UEFA Club Licensing. – To Comply or not to Comply ?
On 16 April 2018 The UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) adjudicatory chamber took decisions in the cases of four clubs that had been referred to it by the CFCB chief investigator, concerning the non-fulfilment of the club licensing criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.
Such criteria must be complied with by the clubs in order to be granted the licence required to enter the UEFA club competitions.
The cases of two clubs::
Olympique des Alpes SA (Sion Switzerland )
and
FC Irtysh (Kazakhstan)
are of particular interest to those following the events under which the SFA awarded a UEFA License to Rangers FC in 2011 currently under investigation by the SFA Compliance Officer because
- The case documentation tell us how UEFA wish national associations to apply UEFA FFP rules
- The cases tell us what might have happened to Rangers FC in 2012 had they not gone into liquidation and as a consequence avoided the same type of sanctions that UEFA applied to Sion and Irtysh.
FC Sion (Olympique des Alpes SA)
Here we are told how the Swiss FL and then the UEFA CFCB acted in respect of FC Sion in 2017 where a misleading statement was made in the Sion UEFA licensing application.
Full details can be read at
but this is a summary.
In April 2017 the Swiss FL (SFL) granted a licence to Sion FC but indicated that a Disciplinary case was pending.
In July 2017 the CFCB, as part of their licence auditing programme, carried out a compliance audit on 3 clubs to determine if licences had been properly awarded. Sion was one of those clubs.
The subsequent audit by Deloitte LLP discovered Sion had an overdue payable on a player, amounting to €950,000, owed to another football club (FC Sochaux ) at 31st March 2017 as a result of a transfer undertaken by Sion before 31st December 2016, although the €950,000 was paid in early June 2017.
Deloitte produced a draft report of their findings that was passed to SFL and Sion for comment on factual accuracy and comment on the findings. Sion responded quickly enabling Deloitte to present a final report to the CFCB Investigation Unit. In response to the Deloitte final report Sion stated:
“il apparaît aujourd’hui qu’il existait bel et bien un engagement impayé découlant d’une activité de transfert. Ce point est admis” translated as
“it now appears that there was indeed an outstanding commitment arising from transfer activity. This is admitted”
What emerged as the investigation proceeded was that the Swiss FL Licensing Committee, after granting the license in April and as a result of a Sochaux complaint of non-payment to FIFA, had reason to refer Sion’s application to their Disciplinary Commission in May 2017 with regard to the submission of potentially misleading information by FC Sion to the SFL on 7th April 2017 as part of its licensing documentation.
Sion had declared
“Written confirmation: no overdue payables arising from transfer activities”, signed by the Club’s president, stating that as at 31 March 2017 there were no overdue payables towards other football clubs. In particular, the Club indicated that the case between FC Sion and FC Sochaux regarding the transfer of the player Ishmael Yartey was still under dispute.
The SFL Disciplinary Commission came to the conclusion that FC Sion had no intention to mislead the SFL, but indeed submitted some incorrect licensing documentation; the SFL Disciplinary Commission further confirmed that the total amount of €950,000 had been paid by the Club to FC Sochaux on 7 June 2017. Because of the inaccurate information submitted, the SFL Disciplinary Commission decided to impose a fine of CHF 8,000 on the Club.
Whilst this satisfied the SFL Disciplinary process the CFCB deemed it not enough to justify the granting of the licence as UEFA intended their FFP rules to be applied.
Sion provided the CFCB with a number of reasons on the basis of which no sanction should be imposed. In particular, the Club admitted that there was an overdue payable as at 31 March 2017, but stated that the mistake in the document dated 7 April 2017 was the result of a misinterpretation by the club’s responsible person for dealing with the licence (the “Club’s licence manager”), who is not a lawyer. The Club affirmed that it never had the intention to conceal the information and had provisioned the amount due for payment and that, in any case, it has already been sanctioned by the SFL for providing the wrong information.
The CFCB Investigation Unit accepted that the Sion application, although inaccurate, was a one off misrepresentation and not a forgery, (as in intended to deceive ) but that nevertheless an overdue payable did exist at 31st March and a licence should not have been granted.
Based on their findings, the CFCB Chief Investigator decided to refer the case to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber and suggested a disciplinary measure to be imposed on FC Sion by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber, such measure consisting of a fine of €235,000, corresponding to the UEFA Revenues the Club gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
The CFCB Investigatory Chamber submitted that it was appropriate to impose a fine corresponding to all the UEFA revenues the Club gained by participating in the competition considering the fact that FC Sion should not have been admitted to the competition for failing to meet one of its admission criteria.
The Adjudicatory Chambers took all the circumstances (see paras 91 to 120 at http://tiny.cc/i8sxsy ) into consideration and reached the following key decisions.
- FC Sion failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 49(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the SFL not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Sion breached Articles 13(1) and 43(1)(i) of the CL&FFP Regulations. (Documents complete and correct)
- To exclude FC Sion from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next two (2) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19 and 2019/20).
- To impose a fine of two hundred and thirty five thousand Euros (€235,000) on FC Sion.
