A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove
At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.
To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.
The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.
Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.
2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.
On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.
St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.
By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.
It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.
Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.
Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.
In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.
So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.
Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.
Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.
European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.
Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.
Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.
It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.
Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.
By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.
Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.
Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.
So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’
The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.
Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.
Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.
We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.
It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.
Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.
And from STV
Stewart Regan has no concerns over the failure of both the SPL and SFL to work together on change to the structure of the Scottish leagues.
The Scottish FA previously set a November 30 deadline for the bodies to reach a final decision on the best way forward, and proposed setting up a working party of representatives from both to hold talks.
That group failed to materialise and now both leagues are to present plans to their respective clubs on separate ideas for revolutionising the league setup, implying the cut-off date has been relaxed.
Regan, chief executive of the Scottish FA, says he is relaxed over the split between the two leagues and expects the Professional Game Board to hear plans in due course before taking one forward.
“Let’s look at the facts,” Regan told STV. “Nobody can go their own way without a unified process.
“Proposals have to start somewhere. Something has to be put on the table that actually gets clubs talks and interested.
“We had a whole series of proposals that were put forward over the last 18 months, led by the SPL. Those required clubs to vote on them and try and get a consensus.
“We are in exactly the same position. This time the SFL think they have a proposal that will work and get the buy-in from the fans and the clubs. That’s to be seen.
“That process will be started tomorrow. It will be followed up by the SPL, who will consult their own clubs.
“When we have a consensus we feel we can take forward, that’s the point the Professional Game Board will try and put the meat on the bones and move the debate forward.
“We can’t do it until we’ve got the first part of that tabled.”
Regan defended the failure to forge a working party, saying he is content with the current process as long as clubs were in approval.
He added: “It was really all about trying to get a proposal that clubs were happy with. The feeling was there needed to be a consultation process.
“Once we have got formal feedback, the Professional Game Board will be able to take it forward. That’s still very much the plan.
“I think it’s with the clubs. Any progress has to have the buy-in of member clubs. Until that consultation has been held, it’s going to be very difficult to make comment on that.”
nawlite says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 13:51
I bow to others’ wisdom on this, but I can’t see how SDM* could simply walk back in as owner again.
====================
He is not going to appear as the owner, he can’t for legal reasons, but he will surely be the real owner, if he hasn’t been the real owner along.
So long as no other individual claims to be the owner of TRFC, and currently the talk is of a consortium, even our Charlie doesn’t claim to own it himself, then I will believe that Sir David Murray is the true owner. Hidden behind however many layers of BVI companies, offshore trusts, Liechtenstein Anstalts, however many layers of anonymity it takes, but he will be the man pulling the strings.
I don’t pay normally much attention to TU/TDs, but I was struck by the fact that my earlier post theorising regarding SDM’s continued involvement immediately attracted a cluster of TDs. Mmmm? Too close to the bone? Or just a crap post?
Charles Green admitting that one SPL club has already died:
“Whether the SPL can survive if two clubs go out of business would be really questionable.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2232183/Hearts-turmoil-fast-track-Rangers-claims-Charles-Green.html
neepheid says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 14:13
But wouldn’t he still be overly worried that BDO would find the link? Plus, if he had to hide his ownership, he wouldn’t get the benefits? Would he run the risk for a warm glow?
so in the green corner we have Longmuir, Ballantyne & Ogilvie formulating their plans and in the blue corner we have Neil Doncaster to propose his latest masterplan …………….
you just know it’s gonna be another long road ahead.
Never mind the complicated questions like how to compensate the points between the bottom of new Div1 and the top of new Div3 when 2 become 3, you have to ask in what other country would such a split be proposed? Laughing stock Now, ……!
nawlite says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 14:41
But wouldn’t he still be overly worried that BDO would find the link? Plus, if he had to hide his ownership, he wouldn’t get the benefits? Would he run the risk for a warm glow?
