Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

ByTrisidium

Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove

At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.

To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.

The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.

Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.

2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.

On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.

St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.

By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.

It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.

Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.

Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.

In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.

So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.

Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.

Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.

European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.

Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.

Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.

It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.

Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.

By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.

Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.

Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.

So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’

The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.

Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.

Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.

We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.

It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.

Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,744 Comments so far

iamacantPosted on10:45 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:29

Seems normal to me. Congrats to Celtic for keeping young home grown talent in the country (unlike us who flog everyone to Fulham :-))

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jean7brodiePosted on10:47 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Somebody please help. I can’t see an end to this iniquitous thing.

* iniquitous
wicked, base, criminal, evil, vicious, infamous, immoral, unjust, atrocious, sinful, heinous, reprehensible, abominable, nefarious, accursed, unrighteous.

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paulsatimPosted on10:53 pm - Nov 15, 2012


auchinstarry says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 18:26

I emailed them after the programme last night re Graham. still awaiting response.

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jonnyodPosted on10:54 pm - Nov 15, 2012


john clarke
many thanks

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paulsatimPosted on10:56 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:29

OK, who’s the thumb down zombie? We demand to know!!

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paulsatimPosted on11:02 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Change that to zombies!

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campsiejoePosted on11:04 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim @ 22:56

Gave you a TD just for the hell of it 🙂

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Reilly1926Posted on11:04 pm - Nov 15, 2012


easyJambo says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:24

Hearts have made an odd (and perhaps concerning) announcement on the official site that they will not be accepting debit or credit card payments for share purchases from tomorrow. There is no explanation why. Ticket sales via card seems to be ok for the moment.

It could be that they are unhappy with the card fees being requested by the merchant. Alternatively, it could be that Hearts are having trouble obtaining insurace cover for their (higher value?) card transactions and that the merchart is withholding more funds than the standard fees. I seem to recall that was one of the reasons for Globespan going into administration.

Not good news either way, as it is likely to deter some people from making share purchases if they can’t use cards.

====================

Credit Card payments unlike Debit Cards are covered by an indemnity insuring that if the business goes into administration/liquidation they will cover the purchase. They won’t take a chance like that with a company in Hearts’ precarious position.

Hope all goes well easyJambo.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on11:11 pm - Nov 15, 2012


campsiejoe says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:04
0 0 Rate This
paulsatim @ 22:56

Gave you a TD just for the hell of it

——————————————

so did I – thought i’d have a sly kick while you were down…..it’s the timmy way!

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paulsatimPosted on11:11 pm - Nov 15, 2012


broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 21:51
7 2 Rate This

It was a different time back then, I wonder how Celtic fans would have reacted if there had been a site (fanzine?) called CTC.
=============

Why would there have been a Celtic Tax case site/fanzine/forum??

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paulsatimPosted on11:14 pm - Nov 15, 2012


campsiejoe says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:04

Oh, you’ve set off my heart again!! http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif?m=1129645325g

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on11:15 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:11

Why would there have been a Celtic Tax case site/fanzine/forum??

=================================================

Because the KKW Klan used to lie about the attendances and they had a cash gate for themselves – they never paid tax on that

they used to get 100,000 at every game but claimed there was only 14 people and 8 priests who got in for free

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campsiejoePosted on11:17 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim @ 23:14

Very much doubt it
Strong as an ox you are 🙂

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paulsatimPosted on11:19 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:15

True! Now how do you work the smilie thingmabobs?

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campsiejoePosted on11:22 pm - Nov 15, 2012


paulsatim @ 23:19

Smilie face is a : followed by a ) like this 🙂

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paulsatimPosted on11:28 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Thanks CJ ! 🙂

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paulsatimPosted on11:30 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Now up to 11 TDs, a lot of kicking while I’m down 🙁

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on11:34 pm - Nov 15, 2012


mrgreenwhytebrown says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:13
 2 0 Rate This
Equity for Clowns? Just had a flashback :-
http://www.bluenose.co.uk/

—————————————————

OT but there was one for bluenose.com – a Canadian firm. I think they are now bluenoseaccounting.com and provide –
Business Planning and Forecasting
Bookkeeping
Personal and Corporate Taxation
Accounting
Auditing

As has been said many times, “You couldn’t make it up”.

I think the name, in this case, comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluenose

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AlthetimPosted on11:37 pm - Nov 15, 2012


FYI – all those who have asked why there would have been a Celtic Tax Case blog, take a look at

http://celtictaxcase.wordpress.com/

For all those asking why such a site should exist? Read it – self explanitory.

Born of desparation and ignorance, much the same as T’Rangers.

