The John James blog has of late thrown up many hooks to hang our theories on and provided much food for thought on the Rangers issue.
His casual invective against individuals, particularly Dave King, and often members of the Bench is not particularly SFM-like in its approach, but despite the industrial nature of much of the discourse, the value of his work cannot be denied.
On the subject of revisiting LNS, I find myself in agreement with his conclusions. His argument about Celtic’s attitude to Resolution 12 is to my mind compelling insofar as it serves as a barometer for Celtic’s disposition towards rocking the SPL/SFA boat. Like him, I cannot see any real evidence, (despite the recent statement by the club) that they are disposed to move in the direction of a revisited LNS (although it should be noted that besides Celtic there are another 40 clubs who may have an opinion on this).
His conclusions though should not be confused with his opinion on the rights and wrongs of LNS. Like most of us, he appears to be of the opinion that LNS was seriously flawed on multiple counts.
I saw Bill McMurdo’s remarks too in reference to the same topic. He alleges that the whole SFA house of cards would come down if information he has at his fingertips, information that off-book payments in Scottish football was much more widespread that the RFC EBTs, was made public.
If what he says is true, and he has evidence, he should be expanding on the innuendo.
If he chooses not to, then he is as complicit as those he accuses.
In any event, to say that no action should be taken because others have done it is not the same as saying that no action WILL be taken.
If he means the former, then he is wrong. By the logic of that argument it follows that burglars for example should not be prosecuted because other people burgle houses but didn’t get caught.
I suspect he knows himself that by any objective standard, this view is in error, because when he is called out on it, he reverts to ad hominem attacks on those who called him on it. No defence, just withering, dismissive sarcasm – in the manner of former pundit Jim Traynor when he refers to those who speak of sporting integrity.
If he means the latter, then he should do what he can do prevent it and make his information public. I believe he knows that the £3 note fraternity runs through Scottish football like lettering on a stick of seaside rock, but I suspect he doesn’t actually have evidence.
If there is evidence, then McMurdo is in a unique position to get it out in the open and make life difficult for those he alleges are corrupt.
Then we should go back in time as far as possible to investigate those who participated in “black money” schemes, whether they are EBTs, other forms of tax dodge, or just money in a brown paper bag.
I do not believe that any of us participating in the Scottish Football Monitor would fear exposure of any of our clubs. I think we all know that this is far more important than club loyalties.
If McMurdo’s information is correct, then we also have the opportunity to show that the clamour for revisiting LNS is not an anti-Rangers with-hunt. Instead of reconvening LNS, let’s have Bill’s info, and constitute a wider enquiry. If the info was made public, and it will now be difficult for him to put his genie back into the bottle, could the SFA and the clubs resist the pressure for such an enquiry?
Maybe McMurdo’s intervention/revelation may yet be seen as a seminal moment in the campaign to rid ourselves of corruption and incompetence in football.
Our position has always been clear. Corruption is counter to sporting integrity. Therefore it must be rooted out.
John James and Merlin are probably correct in that the clubs will seek to thwart any move for a new enquiry; and there could easily have been a deal done with King last week.
However there was also a deal done with Charles Green about the new club being parachuted into the SPL. How did that one turn out?
Homunculus
i read it twice and still a bit baffled lol,i’m blaming last nights drink
sitonfencesays:December 20, 2015 at 12:49 pmI note with considerable interest that the STV interview with the Vice-Liar has been pulled. I suggest Mr McCormick may well have threatened legal action should Mr Murray’s falsehood continue to be propagated.
oops
tony 20th December 2015 at 1:20 pm
==========================
He must have taken quite some amount of drink.
ianagain 19th December 2015 at 8:57 pm #My wee club are problematic are they not?
Keep turning up and doing naughty stuff and helping along the big clubs. Like Stuart Milnes.
Armaggedon my ass.
=============================
Spot on. No Armaggedon in either of the top two leagues. In terms of your ‘wee club’ I was impressed with them at Celtic Park yesterday. The Motherwell Manager got his tactics spot on, and the Celtic Manager failed to come up with a plan B when required, and not for the first time. The interesting thing for me will be how Motherwell fare in their next game. A few weeks ago Kilmarnock got a good result at Celtic Park then followed it up with a bad loss in the next game. Incidentally, the Bhoys and I discussed in the pub last night whether we will bid for Scott McDonald in January! He controlled that game yesterday in our view.
All the best.
Homunculus 20th December 2015 at 1:16 pm
Pretty much sums up my thoughts when I read it earlier, Hom. That post seemed to me to be a bit of a mish-mash of known knowns and typical bear-assumptions that things will work out because it’s the ‘Rangers’! Even the certainty with which he says SD won’t call in the receiver because they won’t get their money back if they do seems a bit optimistic, as we know Ashley is ruthless and may well prefer to be seen as such than not to act. It also ignores the fact that he stands to gain more than just the value of the heritable assets he has good security over, and will join the list of unsecured creditors if his loan is not satisfied from his security. He may well be right, though, with Ashley not ready to pull the plug, but he doesn’t, as is the norm, let his readers know if it is just his belief/wishful thinking or if he has sound knowledge of SD’s thoughts on the matter.
Again, he seems to assume that BDO will ignore the best interests of their clients, the RFC creditors, so that some club/company they owe no favours to can continue to play football. I really don’t get that one. I don’t know who might have led him to believe this, but I can’t imagine for one moment that even BDO will know what they will do in the event the assets are returned to the liquidators, as, I am sure, the creditors will have a bigger say than BDO’s men do! Of course, he doesn’t say that the assets will be gifted to TRFC, just that they ‘would remain in RIFC’s care’, so maybe he means RIFC would lease them from the liquidators/creditors. As long as a fair rent was agreed, I am sure that that would be feasible as I am sure the main creditor, HMRC, would be happy with an annual income from it, until such time as all unpaid tax (and the rest of the debt) is cleared.
Displayed by the Aberdeen support, apparently.
Well said.
Homunculus 20th December 2015 at 2:58 pm
Believe it or not, there’s an Aberdeen supporter (seems to be genuine) complaining about that banner on Jamboskickback. Apparently because it was made by ‘Herberts with a Blue Peter fixation’. Seems strange that he should be insulting his own club’s supporters on another club’s site unless it’s the message he’s angry with, but it’s completely inoffensive, even to Milne, and not just some mis-spelt message painted onto a white sheet
. Perhaps some of our Aberdeen contributors would care to check their own sites to see if there’s anyone complaining about the banner in a way that might suggests there’s a counter offensive on the go, reaching, say, level5!
May just be a Don that thinks Aberdeen supporters should be above such things, but I’ve tried to engage with him to see if there is much support for what Milne said in support of, ahem, an enlarged top league!
