Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?

ByElijah Baley

Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?

I am privileged to have the chance to post a “guest” article on TSFM. As we get used to the lights being turned out, even temporarily, on RTC, we have a new forum for analysing the various issues which concern supporters of Scottish football.

It is undoubtedly the case that most of these issues involve the Rangers FC, either directly or indirectly, together with their interaction with the governing bodies of Scottish football.

One of the matters mentioned on “The List” page here is the Nimmo Smith report. I try to answer the question about what happened to it below, and note the relevance its apparent disappearance has for the soon to convene SPL Independent Commission.

I would encourage anyone who wants to do so to contribute posts for publication to TSFM.

RTC created from nothing a vibrant community looking at serious and complex issues of finance, law and corporate governance with a huge range of expertise, and not a little humour. TSFM can build on that legacy for the good of football in Scotland, and hopefully to the betterment of our media.

Whatever Happened to the Nimmo Smith Report?

On 21st February 2012 the SFA announced that it had appointed retired judge Lord Nimmo Smith to chair an independent inquiry into Rangers FC. His panel comprised Professor Niall Lothian, Past President of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland; Bob Downes, former Director of BT and now Deputy Chairman of the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency, and Stewart Regan, CEO of the SFA.

The Inquiry was commissioned to investigate the potential breach of a number of SFA Articles of Association and to present its findings to the SFA Board within two weeks. Article 62.2 (q) of the SFA Articles of Association allows the SFA Board to appoint “a commission … to attend to and/or determine any matter(s) referred to it by the Board.”

Stewart Regan was quoted saying: “I am delighted Lord Nimmo Smith has agreed to Chair the Independent Inquiry. I am certain the experience contained within the panel will enable us to achieve more clarity on the situation regarding Rangers FC. There will be no further comment on the investigation until it is complete and its findings presented to the Board.”

One wonders about the use of the word “independent”, bearing in mind that one of the members was the CEO of the commissioning body, and on the Board which would consider it once prepared.

On 2nd March Mr Regan had more to say, although the investigation was not yet complete.

“We are now in the final stages of our independent inquiry into the situation concerning Rangers FC. The report by The Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith is expected to be completed next week and will go to a Special Board Meeting for consideration. It would be inappropriate to make any further comment at this stage in relation to the details gleaned from the inquiry, the potential contents of the report or any possible sanctions.

On 8th March the Special Board Meeting took place to consider the Nimmo Smith Report. Mr Regan commented:-

“I can confirm that the Scottish FA convened a Special Board Meeting at Hampden Park today to discuss the findings of the Independent Inquiry into Rangers FC, prepared by the Chair, The Right Honourable Lord William Nimmo Smith. 

“Principally, it is the belief of the Board, taking into account the prima facie evidence presented today, that Mr Craig Whyte is not considered to be a Fit and Proper person to hold a position within Association Football.

“The report submitted by Lord Nimmo Smith, having been considered fully by the Board, highlights a number of other potential rule breaches by the club and its owner. The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.

As such, the report’s contents will not be published at this time. Nevertheless, I can confirm that the club is facing a charge of bringing the game into disrepute.”

On 24th April Mr Regan, following the verdict of the Judicial Panel, said the following:-

“It was entirely right that the original inquiry into Rangers FC and Craig Whyte was conducted independently and chaired by the Right Honourable Lord Nimmo Smith. These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal, who returned their verdict last night.”

That all seems clear. Lord Nimmo Smith, with the help of distinguished people like Mr Regan, carried out a quick but thorough investigation, and the results were put to the Judicial Panel for consideration.

However Gary Allan QC, who chaired the Panel, made the following comment on page 59 of the Panel’s written decision.

“It is remarkable that throughout the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal Process there has been repeated, and regrettably wholly misconceived reference to the Report of Lord Nimmo Smith. For the avoidance of any doubt, the Judicial Panel hearing this disciplinary matter was at no time presented with the report, as evidence or otherwise, nor was it presented with any of its findings. No member of the Tribunal has had sight of it. The report was not mentioned by any party at any time in the course of the proceedings. The determinations which were reached, therefore, were reached entirely independently of any view at which any other person, however senior or eminent, may have arrived in fulfilment of his remit prior to the disciplinary hearing.”

How can the Chair of the Panel deny having seen a document which, according to one of the people who sat on the independent committee, was presented to them?

The answer is two-fold.

Firstly, at pages 2 to 3 of the Judicial Panel decision, the procedural nuts and bolts of the case are discussed:-

“The Tribunal … directed that … it would proceed to hear the evidence and submissions and proceed to Determinations in relation to the complaints against both Rangers FC and Mr Whyte.

The Tribunal … noted that … it would proceed on the basis that there was an absolute denial on (Mr Whyte’s) part of each element of the alleged breach of the rules in all its particulars.

The Tribunal directed that accordingly, and notwithstanding the fact that in its written responses Rangers FC in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules, … the Tribunal would require to establish a clear factual basis for its Determination of both any alleged breaches and, if applicable, any sanction against either or both Rangers FC or Mr Whyte. … The commission and the circumstances of the alleged breaches would therefore require to be established by the leading of evidence before the Tribunal …

A discussion in relation to the procedure to be adopted took place. It was agreed that the Compliance Officer Mr Lunny would lead evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material but would lead no witnesses, and would invite the Tribunal to accept the evidence in that form as provided in the Judicial Panel Protocol. Mr McLaughlin for Rangers FC, standing its position on the complaints contained in the written response previously submitted had neither issues with that proposal nor any other objection to the procedure which would be adopted. An opportunity would then be afforded to Rangers FC to lead evidence and make submissions as Mr McLaughlin on its behalf saw fit. Mr McLaughlin intimated that he would be likely to lead evidence from four witnesses previously intimated to the Compliance Officer and the Tribunal in terms of the Judicial Panel Protocol.”