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mrgreenwhytebrownPosted on11:41 pm - Nov 15, 2012


mrgreenwhytebrown says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:13
2 0 Rate This
Equity for Clowns? Just had a flashback :-
http://www.bluenose.co.uk/

—————————————————

OT but there was one for bluenose.com – a Canadian firm. I think they are now bluenoseaccounting.com and provide –
Business Planning and Forecasting
Bookkeeping
Personal and Corporate Taxation
Accounting
Auditing

As has been said many times, “You couldn’t make it up”.

I think the name, in this case, comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluenose

______________________________________________________________________

I think Charlie does have ‘schooner'(ish) characteristics..

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mrgreenwhytebrownPosted on11:53 pm - Nov 15, 2012


Althetim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:37
4 0 Rate This

FYI – all those who have asked why there would have been a Celtic Tax Case blog, take a look at

http://celtictaxcase.wordpress.com/

For all those asking why such a site should exist? Read it – self explanitory.

Born of desparation and ignorance, much the same as T’Rangers.
__________________________________________________________________________

http://celtictaxcase.wordpress.com/
£134m? Why are the mhedia trying to scare us?
Posted on April 6, 2012

“I would also NOT rule out the chance of Rangers playing European football next year but at the moment the scenario would seem unlikely rather than impossible.”

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vforvernacularPosted on12:09 am - Nov 16, 2012


A few oddities that have been bugging me for a while because they seem to have almost fallen off the radar:

– When the CVA was being proposed Green stated in an interview part or all of the £5.5m offered was a loan that the club would pay back. I’m sure there was even mention of repayment rate etc. Did I imagine this as I’ve seen little mention of it or inclusion on the back of the fag packets I’ve seen?

– When the CVA was proposed I seem to remember that Green also told us that on failure of the CVA then the £5.5m agreement dropped to somewhere about £3m mark. Anyone else recall this? If so why are all references to the purchase price in the MSM and indeed often on here still £5.5m figure?

– One of the conditions of the sale was the transfer of playing assets. Not all players transfered – did this mean Green payed even less for the club than originally agreed?

– Rangers offered £1m for Templeton and McGowan which Hearts refused. Then a later deal was accepted for Templeton and the fee was undisclosed. Yet I’ve seen quite a few people talk about training compensation due for Templeton as if he was a free agent. He wasn’t. Am I missing something? If I’m not then fag packet figures need to be adjusted further.

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gazpopsPosted on12:12 am - Nov 16, 2012


Althetim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:37

See, I WANT it to be a spoof blog but it is almost more reassuring to know that it is genuine – the actual utterings of an actual human brain clickety clacking on some keys. I change my mind – Sevco must be saved! This stuff cannot be lost to sociologists.

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paulsatimPosted on12:19 am - Nov 16, 2012


vforvernacular says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 00:09

Mr Arbuckle?

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vforvernacularPosted on12:21 am - Nov 16, 2012


Althetim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:37
7 0 Rate This
FYI – all those who have asked why there would have been a Celtic Tax Case blog, take a look at

http://celtictaxcase.wordpress.com/

For all those asking why such a site should exist? Read it – self explanitory.

Born of desparation and ignorance, much the same as T’Rangers.

—————————————————————————————

I await WordPress having it on their splash page as a focused blog. Indeed it serves as a quite remarkable example of just how simple wordpress is to use and proves that even the most febrile mind can set up a blog.

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iamacantPosted on12:29 am - Nov 16, 2012


I’m down here on holiday in Englandshire but having bought all the national newspapers and read them extensively, there is absolutely no mention of TRFC at all. I’m currentlystaying in Mount Pleasant area of London but have yet to hear or read of the TRFC presentation to any prospective investors.

Charlie, you speaking to the mirror in the morning?

(The mirror tells lies :-))

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mrgreenwhytebrownPosted on12:30 am - Nov 16, 2012


This really is giggle. Fair play.
The comments at the end are worth a read also:-

http://celtictaxcase.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/celtic-chinamen-and-catholics-part-1-establishing-the-link/

View Comment

forweonlyknowPosted on12:32 am - Nov 16, 2012


Althetim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:37

—————————-

Simple!? Simple?! There are no such things as mistakes ….. ;

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nickmcguinnessPosted on12:40 am - Nov 16, 2012


Tommy says at 21:59:

The poor man was a Rangers fan, killed while playing football. He had been a visitor to Ibrox in the recent past with his son.
If the club and their fans wish to pay tribute to him, then that’s fine by me.
May his soul Rest In Peace. Amen.

View Comment

stevensanphPosted on12:46 am - Nov 16, 2012


vforvernacular says:

-( When the CVA was being proposed Green stated in an interview part or all of the £5.5m offered was a loan that the club would pay back. I’m sure there was even mention of repayment rate etc. Did I imagine this as I’ve seen little mention of it or inclusion on the back of the fag packets I’ve seen?)

The CVA was an offer of 8.5m and was indeed a loan. The 5.5m purchase of assets was in a confidential agreement with D&P, which, to my knowledge, has not seen the light of day.