Probably nothing, but it did pique my interest
Allyjambo 20th December 2015 at 2:10 pm #
================================
In my view, and it’s certainly not an informed one, the entity that is ‘Rangers’ will ultimately receive whatever protection it needs to survive. My view is simply formed from living in Scotland and being aware of how it works, as we saw in glaring terms in 2012, right up to the highest level in Government. In terms of BDO my non-legal, non-accountancy mind simply can’t get round why they are allowed to appeal the CoS decision. BDO had nothing whatsoever to do with the Rangers EBT schemes being set up, and no-one at BDO is suffering any reputational damage whatsoever from the unanimous decision by three Judges. Yet they can appeal on the basis of who get’s what from the creditor pot, with the added attempt to clear the name of those who set up the EBT scheme. I just don’t get it. Surely their only role should be carrying out the liquidation process with each creditor falling into line on the basis of what they are owed.
I am hearing there is a difference of opinions in the offices of the Sevco Auditors about the signing off regarding the accounts,nothing to do with guy that got the gig being a season ticket holder at Sevco 2012,more something not right,more to follow.
A couple of points from John James’ latest comments:
1. The Paul Murray interview has not been pulled by STV. I have just checked that it is still there.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1336390-shareholders-must-stump-up-to-fund-rangers-january-deals-says-murray/
2. JJ speculates that a new indictment for Charles Green may have been the rationale for repayment of the £5M loan. Repayment of the loan was first announced on 27th November. The new indictment on Charles Green was only communicated to his legal team on 15th December, unless his counsel was lying at the Court of Session the following day, when representing Green at the hearing on legal fees. You never know with these QC types, as apparently you can’t be sure that they haven’t made an honest mistake.
upthehoops 20th December 2015 at 4:21 pm
==============================
As I understand it when a company goes into administration or liquidation then the administrator or liquidator in effect becomes the board of the company. They make all of the decision.
So in effect it is the entity in liquidation (Rangers) which is actually appealing the decision.
With regard the amounts of money, if the appeal is won then the amount to be paid out will drop by something like £70m, from memory. That means that all of the creditors, other than HMRC themselves will receive a far higher amount than they would have.
I don’t have the exact figures to hand but just for illustrative purposes it means all of the other creditors will get two or three times as much as they would if the HMRC debt includes the EBT amount (including interest and penalties).
HMRC sit on the liquidation committee so I am sure this has been discussed between BDO and the HMRC representative.
Have they actually been given leave to appeal.
upthehoops 20th December 2015 at 4:21 pm
I am absolutely sure you are right, and that everything will be done to ensure the existence of ‘a Rangers’, but we must do everything we can to prevent them, in whatever reincarnation, being gerrymandered into a loftier position than they earn on the field of play.
Why did BDO see fit to appeal? We may never know the answer, but maybe they did it because they need to be seen to be thorough and doing their best for the creditors who were confirmed prior to the latest ruling. For all we know, they may well have had the nod from HMRC, confident that leave to appeal will be denied and their precedent will then be set in stone (if needed). We will, of course, have to wait and see how that turns out.
If I’m not mistaken, it’s been some time since anyone in authority, outside of football, has referred to the ‘Scottish Institution’, in any way, and I do wonder if the tainted nature of TRFC has frightened would be governmental, and other establishment figures, not steeped in Rangersness, champions off! Should leave to appeal be refused, and so RFC’s, and those associated, guilt be confirmed, there may be even less likelihood of support from people not wishing to associated with a tainted institution. ‘Society’ can be like that, I believe, especially with something that can be written off as that ‘common game of football’!
Allyjambo 4.15
Your nose for sniffing out trouble does you credit.
Apparently the person in question has a bit of a history in attacking other Don’s fans for some reason. I refrain from guessing but I think it right his motivations be questioned.
A wee question exactly what he found wrong with the banner and why he used the terms he did to describe the originators might inform other Jambos that there is more to it than the actual issue ?
In an earlier post I mentioned an Aberdeen supporter who had been a bit insulting of the banner holders at yesterday’s game. He responded to my post with a quite lengthy one, and I in turn responded to his points. I won’t reproduce everything from my response, but have reproduced one of his points and my response as I think, inadvertently, he has hit the nail on the head as to what was so very wrong with Mr Milne’s statement in the media. I’ve highlighted the pertinent part, and my response, in bold.
_____________________________
“Firstly, i don’t believe i ever said these two flagmakers had no right to voice their opinion, merely that they don’t speak for the support as a whole. With regards to “staying away”, at no point have i implied such a thing – at this point you’re comparing apples and oranges when you say Milne did nothing about getting Hibs up during a previous lower league stint; this was during a very different climate in Scottish football and this is what i see as the gist of Our Dear Leader’s comments.”
“At no point did I say you said they had no right to voice their opinion, nor that you had implied “staying away”, I merely asked how else you thought they should let him (Milne) know they are unhappy with what he said, and, as an example, asked if it might be to ‘stay away’. Your reference to ‘a very different climate’ hits the nail on the head, there was no Ibrox team in the second tier the last time Hibs were there, and so no one gave a toss about reconstruction! Every other club has to look after themselves and suffer the consequences of their failings (for one it’s much worse than mere failings, and includes death). Your chairman appears to see it differently as far as TRFC are concerned.”
_________________________
So, a very different climate! It certainly was, and it’s been a very different climate for the past four years, too.
I was hoping this chap would come back with a reply that Mr Milne had been badly misrepresented by the media, and that was why he was annoyed by the banner, sadly, he didn’t. I don’t think he’s a TRFC sympathiser either, just one of those supporters who see it as ‘my club, my board, right or wrong!’ All our clubs have them.
Auldheid 20th December 2015 at 9:20 pm
Auldheid, please see my previous post. He’s had short shrift from most/all of the Jambos who’ve responded to his posts. Like you, I really don’t get his animosity towards the banner holders, and I’m not sure, from his responses, that he does either!
Finally figured out the MO of MA
(With apologies to those who did so long ago)
IMO
This guy seems driven by 3 key guiding principles visibly discernible by his actions
The first principle
1. MA is unconcerned about the PR implications of his actions, particularly where it impacts his personal image and reputation. Although this is a common trait among Spivs it is uncommon with billionaires.
This means anyone trying modifying MA behaviour through negative media pressure is wasting time and money. It also suggests that any apparent response by MA to negative media pressure is attributable to his other two guiding principles and not to a PR concern
The second principle
2. MA`s short term actions are always designed to fit long term goals.
This means he thinks and acts strategically all of the time. So for example his pursuit of DCK through the courts is not a personal vendetta driven by emotion or a wish to avenge the removal of MA nominee Directors from the RIFC Board. More likely he sees the behaviour of DCK as just one of a number of legal issues that he can use to drain RIFC of cash.
i.e.