At the hearing the positions of Rangers FC and of Mr Whyte were totally at odds. Mr Whyte did not appear nor lodge any substantive reply. He denied everything. On the other hand, Rangers FC “in substantial measure admitted the factual averments and a number of the alleged breaches of the rules”. As the Panel determined, they needed to be satisfied of the right verdict based on the evidence, but as the “prosecution case” was generally admitted, there was less rigour about this than if, for example, Mr Whyte had attended and denied the charges.

If Mr Whyte had appeared to deny the allegations, or if Rangers FC had disputed them, then evidence would have had to come from witnesses, who could have been cross-examined. In that event it would not have been sufficient to present the Nimmo Smith report, because, for all his experience, expertise and eminence, he is not guaranteed to be infallible.

One important principle in judicial and quasi-judicial procedure is the “Best Evidence rule”. If possible, original documents should be produced, rather than copies. Items of physical evidence should be brought to the court, rather than photographs of it. Witnesses should give evidence rather than having witness statements provided to the hearing.

This, I think, provides part of the explanation for the apparently mysterious absence of the Nimmo Smith Report.

The facts of the case had been admitted by the only party who attended the hearing, namely Rangers FC. Therefore Mr Lunny led “evidence ex parte by submission and reference to documentary material”. The Panel made 108 separate “findings in fact” derived from the evidence he put forward and that of Rangers FC.

Where Lord Nimmo Smith’s committee had, for example, analysed documents and offered a conclusion upon their import, the documents would be evidence but His Lordship’s conclusion would not. Similarly where a witness had been interviewed by the Nimmo Smith commission, or provided a statement, the former judge’s views on that would not be evidence, but the witness statement would be.

Mr Lunny, the Compliance Officer, was acting as prosecutor. Effectively Lord Nimmo Smith played the role of a senior detective co-ordinating an investigation, but not actually obtaining any evidence himself. In a criminal trial, where the officer in charge of the investigation has taken no part in the accumulation of the evidence, then their relevance as a witness is very small at best. It is up to the judge or the jury to decide what the totality of evidence means as far as guilt or innocence is concerned.

Therefore whilst I am sure that Lord Nimmo Smith’s report was on Mr Lunny’s table as he went through his presentation, ticking off the relevant parts as he led the primary evidence, the Report itself was not “relevant” evidence for the Panel. It is likely that, in discussion prior to the hearing, Mr Lunny and the solicitor for Rangers FC agreed whether the Nimmo Smith report would be used or not.

Mr Regan said prior to the Panel sitting The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol. The presentation of the case of course was independent of him, and whilst the Report would have formed the basis for the charges laid against Rangers FC and Mr Whyte, it was not evidence itself, as agreed between the parties.

The second aspect which accords with this explanation is the precise phrase used by Mr Regan. He said, after the decision, These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal.”

He did not say that the report was presented, rather that the findings were. As the findings would form the basis for the “charges” admitted by Rangers FC, then to that extent the Nimmo Smith report played a part in the proceedings.

This issue has relevance now for the forthcoming SPL proceedings involving player payments and registrations which might have broken the rules. To great clamour and consternation from Ibrox direction, Harper MacLeod, the widely respected and highly rated form of solicitors, have carried out an investigation for the SPL into Rangers FC.

Mr Green has made clear that, as far as possible, the case will be fought, and no past titles will be stripped if he can do anything about it. Expect calls for the Harper MacLeod report to be produced.

However, it is in exactly the same position as the Nimmo Smith report was, except this time the accused is not accepting guilt. In that case, the relevant documents and witnesses will need to attend for scrutiny and examination.

On the basis that the First Tier Tax Tribunal, which looked at different but related issues, took many days to conclude, it is highly likely that the SPL case will not have a quick conclusion.

As a final aside, I must compliment Mr Green. All of the media speculation about punishment in the event that the independent commission find guilt on the part of Rangers repeats the mantra from Ibrox that the most severe penalty, namely stripping of titles, is the aim of the SPL.

I suspect that the SPL might believe that too now, on the basis that something which the club and the fans oppose so vigorously must be a draconian penalty.

But, of all of the various penalties listed, stripping titles would not cost the Rangers FC a single penny. The issue has already seen the supporters unite behind their team. Even if the commission finds the case proven, and as a result Rangers lose some of their historic titles, this will be seen by the Ibrox faithful as yet more treachery by the football authorities. Bearing in mind that the SPL rules allow various penalties, including the power to expel the club, impose unlimited fines and place a registration embargo on the club, altering the history books is the best thing for Rangers as a business, rather than a penalty which affects them just now.

Posted by Paul McConville – www.scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com

About the author

Elijah Baley subscriber

1,330 Comments so far

FIFAPosted on7:56 am - Aug 15, 2012


The line of expectation is and always will be an imaginary one ,I think CG was looking at a water line.

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Paul McConvillePosted on8:15 am - Aug 15, 2012


Last week, Sir David Murray emerged from his bunker to issue a statement via the Press Association. RTC commented in detail regarding elements of the statement here on the Scottish Football Monitor.

I think the statement is a masterpiece in answering charges that have not been made, and accusations not been laid. It also includes a statement which, whilst not original, might be seen as the epitaph for the demise of Sir David’s Rangers – “Tax AVOIDANCE is a right.”

