Two wrongs and a right

ByBig Pink

Two wrongs and a right

The John James blog has of late thrown up many hooks to hang our theories on and provided much food for thought on the Rangers issue.

His casual invective against individuals, particularly Dave King, and often members of the Bench is not particularly SFM-like in its approach, but despite the industrial nature of much of the discourse, the value of his work cannot be denied.

On the subject of revisiting LNS, I find myself in agreement with his conclusions. His argument about Celtic’s attitude to Resolution 12 is to my mind compelling insofar as it serves as a barometer for Celtic’s disposition towards rocking the SPL/SFA boat. Like him, I cannot see any real evidence, (despite the recent statement by the club) that they are disposed to move in the direction of a revisited LNS (although it should be noted that besides Celtic there are another 40 clubs who may have an opinion on this).

His conclusions though should not be confused with his opinion on the rights and wrongs of LNS. Like most of us, he appears to be of the opinion that LNS was seriously flawed on multiple counts.

I saw Bill McMurdo’s remarks too in reference to the same topic. He alleges that the whole SFA house of cards would come down if information he has at his fingertips, information that off-book payments in Scottish football was much more widespread that the RFC EBTs, was made public.

UnderTableIf what he says is true, and he has evidence, he should be expanding on the innuendo.

If he chooses not to, then he is as complicit as those he accuses.

In any event, to say that no action should be taken because others have done it is not the same as saying that no action WILL be taken.

If he means the former, then he is wrong. By the logic of that argument it follows that burglars for example should not be prosecuted because other people burgle houses but didn’t get caught.

I suspect he knows himself that by any objective standard, this view is in error, because when he is called out on it, he reverts to ad hominem attacks on those who called him on it. No defence, just withering, dismissive sarcasm – in the manner of former pundit Jim Traynor when he refers to those who speak of sporting integrity.

If he means the latter, then he should do what he can do prevent it and make his information public. I believe he knows that the £3 note fraternity runs through Scottish football like lettering on a stick of seaside rock, but I suspect he doesn’t actually have evidence.

If there is evidence, then McMurdo is in a unique position to get it out in the open and make life difficult for those he alleges are corrupt.

Then we should go back in time as far as possible to investigate those who participated in “black money” schemes, whether they are EBTs, other forms of tax dodge, or just money in a brown paper bag.

I do not believe that any of us participating in the Scottish Football Monitor would fear exposure of any of our clubs. I think we all know that this is far more important than club loyalties.

If McMurdo’s information is correct, then we also have the opportunity to show that the clamour for revisiting LNS is not an anti-Rangers with-hunt. Instead of reconvening LNS, let’s have Bill’s info, and constitute a wider enquiry. If the info was made public, and it will now be difficult for him to put his genie back into the bottle, could the SFA and the clubs resist the pressure for such an enquiry?

handsMaybe McMurdo’s intervention/revelation may yet be seen as a seminal moment in the campaign to rid ourselves of corruption and incompetence in football.

Our position has always been clear. Corruption is counter to sporting integrity. Therefore it must be rooted out.

John James and Merlin are probably correct in that the clubs will seek to thwart any move for a new enquiry; and there could easily have been a deal done with King last week.

However there was also a deal done with Charles Green about the new club being parachuted into the SPL. How did that one turn out?

About the author

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

1,703 Comments so far

jimboPosted on3:22 am - Dec 26, 2015


John Clark, get back on here we know they have internet connections in America.  I’m beginning to forget what this site is all about.  Something to do with Rangers, The SFA & SPFL the Media.  could you remind me please?  (Merry Christmas)

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weejoePosted on12:11 pm - Dec 26, 2015


No comments section?

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weejoePosted on12:13 pm - Dec 26, 2015


Just returned?

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tamjartmarquezPosted on2:14 pm - Dec 26, 2015


Spiers latest in the times today
“On paper, it is the game of the season so far in Scottish football”, which of today’s games?, or possibly tomorrows match at Tynecastle?
Dont be silly, its the countdown to the latest leg on the journey, only 2 more sleeps until the big game, that is, er more than a game. Apparently “there is a dark edge to this fixture-political and emotional-which makes it appealing” ….what can Spiers be alluding to politically?
Festive greetings to all.

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tamjartmarquezPosted on2:37 pm - Dec 26, 2015


oh hang on missed this bit “both of these big clubs are sorely missed in the top flight”
that’ll be the political dark edge18

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yourhavingalaughPosted on3:08 pm - Dec 26, 2015


The Times
Indeed,another once quality newspaper ,now in free fall ,have the editors of these papers given up on what they are paid to do,has Speirs been forced upon them,to have the ramblings of a once believable reporter but now an embarrassing desperado hiding behind who ever’s apron he can and come out with the guff he has done today,the top game in Scotland??,non negotiable ,the readers are being told this is so,well if I was a supporter of any club in the premier I would not be buying this comic again,or maybe it is the top game in a more sinister world ,do tell Mr Speirs,what do you know but are not fully explaining,what lies ahead if things don’t go the chosen clubs way,are we about to see another World War Z in 2016,please do tell.

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easyJamboPosted on3:19 pm - Dec 26, 2015


weejoe 26th December 2015 at 12:11 pm #
No comments section?
=========================
I’ve had that problem before (including today) and I don’t know what causes it.  You can get round it if you click on one of the “recent comments” on the right side of the screen. 

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weejoePosted on4:17 pm - Dec 26, 2015


Thanks EJ. I didn’t think of that but decided to try a post to see what happened. Looking OK now.

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ianagainPosted on5:09 pm - Dec 26, 2015


Another day of Armageddon and no game going the way of the pundits.
Teed off to find our game was off but listened in to
Aberdeen 2-2 Inverness CT
Hamilton 0-1 Kilmarnock
Ross County 5-2 Dundee
Another week of surprises.
Another week proving Doncaster wrong.

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The Cat NR1Posted on5:23 pm - Dec 26, 2015


tamjartmarquez 26th December 2015 at 2:37 pm #oh hang on missed this bit “both of these big clubs are sorely missed in the top flight” that’ll be the political dark edge
=========================
I certainly miss one of them, but it’s their fault that they are where they are, and I’ll welcome them back when they get promoted through legitimate sporting means.

The other one has never, as far as my memory goes (and 2012 is not that far back to remember) been in the top division, and it’s fair to say that I’ll be more than happy for that to continue until they can show that they would respect the rules of the competion and their fellow competititors.

