UEFA Club Licensing. – To Comply or not to Comply ?
On 16 April 2018 The UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) adjudicatory chamber took decisions in the cases of four clubs that had been referred to it by the CFCB chief investigator, concerning the non-fulfilment of the club licensing criteria defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.
Such criteria must be complied with by the clubs in order to be granted the licence required to enter the UEFA club competitions.
The cases of two clubs::
Olympique des Alpes SA (Sion Switzerland )
and
FC Irtysh (Kazakhstan)
are of particular interest to those following the events under which the SFA awarded a UEFA License to Rangers FC in 2011 currently under investigation by the SFA Compliance Officer because
- The case documentation tell us how UEFA wish national associations to apply UEFA FFP rules
- The cases tell us what might have happened to Rangers FC in 2012 had they not gone into liquidation and as a consequence avoided the same type of sanctions that UEFA applied to Sion and Irtysh.
FC Sion (Olympique des Alpes SA)
Here we are told how the Swiss FL and then the UEFA CFCB acted in respect of FC Sion in 2017 where a misleading statement was made in the Sion UEFA licensing application.
Full details can be read at
but this is a summary.
In April 2017 the Swiss FL (SFL) granted a licence to Sion FC but indicated that a Disciplinary case was pending.
In July 2017 the CFCB, as part of their licence auditing programme, carried out a compliance audit on 3 clubs to determine if licences had been properly awarded. Sion was one of those clubs.
The subsequent audit by Deloitte LLP discovered Sion had an overdue payable on a player, amounting to €950,000, owed to another football club (FC Sochaux ) at 31st March 2017 as a result of a transfer undertaken by Sion before 31st December 2016, although the €950,000 was paid in early June 2017.
Deloitte produced a draft report of their findings that was passed to SFL and Sion for comment on factual accuracy and comment on the findings. Sion responded quickly enabling Deloitte to present a final report to the CFCB Investigation Unit. In response to the Deloitte final report Sion stated:
“il apparaît aujourd’hui qu’il existait bel et bien un engagement impayé découlant d’une activité de transfert. Ce point est admis” translated as
“it now appears that there was indeed an outstanding commitment arising from transfer activity. This is admitted”
What emerged as the investigation proceeded was that the Swiss FL Licensing Committee, after granting the license in April and as a result of a Sochaux complaint of non-payment to FIFA, had reason to refer Sion’s application to their Disciplinary Commission in May 2017 with regard to the submission of potentially misleading information by FC Sion to the SFL on 7th April 2017 as part of its licensing documentation.
Sion had declared
“Written confirmation: no overdue payables arising from transfer activities”, signed by the Club’s president, stating that as at 31 March 2017 there were no overdue payables towards other football clubs. In particular, the Club indicated that the case between FC Sion and FC Sochaux regarding the transfer of the player Ishmael Yartey was still under dispute.
The SFL Disciplinary Commission came to the conclusion that FC Sion had no intention to mislead the SFL, but indeed submitted some incorrect licensing documentation; the SFL Disciplinary Commission further confirmed that the total amount of €950,000 had been paid by the Club to FC Sochaux on 7 June 2017. Because of the inaccurate information submitted, the SFL Disciplinary Commission decided to impose a fine of CHF 8,000 on the Club.
Whilst this satisfied the SFL Disciplinary process the CFCB deemed it not enough to justify the granting of the licence as UEFA intended their FFP rules to be applied.
Sion provided the CFCB with a number of reasons on the basis of which no sanction should be imposed. In particular, the Club admitted that there was an overdue payable as at 31 March 2017, but stated that the mistake in the document dated 7 April 2017 was the result of a misinterpretation by the club’s responsible person for dealing with the licence (the “Club’s licence manager”), who is not a lawyer. The Club affirmed that it never had the intention to conceal the information and had provisioned the amount due for payment and that, in any case, it has already been sanctioned by the SFL for providing the wrong information.
The CFCB Investigation Unit accepted that the Sion application, although inaccurate, was a one off misrepresentation and not a forgery, (as in intended to deceive ) but that nevertheless an overdue payable did exist at 31st March and a licence should not have been granted.
Based on their findings, the CFCB Chief Investigator decided to refer the case to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber and suggested a disciplinary measure to be imposed on FC Sion by the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber, such measure consisting of a fine of €235,000, corresponding to the UEFA Revenues the Club gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
The CFCB Investigatory Chamber submitted that it was appropriate to impose a fine corresponding to all the UEFA revenues the Club gained by participating in the competition considering the fact that FC Sion should not have been admitted to the competition for failing to meet one of its admission criteria.
The Adjudicatory Chambers took all the circumstances (see paras 91 to 120 at http://tiny.cc/i8sxsy ) into consideration and reached the following key decisions.
- FC Sion failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 49(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the SFL not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Sion breached Articles 13(1) and 43(1)(i) of the CL&FFP Regulations. (Documents complete and correct)
- To exclude FC Sion from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next two (2) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19 and 2019/20).
- To impose a fine of two hundred and thirty five thousand Euros (€235,000) on FC Sion.
- FC Sion is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
It is now public knowledge that an actual liability of tax due before 31stDecember 2010 towards HMRC, was admitted by Rangers FC before 31st March 2011.
This liability was described as “potential” in Rangers Interim accounts audited by Grant Thornton.
“Note 1: The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.”
The English Oxford Dictionary definition of potential is:
Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future.
Which was not true as the liability had already been “developed” so could not be potential.
This was repeated by Chairman Alistair Johnson in his covering Interim Accounts statement
“The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player contributions between 1999 and 2003. “ where he also added
“Discussions are continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised.”
This could be taken as disputing the liability but In fact the resolution to the assessments raised would have been payment of the actual liability, something that never happened.
In the Sion case it was accepted the misleading statement was a one off misrepresentation, but at the monitoring stages at June 2011 in Ranger’s case the status of the liability continued to be misrepresented and in September the continuing discussions reason was repeated, along with a claim of an instalment paid whose veracity is highly questionable.
The Swiss FL Licensing Committee did at least refer the case to their Disciplinary Committee when they realised a misleading statement might have been made. The SFA however in August 2011, when Sherriff Officers called at Ibrox for payment of the overdue tax , did no such thing and pulled up the drawbridge for six years, one that the Compliance Officer is now finally charged with lowering.
The case of FC Irtysh of Kazakhstan is set out in full at http://tiny.cc/y9sxsy and is a bit more straightforward but is nevertheless useful to compare with events in 2011 in Scotland.
