What follows is a record of an exchange in October with David Conn of The Guardian in respect of an article written by him in August 2016 reporting the arrival of The Rangers FC in the top tier of the SPFL.
In that article David Conn suggests that there was no tax overdue in respect of “The Wee Tax Case” of 2011 because he was told by the SFA that agreement had been reached with HMRC to postpone payment until after the Takeover by Craig Whyte and on those grounds the SFA granted a licence.
For such an agreement to pass UEFA FFP rules muster it had to be in writing, signed by HMRC and dated 31st March 2011 or earlier. There were behind the scenes discussions on this point and attempts were made separately at the time to obtain such written unpublished documentation that complied with UEFA FFP regulations from Darryl Broadfoot the Head of SFA Communications, but in spite of promises it never arrived.
Not surprising as, had it existed, Celtic would certainly have been informed when they first wrote to the SFA in December 2011 – thereby rendering Resolution 12, placed at the 2013 Celtic AGM requesting UEFA to investigate the UEFA licensing process throughout 2011 as truly unnecessary.
The first e mail (edited with cosmetic changes to aid reading by a wider audience but no change of sense) made the following points to Mr Conn on 9th Oct 2017…..
Dear Mr Conn.
On 5th August 2016 you wrote an article about the arrival of “Rangers” into the top tier of the SPFL.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/aug/05/rangers-scottish-premiership-tax-issue
(* A relevant extract from that article – in italics – can be read separately at the end of this blog)
Given that the Craig Whyte trial in July 2017, revealed discrepancies (already known to the Celtic shareholders pursuing Res12) between what was stated at the trial and what was reported to the SFA and UEFA during 2011 in terms of the status of the wee tax case liability, then it would appear that your article:
- Does not fully reflect what took place, giving the impression over two paragraphs that a written agreement signed by HMRC to postpone payment had been reached between HMRC and RFC by 31st March 2011. Had this been so it would mean that there was no overdue tax payable at 31st March 2011 as UEFA define an overdue payable to tax authorities.
- However what was revealed in court in July 2017 was that RFC had accepted the liability before 31st March 2011 and so it was not “potential” with “discussions continuing with HMRC to establish a resolution to the assessments raised”, as reported in RFC Interim accounts on 1st April 2011. It was for this reason the SFA have asked their Compliance Officer to investigate what took place and had there been a written agreement to postpone prior to 31st March 2011, there would have been no need to describe the liability to the SFA in the way that it was.
- Further your article does not fully reflect the reason why “Rangers” had to wait three years before playing in European competition, which was that UEFA viewed “Rangers” as a NEW club/company. This was not mentioned although the SFA, who advised you they held an unpublished HMRC letter also held a copy of a letter dated 8th June 2016 from UEFA Head of Club Licensing Andrea Traverso (copy attached) to that effect.
Consequently will you be following the SFA Compliance Officer investigation, and indeed will you be telling him the basis on which you reported the SFA’s position in your article of August 2016 without revealing sources of course?
Importantly in terms of all your other investigatory work into skulduggery, are you also aware that despite what you may have been told by the SFA, Resolution 12 was and is ultimately about making the SFA more accountable and transparent to supporters, an aim which I think you would surely support and is there any chance of you helping with that aim by considering what has caused the SFA to finally capitulate and do what Res12 asked for in 2013, albeit domestically?
A national football association using the media to try to derail a genuine investigation into their behaviour is surely of national, never mind Scottish, interest?
In some ways it matters little now if Rangers gained and retained that licence by deception as the court statement indicates, with the result the SFA Compliance Officer is conducting an investigation.
What matters more is that the SFA have used the absence of accountability to cover up their part in the licensing process, not just from March through to September 2011 but to ignore genuine enquiries from supporter/shareholders of a member club from 2014 to July 2017. During which time their positions;
- that the bill had not crystallised, or
- was subject to dispute or
- was under appeal or
- that after 31st March, monitoring was not an SFA function, as stated by SFA CEO Stewart Regan,
were exposed (in court) as self-serving myths.
The SFA and how poorly they serve the game in Scotland because they are accountable to no one is THE story of Resolution 12 and you could help bring accountability about by reporting how you were duped by the SFA in August last year and report on what the Compliance Officer finds.
As it is your August article has undermined your reputation somewhat as someone whom I understand seeks better accountability and transparency from football authorities.
PS what Celtic shareholders lawyers reported to SFA, and when, is available if you decide to engage.
Yours etc
After a couple of reminders, one copied to The Guardian Sports Editor a reply was received dated 8th November 2017 in which Mr Conn said.
Hello
Thank you for your emails and apologies for not having replied sooner; I have been very busy recently. I have seen that some questions have been raised about the piece I wrote in relation to this. I understand that this issue has been of great interest to people; however, I do not currently have plans to revisit it.
Thank you for your interest and apologies again for not replying sooner.
D Conn
As the SFA Head of Communications, Darryl Broadfoot, who departed from his post in January 2017, would most probably be the person to whom David Conn spoke. He is the same person who failed to clarify this article at:
by STV reporter Grant Russell, who also recently departed from his job at STV.
The STV article omitted certain references about UEFA treating The Rangers FC/The Rangers International FC as a NEW club/company, a piece of unsolicited information that was contained in a UEFA response to Celtic shareholders’ lawyer from Andrea Traverso, Head of UEFA Club Licensing) and which was copied to the SFA a week before STV published.
Some may also remember the strange episode where The Guardian accepted an advert from the Celtic AGM Resolution 12 requistitioners in 2016 attempting to draw the attention of Resolution 12 on a tax evasion aspect to the wider tax paying British pubic. Having accepted payment for a “Persistence Beats Res12tance” advert, The Guardian for some unexplained reason changed their mind and decided not to publish and refunded the payment.
They have been coy on answering who, what or why they changed their mind and as can be seen from the above reply from David Conn appear unwilling to pursue the UEFA 2011 Licencing issue further (at least for now). Hopefully those plans will change when the SFA investigation is complete, whatever the result.
