A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove
At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.
To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.
The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.
Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.
2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.
On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.
St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.
By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.
It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.
Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.
Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.
In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.
So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.
Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.
Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.
European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.
Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.
Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.
It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.
Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.
By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.
Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.
Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.
So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’
The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.
Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.
Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.
We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.
It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.
Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.
monsiuerbunny: Good point. It is what they did to gain access to SFL 3, made out they were BOOTED out of the SPL, then KICKED out of joining Div 1, then FORCED to start in Div 3. It was a way of acting like victims and in the end they corrupted the entire league system and were allowed into Div 3 which should never have been allowed. The blatant collusion and corruption going on was completely ignored by the MSM in favour of “they have suffered enough”, “kicked when they were down” and other Jabbaesque baloney. Makes sense that they go down that route again, it was 100% successful last time so why change anything now.
monsieurbunny says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:14
This happens all the time- it’s called politics!! Like Local Government consultation masquerading as negotiation!! Wouldn’t call it smart though, just devious.
Prohibby. 19.43
‘In the event of the proposed changes coming into effect’
__________________
They will never see the light of day if the bampots are not happy with it.
There is no reason why we cannot carry out another campaign to stop these snakes attempting to rig a new league structure to accommodate Servco.
I have seen lots of brass necks and bare faced chicanery in my time, but these guys beat banagher.
Come on Bampots lets prepare for another disciplined campaign.
First up, let us identify the main supporters sites of all clubs in Scottish football.
BTW, when I spell check bampots the alternative comes up as Lamp-posts – I think I’ll adopt that as my blog name – any suggestions? No time wasters please.
Senior says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:37
I wouldn’t even say it’s particularly pro-Sevco (aside from the reserves stuff), it’s just an extremely poorly thought out plan which will bankrupt smaller clubs. Because of that, I wouldn’t credit the SFL with having the intelligence to actually overly bias it towards Sevco.
iamacant says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:41
StevieBC says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:31
Still puzzled by his return though…
—————————————————————————————————————–
Here’s a daft suggestion for you.
What if the cardigan has recently paid back his “loan” to the trust, would he be so skint he needs the job to top up his pension fund? How much was the “loan?” Anyone know?
=========================
Don’t know the level of alleged EBT payments, but if ‘Walter’ has indeed repaid the amount I will eat my hat !
He – along with all the other EBT recipients – will cling desperately, IMO, to the last line of defence, i.e. that Rangers assured them the scheme was legitimate and checked by lawyers/accountants.
There is no way, IMO, that Sir W would readily accept personal liability – and then proactively take personal responsibility to make amends via repayment of any ‘loans’.
Then again, even if he did, shirley he would still be wealthy ? I got the impression he was also canny with his cash, and he has been a high earner for a couple of decades at least ?
Even as a pending OAP, I don’t think ‘Walter’ will be struggling to find the cash for his next pair of brogues… 😉
ordinaryfan @ 21:27
That is a very good point
All of the way through this fiasco, Charlie, the Sevcovians and their MSM apologists have used emotive language to portray Sevco as the victim, when nothing could be further from the truth
The old adage, say something often enough and it will become true, applies here
TRFC announce new sponsors:
twitpic.com/bcpk0q
Just watching TV and up pops a song with the lyrics
Come with me
And you’ll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you’ll see
Into your imagination
We’ll begin
With a spin
Traveling in
The world of my creation
What we’ll see
Will defy
Explanation
All I could think of was Charles Green 🙂
Try again:
<img src="http://twitpic.com/show/thumb
What a load of utter tosh being spouted today by Longmuir and Chuckles…. Longmuir… 2nd teams playing in lower leagues… already happening in part Longmuir… only the 1st “team” is liquidated… and the other one doesn’t need to worry about getting back to the top tier. So, next… Chuckles, with a complete load of tripe not even worthy of a quote.
I’m not normally one for any profanities, but I’ll make an exception in this case;
“Ya couple of F*nnies !”
Today we have had the prime example of why folk like me will never tire of reading, and infrequently contributing, to the comments lodged in this Blog.