============
He’s not the worrying kind- anyway, he will have paid top money to ensure that his involvement is buried so deep that BDO won’t stand a chance of making anything stick to him.
What benefits? People like SDM are only interested in two things, money and power, which comes down to only one thing in the end. So long as he has the power, so long as he is the man pulling the strings, then he will be happy with that. That’s all the benefit he needs.
My personal thought is that SDM is out of the picture as far as TRFC is concerned – it met its purpose for him and now he only needs to bury his gold and hide his tracks. He used RFC to get into Scottish Business circles and he used those connections to further himself – he now has his money stashed somewhere and making money on vinyards. He is not going to care about TRFC – he took enough abuse in the latter years from the Peepil – he is only interested in his legacy not being besmirched and his freedom being taken from him to his new suite in Bar-L.
Dave King on the other hand has many interests – namely TRFC and his main hobby – getting money out of SA to make it legitimate somewhere/anyway/anywhere.
I have little doubt he supplied Ticketus with the sudden investment they received last year in March in order to “loan” the money to CW.
I have little doubt his little sojurns in and out of Ibroke are not coincidental
I have little doubt he was as Corsica said, in Switzerland with Ellis, CG and CW.
I have little doubt who the major backer is to CG
I have no doubt Walter has come back to smooth the transition for CG to exit left.
Question is whether he has hidden his trakcs well enough that BDO will not uncover them – that is, if they are interested in uncovering them
It seems to be delay, deflect, delay………….
There is no way any club, other than Servco, will vote for reconstruction if it means losing thousands of season ticket holders. The only danger is if the vote is secret.
All talk of reconstruction should be put on hold until this tawdry episode currently affecting Scottish football is dealt with transparently and quickly. Failing this, a massive campaign will be put in place to encourage season ticket holders to withhold subscription until the voice of the bread and butter of the game in Scotland THE FANS are listened too
I feel an email like the above should be drafted and sent to all clubs and their fans in Scotland. If you feel the above post can be improved on please feel free to amend same.
I think when we establish the proper wording for this email we should pull out the stops to have it available to all fair-minded fans in Scottish football.
And so the fun begins http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/200346-fans-group-submits-bid-to-buy-hearts-from-vladimir-romanov/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Fans group submits bid to buy Hearts from Vladimir Romanov
STV 13 November 2012 14:35 GMT
A consortium of Hearts fans has submitted a bid to buy the football club from Vladimir Romanov.
The group, calling themselves Foundation of Hearts, tabled a written offer to buy Heart of Midlothian from the Russian businessman this week.
The consortium, registered at an address in Melville Street in Edinburgh’s west end, is continuing talks to take control of the club, which is facing a winding up order from HMRC over unpaid taxes.
Behind the group are 58-year-old city insurance chief Alex Mackie, who owns Edinburgh Risk Management Ltd.
Also listed as Foundation of Hearts directors are 48-year-old property developer Brian Cormack, 69-year-old money advisor Jim Bryant and 68-year-old former Hearts striker Donald Ford.
The group aims to create a fan ownership model and has been working with Paul Goodwin of Supporters Direct to put the deal together.
Mr Goodwin, who was instrumental in Stirling Albion supporters purchasing their club in 2010, confirmed the Foundation of Hearts bid to STV.
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 13:54
To be honest, you won’t find me disagreeing with anything you’ve said – I just find the timing to be inexplicable. When the SPL is finally proving that it could just about be a viable entity, they now decide to change it – not when it was absolutely dying on it’s @rse!
————————————————————————————-
You don’t mean to say what was really needed to improve the SPL was just to get rid of one club?
neepheid says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 14:13
14 5 i
===========================================
Just my opinion Neepheid, but I don’t think that David Murray will ever again have a controlling interest over any football club playing at Ibrox calling itself Rangers, not even behind a curtain Wizard of Oz-type influence. The man’s simply got bigger things to worry about. I don’t believe that Graham Souness will get himself involved in the latest entity either.
