A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove
At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.
To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.
The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.
Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.
2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.
On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.
St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.
By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.
It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.
Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.
Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.
In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.
So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.
Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.
Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.
European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.
Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.
Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.
It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.
Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.
By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.
Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.
Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.
So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’
The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.
Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.
Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.
We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.
It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.
Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.
Dalriadan says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 00:20
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Given that you have posted this, and the majority agree, then fair enough.
I would suggest that the Cardigan has agreed to get on the bus for the inside info…I am sure there will be interested parties outside of the club that he maybe listening and looking out for on their behalf…either that he is positioning himself to purchase the club on behalf of others..
He knows Chuckles is a basket case…I can see no other reason for his desire to join the gang!
Dalriadan says:
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This is a wonderful site but we should all be wary of the possibility it can be hijacked by a minorityof obsessives.
For every Humble Pie who posts a groundbreaking article once a week or less, we have those who post half a dozen contributions a day, most of these contributions adding precisely nothing and being posted simply for the sake of the posters hearing their own cyber-voices echo back at them.
The main culprits seem to be Angus1983, Agrajag and Danish Pastry, but there are others.
Their obsessive, daily, overposting diminishes this forum I am afraid.They should offer voluntarly self-censorship IMO.
The bullying recently of OrdinaryFan ( a conscientious contributor here) was a clear example
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I disagree 99%. The aforementioned keep this very influential site ticking over with, what you would have to agree being, predominately sensible comment! As someone involved in social media all I can say is that this kind of blog/forum is evolving. What’s the issue with it being a place where some press F5 fairly regularly to see if anything is happening?
At the same time, I understand where you are coming from. In that respect I urge all of the above ‘culprits’ to get there sorry behinds over to twitter! Trust me you will have an ‘Alice in Wonderland’ moment! …. Or the Matrix if yer younger! 😉
I’m on twitter. Still come here every day!
Blue Pill! Red Pill!
J
Dalriadan
This blog, and its predecessor RTC, provide an open forum to discuss our shared interests and I, for one, would very much like to see it stay that way.
I am inherently opposed to any form of censorship of opinion (including self-censorship), whether I agree with it or not. We all have the right to be wrong, although we should all accept that our opinions are open to rational challenge. Otherwise we would never learn anything.
I have to admit, I did not perceive of any ‘bullying’ of ordinaryfan, whom I agree has been a valuable contributor to this site, although I was aware of some of his/her views being challenged at one point.
Personally, I have found the contributions of the aforementioned posters (Angus, Arajag and DP) to be, at various times interesting, challenging, enlightening and amusing, all of which serve a useful purpose in a free and open society. I welcome their continued postings.
I do not have some of the specialist expertise of many posters on this blog and the majority of my posts are mere observations of the generalities surrounding the Rangers saga rather than a forensic critique of individual pieces of evidence.
I believe that we all have a voice and a valuable contribution to make to our society. We should never refrain from expressing our humble opinions. Who knows? we might just be able to change things.
We are Blogger – Hear us Roar !
I too am trying to get the angle of Baron Cardigans re-appearance on the scene
The non-exec position is a bit of a fence sitter for him
It shows support for Green but doesnt shoulder any responsibility
Has Green told him if the share issue bombs then its Tesco time ?
Did McCoist send out an SOS
Walter is the only candidate left that Green could turn to that holds enough influence
with his prospective investors .
“We have asked Walter to come back on board to help the club through a difficult time but he refused to do so” – how would that go down ?
Charles has shown time and again what a manipulative backstabber he is
Is Walter back through fear of his reputation being tarnished
If he refuses then he risks the death of the club ,if he goes full on in he risks being implicated in the scam .
This halfway house would seem to suit them both
timtim says: Monday, November 12, 2012 at 01:02
…
Is Walter back through fear of his reputation being tarnished If he refuses then he risks the death of the club ,if he goes full on in he risks being implicated in the scam . This halfway house would seem to suit them both.
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This is where I don’t quite get it.
‘Walter’ is a wily character who knows how to handle the media: Charlie is a relative amateur in comparison.
If Sir W genuinely did not want anything at all to do with Sevco, IMO, he would/could have preempted any future pleading/threatening from Charlie to return – and to help shift some shares.
The Cardigan is 65 in February.
He could have told his sycophants in the MSM – or just wee Chick – that for medical reasons he couldn’t get involved with Sevco even though ‘he was desperate to help out’. He wouldn’t need to elaborate on his medical condition of course but he could tell Chick to write that W had a bad chest/ severe arthritis/painful piles/dreadful dandruff…whatever.
He can’t return – the fans understand – dignified ‘Legned’ status unaffected.
The Brown Brogues is not scared of Charlie: he has returned for his own, personal reasons and ulterior motives.
But what those motives are…I don’t have a clue! 🙄
quick update on the continuing mccoist365/adam? saga. Well saturday was easily his most rapid period of posting expounding on all aspects of newco, club v company and citing and indepth discussion of various examples most notibly being leeds utd, middlesbrough whilst he also touched on charlton, airdrie, gretna and some of the other english league clubs that had convoluted insolvency events. Anyway his main point was that club was distinct from company and in an attempt at displaying his superior intellect and debating skills he condascendingly informed us that in essence a Football Club X is the product of Company Y Assets Z and Association Football Membership M or X = Y+Z+M.
