Some of us are old enough to remember the days when we played football in the streets with lamp posts for goals. The “baw” in my day was a plastic “Hampden Frido” (with wee studs that left yer forehead looking like a golf ball when heading it – see picture) and a “Wembley Mettoy”.
Cue memories of MouldMasters and days of pain and glory
But I digress.
The plastic ball was prone to bursting and on a good day or evening a replacement was secured by the original version of crowd funding.; However, the Calton then was a poor neighbourhood and sometimes the “baw” depended on the generosity of a single provider.
This came with risks because generous folk can still be bad losers and if the provider’s team of rags, taigs and bluenoses (remember when that didn’t matter) was getting a drubbing or a high shot was deemed a goal but he protested because he was only 4 feet 6 tall and ,with no crossbar ,height is but a subjective perspective, hence argumentative, or perhaps the goal that created a 10 goal gap occasionally saw the baw ,metaphorical if not physically, land on the slates, at which point the provider and now owner, out of his sense of entitlement as owner, grab the baw and threatened to storm off in the huff.
As long as the game was everything and in the Calton then EVERYTHING was fitbaw, the bawless plebs were only too willing to reduce the imaginary cross bar height or take their foot off the gas, hence the derogatory saying of those who capitulate too easily “they hivnae any baws”.
Memories! Wit are they like and what is the connection to modern day Scottish professional football?
I’m indebted to this article by The Battered Bunnet first posted on CQN on 30 June 2012 at https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/abject-failure-of-leadership/comment-page-2/#comment-1479329 since reproduced on other blogs including SFM but worth reproducing here:
“Senior Hampden source tells ch4news cannot see how RFC were allowed to play lastseason at all. Doesn’t believe they met finance criteria…”
Alex Thomson – Twitter
Alex Thomson’s tweets yesterday re ‘senior Hampden source’ casting doubt on Rangers’ eligibility to obtain a Club Licence last year were rather intriguing.
We have by now a clearer picture of the failure of governance at Rangers through the David Murray/ John McClelland/ Alastair Johnston/ Craig Whyte years, albeit we await further definitive details from the judgement of the Tax Tribunal. Essentially, over a period spanning 2 decades, the means that Rangers used to sustain its football operation utterly disregarded the requirements of both corporate governance and football regulation. While the scandal related solely to payments and procedures within Rangers, we could hope that it was contained internally.
However, the revelation that Rangers paid former manager Souness via EBT while he was manager at Blackburn Rovers confirmed for the first time that the scandal had become external. I understand that RangersTaxCase and Alex Thomson have further information on the extent of payments to Souness and also to Walter Smith, and look forward to the details being revealed, but it is now clear that the Rangers ‘toxin’ had leached out of the club by 2001.
The compelling question now is: How far did the toxin spread?
Was it contained within the ‘outer circle’ of former Rangers employees, however inexplicable such payments may appear? Or did it extend beyond that outer circle, and contaminate senior figures in the Game in Scotland. The contamination does not relate solely to payments from Rangers’offshore trust, but more subtly perhaps, the behaviour of individuals in positions of influence.
We know that Rangers’ Executive Chairman JohnMcClelland was an SPL Board member during the startling ramp up of EBT use from 2003 to 2005, and was himself a beneficiary of the scheme.
We know that Rangers’ Chief Executive Martin Bain was an SPL Board member 2008 to 2011, coinciding with the receipt by Rangers of the HMRC assessments on the EBT scheme, of which he was himself a beneficiary.
We know that current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie was simultaneously an SFA Director and Executive Director and Company Secretary of Rangers, and was a beneficiary of the scheme.
These parallel functions of course present a profound conflict of interest for each man, at once implementing a scam on the Game to disguise a fraud on the Revenue, while owing specific legal duties of care to the Game being scammed.
So far, so shabby.
Thomson’s tweets yesterday indicate a doubt on the part of a ‘senior Hampden source’ that Rangers were eligible to hold a Club Licence last season, thus disqualifying them from participating in European competition, and perhaps Scottish Football too. Is this doubt grounded in a retrospective review of the licence qualifying criteria given what has emerged recently? Or was there a ‘blind eye’ turned by the SFA’s Licensing Committee to information in the public domain at the time of the Licence application? In this respect the ‘Wee Tax Case’ represented a fundamental failure against at least one Licence criterion.
The proposals to the SFL clubs this week make it plain that should the SFA conclude the outstanding Disciplinary issues against Rangers with either suspension or expulsion of Rangers from the SFA(perhaps the only sanctions remaining available to the SFA following Lord Glennie’s Judicial Review) that the Game will face ‘financial meltdown’.
Concurrently, the SPL has adjudged Rangers to have a prima facie case to answer in respect of SPL rule breaches on player registration, the outcome of which will confirm that the club fielded ineligible players in upwards of 400 SPL matches. The only possible disciplinary outcome given such a sustained breach of SPL rules, corrupting the completion as it did from its inception in 1999 to 2011, is expulsion from theSPL.
As a consequence, the SFA, as the authority responsible for implementing FIFA’s Rules on the Registration of Players, will be required to act on these breaches of FIFA rules. Again, expulsion for what amounts to Championship fixing is inevitable.
Curiously, the SFL, this week asking its members to vote to admit the Sevco Rangers club into their top tier, has the same issue given that its League Cup competition featured dozens of ineligible Rangers players through the years, and further claims by Hugh Adam that its‘Premier Division’ competition during the 1990s was similarly bent through the use of ‘off the books’ payments to players by Rangers.
The scale of it all is breath-taking and were the rules of the Game to be applied, Rangers FC would be expelled from each Governing body in turn, before we even consider the extraordinary breaches of faith and duties by co-serving Directors.
But according to the SFL/SFA/SPL circular to clubs, “Rangers Terminated or Suspended’ will cause “Financial Meltdown”.
