Comment on Whose assets are they anyway? by Methilhill Stroller.
CO – I think you are right in that my understanding of what Brown said was that there was no club, just a pile of assets which Sevco bought. Whether D&P gave the assets the right or wrong value is, I suspect, going to be part of a detailed legal discussion at an upcoming court case so will say no more on the subject.
As for “over-spending” I don’t think it matters as long as those concerned have the wherewithal to cover such costs – people usually think Real Madrid and Barcelona always overspend and (subject to any assistance from Spanish authorities) they do at least have massive income streams. Whatever DCK or his PR guff people write/say, we are not talking about over-spending here.
We are talking about what now appears (subject to appeal for now) massive tax evasion, questionable borrowing from banks, failure to disclose side letters/information, stuffing 260 odd creditors, EBT’s going beyond the football club, and a blatant cover up from the administrators of our sport that cannot be allowed to go unpunished (5-way agreements for which there was no provision in the rules), the Bryson rule (for which there was no “common sense” – with thanks to the Lordships), armageddon, attempts to put Sevco in the SPL, then championship, acceptance of alleged “fit and proper” persons, certain clubs suffered when others did not. Did I forget the lamb munchers?
At least FIFA, World Athletics, Cricket, Baseball, Cycling etc are being seen to take the correctional steps needed so why not Football in Scotland? Until those who are responsible for the offences and those who allowed to it both happen and seemingly continue to facilitate [and do nothing about the problem] are kicked out of our game we can never move on.
At least in the past week or so we have seen a light at the end of the tunnel. My only hope that for the bampots it is a light to a brighter future and for those responsible for this farce throughout the years it is an express train coming toward them!!!
Whose assets are they anyway?
Torrejohnbhoy that was exactly my thought process yesterday.
Whose assets are they anyway?
Mr Brown made it very clear that CG could not be a CEO of a football club. He also made it clear that Sevco only bought the assets of oldco – and if I remember rightly there was also a statement to the effect that this was a very risky strategy because Sevco bought the assets without actually having a guarantee of a football club playing anywhere (for that I read senior or junior football).
The argument seems to be that CG then, having acquired the assets, then proceeded along the way to reach certain agreements (some 5-way as it transpires) so as to allow a team called Sevco (later Rangers) to play Brechin, Peterhead, East Fife etc and along the way put the corporate structure together by 14 June to enable CG to be CEO – and note CG’s agreement was, according to the twitter feeds yesterday, backdated to 1 June.
If I have understood the proceedings correctly then Mr Brown seems to have made a sensible case. Whether Lord Doherty thinks so, and whether he provides a positive or negative answer before the next CG case, will be worth waiting for.
Whose assets are they anyway?
Agree totally. Hampden bunker completely compromised, media telling lies, Ibrox threatening everyone in sight (again), but it seems the club chairmen/women seem to want to let the enemy kill themselves. Admittedly they seem to be doing a very good job at the moment.
Still wondering when DCK gets hauled into the CW/CG/Duffer & Duffer case (can’t forget the late Corsica’s question about the “coincidental” Switzerland meeting) and will be interested to see what happens to the SFA/SPFL (CO, SR, ND etc etc). JC – if you find the compliance officer please wake him up, take the blindfold off, and maybe [ahem] lodge a complaint.
As for what happens next I don’t think any of us will be surprised – and for those of us over 40 this still probably has more twists than Chubby Checker and Sam Cooke put together.
42 tax convictions – 42 senior clubs – surely no coincidence!!!! I’ll get the hat and coat. TGIF.
Small Price to Pay?
In respect of the Dundee United issue I do not think they could now simply apply as a new member.
At the time SEVCO applied for membership there was no promotion/relegation system in place from League 2 to the lower leagues. Somewhere in my memory is a thought that those at Hampden used this last year ability to let SEVCO apply and get into League 2 before promotion/relegation was introduced as leverage to get support from the clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 specifically – the rules might have even been changed so that promotion/relegation was delayed for a year? It was something like that with the added “bonus” of hoping for increased match revenues exceeding the costs of additional policing and related damage repair costs as a result of SEVCO supporters presence in their ground!