Unlike Rangers FC , FC Irtysh properly disclosed that they had an overdue payable to the Kazakhstan tax authorities at the monitoring point at 30th June 2017. This caused the CFCB Investigatory Unit to seek further information with regard to the position at 31st March
It transpired that Irtysh had declared an overdue payable at 31st March but cited their financial position (awaiting sponsor money) as a reason for non payment to the Kazakhstan FA who accepted it and granted the licence. The outstanding tax was paid in September 2107.
The outcome of the CFCB Investigation was a case put to the CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber who agreed with the CFCB Investigation Unit that a licence should not have been granted and recommended that Irtysh be fined the equivalent of the UEFA prize money, (that had been withheld in any case whilst CFCB investigated.)
The CFCB Adjudicatory Chamber however decided that a fine was not sufficient in sporting deterrent terms and ruled that:
- FC Irtysh failed to satisfy the requirements of Article 50bis(1) of the CL&FFP Regulations and it obtained the licence issued by the FFK not in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- To withhold four hundred and forty thousand Euros (€440,000) corresponding to the UEFA revenues FC Irtysh gained by participating in the 2017/2018 UEFA Europa League.
- To exclude FC Irtysh from participating in the next UEFA club competition for which it would otherwise qualify in the next three (3) seasons (i.e. the 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons). This sanction is deferred for a probationary period of (3) three years. This exclusion must be enforced in case the Club participates again in a UEFA club competition having not fulfilled the licence criteria required to obtain the UEFA licence in accordance with the CL&FFP Regulations.
- FC Irtysh is to pay three thousand Euros (€3,000) towards the costs of these proceedings. “
The deferral was because unlike Rangers FC, FC Irtysh had properly disclosed to the licensor the correct & accurate financial information required, so the exclusion was deferred for a probationary period of (3) years.
Comment in respect of the award of a UEFA Licence in 2011 to Rangers FC.
From the foregoing it could be deduced that had Rangers FC qualified for the Champions League (or European League) and not gone bust as a result and so not entered liquidation BUT it became public knowledge by 2012 that a licence had been wrongly and possibly fraudulently granted then
- Rangers would have been fined the equivalent of their earnings from their participation in the UEFA competitions in 2011
- At least a two year ban from UEFA Competitions would have been imposed, but more likely three in view of repeated incorrect statements.
- The consequences of both would have been as damaging for Rangers survival as the real life consequences of losing to Malmo and Maribor in the qualifying rounds of the Champions and European Leagues.
Karma eh!
Interestingly in the UEFA COMPLIANCE AND INVESTIGATION ACTIVITY REPORT 2015 – 2017 , the CFCB investigatory chamber recommended that both the Kazakhstan FA and Swiss FA as licensors
“pay particular attention to the adequate disclosure of the outstanding amounts payable towards other football clubs, in respect of employees and towards social/tax authorities, which must be disclosed separately;
Would the same recommendation apply to the Scottish FA with regard to their performance in 2011 and will the SFA responses thereafter to shareholders in a member club be examined for compliance with best governance practice by the SFA Compliance Officer investigating the processing of the UEFA Licence in 2011?
This would be a welcome step in fully restoring trust in the SFA.
ALLYJAMBO
Didn’t you know that a company is only guilty of fraud if everyone in the boardroom is aware of that fraud?
Didn’t you know that a football club is only cheating if everyone in the boardroom is aware that the actions the club is taking is cheating?
Didn’t you know that all the directors and office bearers of a company, or football club, are not duty bound, morally and under law, to accept responsibility for all the actions of their company, or football club?
Didn’t you know that what I’ve just said is a load of bollocks, but is what people representing the interests of those who have failed in their duty as a football club’s directors and office bearers would like us all to accept and believe? Or, at least, to give those visitors to the blog, who support a club whose directors have all acted either dishonestly or negligently, some comfort and reason not to turn their bile towards those who’ve let them down instead of those who have done them no more harm than to enjoy their misery after the damage was done?
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Aw man. What a way to completely misrepresent my views. So i will try and be clear as mud.
The EBT approvals were down to 1 man and 1 man alone, David Murray. He controlled the Rangers Board and he was the only single person who could stop them. Just as he was the only single person that could have stopped the sale to Whyte. I find it amazing that anyone on here or anyone who knows all about the Rangers case would disagree that Murray controlled the whole lot.
Now i dont know what way each individual Board member voted when EBTs were put on the table but im going to go out on a limb and say I believe they all nodded like poodles to what Murray wanted and were too protective of their Blazers and Freebies to be the one that speaks up. Every one of them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves if thats the case, and i believe it is.
If any of them were true professionals or real men, they would have stood down from their positions if they disagreed strongly about the use of EBTs. That includes Ogilvie, Odam, McLelland, Wilson, Skelly and Levy who were all named Directors at the time.
Can i please ask whose interests im representing here ? Can you name a name please. Can you tell me how it would come about ?
Do you think Campbell Ogilvie phoned me up the other day and said, “If anyone brings my name up out of the blue about something that happened 19 years ago, will you please defend me and i will send you some money?” and then on pops somebody on here and asks me about someone i hadnt even mentioned ?
I just dont get the thinking or the logic in this merry go round. I couldnt give a monkeys pee about Ogilvie. He was a puppet on a string and should be ashamed for not being brave enough to walk away. I just dont care about him. Its not that difficult.
TheLawMan2August 3, 2018 at 11:55 ALLYJAMBODidn’t you know that a company is only guilty of fraud if everyone in the boardroom is aware of that fraud?Didn’t you know that a football club is only cheating if everyone in the boardroom is aware that the actions the club is taking is cheating?Didn’t you know that all the directors and office bearers of a company, or football club, are not duty bound, morally and under law, to accept responsibility for all the actions of their company, or football club?Didn’t you know that what I’ve just said is a load of bollocks, but is what people representing the interests of those who have failed in their duty as a football club’s directors and office bearers would like us all to accept and believe? Or, at least, to give those visitors to the blog, who support a club whose directors have all acted either dishonestly or negligently, some comfort and reason not to turn their bile towards those who’ve let them down instead of those who have done them no more harm than to enjoy their misery after the damage was done?___________________________________________________________________________Aw man. What a way to completely misrepresent my views. So i will try and be clear as mud.The EBT approvals were down to 1 man and 1 man alone, David Murray. He controlled the Rangers Board and he was the only single person who could stop them. Just as he was the only single person that could have stopped the sale to Whyte. I find it amazing that anyone on here or anyone who knows all about the Rangers case would disagree that Murray controlled the whole lot.Now i dont know what way each individual Board member voted when EBTs were put on the table but im going to go out on a limb and say I believe they all nodded like poodles to what Murray wanted and were too protective of their Blazers and Freebies to be the one that speaks up. Every one of them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves if thats the case, and i believe it is.If any of them were true professionals or real men, they would have stood down from their positions if they disagreed strongly about the use of EBTs. That includes Ogilvie, Odam, McLelland, Wilson, Skelly and Levy who were all named Directors at the time.Can i please ask whose interests im representing here ? Can you name a name please. Can you tell me how it would come about ?Do you think Campbell Ogilvie phoned me up the other day and said, “If anyone brings my name up out of the blue about something that happened 19 years ago, will you please defend me and i will send you some money?” and then on pops somebody on here and asks me about someone i hadnt even mentioned ?I just dont get the thinking or the logic in this merry go round. I couldnt give a monkeys pee about Ogilvie. He was a puppet on a string and should be ashamed for not being brave enough to walk away. I just dont care about him. Its not that difficult.