To avoid this meltdown, it is proposed by the Executives of the combined SFL/SFA/SPL that the rules of the Game are not applied to Rangers, and that the clubs effectively rewrite the rule book to permit what remains of the club to compete at the top of the SFL.
In effect, according to the Governing Bodies,the Rules of the Game CANNOT be applied to Rangers or the Game’s finances will‘meltdown’.
The corollary question this raises is: For how long have the Governing bodies been so unable to apply the Rules of the Game to Rangers? Is this a new epiphany, or a longer standing recognition?
When Rangers submitted their allegedly ineligible application for a Club Licence in 2011, did the SFA recognise that Rangers failing to participate in Europe would cause the club to fail, as it subsequently did? Were the Rules ignored to avoid ‘financial meltdown’ then?
How far did the toxin spread?
Did this recognition extend back to the period following the disintegration of Murray International, hitherto Rangers’ source of continuing funding? Was the season of ‘Honest Mistakes’ some absurd, dutiful reaction to the recognition that should Rangers fail, Scottish Football would melt down?
Was the ineligible status of so many of Rangers’ first team players noticed prior to the SPL’s Inquiry commencing on 5th March? Was it noticed in an Audit as part of the SFA’s Club Licensing process some years ago? Was it noticed by the recent SFA Chief Executive Gordon Smith, who as an Agent had represented players on Rangers’ books through his Directorship of Prostar Management and other Agencies?
Beyond the duplicity of Ogilvie, McClelland and Bain, were Rangers’ irregular practices known to others at the SFA and SPL,others who chose not to address the matter, thus further contaminated the Governing Bodies with the Rangers toxin?
It is heartening that the Liquidators of Rangers plc will be instructed to examine all of the circumstances surrounding the failure of Rangers as a corporate entity. Equally, perhaps the detail contained in the Tax Tribunal judgement will reveal further connections,hitherto unknown.
What is likely to remain hidden from view though, is the full extent to which key influencers at the Governing Bodies were aware of Rangers’ conduct and circumstances, and how this affected their behaviour and their decision making in applying the rules of the Game to that club.
What we can say with certainty now though is that the people holding office at the Governing Bodies are unable or unwilling to apply the Rules of the Game to Rangers, despite the breaches being fundamentally and profoundly corrupt. The SFA and SPL, despite having outstanding disciplinary cases against Rangers that will, in all other circumstances see the club expelled from the Game, are intent to delete the cases provided the SFL clubs accept the Sevco Rangers into the SFL’s top division.
The Rules of the Game cannot be applied to Rangers.
When the rules cannot be applied, the Game itself is broken, and we can say now with some certainty that the Rangers toxin has spread beyond the club, its former employees and Directors of the Governing Bodies, and contaminated the very Game itself. The Office Bearers of the SFA,whose FIFA mandate requires them to “protect and foster the Game” in Scotland,and “protect it from abuses”, have contrived to do the contrary, to the point where the Game is stricken.
It is for this reason that a thorough clear out of the Office Bearers in the Governing Bodies is now a prerequisite to the Game recovering from the poison inflicted upon it by Rangers. The dissolution of the Governing Bodies is perhaps appropriate.
Clear your desk Gentlemen, the bus to ignominy departs shortly.
The position that the SFA and then SPL found themselves in is perfectly clear from the foregoing. Desperately keen for commercial reasons to hold onto the “baw” they changed the rules, but never took ownership of the baw from the owner and so are still beholden to him.
Hence the blog title “We Are Going To Need Another Baw “ because the one currently in play is burst, stuffed with £14M worth of share vouchers.
What was done in 2012 was understandably commercially necessary, but the price to be paid was twofold:
- Not just to the integrity of our game then but the ongoing price now, where all energies are directed at continuing to pretend that the rules are followed without fear of favour.
- The idea that the Scottish game cannot survive without a “ Rangers” is one that most folk would accept but the danger arising, which is unacceptable, is that because of it “Rangers” think they can do as they please as a result which requires rules to be reinforced. And seen to be reinforced.
They clearly aren’t under the SFA’s own rule enforcing process called the Judicial Panel Protocol https://www.sfm.scot/jpp-perverting-justice/ not to mention Club Licensing processes that have so far manged to avoid the scrutiny that, had Resolution 12 been acted upon in 2013, would have resulted in changes that would protect the game from all those who think it is still their baw.
The general perception of supporters is that lessons have not been learned from past behaviour.
Until there is evidence that they have, for example: the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal investigating at snail’s pace the process followed in 2011 that allowed a UEFA licence to be granted to Rangers FC without question, coming to conclusion or providing reasons why it cannot by the spring, the perception will continue to be “Its all about Rangers” followed by what is the point?.
Is it not about time now that the fear that drove thinking in 2012 was faced and recognised by all clubs as unfounded and a new integrity filled baw was used?
What is there to fear now from restoring integrity to its rightful place, unless of course you were party to the thinking that kicked the integrity of our game to death in 2012 and are still in a position of influence?
https://mobile.twitter.com/KeltyHeartsFC/status/1086983054990721025?p=v
Kelty Hearts Football Club statement.
You know, the club that had a testimonial game canceled because the new rangers did not have a licence to play football.
Anyway i’m sure Mr Bryson will help them
https://twitter.com/scotpatsfan/status/1086983542591115264?s=21
Accountant, columnist and one time top class footballer presents his take on Sevconomics.
Ex Ludo 20th January 2019 at 18:39 They played HJK Helsinki in a friendly today?
just as well that game on Friday was cancelled, two games in the space of a few days.
Any injuries on friday and they would have missed the friendly.
Ex Ludo 20th January 2019 at 18:39
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What's getting liquidated this time, The PLC, or its subsidiary Ltd Co or the separate club (apparently there is one nowadays) operated by that company.
Homunculus@19.02
There’s the rub. If such an event were ever to occur (heaven forfend) the verbal gymnastics trying to explain it all away would make the 2012 event seem like a Janet and John book.
