Comment on Whose assets are they anyway? by GoosyGoosy.
From jj sitonthefence
A Gers minded poster with integrity who would grace any blog
Gordo RFC (@gordorfc1)says:November 13, 2015 at 12:37 pmJJ
Since we went into Administration and in leading up to it even, I remember calling for the Club/Company to come clean and to make a fresh start, by accepting fair punishment but standing up when it felt unjustly treated. I still stand by that and feel we must stand up and defend ourselves when all around want to squash and ridicule us.We have missed golden opportunities since administration to put our house in order, to build a better club, a club we can be proud to say has been rebuilt from the train wreck that was left when we were at our lowest ebb, but we have missed that boat by a long way and continue to stumble from one crisis to the next and with no end in sight, its very disheartening for honest loyal fans who pay hard earned cash and time to support the club.
When Murray took over from Marlborough all those years ago we all thought it was a simple natural progression as clubs all around were going down this ‘new ownership’ route, courting huge investments from those who could afford it. That’s what we believed we were getting when one of, if not the, richest man in the country at the time, took us over and promised huge investment and he had the companies and the clout to deliver. Too good to be true, it couldn’t be any better and things were looking great. Take the arrival of Souness and a raft of huge names and we were flying high….winning and playing and attracting investment and sponsors to match our standing.When Auchenhowie was first opened, my very on son was one of the first apprentices in the door and with the Dutch managing team things were looking fantastic for us, Gazza, Laudrup, Alberts, Tugay ….the big names kept on coming and life was great. I am as guilty, and innocent, as ANY Gers fan at the time in seeing us blossoming into a really big club within Europe, never quite getting as far as we should, but competing every year and a real feel good factor about the club.All of us, while loving what we were getting for our money, were complicit in questioning just how we were being funded and run, but it wasn’t our place to question it…we had a Board of Directors who would be looking after our interests and who would not allow things that shouldn’t happen….hell I can barely remember Hugh Adam leaving, never mind his old statements around what was going on, I mean why should I, we, any of us, we had a very rich owner and a Board that were honest true hard working for the good of the club……or so we thought.
Does it make us, Rangers fans, bad or weak or anything else for not questioning things earlier…..I don’t think so, I think we were football fans and enjoying a huge resurgence in the game similar to what was happening down in England. We, the fans, were not responsible for the idiocy and greed of those who were in charge of running the club, they were honest ‘Rangers men’ with the best job in the world and we trusted them to deliver. That’s how I remember those days and how it came as a huge shock when Murray’s web started to unpick its self.
If your honest, you can say we were had, by a con man, walking into it eyes wide shut and accepting it as a god given gift. So when things started going wrong and Murray was pretending to be the ‘Honest man’ caring for the club, not selling to who he thought was not the ‘right man’ …again we believed him and took him at face value, I mean lets face it having owned us for all those years and giving us so much pleasure, why would he do anything to harm us? We were let down then by a number of people, and while they are note solely responsible for what happened, being complicit at the time has cost us almost everything.
The first ones under the spotlight for being complicit are of course our Board of Directors, those custodians we had in place to ensure our club was being run properly and everything was being done to rectify what was happening….oh wait a minute, ummmm no they were not doing that….they were dodging every question and deserting like rats from a sinking ship….lets face it…they were more complicit than anyone to believe and accept Whyte in the door…….where was their due- diligence on the next owner of our club? How much probing and investigating did they actually do…..or did they just take Murray’s word at face value that Whyte was the best man to take us forward? Again…what can we fans do, our Board of Directors wouldn’t do anything to harm the club…honest Rangers men and all.
The second who must be fingered for not doing their duty is the Football Authorities who knew the in’s and outs of the whole thing, had access to all accounts and how the club was being run and also had a Fit & Proper criteria that should and would catch out any ‘used car salesmen’ …oh ummm no it didn’t, in fact quite the reverse…..they couldn’t wait to usher in a Jim Traynor approved man with “Wealth off the radar” into Ibrox…tv deals needed the Old Firm to be strong and competing…just what they needed was a real rich Ranger man in.
The third who must be fingered at this time are surely the media, who should have had the balls to do investigative work and to use their contacts in London to verify and back up this ‘unknown Scottish billionaire’ ……ummm, don’t you think a small country like Scotland would have known and heard of such a wealthy man before he arrived? ummmmm smell a rat there even? But no, the red carpet was out and Whyte was heralded in as the new saviour of the club. Were we, the fans to blame for this? No, but I think we should have been far more vocal and asked who, what how…..but all we heard was ‘mega rich, loads of cash to invest’ and anyway…we had a Board of Directors elected to keep our club on the straight and narrow.