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 12:38
Rate This
neepheid says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 12:28
I cannot see (S)DM ever coming back to the Club – his safest option, in my opinion is to walk far, far away from it and to have nothing more to do with it.
If (S)DM was pulling the strings in the background – would HMRC move in for the kill – a phoenix Club? Again, walking away seems the safest option for (S)DM.
I also think that the Club has outlived its usefulness to (S)DM – I am not so sure that he was a fan. He wanted to milk it for the (preceived) status that RFC brought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He wasn’t. That’s why he tried to buy Ayr United first but was rebuffed by that board.
monsieurbunny says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 15:36
0 0 i
Rate This
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 13:54
To be honest, you won’t find me disagreeing with anything you’ve said – I just find the timing to be inexplicable. When the SPL is finally proving that it could just about be a viable entity, they now decide to change it – not when it was absolutely dying on it’s @rse!
————————————————————————————-
You don’t mean to say what was really needed to improve the SPL was just to get rid of one club?
======================================================
I don’t think he meant to say that, but it is becoming bleeding obvious that is exactly the case. Getting rid of that club has broken the duopoly stranglehold on Scottish football and allowed it breath again and hopefully flourish
midcalderan says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 00:27
How negligent were Ranger’s other directors when a real businessman like Joe Lewis arrived at this conclusion?
———–
Sorry to backtrack, must be the burrowing badger in me. Thanks for that part of the jigsaw midcalderan. It was news to me.
Googled Howard Stanton and ENIC and found this story from The Daily Telegraph from December 2000. Murray’s cocky statements are almost comedic in retrospect:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/2995207/ENIC-will-prove-perfect-friend-say-Rangers.html
If these guys (ENIC) lost something in the region of £30m and Dave King £20m, well that’s quite a lot of cash going into a club that was dodging tax. Where did it all go? Does someone have a nice wee Post Office savings account somewhere?
Football is really a simple game.
When you have the ball, you pass it to one of your own team, retain possession with the aim of moving up the field and scoring a goal. When you don’t have the ball then you need to close down your opponents, pressure them into making mistakes, tackle them and get the ball back.
Players need to fit to withstand the rigours of the modern game and be trained in the technical aspects of the game, so they know how to trap, pass, cross the ball and shoot. They need to be trained in tactics of where to run and when. Specialist training for goalies is about all that is required.
Running a football league is simple as well.
You agree on the number of teams, play home and away either twice or four times to make a reasonably long season.
If you have lots of teams you have a lower league that has a similar number of teams to the top league and you organise it in the same way. If you have lots and lots of teams then further lower divsions are required and these can be set up in a variety manners to help clubs with limited income to survive, e.g. regional leagues.
End of season you have promotion and relegation and if your desrie you make it a wee bit more competitive by having a play-off system to see who goes up or down.
Why is it that this country seems to be one of the few in the world that wants to complicate things with splits, different size leagues, altering the rules to suit one particular team.
Meanwhile the rest of the world gets on with operating ‘traditional’ leagues and developing their players skills and talents to the extent that all their players can do the basics, as described above, generally in a more competent manner than our home grown talent.
Wottpi, much as I dislike splits, and the new ones proposed are ludicrous, there are many, many countries that have a split of some sort so we are not one of the few.
bobferris70 – how many countries have a contract for TV rights that is allegedly written so that even if there is a split, 2 teams must always be in the same section otherwise the TV contract is null and void? That would be none I bet……
Danish Pastry says: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 15:51
“If these guys (ENIC) lost something in the region of £30m and Dave King £20m, well that’s quite a lot of cash going into a club that was dodging tax. Where did it all go?”
I “did the math” back on RTC and also posted on some other sites – based on Hugh Adam’s quote back in 2002 regarding how lousy a businessman Murray was: “Exactly how else can losses of £80 million over the past five years – despite almost £60 million of outside investment in that time – be explained?”