- FC Sion is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
It is now public knowledge that an actual liability of tax due before 31stDecember 2010 towards HMRC, was admitted by Rangers FC before 31st March 2011.
This liability was described as “potential” in Rangers Interim accounts audited by Grant Thornton.
“Note 1: The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.”
The English Oxford Dictionary definition of potential is:
Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.
Which was not true as the liability had already been “developed” so could not be potential.
This was repeated by Chairman Alistair Johnson in his covering Interim Accounts statement
“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. “ where he also added
“Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.”
This could be taken as disputing the liability but In fact the resolution to the assessments raised would have been payment of the actual liability, something that never happened.
In the Sion case it was accepted the misleading statement was a one off misrepresentation, but at the monitoring stages at June 2011 in Ranger’s case the status of the liability continued to be misrepresented and in September the continuing discussions reason was repeated, along with a claim of an instalment paid whose veracity is highly questionable.
The Swiss FL Licensing Committee did at least refer the case to their Disciplinary Committee when they realised a misleading statement might have been made. The SFA however in August 2011, when Sherriff Officers called at Ibrox for payment of the overdue tax , did no such thing and pulled up the drawbridge for six years, one that the Compliance Officer is now finally charged with lowering.
The case of FC Irtysh of Kazakhstan is set out in full at http://tiny.cc/y9sxsy and is a bit more straightforward but is nevertheless useful to compare with events in 2011 in Scotland.
Unlike Rangers FC , FC Irtysh properly disclosed that they had an overdue payable to the Kazakhstan tax authorities at the monitoring point at 30th June 2017. This caused the CFCB Investigatory Unit to seek further information with regard to the position at 31st March
It transpired that Irtysh had declared an overdue payable at 31st March but cited their financial position (awaiting sponsor money) as a reason for non payment to the Kazakhstan FA who accepted it and granted the licence. The outstanding tax was paid in September 2107.
The outcome of the CFCB Investigation was a case put to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber who agreed with the CFCB Investigation Unit that a licence should not have been granted and recommended that Irtysh be fined the equivalent of the UEFA prize money, (that had been withheld in any case whilst CFCB investigated.)
The CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber however decided that a fine was not sufficient in sporting deterrent terms and ruled that:
- FC Irtysh failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 50bis(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the FFK not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- To withhold four hundred and forty thousand Euros (€440,000) corresponding to the UEFA revenues FC Irtysh gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
- To exclude FC Irtysh from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next three (3) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons). This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of (3) three years. This exclusion must be enforced in case the Club participates again in a UEFA club competition having not fulfilled the licence criteria required to obtain the UEFA licence in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Irtysh is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings. “
The deferral was because unlike Rangers FC, FC Irtysh had properly disclosed to the licensor the correct & accurate financial information required, so the exclusion was deferred for a probationary period of (3) years.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
From the foregoing it could be deduced that had Rangers FC qualified for the Champions League (or European League) and not gone bust as a result and so not entered liquidation BUT it became public knowledge by 2012 that a licence had been wrongly and possibly fraudulently granted then
- Rangers would have been fined the equivalent of their earnings from their participation in the UEFA competitions in 2011
- At least a two year ban from UEFA Competitions would have been imposed, but more likely three in view of repeated incorrect statements.
- The consequences of both would have been as damaging for Rangers survival as the real life consequences of losing to Malmo and Maribor in the qualifying rounds of the Champions and European Leagues.
Karma eh!
Interestingly in the UEFA COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITY REPORT 2015 – 2017 , the CFCB investigatory chamber recommended that both the Kazakhstan FA and Swiss FA as licensors
“pay particular attention to the adequate disclosure of the outstanding amounts payable towards other football clubs, in respect of employees and towards social/tax authorities, which must be disclosed separately;
Would the same recommendation apply to the Scottish FA with regard to their performance in 2011 and will the SFA responses thereafter to shareholders in a member club be examined for compliance with best governance practice by the SFA Compliance Officer investigating the processing of the UEFA Licence in 2011?
This would be a welcome step in fully restoring trust in the SFA.
CORRUPT OFFICIALJULY 28, 2018 at 17:53
An “unlabelled” kit, is one free from a gamblers logo, which on the surface is rather obvious to what it refers considering Croatian rules.
_________________________________
So wearing the orange kit with no sponsor on it would have been “unlabelled” also. In fact wearing any would have been “unlabelled”
I just dont get it to be honest.
Do you think they were able to magic a new kit with different colour badge, names, numbers, different shorts and unseen socks out of thin air at short notice ?
THELAWMAN2
JULY 28, 2018 at 17:04
I got it directly from the club and someone who would know yeah.
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Now how did I know you were going to say that.
Let me guess, you got it verbally and you are not willing to share who you got it from, or why they would have told you but not the Rangers support.
THELAWMAN2
JULY 28, 2018 at 17:55
But the last few days have been dominated by a football strip and what appears to be a hunger to have Rangers punished for perhaps breaking a rule on it.
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I have not said I want Rangers punished.
I just think the whole thing is amateurish and embarrassing.