That said if a new club/Club is allowed to apply for membership out of the ether, without 3 years accounts, without any financial plan, or even history (not forgetting 276 stiffed creditors left behind), then if my club, with a long history in Scottish Football, found itself needing to “re-apply” then at the very least I would insist on being included in play-offs with the Highland and Lowland League winners, plus bottom of League 2 joining my team in a semi-final and then final. I suspect, it my team were DUFC and the players had not all left by that time (obviously a risk but…), they would win the play-offs in a canter so worth thinking about for any team that finishes in any other position than bottom of League 2. What was good for SEVCO must be good enough for the other 41 clubs/Clubs and at least my club/Club could argue they did play-off for the right to be in League 2 rather than be given it under a dodgy agreement! Whether you could place a bet on DUFC relegation is an argument for another court!
Those at Hampden saw a chance to get SEVCO into the league structure but their short term aims to accommodate SEVCO have set various precedents and [5-way] agreements whereby the rules could be changed to suit SEVCO, so why can the rules not be changed for all of the other 41 clubs – I still laugh at that number being the same as the number of the DCK’s convictions for being a mendacious witness and a glib and shameless liar whose evidence should not be believed unless it is in writing!!!! How true that judgment is even today.
I am not saying the Fraudco case will not go ahead, just that even if it does the result could well end up the same as all the recent court cases with the “hoped for” result not being forthcoming. We all hope for some red flag to come up and wobble the establishment but recent events don’t make it an expectation worth backing.
On a separate subject I have just heard that Paul Lambert is resigning from Blackburn Rovers at the end of this season. Obviously he was unlikely to do so unless he has somewhere to go – like Celtic? Maybe not the high profile manager some would hope for but……………who knows?
The fact that SARS probably gave what was effectively a Tax Clearance Certificate is nothing new in RSA or elsewhere on that continent. All it means is that the person is currently up to date with their tax returns. What it does not say is that he previously had 41 convictions and if he had not paid the 40m fine he would have been in jail for 82 years. The SFA lawyer saying there was never any chance of DCK going to jail was talking out of his arsenal IMHO.
And I notice JD said the SFA Lawyer mentioned that SFA fit and Proper person criteria were confidential???? So basically they can, as they have done so many times, and no doubt did so in the case of DCK, make it up on a case by case basis and then tell everyone they did it properly without ever having to show such evidence to the clubs, fans, or general public, unless so directed by a court. The fact that MA’s lawyer did not challenge any of this convinces me that another deal has been struck, the SFA instructed DCK to provide the required information under threat of whatever, and the parties sorted it out between themselves and screw the lot of us.
So another day goes by and another case comes to nothing and expectation and enthusiasm drops through the five floors below again. The problem with Hillsborough was that fans in those days were treated like they didn’t matter and the police attempt to blame hooligans and drunk fans was just typical of what they and the establishment thought of us; and then they tried to use it as an excuse to cover up their own mistakes. Thankfully the Liverpool fans and families of the 96 got what they deserved after 27 years of battling the establishment and at least there is now an admission of the massive cover up with the police and media implicated, and no doubt people in Government as well. Let’s hope, like Kenny implied, those responsible are trembling about what might come down the tunnel in their general direction. I say might because I will only be convinced that proper corrective and disciplinary action has been taken when I see it. We can also dream that a similar fate will befall the SFA, SPFL and the MSM but I am not holding my breath.
It also cannot be sufficient for a club like CFC to think a meeting with the odd shareholder/supporter here and there is sufficient – they have had AGM’s and other opportunities to send a clear unequivocal message out to all CFC fans, and the rest of the clubs, about what they have or are still doing about res 12 and yet have not done so. I suppose they are hoping the people they speak to will spread the message but in my view it is again symptomatic of CFC and other clubs taking the punters for a ride. I have seen many comments here and elsewhere by fans saying that if they give up ST’s then others (mainly Sevco) will benefit and win more trophies. Well that is their right but they should also accept that if they pay up then nothing will change and they might as well watch WWE because the game will remain fixed. Directors are only in it for the money and will not wake up until they are hurt in the pocket. If thousands of CFC fans do not renew ST’s then a clear message will be sent and if it levels the playing field, and more of our diddy clubs win trophies, then they get exactly what they deserve.