– (When the CVA was proposed I seem to remember that Green also told us that on failure of the CVA then the £5.5m agreement dropped to somewhere about £3m mark. Anyone else recall this? If so why are all references to the purchase price in the MSM and indeed often on here still £5.5m figure?)

Your correct. It dropped from 8.5m CVA to 5.5m asset purchase

– One of the conditions of the sale was the transfer of playing assets. Not all players transfered – did this mean Green payed even less for the club than originally agreed?

According to the reports given by D&P, Sevco paid 5.5m for all the assets, although we don’t know what else was in the sale agreement as it is still not public.

– (Rangers offered £1m for Templeton and McGowan which Hearts refused. Then a later deal was accepted for Templeton and the fee was undisclosed. Yet I’ve seen quite a few people talk about training compensation due for Templeton as if he was a free agent. He wasn’t. Am I missing something? If I’m not then fag packet figures need to be adjusted further.)

Rangers will owe an undisclosed fee. Either Hearts gave Rangers terms or they have already paid this. He was not a free agent. At a guess the fee was probably around 600 – 750k. What we do know is that Rangers still owe Hearts 800k for Wallace, with part due in January and the rest due next summer.

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Billy BoycePosted on12:47 am - Nov 16, 2012


If we are commenting on spoof blogs then none come better than Blotto’s. In fact, having read it, I’m not so sure it isn’t from the pen of the great man himself.

http://swivel-eyeddavieleggat.blogsp…beware_15.html

Thursday, 15 November 2012Enemies of Rangers Beware

I thought long and hard about starting this blog, but after repeated requests from dozens of good pals in the old inky trade on both sides of Hadrian’s Wall, I decided to take the plunge.

I can’t count how many good, honest, decent, hard-working journalists have asked me to step into the breach to counter the anti-Rangers bile spewed by Philmacgoillabhain, Brian Patrick McNally and the prancing poltroon Alex Thomson.

These enemies of Rangers must be met head-on whenever they spew their Rangers-hating propaganda, and auld Swivel-Eyed Davie Leggit is just the man to do it.

As my auld Scots Presbyterian Granny used to say to me – “Get yer finger oot yer nose ya wee bastard afore it caves in!”

Reluctantly, I have agreed to take my place in the vanguard of the movement to tackle Rangers’ enemies.

No more will Rangers allow their enemies to blacken their name, or ruin the share issue which Charles Green needs to make Rangers great again.

Let me go on record now as saying that while I wouldn’t trust Green as far as I could throw him, he clearly has Rangers’ best interests at heart and there’s no way Sir Walter would have come on board if that wasn’t the case.

I won’t stand by and watch the new Gallant Pioneers thwarted as they set out on their romantic journey that will take the grand old club back to where they belong at the top of the discredited and rabidly anti-Rangers SPL.

Philmacgoillabhain, Brian Patrick McNally and the prancing poltroon Thomson may be the most obvious members of the anti-Rangers brigade, but let’s not forget the most dangerous of all – Odious Creep.

So log on to Swivel-Eyed Davie Leggat over the coming days and weeks, where I will be doing everything in my power to drink myself into oblivion while facing the enemies of Rangers head-on.

An apocalyptic showdown is looming. Armageddon with bells on, you might say. You heard it here first.

….AND
……..

MORE TO COME on Rangers’ enemy….

WITHIN!……..

AND FINALLY…..

REVEALED HERE.

Tomorrow.

On this site.

Don’t miss it.

RANGERS’ ENEMY WITHIN!

Here.

On this site.

Tomorrow.

View Comment

stevensanphPosted on12:53 am - Nov 16, 2012


Danish Pastry says:

So in the short interregnum between rumours, congratulations to St Johnstone with their first Scotland cap in eight decades!

Thanks Danish… its been a long time coming. Many players in the last 2 decades have gone onto international football with Scotland literally weeks after leaving Saints (John O’Neil, Paul Hartley, Calum Davidson), but none have actually been picked while still at Perth!

Funnily enough, its taken possibly the worst Saints manager in the last 20 years (Billy Stark – please god don’t let him get the Scotland job) cap a Saintee!!

View Comment

vforvernacularPosted on12:55 am - Nov 16, 2012


stevensanph says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 00:46

Thanks Stevensanph. I obviously didn’t recall some of the details as well as I thought I did. I appreciate the response.

View Comment

bogsdolloxPosted on12:57 am - Nov 16, 2012


johnboy5088 says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 00:40

Tommy says at 21:59:

The poor man was a Rangers fan, killed while playing football. He had been a visitor to Ibrox in the recent past with his son.
If the club and their fans wish to pay tribute to him, then that’s fine by me.
May his soul Rest In Peace. Amen.
==============================================================

Agreed.