Within a few short hours of the Longmuir/Sevco/Green proposals for league reconstruction being made public, the so aclled internet bampots have already torn it to shreds with analysis way above my means.
The contributions today have been first class, and I await with great excitement the contributions from some of our other big hitters.
Well done ladies and gents for your contributions so far.
Last try:
http://twitpic.com/bcpk0q
Apologies. ‘aclled’ should of course be ‘called’.
wottpi says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 18:09
11 1 Rate This
Are their first team then going to be playing their reserves if this is implemented for next season??
Or is it me and I am just missing something obvious here??
===================================
no problems there, be a bit like playing murderwell!!
Latest on the circus at Ibox on Saturday. It is now being reported that these so called soldiers were not in fact regular soldiers but a group from the UDA.
I had an inkling that these were not regular soldiers, as no commander would allow a body of men behave in this way while on parade – I think so?
wjohnston1 says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:58
0 0 Rate This
Apologies. ‘aclled’ should of course be ‘called’.
=======
Aploiesgs accetepd
The following has been copied from CQN, apologies if required, but it is unreal how these words are so applicable to a CEO of a new club in Glasgow.
Apologies on invoking Godwins Law but just read an article on Hitler on the BBC website that
contained the following paragraph :
“In an economic crisis millions of people suddenly decided to turn to an unconventional leader they thought had “charisma” because he connected with their fears, hopes and latent desire to blame others for their predicament.”
Senior says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:37
5
0
Rate This
Prohibby. 19.43
‘In the event of the proposed changes coming into effect’
__________________
They will never see the light of day if the bampots are not happy with it.
There is no reason why we cannot carry out another campaign to stop these snakes attempting to rig a new league structure to accommodate Servco.
I have seen lots of brass necks and bare faced chicanery in my time, but these guys beat banagher.
Come on Bampots lets prepare for another disciplined campaign.
First up, let us identify the main supporters sites of all clubs in Scottish football.
BTW, when I spell check bampots the alternative comes up as Lamp-posts – I think I’ll adopt that as my blog name – any suggestions? No time wasters please.
=================================================
Instead of “Lamp-posts”, why not simply “I’veseenthelight”
And it’s not pretty.
watched their half time video – not exactly a 5star military tattoo (ironically)
best bit is the card on the wreath at the very end, think it must be from the veterans to RFC
“lest we forget
rangers football club”
how very poignant.
Senior says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 22:05
Latest on the circus at Ibox on Saturday. It is now being reported that these so called soldiers were not in fact regular soldiers but a group from the UDA.
I had an inkling that these were not regular soldiers, as no commander would allow a body of men behave in this way while on parade – I think so?
***********
Senior, I do a lot of work with Royal British Legion and the Poppy Appeal so was very worried when I saw the video. I contacted a senior member of the armed forces with whom I have been recently working very closely and was told “it was undignified and inappropriate” and somebody would get a bollocking for it. There was no doubt that it was regular and territorial members of armed forces (I name checked the regiments and ships)…I am 100% certain the UDA thing is just taxi-driver gossip.
Senior says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 09:40
29 7 Rate This
‘BTW, we have received just over £300 in donations. Thanks to everyone who contributed. We’ll try to come up with a plan to spend it soon and we’ll put all or any proposals to the community before proceeding’
____________________________
Come on guys £300! at most 30 by £10 this is poor. I seen one post getting upwards of 250 thumbs up. I know as a community we can talk the talk but can we walk the walk???
TSFM Not everyone has access to paypal perhaps if there were other methods of payment the response would not be so disappointing.
—————–
I too like Senior was a bit disappointed with the donation figure. I personally am a lurker and have been for the best part of a year and enjoy every minute of all posts. My main contribution is spreading the word from TSFM. If PayPal is an issue there are other options when you hit the donate button.
This blog has so much potential. Lets walk the walk.