I haven’t a clue how the League cup works now, but,
Thistle finish second in Group E, but will join Championship rivals Ayr in the last 16 should Hearts fail to beat Inverness Caledonian Thistle on Sunday.
Keep it clean and respectful Paddy and the Jambos. No swearing.
Lawman said “Any suggestion that it was a last minute discovery and that we were able to get them all marked up etc in time for kick off is a non starter. Any letters or emails to UEFA or Osijek will be a futile attempt though im sure they have been inundated with mail on the subject.”
Anyone think LM’s job for today is to ensure no one highlights this to UEFA? Lol.
Why would football teams have to register 4 strips with UEFA ,surely 3 kits would be more than sufficient.I am sure the MSM will be beavering away to get to the bottom of this latest puzzle
THELAWMAN2JULY 28, 2018 at 17:58
CORRUPT OFFICIALJULY 28, 2018 at 17:53 An “unlabelled” kit, is one free from a gamblers logo, which on the surface is rather obvious to what it refers considering Croatian rules. _________________________________
So wearing the orange kit with no sponsor on it would have been “unlabelled” also. In fact wearing any would have been “unlabelled”
I just dont get it to be honest.
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“Unlabelled” kit of any colour would be fine to comply with Croatian rules. “Registered” kit may not be fine, subject to the retail deal court decision.. Ergo a logical and sensible step for UEFA to adopt would be to circumvent the issue until a decision is reached.
I am not advocating punishing Sevco for wearing unauthorised kit, as I explained I assume there to have been an agreement reached negating punishment. My curiosity surrounds the sudden emergence of a mystery 4th kit.
It doesn’t ring true…. In appearance, it has more a stop-gap measure about it. An emergency procedure if you will. Adopted because of a problem with the other 3 kits.
In a later post you asked about the pettiness attached to unauthorised kit. It may have escaped your attention that Celtic were fined for wearing unauthorised bibs in a warm-up.
That is why I assume Sevco to have worn the training top with prior authority.
Can I ask you something.
Does it make any sense to you, to “launch” a 4th jersey, unannounced, with no prior hype, or even hinting a sneaky suspicion at, on what can only be termed as a huge occasion for Sevco?.
The Celtic fine was ridiculous also. It’s stupid.
And I agree. The lack of any fine will prove authority.in this case.
Imagine a football fan from the late 1800s being zoomed forward in time to today. All this talk about strips would be strange. ‘An away’ tap! Whit is that? 3rd & 4th strips? Hivnae a clue what your talking about! Shirt sponsors? Who are UEFA?
I’m going home!
LM2, there’s no mention of contingencies should kit have to be changed post application. I’ve quoted directly from the relevant articles. There are reasonable questions arising from redshirtgate. It’s been completely ignored by the SMSM.
Ex Ludo, having not read UEFA’s rules, if they are anything like The SFA’s there will be plenty of wriggle room. Lost count of the times I read things like ‘or whatever we think’ at the end of a clause.
Is that what we want in the game ?
Nope. Just a set of rules that everyone sees fit to abide by plus a suitably flexible ‘appeals procedure’ if said rules appear to be overly burdensome on any particular sector, big vs small, rich vs poor etc.
but I also want those rules applied without favour, particularly on clubs who feel they can jump to the safety of delays in the latter point to decide if its worth bothering with the former.
I’m not convinced redshirtgate is worth any serious discussion, there are many times where a team has had to borrow strip last minute (therefore playing in a non-registered strip) usually for clashes that the ref doesn’t like or tv issues. A quick google turns up a 1978 World Cup game where France had to borrow a strip to play Hungary as the colour tv couldn’t handle the official strip!
Nah, the whole episode is hilarious and if it were any other team would be the source of extreme p*sstake in the media but staunchness, dignity etc. Consign to the “Let’s all laugh at….” blogs. Keep laughing though, they are that cliche, the gift that keeps on giving.
ERNIEJULY 28, 2018 at 19:32
I agree, Eddie. I will be obstreperous though, and question whether The Rangers were advised not to wear their Orange Order strip due to it being a direct insult to the majority of Croatians, who are of course Roman Catholic.
THELAWMAN2JULY 28, 2018 at 17:04
HOMUNCULUSJULY 28, 2018 at 16:48What do you have that can support your claim.You know it to be true, so must have gotten the information from somewhere, it certainly isn’t common knowledge. Did you read it somewhere, were you told by someone who would know, do you have access to confidential information. _________________________________________________________________
I got it directly from the club and someone who would know yeah.
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See, I was right, I said someone would be along with proof that TRFC have four different kits registered with UEFA. Directly from someone at the club, it would seem, a club built on a lie.
So tell, us, Lawman2, why are you the only person privy to this information, while that haven of truth, Level5, don’t appear to have your high level contacts?
Don’t you think it would be a good idea if the club let everyone know that they have four kits registered with UEFA, rather than just you?
You said in another post.
‘No kits are advertised for sale.’
