Two wrongs and a right

Avatar ByBig Pink

Two wrongs and a right

The John James blog has of late thrown up many hooks to hang our theories on and provided much food for thought on the Rangers issue.

His casual invective against individuals, particularly Dave King, and often members of the Bench is not particularly SFM-like in its approach, but despite the industrial nature of much of the discourse, the value of his work cannot be denied.

On the subject of revisiting LNS, I find myself in agreement with his conclusions. His argument about Celtic’s attitude to Resolution 12 is to my mind compelling insofar as it serves as a barometer for Celtic’s disposition towards rocking the SPL/SFA boat. Like him, I cannot see any real evidence, (despite the recent statement by the club) that they are disposed to move in the direction of a revisited LNS (although it should be noted that besides Celtic there are another 40 clubs who may have an opinion on this).

His conclusions though should not be confused with his opinion on the rights and wrongs of LNS. Like most of us, he appears to be of the opinion that LNS was seriously flawed on multiple counts.

I saw Bill McMurdo’s remarks too in reference to the same topic. He alleges that the whole SFA house of cards would come down if information he has at his fingertips, information that off-book payments in Scottish football was much more widespread that the RFC EBTs, was made public.

UnderTableIf what he says is true, and he has evidence, he should be expanding on the innuendo.

If he chooses not to, then he is as complicit as those he accuses.

In any event, to say that no action should be taken because others have done it is not the same as saying that no action WILL be taken.

If he means the former, then he is wrong. By the logic of that argument it follows that burglars for example should not be prosecuted because other people burgle houses but didn’t get caught.

I suspect he knows himself that by any objective standard, this view is in error, because when he is called out on it, he reverts to ad hominem attacks on those who called him on it. No defence, just withering, dismissive sarcasm – in the manner of former pundit Jim Traynor when he refers to those who speak of sporting integrity.

If he means the latter, then he should do what he can do prevent it and make his information public. I believe he knows that the £3 note fraternity runs through Scottish football like lettering on a stick of seaside rock, but I suspect he doesn’t actually have evidence.

If there is evidence, then McMurdo is in a unique position to get it out in the open and make life difficult for those he alleges are corrupt.

Then we should go back in time as far as possible to investigate those who participated in “black money” schemes, whether they are EBTs, other forms of tax dodge, or just money in a brown paper bag.

I do not believe that any of us participating in the Scottish Football Monitor would fear exposure of any of our clubs. I think we all know that this is far more important than club loyalties.

If McMurdo’s information is correct, then we also have the opportunity to show that the clamour for revisiting LNS is not an anti-Rangers with-hunt. Instead of reconvening LNS, let’s have Bill’s info, and constitute a wider enquiry. If the info was made public, and it will now be difficult for him to put his genie back into the bottle, could the SFA and the clubs resist the pressure for such an enquiry?

handsMaybe McMurdo’s intervention/revelation may yet be seen as a seminal moment in the campaign to rid ourselves of corruption and incompetence in football.

Our position has always been clear. Corruption is counter to sporting integrity. Therefore it must be rooted out.

John James and Merlin are probably correct in that the clubs will seek to thwart any move for a new enquiry; and there could easily have been a deal done with King last week.

However there was also a deal done with Charles Green about the new club being parachuted into the SPL. How did that one turn out?

About the author

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Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

1,703 Comments so far

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upthehoopsPosted on7:19 am - Jan 15, 2016


Today brings a sharp reminder (if one was needed) of the vice like grip Rangers hold over the Scottish media. Yesterday reports began to emerge in the written media that Rangers had two bids rejected for one of St Johnstone’s star players. The highest of these bids was quoted at £150K. Last night the two bids in the spoken media had become ‘six figure bids’ which leaves quite a bit of leeway to the mind of the casual viewer or listener. Let us bear in mind this player is one the St Johnstone manager has spoken highly of all season, and who played a major part when his team outclassed Rangers at Ibrox earlier in the season. To any fair minded person, a bid of £150K would not secure the services of such a player. Yet this morning we are greeted with multiple headlines that ‘Rangers/Warbs will not be held to ransom. The implication is that St Johnstone are somehow in the wrong in rejecting these low bids. It is in my view despicable tactics by Rangers, and despicable reporting by the media. I do hope St johnstone come out with a measured statement today, but I’m sure the powers at be at the club know exactly the hostility they will be up against. Meanwhile Rangers continue to drown in expensive litigation in various courts throughout the UK.

Off to work now. Have a nice day. 

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on9:28 am - Jan 15, 2016


What I find astonishing about the IP still being registered with Sports Direct is not the fact itself- interesting though that is. What is unprecedented in this sorry saga is that the Herald (yes, that’s right folks, the fanzine of choice  for those Bears who can read books without pictures) has actually published a piece about “The Rangers” which-

  1. Is clearly not the work of Level5 PR
  2. Does not emanate from Chris Graham 
  3. Has involved a journalist PROACTIVELY contacting an impartial third party for information
  4. Does not “big up” the mighty gers
  5. Presents the facts in an unfavourable light for the Ibrox Board

I have to ask, is this some kind of turning point? Are the press bailing out early this time, rather than be made to look like total muppets yet again? 
As regards why the IP is still registered as owned by Sports Direct, while the securities in their favour have been cancelled, the answer is that we won’t know until a statement emerges from Ibrox or (unlikely) Sports Direct. I’m guessing it’s just a delay in doing the paperwork, but clearly the Herald think otherwise, and they have sources that I don’t have access to. I mean, what inspired the Herald to contact the IPO? Surely a source (the Ashley camp?) must have pointed them in that direction?
It’s fascinating, but I prefer Viz to the Economist, so the Rangers First “loan” farce fits the bill nicely. There’s certainly something for everyone in the Sevco saga. My view on that one is that RF have received legal advice on the lines of “go ahead with this, and your directors could end up personally liable for £500k”. That sort of advice usually has a chilling effect on even the most hot-headed.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on9:28 am - Jan 15, 2016


Maybe St Johnston should put in a £150,000 offer for Waghorn and see how Rangers / the papers react.

Would it be derisory, would it be insulting to both the club and the player. He is highly thought of by the manager and the support after all.

On a rights issue, if there is nothing stopping RIFC PLC having one and they desperately need money then why don’t they go ahead and have such an issue. Offer the shares to the exiting shareholders on a like for like basis on what they already hold. It seems like the ideal solution to me. It brings in new money (not loans) and helps the club see out the season without going further into debt.

Is it possible the existing shareholders don’t actually want to give more gifts to the loss making business with no line of credit. Maybe they realise it would be a failure and a public embarrassment. Dignity and public image is important after all.

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wottpiPosted on9:55 am - Jan 15, 2016


Enough time to get the Kettle on!

James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 5m5 minutes agoAt Glasgow Sheriff Court for judgment in case of 802 Works v Rangers International Football Club. Hearing due to start at 10.30

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wottpiPosted on10:06 am - Jan 15, 2016


Just a wee thought re the 802 WiFi.

T’Rangers are saying the system was not fit for purpose but from reports it seems they have already paid part of the bill (£600,000) and that the £300,000 I dispute is just the second tranche.