Mr Broadfoot although no longer an SFA employee, appears to be continuing in some capacity as an SFA spokesman given his appearance on BBC Sportsound on 8th November along with Paul Goodwin of the Scottish Football Supporters Association (SFSA) to discuss the findings of an SFSA survey involving over 16,000 supporters that highly criticised the SFA for their governance of Scottish football. The programme segment can be heard here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sQRFX2vOWUvkaeRAEEYL3vzMqdXGFE8T/view?usp=sharing
The overriding point here though is not the credibility of main stream media outlets, which is at an all-time low, but the use of those outlets by the SFA officials using the media in an attempt to produce an outcome that suits them and a single SFA member club at the expense of the value of the shares held by shareholders in another SFA member club.
Awareness of the impact on shareholder value of member clubs by SFA decisions is yet another issue that an enquiry into SFA methods/processes should address, particularly since HMRC made the SFA aware in 2009 of their concerns about Rangers use of ebts in player contracts.
Until such an investigation takes place the SFA will be viewed as no longer fit to govern Scottish football in its present form.
Extract from Conn Article of 5th August.
Even now, an allegation persists the SFA was deficient in allowing Rangers a licence to compete in the Champions League during that season, 2011-12. The case, based on leaked documentation from the time and pressed by a group of Celtic supporters on their club to pursue as resolution 12 of the 2013 annual general meeting, was recently argued strongly in a report by the Tax Justice Network campaign.
The argument is that in breach of Uefa rules against clubs having overdue tax payable, Rangers owed £2.8m on a discounted options scheme following a successful HMRC challenge known as the “wee tax case”.
The SFA is adamant its committee which considered the licence dealt with the issue thoroughly and received the necessary evidence the tax was not overdue according to Uefa rules. One informed source involved with the issue at the time, who did not want to speak publicly owing to continuing criminal proceedings against Whyte arising out of his tenure at Rangers, said that at the initial deadline, 31 March 2011, HMRC had agreed that the £2.8m did not need to be paid until after his May 2011 takeover.
Before subsequent 30 June and 30 September deadlines, Rangers, by then owned by Whyte, are understood to have told the SFA they were in discussions with HMRC over the money owed. Uefa rules allow tax not to be treated as “overdue” where there is a written agreement with the tax authority for payment to be extended.
The SFA, although declining to disclose details of the documentation it received, citing confidentiality with its member clubs, told the Guardian via a spokesperson: “The Scottish FA has always been clear the licensing award issued to Rangers in 2011 by the licensing committee was correct. The process is audited on an annual basis by Uefa.”
Uefa, pressed on the issue again recently, said: “The licence for the 2011-12 season was granted by the SFA and there was no reason for Uefa to doubt this decision.”
Uefa has said it has no need to investigate further if the tax was in fact overdue according to its definition, because after that season, Rangers’ fate anyway equated to a sanction for breach of the rules: they could not play in European competition for the following three years. HMRC, taking a stern view of clubs defaulting on tax, declined to approve a company voluntary arrangement with creditors and Rangers went into liquidation.
On the second day of Advent my true troll brought to me,
Two posts pishladen…
Only one more sleep (or night at the keyboard) until the fitting of the jacket with the fasteners at the back.
EASYJAMBODECEMBER 3, 2017 at 22:34
=======================
My understanding is the Celtic board would not be willing to accept the type of scenario you describe. They are in possession of all the information the Res 12 guys worked so hard to gather. It would be enough to go to UEFA, and CAS if required. The media won’t control this – if they had shown a proper journalistic interest in all the info they were sent by the Res 12 guys some time ago the matter would have been long dealt with.
UPTHEHOOPSDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 07:17
My understanding is the Celtic board would not be willing to accept the type of scenario you describe. They are in possession of all the information the Res 12 guys worked so hard to gather. It would be enough to go to UEFA, and CAS if required. The media won’t control this – if they had shown a proper journalistic interest in all the info they were sent by the Res 12 guys some time ago the matter would have been long dealt with.
_____________
I hope you are correct in what you say regarding Celtic’s unwillingness to accept EJ’s scenario, and I presume the same will be true for any other attempt to deflect, and dilute, the blame. I think this may be where Celtic ‘keeping their powder dry’ just might help the case of the Resolution 12 guys, in that the SFA will not know how Celtic will react to their usual eyewash. In such cases, uncertainty can be a scarey enemy of those who fear the truth.
As for the media, it is they who make sites such as ours so important in matters like this by keeping the story alive. In years gone by the whole saga would have been swept under the carpet and forgotten about over a few glasses of the finest claret…
John (de niro) Clark
December 4, 2017 at 09:57
——————————————-
“The watch that is being assiduously kept on the affairs of the new club are, as far as I am concerned, not a reflection of any interest in that club, but to make sure that there is no more chicanery on the part of the SFA to further aid that struggling club (which of course is living a lie, and is on that account alone deserving of nothing but scorn as a cuckoo in the nest of Scottish football)”
Reminded me of
I’ll be watching you (Every breath you take, every move you make, every bond you break, every step you take)
I’ll be watching you
(Every single day, every word you say, every game you play,)
I’ll be watching you
(Every move you make, every vow you break, every smile you fake, every claim you stake)
I’ll be watching you
(Every single day, every word you say, every game you play,)
I’ll be watching you (Every breath you take, every move you make, every bond you break, every step you take)
I’ll be watching you (Every single day, every word you say, every game you play,)
I’ll be watching you
Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner, CBE
I see Ernest uses both Internet Explorer AND Google Chrome
BIG PINKDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 11:41
Took a second or two, but I got it
Those disputing, contradicting, and confuting people are generally unfortunate in their affairs. They get victory, sometimes, but they never get good will, which would be of more use to them. Benjamin Franklin
Fair play: a couple of huge results for TRFC against the Dons.
Coming back to the manager ‘recruitment via the SMSM’ campaign, IIRC another Bampot mentioned before about the Tommy Burns case, where CFC was fined GBP100K for ‘tapping up’.
Whether TRFC gets McInnes or not, the manner in which they have gone about their business has been disgraceful, IMO.
TRFC can deny direct involvement with the SMSM, but the average Internet Bampot can see what is really a happening.