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Aw man, that was a super-quick response to my somewhat non-event of a post. You must be desperate to fill the blog with nothingness.
I had thought to include a sentence saying how I expected you to come back with some long meandering post of said nothingness, but didn’t expect you to come back this quick.
I’m not interested in what you say in it, I’ve long given up taking your posts seriously, but I will say this, in that post you’ve not only excused all but Murray from the lies and cheating of Rangers, you’ve also said that they should be ashamed of themselves and that they should have stood down if they were aware of what he was up to. Quite contradictory, don’t you think, for, by the dereliction of duty that you allude to, they have made themselves all as guilty as Murray, and deserving of equal criticism as him, and Whyte, and every other incompetent and spiv who has followed them into the Blue Room since the demise of the old club.
To be honest, I can’t think of any reason why you would find it worthwhile to say one single word in the defence of any of them, let alone repeat, ad nauseam, the sad effort you are making.
AJ
You know how some children just need to be the centre of attention, you know how some children never grow up.
What they say or do is irrelevant to them as long as someone responds.
jimboAugust 2, 2018 at 02:15BigBoab, What’s that Photo?
Jimbo thats the Bates Motel where Norman (Steerpike from the late PMcC) kept his illusionary mum alive, bit like the Sevco scenario.
THELAWMAN2
AUGUST 3, 2018 at 11:55
I just dont get the thinking or the logic in this merry go round. I couldnt give a monkeys pee about Ogilvie. He was a puppet on a string and should be ashamed for not being brave enough to walk away. I just dont care about him. Its not that difficult.
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Actually it’s a wee bit difficult. Not only did CO (the original Corrupt Official)not say, “Ah’m no deain’ it Davey”, nor walk away, but he actually accepted unlawful payments.
Unlawful payments which, as nobody needs reminding, were instrumental in sending the club to it’s grave.
I honestly do get that Rangers(I.L.) fans were thrown a dummy life-line, and in desperation snatched at it. But the damage done, was done before anybody even heard of Craig Whyte.
I see what you are saying regarding Minty too, in that he ruled with an iron glove. You are saying Minty either paid them to commit unlawful acts, or menaced/intimidated/threatened/ even “Duped” them into doing so.
That doesn’t make them innocent…..That makes them vulnerable to becoming further involved in unscrupulous behaviour to conceal, after the fact.
There is evidence that points to it being exactly what happened.
Evidence that so many people are trying hard to ignore….
Argue the toss about, “Ma club’s no deid”….That’s fine and dandy.
A decade plus of prior cheating?…………Shhhhhhhhhh.
Maybe it is as you say, and you haven’t considered Campbell Ogilvie’s position. I suggest you might like to examine his role deeper.
Because only then will you root out the men who killed Rangers(I.L.)
Dinnae you fret about who came along later. It was a crooked operation to begin with. What type of person did you think it was going to attract?………
And who let the crooked operation happen?
40,000 bears baying for blood and asking difficult questions, is not something even a sheep in wolf’s clothing would want to face down…. Far easier to throw them a bone.
Named after Nicky Law and his most ardent defender on here posts here as Nick
Youse need to get your acts together . Youse done a dumb thing
* Spelling and grammatical errors intentional
”
Adam shakes Ibrox pillars with warning of bankruptcy
Published: 00:00 Saturday 02 February 2002
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Top of FormBottom of FormTop of FormBottom of FormTHERE are licensed premises in Glasgow where the regular patrons will consider the recent deeds and utterances of the former Rangers director, Hugh Adam, to be nothing less than acts of treason.
This should be regarded as a natural, almost understandable, reaction from immovably devoted supporters of the Ibrox club to the decision by Adam to unload his 59,000 shares in Rangers on the basis that they were heading towards worthlessness, thanks to the unsatisfactory business methods of the chairman, David Murray.
Almost certainly viewed as an even more heinous offence would be Adam’s claim that Celtic are run much more competently and that investment in the Parkhead club would be a much sounder proposition for anyone wishing to purchase shares in a football institution.
It would be tempting for many to dismiss Adam’s action as merely a gratuitous attack on Murray by a disillusioned, 76-year-old ex-employee carrying a grudge. But Adam has been a candid critic of the way Rangers have operated for years, ever willing to voice his unease – indeed, his incomprehension – at losses he has always insisted were unsustainable.
He also has impressive credentials, having been chairman and managing director of Rangers Development and Rangers Pools since 1971, raising the millions which built the modern Ibrox. Adam’s efforts brought the club around 18million, about 60million at today’s values.
To say that his final severance with Ibrox, after three separate terms as a director amounting to about 15 years of service, was done in a fury would be inaccurate, but in conversation this week it became evident that his decision is underpinned by unmistakable disgust.
Not given to sensationalism, this essentially conservative disciple of prudent forward planning and low-risk business principles did, however, cause something of a shock by observing almost matter-of-factly that, if Rangers continue on their present track, their ultimate destination will be bankruptcy.
“That’s the logical conclusion to a strategy that incurs serious loss year on year,” said Adam. “In the past five years – and it’s all there in the last annual report – Rangers have lost 80million.
“Now, the banks are well known for being a bit more tolerant of companies whose core business is a popular pursuit like football. But there is a limit to how far backwards they can bend to accommodate you.
“David Murray has always had an amazing persuasiveness when it comes to getting people to put money into his businesses, but the signs are that those sources have dried up.
“The 40million worth of shares that ENIC (English National Investment Company) bought a few years ago are now worth about 15million, with no evidence to suggest that they will recover. The money itself, that which was actually invested, was lost some time ago.
“Now the latest investor, Dave King from South Africa, will know that his 20million shareholding is worth around half, or even less, of what it was when he bought. No proper businessman will want to buy into that kind of loss.”
ADAM sold 12,000 of his 59,000 shares last year and the balance of 47,000 just recently. For the latter, he got 1.15 each; three years ago, they were valued at 3.45. He is convinced Rangers cannot trade their way out of trouble, unless they gain access to a league that will attract higher-bracket income from TV. He was in favour of the proposed Atlantic League, involving the Old Firm and clubs from Holland, Portugal and other countries, but is extremely sceptical of their chances of joining the English Premiership.