It suggests his legal team have been targeted to hike legal costs for both sides as long as they are confident RIFC have to pay their own (if not both sides) legal costs. It also suggests he will challenge some of Lord Smith’s pro RIFC comments if he decides SD must pay RIFC costs.
The third principle
3 MA`s starting point is always to stay within the law. This suggests he takes legal advice frequently and acts on it.
This means MA took legal advice before getting involved in Sevco.He will have been warned about the legal pitfalls of getting too close to genuine Spivs. People who might break the law on his behalf and not tell him in advance.
So the involvement of MA was no short term punt. It was and remains driven by the long term goals of SD.
MA is most unlikely to be into Sevco because he hankers after personal glory or is obliged to support the Brotherhood
We can also be fairly sure about another issue
It’s unlikely MA met face to face with any key Spivs involved in running RIFC since 2012 or got involved in any dubious ploys passed to him through 3rd parties. It also suggests any jiggery pokery during the early part of the saga was hidden from MA and he only found out about it informally.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Conclusion
It is very likely that
MA is the only big name in this saga with clean hands
MA will not figure as a player in the upcoming criminal cases
MA is the only candidate who can save TRFC
He is dispassionate enough to take on the SFA, the decent Bears, the Loonies and the Brotherhood
IMO
MA will save TRFC on his terms using a surrogate cleared in advance with the SFA
His biggest ace?
He has time on his side
…………………………
For TRFC the choice is ultimately
MA or oblivion
hello , just found another reply from pittodrie on stewart milnes comments from malcom paton. a reminder am only the messenger and would like to see mr milne knock back the papers statement,which we have yet to see. here goes.
Hi ……
The problem with speaking to the press is that they are very good at putting words into your mouth. Not all the media channels, just some of them. This can happen on a weekly basis with the players and manager and something we have to try and manage. The Chairman only speaks to the press after the AGM – as I think at a football club it should be the manager mainly who speaks to the press – not directors and the Chairman.
When Stewart spoke to the daily papers on Monday night he was very much speaking generally about the future of Scottish Football and not specifically about Rangers. I am not just defending him because I am a club employee but I really do think what he said was taken out of context. I have listen back to the quotes on a number of occasions now. The headlines also don’t relate to anything he actually said.
The joys of the press!
This is why through the club media channels (website, RedTV, and programme) we try and let the fans know what is really being said without all the spin.
But please be assured I have passed on your concerns. I also know many of the supporters agree with you.
Best wishes
Malcolm.
why didnt he say the new club?
here is my reply ,just sent.
thank you Malcom for your reply, since you are an employee you have no obligation to respond and I am very thankful for your correspondence. I just want to add, like many fans we were paying to watch a rigged game that the SFA rubber stamped[Ogilvie] and like many fans find it rather sad that the club directors throughout the land have not stood up to this. Most fans recognize the word and application of incorporation though this has no value with the current SFA. Why should fan’s bow to the blue pound , why cant the SFA and directors just call a spade a spade, if this is about the value of the blue pound then whats the point. If the new club fans were told directly tomorrow the actual truth from the SFA this would be the new start the game is screaming for then we can all move forward.If the fans of the govan club left in droves because of such an announcement then it would be safe to say that it wasnt about football for such people but more about their sectarian/unionst position. Like many I am sick to the back teeth of the SFA/media trying to sell our game on the back of hatred/sectarianism in this day and age. We should start from scratch all clubs reapply on the basis of football and not on the back of religion/politics or an ideaology. Thanks again Malcom for giving me some of your time and hope you will send this piece upstairs to the correct department. All the best to you in the new year . COYR. yours ……
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14157967.Fast_tracking_faltering_Rangers_into_the_Premiership_not_just_a_wild_fantasy/?ref=twtrec
utter nonsese
tony 20th December 2015 at 11:38 pm #
‘…utter nonsense’
________
Worse than that, it is ‘nonsense’ with an agenda.
Lindsay is, I opine, part of the propaganda machine, not a balanced ‘journalist’ but a supporter of ‘Rangers’, easily enlisted ,nay, a willing volunteer, in support of the Big Lie.
His sources are unsound and his judgement is highly questionable. For one thing, to say that Peter Lawwell says that the absence of ‘Rangers’ costs his club £10 M a season is to misquote him.
And I hope that Lawwell makes that clear!
And, speaking generally and in the abstract, would it come as surprise to anyone in this wicked world of ours that there are , imagine!, people who lie?
John Clark
Thing is I’m sure I read that you can’t have changes to the league unless you give at least a seasons notice so quite possibly rifc could still be in championship next season, providing of course that they are not around up by then
BBC reporting Blatter and Platini both banned for 8 years. Fines of 50 & 80 Swiss Francs respectively.
Fines seem small beer given amounts they have been skimming
If anyone wants to check if Celtic have lost £10m a season from Rangers being in the top division (or league as was) they can find out easily enough. Simply take the turnover, remove the figure for European income, leaving you domestic income. Then compare that to previous years (with the same adjustments) and see if the turnover has dropped by that amount. Even intuitively it makes no sense.
Or you can just take something which has become “true” because it has been repeated often enough and re-print it because it suits your agenda. Without doing even the most basic of checks to see if it is even remotely accurate.
People like Linsey are simply testing the water and trying to soften supporters up. Just to see if it will be possible should the worst (in their view) happen and Rangers fail to obtain promotion again. Finding out if the support will accept it and trying to paint the picture that it is in everyone’s best interests to do everything possible to place Rangers in the top division. They can’t “return”, never having been in it.
It is perhaps most telling that his article seemed to focus on Rangers failing to obtain promotion. What about Hibs getting back where they belong. I am quite sure the Hearts supporters are much more interested in that scenario. However I doubt very much they would push to get reconstruction so that Hibs are back up and they can renew their rivalry. This is with no disrespect to Falkirk, QOS, Morton etc. It is just the most obvious direct rivalry (to me).
It seems clear that the authorities, who were confident early in the season that Rangers would win the division easily (Keevins predicted 15 points) are now getting more concerned. The team is struggling and losing games, the last 8 or so haven’t obtained the points they would have hoped for. It seems unlikely that any significant sums will be spent in January to buy success, the money just isn’t there. Hibs could easily be ahead of them at the start of the year, and Falkirk aren’t far behind. The club could quite conceivably be third again this season. Looking at difficult play-off games.
Prepare for much more propaganda … for the good of the game.
