A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove
At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.
To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.
The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.
Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.
2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.
On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.
St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.
By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.
It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.
Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.
Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.
In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.
So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.
Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.
Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.
European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.
Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.
Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.
It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.
Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.
By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.
Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.
Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.
So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’
The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.
Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.
Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.
We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.
It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.
Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.
patnajoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 12:41
Done a quick Google, It might have been The ‘Volunteer’ by Asquith.
Any way got to go now and play my part in the fight against Armageddon (Smiley face)
Sorry about going off topic
The Great Rangers Tax Swindle – A Conspiracy Theory
Part Two- The Media – Weapons of Mass Distraction
Conspiracy definition: “a secret plan or agreement between two or more people to commit an illegal or subversive act.”
At many points throughout the Rangers scam, evidence was unearthed and presented to the public (predominantly, it should be said, by citizen journalists and unhindered alternative media sources) of a number of ‘secret plans or agreements’ between the various parties responsible for Rangers disastrous downfall. When verifiable arrangements between the main protagonists (owners and ex-owners, managers and ex-managers, board members, bank managers, lawyers, accountants, administrators, governing bodies and members of the mainstream media) were exposed and pointed out to the authorities, these facts were, ignored, dismissed as ‘inconsequential’ or put down to mere ‘coincidence’ and the complainant routinely dismissed as being ‘paranoid’, ‘obsessive’ or, at worst, a contemptible ‘conspiracy theorist’.
The more trusting and less cynical person might ask, ‘if something like that was going on, surely someone in the media would have found out about it and we would have been told’. However, Stuart Cosgrove’s recent TSFM blog gives us a clear insight into the machinations of the media and the collusion amongst the Scottish football press-pack to ‘agree’ a particular ‘spin’ on a story. That, along with the conspicuous lack of any proper investigative journalism or significant coverage of the alleged theft of multi-millions of pounds from the public purse, by most of the current crop of ‘unprincipled typists’ who have the audacity to call themselves ‘journalists’ should, I believe, dispel that naive notion once and for all. Sure sounds like a conspiracy to me
Critics of conspiracy theories (I call them coincidence theorists) are prone to adopt the uncomplicated view that ‘too many people would have to be ‘in on’ the scam’, ‘people aren’t good at keeping secrets’ and that, sooner or later, ‘someone would give the game away’ so they could ‘never pull it off’. In reality, by implementing a well-established corporate management system known as ‘compartmentalisation’, there is no need for all and sundry to be aware of the ultimate objectives of a secret agenda in order for them to contribute whole-heartedly to its implementation. This effortless system operates in many large companies, in effect management and employees are only told what they ‘need to know’ in order to carry out their specific role. In fact, compartmentalisation allows for the successful execution of any strategic goal with only a very few people in full knowledge of the intended outcome(s).
In wider society, all that is required to implement a secret agenda is the capacity to exert influence over the decision-making of particular individuals in positions of power in the ‘right places’ to ensure they play their part. Clearly, the more ‘conflicted’ these individuals are, the easier it will be to manipulate them and assure their compliance. If that person happens to be complicit (even in a small way) in the allegedly ‘illegal or subversive act’, they will habitually cover their own backs, confuse the facts and provide alibi for the real culprits for fear their own ‘shameful indiscretions’ may be exposed and subject to public scrutiny and the whole wrath of the law. No traceable top-down communication would even be necessary.
Problems only arise with this system when particular pieces of the scheme become exposed to the light of day, either by chance or by earnest enquiry . That’s where this cherished notion of ‘the fourth estate’ was supposed to come in. The role of the media is meant to be to ensure that citizens have access to honest reporting on matters of public interest and to give a voice to the ‘little people’. That is why we have enshrined laws to protect the rights of ‘a free press’ as a means of ‘keeping the powerful honest’ to ensure a healthy and progressive society. Unfortunately, much of our media has now become so hopelessly corrupted by corporate kickbacks, that they serve as little more than mouthpieces and propagandists for the powerful elite.
When Craig Whyte, the lone gunman and nominated scapegoat, ‘blew the whistle’ on his many co-conspirators in a recent BBC interview, his allegations were instantly and soundly discredited by Jabba and the rest of the succulent lambpots as nothing more than a cynical attempt to deflect from his own misconduct. When the disclosure of a surreptitious audio recording where another of the more ‘conflicted’ individuals in the plot, discusses a conspiracy to lie to the authorities in order to cover-up their complicity, the tape was aired, superficially examined and then promptly buried, never to be heard of again(?) Surely this is evidence of a conspiracy?
You will recall that Craig Whyte was initially celebrated by the Scottish football media as a mega-rich redeemer of Rangers despite a notorious record of asset-stripping and general crookedness. Their lies, damn lies and misrepresentation of the facts facilitated the long-planned takeover of the stricken club without too much objection from the ill-informed Rangers fans. During this same time, they sought to deflect attention from such ‘lofty’ matters of fiscal rectitude and instead conspired to focus the public mind on another theme, the unwarranted hatred and harassment of Neil Lennon.
When they should have been warning us of the dangers of allowing corporate delinquency to infect the beautiful game, our morally-bankrupt media instead sought to validate and inflame sectarian stupidity directed towards the Celtic manager with such enlightened narrative as ‘he should watch his behaviour’, ‘no dignity’, ‘brings it on himself’ and the classic ‘who’s more hated ? Lennon or Hector ? Of course now they feign indignation at the very suggestion that they played any part in this ‘loathe-fest’ and would have us believe that they had, in fact, supported him all along. I suspect that the institutions of the Scottish media are thoroughly infiltrated by other obedient decision -makers in the back-pockets of the conspirators-in-chief.