Is this another dodgy precedent being established by the SFA’s inaction / looking the other way ?
Any club can very publicly ‘tap up’ – or just unsettle – an opposition manager or player in future, and the SFA will be powerless to intervene ?
I think any neutral would reasonably wonder why the SFA is not commenting on a member club dragging Scottish football’s reputation through the gutter – yet again.
So what is the SFA really for ?
Answers on a postcard to Hampden…
An update on last weeks big race, the Epsom troll Derby,
The only “runner” EB a fooly, ehh, I mean a filly, by DeNial, out of Steerpike, was disqualified in this walkover for going completely in the wrong direction and had to pull up. Eb’s jockey Nial Walker said “I was told EB knew the way”
Sorry about the seemingly random quote posted earlier . The rest of the post appears to have gone awol in the ether . No great loss,truth be told .
For those of you on Twitter you may have noticed Tom English having a pathetic swipe at this site today. Tom was making the point that the media are only speaking of Derek McInnes to Rangers based on information they have. see the tweets below:
SFM Retweeted Tom English
and as we know, the MSM always act when they are provided with information.
Tom EnglishVerified account @BBCTomEnglish 8h8 hours agoMoreSome comedy Celtic bloggers don’t count, sorry
In my opinion it is becoming really concerning the number of BBC Journalists who are acting in the way English has here. In some ways it almost appears to be that a type of war has been declared by the public broadcaster. On one side you have them and a club who will not even speak to them. On the other side you have everyone else who simply wants the truth to be at least acknowledged, instead of suppressed.
John Clark today 09:57
Wonderful stuff JC – where would we be without you.
PADDY MALARKEY
DECEMBER 4, 2017 at 18:24
…
Tom EnglishVerified account @BBCTomEnglish Some comedy Celtic bloggers don’t count, sorry
…
===============================
Must admit, over the last 5+ years I have learned a heck of a lot about Scottish football and related matters – and from the very same ‘comedy bloggers’, or as the SMSM labelled us: Internet Bampots.
And did one particular ‘comedy blogger’ not win an Orwell Award for their output ?
Guessing that BBC sports journalists must have lots of awards then ?
[But the Scottish Press Awards don’t really count! Keef to win again next year??? ]
And I have also learned that the BBC was never actually that good in the past: it’s just that we had to wait for the arrival of the internet to prove it.
I’ll take comedy writing any day – and before any BBC / SMSM output, thanks.
:sheep:
Sportsound on just now and we have English, McIntyre and Kris Boyd all basically saying T’Rangers are briefing behind the scenes that McInnes is their number one choice.
It is these unnamed sources that the SMSM reps and Boyd are saying justify the continued interest in the story. However, the extent of their coverage is just saying T’Rangers want McInnes and why would he not want to go.
Michael Stewart is the only one with the balls to tell it how it is and what the main story should be.
If McInnes is the No 1 choice why is it taking so long?
Is there a divide in the Ibrox Board?
Are they having trouble raising the compo money to make the first move?
Are they guilty of tapping up another clubs manager?
Is it fair on McInnes to be surrounded by such indecision – if it is generally accepted he is the No 1 choice?
There are a lot of different angles to the SMSM could investigate if they did a tiny bit more than just repeat the shite fed to them.
TWM 22: Talking SFA and Sky and After-career care of footballers with George Galloway. Other topics include The Rangers/Aberdeen/McInnes love triangle, Major SPFL bufoonery, and a round up of the weekend.
I’m afraid Mr English in calling people “comedy bloggers” has went down the same route as EB when he described people as “football supporters” as if that meant they were that and nothing else.
There are people here who are clearly very knowledgeable, in a variety of fields. The fact that they are “football supporters” does not define everything about them.
The fact that someone posts blogs, or that others read those blogs and possibly comments on them does not mean that is all they are or do.
If I can quote Mr English from 2010, writing in The Scotsman
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-the-level-of-punditry-is-patronising-and-insulting-1-813206
‘The level of punditry is patronising and insulting’
IT’S FAIR to say that it’s not just ITV that has taken some stick for some of their coverage at this World Cup, particularly the coverage of the tournament’s lesser lights. The BBC have been getting it in the neck as well. To give you an example, what I’m talking about here is things like Alan Shearer’s self-proclaimed “expert analysis” that amounts to a conveyor belt of cliches and the kind of insight that even a child of six would describe as laughable.
and
There’s a lot of this going about, on BBC and ITV. The level of punditry is cringe-making. It’s lowest common denominator stuff. Patronising and insulting, much of it.
=========================================
And you and your colleagues coverage of Scottish football Tom, what do you think of that. Your coverage of the biggest ever story in Scottish football, do you think it covers you in glory.
On the Tom English thing today, we were not having a go at him with the initial tweet – only pointing out that the MSM didn’t always act on information they were given (much of which they – including English – received from SFM readers), which was the justification for the constant stream of gossip and innuendo over McInnes.
Like people often do when they are unfamiliar with social media mechanisms, Tom inferred something that was never implied, and decided to have a go at “comedy Celtic bloggers”.
If he was having a go at SFM, he obviously is not aware of the demographic on here, because the ‘Celtic’ epithet is quite clearly incorrect.
We took him to task (as did others who sought clarification of his remark) for his ad hominem attack as a substitute for addressing the actual issues, and he went silent.
He has since reappeared with another derisory bit of name-calling in Joey Barton’s direction – I assume to curry favour with the Celtic demographic he fell foul of earlier.
Just for once, it would be nice if any of these people, if they choose to engage, left their egos at the door, kept their keyboard commando tendencies at bay, and gave some thought to what people on social media have to say.
We’ve often said that the animosity between MSM and alternative forms of media is because of the existential threat posed by the latter on the former.
Today is evidence that the MSM are not winning the war,
WOTTPIDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 19:27
There are a lot of different angles to the SMSM could investigate if they did a tiny bit more than just repeat the shite fed to them.
========================
However, to do so they would have to have an intention to report on the outcome of the investigation. Don’t ask questions when you won’t like the answer! Better still, don’t ask questions when all you need to know is dictated to you at the Rangers AGM by a convicted tax cheat.