Fast forward to Green and I, like I would say the vast majority of fans, were delighted he rode into town when he did, if he hadn’t, we wouldn’t be here now in any form or guise, and that is a fact. All the so called hugely wealthy Rangers men with deep pockets, and very short arms, stayed away….scared by the up coming tax cases. So Green did save us, whether you like the man or not, he was what was required at the time and we all bought into that, we were desperate and needed to survive. The fact that he was in it for one reason and one reason only, didn’t diminish most peoples thanks, yes once back on our feet we could get him out and get someone with Rangers in their heart in to run us properly…for the fans.
And so today we are where? Another criminal in charge of the club, and this one is a convicted criminal, who with his fellow side-kicks have systematically destroyed what little in the way of credibility we had in the financial markets by delisting us from AIM and alienating anyone who could aide us in our quest to move the club forwards. We have a Board, who, like those in the past, are real Rangers men, who would never do anything to harm the club, hmmmm , where have I heard that again!!!We have a club and Board of Directors being hauled through every court in the land for various fiscal and criminal offences, with custodial sentences a distinct possibility for some. We have a club with no funding, despite wild promises about vast sums of money, ummmm where did I hear that again? We have a chairman with wealth off the radar…ummm where have I heard that again?? We have a complicit Footballing Authority allowing a criminal to be Chairman of the club, ummmmm where have I heard that before? We have a media who will not investigate and or tell the truth about those running our club….ummm where have I heard that again? We have honest fans who are not switched on with these things and know our board will do the very best for us….ummm NO. This time our fans are guilty, and the blame in part lies on them for the state we find ourselves in now….and there is no hiding from that one.
Our chairman, from his SA bunker is lobbing grenades over the wall and ducking down again and our fans are hanging on his every false claim and bluster statements doing nothing at this time but bring scorn on us from everyone. There are ways of saying things, and times to say them, our Glib & Shameless is complicit and stupid and takes things to a whole new level of stupidity. I agree we must defend things, what’s the point of surviving if you do not stand up for what the vast majority of fans think…..but you don’t lob a grenade like he did with that ridiculous statement yesterday.My guess is this is part of his big ‘sweep and deflect’ tactics again, moving attention to things that at this moment are really second in line to what is happening and being said in court…..and the up and coming court cases in which our Glib & Shameless will be in the dock, along with what bombshells come out at the EGM…..again I feel he is rallying his troops to deflect from what is coming out.
So, are we, the fans guilty for EBT’s, administration and Green….no we are not, but we most certainly are guilty of supporting the regime now in Ibrox, doing their best for the fans and the club like always….ummmm where have I heard that before?
Whose assets are they anyway?
A lateral thought
Does the clean up of Scottish football coincide with the best interest of Sports Direct ?
Whose assets are they anyway?
MASH Holdings v SFA – 4 February 2016 @ Court of Session – Request for judicial review of the SFA’s FPP decision on Dave King.
Herse a speculative view
4 Feb 2016 is a long time away
Before then we are in for an eventful two months
Scottish football governance started to unravel today
Today’s press release saying they will defend the DCK fit and proper court action was meant to be a holding statement. But the wording revealed more than just panic.
Since you can`t defend the indefensible, the statement strongly suggests they intend to settle out of court long before it come back to bite them on the proverbial.
Settling out of court means:
they intend to abandon their OTT support for DCK and TRFC
which in turn means they have decided to clean the stable,
which in turn means head rolling at the SFA/SPFL is very likely
which in turn means there is light at the end of the tunnel of integrity
Some or all of the following significant events
BDO will announce they are not appealing the decision of the Law Lords
SFA President Alex McRae will adopt a more public role as spokesman for the SFA. Regan will fade into the background
McRae will announce that a new Commission of Enquiry is to be set up to review the implications on the LNS Review of the Law Lords decision.
The Terms of Reference will include evidence hidden from the first LNS review like the Small Tax Case. The Bryson interpretation of SFA rules on eligibility will also be revisited. Transparency will be promised during the Commission hearings. It will be clear from the ToR that a new broom is in charge.
Regan may well resign before the Commission have their first meeting.
King will resign from TRFC before the Contempt of Court case on 9 Dec.This will not cause Ashley to withdraw his fit and proper challenge to the SFA. That will be saved for later.
Both TRFC and RIFC will be declared insolvent by the RIFC Board. All Directors will then resign.