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The Cat NR1Posted on5:51 pm - Dec 26, 2015


Some have questioned the wording of the statement announcing the repayment of the SD loan by TRFC Ltd. I don’t think that there’s anything in it other than some slightly vague language.
However, I’m more concerned about the way that the repayment has been reported in headlines elsewhere.
The national broadcaster, funded by us license fee payers, has a headline “Rangers pay back £5M loan from Mike Ashley” http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35177571
Is that the Level 5 personalising and oversimplifying approach? Turning it into a strict MA issue as a tit for tat for MA turning his sights on DK?
Surely, we should be getting more accurate headlines. MA did loan some money through MASH to keep the sinking business going, and that was repaid when a larger loan was required agin to prevent the business calling in the administrators. The SD loan had serious ramifications for business cashflow with it’s changing of the RR holdings, whereas the MASH loan was a straightforward Wonga deal (other legal loan sharks are available).
Why not say Sports Direct instead of Ashley?
What has happened since the announcement of the intent to repay was reported on November? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34942312

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jean7brodiePosted on6:16 pm - Dec 26, 2015


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/26/the-flat-earth-society/

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ianagainPosted on6:17 pm - Dec 26, 2015


So 5 million sent.
With what conditions?
Acceptable, doubt it.
Lets just see.
No court cases cancelled.
So once the banks re open?

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ianagainPosted on6:38 pm - Dec 26, 2015


jean7brodie 26th December 2015 at 6:16 pm # https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/26/the-flat-earth-society/
 Good spot Jean

Lads this is worth response and an invite.

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ianagainPosted on7:02 pm - Dec 26, 2015


and lassies20

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Big PinkPosted on7:09 pm - Dec 26, 2015


ianagain,

I think JJ is confusing SFM with Scotzine.

Ninjaman (I believe) did a blog piece for them for which he was broadly criticised by Rangers fans.

We would be happy to have him do a blog piece for us but he has never offered, nor been asked to do so.

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easyJamboPosted on7:36 pm - Dec 26, 2015


ianagain 26th December 2015 at 6:38 pm #
jean7brodie 26th December 2015 at 6:16 pm #
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/12/26/the-flat-earth-society/  Good spot Jean
Lads this is worth response and an invite.
======================
If JJ had access to a copy of the Share Purchase Agreement (as originally aired on RTC), then he would know that the “tax liability” associated with the DOS Scheme was specifically referenced at pages 8 (see attachment) and 14. It was also referenced in a letter from Whyte’s solicitors to RFC PLC dated 6 May 2011, so Whyte and/or his people were aware of what he was taking on.

JJ also needs to correct the dates in this passage “HMRC proposed that MIH settle the matter in regard to the RFC operation of DOS by May 2012. On 6th May 2012, SDM sold his equity to Craig Whyte and washed his hands of the matter”, both of which should read 2011.  

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scottcPosted on8:00 pm - Dec 26, 2015


easyJambo 26th December 2015 at 7:36 pm #Attachment
If JJ had access to a copy of the Share Purchase Agreement (as originally aired on RTC), then he would know that the “tax liability” associated with the DOS Scheme was specifically referenced at pages 8 (see attachment) and 14. It was also referenced in a letter from Whyte’s solicitors to RFC PLC dated 6 May 2011, so Whyte and/or his people were aware of what he was taking on.

If I am not mistaken,the orginal sale price to be paid by CW was greater than the £1 that he eventually paid. The reason for the reduction was that his solicitors uncovered the outstanding DOS tax liability which DM had been ‘obscuring’. There is a document somewhere detailing that information. As I recall CW was not overly happy at the attempted ‘duping’.

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ianagainPosted on8:02 pm - Dec 26, 2015


As ever the devil is in the detail.

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goosygoosyPosted on12:10 am - Dec 27, 2015


ianagain 26th December 2015 at 6:17 pm #
So 5 million sent. With what conditions? Acceptable, doubt it. Lets just see. No court cases cancelled. So once the banks re open?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I`m no lawyer but
IMO
If you want to gain the moral high ground in a press release
Then
The wording has to be clear and specific where it matters
You say something like
The TRFC contract with SD provides an initial drawdown loan of £5m with the option of an additional drawdown of £5m by mutual agreement. In exchange SD receive specific securities and an increased share of RR profits for the duration of the loan period
The contract contains significant clauses including the immediate repayment by TRFC of a pre-existing MASH loan of £3m.  
The contract also includes confidential commitments by either side which breach the contract if they are broken. Consequential actions triggered by a breach of contract by either side are also detailed in the contract
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
You then say
RIFC and SD have concluded an agreement under which the contract will be terminated. All actions resulting from terminating the contract have been agreed.
On 31 Dec 2015 the loan drawdown facility will cease. All outstanding money due by RIFC to SD will be paid and securities returned by SD to RIFC
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Anything less than the above is a deliberate attempt to mislead the reader.
Which is exactly what the RIFC press release has done
It implies there is an agreement but avoids saying there is an agreement
Conclusion
IMO
There is deadlock over some new conditions RIFC have attached to their repayment proposal.
Alternatively they have refused to comply with some terminaton condtions in the contract
Either way
This press release is PR spin. Its aim is to get the Ashley camp to declare there is no agreement and force them to up the ante.
Possibly by threatening to put RIFC (or TRFC) into Administration/Liquidation
In that event RIFC would go public with a one sided version of the negotiations which at the very least avoids them having to repay the SD loan
They may even dream up an argument that justifies a prepack Admin

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bfbpuzzledPosted on10:22 am - Dec 27, 2015


The amount of the facility = £5,000,0000 the amount owed in terms of the contract might very well be more than that , all kinds of things might also be owed which might include penalties or other additional payment due under the contract – arrangement fees, drawdown fees, administration fees fees which are surrogates for interest fees for administering the RRL arrangements-  all of these and many more might be outstanding even before any penalties for breaches. Weasel words leave more questions than answers…

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neepheidPosted on10:22 am - Dec 27, 2015


Interesting that the TRFC statement says that “payment has been sent”. If the terms of the loan agreement have not been fully complied with, then I guess that the payment could well be returned in very short order.
The statement was issued at 14.15 on Christmas Eve, so realistically, the earliest response from SD would be next Tuesday, since tomorrow is a Bank Holiday. SD will surely want to check what payment arrives before commenting. So the statement will have bought the Ibrox board 5 days respite from bad news, if the SD response is likely to contain bad news, which I strongly suspect it is. I don’t think for a minute that the timing of the statement, or its lack of detail, is accidental.
I expect fireworks next week, and not just for the New Year celebrations. Maybe the hope is that bad news will be easily buried at this time of year? The whole thing stinks of PR manipulation to me.

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yourhavingalaughPosted on10:49 am - Dec 27, 2015


Did they have to issue a statement ,who would be the intended audience of any statement ,a loan is a loan you pay back according to the agreement taken at the start of the loan,who has put their name/s to this statement ,it has surely got to be one or more of the board,I would hope that who ever has put their non de plume on the repayment paperwork has taken the best legal advice they can get as this will get the tanks rolling into Govan if it goes pear shaped,interesting week ahead.