May I echo the Aberdeen supporters from the weekend. It’s the fans who will decide when we are willing to “move on”, not the Chairmen. It’s our game, we know what’s good for it, and cheating to suit one club isn’t it.
“The prospect of Rangers suffering more difficulties and hardship may be too much for their counterparts to bear”
http://m.heraldscotland.com/sport/14157967.Fast_tracking_faltering_Rangers_into_the_Premiership_not_just_a_wild_fantasy/?ref=twtrec …
So TRFC don’t want a leg up into the top flight but everyone else wants them there for financial reasons. This is the nonsense that has led the TRFC fans to demand an apology from all members of the league before they will grace the top division again. Mr Wilson certainly knows how to feed the ‘rightful place’ mentality. This is a Club/Company that loses money hand over fist, that is about to be embroiled in more court cases than Rumpole and no one is sure what assets they actually still own if any. When the well trumpeted saviour of our game is in fact the main perpetrator of all the wrong doing and cheating that engulfed our sport then the lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum. Where does the sense of belonging end. Can they be relegated? Can hey afford to be only Runners Up? They are skint and run by some seriously dodgy individuals who have a penchant for being economical with the truth. Is this really what we need to save us? Or is that an ecumenical question?
Was there any point reading the Herald article after these couple of paragraphs?
The fact remains is that the game is doing just fine without Rangers in the top flight.
For my club Hearts, with the current feel good factor and full houses at Tynie, any additional monies from away support – from any team – will only be an advantage if the ground capacity of upped to 20k and additional Jambos can’t be encouraged to add to the 16k that are turning up at present. (Of course that bubble could burst but the board seem to be up for keeping it going as long as possible and looking for a mini Fergus McCann approach re stadium redevelopment and upping of season tickets).
The only ‘outside’ benefit to Hearts may be additional monies from a better TV deal, if the broadcasters still believe the old ‘Old Firm’ format is still a money spinner. As discussed the other day a decent deal that shows Celtic and T’Rangers games, regardless of what division they are in, to those club’s bigger fan bases can still be negotiated for the benefit of all.
From a Hibs point of view, them getting promoted and Rangers staying down is perhaps the best scenario . They get the income from the Edinburgh Derby, additional away gate money from the likes of Celtic and Aberdeen, a decent shot a re-establishing and promoting themselves in the top flight without all the focus being elsewhere.
Do folk honestly think Hearts would have got the same amount of media coverage, which has helped with the feel good factor, if T’Rangers had come up last season as well.
If Hibs fans responded in the same way as Hearts fans then they to could provide a decent number of fans at away games that other clubs can benefit from.
Looking the St Johnstone crowds they benefited from an additional 1700 fans when Celtic came to town the other week when compared with Hearts at the weekend and Dundee Utd in September. 1700 x £25 = £42,500. While every little helps the figures from Celtic and Rangers away fans, at some games, are not earth shattering.
The 40k plus Bears that turn up to support their club cannot be discounted from our game but neither should they be the be all and end all of the decisions taken by those in authority.
Bit off topic but could the porn star lawyer end up in the dock????
http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/financial-adviser-jailed-for-6-years-in-film-tax-fraud-scheme/?cmpid=amalert_1865420&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=mm_daily_news
From above link;
“A former financial adviser has been jailed for six years for his part in a film scheme tax fraud.
Neil Williams-Denton devised tax avoidance schemes based on tax breaks given to investment in the film industry, reports City AM. He attempted to defraud HMRC of £2.2m.
Williams-Denton, a former Greystone Financial Services director, was jailed alongside former EY partner Terence Potter, who was sentenced to eight years in prison.
Williams-Denton had already been found guilty of his part in the scheme.
Jennie Granger, director general of enforcement and compliance at HMRC, says: “This was pure greed by a dishonest tax agent, a financial adviser, and people who were already wealthy individuals. Those found guilty had no interest in the film industry, or regard for the impact on honest taxpayers.
“While it started with a tax adviser pushing a deeply fraudulent tax scheme, wealthy professionals investing in such schemes should be aware of the pitfalls. Those found guilty believed they were above the law, cheating the system by masking tax fraud as investment in films.”
So is it the bus designer/builder or bus driver responsible for the crash? Hmmm……
On a brief, and thoroughly unpleasant, visit to the one of the sweary websites, it seems that many of TRFC supporters will not be visiting away grounds if they succeed in being promoted (by whatever means) to the top flight. They refuse to give money to the “haters” apparently. So anyone counting on the “blue pound” may have to think again.
In my view any fast tracking of Rangers to the top league would only be done with the best interests of Rangers in mind. Given the continued large scale financial losses and the various ongoing court cases it seems likely to me they simply can’t afford another season in the Championship. I doubt very much if the individuals concerned are able to pony up another £15M in soft loans either. They are clearly unwilling to run on a shoestring budget and clearly see themselves as gaining European income the season after next. They have talked about it often enough after all.
Rangers fans often say ‘it’s all about the Rangers’. In terms of the Scottish football authorities and the Scottish media they could not be more correct. However, let’s not forget in 2012 documents were leaked which detailed the exact plans outlined by the SFA to admit the new Rangers to a minimum level of the Championship. The fans said no, and if you do it you can shove your season tickets where the sun doesn’t shine. I have absolutely no doubt it will happen again if they try any similar tricks in the event Rangers don’t get promoted.
Is there any other country in the world where one club, and one club only, is all those in governance of the game care about?
wottpi 21st December 2015 at 10:43 am #
The 40k plus Bears that turn up to support their club cannot be discounted from our game but neither should they be the be all and end all of the decisions taken by those in authority.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Frankly
The number of fan who attend TRFC home games is irrelevant to the finances of all other clubs
Over 90% of the money goes to TRFC and away clubs are levied a fee on any tickets they sell
goosygoosy 21st December 2015 at 12:00 pm
Don’t disagree with that but they are still fans of the game, regardless of where the money ends up.
I’d be just as well saying fans of Celtic, Aberdeen Hibs etc aren’t worth worrying about just because they are not Hearts fans.
I think we all agree that we would like to rid the sport of the more undesirable sections of T’Rangers support but at the end of the day there are a lot of folk just wanting to go and watch their team play football.
I am not saying they need any special favours, just that they are considered and dealt with on a level playing field as we would like to be treated ourselves.
Asked whether Blatter and Platini etc face a long legal process, Andrew Jennings thinks it’s actually the end for FIFA, with many, many of the top brass likely to face prison once the Swiss and the Americans get through with their examination of all the material seized.
Asked about Russia and Qatar, he made the point that world football is far more important than any one ‘world cup’ competition., i.e. both those already agreed events could be pulled , should be pulled, in the greater interests of the game worldwide.