So Hugh Adam stated £140m in losses over 5 years. Add to that the Lloyds debt, debt to Murray’s other companies, taxes and fines owed and I came up with the (apparently conservative) figure of £1/4 billion “spent” on Rangers over 15 years. Losses of £16m a year. For 15 years! Minimum!
£250million spun… er, blown on a football team is bad enough. But a Scottish football team?!? That didn’t even win everything?!?!
Does that not deserve a “wow”?
Lord Wobbly says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 14:40
Thanks for posting that LW but the more I read of Green’s ramblings the higher my blood pressure becomes. The man is so arrogant; in one brief interview he isolates and rubbishes the country we live in, decries the SPL and it’s member clubs, goes on to suggest that Scottish football is only about Rangers and Celtic and nothing else and “old firm” games are what everybody wants to see- even although there is no “old firm”. How did we all survive without this man?
BF70, a VERY quick Google search shows Iraq and Wales as countries who have splits. I’m sure more investigation might find more. I still think a split is embarrassing and this proposed one more so than usual.
Mr Charles, in the Daily Mail article posted by Wobbly above:
‘Scottish football effectively is Rangers and Celtic. I mean, there are many other clubs but everyone has to acknowledge that that’s a fact.
‘Scottish football needs Rangers back at the top and Rangers being a vital part of European football. That’s where we’re trying to get them.
‘The Old Firm is the world’s biggest derby. That’s what world football wants, what broadcasters and sponsors wants, to see those games again. God willing we’ ll see that in the years ahead.’
——
Gasp. Where to start …?
Can this man not open his mouth without a stream of fetid nonsense cascading out of it? Can he, maybe, manage just one sentence that is not composed of tripe?
Unless someone in authority stops delaying proceedings left, right and centre and allows this idiot to get out of Scottish football soon, I feel I will slide back to the point I was at in the summer … one where I lose interest in the “game” altogether.
It really is quite amusing that for someone who has vowed never to play in the SPL, green seems awfully concerned about reconstruction. When will they take a hint and just bugger off and leave us all in peace?
It’s very unedifying watching them cling to Celtic’s coat tails so desperately. Once again he’s alienating the very people he needs to win over; and who else laughed heartily at “Rangers being a vital part of European football” !? Deluded doesn’t even come close.
As a long term Celtic fan may I offer an observation that was acted out last season and may well be repeated this season
For decade upon decade irrespective of the quality of the team on the park Celtic have lost games they ought to have won and lost titles and trophies they ought to have won
Lets put it down to “bad luck”
By comparison
The deid Rangers rarely lost games they should have won or lost titles and trophies they should have won
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Others may disgree
However
If I was a fan of another SPL club I would expect my team to do better in the current league set up than in the one which applied before RFC died
exiledcelt says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 15:24
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’m also thinking what you are thinking. I have cut out the face of King”””yyyy and glued it to the final piece of my jigsaw but I’m not putting it in place just yet.
I’m also thinking he is going to be at the centre of the nuclear revelations to come.
jockybhoy says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 16:22
5 0 Rate This
£250million spun… er, blown on a football team is bad enough. But a Scottish football team?!? That didn’t even win everything?!?!
———-
It’s mindboggling jockybhoy. There’s a little cynical part of me that wonders if it was all actually spent, invoices don’t necessarily prove real expenditure. Some of that lovely moolah might have been sent to those ever-helpful uncles Monty and Carlo for safe-keeping 🙂
scottc says on David Murray:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 15:41
That’s why he tried to buy Ayr United first but was rebuffed by that board.
————————————————————————————————-
Does anyone know what the Ayr Utd Board knew that made them reject him?
Now Sir Fergie of Govan is promoting the Sevco shares and Green, will he but any I doubt it.
In Europe alone, the following league all have splits of some sort – Azerbaijan, Belgium, Cyprus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Israel, Malta, Northern Ireland, Russia, Turkey and Wales.
I agree about the tv contract point exiledcelt, but that wasn’t the point I was addressing.