Senior says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 22:05
——–
I’m assuming you meant the UDR , the group you mentioned are a terror organisation
I watched the vid again and the participants were according to the gushing commentary
from the Royal Marine Reserves of Scotland
HMS Victorious HMS Nelson HMS Portland and I think HMS Dalmara which afaik doesnt exist any more and Commando Royal Marines based at Prestwick
orange poppies and orange sashes on show – quite vile
StevieBC says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:44
6 0 i
Rate This
iamacant says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:41
StevieBC says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:31
Still puzzled by his return though…
—————————————————————————————————————–
Here’s a daft suggestion for you.
What if the cardigan has recently paid back his “loan” to the trust, would he be so skint he needs the job to top up his pension fund? How much was the “loan?” Anyone know?
=========================
Don’t know the level of alleged EBT payments, but if ‘Walter’ has indeed repaid the amount I will eat my hat !
He – along with all the other EBT recipients – will cling desperately, IMO, to the last line of defence, i.e. that Rangers assured them the scheme was legitimate and checked by lawyers/accountants.
There is no way, IMO, that Sir W would readily accept personal liability – and then proactively take personal responsibility to make amends via repayment of any ‘loans’.
Then again, even if he did, shirley he would still be wealthy ? I got the impression he was also canny with his cash, and he has been a high earner for a couple of decades at least ?
Even as a pending OAP, I don’t think ‘Walter’ will be struggling to find the cash for his next pair of brogues…
=======================================================================
Stevie…I certainly don’t think that any hat eating will be necessary.
However, just for the sake of “transparency”, and just in case any recipients of said EBTs were to have a fit of conscience and wished to make “restitution”, to whom would they make the cheque payable…?
And how would they account for the tax…if at all…?
…just asking like….!
Re the video of Half time at Ibrox on Saturday .
That looked more like a drunken jolly boys outing than any show of respect for the fallen and I must think the top brass of the services involved will be fuming with the way that descended into such an embarrassing spectacle.
I am sure that those scenes will never have been witnessed at any other British football ground on such a sombre occasion
total embarrassment
Would Rangers reserves and Celtic reserves be able to produce their own audited accounts? Does a club need to be redefined? Are the reserves a subsidiary company? What about European qualification via cup competitions? May be unlikey – as unlikely as Rangers going bust? If the reserves qualified for Europe but the big team didn’t, would there be a lot of free transfers during the summer? What’s UEFA’s view? Is there a precedent? How do players progress from the reserves to the first team outwith the transfer window?
Looks like we need the world’s greatest football administrator to help us all out.
cosmichaggis says: Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:20
This league reconstruction is a total joke. Why oh why are the two ugly sisters the only chosen ones to have colt sides in Div3? Typical narrow minded Glasgow oriented tripe. Does nothing or no other team exist outside Glasgow, Celtic and Rangers then? Pathetic, insular, blinkered dinosaurs, the Scottish game is doomed if that is all they can come up with. Cannot believe they can’t stop putting the Glasgow firm first, dear oh dear when will they wake up.
============
“ugly sisters” ? And you got about 50 TUs? I know Rod Stewart greetin’ is no oil painting, but some of us look not too bad when we’re done up.
By the way, are Celtic involved in the proposed league fixing?
torrejohnbhoy says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:58
Last try:
http://twitpic.com/bcpk0q
————————-
Not in Larkhall.
exiledcelt says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 13:41
words fail me
jonnyod @ 23:00
And they wonder why people are turning against the Poppy Appeal
It has been hijacked by people like the Sevcovians, and turned from Remembrance to out and out triumphalism and jingoism
timtim says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 22:49
orange poppies and orange sashes on show – quite vile
===========
This “orange poppy” thing in my view is a serious matter, since it undermines the whole basis of the poppy appeal, which is entirely non-sectarian. The more I have thought about it, the more disgusted I have become. I have complained in the strongest terms to the Ministry of Defence regarding the public “performance” of their personnel, and I have copied the video link to the Royal British Legion. I would suggest that any others who share my disgust do the same.
That’s the last time I will use that taxi driver!
If, as you say, these were regular soldiers then a bollocking is not enough, heads should roll or demotion as a minimum.
To allow this rabble carry on in the way they did was a travesty. To allow a company of men who are suppose to embrace all sections of society to parade in this manner in a sectarian cauldron beggars belief, and on Remembrance Sunday to boot.