On the Tom English thing today,can’t be bothered looking on twitter so will go with what i read here.
never indulge and tweet
maybe it’s the christmas party
STEVIEBCDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 18:57
PADDY MALARKEYDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 18:24…Tom EnglishVerified account @BBCTomEnglish Some comedy Celtic bloggers don’t count, sorry
Not guilty , and you’ll never get UPTHEHOOPS’ name out of me !
PADDY MALARKEY
DECEMBER 4, 2017 at 20:21
STEVIEBCDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 18:57
PADDY MALARKEYDECEMBER 4, 2017 at 18:24…Tom EnglishVerified account @BBCTomEnglish Some comedy Celtic bloggers don’t count, sorry
Not guilty , and you’ll never get UPTHEHOOPS’ name out of me !
================================================
Oops! Sorry UPTHEHOOPS.
Mibbees I’ve been too critical of the SMSM all along ?
…this copy/paste lark is not as easy as it looks.
upthehoopsDecember 4, 2017 at 18:36 (Edit) In my opinion it is becoming really concerning the number of BBC Journalists who are acting in the way English has here. In some ways it almost appears to be that a type of war has been declared by the public broadcaster. On one side you have them and a club who will not even speak to them. On the other side you have everyone else who simply wants the truth to be at least acknowledged, instead of suppressed.
==========================
Tom does not appear to have accepted the subsequent invitation…
SFM @TheSFMonitor 10h10 hours ago More
SFM Retweeted Tom English
and as we know, the MSM always act when they are provided with information.
Tom English @BBCTomEnglish 10h10 hours agoMore
Some comedy Celtic bloggers dont count, sorry
Auldheid @Auldheid
Replying to @BBCTomEnglish @TheSFMonitor
Would you like to meet a couple Tom? Should be a laugh. Nothing to fear from two retired Internet comedians. Give us your side of the story.
I was pretty certain few weeks ago that Sevco amd SMSM would attempt to destabilise the situation re McInnes joining Sevco. That has happened
However, if the Dons Manager is as ‘riled’ and angered as he SEEMS to be at the speculation (remember, the SMSM media reputatation is nosediving in the face of the better informed ‘bampots), then maybe we’re doing him a disservices (although I agree he could clear any uncertainty up with a simple dismissive statement i.e that he was not going to Govania).
I agree with WOTTPI re his Michael Stewart comment. Something’s not right.
Finally, keeping an open mind,, if McInnes is in on some behind the scenes skulduggery, his treatment of Dons fans is despicable.
Auldheid @Auldheid Replying to @BBCTomEnglish @TheSFMonitor Would you like to meet a couple Tom? Should be a laugh. Nothing to fear from two retired Internet comedians. Give us your side of the story.
Tom, another “internet comedian” here:-
https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/lies-damned-lies-and-scottish-football-
journalism/
Read it Tom, not a redundant word in it.
Scottish Football Monitor
Asking the questions the media won’t ask.
wottpiDecember 4, 2017 at 19:27
‘….Sportsound on just now and we have English, McIntyre and Kris Boyd all basically saying T’Rangers are briefing behind the scenes that McInnes is their number one choice.’
________________
It was interesting that McIntyre introduced the topic of the Aberdeen fan’s letter (about the SMSM touting McInnes as TRFC Ltd’s chosen target) by clearing himself of any suggestion that his point of view was ‘based on unfounded speculation’.
He assured us that he had simply been reporting what he had heard from four different sources very close to where it’s all at ,at Ibrox (and not Level 5, he clarified!).
He seems to have been rather more anxious to let us know that he has well-placed sources than in dealing with the Aberdeen fan’s point!( and that was a very, very good letter!)
That point was that he as ‘BBC’ has no business in joining in with and fostering over BBC airwaves, a “McInnes for ‘Rangers’ ” campaign ,in concert with ( oh, haven’t we heard that expression somewhere in another context?) the general run of the SMSM hacks (with maybe the odd exception)
MacIntyre’s ‘sources’ at TRFC Ltd seem very willing to speak secretly to ‘MacIntyre of the BBC’, who seems to be only too ready to assist them get their ( possibly lying message) across to further their aims. [Faint memories of ‘Broadfoot of the SFA’ are tugging at the memory cells]
Each party,of course,keeping up the ridiculous pretence that TRFC Ltd does not speak to the BBC.
The BBC Scotland is way way beyond a joke now. I really dont want to fund their corrupt reportage in Scotland . I will certainly be considering this https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence#catchup
woodsteinDecember 4, 2017 at 22:07
‘…Tom, another “internet comedian” here:-…..@
____________How well remember that blog by RTC, woodstein!
I scrolled down a little and had to laugh when I saw these old posts on that blog:
[paddimir says:30/03/2011 at 9:13 pm
” I’d like to nominate pedro and rangerstaxcase to take over the SFA, if that’s okay with everyone?”]
[“rangerstaxcase says:30/03/2011 at 10:39 pm “I think Pedro and I would need to consider the damage to our reputations!” ]
John ClarkDecember 4, 2017 at 22:52
Nail on head
bect67December 4, 2017 at 21:07
‘…..Finally, keeping an open mind,, if McInnes is in on some behind the scenes skulduggery, his treatment of Dons fans is despicable.’
___________
Not the least damnable thing about the cheating by SDM and etc etc, is the fact that it has destroyed our simple belief that our game was, bar the odd referee and occasional ‘Secretary’, generally clean in terms of its overall governance.
Football is a funny old game, and we have all seen remarkable events over the years, when minnow teams have humbled the mighty.
However, it is a remarkable co-incidence that
the second best team in the SPFL [ managed (by all professional accounts!) by an excellent manager]
competing with a team many of whose players [by all professional accounts] would , by supporter demand, be dumped if their pay-offs could be afforded,
and managed by a stand-in manager of no great experience
at a time when its manager is touted by the SMSM to be for a certainty appointed to the job of his dreams…….
.
has been humped twice in quick succession.
I believe in coincidence, of course.