As ever, you don’t pay attention to what was said, as, I am sure, that would make your response so much harder to frame. I’m sure everyone else got my meaning when I said:
‘Further more, I do find it strange that the only kit no one has seen or heard of before is the only one free of the sponsor’s logo, and extremely surprising that the only kit not advertised for sale, as an official match kit, (sometime in the future in an as yet unknown store) should be chosen for a high(ish) profile match.’
And again, of course, you choose to nit pick rather than to tackle the point of what was said, that the only kit without the logo was the one no one had seen or heard of, not even TRFC supporters. The one that was identical to the training kit.
As to the idea that proof of a fourth registered kit will come should UEFA not fine your club. Well, I am of the opinion that UEFA would not fine a club for a first offence of this nature, it would be seen, at worst, as poor organisation/planning and a genuine mistake. I also would not be surprised, though, if the club contacted UEFA before the match for permission to use their training kit in this, one off, situation, and, rather than to have to cancel the match, UEFA would be only too happy to agree. I may be wrong, of course, for I don’t have your high flying contacts, but just because something doesn’t happen (such as a fine for a minor infringement), or isn’t reported, doesn’t mean that TRFC’s strip-gate didn’t happen.
PS I’m sure that, if you are determined to prove us all wrong, as you seem to be, you’ll be able to find your club’s registered kits on the UEFA website and copy it over to here or provide a link.
JIMBOJULY 28, 2018 at 11:52
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The only explanation for The Rangers’ decision to restrict Celtic fans visiting Ibrox which rings true with me, is that it is in part a response to Ibrox fan’s requests.
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The last ibrox fans request was to start at the bottom. look how that turned out. Blamed everyone that they had been demoted,but they forget they asked to start again.
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Andy Kerr of the Rangers Supporters Assembly spoke.
The vast majority of Rangers fans now want to start again in the Third Division. We don’t want allegations from clubs saying we’ve tried to weave our way back in or bully people.
“We don’t want to ‘buy’ our way into a league and don’t want a manipulated situation. We just want to get back to playing football again.
“The Rangers fans want to be able to hold our heads up and fight our way back through the leagues. It’s important to us that we do it on our own merits from the bottom tier. That’s our unequivocal position – it isn’t tactics on our part.”
And after Wednesday’s SPL vote blocking Rangers newco’s application the SPL, Ally McCoist told RangersTV: “Like everyone else involved at our club extremely disappointed is putting it mildly. We are now in the hands of David Longmuir at the SFL who is certainly a man that Charles and I trust implicitly. He is a good honest man that I firmly believe has the best interests of Scottish football at heart, of that there is no doubt.
Cluster One, whatever happened to Andy Kerr’s view on things? That is alien to everything I’ve heard. Did Super Ally get rid of him?
…………………………
And ” Charles and I” that love in didn’t last long!
Regarding the red top, TRFC’s SLO said it was the 4th strip . So there !
Paddy, you behave on here!
Ally, get to bed.
Phew, that’s that sorted out!
THELAWMAN2JULY 28, 2018 at 15:18
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The responsibility of informing away teams to potential national restrictions is on the home team via UEFA and both teams hold a meeting in advance of both ties to clear things up. Osijek informed UEFA and the club at the pre-ties meeting last weekend. It is then the responsibility of the away team to comply as per the regulations.
Rangers have 4 registered strips with UEFA including the red one,
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How do you know this? and then why did they not have the red strip shown along with the other three?
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ALLYJAMBOJULY 28, 2018 at 16:27
Does anyone know if TRFC made it categorically clear that it was not a training top that the team wore and that it was, indeed, a registered kit?
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Yes i have something on that,give me a couple of minutes to find it.
I thought I had been saddened enough about that tragedy a few days ago. But now this additional information.
“One of the five people who died in a crash on the A96 in Moray has been described as a “really lovely” woman who will be missed terribly.
Evalyn Collie, 69, from Aberchirder, Aberdeenshire, died along with two friends when their car was involved in a collision with a minibus near Keith.”
The club’s supporter liason officer at least cleared up a couple of other things.
He revealed that the Red top,while sometimes used in Training,is actually a fourth kit and that there was no 32 red sponsor on the front because Croatia’s gambling laws forbids bookmakers to be advertised on strips.(hat tip to Mr clumps for reminding me )
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don’t know if Croatia’s gambling laws forbids bookmakers to be advertised on training tops.But that is for another day.
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He revealed that the Red top,while sometimes used in Training,is actually a fourth kit.
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Do any other clubs use a fourth kit for training,or are they not so skint that they have a designated training top to use for training
What I’ve been saying over the last day or so is that the red shirt is covering something up. I’ll get my coat now.
JIMBOJULY 28, 2018 at 20:44
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Cluster One, whatever happened to Andy Kerr’s view on things? That is alien to everything I’ve heard. Did Super Ally get rid of him?…………………………And ” Charles and I” that love in didn’t last long!
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I have something on that. Give me a minute.