He is adamant that Rangers do not have the customer base to improve their financial standing through merchandising. “Rangers’ so-called global appeal is a myth,” he said. “When I was there, we did an exercise which involved asking 50,000 fans on the database to recommend a friend or a relative abroad.
“A big response was expected – some were even talking about getting 100,000 names – because everybody in Scotland seems to know somebody abroad.
“We got back 2,800 names and three-quarters of them didn’t know they had been nominated. It’s no surprise that Celtic are officially the best-supported football club in North America, with more official clubs than anybody else. The difference is the Irish connection.
“Many Irish people may support Manchester United, Liverpool or whoever, but they all – every one of them – have an affection for Celtic. And, of course, Celtic also have a great Scottish following.
“The difference is that, while the Irish all have an allegiance to Parkhead, there are millions of Scots who not only don’t support Rangers, but actively dislike them.
“Despite the claims of international appeal, Rangers are, essentially, a West of Scotland club. They talk of supporters’ buses leaving from all parts of Scotland, but if you look closely, you’ll see there aren’t many from each area and they are not all full.
“This doesn’t mean that even Celtic will earn fortunes from emigrant supporters. There may be more of them than Rangers fans, but it doesn’t mount to the kind of income necessary to fund their ambitions. But Celtic have been, since Fergus McCann’s arrival, much the better-run club.
“Fergus was the most unjustly maligned man in the history of the game, when you consider that he took the club from bankruptcy into the mainstream and built that stadium along the way.
‘NOW, the Celtic board have more financial heavyweights than Rangers, with people like Brian Quinn, Dermot Desmond and Sir Patrick Sheehy.
“It’s only in the last couple of years that Celtic have sustained losses, but over the five-year period they break even. But Brian Quinn and his board are taking steps to warn people that they are not in the business of heading towards bankruptcy.
“For their pains – for doing their job properly – they get crucified in the media, accused of penny-pinching. I don’t understand it.
“They are determined to keep Celtic properly managed, while Rangers, with Murray, is a one-party state and the man in power has an allergy to any form of personal criticism. But he’s not a businessman in the long-term sense of planning and prudence, he’s more of an impresario.
“But what has been happening is unfair on shareholders, and they’re being short-changed.
“It’s a nonsense, too, to say that Rangers’ shareholders are all supporters who aren’t interested in dividends or profits.
“That’s okay for the man with 50 shares, framed and hung on his wall. The number of shareholders in that category would amount to a minuscule percentage of the equity.
“But I’m 76 and haven’t had a dividend in years, so what’s the point of me keeping shares until they dwindle to nothing? And I’m certain the people at ENIC won’t be too pleased with their investment.”
Just to let the LM2 and his buddies know who rules the roost and why it came to be and how others with an obsessive nature attempted to emulate what cannot be built as evolution and historical happenings are just meant to be.
If I ever wanted to diminish the impact and level of insight into this blog which ever ticks away and occasionally becomes seminal I’d approach it on a separate and conquer basis.
My tactics would be to try to pad it out with stuff that turns some of us off in the hope that I could wind enough people up to respond into my various cul de sacs and take it from there.
I’d try not to be too obvious but know that there are certain magic buttons where there is enough rope to swing several leads.
I think this blog is generally all the richer for showing tolerance to everyone who contributes and want it to stay open but feel our balance has been out of kiltered.
I genuinely feel some of our brighter minds are being easily blind sighted by a debate that might be as pointless as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I also think that when a debate falls into the angels and pins category that it is elevated into its own designated spot in a new SFM Angels and Pins section.
The first section in this new series of threads could be Lawman’s Right or “the boy Moore was innocent” or maybe Lawmans Steers
That way the blog can continue along and those who value and relish debating Angels and Pins can see how many SFMers can dance on the pins with angels and all the Lawmen who post here.
BARCABHOYAUGUST 3, 2018 at 12:46Named after Nicky Law and his most ardent defender on here posts here as Nick
Youse need to get your acts together . Youse done a dumb thing
* Spelling and grammatical errors intentional
__________________________________________________________
Drat. Busted. I wont post as Nick again. Sorry lads and lass.
bigboab1916
August 3, 2018 at 12:48
Are you watchin’ me?
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/adam-shakes-ibrox-pillars-with-warning-of-bankruptcy-1-595808
And there’s more
THELAWMAN2Q 3, 2018
As others have stated the Lawman employs a pick and mix approach to how clubs from Ibrox have been run.
His dismissal of Campbell Ogilvie says a lot.
CO was invoked in the DOS project from the off.
He appears, despite being recognised as a great football administrator, to have ‘assumed’ that the laws of the land and footballing rules were being applied.
There is no evidence he ever delved deeper or sought advice on whether Rangers were squeaky clean in terms of footballing rules.
He then says ‘nothing to do with me Guv” which then makes you wonder what he was doing to earn a salary that was probably in six figures.
Does this type of incompetence and wearing of blinkers qualify a person for the SFA presidency?
Similar questions can be asked of Andrew Dickson who is still around the game.
Alastair Johnston’s answer to Rangers money problems has been reported as being simply to ask David Murray for more money. Yet he still wears the club tie.
Mini Murray’s heart seems to be in the right place but has clearly been well out of his depth.
The Blue Room has been filled with cheats or incompetent clowns or both for decades now.
It’s not just battling against Whyte and declaring a hate for King that will sort out any club from Ibrox.
It is acknowledging and understanding what the root cause of the problem is.
Simply dismissing small parts of the big picture is not going solve matters.
As I keep asking I am still interested to know what it is the club from Ibrox stands for and what it offers Scottish Football in the 21st Century.
My view is that the club will only be able to fully move on when a deep clean is undertaken and a full review of the SDM years is undertaken.
The trouble is far too many Bears are afraid to look in the mirror.
ALLYJAMBO
To be honest, I can’t think of any reason why you would find it worthwhile to say one single word in the defence of any of them, let alone repeat, ad nauseam, the sad effort you are making.
____________________________________________________________________
Who have i defended ?
We have been pillaged and battered from pillar to post by incompetent director after director after director. I cant name you a single director since 1987 who i would defend. They have all been incompetent and a disaster.**
** My only caveat would be directors in name who were just football ambassadors like Grieg who wasnt on the Board for his financial competence. Though i still wouldnt “defend” him.
The long read on the Guardian website is quite interesting, “Denialism: what drives people to reject the truth”.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/03/denialism-what-drives-people-to-reject-the-truth
LM2 @ 11.55
You’ve got a nerve asking for names ! I’m still waiting for links to your ITK guys so that I can check their pedigree . I promise to let them know that your good self pointed me in their direction lest they be troubled y the approach .