Homunculus 20th January 2019 at 19:02
Ex Ludo 20th January 2019 at 19:11
……………………..
Not to worry the club’s are on it…..
But maybe the events of 2012 are lost in their memory. There was a lot going on at the time.
SPL: Clubs set new financial fair play rules at Hampden meeting 30 May 2012
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/18263819
Scottish Premier League clubs have voted at Hampden not to introduce fixed punishments for clubs reforming as new companies known as ‘newcos’.
Instead sanctions will be imposed on a case-by-case basis with the decision taken by all 12 member clubs.
“An obligation to pay the taxman on time with a player registration embargo automatically coming in if there is any failure – those are big changes that demonstrate very clearly how serious the clubs are that clubs do live within their means.
“It was a really good discussion and the clubs should be congratulated for biting the bullet and agreeing a tougher regime in terms of financial fair play, insisting the clubs do live within their means and punishing proportionately if they fail to do that.
“That is a very bold step they have taken.”
Ex Ludo 20th January 2019 at 18:39 https://twitter.com/scotpatsfan/status/1086983542591115264?s=21 Accountant, columnist and one time top class footballer presents his take on Sevconomics.
_______________________
That's a truly incredible thing for anyone to state publicly and just goes to show why it is imperative that liquidation means liquidation and how the SFA/SFL/SMSM and every other liquidation denier have done the game a massive disservice. If TRFC really are, and I believe they are, throwing everything at denying Celtic 10 in a row in the belief that liquidation just means same club starts again with no debt, then our game truly is a complete and utter farce.
Is there a room in Ibrox that has 'lodged' within it a replica Pandora's Box (it could only be a replica there, in line with the current club) that is letting out curses on the rest of Scottish football?
AllyJambo@19.33
If the current farce regarding the “status” of the present Ibrox regime is magnified by an administration event and it is not properly dealt with by the SFA and reported accurately by the media, Scottish football will simply die. What would be the point?
Cluster One 20th January 2019 at 19:17
'…SPL: Clubs set new financial fair play rules at Hampden meeting 30 May 2012
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/18263819.'
_______________________
An excellent reminder to us all of the early origins of the Big Lie, Cluster One .
There were and are some really bad bas.ards out there in Scottish Football governance.
And worse ones in the SMSM
I see domestic financial fair play surfacing now that the need for it has become apparent again.
This post is from yesterday on CQN so comes at it initially from a Celtic angle but raises the issue why are other clubs Directors blind with regard to where this foolish policy of making the welfare of Scottish football solely dependent on the recklessness of one club will lead. It also contains a reference to Res12 and its relevance to righting Scottish football.
In response to a part of a post by CHAIRBHOY on 20TH JANUARY 2019 9:52 AM
What a huge miss Res12 was, really hope we give this another think… a Club is paying out the money made on their Euro endeavours on a couple of players in the hope that their experience can secure the League. That Club lost £14M last year, should they have got a UEFA licence? Should they be allowed to gamble?
==========
Response
The message coming from Celtic is that none of the other clubs nor UEFA are interested in pursuing Res12 but there is a process in train .e. the JPDT and that is under question.
Whilst what happened in 2011 can be treated by clubs and UEFA as yesterday’s news, its currency lies in what took place then.
Unless SFA can produce some contrary evidence, what is available and usable under football rules to make it so, tells us that RFC obtained the UEFA licence in 2011under false pretences.
Some of the folk involved are still there and a leopard, especially one from the Mulk with its lair in South Africa, doesn’t change its spots.
The principles at stake driving Res12 will never go away for that is the nature of principles, but if anything is to happen inside football jurisprudence it will only happen when the Celtic family (which includes the Board) say “Enough” and why.
Silence will have had its day.
It is not just Celtic though who might have to pay the cost of the insane TRFC business model, league positions bring cash rewards, so all clubs below TRFC at the finish will have felt the financial consequences of the TRFC business model, but the Directors of those clubs appear to care not a jot.
What happens if, in spite of all the help from Hampden that makes every decision on and off the park go their way, TRFC face administration again?
Is it more rinse and repeat or are clubs going to back a form of domestic FFP where an external licensor is appointed? I think from memory UEFA allow this for UEFA FFP licensing on which domestic FFP would be based but with tighter borrowing and source of borrowing controls.
What if administration led to TRFC liquidation? Would supporters of all clubs accept rinse and repeat again?
The folk running Scottish football and that includes Celtic are so far not up to the task of introducing honesty and restoring trust. That is self evident or it would have happened by now.
Res12 isn’t over yet, but if it ends without the need for SFA reform being accepted, then all tickets sold to supporters of all clubs should carry a ” buyer beware” warning saying:
” In purchasing this ticket you are accepting that the result of the games you will be paying to watch will not solely be determined under the published rules but an interpretation of those rules that fits the desired outcome”
If I were Celtic I would make domestic financial fair play a condition of Celtic participating in Scottish football but without the support of other clubs on matters of principle, necessary trust restoring reform will not happen.
Ex Ludo 20th January 2019 at 21:23
If the current farce regarding the “status” of the present Ibrox regime is magnified by an administration event and it is not properly dealt with by the SFA and reported accurately by the media, Scottish football will simply die. What would be the point?
============================
Let's face it. If Rangers won the league this season then had an insolvency event would the SPFL, the SFA or the media care? Ten-in-a-row for Celtic would be gone and that's all that matters.
Ten in a row means absolutely nothing to me or fans outside of Celtic and Rangers.
Bill @ 08:59
It's easy (or perhaps simply naïve, or mischievous) to say 'Ten in a row means absolutely nothing to me or fans outside of Celtic and Rangers'.
The efforts of Sevco-Rangers to prevent this from happening are already having a very real and detrimental impact on all of Scottish football.
Bill1903 21st January 2019 at 08:59
While I agree with you completely, the threat of 10 in a row does add to the possibility that TRFC will overstretch to breaking point due to their WATP attitude, which, as well as adding much mirth to the 'Rangers' saga, could well have greater repercussions for the SFA than it did when Rangers went burst.