One question, who sanctioned the parading of these men, who, BTW, are funded by all taxpayers, to parade for a club/company who have evaded paying tax to the purported sum of £100 million. The mind boggles. The first head to roll should be the officer who sanctioned the above.
Please feel free to pass this on to the senior member of the Armed Forces you are in contact with.
Only generic responses fron Hibs and Hearts so far to the emails. Not surprised.
Has David Longmuir been in talks with Celtic regarding the reserve team idea, has he got the approval of SPL clubs to merge the leagues, what would the tv deal money be worth and how would it be distributed. Has he consulted Spartans and other clubs who may wish to join the professional (hahahahaha) set up.
If Celtic are involved then the crowds will fall dramatically imo. Hopefully this would be the case amongst the other clubs too.
I will give it till the end of the week for the responses to come flooding in (hahahahaha, again) then i think it would be time to take pro-active action to stop these idiots in their tracks. Maybe get onto supporters trusts and gage reaction to the proposals, unless i am seriously out of sync with most other supporters then they will be furious like me that a few clowns with agendas have drafted ridiculous ideas that just dont register in the minds of decent supporters. Maybe the trusts could take votes among their members and hold wildcat boycotts of games until the clubs force the changes that fans approve of. We have to believe that our clubs are prepared to accept this motion unless they get together and put a stop to this nonsense once and for all.
BTW. Regan, Ogilvie, Doncaster, longmuir, Ballantyne et al, you are custodians of our game, OUR game. Not yours, OURS. You are supposed to look after our interests, not your own, you have singularly and collectively failed, abjectly. You are a shambles, you are transparent, you are ridiculous and an embarrassment.
This is the single most important issue facing our game, the sevco pantomime will play out and rumble through the courts over the years and what will be, will be. We must remove these morons who are in charge immediately, before they do any more damage, we have the power to force our clubs to do as we wish if we have the weight of numbers in agreement. Im totally sickened at this farce, ive had enough. We must engage our own club forums and trusts and get this moving or it will be bludgeoned through in front of our eyes. When that happens we can have no complaints, all that will be left is to either accept our irrelevance or walk away and watch our clubs die.
Rant over.
And breathe.
neepheid says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:11
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timtim says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 22:49
orange poppies and orange sashes on show – quite vile
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This “orange poppy” thing in my view is a serious matter, since it undermines the whole basis of the poppy appeal, which is entirely non-sectarian. The more I have thought about it, the more disgusted I have become. I have complained in the strongest terms to the Ministry of Defence regarding the public “performance” of their personnel, and I have copied the video link to the Royal British Legion. I would suggest that any others who share my disgust do the same.
~~~~~~~~~~
neepheid – can you copy the address you used for MoD ? Responses can be shared on this site.
Not for the first time nor the last – an utter disgrace at Ibrox. And this is the club that feels persecuted ?
essexbeancounter says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 22:52
StevieBC says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 21:44
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iamacant says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:41
StevieBC says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 20:31
Still puzzled by his return though…
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Here’s a daft suggestion for you.
What if the cardigan has recently paid back his “loan” to the trust, would he be so skint he needs the job to top up his pension fund? How much was the “loan?” Anyone know?
=========================
Don’t know the level of alleged EBT payments, but if ‘Walter’ has indeed repaid the amount I will eat my hat !
He – along with all the other EBT recipients – will cling desperately, IMO, to the last line of defence, i.e. that Rangers assured them the scheme was legitimate and checked by lawyers/accountants.
There is no way, IMO, that Sir W would readily accept personal liability – and then proactively take personal responsibility to make amends via repayment of any ‘loans’.
Then again, even if he did, shirley he would still be wealthy ? I got the impression he was also canny with his cash, and he has been a high earner for a couple of decades at least ?
Even as a pending OAP, I don’t think ‘Walter’ will be struggling to find the cash for his next pair of brogues…
=======================================================================
Stevie…I certainly don’t think that any hat eating will be necessary.
However, just for the sake of “transparency”, and just in case any recipients of said EBTs were to have a fit of conscience and wished to make “restitution”, to whom would they make the cheque payable…?