The total lack of any sincere or objective criticism in the Scottish press of the key players in the Rangers saga has been particularly revealing. Messrs Ogilvie, Smith(s) and Murray, in particular, appear to get an easy ride from the Scottish press. If we are to believe the Scottish media, these individuals are eminently laudable as men of good standing, impeccable principle and defenders of ‘dignity’. However, when you can manipulate the media, you can make people believe whatever you want them to believe. He who decides which stories to run with and which to ignore, has the power to set the news agenda, suppress the truth and deflect unwanted attention away from the real villains of the piece while guiding the spotlight of public outrage and interest in the direction of a predetermined scapegoat.
Throughout the decades of covert corporate corruption, commercial lunacy and tax evasion being undertaken at Ibrox, our compliant press were so busy pandering to the ludicrous ‘moonbeamery’ being purveyed by David Murray and his cohort that, perhaps, they simply forgot to ask where on earth all the money was coming from. Instead they directed their intellectual might towards distracting the general public with sycophantic page three journalism (Cor! look at the size of his war chest!) while chastising rival clubs with accusations of penny-pinching, blaming a lack of vision and ambition for their inability to compete with the inexplicable spending power being exercised at Ibrox. Their mendacity and hypocrisy apparently knows no bounds.
While Mr Whyte’s initial acclaim and subsequent vilification was as predictable as it was typical. This time the old ‘build them up then knock them down’ routine was used to conceal their own culpability in failing to inform their audience of truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth with regard to the goings on at Rangers. Since the Scottish football media spent many decades operating in a Rangers-centric universe, facts that contradict the word of the Then, Now and Forever contingent are routinely suppressed. The integrity of this fake universe has to be preserved even at the cost of destroying the real universe.
Canceling out reality may work for a while, but truth always has the last word. It is getting harder for the mainstream media to ridicule independent investigators as conspiracy theorists and internet bampots for pointing out the blatant discrepancies and incongruity in the officially sanctioned view of the Rangers saga. Even mainline journalists are beginning to admit it.
How can they not? It is a pretty hard gig to cover-up reality especially with the growth of the internet and the rise of the citizen journalist.
Call me a cynic but it’s a conspiracy I tell you!…. and they would’ve gotten away with it, if it hadn’t been for those pesky bloggers.
Humble pie
Fabulous post.
The latest insult (to HMFC) by Desperate Dan will only serve to harden the attitude of clubs against SEVCO when they come calling (begging) for a helping hand back up the ‘ladder’.
Hearts, Dunfermline and any other clubs potentially ‘in the same boat’, struggling with their finances, with honest and integrity, will do them no favours.
For liquidated Glasgow Rangers to to present themselves as some kind of saviour is, frankly astonishing – but perhaps not surprising.
The MSM is also in too deep to attempt reconciliation with the rest of Scottish Football (clubs and fans).
CG’s ‘offering’ is clearly a ‘panic measure’ as he tries (?) to avoid another Titanic situation with SEVCO.
Yes I believe they have already asked Alloa 6 weeks grace in paying last weeks gate money
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
patnajoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 13:31
Why would they need to do that if they have no debt, are cash rich and could afford to pay Hearts £500,000 right now.
neepheid says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 10:55
Were the instalment payments for this transfer the subject of an agreement between Hearts and TRFC, or is this part and parcel of the infamous “five way agreement” to which Hearts were not a party? Just interested.
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Come on folks, it’s a quiet Sunday, somebody must know the answer, especially the Hearts fans on here. My interest is in whether HMFC could sue Green&Co for the full amount right now. Or more likely sue the SFA for selling them down the river in the 5 way agreement.
Can there ever have been a case in the history of football where a club goes under for a 500k debt, when it is owed almost twice that amount by a club in the same association? TRFC owe HMFC a sum which would more than clear HMFC’s immediate tax bill. That seems to be common ground. So why are HMFC facing administration? Any comment from the SFA? Thought not. So can anyone on here help me?
Think we would need to ask Mr Charles that one!!! Do we honestly think in Hearts accepted his offer it would ever have been paid I believe not.
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patnajoe @ 13:31
If this is true, then Charlie is in more bother than we thought
I’ve said on here before, that he is desperately in need of money, and this story together with the rush to “flotation” would seem to back this view up
I would like Alloa to confirm or deny it though
OT
As for Remembrance Sunday … I don’t partake, although the boy was down at the local parade with the Anchor Boys this morning. His great granda died on the Eastern Front at the age of 22, fighting in the Hungarian Army.
Personally, I prefer to speak to our local veteran who fought at El Alamein and landed at Anzio. Goes on for hours if you get him started, and all hugely interesting.
And I prefer, on my annual trips through Europe, to stop at roadside cemeteries in France and Belgium and have a quiet word with the guys who lie there. Sit and smoke a fag with them, maybe have a brew from my flask. I do look for the Gordon Highlanders, and I do look to see if there’s anyone with the same name as me. It is quite humbling to see your own name on one of these gravestones or carved lists, and wonder.
Tyne Cot cemetery at Passchendaele has introduced a kind of underground PA system with speakers at intervals around the cemetery perimeter, whereby one of the fallen’s name and age is read out every 10 seconds or so. Haunting.