Whether TRFC have a minutes silence for him is entirely their business. It demeans this blog for posters to start making an issue of it. A bit of respect would be better.

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forweonlyknowPosted on1:11 am - Nov 16, 2012


33% of hee-haw is……………………..??

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broadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on1:42 am - Nov 16, 2012


paulsatim says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 23:11

Why would there have been a Celtic Tax case site/fanzine/forum??

===========================================================

Apologies for the shoddy phrasing. I wasn’t suggesting any malfeasance on the part of Celtic.
I was wondering if the green reaction would be different from the blue reaction and why.

Using ‘CTC’ was shorthand for ‘if we we had been faced with a similar set of circumstances’.

I appreciate that there are significant differences in both the nature of the events, people involved and the time (era?) in which both events occurred.

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Humble PiePosted on2:33 am - Nov 16, 2012


broadswordcallingdannybhoy says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 01:42

Can I humbly refer you to my post of one month ago where I ask the same question.

http://scottishfootballmonitor.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/naming-the-rose/comment-page-18/#comment-17309

View Comment

stunneyPosted on2:58 am - Nov 16, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/vladimir-romanov-is-urged-to-make-dignified-exit-1-2640159

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stunneyPosted on3:00 am - Nov 16, 2012


http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/changing-room-chat-german-out-to-teach-gers-a-lesson-1-2640148

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iniquitousivPosted on3:17 am - Nov 16, 2012


Jean7brodie @ 22:47

“Somebody please help. I can’t see an end to this iniquitous thing.”

Excuse me? What have I ever done to offend you?

IniquitousIV

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selfassessorPosted on5:30 am - Nov 16, 2012


I saw this advert at the bottom of the RM site when reading the shocking comments about trying to expose RTC. I’m sure the irony would be lost on the morons who post on that bile spewing forum.

Paying Enough Tax?
http://www.gov.uk/sortmytax
Declare The Right Amount Of Income Or Risk Being Caught By HMRC.

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essexbeancounterPosted on8:06 am - Nov 16, 2012


iamacant says:

Friday, November 16, 2012 at 00:29

I’m down here on holiday in Englandshire but having bought all the national newspapers and read them extensively, there is absolutely no mention of TRFC at all. I’m currentlystaying in Mount Pleasant area of London but have yet to hear or read of the TRFC presentation to any prospective investors.

Charlie, you speaking to the mirror in the morning?

(The mirror tells lies )
======================================================================

iamacant…I trust the natives are friendly towards you and can assure you that absolutely nothing has been printed about RFC(IL) or TRFC in any shape or form since Valentine’s Day last…or am I missing something also?

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ianagainPosted on8:25 am - Nov 16, 2012


Would it not be a suitable use for this site that when the redacted version of the FTT decision comes out we all take 10-120 pages each and “un – redact” it. Should be easy enough – or am I bad?

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bl00teredPosted on8:41 am - Nov 16, 2012


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, November 15, 2012 at 22:16

funnily enough, this has been on my mind today.

on one hand, i think it is perfectly acceptable and even quite moving that the club should observe a minutes silence for Capt Barrie.

He was a Glaswegian, a rangers fan, and poignantly he was killed whilst playing a kick about game of football with locals.

——————-
I thought East Stirlingshire were hosts to Ally et al this weekend. Surely it’s East Stirling’s call on pre match activities?

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ianagainPosted on8:47 am - Nov 16, 2012


10 to 12 pages I mean

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tomtomPosted on9:04 am - Nov 16, 2012


If Rangers where honouring this soldier because of a long standing tradition then it would be a fine and upstanding gesture on their part.

However let’s not kid ourselves here. This is a “sieze the moment” decision, playing on their feel good factor after the Remembrance Day debacle.

Will enquiries now be made about every future serviceman/woman’s death to establish their allegiances? Of course not. It is a cynical and (another) disgraceful attempt to place themselves at the head of the “loyal to Britain and Britishness” club.

Will future (and unfortunately there will be) grieving parents/children/wives of service personnel killed on active service be asking “why not my son/daughter? Why have they not been honoured?” Probably, because this is a short term action designed to keep the bears on the message. The great defenders of the British way of life cannot go under, buy you shares now!!

Like everything that comes out of this club at the moment it is designed to sell shares.

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angus1983Posted on9:27 am - Nov 16, 2012


Can I get the 2000th comment, please?

Thanks

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tomtomPosted on9:37 am - Nov 16, 2012


angus1983 says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 09:27

Can I get the 2000th comment, please?