1 Scotland is currently characterised by its
a) corrupt weak media
b) corrupt weak parliament
c) corrupt weak slow justice system
d) corrupt weak football league
2. Scotland encourages entrepreneurs by having
a) no rigorous transparency in company registration
b) relaxed scritiny over company formation requirements
c) no “fit and proper person” assessment
d) “back-door” channels to funding that by-pass those made available to the Scottish public
3. Scotland needs national autonomy or independence because
a) it’s the only way people in Scotland will have access to any true control over the assets and future of the nation
b) there’s a small minority of people needing their a*ses kicked for making Scotland look sh*t
c) otherwise the damnation and subservience will be eternal
d) then there’ll be no excuse and the nation can take real responsibility
Or even buy any doh!
lurchingfrompillartopost says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:23
many or all of these things are true in my opinion but iam not sure this is the correct forum for this political discussion?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:15
0 0 Rate This
Now Sir Fergie of Govan is promoting the Sevco shares and Green, will he but any I doubt it.
============
Okay the person who told me this does not know his Alex from his Ian 🙂
bobferris70 says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:18
Bob, Happy to be put in my place but we are hardly talking footballing powers here albeit Belgium are on a good run of from just now.
Maybe that just shows who we belong with for having a split?
I note that in Belgium the bottom two play each other 5 times to see who is relegated- that must be fun!
I hear on BBS Radio Scotland that Hearts owners have rejected the bid to take over club, described the bid as no where near the true valuation and those involved have obvioulsy not understood the position in which Hearts find themselves, close to those words. Not good news I suppose for the supporters group.
From RM:
going to ibrox every week. A team 1 week the B team the next week. Rangers fc get all of our money not the spongers and hangers on getting a living from the bears
—————————————————————————————————————-
Well good for all Scottish clubs to know the thinking behind league reconstruction and vote accordingly on the issue of colt teams.
Charlie Brown on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:30
Sorry my bad, i’m having difficulty separating one from another. league reconstruction seems purely about political/financial control to me, as does delay over legal/corporate and financial processes relating to the clubs and characters that precipitated rtc and tsfm. not to mention the scale of the suppression of information relating to the story.
compare and contrast how speedy new companies, clubs, agreements, rule waivers, bidders, owners, league formats, etc., can be up and running and in the public domain with no accountable clarity that anyone with a reasonable independent mind could scrutinise.
shouldn’t have mentioned the Scotland thing, eh?
ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:12
scottc says on David Murray:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 15:41
That’s why he tried to buy Ayr United first but was rebuffed by that board.
————————————————————————————————-
Does anyone know what the Ayr Utd Board knew that made them reject him?
=======================================================================
His father?
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug
#Hearts agree extention with HMRC to setle bill. #BBCSport
Retweeted by Yash
Chris McLaughlin@BBCchrismclaug
#Hearts agree extention with HMRC to setle bill. #BBCSport
The Swedes have actually increased the size of their top league over the past decade. It’s now on 16:
“Teams placed 15-16 are relegated to Superettan the next season while the 14th placed team contests a play-off against the 3rd placed team of Superettan.”
So potentially 3 up – 3 down. Between about 1982 and 1992 they had a kind of split that decided the championship among the top teams. A bit of a dissatisfying end to the season of you asked me, but actually might work in a country with just one strong team. They’ve now dropped that kind of thing and the winner the 30-game H/A fixture season wins it. Seems sensible to me, especially since the playoff at the end of the season adds a bit of spice.
#Hearts agree extention with HMRC to setle bill. #BBCSport
hahahahahahhaahahaha – they don’t do deals! LOL
sevconians will be beelin!
Constructive dismissal is a term used for the situation where you don’t sack someone but just make their job uncomfortable to the point where they leave.
Bringing in Walter Smith may just be a hint to Ally that he isn’t needed.
Bringing in Souness as well; They might as well write “goodbye” on Ally’s forehead.