Anyone who finds themselves in northern Italy could do worse than visit the hillside memorial at Redipuglia. Only when you get close do you realise just how many names are “presente” on it.
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 13:42
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I believe that to be the case and have done for some time.
I don’t necessarily think that they are running out of money right now, however I do believe that the income for the season simply won’t be enough.
There simply won’t be enough income to see out the season, so as a company when there is not enough income and no potential borrowing there really are few options. Two really, sell assets or a share issue.
Can you imagine the uproar if they actually sold players in January, so that really, short of borrowing, leaves one option. the share issue.
Maybe that’s why the lights are being turned off in the big house unless their is a game on, and staff are being made redundant. It’s getting worse and the papers refuse to report it.
patnajoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 13:31
Yes I believe they have already asked Alloa 6 weeks grace in paying last weeks gate money
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If that is true the SFA should pounce on it straight away (fat chance!). That is really just another version of using somebody else’s pre-collected money (like VAT) to run your business. I wonder if they have put aside the VAT money from the ticket sales, or have maybe used that too since it only becomes due quarterly.
Agrajag @ 13:51
If it’s true, the MSM will avoid any mention of it until they are forced to report it
A story like this would tell everyone that the great Sevcovian recovery is a myth, and that Charlie has been speaking with a forked tongue
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:07
Then just like on the previous occasions they are complicit.
They helped David Murray when he was stealing from the nation, cheating Scottish football and lying to the fans.
They helped Craig Whyte when he was stealing from the nation, cheating Scottish football and lying to the fans.
They are helping Charles Green one is left to wonder what history will tell us he is doing.
Sorry to be going over an old topic, but it is still one area that continues to puzzle me and again came to my mind regarding the money due to Hearts.
Who can ask the SFA to put into the public domain, the contents of the so called 5 way agreement?
What is it in this agreement that is so corrupt that it must remain private an hidden from public scrutiny?
What right does the SFA have to hide this agreement in confidentiality, as it affects every football supporter in this country?
There was a poster, not sure if it was here or on RTC, that indicated he was aware, in regard to the agreement, that there were no time limits imposed in the agreement. That was particularly true in relation to paying the football debt. This appears to have been confirmed, as has been shown recently with Hearts and Dundee Utd monies still outstanding.
Green has made it abundantly clear that he will fight this agreement all the way through the courts if he has to. Clearly he does not intend to comply with it. So what is this agreement, was it like the membership, a conditional one, it certainly does not appear to be compulsory.
IMO no other club chairman could have been aware of what the 5 way agreement contained prior to it being agreed, given the lateness of the hour of its completion as negotiations were apparently ongoing, right up to the last minute. However it is disappointing that there is total silence from all club chairmen on this issue.
SFA Article 6.2 states that a club shall be admitted as a registered member if admitted as a member of a league, such as the SPL.
SFA Article 6.3 provides that a club seeking full membership must first be an associate member. It cannot be admitted as an associate member unless it fulfils the membership criteria.
SFA Article 6.4 states that the Board of the SFA decides on associate membership.
SFA Article 6.6 states that a club, after 5 years as an associate member, can apply to become a full member.
Looking at these I can see nothing that discusses or provides for a ‘Conditional’ membership.
Does the SFA or those present at this so called agreement, have the authority to introduce into the SFA rules, this new conditional membership, without the consultation of SFA members?
Sorry rant over.
Regarding the offer from TRFC/Sevco to Hearts FC to settle the debt of £800,000 through immediate payment of £500,000.
Does that offer in any way breach any of the SFA rules of association/membership/club licensing?
By making an offer to settle a debt, through offering substantially less than the sum owed, knowing that a club is in financial distress – would that be a breach of any obligations of a Club to respect other member clubs etc.?
nowoldandgrumpy @ 14:14
The contents of the infamous five way agreement will never see the light of day, as it will expose, in detail, the the true level of duplicity and rule breaking, that all parties involved engaged in
Charlie won’t take it to court either, because as long as it remains “secret” he has the SFA/SPL/SFL over a barrel, and a weapon with which to beat them, which when you think about it, suits him
Watching the Jonathan Ross show last night. Danny Baker made an interesting comment regarding the media. “the media believes that if they haven’t scared you they’re not doing their job” Sums up the Scottish press for me.
campsiejoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:26
1 0 Rate This
nowoldandgrumpy @ 14:14
===========
Unfortunately, I completely agree that it will never see the light of day, unless they are somehow forced to.
What we saw yesterday at Ibrox was the equivalent of the guy at the back of the church making sure everyone sees him putting in a twenty. On this day, all around the world, people will pay their respects in their own way, admittedly some will prefer just to pause and consider the sacrifice many have made in many wars . Younger people want the twenty, older guys don’t even see it. How the new ranjurs can have the bare-affrontery to hold up their twenty in public is beyond me. Be rest assured, not many saw the twenty, just the disgraceful actions of a disgraceful club.
Would it be possible for TSFM to Petition the SFA board on our behalf to publish the agreement in light of the obvious issues. Just a thought
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
Totally off topic, but can I just say Scotland have just scored a try to take the lead against New Zealand.
Got to be worth a wee diversion.