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Methilhill StrollerPosted on12:02 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Anyone issuing press releases or tender adverts on weekend or public holidays has something to hide. The odour of level 5 stinks. As has been said if you are clear you have repaid and cleared debts and any securities then either just do it (no need to advertise) or be transparent 100%.
Afraid that the Sevco board have not been transparent despite statements to the contrary. Looking forward to yet more twists and turns to this saga in the days, weeks and months to come.
Somewhere along the line the dirt will come out of the wash and then watch the administer tors run for cover. Regan and Doncaster (and Ogilvie) must surely be worried about what 2016 might bring.
It’s a hard life. 

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HomunculusPosted on1:36 pm - Dec 27, 2015


I’m afraid that, once again, John James makes just to may basic mistakes for his blog to be taken seriously.

Some of his stuff is quite good but some of it is clearly unsubstantiated speculation and some is either misleading out simply wrong.

I get the impression that he feels he has to post, even if he doesn’t really have anything new to add.

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The Ungrateful DeadPosted on1:40 pm - Dec 27, 2015


So the £5m has been “sent”. RIFC who have been living “hand to mouth” most of their short life have managed to scrape up the money to pay SD a loan that a few short months ago “didn’t have to be repaid”? This reeks of desperation to me. Even if SD accept the repayment, it will have little effect on the retail deal but CRUCIALLY will return the IP. It would be very important, would it not, to have control of the IP after an Insolvency Event?

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yourhavingalaughPosted on4:14 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Just watched the Hears v Celtic match,good viewing for a neutral ,a bit of Pantomime ,a bit of stupidity but most of all a bit of poor management from one side,there is only one side that should be happy with the result today,a long way to go but as blogged earlier ,Mr Speirs,what will was your take on the match of the weekend.

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HomunculusPosted on4:19 pm - Dec 27, 2015


The Ungrateful Dead 27th December 2015 at 1:40 pm
==================================

The total about face is very noticeable.

Mike Ashley called an EGM in which the resolution was that Rangers should pay back the loan.

The PLC board had to have the meeting but stated that they would not have to repay it even if the resolution was passed. It would be a choice for the board.

After the EGM the board stated that they did not have to pay the money back and would only do so when it suited the club. It was in effect a long term interest free loan.

Then at the AGM and totally out of the blue King announced that they had a rush board meeting, decided to repay the money and raised it that very morning. To a standing ovation no less, from the people who supported not giving Mike Ashley the {insert gratuitous pejorative here} his money back.

When forced into it via a Court case they admitted not to have actually raised the money yet, being 10% short. This was some time after it had been raised in an hour, on the morning of the AGM.

They have now announced that the money has been paid to SD. The securities are still outstanding but that could be because of the holiday period.

There is no doubt in my mind that they have been forced into doing this. Whether that is because they are in breach of the conditions, or whether they need the securities released immediately is not clear just now. It could even be King’s visit to the SFA, though how or why they would force him into doing it escapes me.

However whatever the reason I think it is clear they have been forced into doing this. A business struggling to make enough just to see out the financial year and to keep trading does not repay a £5m loan, something like 25% of it’s total turnover, in a lump sum, unless it really has to.

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HomunculusPosted on4:42 pm - Dec 27, 2015


I think John James is at it again.

“Ashley knows that as soon as King gets his hands on the brands and crests, he could set up a rival operation during the seven year notice period. Edmiston House could well be the new retail outlet for official merchandise and online sales. I would be inordinately surprised if the £5m raised will not be underpinned by the prospect of a new retail set-up.”

As I understand it Rangers Retail Ltd hold the licence to produce and sell official Rangers merchandise. If that is the case then who actually holds the IP is largely irrelevant. Whoever holds the licence to produce the goods is the only entity which can legally produce them. If anyone else does it they will be sued.

Unless I am missing something.

From the Prospectus.

12.1.3 Sports Direct joint venture

On 31 July 2012 RFCL entered into a joint venture shareholders’ agreement (the “Rangers Retail SHA”) with SDI Retail Services Limited (“SDI”) relating to terms under which the joint venture vehicle Rangers Retail Limited (“Rangers Retail”) would operate with RFCL holding 51 per cent. of Rangers Retail. Through Rangers Retail the parties agree to run jointly the production, supply and sale of branded products and carry out retail activity at the Club’s superstore at Ibrox and on the Club’s online webstore.

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yourhavingalaughPosted on4:42 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Homunculus
Transparency,as promised,total transparency ,only difference being there are different views on the meaning of this word,well,some individuals meaning of this,I hope I am clear enough on this.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on4:44 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Would it be possible for SD to decline to accept the £5m for whatever reason(s) but have it ring-fenced by the courts until a settlement is reached ?

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HomunculusPosted on6:42 pm - Dec 27, 2015


yourhavingalaugh 27th December 2015 at 4:42 pm
==================================

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/in-full-dave-king-s-statement-on-rangers-1-3325700

That the current problems can be attributed to previous management (presumably Charles Green etc). That does not explain the ongoing lack of transparency on shareholding and finances by the existing board. It is quite possible that Charles Green is still de facto controlling the club.

They ask for trust but don’t recognise that trust is a mutual relationship and requires transparency.

The board states that it believes in professionalism, integrity and honour but conspicuously excludes any belief in transparency. It is time that the board adopted transparency as a value.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2981954/Rangers-Q-Dave-King-reveals-money-come-new-chairman-turn-Ibrox-around.html

‘Definitely. I just felt the whole fit and proper issue has been raised with me continually and if I am going to take the club forward with a level of governance and transparency, then it has to start with me.

‘We offer transparency and accountability, and at least give fans a road forward. It might be tough, it might be long, but we know where we are going.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11788/9745297/dave-king-promises-to-be-completely-open-with-rangers-fans-once-he-assumes-control

“It will be a long road but as long as we travel that road together I guarantee the fans absolute transparency and accountability and if there is one thing that has been missing in Rangers over the past couple of years it is not just the ethos and the level of respect, but accountability and transparency, which has been completely absent.

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yakutsukiPosted on6:43 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Watched a good game today, a bit deflated at the end though with the late equaliser. A stupid kick from Forrest and a great strike from Sow.

  I thought it was fiercely contested by both teams, and a hard one to ref.

Being deflated was ok, it was only for a while anyway. I’m quite lucky really as I try to be positive in general –
about life, about football, about my team.

 Tonight I feel depressed reading some of the nonsense from moaning Celtic fans online. You know, the ones
that are faithful through and through, don’t care if they win, lose or draw? Yes, them.