I also believe, as does Michael Stewart, in unconscious psychological effects, and in people having off-days.
Of course I do.
And it would be quite iniquitous to suggest even for a second that those two defeats in quick succession were anything other than a manifestation of the truth that football is a funny old game.
Big PinkDecember 4, 2017 at 20:11
‘…– only pointing out that the MSM didn’t always act on information they were given (much of which they – including English – received from SFM readers),’
_______________
When the whole of Scotland turned its head in astonishment and wonder when ‘Rangers’ was sold for a pound, it is unbelievable that the news media did not immediately get right in there to dig out the full true story.
Even the ‘business’ editors.
Worse, it would be a damning indictment of the news media if , having dug down to find the story, they chose not to report it.
It is for the likes of English, Speirs, Wilson and the rest to tell us how much journalistic digging they did, and what they discovered, and why they did not report a fraction of what we know was there to be discovered.
They did the very opposite. They did not drill down to find anything like truth.
Fair enough, they may have been afraid.
But they acted, and continue to act, as PR men for the ‘untruth’.
That is their unforgivable sin.
And yer man English is as guilty( well, maybe not quite as guilty) as the rest.
For those interested in the SFA Compliance Officer investigation and the hurdles it presents the SFA and why it is taking a while have a look at:
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/anderlecht-and-hibs-will-keep-adrenaline-flowing/comment-page-5/#comment-3163359
SFA,they are the custodian of the facts
the fact they said king was chairman of the club when he was not.
last one since EB will be no more
Those darn facts.EB goodbye and goodluck in all you do
More on Sportsound.
A recent ‘advert’ on their show for tonight’s Celtic v Anderlecht game featured the last goal in Celtic’s 7-1 loss in Paris. No-one, least of all me, will attempt to sugar coat that result, however Celtic go into tonight’s game with a very good chance of doing what the vast majority of people said was their best chance when the group was drawn, which is to finish third. That chance is courtesy of beating Anderlecht 3-0 on their own patch. Would it have been too much for Sportsound to have used that game as the basis for the advert?
It definitely seems like a person, or persons, within the BBC are using Sportsound to push personal agendas. The overwhelming Rangers influence within the pundits and their willingness to use the show to promote a sugar coated version of events at Ibrox now appears to be getting noticed by fans of many clubs. It is time the BBC remembered they are for us all, not just for what they clearly see as an elite group.
that’s all
“Brave calls,tactical nous, did a number on the next Rangers boss twice and took a point off celtic…
is Murty the man to replace Del at Dons?
Ibrox caretaker could be exactly what the Reds need. “
Craig Swan Daily Record 05/12/2017
Naughty boy has been at the sherry already.
So, no enquiry? What secrets does Mr Levein hold?
BDO report to creditors
https://www.bdo.co.uk/getmedia/a4db008f-11e2-49fc-b72b-af5ba1ce8d2b/RFC-2012-Plc-report-dated-5-December-2017.pdf.aspx
If, as reasonably expected, CFC successfully qualifies for the Europa Cup tonight…
…then tomorrow could be a good day for TRFC to announce their new manager, and steal all the headlines?
They are clearly asking HMRC to re-consider the level of penalties.
HMRC may well do that as they have already achieved their main objective, the Supreme Court precedent re disguised remuneration.
It is interesting to see that Duff and Phelps appear not to be answering the liquidator’s requests for information re the administration. I think we can all have a good guess at what that may be about. It’s therefore understandable why they don’t really want to answer. It will be interesting to see if BDO are successful in suing them.
My guess is the release of negative goodwill (not equity) may form part of the BDO argument. They committed to selling the assets at considerably less than their value, meaning the creditors have lost a substantial sum of money. They had no right to do that once the CVA was rejected as they should have been maximising the return for the creditors.
STEVIEBC
only in smsm land would a 5 year old club steal headlines from a club getting into europe against the odds
TONYDECEMBER 5, 2017 at 19:10 6 2 Rate This
STEVIEBConly in smsm land would a 5 year old club steal headlines from a club getting into europe against the odds
——————
Aberdeen Football Club has announced this evening that Rangers have contacted the Club asking for permission to speak to Derek McInnes and that permission has been refused.
Now there’s an unequivocal statement
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/1371210/aberdeen-refuse-rangers-permission-talk-dons-manager-derek-mcinnes/
“Aberdeen Football Club has announced this evening that Rangers have contacted the club asking for permission to speak to Derek McInnes and that permission has been refused.”
Could this refusal by Aberdeen be not down to annoyance at TRanger’s unsettling their manager but due to TRangers’ being unwilling to show evidence of of ability/willingness to pay the compensation due. (E.g. put all or large part of money due into 3rd party account??)
I’m off to listen to R4 extra comedy programmes to cheer myself up.
Nite nite friends.
At least your bhoys are still in Europe jimbo
tonyDecember 5, 2017 at 19:10
‘..only in smsm land would a 5 year old club steal headlines ‘
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Come, come, Tony: they have no need to ‘steal’ headlines!
They get, absolutely free of charge,anything they want in the way of up-beat, positive, puff, supportive headlines from the rat-pack of pseudo journalists, who would be flushed down the pan like excremental filth by real journalists, such as the murdered Daphne Caruana Galizia, God rest her soul.
We know that PR agencies routinely lie: that is their mucky ‘job’. But they do not claim to be ‘journalists’, having expressly given up any pretence of being seekers after truth.But they are still the pits!
Those pseudo journalists who work in the print media are much more despicable, in their abandonment of all investigation into the murky cheating of SDM, and the even more murky cheating by the SFA.
But those working for BBC Radio Scotland who propagandise relentlessly on behalf of TRFC Ltd and the Big Lie are ….an abomination.
Bad cess , and very bad cess, to them.
And it will be a cold day in hell before I wish them anything other than bad cess.
Under terms of McInnes’s contract, I believe Aberdeen can’t refuse permission to speak to him IF the compensation amount is offered AND paid upfront. If talks between Rangers and McInnes are unsuccessful, the cash is returned
Aberdeen are concerned that if they allow negotiations to begin and McInnes agrees to leave, Rangers could then try to haggle, whilst Aberdeen have a manager who is effectively dead in the water, making their negotiating position impossible.