Carry on.
christyboy says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:42
===============================================
If remembrance day is for anything it is to remember those who were sacrificed, in a dignified manner. It is not for jingoistic celebration. It is not an excuse for xenophobic triumphalism, rather it is a time to solemnly pay tribute, perhaps with a quiet prayer if that is in accord with one’s own belief system.
The disgraceful scenes at Ibrox yesterday were as far from dignified remembrance as it is possible to get.
This is just my opinion, people’s sacrifice allow me to have it and to express it. They also allow me the right to choose whether I want to wear a symbol or not. I totally respect tat other people have those same rights.
christyboy says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:42
What we saw yesterday at Ibrox was the equivalent of the guy at the back of the church making sure everyone sees him putting in a twenty.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What we saw yesterday at Ibrox was the equivalent of the guy at the back of the church making sure everyone sees him ‘appearing to’ put in a twenty. Of course, the twenty never made it into to collection plate
beatipacificiscotia says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 11:08
9 21 Rate This
I’m sure it has been said before, but Hearts are not entitled to the money at this time. Sevco offered then a deal to get some cash now. The benefit to Hearts is that it helps them out a hole. The benefits to Sevco is they get that debt off the balance sheet and save a few quid (300,000 quid). Sevco are being a little cheeky, but they are entitled to do so. TD me as much as you like, you know I’m right.
If there is a story, it is in why Hearts would turn down the money. They either want administration to happen sooner than later – which means a quick CVA, points deduction, then get on with it – or it is all a scare tactic to get bums on seats at the games.
———————————————————————————–
having watched several episodes of insolvency unfold in Scottish football, the initial appeal for cash is usually the tip of the iceberg, in this case 450 k. Paying this amount will not be the end of HMFC’s difficulties, and a further cash injection of 300k in a few months could be crucial to their chances of survival. The ‘story’ here is why would HMFC ask their fans for cash, then write off 300k from the uberspiv who is clearly taking advantage of the situation?
I still have a belief that this site can be good for our game,we have some incredible posters on here with a great insight into the workings of tax,spl/sfa rules etc but what are we really achieving with the site?
We all know what’s wrong,how it should be dealt with & who should resign but sometimes I feel we’re peeing into the wind.Yes we have Stuart Cosgrove on here & he’s a great voice to have on the inside but the msm are just rolling along with the agenda that sevco are the same & everyone else are at fault for the state of our game.I know that if/when the reconstruction scenario rears it’s head that we can halt that just like we did when they attempted to get sevco straight back into the spl but I really am getting angry with every passing day that the biggest scam in Scottish/British sporting history is going to just slide through & we will be left on here raging at the injustice of it all.
I think we need to be more proactive in our approach,perhaps a face to face meeting with as many as possible from this site & with people like Stuart in attendance,maybe even have him chair a meeting on how we can really make our voice be heard.The likes of ogilvy do not give a monkeys what we think/say on here (we’re just bampots)and I reckon he could be right 🙁 We need to step up to the plate & let our voice be heard throughout the land,we have power but we need to use it better.
Sorry if this is rambling but it’s just what’s running through my mind,btw I don’t mean an angry rally like “the peepil” carry out.
Can we do it? YES WE CAN !!
raycharlez says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 02:34
190 0 Rate This
wjohnston1 says:
Saturday, November 10, 2012 at 22:38
I am disheartened by the way the Remembrance Day I remember has somehow been turned into a glorification of the Armed Forces.
It is as if it is becoming Armed Forces day …
————
Your piece was simply magnificent raycharlez. On the football side, it does seems to have evolved into a sort of advertising campaign for the military. The effect, especially in England, is of the EPL being associated with modern jingoistic militarism.
I agree that the poppy will always be the flower of remembrance for the victms of The Great War, a sad and sombre symbol. I had the chance on Armistice Day in 1999 to visit the Pas de Calais. Leaving Paris I noticed how they dressed in 1914-18 uniforms, not sure if they did that every year, but that seemed more entirely relevant to the 11th hour of the 11th month. Out among the turnip fields I located the grave of my great uncle James in a small, immaculately kept cemetery. I was probably the first family member to ever visit that grave. I can’t think of anything more anti-war than the sight of those white headstones. I’ve visited many of the war graves over the years – and also those of the young Germans who are almost always buried nearby.
At Verdun by the huge memorials I’ve encoutered schoolbuses with German schoolchildren who had come to see for themselves, together with French schoolchildren. I sometimes feel that visits to these places should be compulsary for UK schools. It might help the younger generation to see that war is nothing to be celebrated. Another reason that the football authorities need to make sure the poppy appeal remans a solemn remembrance – and not a bit of US-style military hoo-ha.
tomtomaswell on Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:37
4 0 Rate This
Watching the Jonathan Ross show last night. Danny Baker made an interesting comment regarding the media. “the media believes that if they haven’t scared you they’re not doing their job” Sums up the Scottish press for me.
————-/———–//——–
Funny I was thinking the same.
Although, no scare stories about The Rangers. That would be a step too far for the fans.
Re the Chuckles brothers and transfer monies due to Hearts, I actually think that both may be correct.
1. Hearts probably did offer a discount of £100K for early repayment, which was turned down.
2. Green sensed there was an opportunity to negotiate and may have said make it £300K discount and we have a deal.
I don’t think it is as big an issue as some have made out.
Off topic poems
The one I remember – because it made me cry
ANTHEM FOR DOOMED YOUTH (written in 1917); Poems by Wilfred Owen, 1920
What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
Only the stuttering rifles’ rapid rattle
Can patter out their hasty orisons.