 I don’t feel like I’ve much in common with these ‘fans’ any more. So fickle! Go and watch some of the smaller teams in the country and see what they get served up!

 I’m afraid there’s been very disproportionate negative reporting in the gutter media in Scotland about a
manager that’s alledgedly doing terrible just now as he has no magic hat… no, not one, and he never shall have one! I’m afraid these ‘fans’ are falling for it hook, line and sinker -again!

  A big well done to Hearts and Aberdeen this year. So far we have real competition on a level playing field.
Bring it on!

  With most teams doing much better on and off the park in recent years, it seems that  the predicted ‘Armageddon’ was a bogey man. Except at Parkheid of course!!!

 It’s hard to build a side when the best players are getting snapped up by the mega rich down South every year.
  I don’t expect any sympathy from any other Scottish fans on this as we’ve done it to them for a h*nred years or so. That’s the way it is and I wouldn’t wish to return to the reckless spending of a few years back-no way!
 Sorry if this post seems a bit Celtic centric, I just see media manipulation paying off here, they are masters of the dark arts, working away insidiously. It’s just very sad to see them winning, that’s all.

 If any other team in Scotland were in our position and the fans were whining, they would be told to get real, and
quite right too. Oh, I forgot, most fans of other Scottish clubs don’t have a superiority complex and think they have a divine right to trophies – fair play to them.

 Who’d be a manager, eh? It’s either all sugar or all $41te, no in between for the demanding, new age cyber fan.
They can lose their job due to bad ref decisions, the width of a post, crucial players injured, bad luck, fans with an inflated sense of entitlement ( That one can lose clumpanies too!) Combinations of factors will prove fatal.

 In a h+ndred years from now, fans may look back at this period and observe that a clubs fans were calling for the bosses head whilst top of the league ( Which must make diddy fans seem way down the food chain and so insignificant) they re bound to shake their heads in disbelief – I know I am.

Sorry for the longest post I have ever written, I’m just so fed up with those ‘fans’ and their entitlement syndrome.

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jimboPosted on7:38 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Yakutsuki,  It might sound a bit hypocritical of me to say this but if I were a player or a manager I wouldn’t go near social media until I retired.  Could knock your confidence for 6 when going through a bad spell.  Besides we all know the problems they can cause for themselves when on line.

There is a really good up and coming actor – Colin Morgan – who doesn’t have a twitter or facebook account.  No official fan club, nothing, despite being very popular.  He said you only need to go on it once to realise the damage it can do.

Obviously that is not to say there isn’t a place for social media.  I love reading this site for instance but IMO the target audience here is Directors, the ‘Authorities’ the ‘Media’ and fans/supporters even the judiciary if they care to dip in. To inform and ask questions of how the game is run in Scotland, not to knock the stuffing out of managers & players.  But I know what you mean from other sites, it can get very sad.  Expectations eh?

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Cluster OnePosted on7:54 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Just read the BIG Interview with Stewart Robertson the managing director at ibrox in today’s sunday papers.
Or should i say just read the great BIG puff piece in todays sunday paper.
It had everything.
Boyhood fan.
watched them from the 1970’s.
Soon as he was old enough to get on the fan buses, he was there.
etc.etc

Then the name dropping.
—————————
Souness.
Walter.
Paul Murray.
John Greig.
Terry Butcher.
Stuart McCall.

Then came the
——————
The sheer size of the club.
The great staff.
The wonderful fans.

followed by
—————
HOW great Mark Warburton is, and he gets him out of bed now,no need for an alarm clock.
The January war chest will be opened.
How he want’s MW to stay for a decade.
Their voices will be heard if they reach the top flight.
The promise to rebuild scottish football.
Yes this big puff piece had everything.
So can’t wait until next week when the managing director of Partick Thistle is given the same big page spread.
But why a managing director of any club is given a BIG interview, who knows20
It all began to sound a bit Craig Mather

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upthehoopsPosted on9:04 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Cluster One 27th December 2015 at 7:54 pm #Just read the BIG Interview with Stewart Robertson the managing director at ibrox in today’s sunday papers.
==============================

The position that Robertson is in means he is now deferred to by the media more than any other in the same position at any other Scottish club. I find it quite depressing that we have so many other people involved in the game in Scotland who are never given the chance to push at an open door in this way. Rangers directors speak and they are believed without question. Is it really the case they are automatically regarded by the media as better people than others, because that’s how it seems to me. I know nothing about Stewart Robertson but he is the Managing Director of a complete financial mess of a football club with ever increasing debt and no signs at all of even attempting to live within its means. What does ANY football club have to learn from this guy? No wonder I no longer buy newspapers. 

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goosygoosyPosted on9:50 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Homunculus 27th December 2015 at 4:42 pm #
 As I understand it Rangers Retail Ltd hold the licence to produce and sell official Rangers merchandise. If that is the case then who actually holds the IP is largely irrelevant. Whoever holds the licence to produce the goods is the only entity which can legally produce them. If anyone else does it they will be sued.
Unless I am missing something.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Perhaps the owner of the IP has the rights to place a cease and desist order on TRFC using the name “Rangers” in their dealings with other football clubs and governing bodies
And
Maybe even the “right” to stop TRFC “claiming” the heritage of RFC
That would be very bad for business and possibly very costly to challenge in  court

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tonyPosted on10:28 pm - Dec 27, 2015


upthehoops 
Is it really the case they are automatically regarded by the media as better people than others,
yes mate,welcome to the we are the people club

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The Cat NR1Posted on10:44 pm - Dec 27, 2015


tony 27th December 2015 at 10:28 pm #upthehoops  Is it really the case they are automatically regarded by the media as better people than others, yes mate,welcome to the we are the people club
=================
The Frost Report
I know my place….

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tonyPosted on10:56 pm - Dec 27, 2015


The Cat NR1
we all do mate,sometimes we have to challenge the perception of where that place actually is

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The Cat NR1Posted on10:58 pm - Dec 27, 2015


upthehoops 27th December 2015 at 9:04 pm #Cluster One 27th December 2015 at 7:54 pm #Just read the BIG Interview with Stewart Robertson the managing director at ibrox in today’s sunday papers. ==============================
<CUT>I know nothing about Stewart Robertson but he is the Managing Director of a complete financial mess of a football club with ever increasing debt and no signs at all of even attempting to live within its means.<CUT>
========
Mr Robertson is no doubt speaking as MD of the ethereal club, whereas the other separate debt ridden company thingy is an irrelevance to both him and the MSM. If Rangers can die and be resurrected once, why not again and again? The MSM will lap up such nonsense from the MD of Third Rangers, Rangers Quatro, Five Star Gers right up to Infinity Ibrox AllStars as that is their raison d’etre. However, if the MSM ceases to exist in its current form, then the bullshit will simply wash down the gutter into the sewer.