Funny enough, on this day in history JULY 28,2018
Full article
CLUSTER ONEJULY 28, 2018 at 21:36
I get it now, CO. ‘Rangers’ take the unusual, but highly innovative step of announcing a new strip the day after (or later) they first wear it, and also take the opportunity to tell their support that the kit they’ve assumed was a training kit (because it’s the only kit they’ve been seen training in) is actually not a training kit, but is the fourth strip they’ve only just realised they’ve got – and, fortunately, it didn’t have the sponsor’s logo on – just like a training kit wouldn’t have, saving them having to get hold of sponsorless versions of the tops that have already been paraded as their new strips for the season. Phew!
A bit like the horse following the cart – but hey, at least they’re not trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes.
ALLYJAMBOJULY 28, 2018 at 22:13
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For scholars everywhere.
When is a training kit not a training kit?
Answer. when it is not advertised as a training kit, until it has been used as a fourth kit to state it is not a training kit as per say but a training kit sometimes used as a fourth kit that has not been advertised to the support that there is a fourth kit that was not used in the first away round but may be used again in later rounds if they get the chance and may not see the light of day again as a fourth kit if the injunction by Ashley is lifted.
Rangers SLO, Manager of the Louden Tavern. Lawman must know him, he’s a big favourite in the ‘Bears Den’, so I heard!
CLUSTER ONEJULY 28, 2018 at 21:36
Where did he say it was sometimes used in training?
MERCDOCJULY 28, 2018 at 22:52
I don’t know him at all. I’ve never met him nor spoke to him. Same goes with his dad. I believe they shared an account on Rangers Media.
What a fascinatingly detailed document is the ‘UEFA Equipment Regulations’ Edition 2018!
We have been told that TRFC Ltd has four different kits registered with UEFA.
That may be true. The source of that information is said to be TRFC Ltd itself.
That, of course, raises immediate questions about how credible that information is, coming from a source which in so many respects is tainted by the difficulties with the truth that the majority shareholder of TRFC Ltd’s ‘holding company’ is known to have had.
If it does happen to be that rare bird- a truthful, accurate statement from Ibrox- well and good!
But if it is not true [ and , of course, I am NOT questioning the personal honesty of any poster on here who has merely reported what he has been told], I find it of interest to look at how it might have come about that a team could find itself in a dreadfully embarrassing situation.
That simply should not happen.
Because any club Secretary (= legal bod) ought to have known about Reg 27.02 in relation to sponsorship advertising:
“27.02 Any bans or restrictions imposed by the domestic legislation of the country in which a UEFA competition match is taking place also apply.”
and what Reg 31.06 has to say
:31.06 Sponsor advertising may be worn for away matches subject to the restrictions of Paragraph 27.02. When it is possible that such a restriction may apply, the national association of the visiting team must contact the national association of the home team at least 12 working days before the date of the match (or as soon as possible after the relevant draw if within this deadline) and provide an exact description of the sponsor advertising in question. If the host association advises that the sponsor advertising in question is prohibited, it must provide written notice to that effect to the visiting team, and also notify the UEFA administration immediately.
and then
31.07 If the domestic legislation applicable at the match venue prevents the visiting team from using its approved sponsor advertising, the team may ask the UEFA administration at least two working days before the match in question for authorisation to replace it with a sub-product of the approved sponsor, a UEFA-endorsed programme (e.g. UEFA Respect or #EqualGame), or a charity logo in accordance with Article 32
So, if indeed the story that the red ‘training shirt’ is the registered 4th kit is a fabrication,who the feck fecked up?
I submit, m’Lords, that it was the visiting club, at a more sophisticated legal level than that of a kit-man.
And the SFA guys ( how they must miss people like Ernie and Jim, who, whatever else, would never have allowed such a situation to arise) are shown in a not very good light in terms of ordinary awareness.
Are we surprised?
[I have tried to check whether information is available on the UEFA website about the kits that have been registered by the clubs currently participating in either the CL or the Europa League.
I haven’t found anything, but that may just be me.]
MERCDOC 22.52
The Rangers SLO is in fact the son of the owner of the Louden.
JC, good luck with your current search. If you find anything pertinent then dates are once again very important and then this Kipling poem.
I keep six honest serving-men (They taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When And How and Where and Who.I send them over land and sea, I send them east and west;But after they have worked for me, I give them all a rest.
I let them rest from nine till five, For I am busy then,As well as breakfast, lunch, and tea, For they are hungry men.But different folk have different views; I know a person smallShe keeps ten million serving-men, Who get no rest at all!She sends em abroad on her own affairs, From the second she opens her eyesOne million Hows, Two million Wheres, And seven million Whys!
Ex LudoJuly 28, 2018 at 23:33
‘..Their names are What and Why and When And How and Where and Who ‘
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Ah, man! How that turns back the years!
My old man was a member of the Transport and General Workers’ Union. He gave me , in the tail end of 1958, the Union’s diary for 1959.
It was a nice wee diary, with stuff about industrial diseases and procedure at Union meetings: and Frank Cousins was General Secretary!
I have it here in my hand, and a flood of my memories as a 16 year old nearly drowns me!
I see that in the ‘Notes’ pages I made ( from whatever I was reading at the time) these kinds of observations:
‘ To a man who receives it rightly failure is only a spur to make the spirit stir and go in and fight once more’.