Anything that puts pressure on those complicit in all we hold in contempt is to be welcomed, while TRFC going burst and another club winning the league to stop the 10 welcomed even more by all but Celtic.
Points taken re 10 in a row
I understand that this version of Rangers want to stop it happening under any circumstances.
Dunderheid 21st January 2019 at 09:40 Bill @ 08:59 It's easy (or perhaps simply naïve, or mischievous) to say 'Ten in a row means absolutely nothing to me or fans outside of Celtic and Rangers'. The efforts of Sevco-Rangers to prevent this from happening are already having a very real and detrimental impact on all of Scottish football.
_____________________
I took Bill's post solely in the sense that outside of the Celtic/TRFC bubble the 10 in a row, in a sporting sense, means nothing. I am sure he is fully aware of the damage that is being done to every club other than Celtic (who probably benefit somewhat from the rivalry financially), but, like me, hopes the desperation to stop the 10 leads to TRFC getting their just desserts for the damage they are causing.
Seeing as you may be around, Auldheid …
A few days ago, I asked the following question (see below), to which I can't see any reply.
Are you able to offer a response to this?
Dunderheid 16th January 2019 at 15:18
The multiple failures by the SFA in relation to Rangers past and present are a clear threat to every other team in the SPL. That Celtic may or may not achieve a fabled 10 in a row remains to be seen but the concerns around Rangers can’t be allowed to be just a 2 club, west of Scotland thing. Should the Ibrox club achieve the title or a cup win whilst spending way beyond their means teams such as Kilmarnock, Hearts and Aberdeen are likely to be denied European football and lesser share of the prize money from domestic football.
Allyjambo 21st January 2019 at 10:05
I took Bill's post solely in the sense that outside of the Celtic/TRFC bubble the 10 in a row, in a sporting sense, means nothing. I am sure he is fully aware of the damage that is being done to every club other than Celtic (who probably benefit somewhat from the rivalry financially), but, like me, hopes the desperation to stop the 10 leads to TRFC getting their just desserts for the damage they are causing.
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That's exactly what i meant Ally thank you
Similarly the worlds most successful club nonsense going for 55 etc
Nobody really cares
Dunderheid 10.19
Steps are being taken to help the SFA Compliance Officer to take matters forward correctly.
By ST renewal there will be enough information available to help supporters of all clubs decide what the truth is.
After that, what happens then is up to them.
Thanks, Auldheid.
That sounds encouraging.
Auldheid 21st January 2019 at 10:56
'..Steps are being taken to help the SFA Compliance Officer to take matters forward correctly.'
+++++++++++++++++++
Auldheid, not being a member of the Res 12 group, although very much in support of their objective, I would like to read into what you say, that the suggestion is that the Compliance Officer's brief may be being broadened to include an earlier period predating the date specified in the original brief, thus allowing the inclusion of an examination into how the UEFA licence came to be awarded by the Licensing Committee in spite of knowledge that there was no possibility that RFC of 1872 was entitled under the Rules of UEFA to such award.
It remains to be seen whether my hoped for reading proves to be correct.
Behind all the bug.ering about in a football/sports context, there is the very real possibility of a crime having been committed by one plc and a governance body, costing a loss of millions of pounds to another plc; which loss is NOT for the directors or majority shareholder to casually ignore in the face of a shareholder Resolution that it should be looked into!
The problem has to be resolved, and if the CO does not resolve it, then perhaps the Criminal Courts may have to.
Has CFC lodged a complaint at Hampden yet about Sinclair's disallowed 'offside' goal?
As others have mentioned, it wasn't even a close or debatable decision, [and separately Sinclair was denied a hat trick].
After the midweek 'summit' it might seem churlish to complain – but if it had been 0-0, or even 0-1 at the time it would have become yet another high profile, 'honest mistake'.
[And did the ref not have a good view of Sinclair's position, or at least the defensive line?]
CFC – and ALL the other clubs – should be jumping up and down very publicly about EVERY shocking ref decision.
And keep the pressure on the SFA that change / improvement is long overdue for all match officials.
IMO, every complaint would be a worthwhile reminder that the quality / structure of the Scottish Refs' Association is simply not working – and simply unacceptable.
And the paying supporters of all clubs deserve much, much better from the SFA – and now.
Bill1903, I also find the whole TIAR, Going for 55 stuff completely irrelevant but acknowledge that it is about "big two" bragging rights. It has, however, gotten out of hand throughout modern day football though with a huge sense of entitlement from the "supporters" of the "big" clubs. It's got to the stage where not absolutely blootering everyone every week is seen as failure and managers are sacked for , e.g., not winning their league or even the European Cup. I watched the EPL Saturday night show this weekend, Crystal Palace went up 1-0 against Liverpool: "1-0 Palace" bawled the commentator, "What a crazy game we support!!". What a joke, it's a game of fitba pal. Leicester winning the EPL was mooted as shock of the century but wee City's wage bill is 40% of Manyoo and Mancity, a significant difference but chicken sh*t compared to the delta between top and middle of most leagues, including ours of course. There is currently loads of copy covering the apparently unacceptable case of our richest club only being top of the league on goal difference with a game in hand in mid January. I'm amazed a few teams got the requisite results for this to happen.
I think it would be great if Killie won the league this year: unlikely but maybe if we stop responding to the folks who are sh*tting themselves that Celtic could win TIAR then maybe we can get on with enjoying the game whoever you support?
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/glasgow-city-council-predatory-act-on-celtic-fans/
Judging by the comments today I don’t think this article will engender much sympathy however this development will also affect away fans too.
Bill1903 21st January 2019 at 08:59
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Ten in a row means absolutely nothing to me or fans outside of Celtic and Rangers.
******
As a Celtic supporter, 10 in a row means absolutely nothing to me either….at this time.
If we reach 9, then it will.