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The Cat NR1Posted on11:32 pm - Dec 27, 2015


tony 27th December 2015 at 10:56 pm #The Cat NR1 we all do mate,sometimes we have to challenge the perception of where that place actually is
=============
Indeed.
Curled up on the rug by the fire is where my nom de plume loves to be.
If only life were that simple for the rest of us.

.
If someone tells me that they’re important, they obviously aren’t as important as they think that they are. Important people don’t need to tell you, as you are already aware of the fact and they know that you know.

.
Sevco are that person. My cat knows. I know. 02

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melbournedeePosted on11:43 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Homunculus  27th December 2015 at 4:42 pm #I think John James is at it again.
——————————————————-
JJ does bring up some interesting discussions from time to time, but a lot of his posts are repetitive personal invective against Dave King.

His latest post again goes over the background of King’s MICROmega Holdings company is South Africa. JJ states that the company is listed in the JSE under the MMI ticker code. However, MICROmega’s ticker code is MMG and MMI is the code for a large insurance company.

If you are going to make posts that purport to be authoratative on the subject matter, you need to get the facts rights and not taint unrelated parties.

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The Cat NR1Posted on11:56 pm - Dec 27, 2015


Homunculus 27th December 2015 at 6:42 pm #yourhavingalaugh 27th December 2015 at 4:42 pm ==================================
<SNIPPED>
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11788/9745297/dave-king-promises-to-be-completely-open-with-rangers-fans-once-he-assumes-control
“It will be a long road but as long as we travel that road together I guarantee the fans absolute transparency and accountability and if there is one thing that has been missing in Rangers over the past couple of years it is not just the ethos and the level of respect, but accountability and transparency, which has been completely absent.
===============================
So is that “long road” a completely new road or still forming part of “The Journey”? Has “The Journey” now terminated and been replaced by a new transparent and accountable “Long Road”?
When will the travelogue be appearing on the internet?
There may be trouble ahead, but while there’s music and moonlight and love and romance…02
.
There seems to be a lot of travel metaphors, but very little actual movement.

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StevieBCPosted on12:00 am - Dec 28, 2015


Will be interesting to see how the TRFC manager earns his crust tomorrow.

Will the strategy be: avoid defeat at all costs, so park the Hamilton’s bus – even at home?
Whilst the off field problems accumulate, focus on keeping the on field story going in a ‘positive’ direction?

Worst case: go for the win to please the bears but suffer a heavy home defeat instead.
What can you do to boost morale?
You ain’t getting any new players.  You might actually have to lose players to help cashflow.

Level42 can generate lots of nonsense PR to misdirect off field.
But the bears are not that easily fooled about the quality of their team…and are not exactly renowned for their patience or understanding…

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DonegaltimPosted on2:09 am - Dec 28, 2015


Dave King is a rogue, shyster and manipulator of the gullible who I’m sure would no doubt, back Attilla (no pun intended) if he promised them cash for their new club. JJs site has lost its clout with what seems, dare I say it, a singular attempt to keep smearing Dave King and a heavy moderation in its posts. It started with the promise of being akin to the wonderful site of Random Thoughts but has tailed away to sound petty and vindictive like a spoiled child who isn’t achieving the objective.
The world knows, apart from the gullible support, that King is no use. This is old hat. Phil’s site gives info like the £5m is now more like £6.5m and up until he wrote, hadn’t been paid back, no matter what the red tops were proclaiming. Jabba, with his six month journalism course from night school, controls much of the puff pieces that emanate from the tabloids. Again, it’s old hat.
if JJs site is to retain its promise, then dissecting laws like Pauls site, questioning facts and disecting them for the layman like SFM or having a mole like Phil’s site, will help. Continually bad mouthing Dave King, will only end up with him sounding bitter with a score to settle. This is meant as constructive as the the ‘new kid on the block’ started off great but is wilting slightly.
Attack the hierarchy and not just Dave King as Mike Ashley will SWOT him when the time is right.

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upthehoopsPosted on9:15 am - Dec 28, 2015


Further on Stewart Robertson, why were we not told how great he was when he was in position at Motherwell? Motherwell are a club who live within their means in a challenging environment so surely whatever skills Robertson has were required on a daily basis just to keep Motherwell ticking over within all the agreed rules. Now he is at Ibrox the Scottish Football authorities and wider establishment will ensure that a Rangers entity always survives, even when they deny the public purse tens of millions of pounds. Yet people in the media thinks Scottish football can learn from him. Learn what, exactly? What could ANYONE at Celtic, or Aberdeen, or Hearts to name but three learn from how he does business at Ibrox? It is so ridiculous a notion it beggars belief that any journalist would put their name to it. 

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yourhavingalaughPosted on10:00 am - Dec 28, 2015


What we do know about Stewart Robertson is he has very close ties with the company that carried out the Sevco audit,and that is not sitting too well within this company,so I have heard.

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wottpiPosted on10:06 am - Dec 28, 2015


Just a thought (and a load of questions) re the potential repayment of the loan to SD.

Maybe there was some pressure from Big Mike to do the deal, however could the pressure re sorting out the SD loan be ‘internal’?

The AGM and accounts admitted £2.5m was required to keep the lights on to the end of this season and that the existing ‘investors’ would be stumping up.

I have long asked the question why would seasoned business men like Douglas Park continually  stump up cash in the form of ‘soft loans’ without securities. He must have his own legal &  financial advisers with their heads in their hands wondering what their client has gotten himself into. Additionally one has to question where the money is coming from? Park may indeed be a wealthy and successful business man but does he really have the required spare millions in his  personal account to be lavished on the club at Ibrox?

Like Mike Ashley’s contributions my guess is that the money is being channeled in via a company and that ‘corporate’ questions would/will be asked as the largesse being channeled towards Govan.

Could the repayment of the SD loan have something to do with the re-entry of Douglas Park to the board and an ‘in for a penny – in for a pound approach’ – re the money loaned already, the new £2.5m leccy bill money and the £5m SD loan,- whereby better to clear the external debts and then rework the loan arrangements to have the securities in RRM hands as opposed to sitting with Big Mike?

The eye watering totals can surely only continue if some form of security was given,  being that up to date there was nowt else on offer?

If it is true DCK doesn’t have a pot to piss in then, despite his previous bluster re taking the fight to Ashley, have the 3 Bears given him an offer he can’t refuse? (Also note that Park has now managed to get two places at the boardroom table to protect his interests)

If the loans are via companies controlled by Park etc then, depending on how it is arranged, will they become the creditors in the event of an insolvency event, therefore giving a degree of cover within the financial/legal niceties of it all, even if it turns out to be money pissed up against a wall?