All very good unfortunately though his higher intellect clearly doesn’t understand the basics of algebra and logic. We agreed that due to the connivance of Duff n Phelps and the 5 way agreement that Z and M remained the same. However where he tripped himself up was in failing to understand the logical proposition that oldco Rangers plc oY was not and would never be the same as Sevco Scotland nY. If oY and nY are different and not equal then Rangers plc X = oY + Z + M whereas Charles Green’s The Rangers X = nY + Z + M.
At best then McCoist/Adam can claim is that newco X is very similar but it cannot ever be the SAME because Y in both instances are not equal or the same. This is evidenced by Charles Green acquiring Rangers plc assets and membership he did not acquire Rangers plc which is in liquidation.
So to simplify in his vernacular The Rangers are very similar to Rangers Plc but they can never be the SAME football club X because one of the fundamental components Y is different and not equal.
Surprisingly or not we haven’t seen or heard from him since altho we did hear the last word on the matter from a newly registered single post poster called ‘myself’ whose only concern despite all Hearts immediate issues was that REAL Hearts fans and fitba fans would recognise a newco Hearts as being the same football club as Nearts and that it was only nasal whingeing lawyer and accountant types being internet saddo’s using legalese jargon to wind up Rangers fans.
ha ha since i was typing we’ve just had a new poster called 4menhadadream who describes himself as a moderate rangers fan but who likes Hearts then goes on to take up the batton where mcoist/adam left it and in a semi lengthy post makes all the same points, goes into yet more detail about the Leeds liqudation as it is important we fully understand and that once the IPO is complete they will once again be Rangers Plc with the SFA license unchanged as Rangers football club yada yada yada …they must think we zip up the back.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/walter-smith-back-on-board-as-he-agrees-to-become-director-at-rangers-1-2628257
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/stuart-bathgate-the-democratic-solution-for-hearts-1-2628373
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/hearts-players-willing-to-defer-wages-as-survival-battle-goes-on-1-2628465
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/smith-returns-to-ibrox-as-board-member.19395827
re Lord Walter
Simplest explanation.
Walter, please join the board to help us shift these worthless shares. We’ll give you a pile of them at half price and then their value doubles (if enough people are stupid enough to buy shares) in a matter of weeks.
Oh, and by the way you’re rescuing the club if anyone asks.
patnajoe says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 13:31
57 0 Rate This
Yes I believe they have already asked Alloa 6 weeks grace in paying last weeks gate money
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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Any evidence to back that up or is it a Chinese whisper as this would be an interesting development?
Dalriadan
Very unfair on Angus. Observer was exposed as having ‘dual contracts’, well at least dual aliases on here. Having been at the receiving end of someone writing letters of complaint to my employer, but using different names and addresses plucked at random from a telephone book, to make it appear as if his opinion of me was actually a widely held belief, I found Observer’s dishonesty very poor show. There’s a thumbs up facility on the blog for people to register how much they liked their OWN posts. To invent another persona – then to actually sit down and write a post agreeing with your own post, is pathetic.
The damage done to the blog by Observer was such that I will now be scrutinizing your posts to gauge why you are defending him/her. It strikes me as strange since Observer was completely discredited on here by the very people you are now attacking.
On topic, I wonder what Green has promised Smith. He obviously needs a very strong link to Oldco on board because he realises McCoist is going to have to be torpedoed in the near future. No McCoist, no Smith = No share issue and no Newco.
Dalriadan says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 01:52
Why do ” NTHMC” & others have to post on here several times each day?
I wouldn’t mind so much if they were actually open-minded themselves & ready to accept new ideas.
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Hey, explain that comment with regards to myself
I have posted 4 times since the 7th November (i’m not looking back further)
1 post was a statement from Leslie Deans on Hearts situation, one was a comment about Celtics fine performance against Barca just after the game, 1 was a question about why HMRC would treat Hearts so differently to RFC – and one was an emotional and partisan post which expressed my displeasure with the current TRFC position.
so, less than 1 post a day at the time of your outburst (actually, this post makes it one post a day)
What do you mean by “open minded” – please explain that remark and also why you believe I am not ready to accept new ideas
alternatively, Apologies immediately.
Agree Doontheslope – I think Dalriadan may well be Observer no 3 – I think the posters he names are well thought of on this site and shoudl not preclude themselves form contributing as and when they see fit. Please don’t be put off by someone I have no memory of being a contributor on here or RTC previously. And I don’t see this post as anything other than a dflection – don’t bite please guys!
A thought for the day, if I may.
The title ‘ Internet Bampots ‘ – are we happy to allow Keevins’ bile driven name to stick to us for ever?
Personally, I’d rather have a name that suits. Any ideas?
As for Keevins and his ilk, I’d prefer if they were totally ignored in all instances.
Funny that Observer also complained that certain posters were ‘hogging’ the blog and attempting to set the tone of the blog each day.
For the avoidance of doubt, Dalriadan is OldGold/Observer/Abodyswullie etc.
Not the most transparent of his attempts at trolling, so only 4 out of 10 this time for effort 🙂
BTW, we have received just over £300 in donations. Thanks to everyone who contributed. We’ll try to come up with a plan to spend it soon and we’ll put all or any proposals to the community before proceeding.