And, to your point , there is this:” If your lips you’d keep from slips, five things observe with care: of whom you speak, of what you speak, and how, and when, and where.”
I wonder now at that boy that I was!
And my entry for the 22nd January 1959 has a reference to the death of Mike Hawthorn, racing driver.
Man, I could weep for the boy that I was!
It’s that time of night JC. Ghosts from the past come back to gently remind us that history is what forms us and there are always lessons to be learned. In my time working the Unions became shadows of what they once were and the occupations I undertook precluded Union membership. For my grandfather it was an entirely different matter. A miner all his working life and with the scars to prove it he recounted a story during WW2 of him and a group of pit delegates from around the UK being summoned to London. It was a train journey in the winter of 1942 which took almost 20 hours. On reaching London the delegates were taken to Westminster Hall to be addressed by the Prime Minister. They were exhorted to get the miners to work harder and produce even more coal, which they duly did. The irony of being asked to produce more coal by Churchill was not lost on him and he was still alive to see the mines being shut down in the Thatcher era. I have never kept a journal but sometimes I wish I had.
SLIMJIMJULY 28, 2018 at 23:18
Both of us must be correct. Apparently he is the Manager as well.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/852650/rangers-have-appointed-greg-marshall-the-manager-of-famous-light-blues-boozer-the-louden-tavern-as-supporter-liaison-officer/
THELAWMAN2JULY 28, 2018 at 23:01
CLUSTER ONEJULY 28, 2018 at 21:36
The club’s supporter liason officer at least cleared up a couple of other things.He revealed that the Red top,while sometimes used in Training,Where did he say it was sometimes used in training?
Do Rangers have any orange tops. They don’t go on sale till October. This could explain why they wore the red top. The first and second choice strips, clashed with home sides top. They don’t have the third choice yet, so they had to go with fourth. Makes sense to me.
MERCDOC
JULY 29, 2018 at 09:16
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The fact that they aren’t on sale to the public doesn’t mean they can’t use them in games. They have already played in a couple of the three strips which have been announced as I understand it.
They played in a top which has never been announced to the public, rather than one of the three which have.
Doesn’t make sense to me.
What I meant was, they don’t have any orange tops at all. They just don’t have them yet. So they were forced to wear the red top. They have the other two but not the third.The first two strips clashed with the home side, sponsor or no sponsor on the jersey. The third they don’t have ( I haven’t seen them playing in the orange top ). So they had to wear the red top.
CLUSTER ONE
CO, Ive seen what he said on twitter and it wasnt what is quoted in the article. Im guessing thats why theres no quotation marks in it, though it is good to note the media have wrote about it despite claims otherwise.
FOR WIDER AUDIENCE
On Social media in a Rangers World there are 3 accounts/people/posters who seem to get exclusive scoops ahead of time. All 3 reported/tweeted/retweeted on the 2nd July that Rangers had registered 4 strips this season but would only have 3 for sale.
MERCDOC
JULY 29, 2018 at 10:18
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Your logic is that they don’t have the third top to wear, the one which fans are saying will sell in their tens of thousands. They didn’t get a set of those made for the team to play in.
However they do have a fourth top which no-one has ever seen before and they hadn’t even announced. That is a generic top which I would suggest few people are going to buy.
Sorry but that doesn’t even make sense. Certainly not as much sense as it being a training top, which they will have plenty of, with a white badge ironed on rather than a black one. With the “fourth kit” story made up to try to hide that they competed in Europe in a training top, because they didn’t have a suitable official one with them, and couldn’t source one in time.
Why did they not just play in the orange top without the sponsor. I can’t believe they couldn’t source the orange top without a sponsor on it ( Just cover the sponsor up, Mask it ). I’m not privy to the UEFA registration of Rangers tops, so I can’t say if it is a Red training top or a 4th choice strip. Why have they not wore the Orange top yet? Maybe they have. Maybe someone can enlighten me?
On teams having to borrow strips.
Back in the late 70s there was a thriving Civil Service Saturday Morning League with 3 divisions of around 12 teams a Division.
Not all clubs were Civil Service based but majority were and as a major employer the National Savings Bank had 8 or 9 teams.
One of them, who shall remain nameless, were managed by a chap with a very large family of brothers and sisters.
Their kit man was from same family (you can see where this is going can’t you).
Well the game is at Huntershill pitches just beyond Springburn and the Bank team shuffle in to strip.
On opening the kit bag out came the wrong kit. More kitty than kit if you follow me. An assortment of Y fronts, knickers and bras etc.
Luckily there were other games and a set of football gear was borrowed to enable the game to go ahead, much to the referee’s amusement and the teams embarrassment.
The ref spread the word through the Saturday morning referee fraternity (a great bunch of guys btw),where it was met with equal mirth.
Now I’m not saying this next bit is true but I don’t ever recall the term “Ya big girls blouse” being hurled at players by suppprters before that escapade, but I have heard it since….
Just saying.
This is about the only record of those days I could find on line.
http://www.sportfocus.com/webpro/ssmfl/dyncat.cfm?catid=29937
My team were formed in 77 so post date the period covered but in our first game South Side Strollers gubbed us 11 -1.