Thanks

======================

Unfortunately you have let yourself down by not actually commenting 😀

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Danish PastryPosted on9:54 am - Nov 16, 2012


Nice wee read about football clubs and their conflicted history. This scenario could have played out in Glasgow if things had been slightly different:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2233049/AFC-Wimbledon-right-trophies–MK-Dons.html

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tommythehatPosted on10:09 am - Nov 16, 2012


tomtomaswell says:

Friday, November 16, 2012 at 09:04
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Yep, cynical as you like, sir. It tells you something when the first port of call for Charlie’s Roadshow is Northern Ireland, so nothing pretty much surprises me anymore – nothing whatsoever. Charlie and His Lying Machine?? If it were only restricted to fantasy, well it would be one thing but it’s not – The constant gurge of excrement that flows from Charlie’s mouth really is endless. Lies, plenty of them then theres the complete and utter nonsense – too ridiculous to be simply called a ‘lie’ – all the rabble-rousing, dog-whistling and it’s all pretty much gone unchecked.

The SFA have amazingly managed to have themselves compromised by this idiot – the MSM are too far gone in this saga to suddenly turn about and start actually doing something like ‘journalism’ now and even when the bulldozers are knocking bits of the old Ibrox down, be rest assured Keith, Jim and and various others will still be in denial – when Sevco goes to the wall, the most satisfying thing for me will be to see afore-mentioned ‘journo’s’ and their ‘publications’ go too. May the lot of them rot in hell. The DR / Sevco Journal in particular.

Charlie is desperate. Why?

Has he now realised the cut-price ST’s were the only reason Ibrox is experiencing good attendance?? The plan was always to have his team in the SPL, there is no profit scope otherwise – he and his club – and a lot of the MSM – have been busy telling the world ‘we’ relegated them. (‘we’ being all the Scottish league clubs – expect Kilmarnock, of course)

What happens when his next plan at league reconstruction (Scam MKII) falls on it’s arse??

Because if he or anyone else really thinks the Scottish football community is going to be doing him or his team any favours (in other words, accepting blatant cheating) then he is even more deluded than I imagined.

There will be no quick-fix to have Sevco in the top league. Such chicanery has been shown unnaceptable to the Scottish football public.

The 5-way agreement thing?? Now. Wait a minute here…this is not government official secrets stuff or a corporate entity keeping things from the public – as to protect something- like the secret recipe for Cola (for example..) This is a national football association ffs!! On what planet do these people think they can pull such stunts and tell us, yes US, WE, the ££ paying fans, that there are matters, such as this, we cannot be privvy to – no Mr Regan et-al. It is us that ensure your org’s even exist.

There has to be a bigger deal made of this – all of the communicado in relation to Sevco and the authorities in relation to ‘5-way deals’ and whatever else HAS to be put in the public domain.

If it is not. Then it’s high time Scotland matches were boycotted by all concerned. That is all it takes to bring the house down, and with Scotland not going anywhere fast – now is an opportunistic time.

RE the ‘outing’ of RTC?? It would be interesting to get some idea of complaints made to ‘Strathclydes Finest’ regarding sites such as RM, FF etc and exactly what action has ever been taken. ‘Strathclydes Finest’ though??, gotta love the allusion to ‘finest’ – but finest what exactly??

View Comment

manandboyPosted on10:10 am - Nov 16, 2012


tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 09:04
1 0 i
Rate This
If Rangers where honouring this soldier because of a long standing tradition then it would be a fine and upstanding gesture on their part.

However let’s not kid ourselves here. This is a “sieze the moment” decision, playing on their feel good factor after the Remembrance Day debacle.
___________________________________________________________________________________

British troops are supported by British taxes.

Rangers FC(IL) decided to withdraw their support for the troops by withholding due tax and spending the money on themselves.

They didn’t support Capt. Barrie when he needed it.

Now they plan to make a show of honouring him.

Rangers FC(IL) and now New Club Rangers, again reveal themselves to be an absolute disgrace.

They should be, but won’t be, thoroughly ashamed of not paying their taxes.

Instead, they laugh, and celebrate, and shout it aloud – “We are debt free!”

This country owes a debt to Capt. Barrie.

Rangers excepted of course – they don’t pay their debts.

To Capt. Barrie and to his Wife & Family – Thank you.

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redetinPosted on10:25 am - Nov 16, 2012


Stuart,

Your post has attracted over 2000 comments, some O/T of course as is our tradition. I think TSFM merits a good shout on “Off the Ball” tomorrow. Looking forward to more from you in future.

And can you play a record for me? I think Michael Marra’s “Scribbled down drunk and posted sober” would hit the right spot for a blogger.

Regards,
Jimmy

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Parson St. BhoyPosted on10:28 am - Nov 16, 2012


Scotland on Sunday poll

Friday, 16 November 2012
Is Scottish football missing Rangers in the SPL?