It looks like Sir Walter of Cardigan has been playing a ‘slow’ hand to get his own pack of investors the title deeds of Ibrox. There is absolutely no sound reason for him to return to this new club (his own words), unless … Chuckles has given him a ‘come and buy me’ price to exit his Ibrox folly – having finally realised that the planned float on the AIM is already sunk.
That is the only consistent scenario that explains this decision from Walter, he also knows that there would be virtually no criticism from the Bears, for this undisguised and orchestrated (I’ll call it cynical) ‘buyout’.
I can already hear Jabba’s and CY’s footsteps on the marble staircase. shouting; hellooooo…
Walter, well done!
I think I have made a total of four posts on this site and probably made the same number on RTC.
On behalf of F5 buttons everywhere (mine prides itself on being my ‘go to’ key in times of……..well, just about any time really), can I ask that Dalriadan be ignored and that the good people of the site just keep on keeping on.
And of course I post before hitting F5, thereby missing the post from the boss 7 minutes earlier.
TSFM says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 08:48
0 0 Rate This
For the avoidance of doubt, Dalriadan is OldGold/Observer/
Abodyswullie etc.
Not the most transparent of his attempts at trolling, so only 4 out of 10 this time for effort
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Oldgold’s back? There must be something good coming!
I see Ian Hart has also joined the good ship HMS TRFC.
Did he confirm at the time that he is indeed an investor/shareholder in Sevco – Chuckles has previously named him only for Hart to deny it. Now he is a director – so, has he now invested, promised to invest or had he already invested?
Bravo TSFM.
The continuing petty hetz against those who critically questioned the Guidi nonsense. Or maybe it was because we didn’t apologise? That said, I actually did post more than usual over the weekend, especially yesterday when it was quiet. I thought the Armistice Day chat was fascinating (thanks for the Clyde programme detail btw ‘mendacity) not least its evolution into a questionable military celebration at sports events that raycharlez described so vividly.
I was actually wondering why hangerhead didn’t respond to the posts made though. I hope he wasn’t another oldgold ruse.
Will prob get a few thumbs down here, but more media nonsense in the Daily Record today from Keith Jackson (yes, yes, I know…)
He describes Saints draw as “taking smash and grab to a whole new level”. Now, I have seen Saints have some ‘smash and grabs’ against Celtic (Thinking our 1-0 win there back around the year 2000), but this wasn’t one of them. Not even close.
Match stats show 51-49 possession. Shots on target 3-2, corners 4-8 in Saints favor.
Why are these guys still getting paid to write?? I refuse to post the link just because it doesn’t deserve the light of day.
‘BTW, we have received just over £300 in donations. Thanks to everyone who contributed. We’ll try to come up with a plan to spend it soon and we’ll put all or any proposals to the community before proceeding’
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Come on guys £300! at most 30 by £10 this is poor. I seen one post getting upwards of 250 thumbs up. I know as a community we can talk the talk but can we walk the walk???
TSFM Not everyone has access to paypal perhaps if there were other methods of payment the response would not be so disappointing.
Regarding W. Smith’s return, if my memory is working, RTC and others forecast this a long time ago as the likely end scene: debt dumped, switch, cleansing and hand-back to the good ole boys.
Who better than W.S., craftsman and master builder. He’ll also be charged with providing guidance to the erratic fledgling manager, about to be known as 1st team coach/chief coach.
Re: Post relating to Dalriadan
The moment I read the post my first thoughts were, Observer ! so you have a new name. I’m surprised and somewhat miffed I didn’t get a mention.
…hand-back to the good ole boys at a price.
stevensanph says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 09:34
Steven, I agree with you. St Johnstone played very well yesterday, better organisation, better attacking and overall played a better all round game than Celtic. Well done, Howvwa I thought your team were guilty of more than a few clugger challenges and the last defender should have walked after his foul on Samaras in the first half, but then again It was Brines in the middle, the man who ‘missed’ Duberry handball twice against St Johnstone 2 seasons ago. Apart from that well done.
Briggsboy
I’m surprised I didn’t get a mention.
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Briggsboy, the way you treated Observer (and his other alter egos) was an absolute disgrace. You criticized him, exposed him, and tore into him on more than one occasion, laying bare for all to see that he was a troll, a self-obsessed trumpet with no credibility and even less integrity.
Well done!!
I hope that, that great wrong against you has now been righted.
The return of Walter Smith- what a shocker! Or is it only me who sees Sir David Murray in the background, gradually taking back control of what he sees as his? Green and Whyte have just about served their purpose now, time for the Scottish “establishment” people to slither back into place.
No more worries, chaps, Scottish football is in safe hands. Normal service will be resumed shortly. All we need to complete the picture is the Ogilvie Plan for league reconstruction, which the world’s finest football administrator is busily working on as I write. What’s not to like?
IMO this has been a scam from day one and if I’m correct the newest club in Scottish football will eventually end up in the hands of the peepil SDM originally sounded out about buying him out when he tried to punt the dead duck for 5 yrs .
The peepil would not take him up on his offer whilst HMRC were looking for the BTC money so Ragers had to be rid of HMRC and a wee bonus was that they would also free themselves of all tied contracts that Minty had auctioned off for years to come.