However, it is the fear of 8 that is driving Sevco to what, in any honest environment, would be the brink of destruction.
They are not thinking of 10. The clear need is to win this season's title and, wishfully, the CL money they assume they will get.
ThomTheThim 21st January 2019 at 15:16
"However, it is the fear of 8 that is driving Sevco to what, in any honest environment, would be the brink of destruction. They are not thinking of 10. The clear need is to win this season's title and, wishfully, the CL money they assume they will get"
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. Nail on head….
https://twitter.com/indyfootball/status/1087395280079765504?s=21
It seems that no matter how much net worth certain people have they and their advisors just can’t help themselves.
John Clark 13.18
Only two possibilities exist:
Either the licence of March 2011 to RFC was correctly granted under ALL of UEFA FFP articles or it wasn't.
Why it has taken over 5 years to establish which applies is for the SFA to answer and consequently in the absence of a decision we cannot rule out that the licence was correctly granted.
However the time taken to address the issue suggests the last thing the SFA (and possibly Celtic) want is a decision that it wasn't correctly granted because the consequences put the SFA in the dock much more than the new club/ company (to use Traverso's justification for not applying sanctions to RFC in 2012) who took the place of RFC in Scottish football.
Why TRFC are asking the matter go to CAS (as we understand it) is a mystery. It has nothing to do with TRFC as a new football club/company that replaced RFC, although some of the same individuals employed in 2011 by RFC are still there.
The narrative will show that the whole Compliance Officer regime under the Judicial Panel Protocol is worthless when it comes to providing justice and there has to be independent oversight of the SFA and SPFL that forces accountability to restore any semblance of trust in the SFA as a governing body responsible for policing and enforcing the rules.
Accountability is the last thing ALLclubs want as it will take away their comfort zone, hence the resistance and so the need for persistence.
ernie 21st January 2019 at 14:56
11 0 Rate This
Bill1903, I also find the whole TIAR, Going for 55 stuff completely irrelevant
………………….
We all do, but it was a ploy to get the bears on board and for charles Green to claim it was the same club.
Anyway they already reached 55 if you believe Ally.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1084933748938981376?p=v
I love these comments though.
62. yes i fell off my chair.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1086374752216891398?p=v
Upthehoops.
I would have to check the latest rules but there is a points deduction for entering administration.
The principle behind points deduction is that a club cannot benefit in sporting terms from paying money to players it should have paid to creditors, especially if all other clubs were paying creditors what is owed at expense of footballer quality.
Of course we can never rule out a Brysonesque interpretation that says as long as the administration is unnoticed then until it is, the club going into administration is eligible to keep the points until an administration event takes place.
That is as absurd as the ruling on player eligibility so it could happen again if rules aren't clear.
Bill1903 21st January 2019 at 08:59
Ten in a row means absolutely nothing to me or fans outside of Celtic and Rangers.
==============================================================
Have you taken some form of poll on this, if so was it limited just to the team you support or was it across supporters of all of the other teams in Scotland.
As a Celtic supporter I can say that it means nothing to me either. I'm not speaking for all Celtic supporters obviously, just me. It would be arrogant to think that 8 in a row is a given, never mind 9 or 10.
However as Celtic have won the league cup, are top of the league and still competing in the Scottish cup a treble treble is starting to look like a possibility. Albeit still quite a small one.
Homunculus 21st January 2019 at 19:19
However as Celtic have won the league cup, are top of the league and still competing in the Scottish cup and still in europe,a treble treble is starting to look like a possibility. Albeit still quite a small one.
ernie 21st January 2019 at 14:56
Bill1903, I also find the whole TIAR, Going for 55 stuff completely irrelevant but acknowledge that it is about "big two" bragging rights. It has, however, gotten out of hand throughout modern day football though with a huge sense of entitlement from the "supporters" of the "big" clubs.
=====================
Ernie, it may surprise you to know that many Celtic fans like myself who were born in the 1960's and early 70's perhaps don't quite have the sense of entitlement you refer to. Sure, we grew up as kids knowing little else other than the heady days under Jock Stein, but then Rangers managed a couple of titles under Jock Wallace, then of course there was the great Aberdeen and Dundee Utd teams and all that they achieved. Celtic still won a right few titles, but they had to work hard for them. All changed when Rangers from 1986 onwards exploited their cultural power within Scottish society to financially dope their way to success. By and large through that period we suffered as Celtic fans and sometimes were not even second. We know what it's like to suffer and appreciate all we get, and yes of course ten in a row would be great, but no-one thinks they are entitled to it. For me it would be real justice for how my club was treated by the media and the Bank of Scotland throughout the Murray years, but it will have to be earned. As for a team other than Celtic or TRFC winning the league, what a remarkable achievement that would be, and it would certainly be well earned.
https://twitter.com/chrisbr2411/status/1087433952577630208?s=21
This tweet is suggesting that Cowdenbeath cup game was called off after 5pm and the Rangers team bus hadn’t departed for the game by that time. There was some discussion on here about the call off being out with the timing rules but I don’t recall any chat around whether the team bus was warmed up and ready to roll? Pre-planned ? No discussion on Clyde SSB but no surprise there.
Well, with all the corruption we have observed regarding the SFA, RFC and now TRFC in recent years…
ANY reasonable person would have to regard any 'non-standard' behaviour involving TRFC and the SFA as corrupt.
Until proved otherwise.
Because the SFA is most definitely not 'Respected and Trusted to Lead',
…by anyone.
Another tax dodger reaches a favourable (
) settlement.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46957605
Just the €18.8m fine and a 23 month jail sentence (which will be served on probation).
Ronaldo is probably more bothered about the risk to his lifetime NIKE deal, than his criminal conviction.
Greedy bar steward.
And Nice – allegedly – looking to bid £8M for Morelos ?!
Bloody chancers.
Hope Traynor gets to tell them;
"Nice…non!",
whilst simultaneously showing them the verbal offer(s) from several Chinese clubs for megamillions.