If it is not fit for purpose then surely they would be counter-suing for the whole sum and would have done so by now given their No Surrender and fists up attitude to anyone who diss’es the great establishment club?

Similarly if they are expecting to provide stadium WiFi system that caters for 50k then even if they got some money back from 802 there would be additional costs related to an entire re-fit or up-grade to cater for a full stadium.

Where is that money going to come from and where is the WiFi system on a list of priorities for a loss making football club without a line of credit from the banks?

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jimmciPosted on10:21 am - Jan 15, 2016


Well, Mr Dignity himself coming across in a rather undignified way as he “roars” in today’s rags that Rangers won’t be held to ransom. Interesting that the Brentford star as well as O’Hallaran both involved.
The brass necks of everyone at this club is staggering. Seems Rangers approach St Johnstone who are not looking to sell their player. That St Johnstone can be twisted to being the unreasonable ones? Could only happen in the SMSM where Rangers involved.
Would love Aberdeen or Dundee Utd to bid k£100 for Waghorn highlighting he’s a lower tier player with an inordinately high number of penalty goals within his tally – which will never be repeated at any other club – to justify their bid.
Now there would be fun to hear the media squeal over such a bud plus, of course, the dignified comments from Rangers.
Must say I’m very disappointed in MW. Started out as a pretty professional and seemingly decent guy. Rangersitis seems to have got to him though and now reverting to Ibrox type. Must be something in the Govan air.

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woodstein

woodsteinPosted on11:38 am - Jan 15, 2016


802 Works v Rangers International Football Club
We’ve lost the Sheriff, is there a deputy?
Apologies to Bob
10

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Jungle JimPosted on11:41 am - Jan 15, 2016


Is it just me or do other people get suspicious when the Sheriff is delayed for so long?  

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goosygoosyPosted on11:56 am - Jan 15, 2016


BBC
Mark Warburton has vowed that Rangers will not be held to ransom
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I can just imagine the press conference
MW stands on a table
surrounded by a gaggle of adoring ragmen
With one hand raised
He says
I
MW
Being of sound mind
Do solemnly vow
That the December 2012 company
Who own the May 2012 company
Who operate the club 
Who rent the name Rangers
And all its good history
From MA
Will not be held to ransom
By St Johnstone
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The kneeling ragmen rush for the door
 Eager to be first to publish the exclusive photocopy they all got yesterday
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nauseating or Hilarious?

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AmFearLiathMòr

AmFearLiathMòrPosted on12:34 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Following my post yesterday lunchtime about how the media would react to St J not accepting derisory bids, I wish I’d popped down the bookies and stuck a few quid on it happening – not that I’d have got great odds, obviously….
What’s surprised me about the media reaction is the speed of it.  Normally, there’s a couple of embarrassing bids, things get a chance to settle….. and THEN the MSM start to put pressure on the club/player in question to ‘do the right thing’.  Are they trying to force it through as quickly as possible this time before Celtic get a chance to get their paperwork together?!?

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on12:35 pm - Jan 15, 2016


James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes agoBreaking: Glasgow Sheriff rejects bid by WiFi company 802 Works to arrest £300,000 from Rangers FC
No surprise…

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ThomTheThim

ThomTheThimPosted on12:35 pm - Jan 15, 2016


No ring fencing. Another bullet dodged.
The T in TFRC must stand for Teflon!

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normanbatesmumfc

normanbatesmumfcPosted on12:36 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Untouchable FC right enough. In so many ways

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normanbatesmumfc

normanbatesmumfcPosted on12:43 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Without knowing the strength of either side’s cases, I was very confident this case would not go against the untouchables.

With funds tight to get them to the seasons end and promotion, thereafter the administration and league reconstruction to avoid relegation, there is no way the establishment were going to scupper the plan.

One question for the insolvency experts on here, will an administrator have the power to tear up the contract with Sports Direct? Obviously if they can pay off staff via redundancy, effectively cancelling the workers contract, is this possible with external contracts?

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Jungle JimPosted on12:58 pm - Jan 15, 2016


It might sound harsh but I have little sympathy for anyone owed money by Rangers.  

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wottpiPosted on1:04 pm - Jan 15, 2016


As discussed yesterday. No surprise at today’s result.

The plan is to get to season ticket time and then see how it goes from there. The Sheriff probably sees the logic in that and that there are cash streams in the future.

James Doleman now reporting losses reduced to £500k at December 2015 and Sheriff convinced there are people with deep pockets not willing to let the club go under.

Of course as we know it is the latter part of the financial year that things get difficult for clubs so how that loss projects to the full end of year is anyone’s guess. That being said it is encouraging to see some apparent cost cutting being undertaken (if you can trust what the figures say)

If the company has any kind of decent corporate governance and is sensible it will ring fence the £300k at an appropriate time (possibly at season ticket renewals) to cover the potential for loosing the 802 dispute when the case is resolved. Much in the same way SDM tucked away money to pay those known and potential tax bills (Not!)

If the money is not set aside then the old ways of spending what you don’t or may not have will be alive and well.

The issue is always going to be is their enough drip feeding of funds out there to meet the aims and ambitions of the fans and the rhetoric of some in the Blue Room.

The football club will lumber on but they are not going to be the all conquering team the fans wish for.

Today’s judgement will just add further to the unrealistic ambitions of the fans, who will be disappointed when the like of Messi, Ronaldo and O’Hallaron end up rejecting the offer of the blue pound.

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jockybhoyPosted on1:07 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Legal beagles: I know this was probably covered with Bain but I can’t remember.
If a company is in imminent danger of going into administration (or indeed liquidation) where debt owner have some preference but equity investors lose their shirts, employees lose their jobs and creditors get pence in the pound of whatever is left over. Surely someone coming to court with a petition in an effort to get preferential treatment by purely a first mover advantage is unfair.
Can someone run through what criteria someone would normally need to qualify for to get this approved by a judge?

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easyJamboPosted on1:09 pm - Jan 15, 2016


I’m not that surprised that the first half losses are down so much, given the departure of the last of the high earners and ST sales and attendances being significantly higher than last season.
 
But ……. and its a big but, most football teams struggle for income in the second half of the year while expenses are fairly static. (cup runs and televised ties do help though, and SKY are doing their best to help them).
 
Looking back at last season’s figures, they reported an Operating loss of £2.84M for the first half. If that is down to £500K, then its a decent improvement.
 
However the full year’s Operating loss was £9.94M, so that was a £7.1M loss for the 2nd half of the financial year.
 
We know that they have a forecast shortfall of at least £2.5M for the 2nd half with an assumption of modest gains on player trading, but I still think they will be looking at an annual loss of £4M-£5M for this season.

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essexbeancounterPosted on1:12 pm - Jan 15, 2016


wottpi 15th January 2016 at 1:04 pm #As discussed yesterday. No surprise at today’s result.

If the company has any kind of decent corporate governance and is sensible…
==========================================
Wottpi, I am quite sure that with so many “sensible” CAs available to advise…. 09

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on1:14 pm - Jan 15, 2016


wottpi 15th January 2016 at 1:04 pm
========================

Did he say if that figure was trading losses or net losses.