And how would they account for the tax…if at all…?
…just asking like….!
—————
EBC, as you well know, all recipients of trusts loan will simply disclose in their tax returns that they have received an interest free loan from their employer and include it as part of their self-assessment. Did you hear that I’m getting a trial with Barcelona next week?
Just a thought, my last post was nonsense, the loan didn’t come from their employer. Perhaps they’ll just say, I got a loan from some guy, don’t know why but I deserved it
Looks like i picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
#airplane
thereek says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:26
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neepheid says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:11
6 0
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timtim says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 22:49
orange poppies and orange sashes on show – quite vile
===========
This “orange poppy” thing in my view is a serious matter, since it undermines the whole basis of the poppy appeal, which is entirely non-sectarian. The more I have thought about it, the more disgusted I have become. I have complained in the strongest terms to the Ministry of Defence regarding the public “performance” of their personnel, and I have copied the video link to the Royal British Legion. I would suggest that any others who share my disgust do the same.
~~~~~~~~~~
neepheid – can you copy the address you used for MoD ? Responses can be shared on this site.
Not for the first time nor the last – an utter disgrace at Ibrox. And this is the club that feels persecuted ?
#######
Meant to mention that Lindsay Herron, son of Allan Herron, stated that a rep from PoppyScotland was also in attendance. Their view ?
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:05
What’s UEFA’s view? Is there a precedent?
–
Spanish reserve teams play in the same league setup as the first teams.
There seems to be a hellishly complicated set of rules and caveats to keep them apart from each other and to prevent movement between squads.
Some info here
http://www.soccer-spain.com/ssdocs/history/league.php
Real Madrid’s reserves reached the cup final in 1980, where they lost 6-1 to……….Real Madrid!
Midcalderan.
I’m getting a trial with Barcelona next week?
========================
They’re mince. 😀
campsiejoe
I am of the opinion that our servicemen have been exploited by a certain club for years now and mostly on or about remembrance day .I believe that they were used by this club for their own agenda and I find it utterly shameful if so .What was witnessed on Saturday was the worst example yet of this .
I think the services need to now think long and hard regards their personnel attending such an event in future .Dignified it was not and as for an orange poppy ,that just beggars belief
I read a comment on rangersmedia yesterday that the military personnel at faslane had a ballot to see who got to go to ibrox on saturday, i reckon it would mostly be Trfc fans that applied.
If Trfc had invited the soldiers out for a lap of ibrox while an applause was ongoing, that would be commendable and honourable. No singing, no music, just clapping.
What actually went on was disrespectful in my view.
BTW, it does look like orange poppies on my phone, but is their any chance its just a poor recording with colour settings needing adjustment. They couldn’t possibly be that tacky, could they.
Lest We Forget
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6886/lestweforget.png
courtesy of Willie Vass http://www.willievass.com/
For the love of all that is good and holy, will the SFA please remove Campbell Ogilvie from his ‘post’ at Hampden – There is more than sufficient reason, more than good reason in fact and don’t be paying any worry about retribution via Campbell’s employment lawyer – he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Ach, what’s the point? If the SFA played it by – their own – rule book, then that cretin Ogilvie and a couple of others would have been thrown out the door a long time ago, does anyone on this blog honestly think the F.A of our English neighbours would be afforded such relative anonymity to do whatever they like – break rules, be party to rule breaking and lying through their collective backsides – as a rule – honestly, it’s simply bizarre – the only time Fatman Traynor and Keith ‘Jingle Jangle’ Jackson throw critique at the authorities is when something horrid has befallen the peepil…like the absurd notion of having league members reject blatant cheating and rule breaking…oh how dare such a monumental scam be scuppered by these little people, moans sweaty and stinky Jim Traynor – Jingles is on the other phone and it’s Jack Irvine looking for Fatman – Jim can’t talk jist noo, Jack – he’s just ran tae the toilet wi an old MIH prospectus.
Jingles gets lucky and gets next Jack’s PR piss / Daily Record Exclusive all to himself – and that my friend is exactly how it works with these fckn complete and utter pathetic excuses for journo’s. And we all know exactly why others – others sans Media House for example – tow the line, it’s because they get threatened. Simple as that. You want proof? Ask the Police.