I believe that was exactly how the Sunderland interest was handled.
Strange message to send to a prospective manager; “We’ve been saving the money up for weeks ‘cos we think you’re worth it – but we’re gonna try to get a bargain anyway”
If, as looks likely, they have asked to speak to McInnes and not paid upfront, there can be only two possibilities;
1. They have no intention of making McInnes the next Rangers manager and this is all window dressing to buy some more time, or;
2. They have no intention of paying the prescribed compensation amount.
Given King’s track record, it is not difficult to believe that some bawbaggery is in the works. Neither surprised nor disappointed in that, but McInnes is a different story. Aberdeen fans will be desperately disappointed if it appears he has colluded with King – particularly given the hero status he has been afforded at Pittodrie.
These last two matches may well become seminal in his career.
BDO has incurred over £900k in expenses over the last six month period. Only £225k relates to their own expenses, but most of the rest has gone in legal fees, with £147k specifically to their QC (Andrew Thornhill / Roddy Dunlop) for the EBT case.
The Creditors pot has fallen to £14.1m at as 31 October, with £1.355m of that distributed as an interim dividend to some creditors after the reporting period.
Big PinkDecember 5, 2017 at 22:59
‘……These last two matches may well become seminal in his career.’
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And inevitably, rightly or wrongly, justly or unjustly, questions will be asked of the collapse of the second strongest team in Scottish football in not just one, but TWO, matches against at best a very, very, very mediocre team, of which to be manager is a lifetime ambition of the current manager of that second strongest team.
You know, you could hardly dare to write a script!
(well, of course, no playwright in Scotland would think of writing a play about such a possible story line!)
At the very least, questions will undoubtedly be asked about the managerial competence of McInnes.
And about whether he is the man who, without money to spend, will be able to bring forward the day when TRFC Ltd is a force in Europe.
My own private opinion , which I share with you as being my opinion, is that McInnes has compromised himself.
He is not likely to explain himself to me.
But I think he will owe the Aberdeen FC supporters’ base some explanation, if he chooses to accept any offer from TRFC Ltd. ( which is not, of course, the ‘Rangers’ of 1872,of George Young, Sam English,Don Kitchenbrand, Wullie Henderson, Sandy Jardine etc etc….)
easyJamboDecember 5, 2017 at 23:01
‘… with £147k specifically to their QC (Andrew Thornhill / Roddy Dunlop) for the EBT case. ‘
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My memory is not quite what it used to be,eJ, but were not you and I at the uttt hearing in George St, and in brief conversation ,during the lunch break, with Thornhill?
When he told us he had a house over in the Gladsmuir hills?
Honest to God, I really warmed to the man, such was his disarming charm (and private acknowledgement that EBTs as used by RFC(IL) were….!)
Well said JC,
If he does leave to a club he’s spectacularly lost two back to back games to, after weeks of media / pr pressure, then questions should indeed be asked, but of whom?
The SFA will never charge TRFC with bringing the game into disrepute over this, although it should.
AFC could have put him on leave but that could have led to DM claiming constructive dismissal, and left AFC with no compensation. It’s all very murky.
There’s no point complaining to the media about their constant bias.
What are the rules about “tapping up” managers? I’m sure if there are any, there willl be considerable scope for discretion by the SFA and burden of proof issues.
Us dons fans however are rightly suspicious that something ain’t right, and although we can like every other team blow it on occasion and often against glasgow teams, the recent selections and tactics dont show DM in a good light if he does leave – “suspicious” will then not be the appropriate word we’ll be using though…
bad capt madmanDecember 6, 2017 at 00:35
‘…Us dons fans however are rightly suspicious that something ain’t right, and although we can like every other team blow it on occasion and often against glasgow teams, the recent selections and tactics dont show DM in a good light if he does leave’
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Well, what’s a guy to do, when the SMSM insist, demand, and emphatically assert ( BBC Radio Scotland) that he and he alone is the saviour of TRFC Ltd?
Except seize the opportunity to improve himself, line his pockets in the way that certain charlatans lined their pockets by the Big Lie, and two fingers to sporting integrity, club loyalty,or decent respect for folk who had paid his wages, only to find , perhaps, that they had been paying a quisling.
Not saying that that is the scenario. Only that it might conceivably be so.
And not one sleazy, compromised ‘journalist’ in our SMSM will dare ask any relevant question.
A couple of other observations from the latest BDO Creditors report.
BDO’s time costs for the whole of the Liquidation period are now at £4.4m and that doesn’t include any legal costs.
The total amount of money they have gathered from all sources amounts to £29.65m. However there was only £14.1m left in the creditors pot, so you can see that more than half the funds have already gone without 1p going to the creditors, with further costs still to be racked up.
Sorry for straying into club territory here, but as a dons fan, I think DM has been seriously damaged by all this and that’s why I think a disrepute charge against TRFC is appropriate.
However – if he has no intention of leaving, as he and the chairman have said, then he’s been seen to fail under the pressure. When he could have used the same attacking tactics against TRFC as other teams have and succeeded, instead he’s looked like a rabbit in headlights, minimising our strengths. Constant selection changes also seem to weaken the team, and DM now appears damaged goods not able to deliver when really necessary against our main rivals.
Given these failings, why would TRFC want him?
I feel sorry for the guy but he should have overtly said he’s not interested during the lifetime of his contract – or until AFC sack him. At least one dons fan site has rumours that the players think he’ll leave (and take some with him later- McLean?) and he’s lost the dressing room.
If he does stay he has work to do to regain trust.
If he goes, well the trust was obviously misplaced, and DM will be seen in the same light as Ryan Jack, or worse.
If this was a cunning plan by an opposition team, then a disrepute charge it is, or should be – and bad show DM for falling for it and not commiting to AFC more strongly much earlier.
I’m guessing there must be lots going on behind the scenes, WRT McInnes?
And IF TRFC does genuinely want him – and he genuinely wants to go to Ibrox – then the only option left is for him to resign?