THELAWMAN2AUGUST 3, 2018 at 13:15
I see we seem to be getting somewhere.
Apologies forr any confusion but my last post seemed to get trapped in the ether but it appears we do agree on something given some of you posts this morning.
So we have a club with a history of a boardroom steeped in sectarianism, bigotry and a lack of regard for health & safety.
These policies and outdated attitudes saw the club decline to also rans until the arch borrower SDM came in.
While I applaud all he did to try and breakaway from the sectarianism of the past we now all know his regime was built on foundations of sand and that the prospect of success had RRM under his spell. Puppets or incompetents – it doesn’t really matter. It is the ethos behind the club that is important.
The principles of honesty and dignity were nothing more than a meaningless hashtag.
The present club is no different from the old one.
The fan base are being sold a lie that they are indeed ”’the people’s.
Supposed decent people in the boardroom and terraces are willing to go along with the ramblings of a convicted tax dodger in the name of tradition.
As seen on Glasgow streets last night there is a new generation of mugs (albeit aaminority but a significant and active one at that) buying into the nonsense and willing to fight for the cause. The cry is still No Surrender, blood and thunder when the vast majority of clubs are trying to move on
When and how exactly is a club from Ibrox going to make itself fit for the 21 at century?
Rather than spending time trying to defend the club of old or dismissing matters as being unimportant what can be done to bring about change that would let everybody move on?
LM2
Would you be happy to join a campaign to strip David Murray of his knighthood for his part in the destruction of your club ?
Would you absolve Hugh Adam of guilt ?
The SMSM is stating that the 2 stabbing victims are Croatian.
Regardless of who did what, when 2 visiting supporters, [I presume], are stabbed close to your own stadium, before a match with a Croatian side…you would think that the home club would make some sort of concerned statement, without accepting any responsibility, such as;
“We hope that the victims make a speed recovery, and we are assisting the Police wherever possible to identify the culprit[s] as a matter of urgency…”
Headline from the TRFC website / news section today;
“Tav Proud of Euro Display”
&
From the SFA website / news section today;
“McDonald’s and the Scottish FA to provide five million hours of Fun Football in new deal for grassroots game”
No mention of any trouble, of public disorder in Glasgow streets – again.
No reassuring noises emanating from either Ibrox or Hampden that it will not happen again.
Maybe UEFA will take notice ?
Phil’s recent update on the Rangers retail deal, Sports Direct and JD makes for very interesting reading. It is also consistent with the known knowns.
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2018/08/02/an-unconditional-favourable-settlement/#more-12112
Well worth a read if you haven’t already.
TheLawMan2August 3, 2018 at 13:15 ALLYJAMBOTo be honest, I can’t think of any reason why you would find it worthwhile to say one single word in the defence of any of them, let alone repeat, ad nauseam, the sad effort you are making.____________________________________________________________________Who have i defended ? We have been pillaged and battered from pillar to post by incompetent director after director after director. I cant name you a single director since 1987 who i would defend. They have all been incompetent and a disaster.**** My only caveat would be directors in name who were just football ambassadors like Grieg who wasnt on the Board for his financial competence. Though i still wouldnt “defend” him.
________________________________
So you agree then that they are all equally guilty in the implementation of the DOS and EBT schemes (those there at the time each was implemented) and of the hiding of side letters and lies to HMRC? If you don’t, then you are defending them, for it was their duty to ensure everything Rangers did was honest and within the law. Their cowardice or self-interest is no excuse.
Hugh Adam laid it out, very publicly, on a plate for them if their blindness to Murray’s duplicity prevented them from seeing it for themselves. If they were, in any way, decent and honest people they would have spoken to Hugh Adam and asked him to clarify and expand on what he meant and knew, for I am sure he would have told fellow directors much more than he was prepared to see published, but I bet they all dodged that bullet and decided it was best to play dumb.
After that very revealing piece by Hugh Adam, there is no hiding place for any of the directors and office bearers of Rangers, none whatsoever. There is enough evidence that the like of Ogilvie was prepared to accept any form of duplicity carried out to Rangers’ benefit that he should never be believed on any matter pertaining to the club or the people running it, and everything he said about the club should have been treated as the words of someone complicit in what had gone on and requiring documentary evidence before being accepted as truth or fact.
Interesting that you should say the following:
‘We have been pillaged and battered from pillar to post by incompetent director after director after director.’
I bet it didn’t feel that way at the time. I bet it felt great as your club pillaged and battered the rest of Scottish football through the use of EBTs. Murray and his cohorts weren’t just pillaging and battering Rangers when they went down the road of tax avoidance, and they weren’t doing it to Rangers deliberately, but clearly thought it OK to do it deliberately to everyone else. Even Hugh Adam wasn’t concerned with what it was doing to the rest of Scottish football, his piece held no warnings for them, no advice to find out what was happening. No, as with you and the directors involved, all that mattered was what happened to Rangers. They died, and bloody well deserved it.
STEVIEBC
AUGUST 3, 2018 at 15:12
The SMSM is stating that the 2 stabbing victims are Croatian.
————————————————-
Are you sure?
Most of the comments I read this morning pointed the finger at ‘Croatian Neo-Nazis’ who had attacked innocent bystanders on the the streets of Govan. One even stated that a policewoman had been stabbed.
Those comments were given some credence because Police Scotland failed to issue a suitable statement last evening.
The Herald this morning reported that, late last night, PS were waiting for the Match Commander’s report before commenting.
‘A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.’ — Mark Twain…
…and another, from the same chap:
‘If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you’re mis-informed.’
JINGSO.JIMSIEAUGUST 3, 2018 at 15:42STEVIEBC
AUGUST 3, 2018 at 15:12
The SMSM is stating that the 2 stabbing victims are Croatian.
———————————————————————————–
I’m not sure if it is still the case that Sevco deploy volunteer stewards in and around the stadium. As has been displayed when Scott Brown was approached on the field of play by a half-wit thug, a very clear and present danger exists. Especially if some fans are carrying knives.
It’s a matter the SFA need to ask urgent questions about.