Sir David also risks offending even further the fans of his former team by referring the “new” Rangers and “Rangers Football Club” rather than “The Rangers Football Club”.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/tax-avoidance-is-a-right-proclaims-sir-david-murray-no-its-not-is-reply/

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mechyfitterPosted on8:16 am - Aug 15, 2012


I read that Portsmouth had to release all of their senior players to avoid liquidation,and in the cup match against Plymouth Argyll the team was made of teenagers,and one 23 year old,with a 15 y.o on the bench……Now what happened at rfc ????
Sfa,sfl,spl,a total disgrace.

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tomtomPosted on8:17 am - Aug 15, 2012


FIFA says:
August 15, 2012 at 07:56
1 1 Rate This
The line of expectation is and always will be an imaginary one ,I think CG was looking at a water line
——————————————————

If it was a water line it’ll soon be above his head 😀

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saskya1888Posted on8:34 am - Aug 15, 2012


First time post so be gentle! (First post on a forum -EVER )
I haven’t seen it mentioned on here and can’t quite understand that if The Ranger’s 2012 or whatever they are called “own” the history and titles etc…why did Charles state that they have cannot show the matches on the website as they do not own the rights to them? How can they be entitled to “own” the rewards but are not by law entitled to “own” the actual winning of the rewards? Not worded very well but hopefully someone can get the gist and explain the reasoning of this to me.

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Don JohnPosted on8:37 am - Aug 15, 2012


A couple of connected thoughts.

First up, I always thought that a Newco golden parachute into the SPL or SFL1 would destroy Scottish football by totally alienating the fan base so that teams would be playing to empty stadiums. A few months ago most of thought that Newco to SPL3 was an acceptable outcome. That has now happened, but the beast has not been slain, the MSM, fans of the defunct Rangers and the authorities are all treating the Newco as an apparently seamless continuation of the Oldco. So my question is where does it stop? When does the preferential treatment of a football club formed a few weeks ago, with no previous history in Scottish football, start to alienate Scottish fans to the point we are back to the golden parachute scenario?

Second question is one for those with stomachs strong enough to spend time on the laptop loyal chat groups. Is there any evidence of any resistance to Green’s Sevgers? Is there a faction amongst their support that does not accept that TRFC is a direct reincarnation of RFC(IA/IL)? Or has any thought of that died a death with Bomber’s deafening silence?

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greengrassPosted on8:56 am - Aug 15, 2012


dundee utd statement… http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=4286&cd=2012&cd1=8

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stevensanphPosted on9:00 am - Aug 15, 2012


Don John says:
August 15, 2012 at 08:37

Second question is one for those with stomachs strong enough to spend time on the laptop loyal chat groups. Is there any evidence of any resistance to Green’s Sevgers? Is there a faction amongst their support that does not accept that TRFC is a direct reincarnation of RFC(IA/IL)? Or has any thought of that died a death with Bomber’s deafening silence?
—-

I posted a few days ago about a thread discussing an article I wrote asking how sevco were affording Sandaza. The article was being ridiculed with blatantly false information (such as people claiming Ashley had paid 10m and that they had sold 40,000 season tickets at an average of 400gbp). I was also being accused of being a celtic fan. I challenged the responses with a response just asking them to think about the questions I had asked.

The next poster, a Rangers fan, wrote something along the lines of ‘i know we don’t like what he is saying, but shouldn’t we at least be asking the questions? these numbers don’t look too good’.

When I checked back 5 minutes later the thread was deleted. Unfortunately, it seems the good Rangers fans are being shut out. FF and RM have, IMO not allowed anyone to deviate from the party line, which is the old club must continue unhindered. I have seen a number of posts from Rangers IA fans on here and on twitter who are horrified at what is happening – but they do not have a voice to be heard.

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stevensanphPosted on9:03 am - Aug 15, 2012


http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=4286&cd=2012#.UCtUQrkC2Hs.facebook

Dundee Utd have NOT been paid.

More lies from Ibrox…

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campsiejoePosted on9:04 am - Aug 15, 2012


greengrass @ 08:56

Charlie appears to be an even bigger liar than Tam Pepper
What an embarrassment he is

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redetinPosted on9:07 am - Aug 15, 2012


Clients of Pritchard Stockbrokers (Co Secretary Craig Whyte) are to get an interim payment via the special administrators.

http://tinyurl.com/bppcsx4

“Glasgow Rangers owner Craig Whyte was company secretary of Pritchard and is also director of Liberty Capital, a British Virgin Islands-based company which owns 10.8 per cent of Merchant House Group.”

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tomtomPosted on9:08 am - Aug 15, 2012


It’s almost like we’ve all been in a coma for a year and woke up to find out that Whyte has changed his name to Green but everything else is the same.

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campsiejoePosted on9:14 am - Aug 15, 2012


Charlie will no doubt issue a statement saying I have passed the money to the SFA, and it is up to them to pay the clubs
You just know this will be his defence
If this is the defence, I hope one of our super sleuths in the MSM will ask the SFA the relevant questions

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tomtomPosted on9:16 am - Aug 15, 2012


10,000 season tickets sold yesterday

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/francisco-sandaza-is-delighted-to-see-rangers-1261506

D C Thomson should just rename the Dandy and that would raise it’s circulation. If ever a newspaper deserved to close it’s the DR.

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tomtomPosted on9:24 am - Aug 15, 2012


So in the same edition we have,

25,000 season tickets already sold followed by a further 10,000 yesterday making a grand total of 30,000. I just wish my accountant could do this with my tax bill each year 😀

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-green-met-with-rangers-fans-1261517

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PaulmacPosted on9:32 am - Aug 15, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
August 15, 2012 at 00:39
17 0 i
Rate This
incredibleadamspark says:
August 15, 2012 at 00:31
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’ve known lots of Rangers fans down the years. I could count the bad ones on one hand.

The question is, if the decent fans are in the majority, why do they allow the knuckledraggers to set the agenda?