Then signing for TRFC would seem like a pretty obvious breach of contract?
Another court case could be added to the list for TRFC.
BUT, King would have his manager now and then have time to negotiate with the Dons to avoid legal fees – and at the very least delay further expenses he can’t afford?
It would be rather unedifying behaviour from a Scottish club…and would the SFA react?
(Caveat of course is that it’s just more Level42 boll#x as TRFC just can’t afford McInnes anyway?)
BIG PINKDECEMBER 5, 2017 at 22:59
Under terms of McInnes’s contract, I believe Aberdeen can’t refuse permission to speak to him IF the compensation amount is offered AND paid upfront. If talks between Rangers and McInnes are unsuccessful, the cash is returned.
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According to today’s Daily Record Aberdeen ‘turned down a cheque for £1M’. I’m guessing if £1M had genuinely been offered McInnes would be having talks with Rangers today. The Record goes on to exclusively reveal McInnes will resign to join Rangers. Surely in that case Rangers must be guilty of illegally tapping a Manager under contract, and can also be ordered by the SFA to pay the amount of compensation due under the terms of the contract.
This matter is being handled in an utterly appalling fashion by the Rangers board, and if we had a media who were willing to call them out for it rather than help facilitate the move they would not get away with it. If McInnes resigns Aberdeen can of course report Rangers to the SFA, but perhaps they want to avoid a points deduction and a heavy fine for bringing the game into disrepute!
On a serous note such matters have precedent. Fergus McCann believed when Tommy Burns resigned from Kilmarnock in 1994 to join Celtic he was simply exercising his right to move job. The SFA fined Celtic £100k for tapping Burns and ordered them to pay Kilmarnock £200K. I’m willing to bet what McInnes is on at Aberdeen is way above what Burns earned at Kilmarnock in 1994. Compensation aside I’m also willing to bet the SFA would not fine Rangers anything like £100k for tapping McInnes, if anything at all.
Whatever the outcome of the McInnes Saga, there can be little doubt that Aberdeen have been weakened as a result of it. Regardless of whether or not it had any effect on Aberdeen’s performance in the last two matches, the uncertainty of McInnes’ loyalty for the rest of the season must have a detrimental effect on the team and everyone within the club and it’s supporters.
What we are seeing now is not just as a result of the SMSM’s total support for this new club, it is also the result of the meek and unchallenging acceptance of the big lie by all the other clubs, allowing people like McInnes to be fooled/allow themselves to be fooled into believing they are being hunted by the ‘Rangers’ McInnes, himself, once played for. Surely, by now, Stewart Milne must be asking himself why he has been so ready to go against the wishes of his club’s supporters, choosing, instead, to aid the game’s governors in the support they’ve given to the club that replaced the biggest bunch of cheats our game has ever seen.
It’s not just Stewart Milne, of course, who should be questioning the wisdom of accepting the big lie and turning a blind eye to all that has happened to assist the new club (the unquestioning acceptance of TRFC’s fit and proper status as an example), for this is just the beginning!
I do hope that Stewarts Milne, whatever the outcome of this saga, tells the Aberdeen supporters exactly what he thinks of TRFC’s disruptive methods, what they offered and how they intended paying it, and the media’s part in it all.
Hopefully he makes a complaint to the game’s governors – and also tells the world exactly how they react!
I think Kings/Traynors tactic is to get McInnes unpopular with the Aberdeen fans so that Milne accepts a low offer just to get rid and move on.
Pretty sure there’s no turning back now and he’ll be gone. Hopefully before Friday nights game in Dundee.
To me McInnes doesn’t come out of this too well as he’s been sleekit . Saying one thing in public while obviously discussing all things Rangers with their representatives.
Anyway nobody is bigger than the club
Re McInnes/Rangers
This situation reminds me of 1983 when the mighty Glasgow Rangers approached Jim McLean to take over from a failing John Greig – everyone in the media then assumed Jim would go (he was offered twice the salary he was getting at United) he went up the marble staircase had the interview & to his eternal credit told them where to shove it ! (This was after the job was offered to Alex Ferguson first of all who also knocked it back ) – two v.successful managers of “provincial” clubs similar , in a way to McInnes’ situation to-day .
Difficult one to call (for McInnes) but his reputation would be enhanced if he stays at Aberdeen I think & the risks of Ibrox (financial/ownership) are considerable .
Another cracker from C Jack in the Herald,”It is understood that the Gers opted to do the honourable thing and wait until after the Premiership double-header with Aberdeen last week before making an official approach for the Reds boss.”
While I think you may be right about this, the question is how do you prove it and who will pursue it even if some proof is found
The Football authorities will be unwilling and the thing is Rangers have always been able to “tap” people they want without using the usual under the table methods. They have the whole SMSM to do that for them.
My own feeling is while McInnes may have been a wished for target they may have already decided they can’t afford him, however the process has undermined a key opponent. An official approach (one in which apparently they were unwilling to upfront the money as required) can be seen as them justifying what they did retrospectively.
They may even believe there’s an outside chance with the SMSM help they can force Aberdeen to drop their demand for all the money upfront and that McInnes will jump ship. But their main object will already have been achieved regardless.
AJ said
This with nobs on.
EB said
Just as a suggestion you could try googling ‘McInnes’ and ‘Big game pressure’
Thankfully you have reams of press copy critically analysing whether McInnes really is the man for the job for you to fall back on – that is the job YOU want him to do.
Double thankfully your club(s) don’t have a history (obvious joke – avoid avoid), a history of throwing the toys out of the pram and blaming everyone but yourselves for not recognising and dealing with what was staring you straight in the face.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, a nasty world with laws and other technical stuff. What would be the situation if talks fall through for whatever reason but McInnes does want to leave? Him wanting to leave infers that talks have concluded from his poijt of view – he is happy with the package on offer. The only stumbling point therefore can only be the release clause? Presumably he then resigns. Presumably one of two parties pays the recognised compensation/release clause fee else why would you have it? Those parties being: McInnes himself buying out his contract or McInnes again being sued for breach of contract. Secondary to this, were AFC to go down the route of legal action for breach of contract can McInnes manage the purchasing club in the meantime?