Corrupt officialAugust 3, 2018 at 16:07 “I’m not sure if it is still the case that Sevco deploy volunteer stewards in and around the stadium. As has been displayed when Scott Brown was approached on the field of play by a half-wit thug, a very clear and present danger exists. Especially if some fans are carrying knives. It’s a matter the SFA need to ask urgent questions about.”
https://daviesleftpeg.wordpress.com/2018/08/01/738/
We at DLP Towers have talked for some time about our club’s penchant for employing individuals, not for the skills, the business nous or the football knowledge they possess but because they assisted the current board in gaining control. Every single previous “Fan Leader/Spokesman” now has a job at Rangers: James Blair as Club Secretary/Legal Representative, Chris Graham Club 1872, Greg Marshall SLO, Craig Houston Garrion Security Services (Stewarding). So for those of you wondering why previously vociferous “prominent” fans never utter a word against the board these days, quite simply it’s because they’re all employees. What better way of defending a football business from supporter attacks than to employ the main protagonists? Perhaps if we had employed individuals on merit we wouldn’t be in such a state in business terms? Club 1872 is run by a person paid for by the club, yet some fans still expect Club 1872 to challenge the board? Despite protestations late last year, Craig Houston won’t be donning the rat’s head again. Not because he doesn’t want to but because he’s now a paid employee of the company.
BIGBOAB1916AUGUST 3, 2018 at 12:48”Adam shakes Ibrox pillars with warning of bankruptcyPublished: 00:00 Saturday 02 February 2002Share this article
—————-
That saves me looking for the stuff i had on Adam.will add your post when i come across mine
Source J.J;
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-45057153
STEVIEBC
AUGUST 3, 2018 at 16:36
———————————
It was an ironic ‘Are you sure?’.
Apologies, should have made it clear that was the case.
FINLOCHAUGUST 3, 2018 at 13:00
===================
My thoughts exactly and the same as what I said 6 weeks ago.
The guy has an agenda to undermine the blog and shouldn’t be on here.
I contribute financially to this blog when called on by the Mods. Lawman2 doesn’t and I believe it is time to show him and his associates the door.
THELAWMAN2AUGUST 3, 2018 at 13:15
** My only caveat would be directors in name who were just football ambassadors like Grieg who wasnt on the Board for his financial competence. Though i still wouldnt “defend” him.
—————
And how could you.
John Greig £40,000 . Played for club from 1961-78. Managed Rangers from 1978 to 1983. Later became a director.
—————
I believe he also backed king
JINGSO.JIMSIE
AUGUST 3, 2018 at 16:42
STEVIEBC
AUGUST 3, 2018 at16:36
———————————
It was an ironic ‘Are you sure?’.
Apologies, should have made it clear that was the case.
=========================
No, apologies from me: I am a bit slow off the Mark today, well it is Friday;
“It’s better to keep your mouth closed…etc.”
Re the Craig Moore
————-
Craig Moore £1.1million . Australian centre-half played more than 90 games from 1994-98. Returned in 1999 and stayed until 2005.
—————
never knew that.
WOTTPIAUGUST 3, 2018 at 13:54So we have a club with a history of a boardroom steeped in sectarianism, bigotry and a lack of regard for health & safety.These policies and outdated attitudes saw the club decline to also rans until the arch borrower SDM came in.While I applaud all he did to try and breakaway from the sectarianism of the past we now all know his regime was built on foundations of sand and that the prospect of success had RRM under his spell.
—————
I believe he only took that stance because his club faced european expulsion.
CORRUPT OFFICIALAUGUST 3, 2018 at 16:07JINGSO.JIMSIEAUGUST 3, 2018 at 15:42STEVIEBCAUGUST 3, 2018 at 15:12The SMSM is stating that the 2 stabbing victims are Croatian. ———————————————————————————– I’m not sure if it is still the case that Sevco deploy volunteer stewards in and around the stadium.
———————
I think the advertisement for volunteer stewards was put out not long ago.
https://rangers.co.uk/news/club/calling-matchday-volunteers/
29 June 2018, 09:45
by Rangers Football Club
WOULD you like to be part of the Rangers team as a volunteer on matchdays?
Sorry to late to edit
—————And how could you.John Greig £40,000 EBT
STEVIEBCAUGUST 3, 2018 at 15:12The SMSM is stating that the 2 stabbing victims are Croatian.
Regardless of who did what, when 2 visiting supporters, [I presume], are stabbed close to your own stadium, before a match with a Croatian side…you would think that the home club would make some sort of concerned statement, without accepting any responsibility, such as;
—————–
They ran on to the pitch to protect the players. That kind of sort of concerned statement
StevieBC,
I agree, there should have been some kind of statement from Rangers at the very least expressing best wishes for those injured, with a later follow up expressing condemnation when more facts are known.
The fact that there has been no such statement, from a club all too happy to release statements about trivial matters, is just a very sad indictment of the people in charge and their complete lack of class and compassion.
The Evening Times tonight refers to them as “Scottish fans”; that is a diabolical smear-job on the whole country for the sake of sparing a select few, followers of one specific team.(James Forrest)
So fess up all of you Scottish fans who were at the sevco match.
https://twitter.com/scotspolfed/status/1025304023371526144?s=21
I posted this on the previous page but it was lost in the LM2 posts. Seems to support the ET narrative.
TIMTIMAUGUST 3, 2018 at 00:06
Well put
Re the share issue .
A month or so back DK stated
“I met with (company secretary) James Blair on Saturday and we have given the go-ahead for the share issue to commence immediately.
“I said, let’s accept the Takeover Panel will not be resolved in the next couple of weeks, let’s go ahead with the rights issue as it with the restrictions I have in participating.”
That was on the 7th may , 13 weeks have passed and still no sign of the issue .Looking at that ,it would seem that the share issue was a priority .I know nothing of what it takes to launch a share issue and the time frame needed is 3 months and counting normal.
Has the takeover panel put a block on the issue (refuting the PR line that the TOP business will have no impact on the club ) or has there been some other snag .
Also on the 7th june club 1872 made a statement asking for members payments and also donations to buy shares in the issue with the deadline being the 14th june .
==============================================
The total current funding available to the organisation, across both shares and projects, is approximately £960,000. Club 1872 members are now being polled on whether they wish to designate the share issue as a project – in order to be able to utilise this full sum for the share issue.
Once we know the outcome of this poll and the level of the additional funds raised this week, Club 1872 will confirm its level of investment to RIFC on 14th June.
On 15th june club 1872 confirmed it’s level of investment was £1m ,is this money still there ,it must be as there has been no share ISSUE .
There has been a significant trade of shares since then ,this taken from a sevco web site
==============================================================
See the link next to the name Borita Investments Limited Dealing Disclosure on the Club website linked below. It is dated today, 5 July 2018, and appears to show the named company as acquiring 3,632,500 shares in RIFC. That number of shares is, coincidentaly, held by Julian Wolhardt. That was his portion of the Ashley shares purchased by him and Club 1872 last Summer.
Two things of interest. The purchase price is shown as 0 pence. The purchaser is shown as Borita Investments Limited and the only trace I can find of them on Google is a Hong Kong Company long since dissolved.