And the bears will be growling with discontent if Morelos leaves ‘on the cheap’, IMO.
StevieBC 22nd January 2019 at 11:00
'…And the bears will be growling with discontent if Morelos leaves ‘on the cheap’, IMO.'
++++++++++++++++++++++
I do not assert as an absolute statement of fact that Morelos is a dirty wee sports cheat.
I do assert that it is my opinion that he is the kind of cheating 'sportsman' that most of us despise.
The kind of guy who ,when we were kids playing football in the streets of Parkhead or Govan or in Dunfermline or Aberdeen or Dundee or wherever, would be told 'no' when he asked for a game.
The kind of guy, brim-full of talent, who still felt that he needed to cheat, and shout the odds about being fouled when he had tripped over the edge of the pavement, or it was a penalty, or that the ba' never went by the post(somebody's jaiket) ,or it was over the (non-existent) bar that was assumed to be there at an appropriate height, and so on:
and was temperamentally a bit unsound and unpredictable behaviourally , and an all-round general pain in the ar.e that people could not actually be bothered with, talented as he may have been.
Gerrard is duty bound to talk him up, and will be under instruction to play hard to get, because RIFC plc needs money now.
But, of course, every club in Europe knows the parlous state of TRFCs finances. It is a buyers market, not a sellers' one.
Talented as Morelos may be, he may very well be seen as liability that a club desperate for cash is trying to dump for as much as it can.
And his market value may be accordingly at an appropriate level.
But what do I know?
I've been trying to follow the updates in the disappearance of the plane that Sala was travelling in on his way to his new club, Cardiff City.
Things do not look good.
I hope that he , and his pilot and any others in the Piper may be found and rescued.
And, of course, I would hope that even my most disliked sports person, let alone Sala, would be found safe and well!
As the Cardiff guy said, there are perspectives, and football is a mere trifle in the grand scheme of things, and very far down in the list of important human things.
https://twitter.com/the_tman10/status/1087760755448037376?s=21
Could this be the shape of things to come?
Ex Ludo 22nd January 2019 at 19:38
0 0 Rate This
https://twitter.com/the_tman10/status/1087760755448037376?s=21
Could this be the shape of things to come?
……………………
The SFA would come out with some made up rule that they have to fight the case with fans money,sponsorship money and grants.
So instead of this money being dished out to the clubs, it now goes to fight court cases.Every civil suit raised takes money away from your club Banner headline.
John Clark 22nd January 2019 at 14:04
"The kind of guy who ,when we were kids playing football in the streets of Parkhead or Govan or in Dunfermline or Aberdeen or Dundee or wherever, would be told 'no' when he asked for a game."
John, of all your many posts, I can't remember one which encapsulates everything we love (and hate) about football better than this one.
I can just see him crawling home to his maw.
You are a star..
Ex Ludo 22nd January 2019 at 19:38
https://twitter.com/the_tman10/status/1087760755448037376?s=21 Could this be the shape of things to come?
=========
Only in America…?
IMO, if the SFA operated in the States it would have been classified as a criminal organisation a long time ago.
Yet the Hampden numpties regard themselves as pillars of Scottish society.
I watched a game the other day where Waghorn(pen) was playing.
At that level he looked a hard working, useful player.
However, what was most noticeable was the absence of any hint of the over physical stuff for which he was best known at Ibrox.
You can take a choice of whether his new manager has taken that out of his game or it was a side of his game he was encouraged to use at his previous club ; like Cousin, Hateley and Morelos.
When questioned about Alfredo's "commitment", his manager said that he "plays on the edge and you don't want to take that from his game."
In my honest opinion, he plays, not on the edge, but over the top, to a place where rules don't exist.
ThomtheThim@00.14
And dare I say that Scottish referees have their own interpretation of the rules and do their level best to look after the players in one particular team. Waghorn (pen) no longer has that insurance policy.
StevieBC 22nd January 2019 at 21:09
Yet the Hampden numpties regard themselves as pillars of Scottish society.
Custodians of the tradition – if it's not broken , don't fix it . And if it is , gerrymander it . And if all else fails , stay staunch , stand shoulder to shoulder , and defy your opponents to make the first move . Then pour opprobrium in their direction for being uppity and not one of us , if they do . Repeat ad finitum .
https://twitter.com/lfmunro/status/1087808299553177602?s=21
Someone isn’t very happy at his work. The spin on this should be interesting.
StevieBC 22nd January 2019 at 21:09
Yet the Hampden numpties regard themselves as pillars of Scottish society.
============================
There is a certain type of person within Scottish society who consider themselves as pillars of that society. From my experience they normally come from a long line of 'pillars', and support a certain football club, however their status as 'pillars' is appointed from within that group, and no actual achievements or deeds for the greater good have to be carried out. It's just that something magical happens to them one night behind closed doors which makes them better than the rest of us. They then get together to ensure mutual self advancement because the rest of us don't really understand it's for our own greater good, even if it's to our detriment.
Perhaps to show how this mindset works, I should remind you all of an article published on the Rangers Standard website a few years back. This was written by an ex-Editor of the Glasgow Herald when it was a very successful newspaper back in the day. It was often accused of anti-Catholic policies at the time. Perhaps views such as this are why.
 
https://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/rfc-politics/136-rangers-protestantism-and-scottish-society
upthehoops 23rd January 2019 at 08:14
UTH I actually woke my manager up there reading that 'article' because my jaw hit the desk.
borderman67 23rd January 2019 at 08:45
UTH I actually woke my manager up there reading that 'article' because my jaw hit the desk.
========================
Indeed, what a mindset. Football rivalry is fine and there would be no game without it. However this type of self appointed supremacy exists in a world long gone, and for the better too, although I’m not too sure it’s eliminated within Scottish football governance.