Compare that pressman’s ‘philosophy of integrity’ to the ‘philosophy of cheating’ supported and endorsed by our media hacks!
And perhaps we can hope that the other ‘Neil William-Dentons'(see normanbatesmumfc 21st December 2015 at 11:16 am) who may have devised wizard tax ‘avoidance’ wheezes at the behest of megalomaniacal football club Chairpersons get their come-uppance.
And said Chairpersons with them!
Incidentally, has anyone got a print copy of the email (copied by CF) sent by Jack on 21.06.11 to ‘Gary’ and ‘Craig’ about DK ? I’ve only got my hastily scrawled version ( printer not working at the time).
I’ve just had a look at the Court Roll for the High Courts early next year and I note that the Fraudco case against the 6/7 is no longer listed for 5th January.
I wonder if the issuance of new indictments against those involved has resulted in a delay to the next preliminary hearing, or whether it is still going ahead without public notification.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/current-business/court-rolls/court-roll?id=33d4faa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
normanbatesmumfc 21st December 2015 at 11:16 am
==================================
As far as I am aware, Peter Baxendale-Walker’s particular method of EBT utilisation has not been tested in court/at tribunal. He has always maintained the legality of his scheme, if operated correctly. If that’s not the case, I’m happy to be corrected.
What has been tested is RFC/SDM/MGH’s hands-on management of his scheme. It has been found wanting…
John Clark 21st December 2015 at 2:17 pm #
Incidentally, has anyone got a print copy of the email (copied by CF) sent by Jack on 21.06.11 to ‘Gary’ and ‘Craig’ about DK ? I’ve only got my hastily scrawled version ( printer not working at the time).
================================
I don’t have a copy of the email, but it is referenced on the Gersnet message board from a Leggo blog in 2013.
See post #79
http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?59487-Dave-King-Statement/page8
The same blog is also referenced on Etims
http://etims.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/leggoland-A-journey-into-the-mind-of-great-journalist.htm
So the FIFA ethics committee banned blatter and platini for a dodgy payment years after the work was apparently done and in the run-up to a re-election for blatter, for whom platini came out in support?
If only Scottish football had such an ethics committee?
If only the SMSM had the cojones to ask why Souness was receiving payments years after leaving the employment of the Gers?
If only.
Has there ever been a better time for honest players in the Scottish game to challenge the unholy forces that have destroyed the integrity of our sport?
Jingso.Jimsie 21st December 2015 at 4:21 pm
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You would really need to look at other tax avoidance schemes which had gone to tribunal and look at the rationale behind the decisions.
For example in the Rangers case, if the Court of Session relied on the fact that side letters existed and were proof of a contractual payment then in so far as that was relevant to other cases so long as people didn’t use them then it would not set precedent. In relation to that part.
However if the CoS did not rely on that, and simply ruled that these payments were clearly emoluments for tax purposes, and that the contrived nature of the transactions was for no other reason than to avoid paying tax then that would be a ruling in relation to any similar case.
So if the pornographer’s scheme (or anyone else’s) is similar in how it operated to the one the CoS ruled on then HMRC can use that in other cases. I suspect that is where the panic is coming from with regards tax advisers / accountants / layers etc. Their clients and/or their employers may end up with huge tax bills.
There seems to be some sort of belief that these schemes are a form of magic and just because a lawyer, accountant or tax adviser dreamed them up then they are carved in stone. Nothing could be further from the truth. These are simply people who try to find ways to circumvent the law and convince others that if they follow the scheme then they can save themselves a lot of money. The thing is HMRC have their own tax experts and employ their own QCs to fight these cases. Saying you relied on advice may prevent you being prosecuted for evasion, it may even mitigate penalties. However if the tax is due then the tax is due, you taking bad advice does not change that.
There are plenty of bankrupt people who have found this out to their cost. No-one made them avoid the tax, it was nothing but their own greed which convinced them to take the chance.
Homunculus 21st December 2015 at 5:08 pm
============================
…therefore, with my Sandy Bryson hat on, even if it’s imperfect, it’s legal until it’s proven not to be
What a wimpish statement from Regan Towers:
@ EasyJambo 5:50
SFA statement
Yes a wimpish statement from which I have removed 4 words in my quote. Could it comeback to rebound on Regan and Co because it is highly ironic
Then again the residents of the Hampden bunker have proved themselves to lack self awareness and the associated brass neck.
easyJambo 21st December 2015 at 5:50 pm # What a wimpish statement from Regan Towers:
STATEMENT | Sepp Blatter & Michel PlatiniMonday, 21 December 2015 The Scottish FA notes the sanctions imposed on Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini by the adjudicatory chamber of FIFA’s independent Ethics Committee. Given that grounds of appeal remain open to both individuals, it would be inappropriate to comment any further than to say today’s decision only reinforces the need for a fundamental change in governance at a global level in order to rebuild the trust and integrity of football.
_______________________________-
Ever careful when not dealing with a ‘Scottish Institution’ or it’s wannabe, the SFA make sure they cover themselves with the phrase, ‘global level’, to ward off having to answer any questions about football governance in general, or, more specifically, the governance, or lack of it, in Scottish football.
‘Trust and integrity of football’, wouldn’t that be nice to have, and not just at that global level? Can someone set the clock on how long it takes one of our esteemed hacks to ask them if they exercised integrity and considered the need for trust when passing a known criminal as being ‘fit and proper’?
In their efforts to preserve this need for trust and integrity, I think we can presume the SFA will be issuing a fuller statement, covering their views of all the charges against Blatter and Plattini, with an insight into how they ensure the ethics of Scottish football, as soon as, or if, the appeals fail!
easyJambo 21st December 2015 at 5:50 pm
What a wimpish statement from Regan Towers…
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Darryl knows what works: bland & anodyne. I wonder if Stewart wasn’t ‘taking calls’ this morning?
There was some interesting discussion on the John Beattie programme on Radio Shortbread at lunchtime about Platini/Blatter. Three pundits (including one Scot) gave their view.First half hour, if anyone’s interested.
The SFA wasn’t mentioned at all, therefore Regan’s support for Platini wasn’t either.
Jingso.Jimsie 21st December 2015 at 5:28 pm
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That’s as good an analogy as any. The adviser tells their client they have a wizard wheeze to pay less money. It’s absolutely fine because no-one has actually said it’s illegal to do it this way. They can’t have because I just made it up recently.
Person pays too little tax.
HMRC say “I think not, have an assessment you owe us money”
Tax(non)payer says “You are wrong, a pornographer / struck off lawyer told me it was fine”.
HMRC say “Fair enough, here’s how you appeal, carry on”.
etc.