No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells;
Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs, –
The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
And bugles calling for them from sad shires.
What candles may be held to speed them all?
Not in the hands of boys but in their eyes
Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
The pallor of girls’ brows shall be their pall;
Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds
tomtomaswell on Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:37
Watching the Jonathan Ross show last night. Danny Baker made an interesting comment regarding the media. “the media believes that if they haven’t scared you they’re not doing their job” Sums up the Scottish press for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Moore in, I think, “Bowling for Columbine” made very much the same point about, particularly, American news reporting. US news reports often lead and/or end with reports of violence and crime where other countries have an “and finally” moment. This relates to control by the state through fear.
The same is very much what appears to happen with regards to Scottish football and the MSM reporting thereof. By propagating the fear of what will happen ‘without Rangers’, the ‘authorities’ keep control of the agenda. Were they to start reporting the truth, that all may not be rosy down Govan way, the masses would finally understand that they have been and are being manipulated. The internet bampots may be the start of the ‘resistance’ movement but it will require some seismic event, either in the media world or in the football one, for us to hold sway.
Seen as there are many comments on the subject and as it it Remebrance Sunday this is the greatest anti war ever written by Scotsman Eric Boogle and sung by The Fureys and Scotsman Davey Arthur. It reminds me so often of holidays in Ireland as a teenager where is was number one in the charts for an extrodinary length of time. It was my party piece for a long time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntt3wy-L8Ok
patnajoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 13:31
This is the kind of post we have to be careful with.
Why do you believe that Rangers asked for 6 weeks grace? We need to know the source of this to give it any credibility. Otherwise it’s like Harry Enfield “A fat bloke said so down the pub….must be true then.”
We are all guilty of wishful thinking and lots will take this as gospel on the strength of that one line. We should demand more of ourselves, it’s important not to get carried away.
“Killiemad” I believe this to be the case as people talk and info like this does come into the public domain now I would assume the MSM is aware of the same however do they ask????
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
scottc says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 16:09
2 0 Rate This
tomtomaswell on Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 14:37
Watching the Jonathan Ross show last night. Danny Baker made an interesting comment regarding the media. “the media believes that if they haven’t scared you they’re not doing their job” Sums up the Scottish press for me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
… The internet bampots may be the start of the ‘resistance’ movement but it will require some seismic event, either in the media world or in the football one, for us to hold sway.
———–
Not to be pessimistic but there were reports last year of the US seeking to influence public opinion, covertly, via social media. Now that the genie is out of the bottle the old media that was used to influence public opinion via ‘media assets’ is hardly as effective as it used to be. The greatest challenge facing the Internet might not be blatant censorship but subtle influences promoting a particular agenda. There’s been at least one instance here that was perhaps more contrived than it seemed at first glance – hardly a vast conspiracy against TSFM, but in the long run it’s worth being on guard. That said, one person and the truth will always be the majority.
Re the Alloa payment (I have an interest, check the nom de plume). I asked yesterday if anybody could tell us what the payment time is, under the rules. If somebody answered the question, apologies as I missed it. If not, what is the due date, anybody? Think this conflates fairly nicely with the HMFC/Sevco story, and the emergency share issue.
We are clearly observing an organisation in quite some distress. Vladimir Romanov is a successful businessman, as Charlie Green is not. He is, to boot, a banker, and as such will recognise the cries for help better than I can. It is my belief belief that Romanov is playing the Scottish authorities, Sevco, and (regrettably) the Jambo faithful, like a well tuned violin. Draw up a chair and pour yourself a large one.
For anyone considering attending the Alex Thomson and Mark Daly show at Napier University next Monday, then you will have to register, although I don’t know how it’s done.
Creative Industries@napier_creative
@alextomo and @markdaly2 at Edinburgh Napier on Monday 19th to talk Rangers and journalism. Open to public – but you need to register.
The website is http://www.napier.ac.uk/creativeindustries/Pages/Home.aspx but the events page doesn’t show it as yet.
Anyone else a bit concerned at Chuckle’s mysterious silence in recent weeks? Has something happened to the lovable old spiv? I think we should be told!
Also, I notice that “Armageddon” continued today. I mean, only 16 points between top and bottom, the portents are black indeed!
Seriously, the game up at Pittodrie next weekend looks set to be a cracker! Obviously I hope the Bhoys win it but it’s excellent for the game in general that we have a couple teams slugging it out at the top. Who knows, if Celtic stumble again after our next couple euro games (hopefully we qualify from the group!) then the league race might be a bit longer than some of us ever imagined…..
I’m starting to wonder if The Overseer (I speak of Peter Lawwell and his Vatican paymasters of course) has orchestrated this just to annoy Sevco and Jabba?
Paul McConnvile has kindly posted up a link to register for the Napier University event
http://www.screenacademyscotland.ac.uk/content-32
It appears that attendance is limited to 20 non university card holders. I will refrain from applying and allow others who are better versed in articulating their thoughts and writings to attend.
John Clarke or Charlie Brown per chance as they appear to be based in or around the capital.
easyJambo says: Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 19:04
…
Creative Industries@napier_creative @alextomo and @markdaly2 at Edinburgh Napier on Monday 19th to talk Rangers and journalism…
=======================================
Would be great if it was on t’internet.
And it could prove to be very useful for reinforcing awareness of the public’s mistrust of the Scottish sports MSM ‘journalism’.
