Comment on Whose assets are they anyway? by justshatered.
Celtic’s statement tonight was interesting; short, concise, and direct.
As easyjambo stated it was possibly issued with an eye on the forthcoming AGM, or was it?
Could we see other clubs now issuing similar statements?
In 2012 I think it was Dundee United who issued the first statement concerning their voting intentions. Aberdeen were second followed by Celtic and the rest.
I think the next 48 hours could be crucial in framing this debate. If there are no statements from the other clubs I fear the media will have there wish and thrust with the age old Celtic versus RFC/’The Rangers’ that they cannot move beyond.
If there were frank discussions, as has been hinted, at the recent meeting to discuss the COS verdict then we may see more clubs making statements. That shows a consensus beginning to take shape. The SPFL and SFA will begin to worry about that. We are told often enough that these organisations ‘are the clubs’ well if that is true then the clubs will tell the governing bodies how they will deal with this.
Finally it will send a shockwave through Ibrox!
For quarter of a century this club has believed it could manipulate the narrative and set the agenda. This will be the peeling away of another layer of the mystic that, at one time, David Murray seemed able to weave around this entity.
There are not many layers left now. The dignity layer left the building some time ago but that was after the financial muscle layer had gone.
Whose assets are they anyway?
It was mentioned last night that the full list of EBT recipients has never been disclosed.
Could this be the reason that the media are so scared of this story?
Are there a few media household names in that list?
After all if Graeme Souness left the club nine years before the EBT system was set up and he received one, was anyone eligible?
That in turn would lead to even more questions such as;
Were any media editors in receipt of one?
And possibly the biggest question of all;
Was Jim Farry in receipt of one after the Cadette scandal?
No I’m not suggesting for one minute that this happened but after all that we have discovered over the last few years could such a set of questions be so easily dismissed!
Well obviously they could be dismissed by our so called media.
One another subject.
What is that Yvonne Murray like wanting her opponent stripped of their silver medal?
Somebody really needs to tell her to move on for the good of her sport!!!
I find it amazing that, with their standing at an all time low, the media cannot, dare not, will not allow an opposing view on this subject. The real problem they have is that they are now so far down the road that they have chosen there is no way back.
It is also interesting to hear the big name players coming out and saying that they do not want titles removed simply because the media are desperate to turn this into a Celtic / ‘The Rangers’ thing. Sutton, Lambert, and O’Neill had many days in the sun and another bauble for them, years after the event, would not necessary mean anything however what if they had never won a major trophy; no league titles, no European Cups, etc. In other words if you were a player where that ONE DAY at Hampden was your only day, your only ever chance to become a national winner. What then?
Queen Of The South players are probably the epitome of this. Try asking them what they would want done.
If there is no appeal then stripping is the very least that should happen. If should possibly be left to the defeated clubs to decide whether they accept the honours.
I personally think that the name should be removed from the trophies, or the word ‘Stripped’ inserted, but the date left. That would remain a reminder, not just to the clubs but to the authorities, of what happens when you lose sight of your responsibilities.
Whose assets are they anyway?
Big Pink and a few others seemed to refer to differences in how angry some clubs seemed to be last week.
Has a consensus of opinion been reached regarding if there is an appetite from the clubs to tackle this issue?
As a straw poll if people would be willing to take part:
1. Have you written to your club to raise concerns regarding the verdict delivered last week and if you have what is your club.
2. As this is a community made up of fans from many clubs. Can some one who knows the various websites of the various clubs give feedback regarding the strength of feeling if any that exists?
I’m of the firm opinion that it will be us, the fans, that will decide this issue if there is strong enough feeling. If the fans tell the clubs, as they did in 2012, that if proper punishment is not delivered then the stadiums will be empty next year. The media can spin as much as they want but what they still haven’t understood yet is that they are irrelevant. There track record on this story has been lamentable.
The media told us Craig Whyte was a Billionaire. They were wrong!
The media told us there were no financial difficulties at RFC. They were wrong!
The media told us all in 2011/2012 that there would be no Administration. They were wrong!
The media told us there would be no Liquidation. They were wrong!
The media told us ‘The Rangers’ would start life in the SPL. They were wrong!
The media told us ‘The Rangers’ would begin life in Division 1. They were wrong!
The media told us that there would be financial carnage throughout Scottish football because of the decisions taken in 2012. They were wrong!
The media have, and remain, spectacularly out of touch in all aspects of this scandal. You would think if you were wrong so often on the biggest story ever in Scottish sport that your employers would be wanting a word.
They will throw any scare story and stifle debate but it is them that are wrong.
Whose assets are they anyway?
Interesting to read the statement today.
Well more like an edict was it not.
“NO, NO, NO……………………………… and NO”
Like a broken record.
The same condescension that we’ve come to expect.