Yes
762 (24%)

No
2353 (76%)
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
So much for all the fuds in the MSM. It looks like the only ones who miss the presence of the Ibrokes tax dodgers are their supporters, lamb munchers and associated soup takers in the media. The ones who relied on the crumbs from their master’s table for their coin. The longer they remain out of the top flight of Scottish football and consequently Europe the more of an irrelevance they will become.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:32 am - Nov 16, 2012


Capt. Barrie RIP – my thoughts are with his family at this very sad time
———————————————————————————————

How Rangers wish to commemorate a soldier’s passing is up to them just as it would be up to Celtic or any other Scottish team should the terrible circumstances be repeated for one of their fans.

I really think we should stand-back from becoming publicly involved in what we perceive to be the right and wrong of any decision taken. And I believe it is totally wrong for posters to discuss these matters while close family grieve and mourn their loss and have yet to bury the man.

Surely we are above turning this into a point-scoring ‘political’ football and hopefully not for the sake of a semi-hidden agenda. Let’s mourn the loss of another human being who is sadly yet another casualty of war and direct our energies to ending conflict and we should never lose sight of how big a part reconciliation plays in that process which can be achieved at an individual level with a lot of hard work and courage.

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Madbhoy24941Posted on10:41 am - Nov 16, 2012


While I agree Rangers are using the sad death of a soldier to play the loyal card and pander to the lowest common denominator, I feel we should not jump on that and also use this incident to further our argument (that argument being that Rangers are currently playing the loyal card in order to extract as much money as possible while also painting themselves in a good light).

It really annoys me when I see some of the things they do but using someone’s death to make my own point heard does not sit well on my shoulders.

If we look at it another way, maybe someone at Rangers realises that the carnival show from last weekend was not dignified and this is them trying to make up for it in some small way.

As my mum used to say, “you be the bigger man”.

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bangordubPosted on10:47 am - Nov 16, 2012


Celtic AGM under way,

Celtic Football Club ‏@celticfc
IB ‘Then we had the complete disassembly of Rangers. That brought a whole set of new challenges.

Celtic Football Club ‏@celticfc
IB: Had to work out what our response would be, where to respond and if to respond.

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jonnyodPosted on10:50 am - Nov 16, 2012


Parson St Bhoy
I think your post will come as no surprise to many of the posters on here .
One of the biggest contributors of the downfall of Ragers were the compliant MSM who were sitting at Minties table eager to obey his next command for the meagre ration of scraps thrown from his table .In their blind ,they actually perpetuated the demise of the entity they wished to remain at the top of of game .
As the poll refers to Rangers ,why the need to add ,in the SPL ,I think ,Is Scottish football missing Rangers would have sufficed .
Then again the MSM still feel the need to perpetuate the illusion ,wonder who’s throwing their meagre scraps now .

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bangordubPosted on10:50 am - Nov 16, 2012


And….
Celtic Football Club ‏@celticfc
IB: ‘The strategy we adopt of club is to maximise what we do on the park within constraints of conservative and prudent management.

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tomtomPosted on10:53 am - Nov 16, 2012


Ecobhoy,

I don’t believe this is point scoring, far from it. The tag line to this blog is “asking the questions the media wont ask” If the hijacking of sensitive situations by RFC, and the failure of the media in respect of this, isn’t worthy of our attention then what is?

The story here is not the death of a soldier but the attempt by a section of the community to use his death as some sort of badge.

Whilst his death is saddening it was not at the hands of an enemy combatant or as a result of enemy action. Is it ok because the perpetrator was an Afghan, albeit supposedly on the same side, who had a dispute going on. Would such a tribute have been considered if it had been another British soldier who had done this? If not then it is a racist gesture.

Do East Stirling not have a say in their desire to have a minute’s silence?

This has become a football story because of their involvment. Not discussing it would be condoning it.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:05 am - Nov 16, 2012


The same statement twice.Reads differently though,depending on who writes it.
Firstly Britney:

Graham Spiers ‏@GrahamSpiers

Peter Lawwell on Rangers’ SPL omission: “Clearly there is a short-term financial issue…financially we [Celtic] will suffer.”

What PL actually said was:

Celtic Football Club ‏@celticfc

PL: ‘Clearly short-term commercial issue. Financially we will suffer, but that was insignificant in doing the right thing.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:07 am - Nov 16, 2012


http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/be-careful-posting-forms-to-companies-house-they-might-get-lost-in-the-mail/

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ordinaryfanPosted on11:09 am - Nov 16, 2012


Isn’t it just amazing how the MSM attempt to use Chuckles constant lies and nonsense as a positive, “he just speaks his mind”, er…well he must have one tiny mind, “he is honest enough to say it as he sees it”, er…well than he is delusional because how he sees it is not reality, “he’s a straight talker”, er…yeah, straight from his rear end, “tough talking Yorkshireman”, er…dog whistling and playing the victim is actually cowardly, “you get what you see” er…a snake oil conman looking to steal millions??