This of course would mean that ragers would be gone but with the help of the peepil in prominent places the hordes could be convinced that any triggers broom club that was set up .was still their old ragers .The MSM /SFA/SPL/SFL.have all assisted in this illusion IMO .
With HMRC shafted it seems to me that Ticketus are now the only obstacle as the players in this farce would never have expected triggers broom fc having to begin in the third division .The peepil expected them to surf ice in the SPL when that failed every attempt was made to place them in div 1 ,at the time this scandal may have seemed just another part of the process in this farce but looking at this now it is absolutely astonishing that this attempt by the powers that be was even attempted at all and this event makes me think that they too are fully complicit in this scam .
So if I am correct and it now only leaves Ticketus to get their money then it’s essential that the share issue is a success ,with city investors a pipe dream or red herring that leaves the ones who were always going to be the ones that would fork out for SDMs folly ,THE FANS ,they and only they will be left to cough up for the shares .
Think back to bomber and his “show us the deeds “speech ,what was he told and by whom that made him slink into the shadows IMO the same has been told to Wattie and now Wattie has his part to play .
The share issue take up will be given a massive boost as it will be launched when the SPL strip the deid club of their tainted titles and Wattie and Sally will be two shouting loudest about the witch hunt .Has CG told the peepil all he wants is his wedge and he is off and to get his wedge the deluded hordes have to dig deep ,who knows ,maybe the only time this scandal will be solved is when ALL the players have come and gone .IMO another player has just sat down and more will follow ,still a bit more to go in this story yet
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/what-has-happened-to-imran-ahmad-has-he-left-rangers/
Why do you bring someone in as non exec director? They have expertise you lack.
What expertise does TRFC lack? Football team management & credibility with investors.
My view is Walter, as posted by others, is there to provide comfort to the rank and file that all is well at TRFC, so get your cash ready, the prospectus will be here soon, honest.
Walter can more easily help the hapless McCoist but I also think this is preparation for McCoist’s departure should he suffer a quick SC exit or drop more league points. There is an immediate caretaker on hand and who has enough nous to get the right manager in.
Fans invest more easily when things are going well on the park. The Cardigan helps on both fronts.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/11/11/1352659965084/HMRC-ad-001.jpg
While disappointed that my team lost yesterday, I take some consolation from the fact that the result has led to Hibs being top of the SPL. You can just imagine how frustrated Jabba and his ilk are at still not being able to publish their stories denigrating the boring one horse SPL race.
I’m in no doubt as to which team will end up winning the League but the longer that the race is tight, the less we are likely to hear that particular strand of MSM “armageddon” propaganda. Long may it continue!
I think it’s almost certain that the Cardigan is in place to pick-up the pieces once Charlie and his bhoys have scarpered back down the road with their ill-gotten gains. Or share issue, as it’s being called.
We will then have some or all of the Knights, Kennedy, Park, Weir etc in charge of a debt-free new club, one year away from the SPL at most. Admittedly, with not a pot to p in to begin with, but still in slightly better shape than Rangers would have been if they had managed to buy it…..assuming they really did try to.
Then it really will be business as usual.
With everyone focusing on Walter Myth Mr Hart is being conviently ignored in the most part! How much for two seats on the the board please?
http://sport-enews.com/2012/06/15/rangers-ian-hart-denies-being-part-of-charles-green039s-consortium/
How lon before these two non exec directors become the board as CG exits stage left having made his investers a return on their money!
I note the high street big hitters are ramping up their Xmas ads on the TV.
Any sign of the Prospectus coming out soon to help those who are wondering what to give the little bear who has everything?
rab says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 21:06
Of course it would have much easier if the contact detail section of the blog had been updated to include the good work done by kilgore trout in garnering the scottish club details. ( or even my own full english club details and governing bodies contacts.)
TSFM – any advice on what has happened to these contact details ?
Dalriadan says:
The main culprits seem to be Angus1983, Agrajag and Danish Pastry, but there are others.
——
Hi, Observer. Can you give doontheslope a mention too next time, please? Thanks. 🙂
TheCollardGreen (@chrisshields10) says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 10:45
Rate This
With everyone focusing on Walter Myth Mr Hart is being conviently ignored in the most part! How much for two seats on the the board please?
http://sport-enews.com/2012/06/15/rangers-ian-hart-denies-being-part-of-charles-green039s-consortium/
How lon before these two non exec directors become the board as CG exits stage left having made his investers a return on their money!
******************
I think these two are in for the transition – and I see from Paul McConville’s blog, the TRFC website forgot about Imran…………
Maybe he is revving the car up…………
It’s astounding how many Sevconians want to tell us that trying to save Hearts might simply be throwing good money after bad and that to purge the club of unsustainable debts we really should consider and embrace the newco option and that in reality newcos are ‘just the same’ as oldcos.
One question for them all: Why did Bill Miller receive such abuse from the Copland Road et al when he first broached the subject?
Having gone to the effort of his pudgy fingers typing his latest effort in the Record I felt it was only polite to read it (sorry not techy enough to link). I will congratulate Mr Traynor on the accurate reporting in his article, the bit about it being astounding the number of followers of newgers at Ibrox on saturday. I am 100% in agreement with this and wholeheartedly commend the 48k souls who turned up. Regrettably I can confirm the remainder of the article resembles what was left on the streets after sunday’s horse drawn parades.