IMO, The Rangers is – or should soon be – irrelevant. Time will tell. 🙂
Just hope the usual suspects don’t attempt to disrupt the Thomo / Daly discussion – or have it cancelled via their particular brand of intimidation.
easyJambo
In Idiot terms(for me) What do you think is Vlads game here.
Thank you in advance:)
Jane Lewis@JaneLewisSport
Former #Rangers manager Walter Smith is back at the Ibrox club as a non executive director.
===================
If it all goes t.ts up does a non executive position make him liable or not for prosecution ?
Smith joins Sevco? Just fancy that. Share issue not going so well Chuckles?
Spot on. Chico must have something really good Sir Cardigan
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
easyJambo says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 19:04
3 0 i
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For anyone considering attending the Alex Thomson and Mark Daly show at Napier University next Monday, then you will have to register, although I don’t know how it’s done.
Creative Industries@napier_creative
@alextomo and @markdaly2 at Edinburgh Napier on Monday 19th to talk Rangers and journalism. Open to public – but you need to register..
The website is http://www.napier.ac.uk/creativeindustries/Pages/Home.aspx but the events page doesn’t show it as yet.
………………………………………………….
Short notice but is this our chance? Even if only a few of us get there,with the right questions we can surely get this corruption out & give us a chance to save our game,I don’t want to sit in years to come & regret our opportunity…..Can we do it……YES WE CAN!! Let’s go,let’s get this roadshow on the move & show that we “THE REAL PEOPLE,THE SUPPORTERS OF SCOTTISH FOOTBALL” CAN SAVE OUR GAME…………..
Bobferris
‘Or even just British people. And what exactly does Britannia rule anyway? Maybe they should add a line, “Thank you Russia, as without you we’d have been toast.” USA too obvious!’
___________________________________
OT.
Sorry, just for clarification, remember the Russians signed a packed with Nazis Germany to divide Poland thus ensuring Britain’s entry into WW2, also without American / British convoys and the enormous loss of life that entailed in the North Atlantic Russia would herself have been toast. Lastly, Without the American Lend lease arrangement with Russia she would again have had to sup with the devil.
End of history lesson.
Your statement bobferris is one oft repeated and accepted by many people but it should always be challenged and the facts presented.
Latest publicity stunt / get the fans onside.
Walter Smith now a non-executive director of Sevco.
On another forum I am having a wee “debate” with a sevco ed over meaning of “when is a debt owed” Another sevco ed said yesterday that his club did not owe any money to Hearts as they had paid up to date and next instalment was not due until January, hence no debt owed.
Myself and others joining in, are arguing that even though instalments are up to date as there is still monies owing it is still classed as a debt.
Can the money men, whose opinions I trust more, tell us who is right?
So we have McCoist as Manager, with no talent whatsoever.
What special skills do we think Mr Smith brings to the boardroom. precisely the same as Mr Greig one suspects.
Wait, 2 + 2, he is going to manage an SFL3 team, without them actually having to sack the leg end.
Think things must be causing concern. ie the bampots know 🙂
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
61patrick says: Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 20:29
easyJambo
In Idiot terms(for me) What do you think is Vlads game here.
Thank you in advance:)
=================================
If only I knew. It would make it so much easier for the fans to know what to do.
There are several possibilities ………. none of them good for Hearts fans.
We know he has wanted out for two or three years, but the club is unsaleable with the level of debt. I assume his debt write offs (£16M in the last two years) have been done to facilitate a sale, but the debt levels remain too high.
Throughout his tenure the club has spent more than it earned (upwards of £40M in 7 years of financial doping), therefore there is no one to blame other than himself and his complicit board.
If he is bored with football and is minded to let the club go under then it is bad news for everyone.
If his other business interests are now struggling, then it might explain the request for fans support. If this was the case, then why not be open and transparent about it.
It could be a test that Vlad has engineered to ask fans to make up this seasoon’s shortfall. If the share offer fails to raise sufficient funds, he may then say why should I put in more money if the fans don’t care enough, then walk away.
What is on offer is 10% of the club for £1.79M. That is on the same scale of inflated values as that being put out by CG with regard to the TRFC share issue.
It is currently a no win situation for the fans as it is simply an emotional appeal for money with no guarantees beyond the end of the season. How will the big tax case will be settled if Hearts appeal to the FTT fails? How will the bulk of the debt will be paid off longer term?
The debt is a noose round the neck of the club that prevents it moving forward. Vlad’s project has failed to deliver, and HE needs to accept that and the financial hit that goes with it.
What if Vlad’s end game was to cash in on the property that is Tynecastle. As a development site it must be worth a fortune.
What if there was a 3rd Division club out there, who needs SPL membership now rather than in 3-4 years, who are willing to buy their membership and move the entire club to another City and change its name.
Nah, not even Vlad or Mr Charles would be this mental.
All clubs ( i think) now emailed.
I await any response.
Of course it would have much easier if the contact detail section of the blog had been updated to include the good work done by kilgore trout in garnering the scottish club details. ( or even my own full english club details and governing bodies contacts.)
timalloy67 says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 20:56
=======================================
I’m not a bean counter, but debt is debt.
Look at a set of accounts and you will normally have two figures. Amounts due within 1 year and amounts over 1 year.
That is really the only distinction. If you owe someone money it is debt. Whether it is due now or not.