Sycophancy and suppression. The motto of Scotlands MSM.
The MSM can be ignored by us all, probably is already the case anyway I would imagine – fast losing relevance throughout the Scottish football community – idiots like Fatman and Jingles have hastened the decay. The decay within the SFA cannot be simply ignored or mocked – there is still rotten intention and practise going on – orchestrated by a very compromised individuals, yes, this ‘5-way’ agreement thing – who the hell do these clowns think they are??
There should be a concerted effort to have some kind of contact with regards to so many questions – what has happened to all Regan and Doncasters tweets – what has happened to them, in general? Where are they?? Can the official ‘tartan army’ supporters orgs, the league clubs fans orgs and others not engage with the people who are ‘running our game’ ???
Supporters orgs together can strip this rotten system bare – Does anyone think Regan and Doncaster would get away with their antics anywhere else? Not a hope in hell would they.
Get rid of the lot of them.
I believe the orange poppies are just bad colour in the video. Orange scarves being worn by troops are the real deal though.
bfkdy says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:37
Real Madrid’s reserves reached the cup final in 1980, where they lost 6-1 to……….Real Madrid!
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Aye, the ref was a “homer” 🙂
Another thought on the half time show
In the bottom corner of the video produced by Triggers Broom FC TV, it has a Union Jack and has a darkened silhouette of a man/soldier holding a gun – now given the complaints about the Zombie banner, is it just me that sees the hypocrisy from these folks?
bfkdy says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:37
Spanish reserve teams play in the same league setup as the first teams.
There seems to be a hellishly complicated set of rules and caveats to keep them apart from each other and to prevent movement between squads.
Some info here
http://www.soccer-spain.com/ssdocs/history/league.php
Real Madrid’s reserves reached the cup final in 1980, where they lost 6-1 to……….Real Madrid!
———————————————————–
Thanks. Seems farcical to me. It basically confirms that everyone else is just fodder for the chosen ones. Teams should be there on merit and progress where merited, not denying others the opportunity (again).
Has anybody noticed that SSB is now hardly mentioned on this Blog when for months the Numpties could check Bampot reaction to their latest drivel in real time?
I have to say I haven`t missed reading what people think about SSB
But I bet theyre missing it….as well as their sponsors
How negligent were Ranger’s other directors when a real businessman like Joe Lewis arrived at this conclusion?
“In 1996, ENIC Group invested £40 million in Rangers. However, disagreements with Murray over transfer spending led to ENIC’s Howard Stanton resigning from the club’s board of directors in May 1999. ENIC announced plans to sell their 20.2% stake in Rangers in February 2001,] but after failing to find a buyer they sold to Murray for £8.9 million in August 2004.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Murray_(Scottish_businessman)
In their capacity as RFC directors, they – substitute Greig for Walter – should have told DM to stop his nonsense. They clearly failed in their responsibility as directors in 1999 and that failure continued until 2012. They failed to act in the interest of shareholders in order to protect DM.
This reserve team concept is not only stupid but it is also coming in my view from one corner – CG.
He thinks he can fill Ibroke every week now if he can get the chance – or be able to convince investors he can. The thinking is – well they already fill up Ibroke right now watching reserves playing in SFL3, so if we have a team in SFL1 and SFL3, we get 40K every single week at Ibroke.
Its so ill thought out is incredible!
In Germany, they had their resere clubs play in the regional leagues -however they are treated as seperate clubs for the players registered to them but cannot play in cups and so cannot met their other club in a competition.
The only person I can see interested in this is CG – it makes money for him.
I don’t see how this would make money for anyone else – maybe a few might go to Albion Rovers for example to see AR play TRFC reserves but given that TRFC would be playing at Ibroake that day, not sure many would do so. SO assume this is CG thinking he can get 40K every week instead of every 2 weeks.
Its utter and complete non starter!
Anyhow, the TRFC reserve team will be playing in the NI Milk Cup according to Charlie – so is that 2 reserve sides he needs to have?
rab says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 23:42
10 0 Rate This
Midcalderan.