It is entirely possible for a business to have a turnover of say £18m, with costs of say £32m which means trading losses of £14m. However if they had a share issue which raised £22m then they could post a profit of £8m.

Apologies to the bean counters if I have used incorrect terminology in any of the above.

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DustinBreaks

DustinBreaksPosted on1:17 pm - Jan 15, 2016


They announced a 6.5m loan on 1st Jan. Was this included in the 31st Dec figure that showed 500k losses? Is it closer to 7m now they have paid Ashley back?

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on1:20 pm - Jan 15, 2016


So on opposite coast. Anything of note JC?

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wottpiPosted on1:21 pm - Jan 15, 2016


easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:09 pm

EJ –  knew you would be on hand straight away with the figures for last year.

No flies on you!!

While saving will have been made re dumping high earners, some of this will surely be off-set by the potential of legal costs for the various ongoing cases and SD challenges.

James Doleman reports that the Sheriff said both sides were to pay their own costs for this weeks match.

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easyJamboPosted on1:27 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 1:14 pm #
DustinBreaks 15th January 2016 at 1:17 pm #
=============================
Loans don’t appear in the Profit & Loss account, but would appear in the Cash Flow Statement demonstrating how any shortfall was/wasn’t financed.  The loans would also show under Creditors and/or Loans.  The loan position is actually only £1.5M worse than at the June 15 year end.

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John ClarkPosted on1:57 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Before Lord Menzies, Lady Smith and Lord Brodie in re Charles Green v RIFC plc
The teams:
For the Reclaimer ( i.e the guy who’s appealing, CG):
Mr Dewar, QC, with his ‘junior’, Mr Brown
For the Respondent ( i.e RIFC plc):
Mr Walker.
Proceedings commenced at 10.00 a.m in Court 1, Parliament House.
Lord Menzies in the Chair, reminded all that the reporting restrictions previously imposed were still in full force.
And that’s all, folks!07
Well, it’s about all that can be reported.
In fact, though,it was just a final check that Counsel would be ready for the trial hearing  on 29 January, and an opportunity to tidy up a couple of loose ends relating to ‘authorities’ to be cited and some expenses issues.
I hope it is not in breach of the restrictions order if I say that Lord Menzies ‘opening remark was to  explain to Counsel that an opening had appeared in the Court diary which allowed the bench to offer to Counsel the opportunity to proceed today to the full substantive hearing of the case, IF they were agreeable and prepared.
Sadly, Counsel, extremely grateful though were at the offer, were unwilling to accept it: one or two amendments to be made to the ‘notes of argument’ already submitted.
So, 29th January it remains.
Court adjourned at about 11.45.

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James DolemanPosted on2:05 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Full report from the arrestment case this morning
https://rangersfraudcase.wordpress.com/2016/01/15/rangers-win-300k-arrestment-case/

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Big PinkPosted on2:09 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Folks,

Accusations of a fix within the legal system are just not on. I am pretty sure that the Sheriff will not have arrived at his judgement on a whimor without proper recourse to the facts after an investigation.

I don’t know preciselt why he came to that judgement, but it does’t follow that it must “appear” to me that he didn’t bother to carry out any due diligence. It would on the pther hand seem to be obvious that if that were the case, said Sheriff would find himself the subject of an immediate appeal, and consequent exposure.

I also think it’s worth adding a bit of perspective in line with what jockybhoy said earlier – it seems intrinsically unfair that if a firm is at risk of insolvency that you can insert yourself in front of the queue before other equally deserving cases.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on2:10 pm - Jan 15, 2016


easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:27 pm  
    EJ you are probably best man to ask. Using the June to Dec period, the £500K loss, known income from ST’s TV, catering, and loans etc, and your best educated guesses at walk-ups, can you have a stab at how much they have rattled through in this 6 months period?.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on2:11 pm - Jan 15, 2016


STV are reporting (despite restrictions!) that Green has to post a bond for £50k in advance of the full hearing on 29 January. So that if he loses, then presumably can recover at least £50k of their own costs.
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1339222-green-told-to-lodge-50000-bond-ahead-of-rangers-legal-fees-appeal/

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wottpiPosted on2:14 pm - Jan 15, 2016


James Doleman’s full report into this mornings case
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Sheriff seems to have been happy to accept un-audited profit and loss accounts presented at the last gasp and the word of T’Rangers.

Clearly has not hears that the chairman is a ‘you know what’ according to legal minds elsewhere on the planet.

Makes you wonder at times with regard to how some peoples word is taken as ‘gospel’ when others are easily dismissed or more concrete levels of proof are required by the courts.

Why no mention of a request for the figures of future and predicted financial planning up to the point when the 802 case comes to court, which has been reported as potentially being 2017.

Would not be surprised if an ‘Ahmad type’ out of court settlement is agreed sometime in the near future with the whole debacle being swept under the carpet as if it never happened with little or no explanation being given to the Bears.

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wottpiPosted on2:25 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Big Pink 15th January 2016 at 2:09 pm

I don’t think it is a case of thinking there is a fix in the legal system. More a case of, like refereeing decisions, questioning how some decisions are made and the inconsistency of it all.

That doesn’t mean the thing is fixed, just that the man in the street has a hard time understanding how some decisions are reached.

As I said I am not surprised the arrestment didn’t hold but from James’s report it appears that, given what we think we know here and including the understanding of existing accounts  from the likes of EJ,  both sides looked pretty amateurish in terms of putting forward their case.

I am well aware that people have been grilled hard in the Sheriff Courts for hours and hours  on far more minor issues, involving far less sums of money, than appears to have been the case here.

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John ClarkPosted on3:13 pm - Jan 15, 2016


wottpi 15th January 2016 at 2:25 pm
‘I don’t think it is a case of thinking there is a fix in the legal system…
________
“Sheriff Miller said that he had been assured by Rangers” : the recently deceased Robert Black assured the courts and the police that he was innocent.
He was not so readily  taken at his word, nor is anyone else  when there are means of checking their veracity.
it seems to me that for a sheriff just to accept a company’s own word about the state of its finances is bordering on the reckless.

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neepheid

neepheidPosted on3:15 pm - Jan 15, 2016


The SPFL doing their bit- 

SPFL ‏@spfl 4m4 minutes agoIs Waghorn the best striker in the #SPFL? Find out where his goals have come from here http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/martyn-waghorn-goal-map/ …

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on3:45 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Iceman
According to JD. No is the answer.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on4:27 pm - Jan 15, 2016


easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:27 pm
===========================

Thanks for that.

Of course it is, they have swapped a £5m loan from one person to another group and borrowed an additional £1.5m from the same group.

If we are having a sweep can I say that TRFC Ltd will have trading losses of £7m to the year end June 2016.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on4:29 pm - Jan 15, 2016


So RIFC/TRFC avoided ringfencing but have to pay their own costs.
Fair enough.

Next critical decision point could be after the transfer window closes ?
Whilst they could probably offload some players from their payroll, how much cash can they reasonably expect from any transfer fees – when everyone and their dug knows that the Ibrox club is skint ?