I can see the Fraudco trial going the same way as all the other cases this year, and SFA/UEFA letting Sevco into the Europa Cup if they beat Hibs in the final. The only disappointment is that after the final East Fife will not be the only club outside of Scotland’s top division to win the Scottish Cup . Nothing would surprise us and anything different will come as a surprise to the system. In the meantime there are still no compelling reasons to put any money into any club’s pockets, no matter how well they do, until they extract the digit and get rid of the administrators ruining the game for all of us.
Have been reading but not posted for a long time. I see even the Clumpany saw the need to come out of retirement and highlight the result of the Hillsborough verdict – justice for the 96 indeed. I am sure many of us can remember where we were that sad day.
I have seen the concerns about a drop in numbers on SFM and I think it is fair to say that with no court cases of late it has got a bit dull. Celtic have been extremely poor, Rangers have scraped past the joiners and plumbers to join the Premiership and at least Fife is represented in winning two titles this season! We have a strong Dunfermline and East Fife.
But the Hampden bunker remains filled with the same people hiding away from reality – it has taken the families of the 96 a total of 27 (twenty seven) years to get justice from the cover up of lies and self preservation of those in power. One can only hope that we do not have to wait that long for Scottish Football to rid itself of the curse of p*ss poor administrators. The clubs have to share some of the burden because they put them in place but sooner or later even the likes of Celtic find that their fans are walking away in numbers and their owner suddenly wants to know why?
I suppose it should not be a shock to anyone that the owner only notices if the cash starts reducing and wants to know why. I suspect many owners in the game today might just get a tad worried that what is happening to Celtic might just happen to them to if they keep their heads in the sand and hope it all goes away. As JC would say “hell mend em”.
I hope club owners are watching the Celtic situation and start waking up and smell the coffee because fans have had enough. There was no armageddon and whilst the cups have been shared around, some attendances risen, and most clubs on an even financial keel, one hopes they do not return to trying to bankrupt themselves because a new team has got to the Premiership. The clubs and SPFL/SFA should realize that nobody is going to stick around forever and watch a fraudulent game.
Here’s hoping for a stronger Arbroath and even stronger East Fife next season.
Look Back to Look Forward
Been busy but not commented for a while but have read plenty. Auldheid and team have done a great job and been persistent but the Board not being able to get to SFA or UEFA themselves and wanting others to do it is shameful.
I agree that all the clubs are at fault because, apart from the late Turnbull Hutton’s intervention, they have done nothing else and all seem intent on having the blue pound back (although this time maybe learning lessons and trying not to break the bank of every club trying to compete).
However there is always a twist in the tale of every good movie so as it is Friday I wondered what could possibly go wrong. Imagine if UEFA do take an interest and investigate and found out about the scale of the deceit and as a consequence:
a) Banned Sevco/Rangers for many years; as they did with Malaga, Galatasaray and others but probably for longer
b) Banned Celtic from Europe for a number of years for not reporting what they knew (and any implied involvement in the cover up); and
c) Banned the Scotland national team from Europe because of the SFA/SPFL ineptitude/license issue and everything else they find in the Hampden bunker?
I know it is far fetched and that all other Scottish clubs might also get banned (hopefully not though which in itself would be ironic) but imagine the fall out of that. Where would the Celtic Board, SFA/SPFL and the shyster board (credit JJ) turn to cover their embarrassment? It might mean Scottish Football has to start again – armageddon – they would have called it right after all. Who would have thought it?
Then again with Dunblane being the world tennis champs and the rugby team slowly starting to improve, there is maybe an alternative on the horizon. Of course Andy losing to the Joker when they play Serbia in the next round and the inevitable media inquest on a 3-2 loss would probably be enough for him to tell them to stuff it as well, and relegation will follow quickly thereafter. It was only going to be short term anyway!
Onto cycling, …. Sir Chris….oh you retired………you on the bike………………………..ice hockey anyone?? TGIF