I seem to remember that Mike Ashley very keen to know the terms of how  the earlier £1.5m ‘soft loan’ were arranged but that was swept under the carpet?

I am sure that given the openness and transparency shown by DCK it will all be out in the public domain very soon!!

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jimmciPosted on10:23 am - Dec 28, 2015


Is it simply me who finds that the newspapers are surprisingly light of comment on the Company having sent back money to repay a loan in full.Had the deal been really done I would have expected, as a minimum, the GLIB one himself making the announcement along with the rerun of a fabled and much loved car parl, Edminston house, and IP rights. Who knows, there could even have been space for a comment from a Sports Direct ” spokesman”. Keef would probably have been trumpeting on it in his column today.
None of that so far. Something stinks here,

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:25 am - Dec 28, 2015


jimmci 28th December 2015 at 10:23 am

Keef would probably have been trumpeting on it in his column today.
============================================

He’s too busy lecturing us that two successful managers (with actual championships won and everything!) are crap at their jobs, but the Aretha (R.E.S.P.E.C.T.) of Ibrox, who has won zilch, is not only the current big thing, but the next big thing and the next big thing after that as well.

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The Cat NR1Posted on11:57 am - Dec 28, 2015


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35187272
Euro 2016 will be poorer without Scotland – Gordon Strachan
.
I think that the headline may be related to a comment about the fans, otherwise I’m at a total loss.
He didn’t say whether the absence Denmark and Netherlands would also make the tournament poorer, although the intrepid reporter may not have asked the question.

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jimmciPosted on12:02 pm - Dec 28, 2015


Jeezo,
Have just seen yesterday’s puff piece, commented on above, from the Sun.One comment from all the other dross made me chuckle as Stewart Robertson chatted….
“Salaries are the biggest cost and you are always trying to manage that within the budget.“Of course, this is on a different scale from Motherwell. When I went to Motherwell it was post-administration and there wasn’t a lot of money around.”
Read that and weep. It’s as if Rangers are a towering success compared to poor old administration but not liquidated Rangers.
Honestly, how can any journo allow their name to be attached to such tosh.

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SteveplustaxPosted on12:48 pm - Dec 28, 2015


This might seem like an obvious question, but I don’t believe I’ve seen it asked/addressed during the course of Ashley’s endless mud-wrestling bout with Sevco.
Are RIFC fans actually buying their clumpany merch from SD outlets at this point?! There seems to have been some sort of attempt to promote a boycott, but given the antagonism that now exists between the two parties, I find it hard to imagine your average Bear/Bearette handing over their hard-earned to Large Michael. Much has been made of the seven-year notice period, but unless some sort of detente is reached, the potential revenue for SD could end up being more trouble than it’s worth. We keep hearing that it has become personal between Ashley and the Castlemilk voertrekker, and it certainly seems like a very one-sided battle–but to the victor the… what, exactly? Spoiled IP?
Then again, maybe the Ibrox hordes just can’t do without the latest variant on their time-honoured (three years to be exact) finery, and they’re a dependable source of £X million/year while they still have a team to call their own. Any pensées?

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woodsteinPosted on2:13 pm - Dec 28, 2015


After reading  Homunculus’ post of the 27th December 2015 at 4:42 pm,
 I remembered recently there was some information that Mike Ashley had been appointed to the Rangers Retail Board.
I had a look at CompanyCheck and found the entry for him, appointed on the  3rd of November this year.
There are now 4 directors, Mr D C King, Mr D M Forsey, Mr M J W Ashley and Mr P Murray.
It looks like this was an “evening up” of the board.
I checked out Mr D M Forsey and found another company.
Rangers Retail Rights Limited,  number 09210817 another quick check as above and the directors are Mr M J W Ashley and Mr D M Forsey
Incorporated  9th of September 2014
AR01 filed on 09 Sept 2015
Incorporation docs 10 Sept 2014
Now pure conjecture, but is this a vehicle for the RR IP “rights” or am I getting  2 + 2 = 5 ?
The last time I looked at company info was about 43 years ago and, it was “slightly different” ! 21
 

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HighlanderPosted on2:47 pm - Dec 28, 2015


As another year draws towards a close, I thought it might be worth reminding ourselves of a few fundamental facts regarding what has actually happened to Scottish football over the past four years, compared to what might have happened if our football authorities hadn’t suffered some kind of cerebral ‘whitey’ back in 2012. First and foremost it should be made clear, as rightly pointed out by SFM’s inimitable John Clark, that the football authorities should be the prime target of our scorn, angst, derision and disdain as it was they who were guilty of a massive dereliction of duty, not any form of Rangers or its support, who were merely the ungrateful recipients of the Big Lie, but who cannot themselves escape criticism for the starring role they have played in the ensuing tragicomedy that has embarrassed Scottish football ever since.
 
Stewart Regan proclaimed that what the football authorities did back in 2012 was ‘for the good of Scottish football’, so would he now care to explain how following the rules without fear or favour back then could conceivably have made things any worse? The Ibrox circus has provided us with calamity and drama virtually on a weekly basis over the past 4 years, any one of which would have any other club hauled before the beaks for bringing the game into disrepute. The only reasons that we haven’t heard as much of the pantomime in the past few weeks is partly down to the upcoming court cases and partly due to Mr King’s much vaunted openness and transparency policy, all done in a sort of shamelessly glibbish and lying kind of way of course.
 
Rules, whether belonging to our football authorities or indeed the law of the land, are there for good reason. However, our football authorities in particular seem to think that the application of those rules in relation to any form of Rangers is either optional or non-existent. As I’ve pointed out on here before, what level of disincentive is there for clubs to financially crash and burn if there are virtually no ramifications for that club, only for the expendable company that operated it? Why isn’t my club overspending squillions of pounds by buying Messi, Ronaldo and nine other global superstars when they can safely assume that the club will survive any subsequent liquidation caused by such reckless overspending? Why not risk going bust in the pursuit of Champions League glory if you can simply wipe the slate clean and then repeat the process over and over again?
 
These are the types of questions that Messrs Regan and Doncaster ought to be asking themselves and they’re the type of questions that our media ought to be asking of them too. Whilst they’re at it, our question-shy media might also want to enquire how Rangers* ended up in the 4th tier of Scottish football without being relegated, and without any sanction being imposed by the authorities, other than a meaningless 10 point deduction. They could even think of asking Neil Doncaster how LNS “put the same club debate to bed” despite saying, and I quote; “We see no room or need for separate findings of breaches by Rangers FC, which was not a separate legal entity and was then part (although clearly in football and financial terms the key part) of the undertaking of Oldco.” LNS couldn’t be much clearer; the club was not a separate legal entity from the company. They were one and the same, so when the company was liquidated, so was the club! Our mute and impotent media might want to follow that up by asking the authorities why the DOS EBTs were conveniently omitted from the scope of the LNS enquiry, despite guilt already having been established, thus avoiding sanction, or maybe they could question why Rangers* applied to the SPL board for permission for the old club’s (not company’s) players to play for the new club (not company) under SPL rule D.1.16, meaning that two Rangers clubs existed simultaneously back in 2012, conclusively proving that they can’t conceivably be the same club.
 