Why not try to do something about it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My cousin was a Rangers fan…I say was…because the very knucklegraggers drove him away…he married a girl I went to school with….and believe it or not the guys he went to school with refused to socialise with him or enter his house if she was at with him because she was of a certain faith…

It upset and angered him so much…he gave up football and emigrated to Australia…

We all lose when the good guys give up…

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stevensanphPosted on9:33 am - Aug 15, 2012


campsiejoe says:
August 15, 2012 at 09:14

Charlie will no doubt issue a statement saying I have passed the money to the SFA, and it is up to them to pay the clubs
You just know this will be his defence
—-
Charles Green speaking to STV 13th August:

“As of now, Rangers do not owe other Scottish clubs a penny,”

“It was frustrating to be informed by the SFA several days after they received the funds that they did not wish to be a ‘clearing house’ and in fact wanted us to settle the debts directly,” he said. “Arrangements were then put in place by the club.”

If this was his excuse, the hole would be getting very deep…

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/149333-rangers-settle-500000-debt-to-celtic-hearts-and-scottish-fa/

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SeniorPosted on9:33 am - Aug 15, 2012


Pinnochio, I thought he was Italian not from Yorkshire.

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RoddyPosted on9:35 am - Aug 15, 2012


I also noticed in that report that Sandaza’s on a VERY short contract…
““Hopefully I can have the same impact. I will try my best but Nacho was here for six years and I’m just here one week. ”

Apols, but EVERYthing printed in that rag needs to be treated as nonsense.

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arabest1Posted on9:38 am - Aug 15, 2012


Telling porkies about debt repayments, a dangerous policy of encouraging a siege mentality among the fans, extending (a very public) middle digit to the football authorities, and the rest of Scottish football fans and taxpayers………….fit and proper person? I think not!

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Hartsons CombPosted on9:41 am - Aug 15, 2012


Interesting to see that Chuckie’s latest lie is immediately being spun on RM as all being the fault of the SFA (you know, that den of agenda-toting big0ts).

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campsiejoePosted on9:45 am - Aug 15, 2012


stevensanph @ 09:33

Thank you for that
My speculation about a defence is obviously way off, as what he says is unambiguous
So he has been caught telling porkies

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PaulmacPosted on9:47 am - Aug 15, 2012


I had the misfortune to listen to talksport on Monday lunchtime….Keys..Gray and BFDJ where disussing SEVCO UTD in a lovefest sort of a way…it was giving me the dry boak!

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accies80(Harri159)Posted on9:47 am - Aug 15, 2012


Don’t click on any links to the Record, they make money from it.

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Carl31Posted on10:03 am - Aug 15, 2012


Speculation…
When CG’s The Rangers fails – whether CG takes money and runs or whether he ends up with nothing (administration and maybe liquidation of The Rangers) what will then happen.
He/the managing agent or administrator would look for a buyer. They do so with much less time than D&P had – many redundancies are required. Its much more likely that another Rangers simply would not be able to arise from the current incarnation.

Importantly, it looks like they wouldnt fulfil fixtures.
Would there be a case to be made for a regulatory body (SFA/SFL) or the Government stepping in with enough support to see them fulfil fixtures.?
I’m thinking of a model that sees all the higher paid players laid off and only the needed playing staff retained – low paid and youths.
How is the prohibition of Government support/intervention in football worded? Can some form of minimum assistance be allowed.

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briggsbhoyPosted on10:03 am - Aug 15, 2012


Re Greengrass at 08.58

What other Scottish Clubs were/are owed money ? CG has said (if I’m reading things correctly) that he tried to pay all debt via the SFA but as they didn’t want to be a clearing house they suggested he settle directly with each debtor. Giving CG some leeway this could have been difficult for him due to the newco banking set up hence his attempts to go via SFA. That said why make the statement until you know that funds have been received! Even provi chq would have cleared by now.
So going back to my opening line who else was owed money and what is the chance of getting a statement for each party involved similar to DUtd. Would Alex at C4 get an answer on this?

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ThereekPosted on10:14 am - Aug 15, 2012


The Glen says:
August 15, 2012 at 01:22
11 0 i
Rate This
incredibleadamspark says:
August 15, 2012 at 00:48

Lord Wobbly
I’ve known lots of Rangers fans down the years. I could count the bad ones on one hand.
The question is, if the decent fans are in the majority, why do they allow the knuckledraggers to set the agenda?

Why not try to do something about it?
————————————————————————————————————————-
I don’t know the answer to that mate. Maybe the club is the most important thing to the knuckledraggers so they get a bit aggressive about it if anyone challenges them.
———————————————————————————
I think that may well be the case.

I was thinking about taking my son (age 7) to Ibrox this season (30 years since I was last there) on the off chance that things have changed but, sadly, I think for a lot of the support things have only changed in as much that they are more galvanised towards their hatred of everyone else.

“Everyone hates us, and we don’t care”.

Why would you not care?
I think we will follow out Junior team for another few years, to see how things pan out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for the responses and also to Goosy @ 23.36.

In my original post @ 22.51 by “decent ones” I meant ‘decent voices’ not fans, people.Sorry if my poor wording caused any hurt.

My essential point is if we’re talking about a fight for the club’s soul there has to be two sides. Publicly all we hear is one side be it fans or people in leadership positions. They’re all saying ‘everyone hates us, we don’t care’. Without a counter voice things won’t change.

My pessimistic but, I think, realistic view is that the battle’s over, indeed did it ever get started ? I’ve asked the same question in the past a few times on RTC. Who is going to speak up for the decent followers ? Could be a fans rep, former player, celebrity fan, successful businessman – anyone who’ll stand up in public and attract support. No one has come forward and I think it’s now too late.

Would love to be proved wrong.