UTH@08.14
Harry Reid’s article reeks of entitlement and points the finger of blame for the demise of Rangers (IL) squarely at Craig White. That he completely ignores the policies of David Murray speaks volumes. The implication is that he considers David Murray to be the right sort of Protestant leader/businessman to lead Rangers but perhaps not on his own. Harry Reid became editor of the Herald in 1997 having previously held senior positions with other publications and I don’t remember any editorials criticising how Rangers were being run at that time. It was only when the wheels were coming off that he was moved to comment.
Ex Ludo23rd January 2019 at 10:03
=============
Reid's article is in my view despicable. It definitely smacks of him believing Catholics are socially and morally inferior. A view which appeals to a significant section of Rangers fans. I have no doubt if challenged his response would be '…some of my best friends blah blah blah'
The bottom line is the superior race in his view did not save Rangers. I can only conclude they all stood back thinking a higher authority would prevent it. Some humility on their part might have made things different. Just like Fergus McCann did with Celtic. Perhaps it's better to know you are absolutely fighting your own battle with higher authorities working against you just as McCann did. It didn't work out too bad for him or Celtic.
“The board will have the final say. They will probably ask me and I’ll say either yes or no in my opinion. But the board own the club. Dave King owns it so he’ll have the final say.”
Steven Gerrard being quoted in the Herald online. Two images are used to support the article but strangely not the image showing Morelos squaring up to his manager.
upthehoops 23rd January 2019 at 10:17
'…It definitely smacks of him believing Catholics are socially and morally inferior.'
+++++++++++++++
There is one historical certainty,uth, and that is that the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in, I think, 1929, discussed and agreed a 'deliverance' to the effect that Irish Catholic immigrants were not welcome in Scotland and that Government should do something about it.[ In recent times, of course, a subsequent General Assembly expressed regret and apologised ]
There is one present day certainty, as well. If we look at Harry Reid's statement where he says:
"…….The implication, although it was never spelt out, was that there was in the Protestant community something that might have been lacking in the Catholic community"
and substitute for 'the Catholic community' any of the following : the Chinese community, the Pakistani Community, the Sikh community, the Jewish community, the Greek, French, African, Australian… community, then Harry Reid as editor of the 'Herald' would simply not have allowed that statement to appear in print.
He would have been too feart!
Basically, such an observation if made in 2012 would in all probability be in breach not only of the law of the land but of common sense and world-wide reality!
If Harry is still alive and well ( I hope he is) he must blush with shame as being seen to be someone who has racist/ religiously bigoted tendencies, or with professional embarrassment that he made such a balls of expressing what he really was trying to say.
He is no theologian, is Harry. Nor is he a good communicator, for a newspaper editor!
I dismissed the article as meaningless pap at the time, except in so far as it 'Heralded' a readiness in the SMSM to abandon truthful reporting of the 'saga' and support the Big Lie.
Perhaps those prominent, successful and highly moral supporters to whom Mr. Reid alludes, knew exactly what a morally corrupt organisation RFC were and had no intention of sullying their reputations by association.
At no point does he mention the cement that bonds those high achievers, i.e., Freemasonry.
Ex Ludo 23rd January 2019 at 10:17
'…Steven Gerrard being quoted in the Herald online. Two images are used to support the article but strangely not the image showing Morelos squaring up to his manager.'
I refer you , Ex Ludo, to my post of 12.30 (your UK time, 22.30 here).
Harry Reid is no longer there at the 'Herald', but of course the very spirit, the very essence of Harry Reidness that cannot be allowed to die (like Harry's football club) is alive and kicking as strongly as Morelos kicks balls.
Impartial reporting ? The 'Herald' long, long, ago abandoned the very idea, when RFC of 1872 was Liquidated and ceased to exist as a participant in Scottish Professional football.
In the same way, of course, as BBC Radio Scotland, that you and I pay for, abandoned any attempt to report the truth and nothing but the truth on the ‘saga’, and happily accepted without question the dastardly and brazen lie that a football club that was liquidated could possibly be still participating in Scottish football!
JC@13.15
All noted JC.
The article from which I quoted from in a post at 10.17 waxes lyrical about the “interest” in Morelos from other clubs and rather risibly mentions the Chinese bid from last year which was widely discredited at the time. Standards eh?
@videocelts Fancy that, so Don Robertson viewed the incident, issued a second yellow and has now been told he got the decision wrong. Never mind Don another match fee to collect at Rugby Park tonight. Quote Tweet St Mirren FC @saintmirrenfc We are pleased to confirm that we have successfully appealed Brad Lyons' second booking against Alloa on Saturday. That means the midfielder will be available for selection in our Fifth Round William Hill @ScottishCup tie against Dundee United. 1:33 PM · Jan 23,
ThomTheThim 23rd January 2019 at 13:00
'…At no point does he mention the cement that bonds those high achievers, '
++++++++++++++
I think that Reid's point was that the bond that he thought ought to have been there in terms of shared religion in so far as his 'Rangers' was concerned was somehow an expression of true Protestantism and had been weakened.
He clearly posited the idea that support of Rangers of 1872 was an expression of religious faith, and that any true Protestant ought of religious necessity save that football club.
But, of course, in saying that, he contradicts himself.
The 'Protestant work ethic' certainly includes a readiness to look after one's money!
And for him to castigate the wealthy Rangers of 1872 supporters for not coming to save the ruins that SDM created is just stupid, in a way that those wealthy men are not.
Freemasons or not, dyed-in-the -wool Protestants or not, the guys with the money were not going to buy a club with a multi-million tax debt, and let the arch-cheat of a knight off the hook.
Re Morelos
According to to-day's Times , Paul Forsyth's main article on the back page mentions the "bid" for Morelos from Nice who are "reported to have lined up a bid of £8m" – contributor on KDS , Corsica makes the comment that there is no mention anywhere in the French sports papers of Nice' interest in Morelos – now this is a situation that requires previous special investigative talents to resolve the mystery – Kheridine over to you (& I don't care if he is in Australia) .
