottish club is stuck with.
Look at the problems Neil Lennon had (with an arguably superior European record than BR) getting a job in England before he had to settle for Bolton. His subsequent failure in that role, along with those of Robbie Neilson, Alex Rae and Derek McInnes won’t have holed those perceptions below the waterline.
What is possible is that failure in Scotland could ruin a managerial career before it gets properly started – particularly if that failure is at either Celtic Park or Ibrox, where people south of the border think all the money is.
That said, I think a Gerrard appointment would be interesting – and it is great box office.
I am reluctant to see it happen though, and that reluctance has more to do with seeing one of my favourite players go over to the blue side (and my hope that his managerial career doesn’t flounder because of it), than (Celtic hat mode) any greater fear of being overtaken.
The (considerable) cost of the acquisition of Gerrard (loan or otherwise) for Rangers would probably be offset by extra sponsorship and merchandising on the back of such a deal, but Gerrard (or at least his agents) is not daft, and he would look to get a chunk of any of that extra cash.
Still leaves some serious fund raising for player acquisition and retention, not to mention paying down debt. That is what will be required to facilitate a challenge, no matter who becomes the new manager at Ibrox.
BIG PINK
APRIL 30, 2018 at 18:35
The Gerrard thing is interesting though, and like you, I believe that for Rangers at any rate – and with the correct backing -an appointment has rather more pros than cons.
===============================
That’s the thing though, as I asked the other day.
What would constitute the correct backing and where is it coming from. Rangers are in a position where they can only spend money if someone is willing to provide it. So shares issues or loans, or indeed selling of assets.
£20m in debt, plus the Close secured loans which are allegedly going to be repaid over the summer. It is going to be really difficult for anyone to provide the correct backing. A sense of entitlement won’t do it.
Over the weekend I did read a couple of articles about Klopp’s right hand man of 17 years, who seems to have been ‘absented’ from Anfield, and just days before their Champions’ League semi.
Must admit, I hadn’t heard of the chap, and hadn’t considered it in the context of the Gerrard speculation going to Ibrox.
Is it a coincidence that shortly after Gerrard is supposedly looking to leave Anfield, Klopp’s assistant seems to have gone ?
Was Klopp looking to involve Gerrard in a first team capacity – which could have stepped on his assistant’s toes ?
Just speculation on my part of course, but something rather serious, [which, admittedly, might not have anything at all to do with Gerrard], has happened between Klopp and his assistant…and just when they should be enjoying the rewards of their lengthy partnership.
Very good tweet from Jim Spence today, which offers yet another reason why he is no longer a permanent employee of the BBC.
BIG PINK APRIL 30 18.35
Last word on SG, Until he becomes the manager or not as the case may be.
A couple of posters on the site have already referred to it as a “loan deal” as if it IS set in stone.
I agree with you in regard to how our game is viewed in other parts of the UK. Brendan Rodgers could win league title after league title at Celtic without any great clamor for him to be appointed to any of the top clubs. He will be judged by how his team performs in Europe where Celtic are simply there to make up the numbers if we’re being honest.
slimjimApril 30, 2018 at 17:32
STEVIEBC APRIL 30 16.41Only one word that matters here and that is “IF”. Just noticed that both AJ and BB1916 are going with the “on loan” narrative as if it has any legitimacy.
_____________________
Oops, sorry for that oversight.
You see, I assumed everyone would have the nous to realise that there was a silent ‘if’ there, as we are all aware that the ‘on-loan’ story is no more than mere speculation at the moment. Yet, again, of course, you do not challenge the point of the post, preferring to make a petty point instead.
Still, my post, even without the ‘if’, undoubtedly has more legitimacy than any post claiming TRFC to be the same club as Rangers FC, for that is truly ‘iffy’!