And now in the DR the bold Bazza, [or more accurately his ghost writer], has implied that King should force his very short arms into his stitched-up pockets – and ‘only’ spend about GBP1M on a couple of players.
But he did qualify this by stating that the skint club has to be very careful with its cash…but buy a couple of players anyway !  

IIRC, buying players they couldn’t afford ultimately killed off that first Ibrox team/club/company ?

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on4:40 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Big Pink 15th January 2016 at 2:09 pm
=========================
Well said.

I think people also need to bear in mind that Sheriff’s and Judges make their decisions on what is put in front of them. So no matter how obvious people may think something is that does not mean it will go that way when ruled on in Court.

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stevensanph

stevensanphPosted on4:51 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 4:27 pm #easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:27 pm===========================

If we are having a sweep can I say that TRFC Ltd will have trading losses of £7m to the year end June 2016.
—–
I’ll go for £6m.  £500k loss in 6 months as opposed to £2.5m year on year, equals reduction of £300k/month.  Last year loses of £9.9M (?) which equals 6 month, monthly loss of £1.2m.  This year should be £900k based on £300k saving, so £900k loss from Jan to June.  £900k x 6 = £5.4m + £500k already lost = £5.9M… lets round up to £6M
(all numbers approx… and dependant on me remembering numbers correctly!)

PS – isn’t is strange that there has been no further ‘bids’ published re: O’Halloran. It’s although it was a ‘good news day’ for Sevco or something…

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James DolemanPosted on5:00 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Was the result I expected. Very difficult for a Sheriff to ignore a senior counsel and a board of directors of respected businessmen telling a court there is no prospect of administration.

I thought counsel for 802 Works presented his case well, but without evidence that other suppliers were not being paid or bills avoided he didn’t have anything to contradict the solemn assurances given to the court that all is well. 

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jimmciPosted on5:10 pm - Jan 15, 2016


The SPFL doing their bit-
SPFL ‏@spfl 4m4 minutes agoIs Waghorn the best striker in the #SPFL? Find out where his goals have come from here http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/martyn-waghorn-goal-map/ …
13 0 Rate ThisView Comment
————————
link showing an error on page. Maybe someone has had a look and realised the ratio of penaltiy goals was embarrassing – even for Rangers and the SPFL at 36% or 9 conversions from 11 awards; a remarkable number at this stage in the campaign and concluded this was not one of their brightest ideas.
Wonder what the stats are for the other 41 clubs?

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Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on5:12 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 4:40 pm

Was about to write something similar. We just need to remember how the LNS enquiry went, where his lordship had to make his judgement according to the evidence put before him, and where even the most ludicrous ‘evidence’, like Brysonism, had to be accepted as fact if not challenged by the other side.

Where MA might have limitless funds available to fund a most rigorous investigation of what goes on at TRFC, not to mention have inside knowledge, not every litigant can afford any more than the most cursory of investigation by, or on behalf of, counsel. Counsel will only put forward an argument in accordance with the instructions given to them. They were conceivably caught off guard by this last minute production of the half year accounts (as acknowledged by the sherrif) and not in a position to mount a challenge. 

What has to be remembered, though, is that, at this stage, the money is stil owed, and must be noted as a contingent liability in the accounts until a decision is reached in court. This was no victory today, and, in fact, by acknowledging that there was a primie facie case for the claim, we might say it was a score draw and 802 have the advantage of an away goal!

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on5:19 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Just a quick heads up that all but 2 of the 11 charges against TRFC Ltd assets have now been satisfied. The 2 which are outstanding are the ones to The Scottish Sports Council Trading as Sportscotland over Murray Park.

All of the charges to MASH and SD have been satisfied, including the one relating to “All intellectual property in the trademark”.

If these are still listed as being owned by SD I assume that is just an administrative thing and that they will be registered as back in Rangers hands soon. What is a bit confusing is that the charges were satisfied on 7th January and Companies House have updated their record, surely the trade marks people should have done the same by now. Maybe they just work slower.

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easyJamboPosted on5:59 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Corrupt official 15th January 2016 at 2:10 pm #
easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:27 pm  
EJ you are probably best man to ask. Using the June to Dec period, the £500K loss, known income from ST’s TV, catering, and loans etc, and your best educated guesses at walk-ups, can you have a stab at how much they have rattled through in this 6 months period?.
==============================
I’m not that familiar with the accounts to be able to make such an assessment particularly when we know very little about the breakdown of income or expenses.  There is also the issue of comparing oranges and tangerines, as last year’s interim accounts included RRL income and costs while the full year accounts omitted the RRL figures.
 
The accounts showed their income for the full year to be £16.5m, yet the half year figures showed income of £13.1m. If you remove the RRL income of £4.3m from the half year figures, then you are down to £8.8m for the first half and £7.7m for the second half.

What I can say with some certainty is that the ST income was £6.3m last season with an average net price of £237 for sales of 26,500.  This season the income should be £8.6m following a 5% price increase to an average £250 and sales of 34,000. 

Rangers average home league attendance was 34,798 last season including approx. 8,300 walk-ups while this season’s average is 44,882, including approx. 10,900 walk-ups.

The addition of other match day income such as catering will account for the bulk of the overall reduction in their losses during the first half of the year.
—————————
On the expenses side, the full year figure was £26.8m without the RRL costs. The half year figure was £16.1m including RRL costs which from memory were about £3m (I can’t find the source for that), so the split for the costs will be approx. £13.1m and £13.7m for each half year.

I would guess that they may have chopped maybe another £500k to £1m off their half year expenses

There are all sorts of other known unknowns, such as the income from the Commonwealth Games and the timing of RRL dividends, while “gardening” costs and Board salaries will be down.  
 

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jimboPosted on6:03 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Homonculus,  I touched on the exact thing you are posting about a few weeks ago.  I think my comments were “does the retired judge (LNS) live in a bubble?”  ” was he not aware of the results of the wee tax case?”  ” was he struck dumb?”  I paraphrase.

I do not accept that senior members of the judiciary can only determine a case by the written evidence before them and what ever the defence or prosecution counsel present to them.  ( I realise in civil cases different terminology is used for the opposing teams). 

Last night I posted a one liner after watching for the umpteenth time a Judge John Deed episode.  Now I know it is a TV Drama, but much in the same way as Yes Minister was a comedy drama it is based on actuality.  If John Deed thought the truth was being hidden from him or the jury he would most def. ask pertinent questions from either side or an expert witness (Bryson) or the accused.  In the interests of justice.

There have been several comments on here today about the Sheriffs satisfaction on the state of financial affairs with Rangers.  I think from my own point of view, with a background in management and to some degree in accounts,  I would have been less interested in the historical accounts of June to December 2015 (although they might be indicative.) but more with the finance department at Ibrox in the FORECASTS to the next financial year end.  Finance people and management do this on a monthly basis (Review projections).  Was that a consideration of the Sheriff?  It is in there that a future insolvency lies not what happened in the past six months.  Someone earlier said ‘everybody and their dug’.  I repeat that in this sense,  anybody and their dug connected to football knows that this is the hard part of the financial year – ST money has run out.  Indeed this is usually when some clubs appeal to the likes of Tickitus!  Or the Bank if you have a line of credit!    What would concern me is that the judge said the last 6 month P & L account weighed ‘heavily’ on his judgement.  