After that the only way was up.
HOMUNCULUS
MERCDOC
what colour is the second strip that they wear
I thinks its white Tony
TONYJULY 29, 2018 at 11:03
HOMUNCULUSJULY 28, 2018 at 18:01
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Now how did I know you were going to say that.
Let me guess, you got it verbally and you are not willing to share who you got it from, or why they would have told you but not the Rangers support.
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Homunculus
I share your scepticism . His twitter account is littered with such nonsense, at the same time claiming he has been involved in 25+ acquisitions, representing both buyer and seller .
This from someone who regularly uses “ done” instead of “ did “ and frequently blasts away at “ youse “
A linguistic mangler isn’t normally let anywhere near to the types of transactions in which he claims expertise and involvement .
Thats the measure of what someone does in their business life. Cant “Trump” that one eh.
It turns out its all been a terrible mistake.
The Rangers fourth strip was announced with the rest after all.
Barcabhoy,
I’m gonna be feart to post now!
(Plus I’m hopeless in the use of apostrophes).
But then, I’m not in the NUJ.
Jimbo
I think you’ll be fine unless you start claiming to have expertise in area’s where some form of linguistic competence is to be expected
Roll up, roll up, buy Rangers shirts cheap before they officially go on sale.
https://m.dhgate.com/product/2018-2019-glasgow-rangers-home-soccer-jersey/418909993.html#mstprod-3-null
MERCDOC
cheers
HOMUNCULUS
cheers
Now who couldn’t like this one? I would love this to be Celtic’s 4th strip.
EASYJAMBOJULY 29, 2018 at 12:05
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Roll up, roll up, buy Rangers shirts cheap before they officially go on sale.
https://m.dhgate.com/product/2018-2019-glasgow-rangers-home-soccer-jersey/418909993.html#mstprod-3-null
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That must be fake, no hummel on it.
JIMBOJULY 29, 2018 at 12:26
Now who couldn’t like this one? I would love this to be Celtic’s 4th strip.
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I think NewBalance might have something to say about that Jimbo. ….Maybe we could just tear up the contract eh.
I like it but. Even has some of Broony’s tattoos on it.
EASYJAMBO
JULY 29, 2018 at 12:05
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I suppose it was the decent thing to do. Give the counterfeiters images of their gear, then not release it themselves so the fakers can have a right good run at the market.
Do you think anyone will be releasing a version of the popular fourth kit. With or without advertising on it.
Barcabhoy
Very droll with that otiose apostrophe there.
Re the training top
In one sense that is trivial, however It reminded me of a saying I first heard from a Korean priest “when someone points a finger at the Moon the wise man sees the Moon the fool sees the finger”. The red top may be trivial but it is symptomatic of a chaotic approach to all things.
BFBPUZZLED
JULY 29, 2018 at 13:25
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Exactly (the top not the apostrophe)
Its not about them wearing the top they had never previously announced and then describing it as the fourth kit.
Its about the circumstances which led to them doing it. A professional outfit would have known they needed a strip sans the gambling advertising and would have brought one with them. One that didn’t clash with the other teams home strip.
Why didn’t they just take a plain version of the orange kit.
It would seem a lot of people (politicians) are getting uncomfortable with social media. Fake News. At the moment it is mainly centred around the political arena, but could it be the first step on the ladder?
The thing is, people are not looking towards the MSM so much nowadays. (Big Business under threat a hidden reason?) Instead people are receiving a lot of information from social media.
“The report said people were increasingly finding out about what is happening in the country, local communities and the world through social media – rather than through traditional forms of communication such as television, print media or the radio.
People were also less likely to question information shared on social media because most trust their friends and family.”
(The report is from the Commons Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee)
Is it any wonder? Did the committee examine the reporting of everything and anything to do with The SFA & The Scottish leagues in relation to Rangers & TRFC in the past twenty years?
Fake News? Lack of News? Bent News?
It’s the mainstream media we need protecting from.
Oh, and just in case you had any doubts about this being from the bowels of politicians, here’s one of their recommendations:
“A new tax on social networks could pay for digital literacy programmes in schools”
(All quotes from the BBC news site today.)
“At the moment it is mainly centred around the political arena, but could it be the first step on the ladder?” (Me, above)
Is that a mixed metaphor?
Maybe the digital literacy programme could be extended to posters like me.
Rangers playing in Blue Hummel top today. No ban on it. Just to clarify
jimboJuly 29, 2018 at 14:00
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Don’t worry Jimbo. You are doing just fine!!
I sometimes cringe when I look at posts and want to correct them. That comes from 43 years teaching.
I do, however, appreciate the time spent composing them.
Well, some of them!!!!
Seen this,
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/46/71/42/2467142_DOWNLOAD.pdf
Article 51 Colours 51.01
For all competition matches, the home club has the first choice as to which of its official kits announced on the entry form it wears for its home matches. In the qualifying phase and play-offs the clubs agree on the colours to be worn from the kits announced on their entry forms. If the clubs are unable to agree on the colours to be worn by their teams, they inform the UEFA administration, who takes a final decision. As of the group stage, the UEFA administration makes proposals for the kits to be worn. The proposals can be changed at the request of the clubs provided that the alternative solution does not lead to clashes in any part of the kit. If no agreement can be found, the UEFA administration takes a final decision.