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PaulmacPosted on10:16 am - Aug 15, 2012


stevensanph says:
August 15, 2012 at 09:33
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The art of PR is to word play in such a way as to make a statement that if challenged could be viewed in different ways, but essentially make it appear the most obvious for fools to believe.

Now when Charlie says Rangers do not owe a penny…does he mean SEVCO or Rangers (IA)?

Charlie has admitted that the Hearts debt cannot be cleared until July 2013? All debts have been paid? £800k and they need a year to clear it? What funds are they working with?

The Scottish media will continue to listen and print without question or challenge…I believe CW is still working the strings..it has his MO all over it!

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StarofdavidPosted on10:20 am - Aug 15, 2012


David Murray stole why is he not in jail
Crag Whyte stole why is he not in jail

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DunderheidPosted on10:31 am - Aug 15, 2012


Starofdavid says:
August 15, 2012 at 10:20

Patience my son!

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Sugar DaddyPosted on10:34 am - Aug 15, 2012


Been away for a week on business but still the same old kack coming from Sevco. An “agenda against…” good grief, the only agenda CG is interested in is the cash for season books. Signed free agents only so far on <£5k p/w & will surely punt Boca, Goian and Edu before end of window.

All about the money, honey.

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Hoopy 7Posted on10:37 am - Aug 15, 2012


Well done Dundee United. Short sharp and to the point. If only other clubs and the SFA would adopt the same policy it would stop all the rumour, speculation and paranoia.

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DunderheidPosted on10:43 am - Aug 15, 2012


Hoopy 7 says:
August 15, 2012 at 10:37

Spot on.
It’s been been made abundantly clear to all clubs that their fans demand to be involved.
DU are clearly listening.
Any others?

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Fans Against CorruptionPosted on10:50 am - Aug 15, 2012


Where there’s Chuck, there’s crass…..

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coineanachantaighePosted on11:04 am - Aug 15, 2012


nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:12
Now that Besiktas are going to FIFA over McGregor, will they now start asking questions of the SFA, or as we expect do nothing about this attempt by TRFC aided by the SFA extorting money from clubs, for players TRFC have nothing to do with.
—————————————————————————————-
This is something I was going to post about. The SFA seem to be working to get money for TRFC – from guys like Naismith, Whitaker, Davis and so on by ignoring the law that makes them free agents and forcing them to go to FIFA to get playing permission (in the hopes that some clubs will pay something to avoid the hassle). Most of these clubs have of course refused to pay up but it really is a disgrace that the SFA are so complicit in helpping them try it on.

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bad capt madmanPosted on11:18 am - Aug 15, 2012


As stated previously, the five way agreement apparently has no timescale or deadline for payments by Sevco, nor any apparent sanctions for non payment now that Sevco are in the league. (Some agreement, maybe Regan’s next job will be a car salesman and if so point me in his direction).

Anyway my point is that now that financial armagedon is threatening those clubs owed money, they shouldn’t have to risk their owncollapse, so perhaps their only recourse now that the SFA has used up the football route, is through the courts.

The problem of course is which club will do it.

The Fifa involvement though is interesting. Maybe a few folk bricking it at Hampden.

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tic6709Posted on11:31 am - Aug 15, 2012


How the hell can you have a 5 way agreement about monies owed to Clubs,without the agreement of the clubs involved. If they need the money then they need the money.Sevco nor the SFA have any right to determine a feckin’ payment plan for a club that will not divulge who their backers are,or if they can guarantee they will last the season.

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Tyke BhoyPosted on11:41 am - Aug 15, 2012


Paulmac says:
August 15, 2012 at 10:16
Charlie has admitted that the Hearts debt cannot be cleared until July 2013? All debts have been paid? £800k and they need a year to clear it? What funds are they working with?
———————————————-
Is that not when the final instalment on Wallace Is due? Is he suggesting that they won’t pay early.or perhaps more likely can’t pay early? I don’t think Hearts would have included a penalty clause for early payment.

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NowoldandgrumpyPosted on11:44 am - Aug 15, 2012


It appears that there was only one portocabin yesterday. So maybe not everyone was there to buy an ST, as it would have been the same queue for the match day tickets.

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HirsutePursuitPosted on11:48 am - Aug 15, 2012


I would assume that the SFA have passed on the Davis transfer money to D&P (as per their articles) and told Charles to talk to them. If the SFA have not given the money to RFC(IA) and used it in any other way BDO will sue their arses.

If they have it, the Duffers cannot legally pass on RFC(IA) transfer money to Sevco OR the football creditors. That money will form part of the creditors pot for disbursement in the order prescribed in legislation.

I suspect that Charles has accounted for this money as the bulk of the settlement money.

I suspect his “alternative arrangements” were asking – or more likely, instructing – RFC(IA) to pay the football creditors from the Davis transfer fee.

I suspect D&P have told him to feck off.

I suspect Sevco will not pay the football creditors.

I suspect the SFA will have Sevco up for bringing the game into disrepute – for failing to keep their side of the 5-way agreement.

I suspect the recent rabble-rousing is Charles daring the SFA to do something about it.

Despite everything that has gone before (or maybe because of it), I suspect the SFA might just call his bluff!

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tomtomPosted on11:51 am - Aug 15, 2012


Nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 15, 2012 at 11:44

It appears that there was only one portocabin yesterday. So maybe not everyone was there to buy an ST, as it would have been the same queue for the match day tickets.
——————————————————
But the Daily Record said that 10,000 fans turned up yesterday. Must be one helluva sized portacabin inside 😀

Oh the fun we’re going to have with this over the next few weeks.