View Comment

ordinaryfanPosted on11:13 am - Nov 16, 2012


Have financially struggling Alloa been paid yet by the Club Scottish football NEEDS?

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* (@enmac75)Posted on11:18 am - Nov 16, 2012


Finally got round to registering. Regular reader of RTC and TSFM etc etc…

Anyway, Charles green said recently that there would be 2 rounds of season ticket money for the financial year whilst he was telling the hacks during a recent dictation about being cash rich. But according to stv the other night, they are looking at a loss of £3.5m

My question is; why are alarm bells not ringing at 1000db across sevconia? And it’s not just the above. It’s just about every single word which has passed through greens lips since being chief zombie*

It really defies belief, that NO ONE, in the press is asking ANY questions about what green has said in relation to the share issue. Where are these road shows being held? How ar the being advertised? Who are they pitching too? Where are the details of what is being offered? As for bears, it seems there are no discerning voices amongst thier support. That is so sad. So sad they don’t want the truth, that they would rather take up the siege mentality of anyone asking pertinent questions of green, is an enemy of us. And when sevco go this time, it will be for good

*The term (zombie) is often figuratively applied to describe a hypnotized person bereft of consciousness and self-awareness, yet ambulant and able to respond to surrounding stimuli

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jonnyodPosted on11:31 am - Nov 16, 2012


Why all the cloak and dagger stuff regarding Imran ,I seem to remember a certain speech from Charlie saying that all you would get from him was the truth (stop laughing at the back ).I thought at the time it was a bold statement to make but a most welcome one .
Would that not lead people thinking you had something to hide

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ikiPosted on11:43 am - Nov 16, 2012


tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 10:53
Do East Stirling not have a say in their desire to have a minute’s silence?
=======
Yes, but the proposal would come from Ibrox and it puts East Stirling in a difficult position.
If they say ‘No’ then the word goes out …. and it certainly would ……. that our brave boys are being disrespected. Who are these people?

Catch 22 Major Major Major’s pledge of allegiance comes to mind.

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tomtomPosted on11:53 am - Nov 16, 2012


My final comment on Captain Barrie.

Two stories from the same newspaper, about the same subject.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/funeral-for-the-perfect-example-of-a-highland-1106054

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/body-of-brave-scots-soldier-walter-1438801

Now why does one get a lot more coverage than the other?

View Comment

ianagainPosted on11:53 am - Nov 16, 2012


http://www.londonstockexchange.com/statistics/new-issues-further-issues/new-issues.xls

Been playing with the listings on Aim since time began: (these 1995-2005)

Company Issue Price (p) Market Value (£m) Money Raised (£m)
Preston North End 400 3.6220 2.47
NOTTINGHAM FOREST 70 30.8770 2.60
MILLWALL HLDGS 0.7 17.0071 2.84
SHEFFIELD UNITED 10 8.9638 4.00
CHARLTON ATHLETIC 80 17.9460 6.00
BIRMINGHAM CITY 50 25.0000 7.50
LOFTUS ROAD 72 26.6580 10.39
TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR 25000 25.0002 15.00
CELTIC 30 61.7747 15.00

Chuckles 10m to 20 mil ? Not a ****ing hope man!.

Last successful leisure category launch – 2005.

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stmileyPosted on12:09 pm - Nov 16, 2012


I have noticed in the past week or so, a push from Newco PR department to maximise the number of followers on twitter and ‘likes’ of their facebook page. This drive can be directly linked, in my opinion, to the upcoming IPO to demonstrate the global appeal to potential investors.

It reminded me of a blog I read late last year after the official Rangers facebook page was launched. It makes for interesting reading.

http://digital-football.com/byleague/spl/should-brands-be-allowed-to-use-copyright-laws-to-boost-their-own-facebook-page/

View Comment

essexbeancounterPosted on12:13 pm - Nov 16, 2012


ianagain says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 11:53
1 0 i
Rate This
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/statistics/new-issues-further-issues/new-issues.xls

Been playing with the listings on Aim since time began: (these 1995-2005)

Company Issue Price (p) Market Value (£m) Money Raised (£m)
Preston North End 400 3.6220 2.47
NOTTINGHAM FOREST 70 30.8770 2.60
MILLWALL HLDGS 0.7 17.0071 2.84
SHEFFIELD UNITED 10 8.9638 4.00
CHARLTON ATHLETIC 80 17.9460 6.00
BIRMINGHAM CITY 50 25.0000 7.50
LOFTUS ROAD 72 26.6580 10.39
TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR 25000 25.0002 15.00
CELTIC 30 61.7747 15.00

Chuckles 10m to 20 mil ? Not a ****ing hope man!.

Last successful leisure category launch – 2005.

===========================================================================

ianagain…oodles of “respect” for extracting this from such a massive spreadsheet…you certainly must have had a mis-spent youth…!