51.02 In any case, if the referee notices on the spot that the colours of the two teams could lead to confusion, he decides on the colours, after consulting the UEFA match delegate and the UEFA administration. As a rule, in such cases it is the home team that has to change colours, for practical reasons.
51.03 For the final, both teams may wear their first choice of colours. However, if there is a clash, the team designated as the away team must wear alternative colours. The UEFA administration proposes suitably contrasting colours in advance of the match.
So the home team has to change it’s colours if all avenues fail. Which begs the question, why didn’t Rangers not just cover up the sponsor and use the 1st choice strip or 2nd or 3rd. They go for the 4th option, which if not registered on time, could cause them problems!
(50.04
Kit used by clubs as of the group stage must be approved by the UEFA administration. The following deadlines apply for the submission to the UEFA administration of samples of the first-choice, second-choice and any additional kit, including the goalkeeper’s (shirt, shorts and socks):
a. 3 July 2017 for clubs that qualify directly for the play-offs or the group stage;
b. 7 August 2017 for clubs that qualify for the play-offs via the qualifying phase)
Slightly off topic but an interesting article from Roy Greenslade on the MSM and new media.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jul/29/digital-media-opinion-facts-comment
Posting this because it reminded me of why I like TSFM so much. A civilised forum for debating the issues of the day pertaining to Scottish Football that embodies what we hoped new media would be when it came on the scene. A fact driven antidote to the biases of the MSM where dissenting voices are heard without rancour.
Will be making the usual donation as it is fundraising time but wanting BP & Tris know that their efforts to keep this space sane and welcoming are truly appreciated.
Well, that was a thoroughly enjoyable 90 minutes and Hearts have filled me with (probably) false hope that they might be able to do something this year – Ikpeazu looks like some shrewd business.
On the downside, I can only read one thing from Lafferty wearing blue boots and that’s incredibly disappointing. I seem to remember him waxing lyrical last season about how grateful he was for Hearts giving him a chance, but that’s obviously forgotten about now…
The_SteedJuly 29, 2018 at 17:06
Well, that was a thoroughly enjoyable 90 minutes and Hearts have filled me with (probably) false hope that they might be able to do something this year – Ikpeazu looks like some shrewd business.On the downside, I can only read one thing from Lafferty wearing blue boots and that’s incredibly disappointing. I seem to remember him waxing lyrical last season about how grateful he was for Hearts giving him a chance, but that’s obviously forgotten about now…
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I never read anything into the colour of a player’s boots, myself, TS, but noted how the BT pundits just managed to steer clear of mentioning that it could just be another Ibrox attempt to unsettle an opponent’s valued player, in a similar vein to last season’s Jamie Walker nonsense.
I mean, £130,000 up front for a rival’s top scorer with 19 goals in a low scoring season for the club, with only the opportunity to take part in the Ibrox moonbeams as a top up, is a pretty insincere offer, even by TRFC standards.
THELAWMAN2 JULY 29, 2018 at 15:08
The Rangers, a 6 year-old club which the football authorities are treating as/pretending to be the original club which died in 2012, is playing in Blue Hummel top today. Just to accurately clarify.
@ERNIEJULY 28, 2018 at 19:32
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Weirdest one was years ago when Thistle were playing Dumbarton away. We had a strip at that time which was half/half, one side red one side yellow. It was a bright sunny day and fans became bemused at the misplaced passes to opponents when we realised that from one side a half of the Jags’ top looked much like the Dumbarton top. At half time the referee made Thistle change their top and they played in borrowed tops from Dumbarton.
Jean Brodie 43 years teaching wow -every moment a pleasure no doubt I lost the will to go on when a student once told me that there was no such word as cognisance because he had never heard of it.
I wonder if Hummel has a deal predicated on shirt sales, they must be quite out of pocket supplying the four sets of kit and numerous badges even before training gear and must need at least 1% of the 500 million fanbase to buy the replicas.
If King has finally [???] arrived at the last chance saloon this season with TRFC…
Why has he not created a Crowd Funding page?
Not for charity or to help some unfortunate person, desperately needing help.
No.
To ‘top up’ the transfer pot – so TRFC can get back to where it belongs; winning titles, (sic).
Shirley the bears would rally to such a blatant demand for cash? [And who needs AML checks, when the source is from the WATP, upstanding citizens?
]
Jean, you’re too kind! We were all taught our grammar and punctuation at school – to within an inch of our lives – but we get rusty if not in use every day!
Tincks, that was a great read from Roy Greenslade. At least SFM is not guilty of this type of Social Media:
” Instead, what has taken hold across the net has been the opposite, based on the surfeit of fake news: a nasty, brutish, hysterical, intolerant mob proclaiming extreme opinions marked by racism, including both antisemitism and Islamophobia.”