SLIMJIMAPRIL 30, 2018 at 19:43
============================
Rodgers came closer to winning the league for Liverpool than any of the Managers they have had since Dalglish last won it in 1990. Ironically if Gerrard had not slipped in a game which cost Liverpool vital points he probably would have. Had he done so though it is unlikely he would ever have ended up at Celtic. He still has managerial stock in England in my view, but sees himself as having unfinished business at Celtic. He is a young man who said only this morning on Talksport he intends to manage for another 20 years.
SLIMJIM
APRIL 30, 2018 at 19:43
=============================
From a Celtic supporters perspective I would rather we were in the CL seeing massive clubs coming to Celtic Park, even if we are only there to “make up the numbers”.
The tens of millions it brings into the club is also nice.
As is the occasional unexpected result, like beating Barca at home. What a night that was.
AJ 19.53 & UTH 19.54.
Never assume anything.
I have a lot of respect for what BR has achieved at ALL the clubs he has managed. He improves players who have underperformed.Tom Rogic for example looked like a player who in the 2016 SCSF was looking for an excuse to get off the park on a couple of occasions, now he looks like he is going to score in every Old Firm game.
slimjim April 30, 2018 at 19:43
He will be judged by how his team performs in Europe where Celtic are simply there to make up the numbers if we’re being honest.
==============================
The problem, for everyone else, with Celtic making up the numbers in Europe is that the numbers are around 30 million.
Every season they “make up the numbers” distances them further from domestic competition.
I think you have been a bit unfair on Rodgers though. He has taken the club forward from where they were under Delia, first taking them back into the CL group stages, then a further step to still being in Europe after xmas. The bigger challenge would be to make the k.o. stages of the CL, but that may prove beyond the club’s resources and the capability of the current squad.
Hummeliation – is it a word ?
HOMUNCULUS APRIL 30 20.02
Agree with you. Seeing some of the best teams & players coming to Celtic Park is an education in itself.
The financial rewards are always welcome to clubs like Celtic. Don’t mean that in a disparaging way, but with no realistic chance of progressing (at present) beyond the last 16 the cash generated allows for a continual upgrade of the playing squad.
Off to watch my club win a trophy now. More skill, application, desire allied to a winning mentality has been shown tonight than in recent 1st team games. Some decent talent on show with the scorer of the first 2 goals being a fan of the opposition.
SLIMJIMAPRIL 30, 2018 at 20:23
Good game to watch and you’ve got to hope the young lads can continue to develop,as that, to me, is your way forward . Or maybe they like playing at Firhill and are auditioning for a part ?
slimjimApril 30, 2018 at 20:08
AJ 19.53 & UTH 19.54.Never assume anything.I have a lot of respect for what BR has achieved at ALL the clubs he has managed. He improves players who have underperformed.Tom Rogic for example looked like a player who in the 2016 SCSF was looking for an excuse to get off the park on a couple of occasions, now he looks like he is going to score in every Old Firm game.
______________________
Is that an order or advice?
It’s strange thing for you to say, though, as you seem happy to assume that the people who state, without providing any justification or basis, whatsoever, that TRFC is the same club as Rangers, are speaking from positions of knowledge and with the authority to define what a club is, rather than just saying what they consider to be expected of them, or, worse still, in their own best interest (from fear of what hell might be brought down upon them).
Still, the use of such glib clichés does help avoid the points raised in the posts you refer to while filling the blog with meaningless posts.
Dear All,
I know that I don’t appear to often, but I do keep an eye on things most days. However, I am a bit puzzled about a recent phenomenon. Despite obvious ‘troll’ indications, a lot of folk do engage with S/J, and have done for quite a while.
It seems to me quite apparent that we have a shapechanger amongst us, but he/she is still allowed to insult our intelligence with squirrels, non sequiturs and such flummery. Not only that, he/she gets responses!
I have no problem whatsoever with genuine ‘blue’ side fans, such as DBD (is this dark enough yet by the way?), but I suspect that S/J has ‘graced’ these pages before under another pseudonym.