It puts the verbiage spouted by Mr Green into perspective…and none of these in the midst of a triple-dip recession.

…repect again and again…!

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bogsdolloxPosted on12:14 pm - Nov 16, 2012


tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 11:53

My final comment on Captain Barrie.

Two stories from the same newspaper, about the same subject.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/funeral-for-the-perfect-example-of-a-highland-1106054

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/body-of-brave-scots-soldier-walter-1438801

Now why does one get a lot more coverage than the other?
=================================================================

One was an Officer the other wasn’t.

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manandboyPosted on12:15 pm - Nov 16, 2012


ecobhoy says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 10:32

Capt. Barrie RIP

“wrong for posters to discuss these matters while close family grieve and mourn their loss and have yet to bury the man.”
___________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks Ecobhoy for your thoughts of which the above commands my respect.

I will therefore say no more.

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willmacufreePosted on12:16 pm - Nov 16, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says: Friday, November 16, 2012 at 11:05

The same statement twice.Reads differently though,depending on who writes it.
Firstly Britney:
Graham Spiers ‏@GrahamSpiers
Peter Lawwell on Rangers’ SPL omission: “Clearly there is a short-term financial issue…financially we [Celtic] will suffer.”

What PL actually said was:
Celtic Football Club ‏@celticfc
PL: ‘Clearly short-term commercial issue. Financially we will suffer, but that was insignificant in doing the right thing.
========
Well done Torrejohnboy, and thank you for keeping us and the record straight. These people are the slowest of slow learners. When will they realise that half truths and lies no longer cut it.

View Comment

ecobhoyPosted on12:18 pm - Nov 16, 2012


tomtomaswell says:
Friday, November 16, 2012 at 10:53

@Ecobhoy,

I don’t believe this is point scoring, far from it. The tag line to this blog is “asking the questions the media wont ask” If the hijacking of sensitive situations by RFC, and the failure of the media in respect of this, isn’t worthy of our attention then what is?

The story here is not the death of a soldier but the attempt by a section of the community to use his death as some sort of badge.

Whilst his death is saddening it was not at the hands of an enemy combatant or as a result of enemy action. Is it ok because the perpetrator was an Afghan, albeit supposedly on the same side, who had a dispute going on. Would such a tribute have been considered if it had been another British soldier who had done this? If not then it is a racist gesture.

Do East Stirling not have a say in their desire to have a minute’s silence? This has become a football story because of their involvment. Not discussing it would be condoning it.
_______________________________________________________________________

Personally, I don’t believe that on this occasion there has been a failure of the media because I believe it is the right of any club to make whatever tribute it decides on within acceptable limits. I have no probs with flags at half-mast, black arm bands and a minute’s silence.

Tbh I have no interest in any section of the community who would attempt to use any death as a ‘badge’ as you put it and sometimes the best way to deal with such groups is to deny publicity. However, we should always remember that throughout history and in most lands such groups have existed and misused the memory of the dead and still do.

I just urge caution when attempting to impose differently-held views on other groups acting within the law – that is surely unacceptable especially when so many have given their lives for Democracy and Freedom of Opinon & Expression.

I have no idea what circumstances led to the death of the soldier and whether it was by enemy action – which includes an enemy wearing a ‘friendly’ uniform – or not and in a sense it matters not as it’s still a tragedy. Whether the same tribute would be afforded if it had been another British soldier would be a matter for the family and Rangers and, personally, I don’t see that it would.

As to racist gestures, you appear to have missed in my original post that I stated: ‘Let’s mourn the loss of another human being who is sadly yet another casualty of war and direct our energies to ending conflict. That includes all casualties, both civilian and military, and all wars: You also fail to mention my plea for reconciliation which might reduce future carnage.

As to East Stirling I have to say I don’t know the answer to that but I would have thought that any minute’s silence and wearing of arm bands would need to be cleared by the appropriate League Authorities which would necessitate input from East Stirling. It may be that the friends and relatives of previous deceased might wonder why their loved one wasn’t accorded a similar privilege – maybe they were and refused.

But I do think that Rangers might find an increasing number of requests for such honours in future and it is a matter for them to decide how to deal with it and whether it should just be restricted to the Armed Forces.

View Comment

readceltPosted on12:20 pm - Nov 16, 2012


It is starting to feel like a very slow week.

Calm before the storm?

Hearts seem to have managed to kick the can down the road. The problems are still there but they have more time to deal with them.

Nothing new from Phil or RTC for a while.

Should there be more concern about reconstruction and the direction(lack of) in the Scottish game?

The tartan army seems A political unless its around booing the current hapless manager.

I think we are past the point where one man is going to make a massive difference to this countries footballing fortunes save for someone with a plan that gleans a coherent sustainable conveyor belt of talent able to compete on a world stage.

Roll on Monday.

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