A respected Administrator will be appointed. His initial act will be to declare that liquidation may be more appropriate than administration if a CVA buyer does not emerge quickly
All saleable TRFC players will be put up for sale.
Warburton will be the sole management representative of the football club working closely with the Administrator to save the business. He will be the only senior TRFC figure to emerge with credit from the whole debacle
Ashley will continue to say nothing
At a crucial stage in the Administration
Ashley surrogate Sarver (Ashley) will re-appear as the only potential saviour in town
Sarver (Ashley) will play extremely hard to get with the support
He will set out conditions for rescuing TRFC via a CVA or asset purchase and Newco
These will include:
Publicly declaring TRFC has always been a Newco and is a separate entity to Oldco
-And therefore a Sarver(Ashley) TRFC or a Sarver(Ashley) TRFC2
-Should be penalised 15pts not 25pts for insolvency
-Will not defend any of the religious discrimination and tax evasion policies applied by RFC plc
-Will not oppose any sanctions applied to RFC (IL) by the new Commission of Enquiry
-Will consult with major Creditors and fan groups and require their support before making a CVA offer
-Will agree to Ashleys commercial position with Rangers Retail continuing unchanged
-Will promise to pursue offshore Spivs in court until legal fees exhaust their will to live
The good news will be that most of Scottish football will respond positively
The bad news is that at least half the support will respond with an ST boycott despite winning promotion through the playoffs
Whose assets are they anyway?
If BDO appeal, RFC(IL) incur additional legal costs
They also prolong the length of the liquidation period thereby making more fees for themselves
Both factors will definitely reduce the size of the creditor pot versus the not appealing situation
On the other hand a successful appeal would increase the dividend for all creditors except HMRC
The fairest solution would be to ask RFC Creditors to vote on whether an appeal should be mounted.
For the purposes of the vote HMRC should be requested to either abstain or to restrict their voting “weight” i.e. “debt” to the situation that applied prior to the latest decision
Launch of SFSA Fans’ Survey
JULY 28, 2017 at 11:42
I really think that the SFSA could – and should – grasp an opportunity like the SPFL statement to assume a moral leadership of fans of Scottish football. I’m not sure what it is they hope to provide in terms of moral authority if they are not fearless enough to address directly the biggest and still evolving scandal the game has seen. I am hoping that like Celtic, they are taking time to respond. The question is, how can they ignore it?
Its not all that difficult
.At their next Board meeting the current SFSA Board should vote on whether they are prepared to make upholding sporting integrity the prime goal of their Mission Statement. All other goals will be subservient to this aim. Key Performance Indicators should then be developed to measure whether the governing bodies are upholding integrity going forward. Regular reports should be emailed to members when, as we expect corruption continues to be manifest in mismanagement of current rules and the law of the land. However The SFSA should avoid public involvement on any topic until they have a fully functioning democratically elected Board comprised of Fan Directors.
The focus on integrity should automatically make resolving corruption the number one goal for the immediate term. It would enable an umbrella coalition to be established between the SFSA and other groups solely responsible for pursuing the Judicial Review route. The idea would be that the SFSA address an d measure progress on long term implications of removing the elephant while the rest of the coalition get on with shoving it out the window
Steps should be taken immediately to introduce democracy to SFSA using as a voter roll the names of all those for whom they have email addresses. Groups claiming to represent many unnamed members should be charged with adding them to the email voters roll by a target cut off date. The election of Fan Shadow Directors to overlap with the current Board should proceed on a democratic basis shortly after the cut off date. Whether this is by direct election or through some temporary representative body should be thought through and voted on by email.
The views of the Celtic Board are no longer relevant
They had the opportunity to stand up and be counted .Instead they cooperated by their silence in a disgraceful, unethical and shameless strategy. Their focus now should be removing Bro Walfrids Statue from Celtic Park before it falls over in shame
Launch of SFSA Fans’ Survey
AULDHEIDJULY 27, 2017 at 22:11
Goosey GooseyWhen there is 0% chance of opening the door, 20% is worth backing.
Like I said
I`ve yet to meet the person with 80% integrity
Or put another way
I don`t trust people who have proven untrustworthy on an integrity issue on even one occasion
Sometimes I have no choice but to put my fate in their hands
Some worked out. Some didn`t work out
But because I had no choice I went along with it unwillingly
That wasn`t trust. It was Hobsons choice
When I have the choice not to trust them because there are other options
I don`t trust them and go for an alternative
Having said that
Its a free country (apart from what we both agree on)
People may put their trust in SFAS using whatever criteria they deem most important
For me when dealing with corruption there is zero room for compromise.