One is forced to wonder.
When Dave King publicly admitted there was going to be a £4m shortfall in Rangers income this year and that he would cover it, did he include the cost of getting rid of the manager, and his staff, and the cost of bringing in a new manager, and his staff.
If not then I think it is reasonable to infer that there would be a further say £2m involved in that process. Meaning that Rangers would be looking at losses of something in the region of £6m this year.
Again.
It take a bold, naive or idiotic person to suggest that Rangers don’t have financial issues just now.
I do not see Dave King as a particularly intelligent man, his dealings with proper authorities, SARS, SA Courts, UK Courts etc., show that, but when it comes to fooling the gullible, like the SFA, SPFL, Rangers/TRFC supporters etc., he is a master of the art of the confidence trickster. He seems to be particularly good at the big con, carrying it out at arms length, where he manages to get a fawning media to do his bidding, while turning a blind eye to what is really going on. His use of the more thuggish element of the Ibrox support, particularly in his takeover bid, is another example of him getting other people to actually do the work (intimidation).
His latest con trick has the hallmark of genius. For regardless of the outcome, he has managed to do so much in his own favour, at no cost to himself, and only a little to TRFC, by barely lifting a finger.
We’ve already covered the damage done to Aberdeen – and it is ongoing damage, not a one off, but look at the benefits to himself and TRFC. He’s successfully shifted much of the attention away from the Report and Accounts and the AGM, and most importantly for himself, kept his personal failures and lies out of the news (except here on the internet). But I believe these are just collateral benefits from the main aim of the saga, which was to give the bears the impression that TRFC have money to burn on a new manager, whether or not they are successful and bring McInnes to Ibrox. There can be little doubt that the majority now believe that not only do they have close to £1m to get that new manager, they will be convinced whoever gets the job will have millions to spend in the next transfer window.
Now the chairmen/women of most football clubs would be aware of the fact that come January they would have huge expectations to live up to; but not Dave King. For him it’s all about playing for time, in the hope that something turns up, but if it doesn’t, he’ll again utilise his mates in the press and spin it as a positive. And the bears will buy it!
BallyargusDecember 6, 2017 at 09:29Another cracker from C Jack in the Herald,”It is understood that the Gers opted to do the honourable thing and wait until after the Premiership double-header with Aberdeen last week before making an official approach for the Reds boss.”
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I know, I saw that earlier! Some of the stuff spouted by Chris (union) Jack these past weeks has been beyond belief.
My take on the saga is that it stinks, stinks to high heaven! The SMSM, including and maybe particularly the BB effin C, stated from day 1 that McInnes was the preferred candidate so basically doing Sevco’s dirty work and destabilising Aberdeen. I believe D McInnes has been “sleekit” as BILL 1903 says and does not come out of this well. His body language over the past weeks has sent messages.
We really are in a no win position. If we try to hold on to a manager who no longer wants to be at the club that will end in tears. I have no problem with him leaving and, as posted here a few days ago, always thought that would be the outcome, but the whole way in which the thing has been handled, as I say, stinks.
I hope that when we move for another manager that if that is someone who is in a job currently that we do it properly with respect for all concerned.
Quite literally. His task list is essentially:
Make transfer moves to look like billy big baws. You never know it might flush out a sheikh. (note to self – caution against shaking out a (busted) flush).
Find Money for this from somewhere, anywhere.
Get to Share issue *(note to self – how do you do these with my record)
Use share issue to sort loan problem re licence.
Use share issue to dilute out club tropicana
Send Email to James reminding him he’s to ransom club Tropicana to maintain their share %age equals cash to me, sorry, us.
Set up Email to James as ‘recurrent’
Has King also signed a ~24m personal guarantee then?
” … if the business had serious financial issues …”
I would love to see the argument which tries to suggest that it doesn’t have serious financial issues.
A PLC which has posted trading losses in every year of it’s existence and which has admitted it will be doing the same this year, and next. Which will have to have a £20m share issue just to pay off loans. Which has no proper banking facilities and no line of credit other than it’s own shareholders. In fact it seems all but one shareholder has had enough, and that one is a convicted fraudster, so hardly what one would describe as a certainty to make good on his promises.
If that’s not serious financial issues I don’t know what is.
Rangers told their support that they were taking applications / CVs which they were considering and would be looking to interview suitable candidates.
If I remember correctly they said that they were waiting until the Friday of that week before deciding what to do.
That being the case, and the fact that they have now approached Aberdeen to speak to their manager I can only really think of a couple of explanations.
1, No-one suitable applied.
2, They were lying to the support.
From that bastion of honesty
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/rangers/15654956.Rangers_have_received__numerous_applications__for_manager_s_job_but_haven_t_interviewed_any_Ibrox_candidates/
10th November
Rangers have received ‘numerous applications’ for manager’s job but haven’t interviewed any Ibrox candidates
Christopher Jack @Chris_Jack89
Group Senior Sports Writer
A statement read: “The club confirms that since the departure of Pedro Caixinha it has received numerous applications for the now vacant position and is anticipating further applications by the end of next week.
“The Club will then consider all viable options available to it. At this time the Club has not interviewed any candidate and will take its time to ensure that the best possible decision is made.”
Or put another way
They have just said to Derek McInnes, “We couldn’t get anybody good, do you fancy it”
Or again, they were lying.
On loans.
Dave King has said he has access to funds. Presumably more than the additional £7m he has promised. He wouldn’t lend every penny he has to a loss making business surely.
He has also talked about providing funds to a new manager. We can only assume that would be reasonably substantial sums. Maybe not in football terms but in normal terms. Certainly a million or two i would have thought.
He has also told the Court of Session that he cannot make an offer to buy shares because of his current impecuniosity.
Sorry to carry on with this “lying” motif, however it can’t all be true … can it.
EB
Craig Whyte had nothing to lose? You mean apart from the personal guarantee he issued to Ticketus that was subsequently used to bankrupt him personally including losing him his house (castle). You mean apart from that he had nothing to lose.