No suggestions of a ‘fix’ from me, just poor judgement IMHO.

We will see how it all pans out.

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essexbeancounterPosted on6:18 pm - Jan 15, 2016


jimbo 15th January 2016 at 6:03 pm #…I would have been less interested in the historical accounts of June to December 2015 (although they might be indicative.) but more with the finance department at Ibrox in the FORECASTS to the next financial year end.  Finance people and management do this on a monthly basis (Review projections).  
==============================================
Jimbo…hence my personal tendency to pay little more than passing lip-service to published company accounts…particularly if disclosed the evening before the latest day for filing at Companies House 08
However, I always read EasyJambo’s superb summaries of such historical accounts on here…wonderfully concise contributions 04

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on6:40 pm - Jan 15, 2016


easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 5:59 pm

    Thanks Easy.  So taking £300K as being 2% turnover, expenditure is still outstripping it by some way….Even in the cash rich portion of the year. 
    I calculated their expenditure during the period rather basically as £4.5m T3B’s loan, HK panda’s loan £6.5m
(which they hope to convert to equity) ST’s @ around £8m plus walk ups of around 10 x £200K(£2m) Then added the £500K deficit to Dec. Bringing a grand old total of £21.5m.  
   If the TV,  

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on6:44 pm - Jan 15, 2016


easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 5:59 pm

    Thanks Easy.  So taking £300K as being 2% turnover, expenditure is still outstripping it by some way….Even in the cash rich portion of the year. 
    I calculated their expenditure during the period rather basically as £4.5m T3B’s loan, HK panda’s loan £6.5m
(which they hope to convert to equity) ST’s @ around £8m plus walk ups of around 10 x £200K(£2m) Then added the £500K deficit to Dec. Bringing a grand old total of £21.5m.  
   If the TV, catering etc is added and spent, it is more. I am no accountant, but I am never skint. lol.  

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jimboPosted on7:16 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Essex BC, couldn’t agree more EJ has the detail, just like Auldhied has the time line And knowledge of rules. .  I can only talk in general terms.   04

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jimboPosted on7:23 pm - Jan 15, 2016


BTW Essex BC your contributions have enlightened the blog too! 02

Need to go I have a game to watch.

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easyJamboPosted on8:12 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Aberdeen hearing in the Fraudco case confirmed as Thursday 21st January.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/current-business/court-rolls/court-roll?id=2d47fda6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

 

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on8:16 pm - Jan 15, 2016


jimbo 15th January 2016 at 6:03 pm #

I do not accept that senior members of the judiciary can only determine a case by the written evidence before them and what ever the defence or prosecution counsel present to them.
==================================

Fair enough.

Like everyone you are entitled to your opinion. I absolutely respect that. In some instances opinions are irrelevant and it is reality that matters. Not what appears on a TV drama.

It was up to the person representing the wifi company to bring up the matter with regards future performance and say that was more important that what had happened in the past. If he chose not to and it was an important issue then it was him who let his client down, not the Sheriff.

The Sheriff would have asked what he believed to be pertinent question. He would have based his ruling on the answers to those questions. The answers from both sides. He is unlikely, in the extreme to have questioned the veracity of what either man told him.

With regards the wider concept of Judges and Court cases. For example where there is a Jury. They are there to take care of the law and ensure it is followed. The do not concern themselves with matters of fact. They will ask a witness to clarify an answer if they really think it is necessary but for the most part they will leave it up to the prosecution and the defence to deal with the actual evidence.

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jimboPosted on9:31 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Homonculas, I understand where you are coming from.  The Gravitas of the law.   But we have maverick judges.  Judge John Deed gets himself into all sorts of bother in London  by flying by his wings in the face of the Establishment.  

Lets consider the Judge Smith in the High Court In London recently.  Declared himself NOT TO BE A MASON.  Why?

Said he was aware of internet bampots like us. Why?

Said he might consider joining the Masons if John Greig invited him.  Why.

I suspect he has a sense of humour.  But is that the proper scenario?

He is a maverick, and again I suspect he is not alone.   You have to realise these guys and girls are one inch  below the law.   It would take something as grave as Lord ……..  to have his case dropped on death to escape justice.  Even for the victims still alive.  That would really rock the establishment.     Westminster  Eh?

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on9:43 pm - Jan 15, 2016


stevensanph 15th January 2016 at 4:51 pm # Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 4:27 pm #easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:27 pm===========================
If we are having a sweep can I say that TRFC Ltd will have trading losses of £7m to the year end June 2016.—–I’ll go for £6m.  £500k loss in 6 months as opposed to £2.5m year on year, equals reduction of £300k/month.  Last year loses of £9.9M (?) which equals 6 month, monthly loss of £1.2m.  This year should be £900k based on £300k saving, so £900k loss from Jan to June.  £900k x 6 = £5.4m + £500k already lost = £5.9M… lets round up to £6M (all numbers approx… and dependant on me remembering numbers correctly!)
PS – isn’t is strange that there has been no further ‘bids’ published re: O’Halloran. It’s although it was a ‘good news day’ for Sevco or something
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lets actually have a sweep and send the winnings to charity.
Im for -£6mil- £2.5 – £8.5, the £2.5 being legal fees:
Here’s some historic legal blow outs involving various at Sevco:

Stephenson Harwood paid £6m in legal fees for Rangers FC liquidationStephenson Harwood has picked up over £6m in legal fees, after it was involved in the three-year long liquidation of Rangers Football Club.  Commercial litigation partner Julian Cahn and restructuring partner Stuart Frith advised Rangers’ liquidators BDO, with £5.4m of the fees relating to a Part 7 claim commenced by BDO against the club’s former […]

Brodies Collyer Bristow Stephenson Harwood News Law firmsCollyer Bristow settles Rangers fight for £24mCollyer Bristow has settled its dispute with Scottish football club Rangers for £24m, bringing an end to the long-running litigation over fees the firm was paid following a controversial 2011 takeover.  Liquidators BDO had claimed over £50m in damages for professional negligence from Collyer Bristow in connection with its role advising venture capitalist Craig Whyte, […]
21 November 2014 14:20 17 December 2015 13:28 3 Verulam Buildings Collyer Bristow South Square Stephenson Harwood Taylor Wessing News Law firms