Let’s be clear though about why the football authorities and Rangers* insist they’re the same club. It has very little to do with financial Armageddon and civil unrest, and absolutely everything to do with preserving and building on a 54 title world record. If reality prevailed and Rangers had gone the way of Third Lanark and Gretna (yes, I know they did really!), I for one would have no problem with a new club playing out of Ibrox in red, white and blue and supported by those thousands of decent fans who only want to watch their team play football. They could even use the word ‘Rangers’ in their name, such as FC Rangers of Glasgow (or whatever they chose), but they categorically would not be entitled to claim the trophies and titles of the dead club! See how easy it could’ve been Stewart and Neil?
 
We could be forgiven for thinking that our football authorities will go to great lengths to avoid charging any form of Rangers with any kind of offence, far less punishing them commensurately for their crimes, as they would with any other club. It will be interesting if those authorities continue to sidestep their duties and fail to expunge certain titles and trophies from the record books once the upcoming court cases and EBT appeal aren’t there to provide perceived decision-making delays, because I genuinely believe it will prove that the football authorities are willing to save one club even if that means sacrificing Scottish football as a whole, as will be the case when fans walk away in droves from the game they love.
  
 
Finally, can one of our less than intrepid journalists please ask Stewart Regan whether the license the SFA issued in 2012 allowing Charles Green’s new club to play football was in any way conditional on the satisfaction of certain financial criteria being met, perhaps being solvent being at the top of the list? Talking of which, it can’t go unmentioned that 40 of the 42 senior clubs in Scotland have taken action to live within their means within the past few years (with apologies to Livi if they too have recently put their house in order). It’s also important to point out that Scottish football has taken those necessary steps towards sustainability not because of the actions of our football authorities and Rangers*, but despite them!

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bfbpuzzledPosted on3:46 pm - Dec 28, 2015


Sectarian singing at Ibrox enough is enough no more to paeans of praise to Fascist razor gangs addressed against me …let me know when it is the 21st century 

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Kilgore TroutPosted on4:57 pm - Dec 28, 2015


bfbpuzzled

The most damning aspect is that there will be, at the very most, token reporting or comment on this tonight and tomorrow and by Wednesday it quite simply will never have happened.  

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tonyPosted on5:08 pm - Dec 28, 2015


Kilgore Trout
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug@TheClumpany I’m talking about the football. Just the football.

already started

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HomunculusPosted on5:36 pm - Dec 28, 2015


bfbpuzzled 28th December 2015 at 3:46 pm
==============================

Every time they do it and get away with it makes it more likely they will do it again. If no action is taken, which I expect to be the case then they will simply do it more and more often until it goes back to being common practice.

They will see themselves as being immune to any action, again and Scottish football will once more be blighted by their bile.

It won’t be long before you are looking forward to our game progressing to the 20th century, never mind the 21st.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:00 pm - Dec 28, 2015


Tomorrow is the first working day after Christmas, and the banks will be open again for business. Transactions made on Christmas Eve will be in the system. Just saying like.

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tykebhoyPosted on7:34 pm - Dec 28, 2015


@Woodstein re RRRights Ltd I’m no expert either but I would agree with your interpretation that it is the steering vehicle for the IP.

@Steveplustax if PMGB is correct then SD will do better out of a boycott because RIFC have to buy the excess at retail which is higher than the discounted SD price merchandise bought in the shop goes for.  Part of the7 year RRL deal?

Re the Govan choir.  I didn’t watch the entire match but I did hear the BT commentator apologise at least twice for expletives which may have been picked up by microphones.  Did I miss an apology for what is now a criminal offence being picked up by the same microphones?  One like that offered by Ray Stubbs on ESPN in Berwick which of course is Englandshire!

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ianagainPosted on9:08 pm - Dec 28, 2015


All I can say about that game was get again Hibs lost their shape and heart in this game which I enjoyed.
Duck’s.
Well done Rangers.

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on10:20 pm - Dec 28, 2015


Obviously I can’t confirm if this is correct as I don’t know.
From Twitter tonight:
moo ‏@moo_ted 2h2 hours ago
A couple of questions the media might want to ask tomorrow;
Has the Ibrox payroll been paid early this month ? Yes.
Was it paid in full ? No.
As an aside,I assume the 3 bears will not be receiving repayment of their 1st set of loans due december 2015.

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upthehoopsPosted on10:32 pm - Dec 28, 2015


Torrejohnbhoy@10:20pm

The Twitter user you quote claims to be an ex pro player, now a businessman.  As you say we have no way of knowing how true the tweet is. His recent timeline has another VERY interesting tweet but I’ll leave it for folk to look up themselves.

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torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on10:42 pm - Dec 28, 2015


upthehoops 28th December 2015 at 10:32 pm #Torrejohnbhoy@10:20pm
The Twitter user you quote claims to be an ex pro player, now a businessman.  As you say we have no way of knowing how true the tweet is. His recent timeline has another VERY interesting tweet but I’ll leave it for folk to look up themselves.
——————————–
Think I know which one you mean and if true(and it’s a big if)as we have no way of confirming same,then it’s very interesting news indeed.To be fair to the poster,he does say that it’s only a whisper he has heard.

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wottpiPosted on10:07 am - Dec 29, 2015


ianagain 28th December 2015 at 9:08 pm

Can’t see that the post merited so many thumbs downs given it was a reflection on the game. Would have liked to see Hibs win or even a draw would have made for an interesting result with Falkirk winning  but it looks like the better team won on the day.

Didn’t see the game but caught bits on the radio. Seems T’Rangers got themselves sorted out and maybe Stubbs went over the top and gave Warburton his team talk.

Regardless, the interesting thing for me is does what appears to have been a relatively dominant performance against a high flying Hibs (combined with stumping up £5m (plus???) and the £2.5m leccy bill)  keep the war chest well and truly shut?

Similarly the three youngsters on loan all sat out with the exception of Ball who came on to shore up the back when T’Rangers went down to ten men. The team, with Law back in midfield, but not up to a full 90mins, looks like the best that can be put out from the permanent signings.

I had previously posted about who may be out of contract in January (nicked from elsewhere) but that info could could have been wrong as transfermarket  (see below) says folks are signed up until the end of June next year.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/glasgow-rangers/vertragsende/verein/124/vertragsendeJahr/2016

Either way T’Rangers squad, come the end of the season,  will look thin on the ground. Players will need to be added at some point to have a decent squad size to deal with hardened premiership teams.