Its an issue of integrity, right or wrong ,good or evil, black or white
I won`t trust SFAS
So as I said before
Launch of SFSA Fans’ Survey
AULDHEIDJULY 27, 2017 at 21:32 goosygoosyJuly 27, 2017 at 20:38 (Edit)
Read my post about capacity building. Have you anything better to suggest be done in their place? Are you going to do the work those volunteers do or are you happy just to snoop and snipe?
i have great respect for you and your track record in opposing corruption
I am too long in the tooth now to believe platitudes without checking the facts. I am happy to contribute to a crowd funding initiative seeking a JR of the corruption associated with the recent past
I`m not snowed either by face to face meetings with people who have proven they lack integrity.
Thats a virtue you either have or you don`t have
I`ve yet to meet the person with 80% integrity
So as far as SFAS are concerned
Launch of SFSA Fans’ Survey
Oh Dear as PMG might say
I fear I may have tripped over a can of worms in my previous post at 14.56
Thinking back to the sterling work done by the combined efforts of talented posters on the RTC Blog
I thought it might be fun to have a look at SFSA in a bit more detail
Current Office address 4 Woodside Pl, Glasgow G3 7QL
If you Google Earth this address and postcode there`s a man walking along the pavement who looks awfully like a member of the SPFL. Can`t be sure of course as faces are blurred with Google Earth but the odd way of walking seems familiar.
It was enough to pique my curiosity so I had a look elsewhere on the web
Lo and behold
Up comes the following
Official Launch early April 2015
“The SFSA, which says it has reached 40,000 pledges of support from Scottish fans’ groups at club level, will include a national advisory group.
It will contain experts on football and governance matters, including former First Minister Henry McLeish and Maureen McGonigle, founder of Scottish Women in Sport, and from academia and the business world.
They will work with a football advisory group that so far includes fans from Aberdeen, Ayr United, Celtic, Dumbarton, Hearts and Rangers”
Does 40,000 pledges of support from a Club Group mean every member of that Club has registered an email address with SFSA?
Or does it mean one person from each supporters group registered on behalf of their members with or without their consent? Does this explain why the SFSA had 40000 members before it was launched ?
“Whereabouts on the current website can you find the names of the fans on the Advisory Group from Aberdeen, Ayr United, Celtic, Dumbarton, Hearts and Rangers”
Why are members of the Advisory Group selected by the unelected CEO and Chairman of the SFSA Board and not elected by the members?
The Fans’ Manifesto
Fans want change
Scottish football needs and deserves a future. As a movement of some 50,000 fans (and growing) the Scottish Football Supporters Association (SFSA) believes that it really is possible to renew, reform and reclaim the game. But the engine of that transformation has to be those who love and follow the game. That is what this Fans’ Manifesto is all about.
In 2015 we asked football supporters across Scotland what they wanted to see for the future. We got an amazing 10,000 responses.
Among the mass of ideas and comments there were aspirations large and small. In this document we have distilled some of the biggest ones, and combined them with ideas that have now been in circulation – buttressed by a number of other surveys – for some time. This Manifesto contains nine key pointers towards the future of football game in Scotland. It is intended not as an end, but as the beginning of a renewed national conversation that needs to reach out well beyond the established boundaries if it is going to bring credible action
RENEW THE GAME
01 Bring back the fans through competitive pricing and family facilities at every club
02 Make football in Scotland media-friendly and innovative at every level
03 Re-market the Scottish game, pressing for financial fair shares and transparency REFORM THE GAME
04 Rebuild the game with larger divisions, more variety and improved competition
05 Equip every club to be a ‘community hub’ for wellbeing and entertainment
06 Re-invest in youth through fresh plans for training and education
RECLAIM THE GAME
07 A ‘diversity drive’: 25% fan representation on all governing bodies in five years, 50% women, a permanent place for the national fans’ body
08 Regular, independent auditing and review of the performance of governing bodies and clubs
09 Extend community and collaborative ownership, create a fans’ right to bid or buy when clubs are for sale, create a fans’ bank or fund
Did any of the 10000 fans who responded to the survey mention that there might be a problem with corruption at the SFA and SPFL?
Were they so few in number that their concerns were excluded from the Fans Manifesto?
Did any of the 10000 fans who responded to the survey mention sectarian singing, intimidation of officials, letter bomb training, assaults in the street as potential issues being ignored by the governing bodies?