For anyone interested, here’s the STV interview of Paul Murray, picked up from PMGB’s site. Well when I say the interview, a very much cut/edited version of it, with no reference, at all, to £5m, a loan they are repaying, Mike Ashley, SD, deposit at a solicitors, or, most notably, a mistake by a QC.
In fact, it’s only worth watching to satisfy yourself that the controversial parts have been cut!
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1336390-shareholders-must-stump-up-to-fund-rangers-january-deals-says-murray/
Allyjambo 21st December 2015 at 9:31 pm #
For anyone interested, here’s the STV interview of Paul Murray, picked up from PMGB’s site. Well when I say the interview, a very much cut/edited version of it, with no reference, at all, to £5m, a loan they are repaying, Mike Ashley, SD, deposit at a solicitors, or, most notably, a mistake by a QC.
In fact, it’s only worth watching to satisfy yourself that the controversial parts have been cut!
=====================================
So given the parts you mention have been cut, I wonder if there will be yet another triumphant announcement soon that the loan is going to be repaid. By my reckoning the media have blasted it from the rooftops three times now. Why not four, or five times, or simply any time a Rangers Director says it has/will be repaid, or the money is in the bank, or it is with a Solicitor.
It can’t be that hard for the media to point out to them how ridiculous this has all been. []
I see that STV (and the Record) are reporting that Football Agent, John Viola, had been declared bankrupt over an unpaid tax bill.
Nothing really surprises me these days about how agents and other senior figures in the game get themselves involved in dodgy tax avoidance/evasion schemes. I wonder who the others are in the investment scheme that involved Viola.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1336849-football-agent-john-viola-declared-bankrupt-over-unpaid-tax-bill/
Allyjambo 21st December 2015 at 9:31 pm #
==============================
The full interview is still there. The abbreviated video is near the top of the article, but the full version is further down the page.
easyJambo 21st December 2015 at 10:23 pm # Allyjambo 21st December 2015 at 9:31 pm # ============================== The full interview is still there. The abbreviated video is near the top of the article, but the full version is further down the page.
____________________
Oops, silly me. Sorry folks for misleading anyone!
easyJambo 21st December 2015 at 10:21 pm
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From a different source, before the hearing.
TOP football agent John Viola has gone bust over a £250,000 tax bill.
Viola, 55, is due to be declared bankrupt by a court on Monday.
The deal-maker, who acted for Rangers idol Barry Ferguson, ploughed cash into a film investment scheme later ruled to be an illegal tax dodge.
His proposals to settle the debt were rejected by HMRC chiefs.
A source said: “John offered them £150,000 in three instalments over nine months but they knocked him back.”
Viola, of Bothwell, Lanarkshire, is among several footie figures hit by the judgment.
He claims the scheme was approved by tax bosses when he first invested a decade ago. He said: “I made a fair offer and I am flabbergasted they have rejected it. I feel let down.”
=================================
So you owed £250,000 and offered to pay £150,000 (in three installments).
No wonder you feel let down, John. You offered to pay 60% of the debt, in instalments over nine months. How dare they reject such a great offer. What with your previous good record on tax.
But wait – “In 2007 he was banned from being a company director for seven years over another £275,000 tax bill.”
You don’t like paying tax, do you John.
Personally I’m not so sure they will try to change rules while the season is still ongoing. However there is history for this. The SPL as was changed their stadium requirement rules to allow Inverness to get into the SPL and PTFC to be relegated.
I add this only to point out there is form for the administrators to do this. In pure footballing terms, Inverness won the lower division and PTFC were awful that season, rightfully being bottom of the division. However the rules were changed mid-season.
Jingso.Jimsie 21st December 2015 at 7:20 pm
‘…there was some interesting discussion on the John Beattie programme on Radio Shortbread at lunchtime about Platini/Blatter. Three pundits (including one Scot) gave their view.First half hour, if anyone’s interested. The SFA wasn’t mentioned at all, therefore Regan’s support for Platini wasn’t either.@
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Well, it was BBC Radio Scotland, after all.
When they do not sack someone like Chick Young for Either utter incompetence and ignorance and lack of ‘journalistic’ research OR for the deliberate misleading of the public as to DK’s criminal status by waffling incoherently in defence of the criminal that he had reached a ‘settlement’ with the SA tax people, you know that little wheels are turning , deep, and very deep, in the bowels of BBC Radio Scotland.
We have never, and we have not now, an impartial BBC Radio Scotland when it comes to articulating what is the plain truth, which is that
one football club massively cheated,
one SFA has simply endorsed that cheating,
and the SMSM has obliged by seconding that endorsement, and using every propaganda technique from the Goebbels guide book to try to persuade the rest of us that the BIG LIE is the truth.
Jeff Zycinsky , Head of Radio Scotland, is facing questions about the ( to me, anyway) less than impartial reporting on the Referendum.
I would wish that there was an equal enquiry into the less than impartial reporting into the whole ‘Rangers’ saga.
The ghost of Peter Thomson has clearly managed ( unlike Tam’s carlin) to cross the stream of the Clyde from Queen Margaret Drive to Pacific Quay!
John Clark 21st December 2015 at 2:17 pm
“Incidentally, has anyone got a print copy of the email (copied by CF) sent by Jack on 21.06.11 to ‘Gary’ and ‘Craig’ about DK ?”
—————————–
See attachment.
redlichtie 19th December 2015 at 9:37 am
“The subject however always reminds me that many of a blue persuasion, clearly with an irony by-pass, cite LNS as ‘legally deciding’ the OC/NC debate…”
—————————-
Sevco became liable for RFC (IL) debts as a result of the five way agreement. Section 2.2 of the agreement (as gleaned from Hirsute Pursuit’s input) states :
“The SFA, Sevco and RFC hereby agree that on Completion Sevco shall, other than with respect to the CW Exempt Acts, become liable and responsible for the purpose of imposition of sanctions by the SFA for any and all acts and/or omissions of RFC and/or Rangers FC,..”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/164650989/5-Way-Agreement-as-Issued-to-All-Parties-for-Signature
Therefore the application of a fine upon Sevco for RFC (IL) misdemeanours does not to me imply a continuation of the same legal entity. There was clearly a discontinuity in the business in the summer of 2012. The link only exists due to the formation of an unprecedented agreement that sits outwith the known rules of Scottish Football’s governing body. It is a very fragile argument upon which to hang the club continuity perspective.
My recollection is that the £250,000 fine was arrested from the proceeds of competition earnings from the 2012 season by the SFA.
The club in question not only decline to play by the rules but they refuse to accept the sanctions levied when their rule breaking is disclosed. Even when such fines are derisory.