Cue outrage from Sevco re the HMRC deal with Hearts FC
My ears are bleeding listening to SSB
The panel are really missing the ‘old firm’ games as are most Celtic fans etc etc
How do these muppets get a gig?
Absolutely beggars belief
lurchingfrompillartopost says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:23
2. Scotland encourages entrepreneurs by having
a) no rigorous transparency in company registration
b) relaxed scritiny over company formation requirements
c) no “fit and proper person” assessment
————————————————————————————-
I personally do not agree that Independence would guarantee the slightest changes in any of the things listed.
But the ones above are interesting as it appears that weak legislation has reduced Companies House to basically a post office. It receives paperwork from companies, as required under legislation, but even if incomplete/incomprehensible does nothing to get the info – apparently it isn’t their job – they solely register the forms as received. That obviously has an enormous dilution on the scrutiny of company formation.
Tbh I think we might as well just junk the whole concept of a “fit and proper person” assessment because it isn’t carried out in the vast majority of cases or is just circumvented by a director simply giving a false DoB or the owner hiding behind layers of companies and trusts. And we all know how the mystery Rangers investors got the Thumbs Up from the SFA – I reckon that will come back to bite in due course.
I saw this and I couldn’t resist!
I don’t care how many TD’s I get for this it’ll be worth it.
Please feel free to answer the questions – even as you see fit.
From CBBC
Quiz: Bad-gers
Question 1
Where do bad-gers live?
A: In caves
B: In setts
C: In bushes
D: Ibrox
Answer _________
Question 2
What are bad-ger families called?
A: Flocks
B: Herds
C: Clans
D: Mobs
Answer _________
Question 3
How long do bad-gers live, on average?
A: 15 years
B: 2 years
C: 50 years
D: 140 years
Answer _________
Question 4
What is the bad-ger’s main predator?
A: Crocodiles
B: Wolves
C: Humans
D: SFA
Answer _________
Question 5
What are baby bad-gers called?
A: Kittens
B: Cubs
C: Calves
D: A shame
Answer _________
Back on planet SSB the SPL will turn into the league of Ireland ffs
Still churning out the same old drivel
I’ve had to switch off before this ipad gets damaged!
abcott says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 18:39
Walter would never be involved in Ally’s dismisal well off the mark their I think. Souness, maybe but I doubt things would happen as you suggest. The supporters will see off Ally first.
Maybe Ally will be left managing the colts.
bill1903 says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 19:03
0 0 Rate This
Back on planet SSB the SPL will turn into the league of Ireland ffs
Still churning out the same old drivel
I’ve had to switch off before this ipad gets damaged!
———————————————————————————————————————-
This league of Ireland scenario came from a source that the pundit on SSB believed as gospel.
The source oh sorry……………………………. It was Walter Smith.
“angus1983 says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 16:43
20 0 Rate This
Mr Charles, in the Daily Mail article posted by Wobbly above:
‘Scottish football effectively is Rangers and Celtic. I mean, there are many other clubs but everyone has to acknowledge that that’s a fact.
‘Scottish football needs Rangers back at the top and Rangers being a vital part of European football. That’s where we’re trying to get them.
‘The Old Firm is the world’s biggest derby. That’s what world football wants, what broadcasters and sponsors wants, to see those games again. God willing we’ ll see that in the years ahead.
——
Gasp. Where to start …?
Can this man not open his mouth without a stream of fetid nonsense cascading out of it? Can he, maybe, manage just one sentence that is not composed of tripe?”
——— No and No.
That’s why I look forward to reading/hearing his ‘thoughts’. His every word appeals to my sense of humour – I suggested last week that this site should create a reference page for ready access to his comments.
There is a sinister side to the poor soul’s public persona. I believe he arrived in Glasgow, attracted by pallbearers to the smell of the corpse; persuaded that he was on to a good thing. A troll through Companies House records suggests that he has ‘history’.