I’m getting a trial with Barcelona next week?
========================
They’re mince.
——————-
Doesn’t mean I won’t sign if they think I’m good enough. I’m only 65 after all.
goosygoosy
Goty my weekly fix of SSB tonight, was predictably about the crisis at Celtic, all 2 hours of it!
Real Madrid’s reserves reached the cup final in 1980, where they lost 6-1 to……….Real Madrid!
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Thanks. Seems farcical to me. It basically confirms that everyone else is just fodder for the chosen ones. Teams should be there on merit and progress where merited, not denying others the opportunity (again).
=========================================
to be fair, they don’t traditionally take the cup very seriously in Spain.
abcott says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 00:41
to be fair, they don’t traditionally take the cup very seriously in Spain.
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I beg to differ abcott. The Copa del Rey is highly prized in Spanish football circles
Having a reserve Rangers or Celtic in a lower league will only benefit both and nobody else and establish a bigger gulf. I previously would have thought otherwise but being on here has opened my eyes to the alternative view.
abcott at 00.41:
If my memory serves me right, Real Madrid’s Reserves, FC Castilla, were knocked out of the Cup Winners Cup by West Ham.
I think we should make a clear distinction between the SFL management ie Longmuir & Ballantyne plus those clearly influencing and co-operating with them ie Green, a those SFL member clubs the overwhelming majority of whom voted in favour of sporting integrity despite the bullying, corruption and threats of social disruption and armageddon etc.
One other interesting nugget of information I learned today that I previously didn’t know or that hadn’t registered was that Campbell Ogilvie’s very first senior job in Scottish football, before he spent decades at Ibrox or served Hearts or the SFA, he was League Secretary for The Scottish Football League!!
exiledcelt says:
Monday, November 12, 2012 at 13:41
Dignified? …… No
Respectful? …….. No
Honourable? ……. No
What that video exhibited was nothing less the misappropriation of the war dead (who were both civilian and military, lest we forget) by a football club for purposes no more base than their own promotion.
Were Cameron, Miliband, Clegg et all to instigate the ‘bouncy bouncy’ at the Cenotaph would the onlookers or the Royal British Legion join in?
For me, Kilmarnock Football Club & Ross County Football Club showed how an honourable and dignified mark of respect be provided ……. a lone bugler in the centre circle, the last post, a silence from the stands followed by a resounding volley of applause.
As an ex serviceman, I find it shameful and repugnant that some current service personnel deem this behaviour an appropriate mark of respect.
For a football club to use the memory of the dead for self promotion – utterly loathsome.
briggsbhoy says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 00:54
Having a reserve Rangers or Celtic in a lower league will only benefit both and nobody else and establish a bigger gulf. I previously would have thought otherwise but being on here has opened my eyes to the alternative view.
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EXACTLY – this will only drive a bigger wedge between the WoS bias and everyone else. Why should a RFC(IL) and Celtic get preference over teams from outwith the Glasgow region? If this should happen, I can see a helluva lot more fans “walking away” due to the incompetence of the “custodians” of our game. Mr Hutton, are you ready? Your time has come as they cannot now pull you up for telling the truth that they are corrupt. You told the truth and they disappeared into the background of red white and blue,
The most dignified thing a football club can do is leave rememberance sunday to where it’s most appropriate and in 99.9% of instances that won’t involve football stadiums or football matches unless we ever get into the bizarre scenario of 11am kick off’s on rememberance sunday?
Anyway my club Hearts for over 90 years has had it’s own cenotaph and memorial clock at Haymarket and all rememberance services have been held there in memory of the fallen players and members of HMFC but also of other local clubs Hibernian, Raith and Falkirk who contributed to the same regiments and who still send representatives and/or a wreath every year. For the record it has only been ever held at Tynecastle stadium in recent years when those bloody never ending tramworks made it impossible to hold it at Haymarket also the cenotaph/clock is currently dismantled and in storage until all tramworks in that area are finally completed then it will be re-positioned to it’s former location. As I said tramworks apart then in 99.9% of instances there is no good reason why these events should ever involve football stadiums nevermind football matches. Every city, town and village has it’s own rememberance monuments and services and that is where public acts of rememberance should be focused imo not at the fitba.
iamacant says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 00:53
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abcott says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 00:41
to be fair, they don’t traditionally take the cup very seriously in Spain.