Or in a nutshell
Did any of the 10000 fans who responded to the survey mention dissatisfaction at the manner in which the SFA and SPFL were handling the Rangers situation?
Or to summarise the above
Did the SFSA sanitise the 10000 responses of their own volition or did they do so at the request of a 3rd party?
There are stacks of angles to the above which could be addressed by many of the fine posters who inhabit this blog
Whats clear so far is that SFSA are not a democratic organisation despite being in existence for well over a year
Its also clear that despite their “plan” to eventually become democratic they are unfit in the immediate term to represent Fans concerned about the way the Rangers saga has been corruptly managed by the governing bodies
Indeed their own manifesto specifically ignores the biggest scandal in Scottish football in living memory
Launch of SFSA Fans’ Survey
This post might be unpopular
I`ll stand corrected if I`m wrong
If there is one thing suspicious in all of this corrupt saga it`s the convenient emergence on the public stage of the SFSA in the last fortnight
This self-appointed body with apparently no funds is stuffed with self-appointed politicians One of them at least has been found guilty of having dirty hands. It has created a community company appointed its own Board and defined its own remit before its public launch. It doesn`t once use the words morality or integrity or fairness or corruption to justify its existence. It doesn`t even mention a goal of being transparent to its members It has invited German football academics to tell their unelected Board what sort of questions Scottish fans should be asked about. It has went on to unilaterally approve a bland survey questionnaire that will consume a few months help dissipate the anger of some fans and tell us nothing we don`t know already.
The official SFSA top down remit will take years to completion. It smacks strongly of how the English Child Abuse Enquiry was set up years ago by politicians determined to protect politicians and their establishment allies. Its Terms of Reference were deliberately set so wide that many of the accused and their victims passed away before their case got considered. And that`s exactly what could happen here.
Or put more simply
It’s not an organisation claiming the simple raison d`etre of upholding sporting integrity
The survey document smacks of long term civil service thinking. It starts from the premise that things might actually be hunky dory, so let’s take the next few months to quantify the “general level of disquiet”. This top down approach is a recipe for time wasting and switching off the members. It is frankly smacks of the sort of approach you would expect from Soviet era Trade Unions. The festering sore that is the Rangers tax case doesn`t qualify for a mention. SFA and Police management of sectarian behaviour is ignored, Nothing is asked about how our corrupt governing bodies are paralysed about physical intimidation in football.how keeping the peace outranks morality. This is despite letter bomb training, street assaults and threats to torch a football ground. Most of all is the complete absence of an SFSA declaration of transparency.
Corrupt SPFL Statement
Its early days for the SFSA
So far they have not commented on the SFA and SPFL Statement. Does their Board have no opinion?
Is it because the leadership of the SFSA is well aware it is not a “Fan Elected Body”?
It has no mandate to speak for its members. So they are obliged to keep quiet.
However, having no mandate also means they should not respond to any appeals from our corrupt authorities to engage in private discussions
It is clear that the governing bodies wish to avoid discussing the corruption crisis in terms of sporting integrity. Their strategy is moving the goal posts from integrity to legal mumbo jumbo. Their aim is to confuse the peasants. Their premise is that limited knowledge of the judicial system will force the peasants into disgruntled forelock tugging compliance
Move along peasant
If its legal and immoral then its ok
If it’s against integrity but within the rules its ok
Sometimes rules have to be bent if we think it’s necessary
Trust Us. That`s what happens in business
They forget that we peasants have simple minds. We see issues in terms of good and evil, right and wrong. We expect integrity to be the backbone of organisations who claim to be trustworthy.
Whats more worrying
I would not be a bit surprised if the SFSA are the first to be invited by the corrupt SPFL and corrupt SFA to come and talk to them in private about their forthcoming “Independent” meaning corrupt Review. Indeed they might even end up as “Representing the Fans ” on this stitch up.
That would be outrageous
Unelected politicians one with dirty hands representing you on integrity issues with that lot
I don`t see the SFSA fulfilling the role of speaking for fans in the specific one off battle against the corruption witnessed over the past few years.
The current un-elected SFSA Board may attempt to act in this role by cooperating with the so called SPFL Independent Review or try to subvert the timetable of the Judicial Review that is currently gathering momentum
If this happens
it will be a sign that they see themselves as budding members of the establishment. People who are in cahoots with the corruption we are trying to root out.
And as for representing fans to the governing bodies on any other issues.
The acid test will be whether they replace the SFSA Board with elected fan representatives BEFORE they have their first formal meeting with the SG or football governing bodies.