I your example, if the accounts were prepared just now, then it would be listed as amounts due in within 1 year and would be a liability. It would be debt.
Their argument is like me saying I don’t owe the building society anything because my mortgage payments are up to date.
easyJambo
Thank you for honest and prompt reply you are a credit to your club & this site
I was reading the history of Clyde FC yesterday, as you do. Along with Dennistoun Waverley and Celtic, Shawfield was within our walking radius. A great read, rather sad too when the 1914-18 period was mentioned. However, this press quote about the late 19th century period and the introduction of a professional league and teams jumped out:
“Our first and last objection is that they exist. The entire rules stink of finance – money making and money grabbing.”
Now if Traynor and the Muttonostra had quoted this obscure statement, or said something similar when reviewing today’s football scene, they might actually have won some respect. Instead JT, CY & the Omerta Brothers have acted as petty and ill-informed wee bullies.
So the latest stunt by a company who many observers have serious cashflow/funding concerns about is to bring in a man who previously stated that the current manager needed a multi-million pound warchest to rebuild the team.
This isn’t going to be pretty when it all goes boom
Of course when i first read the man with no surname story the word that immediately came to mind was ‘deflection’. Could there be some bad news due to be published soon that might require a ‘good news’ story for the media to run with.
gie’s a gonk says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 21:27
Or, if they need someone on board (see what I did there) to advise the fans to buy shares, then who better.
If Walter is on the board, and he is telling them to invest, then how can it go wrong.
It only took Charles saying a couple of words to get them buying season tickets.
A bit confused with the supposed return of Sir Walter of Cardigan.
He is retired.
He must be fairly wealthy.
We expect more bad news to come for him wrt EBT’s.
So why get dragged back into a financial basket case in SFL3 – and at this time?
I suspect ‘Walter’ is nobody’s fool – and that he is also keenly aware of his own value.
I don’t accept that he would simply return as a non-exec out of ‘loyalty’ to The RFC – and he certainly wouldn’t return just to allow Charlie to manipulate him in order to save a share offering.
So is he really back just for a greedy wee top up to the pension – e.g. a bonus based on a successful share sale?
Or is he back for other reasons?
Or am I being overly suspicious?
easyJambo at 21.00:
Mad Vlad’s business empire is in serious, if not terminal, trouble.
The share price of Ukio Bankas shares has crashed by more than 45% in a year. they took another big fall last week when it emerged that the basketball stadium project that Romanov was involved in had hit serious problems. The bank took over the stadium rather than see it go bust, as the fall in the value of assets would have bankrupted Ukio.
Birac, the alumina mill in Bosnia, is well-nigh bust, too.
Romanov is not putting cash into Hearts because he has no free cash available to do that. AND he appears to have lost interest. All his spare cash will be salted offshore and he won’t be in a rush to show the authorities (or his rivals) where it is.
Sorry, but my reading of the situation is that he’s getting ready to cut and run, and will be looking for cash for Tynecastle, which I have no doubt he owns “the deeds” to.
The good news is that once he is out of the road, either through administration or liquidation, then Hearts (or “The Hearts of Sevcothian” if it comes to that) will have a chance to start afresh with, hopefully, a new board of decent and honest businessmen.
But tough times lie ahead, of that there is no doubt.
Good luck, EasyJambo!
On a quiet day
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
In my experience
It`s quite common at business meetings for some executives to place their mobiles on the table
Some of them quite openly use the mobile Notes facility to record particularly important action points
Sometimes the Chairman will ask for mobiles to be switched off. However I have never attended a meeting where the participants were requested to remove mobiles from the table. So it`s probably still a common practice for executives and even Spivs to openly display their mobiles during a meeting
Which got me thinking
Supposing a particular person was in the habit of leaving his mobile on the table. So much so that his colleagues found it difficult to recall meetings when he didn’t leave his mobile on the table
And
Suppose a very important meeting took place in Zurich attended by Green, King, Ellis and Whyte
And
Suppose King and Green decided to double cross Whyte and Ellis after the meeting never thinking Whyte had taped the conversation on his mobile
And then
Consternation
Whyte makes public that he taped a meeting with David Greir of Duff and Phelps and passed it to Mark Daly of the BBC
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Most people assumed that Whyte passed details of the Grier conversation to the BBC because he had fallen out with Duff & Phelps. This may well have been one of the reasons
However
Whyte may also have been sending a much more important message to those who double crossed him in Zurich. A message proving what Green really thought about the gullibility of Sevco fans to support a fund raising
What would be the reaction of Charlie Green?
Would he challenge Craigie to give proof of what he taped in Zurich?
Or
Would he reckon the Sevco fans were so gullible they would believe his word against Whyte?
Or
Would he negotiate hush money with Our Hero?
If Green was intent on calling Whyte`s bluff he would have stuck to his original October timetable for the share issue
If he was in negotiating mode this share issue timetable would go out the window
The Walter announcement is indeed interesting. He is clearly not a fool and he is well enough connected to the main players to know the likely fall out
So, what is tempting him back?
Surely it can’t just be money…he will be a wealthy man, and he is a LEGEND amongst the Bears. Does he crave money so badly that he is prepared to lose that status?
What has he been promised? Maybe not money….too crass, but what if he is getting the (remains) of the club after the fall out?
lets face it, he was keen to put his name to a consortium to buy it out, but he didn’t have the readies, now he might see a way for taking over the club for free once chuckles moves on.