An irony bypass indeed.
upthehoops 21st December 2015 at 9:52 pm #
‘…It can’t be that hard for the media to point out to them how ridiculous this has all been. ‘
____
Or even simply to ask whether they might have a wee bank statement or other wee bit of corroboration!
It is this utter unwillingness of the SMSM to ask basic, simple questions that betrays them as fundamentally partisan.
They do not want to ask questions either of a now dead entity that, if you believe important figures in the Scottish body politic, was part of the very fabric of society, or of the pretendy new entity which knows it can rely on them to support the Lie.
These last couple of years or so has revealed the truth about our hacks; suborned by an appeal to their partisan loyalty, or seduced by succulent lamb and fine wine at Auld Nick’s table.
Castofthousands 22nd December 2015 at 12:37 am
‘..See attachment.’
_____
Grateful, CoT.
But I can’t open the attachment.
I shall consult my expert, Mrs C, who went to bed like a sensible woman, about two hours ago, muttering disparaging words about eejits sitting up late.
Or ,( not at our age?),was there possibly a hint of …..? Ach, where is John Thomas when you need him?
Homunculus 21st December 2015 at 5:08 pm #Jingso.Jimsie 21st December 2015 at 4:21 pm=============================
….There seems to be some sort of belief that these schemes are a form of magic and just because a lawyer, accountant or tax adviser dreamed them up then they are carved in stone. Nothing could be further from the truth.
====================================================================
Homunculus…music to my ears…the “tax planning/mitigation” industry have been keeping a particularly low profile of late, and yes, I really do speak from (bitter) experience
essexbeancounter 22nd December 2015 at 6:49 am
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Firstly apologies for going way off topic.
I think it is a true indictment on our society that there is a whole multi-million pound industry based around rich people paying less tax than they are due. To see the scale of it we only have to look at how much was not paid by MIH (including Rangers) and realise just how tiny a part of that industry MIH were.
It has now been ruled in the Court of Session that is tax which was properly due. This was plain and simple “wages” and that everything else was just in place to make the rich richer. It was contrived meaningless transactions with no other purpose than to reduce the tax payable.
As I said, there is a perceived magic in these “schemes” and a further perception that tax avoidance is “perfectly legal”. I think this is because people don’t realise how the schemes come into existence, and what avoidance actually is. It is normally taken as being analogous with “tax management”. That is not the case.
There are examples of good tax management. The most obvious example being investing in an ISA. Those are not only acceptable, they are actively encouraged by the Government to encourage people to save for the future. They provide tax benefits which make people’s savings worth more in real terms. This is a good thing.
The other side of the industry is more or less a group of clever, well educated people who spend their time looking at existing legislation and regulations and try to find ways of using it to help their rich clients pay less tax. Meaning the burden of actually raising the money needed to run the country, pay for a health service, provide education, supply a welfare state etc falls on the rest of us. The mere workers who pay our tax at source or make honest self assessment returns.
Anyone interested in the subject can read what HMRC have to say about it here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/372502/Tempted_by_Tax_Avoidance.pdf
You will see some very familiar themes. For example their description of the “Warning Signs”
Any of the following signposts should make you think twice:
• It sounds too good to be true and cannot have been intended when Parliament made the relevant tax law. For example, some schemes promise to get rid of your tax liability for little or no real cost, and without you having to do much more than pay the promoter and sign some papers
• The tax benefits or returns are out of proportion to any real economic activity, expense or investment risk
• The scheme involves arrangements which seem very complex given what you want to do
• The scheme involves artificial or contrived arrangements
• The scheme involves money going around in a circle back to where it started
• The scheme promoter either provides any funding needed to make the scheme work or arranges for it to be made available by another party
• Offshore companies or trusts are involved for no sound commercial reason
• A tax haven or banking secrecy country is involved
• The scheme contains exit arrangements designed to side-step tax consequences
• There are secrecy or confidentiality agreements
• Upfront fees are payable or the arrangement is on a no win/no fee basis
• The scheme has been allocated a Scheme Reference Number (SRN) by HMRC under the Disclosure of Tax Avoidance Schemes (DOTAS) regime.
‘There are few aspects of life as Gers manager that can be considered normal. The pressure from supporters, the scrutiny from outside observers and the demand for results make it one of the most unique positions in football.
The above quote is from Mr Chris Jack at the Evening Times. The 3 topics he names as making the ‘Gers’ job unique are the SAME 3 topics that makes every football club/team/company around the world the exactly the same IMO.
They say charity begins at home and so does fixing your own mess before you go on about other peoples’. Mote in the eye and all that. So the best thing Reagan et al can surely do is tell us what they are going to do to ensure Scottish Football is honestly and efficiently run.
Bit late to the thread today so I’m just repeating what other folk have said. Will leave this as is though as worth saying again and again.
Homunculus 22nd December 2015 at 9:09 am
…The other side of the industry is more or less a group of clever, well educated people who spend their time looking at existing legislation and regulations and try to find ways of using it to help their rich clients pay less tax…
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Who writes tax legislation? HMRC & its consultants from the big Acronym Accountancy firms, of course.
These consultants can then go back & brief their firms & clients before the planned legislation is even made statute, giving them an advantage.
A rigged game, like so many others.
Castofthousands 22nd December 2015 at 12:37 am #Attachment King-SARS-I3vS2OO.doc
—————————–See attachment.
———————
Sometimes things in this series of pantomimes jump off the page at me.
Like this sentence from your CF attachment.
….. “I have enclosed a diary item from The Sunday Times of South Africa which is a) good all the witnesses appear to be dead.”….
.
I’m sitting here and don’t know what to say or think having read it.
Jingso.Jimsie 22nd December 2015 at 11:05 am #
Who writes tax legislation? HMRC & its consultants from the big Acronym Accountancy firms, of course.
==================================
Actually neither do, the only people who “write tax legislation” or any other sort of legislation is Parliament.
Hence HMRC’s comment “… and cannot have been intended when Parliament made the relevant tax law.”
Legislation is not just about the words on paper, it is also about the intention of the law makers (Parliament) when the legislation was debated and passed. That is why Hansard records are so important. They record what was actually said during debates and form an integral part in determining what was intended when the law was being made.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/
As I said before, clever well educated people try to twist the meaning and intention of tax law and regulations. It is HMRC’s job to uphold what was intended by Parliament when the law was made, and as interpreted by HMRC themselves.
Sorry again, this is getting way too far off topic.
I see that Darren Jackson has now been declared bankrupt with tax debts of £270,000. It seems that he invested in the same “tax avoidance” scheme as Viola and others, Eclipse Film Partners.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/former-celtic-scotland-striker-darren-7055968
Guess who represented Eclipse in their unsuccessful appeal against a Tax Tribunal decision? It was one Jolyon Maugham, who not surprisingly was prominent in voicing his concerns about the CoS EBT decision, and was invited onto Sportsound to put his point across.