Re The Cardigan. As he is back as front man for the scam I presume he will be guesting on aff the ball etc etc and answering the all important EBT question.
If so stand by for an excocet from RTC methinks judging by the last time he raised his head above the parapet.
Greens move may not be seen as so smart after all. Can see ructions on the horizon.
Your hourly compendium of all things Pretendygers Mostly sycophantic retreads.
However the First and Last stories are true
In the last hour
Rangers sunk by high-flying City-slickers Berwickshire News 10:12
In the last 2 hours
Rangers sunck by high-fling City-slickers Berwick Advertiser, Scotland 09:33
In the last 4 hours
Walter Smith: I won’t interfere with team after Ibrox return STV 08:24
Former Everton FC manager Walter Smith back on board at Rangers Liverpool Echo 08:13
Walter Smith is back on board at Rangers Glasgow Evening Times 08:13
Light Blues are just the job as they prove to be Third force Glasgow Evening Times 08:13
Should Lee play back or front? Glasgow Evening Times 08:13
Walter Smith returns to Rangers months after failed £6m buyout bid STV 08:06
Balmoor men are left to rue early miss as the two Lees make them pay The Press and Journal 07:14
In the last 8 hours
Smith returns to Ibrox as board member The Scottish Herald 03:10
Rangers 2 Peterhead 0: victory all in training ground preparation The Scottish Herald 03:10
Earlier today
Lewis Macleod believes fear of the unknown no longer an issue for… The Scotsman 01:58
Andrew Little joins Northern Ireland withdrawals Belfast News Letter 00:22
Yesterday
Smith back on board at Rangers in ringing endorsement for Green’s regime Daily Mail 23:09 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Walter Smith back on board as he agrees to become director at… The Scotsman 22:47 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Walter Smith joins Rangers board ESPN.co.uk 22:18 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Rangers confirm Walter Smith’s return to the club Goal.com 21:53 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
R.O.L Rangers v Peterhead match report and ratings. Rangersonlineloyal.co.uk 21:21 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Former boss Walter Smith joins Rangers boa… ESPN Soccernet 20:57 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Smith joins Rangers board Galloway Today 20:53 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Former manager Walter Smith appointed to Rangers board of directors The Scotsman 20:51 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Walter Smith back at Ibrox The Scottish Herald 20:50 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Walter Smith named Rangers director Sports Mole 20:43 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Rangers confirm Smith return Sky Sports 20:42 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Walter Returns To Rangers Glasgow Rangers – Official Site 20:18 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Fame Place For McPhail Glasgow Rangers – Official Site 20:08 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Gers quietly efficient against Peterhead ESPN Soccernet 18:48 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
How does our Squad Measure Up DoTheBouncy.com 16:30 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
McLeish backs ‘fantastic’ Jordan to pip Strachan to Scotland post after Levein… Daily Mail 15:46 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Vulnerable man reported missing at Ibrox Stadium found safe and well STV 15:02 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Gers Wait On Little Glasgow Rangers – Official Site 14:56 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Macleod: Rangers on right path Sporting Life 13:36 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Smith back at Rangers as director BBC 13:00 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
video Rangers 2-0 Peterhead BBC 13:00 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Evans, Bruce and Little forced to pull out; Daniel Lafferty and Liverpool… Whiteside Can’t Jump 10:03 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Coisty backing Strachan Daily and Sunday Express 09:25 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
McCoist eager to help Hearts Galloway Today 07:49 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Rangers 2 – Peterhead 0: Victory Love-Lee for boss McCoist Daily Star 05:39 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Hearts decline Ibrox cash The Scottish Herald 03:11 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Rangers 2 Peterhead 0: In the home comfort zone The Scottish Herald 03:11 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Rangers 2 – 0 Peterhead: Rangers make it routine The Scotsman 02:55 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Give it to Gordon Strachan says Ally McCoist Daily and Sunday Express 00:03 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Brilliance of Celtic only masks a wider malaise in Scotland The Independent 00:02 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Rangers try to take advantage of Hearts financial strife Scotzine.com 00:00 Sun, 11 Nov 2012
Great though the work of all the contributors to this blog has been, particularly that of the legal and finance professionals…. but not forgetting the philosophers!…..I feel that all are having to revisit already slain windmills, over and over again, simply because those charged with the investigations into the corrupt practices of the deid RFC and, perhaps, the dodgy dealings of D & D and Sevco, are taking far too long to respond to public concerns through not having, as yet, published their findings. These delays are making things worse and creating even more distrust of the various strands of officialdom that are investigating these matters.
The people who have orchestrated these financial outrages are completely devoid of a moral compass and have no conscience whatsoever about whom they have hurt or destroyed in their chase for money and power. They have been ruthless and callous in the pursuit of their goals and they, therefore, deserve not one iota of consideration of mercy in what should be coming in their direction.
Daily I search for suitable and adequate responses from the football, legal and financial authorities but all to no avail. All I see is the steady growth in denials, denials of conspiracy and outright lies from the MSM, as well as a burgeoning of resentment, animosity and unreasoned intimidation in the minds of far too many. I do not know if these awaited reports will clean out these particular stables but I do believe this whole affair cannot not be allowed to fester for much longer, without things becoming an even greater mess than they presently are. Makes me think that the cheating is still going on.