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Palacio67Posted on12:02 pm - Aug 15, 2012


I watched Greengrass on STV last night and was surprised by the ‘Queue’ outside. I passed by yesterday at 2pm on my way to a job in Brand St and only saw 2 young boys at the broomloan road side, none at all at the front of the ‘big hoose’ and a few at the hamburger stall at the other end.

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tomtomPosted on12:10 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Palacio67 says:
August 15, 2012 at 12:02

I watched Greengrass on STV last night and was surprised by the ‘Queue’ outside. I passed by yesterday at 2pm on my way to a job in Brand St and only saw 2 young boys at the broomloan road side, none at all at the front of the ‘big hoose’ and a few at the hamburger stall at the other end.
————————

Efficiency my man, efficiency. After this they’re going to Heathrow to sort out those lazy bassa’s at Border Control.

Tough on queue’s, tough on the cause of queue’s 😀

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bestdressedchickenPosted on12:11 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The unpaid debts..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19266049

Now if only Martin Conaghan would now pick up the phone to the other clubs mentioned and ask if they’ve been paid or not.

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oddfatherPosted on12:17 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Could someone close to ibrox check out the ticket queue. A video cam would be handy.

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TimalloyPosted on12:26 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Well done Dundee United on challenging Green so fast, a home cup tie LAST season and still no payment made. I mockingly posted after East Fife cup tie I hoped they left with their cheque for share of gate, if not I feel they like our Tannadice cousins will have a very long wait for payment.

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Smell the glovePosted on12:31 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Anyone heard anything about TRFC employees not getting payed and players being paid very little but on a promise of big money after league reconstruction, next season?

Three different bluenoses have mentioned this to me this morning.

After reading about their lack of cash to pay debts to scottish clubs, this news doesn’t seem too far fetched.

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Jimbo milliganPosted on12:38 pm - Aug 15, 2012


BBC Scotland has also learned Rapid Vienna are still owed for the sale of Nikica Jelavic, although the the next payment to the Austrian club is not due until the end of August.

=============

More evasion and bawbaggery from the bbc .

They have already missed payments on this deal have they not ? Hence the clubs complaint
to UEFA .

This is all going to end very badly i predict ..in a portsmouthesque fashion .

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ParmaHamsterPosted on12:40 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Mr Bunny says:

August 15, 2012 at 11:04

nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 14, 2012 at 23:12
Now that Besiktas are going to FIFA over McGregor, will they now start asking questions of the SFA, or as we expect do nothing about this attempt by TRFC aided by the SFA extorting money from clubs, for players TRFC have nothing to do with.
—————————————————————————————-
This is something I was going to post about. The SFA seem to be working to get money for TRFC – from guys like Naismith, Whitaker, Davis and so on by ignoring the law that makes them free agents and forcing them to go to FIFA to get playing permission (in the hopes that some clubs will pay something to avoid the hassle). Most of these clubs have of course refused to pay up but it really is a disgrace that the SFA are so complicit in helping them try it on.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As long as the registrations are withheld by Ogilvie and his pals (make no mistake, this has his fingerprints all over it), the more likely UEFA/FIFA will start to turn their gvns on the SFA. I don’t believe Regan himself has the stomach for such a battle – pretty soon he’ll have to decide just what side he’s actually on.

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ParmaHamsterPosted on12:43 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Smell the glove says:

August 15, 2012 at 12:31

Anyone heard anything about TRFC employees not getting payed and players being paid very little but on a promise of big money after league reconstruction, next season?

Three different bluenoses have mentioned this to me this morning.

After reading about their lack of cash to pay debts to scottish clubs, this news doesn’t seem too far fetched.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I can vouch for the Ibrox groundstaff being paid (their usual pittance) as normal while all this madness has been going on around them.

As for the rest, who knows?

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Smell the glovePosted on12:45 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The crowd at Ibrokes didn’t look very busy on tv. A few hundred at most.

I think we’re witnessing mass exageration on the season tickets front. And they’re dirt cheap.

A lot of rangers oldco fans recognise that their team died and they won’t accept newco as the same club. But that isn’t being reported.

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Smell the glovePosted on12:47 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The crowd at Ibrokes didn’t look very busy on tv. A few hvndred at most.

I think we’re witnessing mass exageration on the season tickets front. And they’re dirt cheap.

A lot of rangers oldco fans recognise that their team died and they won’t accept newco as the same club. But that isn’t being reported.

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Fritz AgrandoldteamPosted on12:55 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Reposting after being caught in moderation! (pl*cking?)

jonny says:
August 15, 2012 at 07:18

When watching western movies, I always laughed at scenes of a snake oil-salesman conning the townsfolk/settlers. I mused on how these down-to-earth people could ever be duped (where have I heard that word before?) by such an obvious charlatan. I was convinced it could never happen today with our street-wise population…………then I saw Charlie Green in action yesterday. For bottles, he had season tickets; for his miraculously cured stooge, he had Sandaza explaining how happy he was to have joined them in Div3, (but not in the SPL) .

All that was missing was CG’s beaver top hat……….

If someone can put the tar on, I’ll start pl*cking a chicken…………

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campsiejoePosted on12:57 pm - Aug 15, 2012


This is all going to end in tears
The SPL are now saying they can’t pay the clubs or SFL the money they are due, and it’s all the fault of RFC (IA)
Another PR coup by Donkey !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/19267915

Meanwhile Green carries on taunting everyone, and making fools of the governing bodies
Stooges Inc, are about to find out, just as Chamberlain did, that appeasement just does not work

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ELCPosted on1:02 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug
#SPL and #Rangers in dispute over who pays #DundeeUnited. RFC say deal in place with SPL for them to settle. SPL think deal was with oldco.

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rabPosted on1:11 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Rfc is oldco, Trfc is newc, so chris mclaughlin’s tweet is confusing.