The game needs “healed” and “we’ve reached out” to “move the game forward”.
Sadly for ‘The Rangers’ the game has moved forward and it has left them behind.
The only team struggling with the new order in Scotland is ‘The Rangers” themselves.
One thing they fail to recognise is the league title, like every other honour, is awarded by the the body whose trophy it is. That same authority, if information of rule breaking comes to light, can remove that award. There will be no discussion with BDO who now hold those titles. There will certainly be no discussion with ‘The Rangers’ because, as they stated last week, it has nothing to do with them.
Can you imagine the outcry in the press if the Olympic Committee had turned round and said “We are discussing with Ben Johnson to see whether he will allow us to removed his 100m Olympic title!” The ridicule that would have rained down on them would have collapsed the Seoul stadium where that fateful race was run.
If the cycling governing body had negotiated with Lance Armstrong over the striking of his Tour de France titles then there would have been a similar outcome.
The statement today reeks of a belief that “We are ready to call on all of our friends on the inside to make this go away”. Unfortunately the gene is out of the bottle and it isn’t going back in.
Another thing is regarding the sentiments within that statement today. What is it that is beyond them? What is it about winning at any cost that squares with their mentality?
I must admit that if this was my club, heaven forbid, and after all that had went on and if there is no appeal then I would be writing to them DEMANDING that they hand back the honours won in such a fashion. Perhaps that is where some fans are different. It is the sport that matters. Above all else that is what matters. Protect the sport itself and then everything else falls into place.
If there is no appeal and nothing is done then I’m out. The sport will not get another penny from me. The next thing we may have to deal with is actual doping; it doesn’t matter ……… the game was won on the park you know! That is what we are being told today.
Finally this affair actually makes our league rife for corrupt betting scams. I mean who would understand where corruption starts and SFA/SPFL “good governance” begins. This is how bad this situation now is!!
Time to Ditch the Geek Show
This may have been a question asked before so I apologize in advance.
When Rangers entered Administration the TAX man made a claim as far as I’m aware for all of the National Insurance and Income Tax that Whyte had collected but never forwarded.I still find tn difficult to comprehend how this isn’t illegal but there I am, a simple guy.
The Tax man also had the ongoing claim against the money paid to the EBT wheeze and submitted another claim for the Tax and National Insurance contribution that should have been paid on those payments.
Given that HMRC won their case, and the Liquidators will adjust the pennies in the pound accordingly, how can HMRC continue to after the recipients of the EBT payments?
While I have no sympathy for the individuals this seems, again to this simple guy, that HMRC will be getting paid twice; once through the Liquidators pennies in the pound and then billing the individuals.
As for Dave King’s counsel today……………………………….. well who would have thought that a guy who attempted to hide cars, planes, bank accounts, property, and wine from the South African authorities would turn round and claim to be penniless!!
Not me honest.
Another question regarding this: If Dave King sells up and walks away would this ruling apply to the rest of the concert party?
If it does not then this looks like a great sting by the rest of the concert party to have King as the fall guy. Remember there was the rumor that King borrowed the money from someone to buy the shares. It might have even been from someone who will gain if King goes.
The Vice Closes
The SFA have attempted a deal tonight.
To buy off Celtic and the rest of Scottish football with another weak, ineffectual, in-house, whitewash of an investigation into why there in-house, dyed in the wool, Real and pretendy Rangers men passed RFC as fit for a UEFA licence in 2011.
They have done this in an attempt to prevent a full out enquiry into their handling of the Administration, Liquidation, and unlikely resurrection of RFC to ‘The Rangers’.
Unfortunately for them far too much is now out in the public domain.
Anybody who wishes to look at the evidence knows what a craven, cowardly, corrupt, set of so called administrators we have a Hampden. They knew well before RFC went into Administration that it was coming.
The real problem they have is, like the Watergate affair, the original crime was not the thing that eventually brought down the house of cards.
It was the attempted cover up that did that.
The SFA may attempt to purge their in-house email servers but most are backed up elsewhere. The paper trail will most likely lead to some very uncomfortable places and people.
Paperwork, that the SFA are so pernickety about at various times but incredibly lax at others will be their undoing in the end.
Of course as much as the media will attempt to play this as an ‘Old Firm’ issue what the SFA have done tonight is actually ignore the wishes of the SPFL board. That will also be their undoing. For all they talk about the SFA being the clubs tonight they have told everyone that the SFA is a bunch of despots, up to their necks in scandal, desperately attempting to cover their backs.
On Grounds for Judicial Review
Far be it from me to question tactics with regards to the old club/new club debate but for a long time I’ve thought the best way forward is a reverse tactic.
Don’t ask the SPFL, and their legal stooge, as to why they are the same club: accept it.
Now stay with me on this one, yes accept it.