The Sandy Jardine announcement of the big birthday celebrations on the day after Celtic were expected to be humiliated by Barcelona backfired spectacularly. Advisers (the financial variety as opposed to the Broxi types) have since fed him his Old Firm line. The line that suggests that ‘Rangers’ have been part of the Celtic success story.
Poor Charlie – you have been used as a front for some financial shenanigans and misused by the corrupt at Ibrox. If I were a Yorkshireman, I would be ashamed of you.
I am not from Yorkshire; I don’t support Rangers – keep up the good work.
bill1903 says: at 18:40
My ears are bleeding listening to SSB
The panel are really missing the ‘old firm’ games as are most Celtic fans etc etc
______________
Short memories these pilgrims
Police Costs: – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14251800
Domestic Violence: – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14978841
Streets are safer – Homes are safer – Pubs are safer – Taxpayer saves money – aka Civilisation
jabbers `Armageddon`
go figure
King was always the paymaster behind all of this ,he even bought a club in South Africa for one Rand which was the catalyst for the Whyte/Green project and this has been followed through,the Ticketus Laundry was another part of the plan to finance the plan in its infancy and this cash was sacrificial ,hence it was allowed to go down the laundry plughole,there are no more players in this game ,they are all out there now, whether it was the financial minder from Bearsden ,or should that be Bears-den who wrote the cheques for Charley ,right through to King ,the sting has been just about completed ,or has it,would you be sure of Whytey and Green to go quietly ,hmmm,another thing ,there is no Murray in this,he is in enough bother of his own making we will be lucky to see him out and about for the next few years,the real question is how does King plan to go forward,leave things as they are and work his way up through the leagues without any help from the corrupted gaurdians of Scottish football, convice the grizzly bears to become nice likeable bears I would imagine so and buy into the new share issue that King will underwrite,you begin to wonder if they really wanted the interfearance of our corrupt governors as they probably intended to be dropped into Div 1 but with their help? fell right through the floor into the basement ,thanks Campbell,no the will be told to go and take their interest in the new club and stick it where the sun dont shine,interesting times ahead.
Well done Heart of Midlothian Revenue and Customs – you guys are just awesome 🙂
abcott says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 19:06
Maybe Ally will be left managing the colts.
———————————————————————————————————
Anagram of Alastair Mcoist = I’m a colts star(IA)
Has the first minister spoken publicly about his beloved team yet? Is there no political intervention to save the jambos? Surely Hearts are as every bit a fabric of our society as any other team?
CG’s road show! https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7241D12A18C19C59!387&app=PowerPoint
paulsatim says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 20:05
CG’s road show! https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7241D12A18C19C59!387&app=PowerPoint
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It must be said, “their Powerpoints are guff!”
Institutions are never going to fall for that load of twaddle
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 18:11
7
0
Rate This
ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 17:12
scottc says on David Murray:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 15:41
That’s why he tried to buy Ayr United first but was rebuffed by that board.
————————————————————————————————-
Does anyone know what the Ayr Utd Board knew that made them reject him?
=======================================================================
His father?
=============================
Ouch!
To say I was incensed ,as I read the posts on here describing the half-time carry-on at Ibrox at the week-end, would be a huge understatement.
I calmed down enough today to fire off a letter to Major-General Eeles, GOC Scotland, which I copied to Rear-Admiral Hockley, Flag Officer Scotland, N England and Northern Ireland, and to Major-General Davis, CBE RM, Commandant General Royal Marines.
In the letter I expressed my dismay, which I hope he shares, that army and navy personnel should have been allowed to indulge in an undisciplined travesty of a ‘Remembrance’ parade, which was rather more an unashamedly sectarian and partisan celebration of Orangeism.
I expressed the view that their display was less than respectul to the memory of those men and women who gave their lives for us ALL and not for one particular group in society or one particular ideology; and suggested that the officer who authorised the military presence should be asked to apologise to the rest of Scotland.
paulsatim says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 20:05
What an absolute crock! No-one in their right mind would fall for that. They must think The Rangers supporters are as thick as sh………………..oh wait!