Rangers liquidators to plough ahead with Collyer Bristow ‘conspiracy’ trialThe liquidators of Rangers have pledged to proceed with conspiracy charges against the old club’s former law firm, Collyer Bristow. Litigation, which was due to culminate in a High Court trial in the new year, had been on hold while liquidators at BDO assessed the merits of proceeding with the claim. The action was initially […]
6 November 2012 17:32 17 December 2015 12:01 Collyer BristowWithey exits Rangers trial as intervener application droppedFormer Collyer Bristow partner and ex-Rangers Football Club company secretary Gary Withey has dropped plans to join the £25m trial over the football club’s finances as a defendant. The Lawyer reported in August that proceedings had been delayed after Withey expressed a desire to defend himself against allegations regarding his conduct in a claim for […]
15 October 2012 00:08 17 December 2015 12:16 FFW and Travers Smith score roles on Rangers’ £20m IPOField Fisher Waterhouse (FFW) and Travers Smith have been instructed to advise on Rangers FC’s £20m flotation on AIM. The club announced the IPO this morning, with FFW corporate finance partner Christine Phillips advising Rangers. Travers Smith corporate partner Philip Cheveley has been instructed by Cenkos Securities, the nominated adviser on the deal. In trying […]
11 October 2012 14:22 17 December 2015 12:17 BLM Travers SmithEx-Collyer Bristow partner Withey to join Rangers trial as defendantA case being brought by the administrators of Rangers Football Club against Collyer Bristow has been delayed after former partner and ex-club company secretary Gary Withey applied to join proceedings as a defendant. Up to now Withey, who was instrumental in businessman Craig Whyte’s doomed takeover of the Scottish club, was not party to administrators […]
13 August 2012 00:08 17 December 2015 12:34 Collyer Bristow defiant in face-off with Rangers administratorsCollyer Bristow speaks out about the Rangers FC case. By Sam Chadderton Collyer Bristow has spoken for the first time about how it will fight the claims that are threatening to drag the firm’s name through the muddy waters of a Scottish football administration. Following another week of negative headlines, the firm has spoken exclusively […]
Full extent of Rangers FC claims against Collyer Bristow laid bareThe full allegations against Collyer Bristow and former partner Gary Withey relating to the firm’s advice on the takeover of Rangers FC were revealed at the High Court today (24 April). In a explosive skeleton argument put before Mr Justice Arnold by South Square Chambers’ Mark Phillips QC, acting for the club’s administrators, Duff & […]
24 April 2012 17:19 17 December 2015 13:16 Collyer Bristow faces £25m claim from Rangers FC administratorsCollyer Bristow is facing damages claims of at least £25m over the firm’s role in the Rangers FC administration, The Lawyer can reveal. The ongoing legal wrangle in the fallout from the Scottish football club’s lurch into financial difficulties was adjourned last month so that wider claims against its legal advisers could be submitted to […]
17 April 2012 16:48 17 December 2015 13:19 3VB leads Collyer Bristow defence in case brought by Rangers FC administratorsThree Verulam Buildings (3VB) will today ’vigorously contest’ claims of professional negligence on behalf of Collyer Bristow’s role in the Rangers FC administration. The firm has instructed Clyde & Co partner Richard Harrison and senior associate Nicole McKinnon to fight the action brought by the club’s administrators, Duff & Phelps partners Paul Clark and David […]
16 April 2012 00:02 17 December 2015 13:20 Lawyer who advised on Rangers FC takeover takes role at SegensFormer Collyer Bristow partner Gary Withey, who advised businessman Craig Whyte on his takeover of Rangers Football Club, has emerged as a consultant at City boutique Segens Solicitors. Withey quit Collyer Bristow amid controversy last month after the football club was put into administration (5 March 2012). Rangers FC administrators Duff and Phelps said Withey […]
11 April 2012 15:21 17 December 2015 13:21 Collyer Bristow facing negligence claim over Rangers FC adviceCollyer Bristow is understood to be facing claims of alleged professional negligence and breach of fiduciary duty in the fallout over the administration of Rangers FC. The club’s administrators at Duff & Phelps, Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, have said that they have “substantially larger” claims to make against the firm, with the High Court […]
30 March 2012 12:27 17 December 2015 13:25 Rangers’ lawyer quits Collyer Bristow following club’s administrationRangers FC company secretary Gary Withey has left Collyer Bristow for “family and personal reasons”, the firm has confirmed. Withey, a partner at the firm, had become embroiled in the Glasgow football club’s administration, after advising businessman Craig Whyte on his takeover of the club last year. Collyer Bristow has confirmed that Withey left the […]
5 March 2012 16:25 17 December 2015 13:35 Biggart Baillie scores role on Rangers administrationScottish firm Biggart Baillie has been drafted in to advise as Rangers Football Club goes into administration. Rangers yesterday appointed administrators Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, both of Duff & Phelps, following a petition for administration to the Court of Session in Edinburgh by HMRC following the non-payment of around £9m in PAYE and VAT […]
15 February 2012 11:19

I could go on but you get the drift. //very expensive business spending your companies life in court.
For all the above thanks to The Lawyer online. (account mine)

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:16 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Ever wondered about media having bias or just reprinting mince. This is a summarry from News Now (I do this just to annoy everyone about once a year) Andyeas the Berwick rangers end up on the Sevco news! 07

This I assure you is the p—- printed or written about Pretendygers in the last 24 hours ×Vital Preview – Rangers v Livingston Vital Football – Glasgow Rangers 20:28In the last 4 hoursLoony Joons: Celtic, Rangers or the Junior Cup? Daily Record 19:39Match Preview: Berwick Rangers v Arbroath – SPFL Ladbrokes League Two Berwick Rangers Football Club 19:31Opposition Focus: Livingston Rangers FC – Official Site 19:02In the last 6 hoursSt Johnstone players taking the Michael out of wanted striker O’Halloran ESPN FC 17:48New Aberdeen keeper Adam Collin says ex-Rangers man Kirk Broadfoot sold him on move to the… Daily Record 17:27Newswrap #24 Rangers FC – Official Site 17:02Rangers Striker Points To Ronaldo and Robbie Fowler As Striking References Inside Futbol 16:20In the last 8 hoursLast Time: Livingston Rangers FC – Official Site 16:02I Saw Josh Windass and Matt Crooks Up Close, They’re Good – Rangers Midfielder Inside Futbol 16:00Rangers’ Biggest Loser Rangers FC – Official Site 15:52Wise up Warburton .. King was going to spend £30million Daily Record 15:49Halliday holds no Fyvie grudge Sky Sports 15:26Gedion Zelalem Exclusive Rangers FC – Official Site 15:02Green told to lodge £50,000 bond ahead of Rangers legal fees appeal STV 14:30Rangers win Wi-Fi cash ring-fence case BBC 14:26Ex-Rangers boss Charles Green ordered to lodge £50,000 bond with court officials ahead of legal … Glasgow Evening Times 14:17Barry Ferguson raves about 28-year-old Rangers target HITC 14:08Earlier todayHalliday Happy To Keep Holding Rangers FC – Official Site 14:02Lots of Clubs Want Ryan Hardie Admits Rangers Boss Mark Warburton Inside Futbol 13:29Rangers striker Martyn Waghorn speaks highly of young duo HITC 13:08Celtic May Need Leaf Out of Rangers’ Recruitment Book Feels Former Bhoy Inside Futbol 12:59Rangers’ Wi-Fi providers fail to have £300,000 arrested from club STV 12:54Bid to ring-fence Rangers £300,000 rejected Glasgow Evening Times 12:46Dumbarton FC: Sons boss delighted to sign Rangers winger Tom Walsh Daily Record 12:45Video: Weiss At The Double 2011 Rangers FC – Official Site 12:41Video: Lovenkrands Goal 2006 Rangers FC – Official Site 12:31Cammy Going Nowhere Rangers FC – Official Site 12:31Rangers Midfielder Joins Dumbarton On Loan Deal Inside Futbol 12:19Brentford boss lauds attitude of Glasgow Rangers target Get West London 12:09Rangers-bound youngster’s movement is excellent, says ex-Gers forward HITC 12:08Is Rangers’ youth good enough? Ibrox Noise 11:24Rangers History #7: Testing Time Rangers FC – Official Site 11:14Dumbarton add Walsh in loan deal Scottish Premier League – Official Site 10:48Rangers won’t pay over the odds for players insists Mark Warburtonnew Belfast Telegraph 10:46Martyn Waghorn goal map Scottish Premier League – Official Site 10:18Arnold Peralta: Police hunting killers of ex-Rangers player make their first arrests Daily Record 09:45Rangers v Livingston preview Sky Sports 09:40William Hill Scottish Cup – Rangers v Kilmarnock Kilmarnock FC – Official Site 09:36Rangers star reacts as Gers confirm signing of Football League duo HITC 09:06No hard feelings towards Fyvie over red card insists Andy Halliday STV 09:05Rangers shareholder Mike Ashley releases hold on key assets – but still has rights to Ibrox… Daily Record 08:54Mark Warburton: From trader to manager (Chapter 4 of 4) GersNet 08:36Rangers-bound versatile player is a lump, says ex-Gers forward HITC 08:06Transfer Talk: Leeds rule out Tavernier move, Robertson in £7m switch STV 07:37Aitken hails signing of Rangers youngster Tom Walsh as major coup for Dumbarton Glasgow Evening Times 07:15Barry Ferguson: Prove you mean business at Ibrox Dave King.. fork out the £1 million it will… Daily Record 06:03Rangers Manager Mark Warburton Roars: We Will Not Be Held To Ransom By St Johnstone Over… Daily Record 06:03Derek Johnstone: Andy Halliday and Jason Holt deals prove Mark Warburton has eye on long-term… Glasgow Evening Times 05:08Rangers boss Mark Warburton believes shopping locally still brings in quality Daily Mail 00:52Rangers Wi-Fi row sheriff to make decision on ring-fenced £300,000 STV 00:09