Can anyone hazard a guess at to what’s going on here? Wolhardt transferring the shares from his own name to one of his investment companies perhaps?
It represents almost 4.5% of the holding company.
==============================================================
Could there be something in this transaction that the TOP are not happy with and it has halted any share issue .I know less than nothing of these things but could it be
That someone in DK position would welcome any pro DK supporter taking a stake in the company prior to him having to make the TOP offer ,someone he knew would not take the 20p offer keeping him bellow the 50% threshold .
There was another post on the sevco web site that had me thinking it was a tweet from a so called ITK sevco fan called THE PHANTOM
===========================================================
As predicted by myself many months ago @rayferguson8888 and his Singapore based consortium have made the first move in their Rangers takeover bid. Bought Julian Wolhardt’s shares using their Borita Investments Ltd vehicle this morning.
==============================================================
IIRC there was a guy who called into SSB on a few occasions when there was bad news on the sevco front ,waxing lyrical about how everyone else were ignorant of the goings on over at ibrokes and that he really knew the true story behind the scenes .
I have heard of companies using social media to manipulate opinion and lay false trials ,not that I am saying that is what’s going on here but there is something niggling me about this episode in the sevco sit com that just won’t go away .
Things we do know though .
DK stated he was going ahead IMMEDIATELY with the share offer on the 5th June 2018
Club 1872 issued statements as to funds to purchase shares on the 14th June 2018
Club 1872 and J woldhardt both bought out MA share in RIFC at 27p on 23rd june 2017
Borito investments ltd acquired 3,632,500 shares in RIFC on the 5th July 2018
J woldhardt had 3,632,500 shares in RIFC .
The share issue rush seems to have disappeared .
I am just wondering WHY
FoF 20:54
Excellent post , thanks for all that info.
Shug it was Chelsea, Millwall fans. Or was it the Hell’s Grannies, a terrible blight on our game. But it definitely wasn’t Rangers fans! OK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmzMzmnB-iQ
CLUSTER ONEAUGUST 3, 2018 at 17:29I think the advertisement for volunteer stewards was put out not long ago.https://rangers.co.uk/news/club/calling-matchday-volunteers/
———————————————————————————-
Cheers C1, Appreciated.
RYANGOSLINGAUGUST 3, 2018 at 18:21
Ryan, I’m a big fan of yours and agree with the thrust of what you say. However you refer to people who have been ‘injured’.
Stabbing surely is closer to attempted murder than a mere injury?
well here we are on the eve of a new football season and I for one am looking forward to the game tomorrow as I am sure so many of us are
We are a football nation as the latest ST figures show
One thing is for sure the governing bodies of our sport don’t deserve the support we give the game here
Alas the trouble is that the ST figures will convince them and our clubs that they are doing the right thing in keeping a lid on the cheating and corruption
What a strange situation to be in ,happy that our game is showing signs of recovery yet angry at the , in your face cover up destroying the very foundations the recovery is built on
Maybe he had a crystal ball.?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9376852/Rangers-in-crisis-Stewart-Regan-warns-of-social-unrest-if-Ibrox-fans-have-no-club-to-support-next-season.html
Corrupt officialAugust 4, 2018 at 00:10
‘…Maybe he had a crystal ball.?’
________________________
If he did, that was the nearest he had to cojones as a man in responsible office!
What a disgraceful readiness to capitulate to potential thuggery Regan displayed by that kind of statement!
We all know that bad bast.rds of football thugs, however many, have to be dealt with by the law of the land, not by cowardly appeasement and the abandonment of Integrity and Truth!
And for Regan to have so abused his position as to argue that the bad bast.rds had to be accommodated marks him as an unprincipled s.ine!
And Scottish Football is well rid of him.
New site nearly ready folks. Still a bit rough round he edges, but it is available for a quick look at it on
http://www.sfmonitor.co.uk
The comments mirror everything here up to last night, although comments are disabled on the new site until we put it into service. All logins should work ok too hopefully – as does the Donations Page 🙂
One of the new features which we hope to incorporate is a ‘mute’ feature so individual feeds can filter out posters you don’t want to hear from.
Working title is ‘The Law Button’
Any observations and suggestions are welcome
When it is ready for porting over, the url will be the usual one.
As the new season starts Celtic are strong odds on to win the league. I do’t think many people will be surprised at that.
However the “without Celtic” betting has Rangers at about 1/2, with Aberdeen available at 7/2 and Hibs at about 6/1 (8/1 at Bet Victor).
Given the last couple of seasons I think Aberdeen are decent odds at that.
I think the new site looks great. Very fresh and clean looking. Well done.
To get the new season off to a good start, I’m planning Ross County today and Aberdeen tomorrow. A trip of over 500 miles. We did Aberdeen vs Burnley last week, which was a real pleasure. Bumped into lots of very friendly Burnley supporters. One had travelled up from Bournemouth, which was impressive. That’s about 1200 miles, round trip.
Not sure if anyone covered this, but staff costs last year at Aberdeen were £7 million against £61 million at Burnley. There are some very well paid people at that club. Good luck to them though.
WOTTPIAUGUST 3, 2018 at 23:04
RYANGOSLINGAUGUST 3, 2018 at 18:21Ryan, I’m a big fan of yours and agree with the thrust of what you say. However you refer to people who have been ‘injured’.Stabbing surely is closer to attempted murder than a mere injury?
======================
I am the first to admit I am biased, like the vast majority of football fans. So perhaps at times I see things in my mind that others don’t see. Like the vast majority of football fans I see bias in how the media report on my club, on rival clubs, and on events surrounding my club or rival clubs.
So whether it’s bias or not I can’t help but think the media are tip-toeing around those stabbings near Ibrox on Thursday night, as does the Police Scotland statement. Why did it take so long to state it was Osijek fans who were stabbed, and why are we being told it was ‘Scottish fans’ who did it? There seems a real reluctance to face up to anything surrounding the behaviour of Rangers fans, as was evidenced by the ridiculous reporting after the Hibs v Rangers cup final. There are many really, really good people who support Rangers, many of whom are a pleasure to know personally, and every club has idiots and thugs following them. However, the media have no problem dealing with the idiots and thugs from other clubs and therein lies the problem.
The Daily Record didn’t have any problems with naming the football supporters and the firms that made them up. When they ran riot in my home town.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/football-hooligans-clash-in-coatbridge-2825721
upthehoopsAugust 4, 2018 at 10:45
“………..So whether it’s bias or not I can’t help but think the media are tip-toeing around those stabbings near Ibrox on Thursday night,………….”
The reason why the media will not report the facts is simple the cause and root of the problem was caused by their creation.