ScottC and Humble Pie
PP presentations are poor, and lots of apples v oranges, I mean comparing SFL 3 v NFL!!!
Well done JC.
I first raised this on the board on Saturday evening and was amazed, surprised but pleased to get over 250 TU’s. Many folk obviously shared my displeasure. The responses which you receive should be interesting.
paulsatim says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 20:05
0 0 Rate This
CG’s road show! https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=7241D12A18C19C59!387&app=PowerPoint
———-
Is this a spoof?
Where are the cash flow numbers?
Capex £9m (not property or playing squad) – wtf is that?
paulsatim says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 20:05
CG’s road show! https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx? sid=7241D12A18C19C59!387&app=PowerPoint
I don’t understand the half of that, so will need further info before deciding whether or not to convert my £10k pledge into a firm investment.
On page 18, I notice that they plan on buying an Edminston House. What and where is this?
Also, up to £2M to be invested in Security. That will keep Charlie safe for a while, but what about the others?
Page 12 mentions the ‘colt teams’ nonsense. Didn’t take long for that to be included, or did Charlie already know about it? If so, how many other SFL club Chief Executives were in the know prior to Longmuir (Ogilvie’s heir apparent, if ever there was one) releasing the good news?
A couple of points which I noticed from their PP (Pish poor) presentation.
I notice that they intend to list The Company, in which folk will buy shares, as a PLC, anything significant in that?
How can they have a PP ready for presentation today in which it makes reference to Their Colts possibly playing in a lower division when Longmuir only announced that intention yesterday. Obviously they are working together. I also notice no mention of M Ahmed as a director. As Paul McConville suggested yesterday has he resigned?
No doubt our own in house experts will draw to our attention the other shortcomings .
Surely that is a fake?
So how long has Charles been aware of the restructure proposals, when it was only announced yesterday?
Why is it stated that this information is for UK only, I thought the yanks were falling over themselves to buy shares.
Though a lay person, even I would be put off by a statement that says
“No reliance may be placed, for any purposes whatsoever, on the information contained in this presentation…..”
Just had a look at Chuckles’ PowerPoint presentation. If this is the basis for his pitch to the ’20 pension fund managers’ and the backbone of his ‘investors roadshow’, he wil get laughed out of town! I recall his boast that he has floated around 30 companies on various exchanges, including AIM. No wonder they bombed.
Who is the Nomad (Nominated Adviser) to this debacle?
Unless, of course, his target demographic is an easily deluded, willing to part with £500, cross-section of choice half-wits.
SouthernExile says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 20:31
Capex is capital expeniture.
So proud I learned something from the blog 🙂
ClashCityRockers says:
Tuesday, November 13, 2012 at 19:51
__________________________________
I know it’s the Herald, but they do give a quote.
Hope the link works..
But if not, here is the quote:
A Government spokesman said: “The Scottish Government stands ready to assist in any way it can, including making contact with HMRC if necessary.”It is in everyone’s interests to find a solution which ensures Hearts can continue in business while also meeting their obligations to the tax authorities.”
SouthernExile, Gorbalsdoodledandy
I’m just the messenger, my first thoughts were spoof!!!
Maybe some of you have experienced this scenario.
You agree to see some company marketing guy out of sympathy cause he/she is at least persistent.
Then comes the heartbreak moment as they reach for the laptop and the dreaded PPP.
You immediately text someone to come and rescue you on any pretext possible.
Chuckles get used to that feeling of rejection.
If my apprentice graduate had produced that guff they would be down the road.
Rangers Tax-Case @rangerstaxcase
Sevco investment slide deck: pension fund managers across the land will be rushing to get a piece of the action. lolz! 🙂
I’m no expert but just read Chuckles brochure.No predictions.no planning,no nothing.Anyone who buys shares based on this deserves what they get