I thought there was a five way agreement on these matters, so how can there be any confusion as to who had agreed to what.

DJ

you have seen the agreement so will be able to clarify as to who was liable for the d utd debt.

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DunmanPosted on1:17 pm - Aug 15, 2012


campsiejoe says:
August 15, 2012 at 12:57
1 0 Rate Down
This is all going to end in tears
The SPL are now saying they can’t pay the clubs or SFL the money they are due, and it’s all the fault of RFC (IA)
Another PR coup by Donkey !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/19267915

Meanwhile Green carries on taunting everyone, and making fools of the governing bodies
Stooges Inc, are about to find out, just as Chamberlain did, that appeasement just does not work
======================================================
I continue to struggle to see how, materially, payments from the SPL can be put down to RFC(IA/IL) situation. There was an existing SKY deal in place, there was an existing ESPN deal in place, no payments were due TO SPL FROM RFC. No major sponsors have been lost (or at least reported?).
What cash flow problem has hit SPL and why? Surely it should be at the moment at least, yep, RFC are IL, no impact to SPL as an organisation as yet (ok, future cash flow at gates for clubs may occur).
In fact, now RFC are IL, given they contravened articles of SPL/SFA which is a reason to withhold payments, wouldn’t that be a saving to SPL as no payment due to RFC?

What am I missing?

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ExiledCeltPosted on1:18 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Here is the wierd thing – if CG had not been spouting forth his bile about being the only Scottish club not in debt and having paid off everyone, no one would have said anything from Dundee Utd in all probability.His followers need never have known he is not only not paying his way but also that he is an outright liar. Either he thinks he can say anything he wants without any recourse or questioning – but then it worked for all of the predeccessors at the old club.

But just why is he coming out with all this jibberish? Is it purely to sell STs – he cannot be that shortsighted surely. He has to work with SFA/SPL and the other clubs at some juncture…..or is his plan more short lived than that………….

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ParmaHamsterPosted on1:18 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Enough of playing ‘pass the parcel’ with Sevco.

Time for somebody to grow a set and tell Doncaster and Regan – either get this sorted or the pair of you get the hell out of Dodge. As much as I’ve admired Celtic’s and Hearts’ stance over all this and Dundee United’s to-the-point comment today, I’m afraid it’s time Lawwell, Riley or whoever calls the shots at Celtic Park and Thompson, Romanov and co to go public and declare that the time for letting this Yorkshire bluffoon dictate terms is over. Either Green is slapped down now or civil war should be declared and a demand issued that FIFA investigate the running of Scottish football over the last five years.

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bad capt madmanPosted on1:18 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The five way agreeement, assuming it was in fact written down and signed, now needs to be made public. The situation is turning out to be another shambles. As if anyone is surprised.

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Philip José FarmerPosted on1:20 pm - Aug 15, 2012


How can Rangers FC PLC (as was) pay the debt.

The clubs concerned do not have a preference and as such cannot be paid in full before anyone else.

Again this is something they all know.

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ZilchPosted on1:22 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Question for Paul McConville

Going way back to your original blog posting (Aug 10). Apologies in advance if i am being dense… 🙂

Mr Gary Allen QC says:

“It is remarkable that throughout the Judicial Panel Disciplinary Tribunal Process there has been repeated, and regrettably wholly misconceived reference to the Report of Lord Nimmo Smith. For the avoidance of any doubt, the Judicial Panel hearing this disciplinary matter was at no time presented with the report, as evidence or otherwise, nor was it presented with any of its findings. No member of the Tribunal has had sight of it. The report was not mentioned by any party at any time in the course of the proceedings. The determinations which were reached, therefore, were reached entirely independently of any view at which any other person, however senior or eminent, may have arrived in fulfilment of his remit prior to the disciplinary hearing.”

He clearly says that not only did they not have sight of the Nimmo-Smith report, they “were not presented with any of its findings”.

This is a fairly strong contradiction of both of the statements attributed to Regan that are mentioned in your blog.

“The report will now be used as evidence and forwarded to a Judicial Panel for consideration and determination as per the protocol.“

“These findings were presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal.”

I understand the analogy you make of NS being the detective in this case and the preference for primary sources of evidence.

However, it seems to me that there is a serious question mark over the statements made by Regan in relation to the manner in which the NS report / findings were / were not presented to the Judicial Panel Tribunal. At best we have an example of some sort of clever lawyer doublespeak. At worst we have some sort of cover up…

Why did Mr Allan QC (presumably a top QC – none of yer ordinary QCs here, by the way) feel the need to make his statement above? Perhap he was concerned about the sort of serious misrepresentation that your post indicates?

All of which leaves us without sight of the Nimmo-Smith report and no surer that its findings actually HAVE been acted upon.

Is there any scope for obtaining the Nimmo-Smith report via a FOI request? I believe it would be in the public interest for these findings to be made public. People are currently paying money and supplying services to a company with a very murky reputation.

Thank you again for sharing your insight and knowledge with the community. It really is greatly appreciated!

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ExiledCeltPosted on1:23 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Dunman says:

August 15, 2012 at 13:17

I remember RTC asking same journalist via Twitter why he had posted some rumours – the journos reply was he posts anything he hears and its not up to him to check to see if its truw.

Its the race to be first rather than the race to have an exclusive story.

Like you I think it makes no sense – so I think the journo has talked to the wife of a taxi driver that knows David Attenborough’s cat’s vet who knows the sister of the doorman at SPL HQ who had heard this rumour in the gents……….

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Hoopy 7Posted on1:40 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The fact that a QC has seen fit to make a statement which completely contradicts Regan puts Regan in an untenable position.
If he has lied, and I think he has, then he must go. He is obviously part of Ogilvies corrupt cabal.