What are the odds on a King share offer being made on Friday – I can see a request for more time coming – "I want to make the offer but the SA authorities are holding me back" for more can – kicking
Morelos update
Breaking on twitter this afternoon Marselle have signed Balotelli on loan from Nice for rest of the season – this leaves a gap to be filled by the buffalo ?
naegreetin 23rd January 2019 at 15:04
What are the odds on a King share offer being made on Friday – I can see a request for more time coming – "I want to make the offer but the SA authorities are holding me back" for more can – kicking
=====================
It is clear by now a Scottish court is never going to take significant action against him anyway.
Reid's article comes as no surprise to me. This attitude epitomizes the watp mentality across the board with all fans of any Ibrox club, past or present. Newspaper's in Scotland have always had protestants in senior positions (very few catholics were employed in newspapers in the past to be honest). Succulent lamb was a mild term to portray the press in this country. The SFA always until recentely had ex RFC (IL) in senior positions to aid Ibrox club. Imagine refs in this country had to state their club alleigence, their religion and if they were in the freemasons. I rightly said imagine as this would never happen and IMO we all know why. I grew up with paranoia and with good reason. This new club are classed as the old club by smsm and IMO the SFA. This one example sums up my f****** paranoia.
upthehoops 23rd January 2019 at 08:14
Perhaps to show how this mindset works, I should remind you all of an article published on the Rangers Standard website a few years back. This was written by an ex-Editor of the Glasgow Herald when it was a very successful newspaper back in the day. It was often accused of anti-Catholic policies at the time. Perhaps views such as this are why.
……………….
At first i thought it was one of those articles that you read, and you can’t really believe what you are reading. But later you learn it is one of those thing’s that if you take the first letter at the beginning of each line it spells out something like Stupid gullible Basards or something.
But alas this is not one of those articles unless Efmu is a word.
This article is but a look in to the mindset of a bye gone age.A hope that everything you have been told and everything that is drilled into you, and everything that you hope to be true has eroded through time and is not now the way you expected it to be
The article reads more like a rallying cry for help.As his world has not turned out how it was meant to be
I just hope that same year Mr Reid never found out the tooth fairy was not real.
All his hopes and dreams dashed in one fell swoop.
The Morelos situation is interesting.
On the one hand, it would appear that any club which comes in with a 'decent' offer for him will have its hand bitten off.
But, regardless of what anyone thinks about Morelos' ability or sportsmanship, he does seem to have become a talisman for TRFC's 'resurgence'.
If King is 'all in' this season to stop 10IAR, then he should probably keep Morelos.
To lose him in January – followed by a couple of poor results – could have a significant impact on morale at Ibrox, and the bears might start growling, again.
Or mibbees Morelos is just as petulant off the pitch too – and will 'engineer' his own exit now?
Who knows, his head could have been turned already by those lucrative Chinese whispers… I mean Chinese offers.
IMO, if he goes in January it will be Killie who could be challenging for top spot in the SPL in April.
Which would actually be great for Scottish football – and a welcome development for the vast majority of non-TRFC fans.
naegreetin 23rd January 2019 at 15:28
On twitter,"
Nice-MatinVerified account @Nice_Matin 4 hours ago
". L'#OGCN [Olympique Gymnaste Club Nice] aurait fait une offre de 10 millions d'euros pour l'attaquant des Rangers Alfredo Morelos, refusée par le club écossais."
"refusee"?
Sacre Bleu! / Sacre Blue!
Very interesting…
StevieBC 23rd January 2019 at 22:53
Sacre Bleu! / Sacre Blue!
Very interesting…"
_______________________
The trouble these days is that newspapers piggy-back off each other.
The DR gave no authentic source for its 'exclusive' about the supposed offer and refusal, and Nice-Matin give no source either.
The SMSM won't be the only media mob who sit on their ar.es and trawl the net for 'reports' they can cut and paste for a few quid.
I haven't found anything about Morelos on the Nice club web-page .
Morelos sale mebbe aye mebbe naw?
It would appear that any money deposited in a UK jurisdiction would need to be done so with adequately provenanced funds…..Quite a substantial amount.
It will also need to be King's own funds, as the escrow pertains to the PLC take-over. Sucking it out of Sevco will not pass muster regarding provenance.
Any funds garnered from punting Morelos would be of no benefit to the PLC, but could quite easily be used by the board of the club to reduce its indebtedness to the PLC, club directors, or others owed.
Fake offers or not, I don't see any gain for Morelos being punted. . Not without an out-ball…. Fielding an unaffordable team appears to be the only strategy in place.
Just saying.
https://twitter.com/bunbegb/status/1088194668377051138?s=21
Senor Morelos was the subject of some chat on here yesterday. I’ve just come across this on Twitter. I’m not sure if he was booked but no doubt it will be rescinded anyway.
Ex Ludo 24th January 2019 at 01:07
Only two hands, no foul.
When I first watched that I hadn't expanded the picture and I though he'd taken some ludicrous dive and was claiming a penalty. Well he did take an almighty dive…and might have got a penalty if he hadn't mistaken the ball for Scott Brown's head!
Corrupt official 24th January 2019 at 00:53
Fielding an unaffordable team appears to be the only strategy in place.
…………………..
And it’s not working.Second to joint fourth.
……………………
StevieBC 23rd January 2019 at 18:43
IMO, if he goes in January it will be Killie who could be challenging for top spot in the SPL in April.
Which would actually be great for Scottish football – and a welcome development for the vast majority of non-TRFC fans.
…………………….
And the vast majority of TRFC fans could become killie fans soon if it look’s like killie have a better chance to stop the eight.
………….
…………
if he goes in January …can’t see it happening, no one put an offer in after all the media hype last time.And i can’t see anyone putting in an offer, that the ibrox club are asking for
JC@22.45 23 Jan 2019
Re Morelos
Well found ! Interesting position now for The Rangers (especially so after last night's result) – whatever the outcome SG's position has become noticeably more precarious .