Beyond that, congrats. to Mr. Ross as manager of the year. I had hoped that our man Clarke might just squeeze through, but I am very pleased to see a manager from the Championship getting the accolades. Mind you, I am pretty sure that Killie will get a number of points from their games against the Buddies next season!
PADDY MALARKEY APRIL 30 20.49
Some decent players on display this evening in a blue shirt. Taking the next step has always been the difficult part for many young Scottish players though. Tonight was encouraging but some distance still to go for the young bears.
AJ 21.01
What do you think?
I said in one of my earlier posts that i would not be discussing the OC/NC debate.
Sorry you find my posts meaningless. I’m sure i am not alone though.
HAYWIRE 21.35
I know there is no way to convince you but i have never posted under any other username in the past. Whether people want to respond or not is entirely up to them. I have no problem with anyone who chooses not to.
tonyApril 30, 2018 at 10:43
‘..i recall a rugby club not being to happy about that headline’
______________
tony, it’s now 22.13 , and call me Tam Cowan, but I’ve only just got the point of your post: there is a rugby club called West of Scotland! (am I right, or a meringue?)
I am, regrettably, unable to name more than one or two rugby teams ,Edinburgh something and Glasgow Warriors, and that’s only because I heard they were competing for an 1872 cup or whatever. The most ridiculous thoughts flashed through my mind!
JOHN CLARK
https://www.westofscotlandfc.co.uk/
pretty sure it was this one john
Given the parlous state of finances at Ibrox and Mr King’s propensity for telling porkies, I’m fully expecting Honey G to turn up instead of Stevie G.
HaywireApril 30, 2018 at 21:35
‘..Despite obvious ‘troll’ indications, a lot of folk do engage with S/J, and have done for quite a while.’
____________________
I wouldn’t worry about it, Haywire.
The important thing is to recognise that SlimJim and any other ‘denier’ ( no, Jean7, not 30!) is labouring hard to get us all to ‘move on’, to ‘normalise’ matters, to bring TRFC Ltd into the general talk about football as if it were the now liquidated Rangers of 1872 vintage.
Most posters on the blog, and (I would imagine) most casual readers of the blog, know that TRFC Ltd is pretendy RFC(IL).
And as long as any post by an obvious ‘denier’ is more or less immediately challenged, new, casual readers will get the truth.
Clearly the PR folk working for RIFC plc will see and feel this blog as a thorn in their side, and will be gnashing their teeth that this blog has on its side the ultimate all-powerful weapon- Truth.
And now, of course, the hyenas in the SMSM have, it seems, begun to be a little more bold!
They scent that TRFC Ltd/RIFC plc are actually in deep doo-doo: well and truly landed there by DK. They have begun to start talking openly about the Finances of RIFC plc. About where the money so desperately needed is to come from.
(I’m sure I could hear the odd sob in oor Kenny’s voice earlier this evening as Michael Stewart repeatedly asked the question)
And when the TOP gets finished with King and/or the other concert party members, and kills off any expectation that people will pour in enough shekels to save the pretendy Rangers from the fate of the real Rangers of 1872……… will we have the newly appointed CEO of the SFA arrange another 5-way Agreement?
And that’s a very important question: is the SFA likely to be a repeat offender?
slimjimApril 30, 2018 at 19:43
BIG PINK APRIL 30 18.35 “Last word on SG, Until he becomes the manager or not as the case may be. A couple of posters on the site have already referred to it as a “loan deal” as if it IS set in stone.”
Should have replied earlier if you look at the picture above it cleary makes refrence to a loan, if you are putting it out then its obvious it will be discussed, but if you are adamant its something that its not then maybe fans for Sevco should take it up with SKY who are happy to share the moonbeams.
But it is what it is and it is on the web in its stated (alleged) fact according to the writer or is this another piece of crap like the RRM conning the tribute act.
Scotsman reporting that Gerrards pal Danny Murphy saying his mate will be looking for assurances ‘re a war chest etc for the rebuilding job.