I come back to my point yesterday. Why are the clubs, who have representatives on the Board of the SFA, keeping quiet?

Are the findings of the Nimmo-Smith report of a nuclear variety?

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stevensanphPosted on1:41 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The cynic in me would say that the failure of the SPL to pay monies due to member clubs is a deliberate ploy by them to force clubs into administration and then say, ‘we told you so – we’re putting The Rangers into the SPL for your own good’

Of course, only a Rangers obsessed, corrupt organization would even consider such treachery.

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celtic1967Posted on1:43 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Angst and frustration appears, understandly, to be taking over this blog. The conspiratorial establishment which is nourishing the Sevco club is hard at work and will be every bit as difficult to weaken and dislodge, as it has been to bring to heel the Mafia or the apartheid supremacists in South Africa.
The classic UK establishment tactic of sitting on the fence and only doing something if it has to, is at work here. Things will go so far that they will be unable to be unpicked and, therefore, just left the way they are….. for The Rangers to metamorphose by convention and practice into Rangers.

The decsion making processes of the FTTT, Lord Hodge, BDO, the police et al are beginning to make Hamlet look like Speedy Gonzales. Meanwhile the Sevco club fortifies and refinances itself with pure abandon, refusing to acknowledge its debts, impervious to criticism and openly escaping censure by the authorities and MSM for presenting itself as what it definitely is not. Sevco swaggers towards us like some carefree boulevardier, despite the fact that the rear view would show the a**e out of its swaggering, billowing trousers.

Yesterday rail fare rises poignantly brings home just how much taxpaying workers are having to find to meet their commitments. We need to be getting as much back from the various Ibrox incarnations as we can. We all need the defrauded cash for more important things.

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coineanachantaighePosted on1:43 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Dunman says:
August 15, 2012 at 13:17
————————————–
Maybe I’m dense but reading that I get the impression of the journo making a slant or spin on a story based on no more than the fact that the late fixing up of the TV deal has meant that payments will begin a little later as a result.

It’s a kind of “we need Rangers” spin which naturally Doncaster will go along with so easy to get a quote from him; otherwise all it really says is the deal was late being agreed to so will start a bit later than usual.

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stevensanphPosted on1:46 pm - Aug 15, 2012


A further point. If SKY have not paid for their TV rights, what on earth were their cameras doing at SPL grounds on the weekend??

Unless they have paid and the SPL are just refusing to release as above…

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Edgar BlammPosted on1:48 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Weekend at Charlie’s: http://twitpic.com/ajpg1u

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Charlie BrownPosted on1:53 pm - Aug 15, 2012


stevensanph says:
August 15, 2012 at 13:41
0 0 Rate This
The cynic in me would say that the failure of the SPL to pay monies due to member clubs is a deliberate ploy by them to force clubs into administration and then say, ‘we told you so – we’re putting The Rangers into the SPL for your own good’

Of course, only a Rangers obsessed, corrupt organization would even consider such treachery.
===========================================================================

And to think they fine Mr Romanov tens of thousands of pounds (protection money) for repeatedly calling them a ‘mafia’.

Nobody except SKY-TV has pumped more money into Scottish football since 2005 than Mr Romanov’s companies have done and yet the Rangers Tax Case and the snails-pace inclination to prosecute and take any action against Rangers / The Rangers proves it was all based on a false premise and that he was effectively flushing his money down the toilet trying to compete and win against the mobster owners of the casino.

The House Team wins again.

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SeniorPosted on1:53 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Timalloy,

I’m sure it was with tongue in cheek you mention “I hope they left with a cheque for share of gate”

On a more serious note. The one thing that nobody has address is what if THE rangers get back to the SPL in the time frame envisaged by SFA. Every game they would play would be a very bitter affair, with opposition fans chanting the words CHEATS CHEATS CHEATS none- stop throughout the game. Has SFA really thought this through. Have they thought of the consequence of this bitter senario that would continue for years and potentially bring about the ruination of our game. .

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Kindred SpiritPosted on2:04 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Hearts were fined for not paying their players wages…in fact they were ONE day late and got fined

and yet DUFC and others have beeen waiting months on payments owed

im really really surprised that mad vlad has not been shouting from the roof tops

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TheresalwaysthesunPosted on2:23 pm - Aug 15, 2012


The payments to Dundee Utd and the other teams in Scotland are debts from Oldco, which is presently in administration. Maybe the SPL cannot pay the debts because it might be unlawful as they would be party to giving preferential treatment to creditors. Their legal advisers will probably have told them to withhold payment until they get clearance from either the courts, HMRC or BDO. This should have been considered before now, by the SPL, SFL and SFA. The footballing bodies may well have to hand over the money to the liquidators to go into the creditors pot.
The blame for this lies mainly with Murray and Whyte for creating this mess in the first place.

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Buteo ButeoPosted on2:25 pm - Aug 15, 2012


Peter Lawwell took part in The renegotiation of the Sky deal. Surely he could advise the other clubs when they are due to make the first payment to SPL.

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BlueSkiesPosted on2:34 pm - Aug 15, 2012


smell the glove at 1247, I do not agree with either your assessment that the season ticket sales are an exaggeration or that a lot of olco fans do not see this club as Rangers. Time will tell. What I do know is that the early signs have bene really encouraging for the game in Scotland. Rangers have been welcomed in Brechin and Peterhead and the games have been competitive and entertaining. We have started to win friends back. I would also like to think the other teams in the division have been given a wee boost by having Rangers in the league. Witness the excitement of the Queens Park game last night, and East Stirling knocking out Airdrie. While I would like to focus on these positives, I would also like CG to fight his battles in private. His will to get the Rangers fans onside with a share issue coming up should not be at the expense of the authorities or other clubs.

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