Ask them to confirm the SPL was made up of football clubs, prior to the amalgamation of the SFL and SPL, adhering to rules created by that league.
Ask them then to justify, from a sporting integrity angle, why the club that finished second in the league in season 2011/2012 ended up in the bottom tier of Scottish football?
Ask them why that same clubs prize money was withheld?
Doncaster has been quite forthright stating that the SFL’s record keeping was not as it should have been but let us see how the SPL’s stand up to scrutiny.
Under what rule/rules of the SPL was a vote required to keep a club in the league?
This is unprecedented that a club finishing second in the top league, anywhere in the world, is treated in such a manner.
Why was a vote even required?
Indeed, what was their justification for such a vote?
Why was that club forced to start at the very earliest round of the Scottish Cup as the SPL should have put them forward to be exempt from those earlier rounds?
Who failed in their responsibility to that club and what sanctions have been taken against that individual?
Was the SFA, as the country’s governing body, not concerned that one of their member clubs was being so harshly treated by its fellow members?
Was there any correspondence between the then SPL and SFA regarding this matter?
I could go on but I think you get the drift.
We as supporters cannot get them to admit that ‘The Rangers’ is a new club because they will just say that is their adjudication however what we can ask, and indeed are entitled to ask, is what were the rules that allowed such an unjust thing to happen to a member club when, according to them, they had committed no crime?
If what they did is not in their rule book, then they broke their own rules and someone should be held accountable for such a vindictive assault on a member club.
Time for Scots Government to Take Bull by the Horns
Haven’t posted for a long time but I was interested to read King’s statement regarding the funding of RFC and that the money would have been found from somewhere anyway.
That, in my mind, actually makes matters worse!
So, if you believe his statement, they deliberately choose not to play by the same rules as everyone else. According to King they had the money but decided to go down the route they did.
However, to go down this route they of course had to confirm to the various players in writing that they would definitely receive the money. This is what gave the player the assurance to sign the contract but RFC did not include this letter with the contract to go to the league and the SFA because in doing so would have made it contractual and therefore liable for tax.
That is the crux of the matter. It is the deliberate concealment of these letters which destroys the myth that this was simply an administrative error because if these letters had been included with the contract and other documentation then tax would have been payable.
On to David Murray and his statement. He had legal advice that everything was above board. Well advice is, by the very nature of the word advisory. It is not a guarantee. It is not definitive. It has as much authority as the next guys ‘advice’ which may be the complete opposite.
Then we have dear old Artur Numan. We won on the park fair and square was his cry. Well Artur you employed the agent who got you the deal and a side letter. As far as I know you signed the contract of your own free will. You did not sign it under duress so you, along with all of the other players, have to accept the responsibility for your actions. You were the guy who seemed to come from a footballing culture, at that time, where tax free wages were the norm.
Finally it has been reported recently that when offered a contract extension where Artur would be paid £20K a week paying tax instead of the £40k a week tax free he decided that this was not enough and retired. That won’t earn him a lot of fans anywhere considering most of them won’t earn in a year what he would have earned in a fortnight paying the same tax as everyone else.
.. and they wonder why nobody buys papers
The good news just keeps flowing down Govan way.
Niko Kranjcar seems like a good signing on the face of things. Well he is a name at least.
A bit like Joey Barton who will shout from the roof tops and our excuse for a media will duly print it.
However at the end of the day both of these guys are the wrong side of 30 and will certainly be unused to the physicality of the Scottish game. I would be surprised if either of these guys last ninety minutes regularly. They will have touches of class from time to time however they will not have the time on the ball they are used to.
I think it is also now safe to say that whatever has been saved by players leaving has now been swallowed up, and then some, by the recent signings.
There is no sell on value on any of these players.
As I see it this is the last gamble by a desperate board!
If these players hit the ground running, and they can go top and stay there until Christmas, then the three bears will be forced to anti up yet again in an attempt to get them through the season and access European money.
If this gamble fails and the team struggles in the top league then I think it is game over. This house of cards will collapse quicker than the previous entity.
The clock is ticking towards season start but if there are a series of injuries to the squad, injuries they did not suffer last year, then that will also impact on performance.
Meanwhile there will be no replica strips for the faithful to buy due to the fall out between King and Rangers Retail. This will hit them hard financially with no income at all as opposed to the pittance they were getting before.
In fact this will actually cost them more as they will have to buy unsold items at shop floor price but still, due to the exclusivity clause, be unable to sell it themselves. So they will have to buy the unsold units but still be unable to sell them themselves.
Once again we are watching high stakes, well for Scottish football, gambling.
This is a club continually posting losses very much like its predecessor.
It isn’t a business but a charity!
Everyone connected with it, that has money, is supposed to just shovel it down the money pit with no thanks because “it’s the Rangers way you know”!!