StevieBC
I’m with you on this one. If I were a Rangers fan, my trust and confidence in Charlie would have gone up a few notches after this. Walter Smith is no fool, and he is not foolish enough to relieve himself on his own doorstep.
You may take the view though that Walter is being a pragmatist, and that he believes getting onside with Charlie and the share factory is the only way to prevent Charlie’s plan B – which is undoubtedly a scorched earth exit.
Perhaps there is an understanding that Mr Clyde Blower will be able to purchase the keys to the Big Hoose after Charlie and his pals have fed at the trough?
Whatever way it works out, it is not a scenario which ends in liquidation – which suggest that the pragmatism may extend to an acceptance of new Club status to avoid financial penalties from the LNS direction. Next best thing to retaining history is to have Walter calmly at the tiller steering the good ship Sevco in the direction of the SPL.
timalloy67 says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 20:56
Money as Debt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArfPytAoeZ0&feature=related
we are all in debt
johnboy5088 says: Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 21:56
=================================
If I was a betting man (which I’m not), that would be my reading of the situation. He has control of Tynecastle and any other assets through standard securities and a floating charge.
My preference would be to support a CVA purchase of the club and would rather that the fans fund raising efforts were concentrated on that than risking pouring funs into a black hole.
However, advocating administration as a positive way out of this mess, doesn’t sit well with those fans who have an emotional attatchment to the club and feel that they must do whatever is asked of them in order to keep the club alive.
Don’t get me wrong, I have supported Vlad’s right to do what he wanted with the club as long as he was willing to pay the bills. Now that he is refusing to meet the contracts and obligations arising from business decision that he and his Board appointees took, it is time for him to admit defeat, before fans money is effectively peed up against a wall.
Sir Cardigan Knights in play? – Blimey!
Danish,
there was a special section in the Clyde programme for yesterday’s game, relating to Clyde’s losses in the first world war.
EasyJambo at 22.19:
With common sense like that, you’d make a good member of the new Hearts board.
I hope your club’s long Romanov pantomime comes to a quick end and you don’t get landed with a second load of chancers, a la Sevco.
NTHM
I dont know how all the pieces fit together but i agree with you. Smith is back to eventually end up owning the club.
Maybe he floated down on a moonbeam.
Did Chic Young really reveal Rangers’ “offer” to Hearts? If so, it’s pretty safe to say Rangers wanted him to report it. Either that or Chic has, all of a sudden, become an investigative journalist reporting on finance matters. Hmm. He didn’t reveal it until it had been rejected so all good for Rangers; they can play the good guys spurned by Hearts, pretend they’re wealthy and charitable and may even avoid paying in full anyway if Hearts fold. If Hearts stick around the amount is still due in full (unless the Pentagram Agreement says otherwise). Will Green stick around long enough to pay the balance in July?
Walter Smith’s “return” (to a new club he’s never been involved with), coincides with Chic’s story. Funny that.
Will Walter be subjected to the fit & proper person test before or after publication of FTTT decision
midcalderan says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 22:56
How very dare you.
Sir Walter will never be subjected to anything.
In fact if he had an EBT then all that would be is proof they were perfectly legal.
What I think Mr Green and his paymasters are doing here is creating what is termed, in diplomatic circles, Facts on the Ground. This term originally stemmed from the protracted negotiations of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, where Israel continued to build illegal settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, with the aim of establishing a permanent foothold on Palestinian lands. The strategy involves delaying any negotiations until you have established these ‘facts on the ground’, such that any final agreement would be forced to take cognisance of the ‘human impact’ of uprooting these new settlers. The longer it takes to come to an agreement the more facts on the ground are established, the harder it becomes to extricate the situation.
In my humble opinion, that is why the SFA and the authorities generally have been persistently slow to bring anyone to account for the decades long scam going on at 150 Edminston Drive. Now, with the tacit approval of the SFA, SPL and SFL, Mr Green’s Sevco is endeavouring to shoehorn the illegitimate offspring of the once mighty Rangers FC back into its ‘rightful’ position as ‘the most successful club in the country’. That is why there had to be a team called The Rangers, still playing at Ibrox, still wearing the red, white and blue of the old Rangers, still singing from the same old songbook.
They are now trying to engineer a situation where thousands of naive fans become so emotionally and financially invested in this new club that they will be forced into a state of permanent cognitive dissonance. In recent weeks revelations of verifiable linkages between Mr Whyte and Mr Green had given rise to a brief awakening among the duped. Many of the brighter of their supporters began to question the headlong rush into a new share issue. By bringing the highly-venerated (among the Ibrox faithful) Mr Smith on board they are giving fresh legitimacy to their resurrection myth and comfort to those who believe that they have a god given right to maintain their perceived supremacy despite breaching the established rules (the chosen peepil, if you will).
The longer this farce continues, the harder it is to separate the old Rangers from the new Rangers in the minds of the general public and the more difficult it becomes to disentangle this web of deceit. As Prime Minister Gladstone once observed “Justice delayed is justice denied.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18503656
“We very much hope the verbal assurances they provided to us – and the public statements made – are adhered to and that the club will therefore be financed and managed with appropriate governance and can go forward in a sustainable manner.
“We wish the new Rangers Football Club every good fortune.”
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At least there is someone on the board now who is willing to publicly declare the truth.
Rangers, according to Mr Smith, is a new club.