One of those MSM weeks coming up then – tales from the tabs tips
Good way to start to translate is to reverse the spin statement – that identifies the weakness they are trying to deflect. But don`t take a judgement just yet. Look for the obvious that`s missing. Look then for the tag clue or clues for the PR cognoscenti – they need signals between each other.
Then you need base material – Scottish MSM rags have to warp the PR issuance’s with invective diatribe and / or add in other directly unrelated lines or paras to smoother a direct message plus `sporty` OF slants. – no interference / won`t pick team and so on and such
Best sources now for practically un-redacted PR issuance’s on the mess are Express and Mail. They just push jacks stuff out no worries – no need or time to add colour and texture – get it out there first!! – job done as far as they’re concerned – Try the Lord Cardigan ripping yarn in the Daily Mail this morning – Straight PR pulp classic – let`s chop it up for the underlying keywords they want across:
Smith back…… ringing endorsement…… Green’s regime……stunning boardroom coup …… persuaded …..….huge boost …… £20million share….Smith’s return….. weeks of discussions…..Ian Harte also joins ……Smith’s endorsement….. investment regime…excite fans……. Ally McCoist …………. Smith……..fronted a bid …..Jim McColl ….….
[(Editor: a few word from us please) …… in the prospect of the 64-year-old returning to manage Scotland for a second spell, although “Sportsmail understands” the SFA may still ask the question. (phew)]
wholesale backing……. great privilege……Serious constructive efforts …… to ensure Rangers rises again….people who purchased ….are serious …. rebuild… happy …my support….full support …McCoist ….. also support Ian’s appointment …..done a lot for the youth squad over the years…Green….. major coup …..controversial chief executive ….. difficult …… behind him…..float …AIM market ….. share prospectus…coming weeks. ….. club believe ….£15-£20million of pledged support …institutional investors …. and supporters …. to stabilise ….. financial footing…..
[Anyone think a `journalist` could `compose` such independently and so quickly?]
Key Words: `Endorsement` `serious` `investment` `shares` `constructive` `stabilise` `financial footing` `20m` [Well they could have just said all that in one sentence] – but
Cognoscenti tags: Jim Mc Coll……Ian Harte ……..Green: `controversial` …`efforts` ….`prospectus; coming weeks` …`believe [not sure]`….. `institutional investors`
What’s missing: `Confidence` – otherwise no need for all this
Meanings: Basically, – Finances a bit of a worry – Chuckles needs cash + some new stabilisers – rescue – (something’s up – controversial? – bit of bailing? ) . And weren’t we told this bought from the admins as a going concern with 20 investors lined up?
PR should understand this stuff is well past its sell by date in this mess. Time for straight balanced reporting
I think it fairly clear that, with the return of Smith to join the board of the new club, the end of the play is nigh…
To be absolutely clear, even as a non-executive director, he is still fully and legally responsible for all the goings-on down Ibrox way from now on. Non-executive just means he has no involvement in the day-to-day running of business but does monitor the executive (ie, officers). Non-executive directors’ responsibilities are generally accepted as (and are effectively codified in governance codes):
– constructively challenging and contributing to the development of strategy.
– scrutinising the performance of management in meeting agreed goals and objectives and monitoring and where necessary removing senior management, and in succession planning.
– ensuring financial information is accurate and that financial controls and systems of risk management are robust and defensible.
– determining appropriate levels of remuneration of executive directors and appointing/removing senior management.
Take note messrs Greig, G Smith, et al – the “ah didnae know anything” defence doesn’t wash.
There is absolutely no institutional interest whatsoever in the IPO (do you think anyone could take Green seriously as the CEO of a plc?). Not a single football club has had a successful institutional investment and the City knows this. They learned their lesson a long time ago.
Seriously, it is not even being discussed in the City and the only hope for Green is that enough fans take up the offer which is why Smith has been “persuaded” to come in. It’s the last throw of a desperate man and it’s pretty obvious Smith knows this…
Two possible outcomes:
1. the IPO bombs and sevco go into administration and are bought out by new knights in shiny armour.
2. sevco fans take up the IPO and administration is staved off…however, I would fully expect Green to ride off into the sunset having “saved Rangers” to seek out new challenges. Share ownership will coalesce in the hands of a small group of wealthy “Rangers-minded” individuals and everyone (apart from the internet bampots) will pretend that nothing bad ever happened.
Whatever happens now, there will be a team playing out of Ibrox in blue calling themselves Rangers and laying claim to 140 years’ of history (except the bad bits of course which didn’t really happen except in some timmy conspiracy alternative parallel universe).
I heard Chuckles on Talk Sport again this morning, saying that his roadshow to prospective institutional investors was starting in Edinburgh today and will run for the next 7 or 8 business days across the UK. Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that these roadshows were meant to have started weeks ago.
He also confirmed that he had in excess of £20M in pledges thus far.
The world is watching, Chuckles. I’m sure that we will all find the truth about the success or otherwise of your share offer fairly soon.
Humble Pie says:
Sunday, November 11, 2012 at 13:01
Incisive, hard hitting, nail on the head post mate.