Meetings have been held and more to be had this week. If that’s the spin from the SG camp then a good bit away from a done deal.
Can see this all unravelling by the end of the week with SG suffering the accusation of not being concomitant and the likes.
Jim Duffy will be bookies favourite by next week.
[moderated content]
Moving onto the omnishambles at Ibrox and Sunday was just the latest in a long line of disgraceful performances.
The buck stops at King who should be nowhere near the club. He walks from one disaster to another whilst yet again, the biggest victims are the support who throw their hard earned cash at the Club with little or no return. Court after court after court after court. Its draining.
I sense that one of our lenders will give up in the coming months and be the first to pull the trigger in calling in their loan. That will be a real test on others mettle thereafter.
PS – From a previous question, there isnt a cat in h3lls chance of £20m being invested in players next season. Its utter cloud cuckoo land.
PPS – There are still people clinging to a terrible headline re loan deal to the point of asking about what happens if the loan deal goes wrong?
PPPS – Whilst i think Gerrard would be great for Scottish Football and create a lot of media coverage etc, certainly wouldnt be my choice. Its a massive gamble. (Though i have to say i dont know who i would take as boss…..or who would want it just now thats good enough ) 🙁
bigboab1916April 30, 2018 at 23:14
‘…it cleary makes refrence to a loan,..’
________________
It does indeed, bigboab, no question.
The concept of managers being loaned is new to me, I have to say.
I fiddled about on the FIFA website trying, unsuccessfully, to find whether there are rules about loaning coaches as there are about loaning players.
Is it permissible for a club in one national association to lend a coach (at any level)to a club in another national association?
I’ve little doubt that TRFC ltd would try that up-front money-saving expedient if it were allowed!
Is it allowed, though?
I’m not particularly well-informed, but I’ve never heard of it before.
Can anyone shed light, please?
BIGBOAB 1916 APRIL 30 23.14.
Not going to labor the point but the headline is qualified within the article.
“Almost like a loan” were the words Andy Dunn used in the programme.
What a squirrel this may turn out to be… Gerrard has not signed yet – imagine the loss of face if he doesn’t after all this negotiation in the public eye.
Liverpool were famous for their “boot room” succession planning. The only scenario I can can see where this doesn’t end badly (SG coming up and bombing/bailing because promised funds not available) is SG staying at Liverpiol for a more senior role.
if (just popping that in for coverage haha).
Iain Mulholland quits as director of Club 1872 Rangers fan group.
https://www.lastditchtackle.com/iain-mulholland-quits-as-director-of-club-1872-rangers-fan-group/
————————
Just how many have quit this organisation since it’s birth?
JOCKYBHOYMAY 1, 2018 at 06:48
What a squirrel this may turn out to be… Gerrard has not signed yet – imagine the loss of face if he doesn’t after all this negotiation in the public eye.
—————-
It will not be the first time this has happened to the new ibrox club
The general theme from pundits last night on radio shows was ‘Rangers are going to have to get money…I don’t know from where, but they are just going to have to get it’. Perhaps it’s time for whoever selects and pays these pundits to give a so called insight to look for people who can take the debate above Primary School playground level.
Re SG/DCK
The Courts have the TOP down to-day going for an interdict re DCK – would assume following granting of same the TOP commences proceedings incl. the cold shoulder – presume SG advisors are keeping him up to date on the type of guy they are “dealing” with .
I honestly don’t know if Steven Gerrard will become the manager of the club that Charlie started in 2012.
If he comes he will undoubtedly add colour and bring awareness from the English media.
He will also sell season books and ratchet up the pressure for immediate success and “rightful place” returns.
But the pressure will be there from day 1.
One downside of recruiting a “Boys Own” hero is he comes with a lot of residual respect and people who like and trust him and some of his fans work in the media in influential positions.
I’d guess the English media are less aware and respectful of the establishment leanings that we know about too and if (when) the wheels start to come off they will take his side and some real journalistic insight might finally appear. (Insight that has been lacking up to today from all the various regimes milking the blue pound who have had an easy ride from our msm).