Even with winning against Hibs yesterday the league isn’t over and it looks like a bit of a gamble to try and keep everyone injury free and maintain a top spot. If there was another dip in form resulting in having to deal with the play-offs, that could be a bit awkward.

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SmugasPosted on10:28 am - Dec 29, 2015


Precisely Wottpi,

No-one has any issues with a genuine sevco (which the fans can call Rangers if they want) coming up by merit of their own play and investment.  Its exactly the reason why I wanted Motherwell to win the play-off last year, since it would help, in a cruel to be kind way, the club to shake off a lot of its emperor garments and hangers on and allow the club’s shareholders to show their true mettle. To date they seem to have done that although the true funding position remains unclear per the wages story this morning – but positive with, contrary to a lot of posts on here, little to no external debt.

The song book was predictable and if the authorities refuse to address it then what do you expect.  Same with the old club issue and the inevitable undeterred hubris that accompanies it.  If Regan and Doncaster, on behalf of OUR clubs, held the door ajar and waved a big shiny sign with “THIS WAY” on it what exactly did we expect the sizeable, and at that time desperate, Rangers support to do?

All that said, I agree that this may be a chaliced victory for sevco.  One win is a slim lead but may see the investment warchest (contents tbc) closed for another 6 months.  That would seem a very risky course to chart given several commentators from both sides that a third season in Div 1 would be unthinkable.

But then that returns us once again to the central theme ignored by all.  The club is apparently immortal so what exactly is the unthinkable bit?    

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HomunculusPosted on10:51 am - Dec 29, 2015


Smugas 29th December 2015 at 10:28 am #
Precisely Wottpi,

To date they seem to have done that although the true funding position remains unclear per the wages story this morning – but positive with, contrary to a lot of posts on here, little to no external debt.

=================================

I can understand why the £18m owed by TRFC to RIFC is not considered “external debt” as the former is a wholly owned subsidiary of the latter. They are effectively the same business and the PLC produces accounts covering the whole group. The debt doesn’t really mean a lot.

However as I understand the situation the PLC now has debts of something like £11.25m. That money is owed, for the most part (or totally) to shareholders in the business. Is that not “external debt”. There may not be onerous terms, or there may be bit of leeway in repaying it however it is debt.

Not being a bean counter I don’t understand these thing, however as a lay man it seems a bit of a push to say they have no external debt. Unless of course you were talking about TRFC in which case my apologies.

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SmugasPosted on10:54 am - Dec 29, 2015


Non football non court case priorities to watch for:

1/  The inevitable Ashley response to the repayment even if it is just Thanx BM.

2/  I wonder how much the wages were short – £500k by any chance?

3/  Equally no comment on the £2.5m urgently required.  Its obviously there as I definitely saw lights on yesterday but there in entirety? and linked to the above, 2.5m net of the 5m ‘in the post’?  I’m guessing naw!  My understanding of the Campbell Dallas statement was that the 2.5m soft loan plus plus the fans’ fighting fund was required to get to the end of the season. 

4/  Fans investment (fighting fund) expected in January.  I think JJ calls it the CIC?  Can that come in without the voting rights being returned the other way?  I thought there were constitutional issues with that. 

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HomunculusPosted on11:00 am - Dec 29, 2015


Smugas 29th December 2015 at 10:54 am
============================

I think the fighting fund and CIC are different things.

The fighting fund was simply donations by the supporters. The CIC is a Community Interest Company, intended to be used to buy shares in the PLC.

I think the CIC is limited in what it can do, however if the pre-emption resolution had passed then they could have “bought shares” in advance of a rights / share issue.

That’s just my understanding.

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armchairsupporterPosted on11:04 am - Dec 29, 2015


Belated merry Christmas one and all. I have fallen a bit behind on my reading – just had to catch up 3 days worth of posts. Feeling a bit more informed again so thanks to all the posters who managed to make time at such a busy time of the year,
i wait with baited breath to hear the announcement that the Ashley loan has actually been repaid. But, I hear nothing.
i do hear a lot of congratulations for Mark Warburton and his side though. Are they not financially doped, given the clubs inability to make payrolls and see out the rest of the season without external finance. Surelya sustainable business plan of living within its means would be a fair place to start and surely this would be a prerequisite laid down by football authorities worth their salt – ah, that’s where I’m going wrong.
The JJ site seems to have taken a bashing over the past few days. That is a real shame. There has been a lot of good content on there and JJ is always mutually respectful to others who seek truth and justice. It is an interesting relationship between JJ and Phil, given their diametric opposition in football terms. I find that quite refreshing. He may not be able to lace big Paul McConville’s boots, in terms of accuracy and attention to detail, but very few could.
i do miss the big guy and would certainly appreciate his not so random thoughts on the present proceedings.

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SmugasPosted on11:09 am - Dec 29, 2015


Homunculus,

Perfect timing!

I had a chance conversation over the break with someone who would know and I can assure you the £11.25m (your figure) is very much considered as an external and very real, if cheap, debt in the truest sense.  But, for the purposes of here, I take the view that the 3Bs knowingly whilst in possession of the full facts stupidly, in my humble opinion, jumped onto King’s hubristic showboat anyway and so deserve all that’s coming hence my excluding it here.

Put it this way, I was left with the impression from said brief conversation that the 3B’s were aware of the facts but seemed to take the view that it was still an advisable but possibly the only course of action to take.  I was given no in sight to the continuing motive other than to say my impression was that zadok the priest did not feature heavily in their immediate thinking.

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HomunculusPosted on11:20 am - Dec 29, 2015


Smugas 29th December 2015 at 11:09 am
=============================

Thanks for the reply.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is as far as I can see the only option they have.

Without going over the whole thing again we have a PLC which has lost substantial amounts in it’s first three years and is still loss making. It operates in a volatile market, assets like player registrations can become worthless with one badly timed tackle. There are ongoing Court cases which may cast doubt over the ownership of certain assets.

Where else is money going to come from and on what terms. By any measure it would be a high risk investment, particularly with the issues regarding security.

I think the shareholders are providing this funding because they have no other realistic option. The business would simply fold without them. The big question is, forgetting about any chance of being repaid, how much more are they willing to put in. It really is a very expensive hobby just now.

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SmugasPosted on11:29 am - Dec 29, 2015


Homunculus 29th December 2015 at 11:20 am #                
 forgetting about any chance of being repaid

Precisely, and this is what piqued my interest in the conversation I allude to.  Your comment that I extracted above most certainly did not feature!  It was as much as I could do, mid trifle as I was, not to splutter But but but How the f… 

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