Simply brilliant.
corsicacharity says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 11:33
Sorry, I TD by mistake although to be honest I didn’t know which way to go. I agree entirely with your post but am ever so slightly scunnered that it appears a conclusion acceptable to all but the decent, honest football clubs and their supporters, may be approaching on the horizon.
I just can’t see that Smith would allow himself to become involved otherwise.
M8Dreamer
While I would be one of the last people to defend anything to do with Vladamir Romanov’s financial operation of Hearts, up till now although a considearble number of payments to HMRC, Staff, Players and various companies have been late, at least they have always eventually paid their bills.
This scenario may change in the near future, but there is no comparisn to the fraudulent dealings
at Rangers Football Club (deceased) who had debts of £134 million and have left a stream of creditors including HMRC and hundreds of companies seriously out of pocket, with no hope of ever getting any of it back.
The subsequent MSM and Scottish Football Authorities cover up of the fraudulent dealings at RFC are nothing short of a national disgrace and every effort must be made to ensure that all guilty parties are dealt with appropriately.
Hearts: Former players set up fighting fund
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20298609
Danish Pastry says: Monday, November 12, 2012 at 09:30
I was actually wondering why hangerhead didn’t respond to the posts made though. I hope he wasn’t another oldgold ruse.
————————-
Dear lord no, I’m my own man.
But I do have two small children and a dreadful Sky Broadband connection, guests and we are house hunting.
My original post was trying to point out that the early hostility (as I saw it at any rate) against either genuinely misinformed, or simply disbelieving Rangers fans, would have resulted in most of the good ones, not staying on at this or the previous site.
So, when a call to arms is made (to save the club), there wenre’t that many of the decent ones left – for sure, they wouldn’t have felt this/RTC page as being one wholly sympathetic to them (the fans, not the club(s)).
I’m a Celtic fan, and abhorred the Jelly Ice-Cream and Chapeau Brigade.
I’m here to learn what I can and see how it plays out, not dance on graves.
I’m the same when I watch a game of football, and was the same when I lived in Scotland and held a season Ticket at Celtic Park for 5 years. I can’t bear triumphalism.
This maybe marks me as something of an oddity in the football-supporter world, and even more so in Scotland.
Charles spouting it on talksport again
Says sfl meeting on wednesday to discuss possible restructuring of leagues
Walter thought deep and hard before getting involved again.
in london next week on investor roadshow
I noticed a comment last night that there appears to be a suggestion SEVCO have asked Alloa if they would accept a delay in their Scottish Cup payment?
I believe it is important to get confirmation on this Alloa payment delay…as this would confirm that SEVCO have a fical problem and the SFA have an almighty phuk up to explain…if indeed SEVCO are showing signs of financial distress.
Breaking
Greene to exit Servco! Having saved Rangers Charles Greene seeks pastures new – eyes Hearts wistfully.
hangerhead says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 12:41
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t believe that to be true.
Any Rangers fan who could be classified as a thinker…would have avoided the site mainly due to the facts being realised very quickly…
There was one or two who did contribute and who did so on a regular basis with critical honesty against their own club…they provided just honest observations and they were welcomed without any issue.
Yes there was some gloating….yes there was some rival banter…but I can assure you anyone who tried to move beyond the gloating with a small G or the clean banter where soon hounded by fans of all backgrounds..
Compare that to any of the SEVCO related supporters sites…you wouldn’t be tolerated under any circumstances for holding a view that offered a fair opinion against SEVCO…
So again I believe most fans are fair on here..we all have our moments…our disagreements…so yes if a SEVCO fan comes on..yes he might have a bit of banter…as long as he is not trolling or PR spinning…then the debate becomes robust.
i wonder if the nuclear event, when the details come out, may mean that Mr Smith would have to walk away on the grounds that he perhaps could not pass a fit and proper person test?
hangerhead says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 12:41
3 1 Rate This
Danish Pastry says: Monday, November 12, 2012 at 09:30
I was actually wondering why hangerhead didn’t respond to the posts made though. I hope he wasn’t another oldgold ruse.
————————-
Dear lord no, I’m my own man.
———
Apologies, I understood from your original posts that you were a Rangers fan. Anyway, your posts got a wee bit of debate going. Not a bad thing.
paulmac2 says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 12:48
10 0 Rate This
I noticed a comment last night that there appears to be a suggestion SEVCO have asked Alloa if they would accept a delay in their Scottish Cup payment?
I believe it is important to get confirmation on this Alloa payment delay…as this would confirm that SEVCO have a fical problem and the SFA have an almighty phuk up to explain…if indeed SEVCO are showing signs of financial distress.
=======================================
Entirely agree…….at this stage, this is nothing more than a rumour with nothing to back it up. it should be ignored and treated with the disdain we reserve for a Jabba/Chick Young/Jingle Jangle Jackson exclusive hot off the desk of Jack.
the original poster made some comment to it being “well known” or taxi driver talk and that others had heard it….sorry, but that isn’t good enough
some clarification/verification is needed or this needs to ignored.