Compare and contrast:

My wee team
the last 7 days 03
Motherwell Record FC: Easy win over Cove Rangers proves Motherwell are back on the up Daily Record 14:56 Mon, 11 JanLaunch of the brand new Official Motherwell FC Tartan Scarf Motherwell FC – Official Site 18:59 Fri, 08 Jan

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gerrybhoy67Posted on10:19 pm - Jan 15, 2016


ianagain 15th January 2016 at 9:43 pm #stevensanph 15th January 2016 at 4:51 pm # Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 4:27 pm #easyJambo 15th January 2016 at 1:27 pm===========================If we are having a sweep can I say that TRFC Ltd will have trading losses of £7m to the year end June 2016.—–I’ll go for £6m.  £500k loss in 6 months as opposed to £2.5m year on year, equals reduction of £300k/month.
___ etc.etc.
Ian thank you for having all of this at your fingertips – it’s the reason I love this blog – the information is out there but the people who should be accessing it and accurately reporting it to fulfill their job description refuse to act. 

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jimboPosted on10:35 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Ianagain, Why do you think this is?   I honestly could not compare News Now outpout with Celtic.  But that reporting on Motherwell is below par by antybody’s standard.    Is it this level 5 stuff?  CQN recently said that Celtic do not employ these sort of James Traynoresqe people.

Perhaps the least said about us, other from our own clubs Pr is best.   After all think of the guff that comes out of Ibrox just now.   Would you not feel a slight embarresed?  If it was coming from Fir Park?  Stick to your own PR folk at least they tell the truth.

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Bogs DolloxPosted on10:36 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Allyjambo 15th January 2016 at 5:12 pm #Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 4:40 pm

Where MA might have limitless funds available to fund a most rigorous investigation of what goes on at TRFC, not to mention have inside knowledge, not every litigant can afford any more than the most cursory of investigation by, or on behalf of, counsel. Counsel will only put forward an argument in accordance with the instructions given to them. They were conceivably caught off guard by this last minute production of the half year accounts (as acknowledged by the sherrif) and not in a position to mount a challenge. 
What has to be remembered, though, is that, at this stage, the money is stil owed, and must be noted as a contingent liability in the accounts until a decision is reached in court. This was no victory today, and, in fact, by acknowledging that there was a primie facie case for the claim, we might say it was a score draw and 802 have the advantage of an away goal!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Sheriff acknowledged the late submission of the unaudited half year accounts. For half year accounts read prepared internally by TRFC staff – not previously renowned for their accuracy or forecasting.
I assume this is why the Sheriff allowed three days before his judgement to enable the WiFi supplier to have his people look at the numbers and make representations.
But my real question is this. Who really owns the WiFi company?

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:52 pm - Jan 15, 2016


jimbo 15th January 2016 at 10:35 pm # Ianagain, Why do you think this is?   I honestly could not compare News Now outpout with Celtic.  But that reporting on Motherwell is below par by antybody’s standard.    Is it this level 5 stuff?  CQN recently said that Celtic do not employ these sort of James Traynoresqe people.
Perhaps the least said about us, other from our own clubs Pr is best.   After all think of the guff that comes out of Ibrox just now.   Would you not feel a slight embarresed?  If it was coming from Fir Park?  Stick to your own PR folk at least they tell the truth.
================================================
jimbo
RIFC PR is funded 24 hours by DCK at enormous costs to RIFC. All to make him survive.
The Well have well no one. Apart from when Allan Burrows chooses to speak. I kind of prefer it that way. we do our talking on the park especially where Sevco are concerned.
I just do this yearly as a compare contrast thing. The meeja bias is apparent every day.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:57 pm - Jan 15, 2016


Bogs Dollox 15th January 2016 at 10:36 pm # Allyjambo 15th January 2016 at 5:12 pm #Homunculus 15th January 2016 at 4:40 pm
Where MA might have limitless funds available to fund a most rigorous investigation of what goes on at TRFC, not to mention have inside knowledge, not every litigant can afford any more than the most cursory of investigation by, or on behalf of, counsel. Counsel will only put forward an argument in accordance with the instructions given to them. They were conceivably caught off guard by this last minute production of the half year accounts (as acknowledged by the sherrif) and not in a position to mount a challenge.  What has to be remembered, though, is that, at this stage, the money is stil owed, and must be noted as a contingent liability in the accounts until a decision is reached in court. This was no victory today, and, in fact, by acknowledging that there was a primie facie case for the claim, we might say it was a score draw and 802 have the advantage of an away goal! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Sheriff acknowledged the late submission of the unaudited half year accounts. For half year accounts read prepared internally by TRFC staff – not previously renowned for their accuracy or forecasting. I assume this is why the Sheriff allowed three days before his judgement to enable the WiFi supplier to have his people look at the numbers and make representations. But my real question is this. Who really owns the WiFi company?
=============================================
Its owned by a husband and wife.
They didn’t see the RIFC figures (I believe) until today. Not 3 days ago.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:32 pm - Jan 15, 2016


JD is on the case but, neither Judge P Smith or the case appears on the court Rolls for Monday. Maybe he is Ill who knows?