I have no sympathy for anyone caught up in these schemes.
EJ, An interesting list of Dodgers or Directors as they like to be called, there are a few names I recognise both Celtic & Rangers players Barry Ferguson (you really think he would have learned) Gordon Durie, Derek Whyte, I wonder if other contributors can identify the names?
http://www.endole.co.uk/company/OC316490/eclipse-film-partners-no-9-llp?page=people
Equally though I would posit (thanks again JJ) that it is the club’s own inability to cope with the former and not being able to deal with what they consider to be shown up (or what we diddies refer to as beaten/gubbed) in respect to the latter two that does particularly differentiate that club, both old and, disappointingly, new, certainly in Scotland.
gwared 22nd December 2015 at 1:20 pm #
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From that list I also recognise Billy McKinlay, Paddy Connolly, Michael O’Neill and Curtis Fleming from the footballing fraternity.
There are umpteen other Eclipse Film Partners companies (a bit like Ticketus). I know that Sven Goran Ericsson was in another co.
easyJambo 22nd December 2015 at 12:22 pm
As an aside I noted the news of Jackson’s bankruptcy elsewhere with the ‘former Celtic player’ tag.
FFS can the MSM we get away from this sh*te and having to link anybody and everybody in the Scottish game to Celtic or Rangers/T’Rangers.
Jackson only played 29 games for the Hoops, scoring 3 goals
Other than his loan to Coventry and the tail end of his career beng small beer, Celtic represented circa 6% of his appearances, albeit he won a SPL and League Cup medal.
He also got 28 Scotland Caps and scored 4 goals, so why not refer to him as a former Scotland striker.
Test
Among the directors, past and present, of Eclipse Film Partners #1 LLP, I found the following people: Gary Bollan, Russell Latapy, Alan Main, Chris Sutton, Jorg Albertz, Callum Davidson, Brian Gunn, Stan Lazaridis and Craig Moore.
Some are clearly serial tax avoiders.
wottpi 22nd December 2015 at 1:55 pm # easyJambo 22nd December 2015 at 12:22 pm
As an aside I noted the news of Jackson’s bankruptcy elsewhere with the ‘former Celtic player’ tag.
FFS can the MSM we get away from this sh*te and having to link anybody and everybody in the Scottish game to Celtic or Rangers/T’Rangers.
Jackson only played 29 games for the Hoops, scoring 3 goals
1985–1986 Meadowbank Thistle 48 (22)1986–1988 Newcastle United 69 (7)1988–1992 Dundee United 87 (30)1992–1997 Hibernian 170 (50)1997–1999 Celtic 29 (3)1998–1999 → Coventry City (loan) 3 (0)1999–2001 Heart of Midlothian 56 (7)2001 → Livingston (loan) 9 (1)2001–2002 St. Johnstone 9 (1)2002 → Clydebank (loan) 13 (2)Other than his loan to Coventry and the tail end of his career beng small beer, Celtic represented circa 6% of his appearances, albeit he won a SPL and League Cup medal.
He also got 28 Scotland Caps and scored 4 goals, so why not refer to him as a former Scotland striker.
______________________________________
The thing about these tax dodges involving footballers is they have nothing to do with the clubs (although the players’ own agents might have ‘recommended’ they speak to a friend), so with that in mind, the SMSM have to link them in some way to a club, other than TRFC/RFC, and what better club than Celtic? You can be sure that in some workplace or pub, a number of RFC/TRFC supporters will be turning to their mates and saying, ‘see, Celtic were at it, too’. In some cases they will be corrected, and though the overall effect will be small, it’s just another brick in the wall of whataboutery, to make EBTs and mis-registration appear just one of the things that goes on.
On agents, and players’ dodgy deals. I wonder if this is the kind of thing McMurdo was trying to throw into the mix. Like so many squirrels since the scandal began, something is reported in the media, and then something related in some way comes out a day or so later. I wonder how long it will be until a report informs us that it is the players, alone, who are responsible for entering these tax avoidance schemes, unlike in the case of EBTs.
I am no PR expert, but I should imagine that this kind of ‘layering’ of squirrels is the stock-in-trade of the more devious members of that unscrupulous profession!
Still on agents; the SMSM have been very quiet on the rather controversial, indeed, quite inflammatory things McMurdo said the other day. I thought the newspaper/media industry was built on controversy and inflammatory quotes and hunting down of stories! Wasn’t there a time when newspapers would be chasing someone who’d said what McMurdo was reported as saying, and drawing inferences from what he says, or what he doesn’t say, to dig away until the truth comes out? Or are they just too busy thinking up the latest scoop on how great Mark Warburton is to chase a real story?
Allyjambo 22nd December 2015 at 2:38 pm
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Exactly the point AJ.
Someone who has earned money, who then chooses to “invest” that money in a scheme which will afford them tax benefits is entirely different to an employer who decides to use an inappropriate scheme to make contractual payments to employees in such a way as they will all avoid paying the right amount of tax.
The one is a choice made by a private individual, presumably on the advice of his own advisers. The only link is that he may have earned some of the money he “invests” from a specific employer or employers.
The latter is systematic avoidance entered into by an employer with the agreement of it’s employees.
It’s comparing apples and oranges.
However as you suggest, it’s just a rather pathetic attempt at whataboutery, in the hope that most people will just take the term “tax avoidance” add it to a players name and then tangentially link that avoidance through the player to the club.
It’s as obvious as it is pathetic.
Homunculus 22nd December 2015 at 12:02 pm #Jingso.Jimsie 22nd December 2015 at 11:05 am #
Who writes tax legislation? HMRC & its consultants from the big Acronym Accountancy firms, of course.==================================
Actually neither do, the only people who “write tax legislation” or any other sort of legislation is Parliament.
————————————————————–
Agreed. A better form of words would have been ‘writes draft tax legislation’.
Was it ever definitively said by HMRC that they would not go after the RFC(IL) EBT shysters for the tax they personally didn’t pay? And if so, on what legal basis would they have been able to say that?
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/22/the-real-narrative/
make of it what you will
tony 22nd December 2015 at 4:35 pm #(johnjames blog) make of it what you will
==============================
I’d just finished reading it when I saw your comment.
Whilst I find his comments interesting, as someone else recently said I don’t know if he is speaking as an informed person or purely espousing his own strongly held views. I also have trouble following his figures at times.
Whatever, I worry that his at times sweeping statements might come back to bite him on his posit-erior.
Mr James to me looks to be on very thin ice regarding prejudicial comments on an upcoming trial. Or is that what they are designed to do?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.