While i dont regard this site as institutionaly anti rangers, it was always going to be the case that most comments would carry a flavour of the total disgust of how rfc ran their club and the pro rangers agenda of the msm and the governing bodies, and this feeling appears to be held by a large section of every other clubs fans. Maybe it did overstep the mark occasionally and i realise a lot of my own comments are partisan in that regard, such is my ongoing anger at the unfolding scandal.
I dont believe that it discourages rfc fans from engaging on here as the simple fact is, if you check any rfc fan forum you will see that there are very few posters on them that dont think the club are the victims in all this. Rfc fans will not countenance any criticism of the club from within their own ranks never mind in front of rival fans. Still to busy blaming Lawwell, sfa, spl, d utd, bbc, msm, hmrc and only whytes regime.
A striking absence of Hearts fans claiming Hearts are too big to fail or that whatever happens they must be kept in the SPL or treated as a special case and threatening that other clubs will sink into oblivion without Hearts in the SPL or that as long suffering fans we’ve been punished enough etc etc. For me the only club that would be seriously impacted by Hearts absence from the SPL would be Hibs as obviously the Edinburgh derbies are amongst their higher earning matches however nobody is bleating that there must be imminent league reconstruction to protect Hearts / Scottish football.
Indeed the only people making any noises that like that are the people that promote Sevco / The Rangers interests.
Anyone wanting to see what is being labeled on KDS as “It’s a Knockout Rememberance Day Special” – here is the full splendour of the dignified celebration……..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZUK4PYQmvk
If Rangers are looking to raise £20m and Charles Green is being quoted as saying they already have pledges in excess of this figure then why is he wasting precious company money of these investor roadshows?
If you already know you can raise the full funding you are after then do it now, don’t prevaricate any longer Charles.
Has the SPL Inquiry due to start tomorrow – officially – been delayed – in its entirety?
Long Time Lurker on Monday, November 12, 2012 at 13:12
3 0 Rate This
i wonder if the nuclear event, when the details come out, may mean that Mr Smith would have to walk away on the grounds that he perhaps could not pass a fit and proper person test?
——-
I was surprised like others as to the return of the prodigal son. RTC almost exploded when Watty popped his head above his bunker.
So why is he doing it again as it is a big risk for him.
We know that he will be given an easy ride by the MSM if RTCs evidence is anecdotal only.
What could be worth the risk of such exposure?
exiledcelt says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 13:41
=======================
Now maybe I’ve got the colours set wrong on my laptop, but is that not a big orange poppy at 1.11 of the video? Held up by a couple of soldiers? It’s even worse than I thought!
Why is Walter Smith seen as someone who will add value to The Rangers Share issue? A couple of weeks back The Battered Bunnet on CQN offered this in response to a post on Smiths spending in 2008.
If I were a potential share purchaser I would be wanting to know if Smith was an advocate of a continuation of the policies he willingly followed or is he now ready to own up that he as much as anyone was responsible for the fate that befell Rangers?
Auldheid
The Share Purchase Agreement between Murray and Whyte confrimed that the initial tax assessments on the scheme were received by Rangers in the period February to April 2008.
The following year they received another assessment (presumably for the prior year) in March 2009, and again in March 2010.
My reading of it is that Rangers continued to use the EBT scheme following the first determinations in Feb-April 2008 for the precedung 8 years, and thus the 2009 and 2010 assessments were for the previous year’s contribution.
Taking a fag packet and a blunt pencil to it, 85% of the total value of the EBT bill was received in the determinations Feb-April 2008 calcualted against contributions of £41M in the previous years, from a total of £46.7M to 2010.
A Penalty notice was received in September 2009, coincident with the appointment of Alistair Johnston as Chairman.
Miller, Velicka, Lafferty, Bougherra, Mendes, Edu and Davis were all signed in the summer of 2008 for a value (source soccerbase) of £17 Million, a short number of months after the first tax determinations totaling around £20 Million were received.
If any of these players were indeed on EBT enhancing deals, the stupidity is confounding.
Thanks to Mark Daly (and RTC by extension) we now know that Davis received £600,000 in EBT benefits, while Mendes enjoyed a whipping £1 Million. Both had side letters.
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818
By summer 2010, with all Tax demands received, appeals against the initial £36M tax and interest lodged and due heard October, David Murray’s business utterly ruined, no sight of a buyer after Andrew Ellis had shuffled off, and Lloyds supervising the business, the Board decided it was a good idea to spend £4M on Jelavic. [Smith being the one who really wanted the player and fair dos- he can spot a player for the Scottish game,but not the price]
My vocabulary is insufficient to find the words to describe the behaviour of these people.
Neepheid – even the scarves with the poppy on the with Lest we Forget look kind of more tangerine than poppy red to me too. Must my Toshiba PC settings too!
jonnyod says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 10:19
I think your bang on track with a clear and hypothesis that makes absolute sense. Every couple of week’s or so we have a little piece of the jigsaw put in place. I have no doubt as soon as C Ogilvie got the top job plans were hatched for this game to play out. Mr Ogilvie is the key to this he is the one who can influence it all (even while denying it). The plan although very simple, is also very clever and is clearly being hidden and goes unchallenged by the MSM, all spl club boards and politicians. The only people who want it to fail are us, we cant let them get away with it without a fight. I wish all the big hitters on here luck in uncovering the biggest sham in football, downfall etc was only part 1 of a two part story.