Did someone mention volunteers at a certain football ground last night?? …
Mods, if you want to move this video clip to the OC/NC thread, feel free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N01qCH8502Q
The playing down of the Ibrox riot in the media continues in the Sun where the article seeks to share responsibility across all clubs. The paper also manages to bring tomorrow’s Aberdeen game into it by referring to it as a “powder keg “.
Really? The opening game of a new season?
EX LUDO
AUGUST 4, 2018 at 11:26
The playing down of the Ibrox riot in the media continues in the Sun where the article seeks to share responsibility across all clubs.
———————————————–
There’s a comment in the Herald where the poster blames disgruntled, exiled Serbians for the violence against the Croatians.
The DR is still peddling the ‘Croatian yobs’ line…
Maribor fans must be looking at all of this and wondering if it’s worth the risk of coming to Scotland to see their team play at Ibrox.
A wee history lesson for Steerpike, …also known as, … Niall Walker, … Ernest Becker, … the lawman 2 … among a host of others, ……
PORTBHOY 11.53
Where does this come from?.
Strange how Rangers fans referred to visiting German teams as huns for many years after 61 then.
A little off topic. I was listening to ‘The Cut’ the BBC golf podcast as i lay in bed. I thought my ears deceived me, but on re-listen. Andrew Cotters welcome between 0.09secs and 0.11secs appears to say ‘Hello, Hello loyal listener’. Thin skinned me, or Freudian slip?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06g998t#play
HIGHLANDERAUGUST 4, 2018 at 11:24
Mods, if you want to move this video clip to the OC/NC thread, feel free.
====================================
Highlander. The only downside of the video is that it tells the story in a way that will alienate many people including neutrals. The truth is there and doesn’t need embellishment or put-downs.
It would be great to see a straightforward version of this video that can be added to an SFM ‘Files’ section. It would be good too to explain how the current entity got established.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Hello SFM
I’ve been a long time lurker and admirer of the site but just managed to access it to post for the first time so be gentle with me.
Love the level of debate and knowledge on here and the tenacity of people like john Clark, AJ, EJ etc. to see this thing through till the truth is out. It takes some fortitude as there is no doubt in my mind that those in power think that with a compliant (complicit?) media it will all blow over eventually and the culprits will have got away with it. I pray that this will not be the case and that justice will prevail.
Look forward to engaging with you all at some point but good luck for the new season and I have to say that as an exiled Scot, the positivity of the people on here about the Scottish game should be a benchmark for the SMSM but unfortunately they are the lowest of the low, unless of course a certain new club from Govan is doing well, in which case everything in their garden is rosy!
Jeezo,
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/
slimjimAugust 4, 2018 at 12:04
PORTBHOY 11.53Where does this come from?.Strange how Rangers fans referred to visiting German teams as huns for many years after 61 then.
___________________
Can you explain to us all what it is you are trying to say with that sentence? Other than as an example of how calling ‘Rangers’ fans ‘Huns’ is, perhaps, an insult, but not bigoted or sectarian in any way (and I’m certain your not trying to get that message across), it is difficult to work out why you have said it.
Allyjambo,
What I was trying to say, was the “huns” in football terms, did not originate from the Celtic support, but from the English press.
Charlie Adam oh dear!
He was making the point there that Celtic & The Rangers should always be at the top because of the fan bases.
He said because of the events of the past 7 years other clubs have been catching up with The Rangers, on the pitch, not off it!
My goodness, just about every club in Scotland is better run than them off the pitch.
A lot of disrespect to other teams.
He is now getting slaughtered for it thank goodness.
PORTABHOY 14.14
Can i ask again where this came from?.
Jimbo,Where is this slaughtering taking place? I would like to read about it.
BALLYARGUS,
It was on BBC Sportsound this afternoon. The programme started at 2pm, I would reckon his interview was about 2.30pm. Two pundits followed him and disagreed strongly with what he said. It will be on the iplayer I think.
SLIMJIMAUGUST 4, 2018 at 15:49
PORTABHOY 14.14Can i ask again where this came from?.
I never reveal my source,
… esp. to lippy wuns, … ehhh, ah mean ones
PortbhoyAugust 4, 2018 at 14:14
Allyjambo,What I was trying to say, was the “huns” in football terms, did not originate from the Celtic support, but from the English press.
_____________
Bit of a misunderstanding, I think, Portbhoy. My post wasn’t addressed to yourself, but to SlimJim and his idea that bears calling Germans Huns had some significance towards what you had posted. In my opinion there was nothing wrong with your post, at all, and I completely understood the significance of what you had posted.
Allyjambo, I know you are a well respected and learned poster on here.
Thanks for the reply.
Enjoyed the first game of the new season today.
It was good to hear many vocal voices when Mr Doncaster walked on the pitch.
As a new season begins Mr Doncaster was left in no uncertain terms that the fans will never forget and never forgive,their voices will never be silenced.
It could have been all so different,today he could have been applauded onto the pitch.
I wonder if in getting to sleep at night he ever contemplates that.
Not sure how it relates to the 1961 article or the German reference from Slimjim but i do know that Celtic fans sing “Go home ya huns” to Hearts and Kilmarnock fans as well as Rangers fans.
TheLawMan2August 4, 2018 at 19:16
“Not sure how it relates to the 1961 article or the German reference from Slimjim but i do know that Celtic fans sing “Go home ya huns” to Hearts and Kilmarnock fans as well as Rangers fans.”
We all know they sign it to the other clubs you mention but, why do you think that is, or is this something else that youre not sure about how it relates but, hey ho lets just throw out stuff you know nothing about.
Would you maybe consider it is probably an association to songs that praise the up to our knees in blood, a genre that links the description like marauding huns intent on carnage. Do you know of any other teams who have open songbooks that sign about wading in blood of human beings.
http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?327880-Hearts-Billy-boys
We are the Killie Boys.
LyricsHello Hello, we are the killie boys, Hello Hello we’re here to make a noise, We’re up to our knees in Ayr blood surrender or you’ll die, For we are the Ayrshire killie boys…
You wonder why wee up and comings think its alright to go to a football match tooled up like the other night and its alright to carry out an act of violence, whilst chanting these songs, of course they act like maurading huns.
Sevco like its predecessor is a cancer on the game, we know there are idiots in all support, but the organised and defiant displays like the march on fenians by the union bears takes idiociy to a new level, and the sad thing is someone within the club makes money out of it, someone actually promotes it and feeds it to fill a stadium and would actually give them more room than accomadate other fans from another team .
PADDY MALARKEYAUGUST 3, 2018 at 13:32
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LM2 @ 11.55You’ve got a nerve asking for names ! I’m still waiting for links to your ITK guys so that I can check their pedigree . I promise to let them know that your good self pointed me in their direction lest they be troubled y the approach .