If the blue club ever treat their Steven the same way the Ibrox Board have treated Warburton and Weir (An Ibrox legend himself) and also Graeme Murty (who has done well in impossible circumstances) then they will find it is not about their wee PR guy in Scotland keeping a dignified silence to maintain harmony.
As a further word of caution when I look at some of my own personal “Boys Own” heroes who chose to manage it becomes apparent that success on the pitch and leadership qualities are no guarantee of success.
In fact if you look at four of the most successful managers of my time Stein, Ferguson, Mourinho and Shankly – they were not of the Gerrard calibre on the pitch.
And I will never forget the Super Caley Go Ballistic night and outfall which rightly and fatally holed the Celtic John Barnes/ Dalglish project.
Seems Mr Murty has left the building.
Jim White✔@JimWhite
An announcement is expected shortly but it’s my understanding Graeme Murty will not be in charge of @RangersFC this weekend.
This is interesting at least it should be.
https://www.lastditchtackle.com/iain-mulholland-quits-as-director-of-club-1872-rangers-fan-group/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43961178
Graeme Murty is a decent man and i wish him well.
World record for the number of managers in a single season?
I know football is a harsh environment but Murty must surely be relieved to be leaving the madhouse.
Treated very shabbily by an incompetent board.
If his decision to sub Halliday before half time was criticised then surely sacking someone with three games to go falls into the same category? Either that or Murty was correct in that decision trying to make something happen to save the season.
As I said the other day to an outsider the attraction of Ibrox is obvious but dig deeper and you have to wonder why anyone would want to take up the post, especially someone like Gerrard who is perhaps less desperate for a gig than some other established or upcoming managers.
SLIMJIM
MAY 1, 2018 at 09:51
Graeme Murty is a decent man and i wish him well.
======================================
I’ve never met the man so he may well be.
The question is though, who is going to see out the rest of the season. There are important games against Kilmarnock, Aberdeen and Hibs which could see Rangers (currently 3rd) ending up anywhere from 2nd to 4th.
There has to be a plan in place with regards who is leading the team for those games.
HOMUNCULUSMAY 1, 2018 at 10:33
Unless Gerrard signs on the line by Friday it will be Jimmy Nicholl
“RANGERS appointed Jimmy Nicholl as the club’s new assistant manager in January 2018 to work alongside Graeme Murty.”
slimjim
May 1, 2018 at 05:54
BIGBOAB 1916 APRIL 30 23.14. Not going to labor the point but the headline is qualified within the article. “Almost like a loan” were the words Andy Dunn used in the programme.
So what you are stating is SKY like to mislead with lines to catch a fish, how about that, just like the squirrels that Sevconians have been buying into all these years. Nevertheless I dare say SKY will not be too pleased regards the failure to give an interview after the game, dare say they will just say Murty as he is no longer there made the decision or would that be a squirrel.
HOMUNCULUS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsXKS8Nyu8Q
plan you say
WOTTPI
MAY 1, 2018 at 10:42
===============================
The Raith Rovers man from Canada.
Quite a change in direction. He does have quite a bit of management experience though. Maybe if he gets second place he will have a chance of the full time gig.
BIGBOAB 1916 MAY 1 10.43
I take it that Rangers will be fined for not giving an interview post match.
How much?
just seen on twitter
Pie and Bovril @pieandbov39s
Jimmy Nicholl and Jonatan Johansson will take charge of the Rangers team for the three remaining matches of the season.
I have great sympathy for Graeme Murty. Promoted beyond his current abilities & obviously struggling, he’s been shabbily treated in both his temporary tenures. I wrote at the time that he should have resigned after the Scottish Cup defeat & this morning’s (and Sunday’s) events rather show that he should have done so.
I wonder if he’s been Warburtoned (or Amber Rudded!) this morning as a deflection tactic for other bad news that may be in the pipeline today?