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redlichtiePosted on12:12 am - Jan 16, 2016


The new film The Big Short has a quote in it that resonated with me.

“The truth is like poetry. And everybody f*cking hates poetry.”

Seemed most applicable to what we have seen from the SMSM and the bears in general.

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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Bogs DolloxPosted on12:51 am - Jan 16, 2016


  • Ianagain . How do we know for sure the husband and wife team are the owners of a company awarded a £1M contract. Can somebody who has access to accounts post up the last three years for this company please.
  • Are you believing they didn’t see the half year accounts until today or do you know that for a fact? If I was counsel to the 802 I would have asked for time to have my accountant look at the numbers to see if they stood up.

I’m not suggesting anything is wrong. I’m merely asking the questions this site is normally good at.

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Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on1:27 am - Jan 16, 2016


Bogs Dollox 16th January 2016 at 12:51 am
    BD, I can’t confirm it is a husband and wife team, but there is a male and female of the three with the same surname. There are more detailed (though unaudited) free account downloads under “documents” but they are not loading at the mo. Maybe try later.  
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC328179/802-WORKS-LIMITED/financial-accounts

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upthehoopsPosted on8:15 am - Jan 16, 2016


ianagain 15th January 2016 at 10:57 pm #
==================

In my humble opinion  the sheriff should have declared unaudited accounts invalid to the case. Any company taking on business with the club from Ibrox deserves everything they get now, and I’m not having a go at the Wi-Fi company.

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yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on10:33 am - Jan 16, 2016


UTH
Does anyone know how this company now goes about getting paid.

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jimmciPosted on10:40 am - Jan 16, 2016


I think my eyes and ears must have deceived me last night.Watching the game from Tannadice I would have sworn I saw the Media’s current bête noir, the dreaded smokebomb, being set off prior to the game.The smoke, this time, was orange and not green; the miscreants apparently DU fans. ( See what I did there – no immediate jump to conclude they WERE DU fans.)On Radio Scotland Tom English, in particular, took these clowns to task during the HT break.
So today I turned to today’s papers who’ve spent the best part of a week castigating the Celtic support for throwing off smoke bombs and guess what?
If a swift perusal if the Scotsman, the Herald and the Record are to be believed – I know, I know – it seems there were no smokebombs thrown last night. Not a single mention in any of these three organs’ webpages.
The contrast to last weeks’ hysteria is astounding; even to this old cynic. Make of it what you will!

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upthehoopsPosted on11:03 am - Jan 16, 2016


yourhavingalaugh 16th January 2016 at 10:33 am #
UTHDoes anyone know how this company now goes about getting paid.
———————————————–
Isn’t there already a case due in 2017 about the claim for £300k, and the recent case was an attempt to ring fence that money pending the 2017 case? I have a hunch they will never see a penny of the £300k, despite the Sherrif yesterday conceding they have a prima facie case. As I said earlier, I would have no sympathy for any organisation who chooses to do business with the club from Ibrox in the future. 

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John ClarkPosted on11:10 am - Jan 16, 2016


Bogs Dollox 16th January 2016 at 12:51 am
‘.. I’m merely asking the questions this site is normally good at.’
__________
Would to God that those who make their living as ‘journalists’ reporting on the ‘saga’ would also man up and ask hard questions.
The whole interminable nonsense of the ‘saga’ would have been avoided, or ended long ago,  if there were not so many liars /and/or coverers-up of the Truth in the professional media and in Football Governance, and the Police.
And, separately, did you hear that fool of an assistant-chief constable opening his fat mouth and spouting nonsense about supporters reporting ‘anything that made them feel uncomfortable’ ? What are we to make of that?

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John ClarkPosted on11:16 am - Jan 16, 2016


yourhavingalaugh 16th January 2016 at 10:33 am
‘..Does anyone know how this company now goes about getting paid.’
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Does anyone know that this company will not be black-balled in the IT communications world of Scotland and that its owners will not be ostracised for daring to seek what they are due? They showed some exemplary courage that puts our journos to shame!

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oddjob

oddjobPosted on11:28 am - Jan 16, 2016


Jimmci,
The Evening Times has an article on the smoke bomb at “Celtic ‘s” match at Tannadice. The article runs to 122 words, the bulk of which regurgitate the Stranraer episode.

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redlichtiePosted on11:35 am - Jan 16, 2016


Heard on the grapevine that RIFC/TRFC are so stuck for contractors that they have recently had to go to Aberdeen to find an IT/media company to work for them. News of the 802 wifi case will doubtless be the talk of the sector but the oil price ‘armageddon’ has obviously left such companies desperate for work.

Not sure how AFC supporters will view this local organisation giving such support to RIFC/TRFC but if the company ends up not getting paid then they’ll probably think that it serves them right.

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.

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John ClarkPosted on11:36 am - Jan 16, 2016


Corrupt official 16th January 2016 at 1:27 am
‘…. BD, I can’t confirm it is a husband and wife team..’
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Felix Gibson and Angela McIntosh were married in 1980.

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parttimearabPosted on11:37 am - Jan 16, 2016


Bogs Dollox 16th January 2016 at 12:51 am #Ianagain . How do we know for sure the husband and wife team are the owners of a company awarded a £1M contract. Can somebody who has access to accounts post up the last three years for this company please.
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Unable post up the relevant AR01s  on this device but from day one the company has had a grand total of two shares, £1GBP each initially both owned by Angela Gibson and currently one each to Angela and Felix Gibson so yes a husband and wife team.

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parttimearabPosted on11:42 am - Jan 16, 2016


jimmci 16th January 2016 at 10:40 am #I think my eyes and ears must have deceived me last night.Watching the game from Tannadice I would have sworn I saw the Media’s current bête noir, the dreaded smokebomb, being set off prior to the game.The smoke, this time, was orange and not green; the miscreants apparently DU fans. ( See what I did there – no immediate jump to conclude they WERE DU fans.)On Radio Scotland Tom English, in particular, took these clowns to task during the HT break.So today I turned to today’s papers who’ve spent the best part of a week castigating the Celtic support for throwing off smoke bombs and guess what?If a swift perusal if the Scotsman, the Herald and the Record are to be believed – I know, I know – it seems there were no smokebombs thrown last night. Not a single mention in any of these three organs’ webpages.The contrast to last weeks’ hysteria is astounding; even to this old cynic. Make of it what you will!
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In fairness to the Beeb last night’s reporting Scotland had an item on the pyrotechnic problem which was illustrated by a clip of United fans letting them off during the Scottish Cup last season.

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Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on12:24 pm - Jan 16, 2016


yourhavingalaugh 16th January 2016 at 10:33 am

Does anyone know how this company now goes about getting paid.
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They win their Court case, the money becomes due, if they are not paid they petition for a winding up order.

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