——————————————————————————————————————–
I beg to differ abcott. The Copa del Rey is highly prized in Spanish football circles
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my mistake. sorry
briggsbhoy says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 00:54
Having a reserve Rangers or Celtic in a lower league will only benefit both and nobody else and establish a bigger gulf. I previously would have thought otherwise but being on here has opened my eyes to the alternative view.
****************
The biggest benefit is to TRFC – they have created a mentaility whereby the TRFC fans will boycott the away games where TRFC are playing to teach DUFC etc a lesson – this si why they will try to have a reserve game as an alternative for them to go to watch. This is why I think the idea has come from CG.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/graeme-souness-smith-appointment-validates-green-1-2630107
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/glimmer-of-hope-as-hearts-discuss-deal-with-hmrc-1-2630086
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/sfl-s-reconstruction-plan-on-its-way-1-2630083
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/yorkston-confident-pars-can-pay-tax-bills-1-2630097
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-sfl-will-unveil-league-shake-up-plans-this-week.1352744785
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/talks-offer-chink-of-light-as-fans-make-hearts-move.19404966
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/souness-regrets-at-failed-takeover-are-eased-by-smiths-appointment.19399259
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/sfl-make-old-firm-colt-teams-proposal.19404900
I thought one of the proposed goals of league reconstruction at least according to the SFA who would like to implement the major principles of the mcleish report was the formation of a proper league pyramid to incorporate all the non league clubs into a comprehensive system which could also include ‘colts’ teams for those clubs that wish to run them?
I don’t see anything like that in the proposals and also why would or should it only be Celtic and Sevco who get offered the first 2 extra spaces? Where is the meritocracy?
Whilst on the one hand my inclination is to do everything we can to ensure Hearts survive and that we can pay our bills and taxes etc when you read or see yet more shite like these league proposals you really wonder wtf is the point?
Internet bampotery helped convince enough clubs to do the right thing during the summer but in the cold light of day the facts are that every single one of Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster, Blair and Topping, Longmuir and Ballantyne etc are all still in position and now ‘guiding’ league reconstriction.
Maybe the internet is not enough? Maybe we really need to beseige Hampden with pitchforks and chase this lot out?
I can cope with another few seasons of the Scottish football leagues operating the way they are at the moment.
It is not the leagues which are crying out for change. It is the football authorities which have shown themselves to be not fit for purpose, corrupt and biased. Nothing less than the removal of Ogilvie, Regan, Doncaster, Blair, Topping, Longmuir and Ballantyne, can restore any kind of faith in football in this country.
This is the immediate change which needs to take place. Scottish football would be improved immeasurably without a league being touched.
Last night’s PANORAMA made interesting viewing.
Badgers spread bovine tuberculosis which kills cattle. A programme of culling the badgers was postponed by the government but will now take place next year. Scientific research in some quarters is arguing that the systematic extermination of these animals is not solving the problem. Animal rights organisations want the proposed killings stopped.
But here’s the good bit. The chairman of an animal welfare charity – patron, Her majesty the Queen – called for the names of the two companies who are to carry out the killings to be released on the internet, the names of the heads of these organisations and their employees, to be made public. (He knows the names, but would obviously never dream of naming names himself.)
Within hours of this dog whistle being blown, the names, address and contact details of employees of these two companies, were all over the internet. The threats started almost immediately and those involved had to take security measures to protect themselves and their families.
PANORAMA immediately went back to the chairman of the animal welfare charity and, metaphorically speaking, nailed his ass to a cakestand for inciting violence and putting the lives of these employees, their innocent wives and children at risk.
There is now widespread pressure on the chairman to resign after his despicable behaviour.
I’m sure the programme did say ‘Badgers’, not, ‘Rangers’, although for a split second, I did wonder.