Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

ByTrisidium

Why the Beast of Armageddon Failed to Show?

A Blog for Scottish Football Monitor by Stuart Cosgrove

At the height of summer of discontent I was asked to contribute to a BBC radio show with Jim Traynor and Jim Spence. ‘Armageddon’ had just been pronounced and if the media were to be believed Scotland was about to freeze over in a new ice-age: only a cold darkness lay ahead.

To get the radio-show off to a healthy and pretentious start I began by saying that Scottish football was experiencing an “epistemological break”. It was an in-joke with Jim Spence, who I have known since we were both teenage ‘suedeheads.’ I was a mouthy young St Johnstone fan and Jim was an Arabian sand-dancer. But even in those distant days, we shared a mutual distrust of the ‘old firm’ and in our separate ways wanted a better future for our clubs. We both grew up to become products of the fanzine era, Jim as a writer for Dundee United’s ‘The Final Hurdle’ and me as a staff writer for the NME. Without ever having to say it, we had both engaged in a guerrilla-war against what Aberdeen’s Willie Miller once characterised as “West Coast Bias”.

The term ‘epistemological break’ was shamelessly borrowed from French Marxist philosophy. It means a fundamental change in the way we construct and receive knowledge and although I used it on air as a wind-up to test Spencey’s significantly less-reliable Dundee schooling, deep down I meant it.

Social Media has proved to be one of the greatest disruptions in the history of the football supporter – greater than the brake clubs of the 19th century, the football specials on the 1970s; or the fanzine movement of the post-punk era. The pace of change in the way we send, receive and interrogate information has been so dynamic that it has wrong-footed administrators, asset strippers and sports journalists, alike. No matter who you support we are living through media history.

2012 had just witnessed an unprecedented summer of sport. The Olympics provided a snapshot of how sudden and pervasive the shift to social media has become. Over 40% of UK adults claim to have posted comments on websites, blogs or social networking about the Olympics and in younger age-groups that figure tips conclusively to a majority – 61% of 16-24’s posted Olympic comments. Think about that figure for a moment. Well over half of the young people in the UK are now participants in social media and pass comment on sport. The genie is out of the bottle and it will never be forced back. That is the main reason that Armageddon never happened: we no longer live in an age where the media can guarantee our compliance.

On the first day of the 2012-13-season, Rangers were in the deep throes of administration and facing certain liquidation. With no accounts to meet the criteria for SPL membership, one among a body of rules which the old Rangers had themselves been an architect of, the new Rangers could not be granted entry without a wholesale abandonment of the rules. It was not to be.

St Johnstone launched their new season at Tynecastle so I travelled with misplaced hope. We were soundly beaten 2-0 and both Hearts goals were entirely merited. On the day, I did a quick if unscientific survey of two supporters’ buses – the Barossa Saints Club, a more traditional lads-bus and the ‘208 Ladies’ a predominantly female and family-friendly bus. On both buses, over 75% of fans had mobile phones with 3G internet access and the majority of them posted updates or pictures before, during or after the match. They mostly posted via micro-blogging sites such as Facebook or Twitter, many commenting on the game, their day-out and the surroundings. Most were speaking to friends or rival fans. Some were publishing pictures and updating forums or blogs. And when he second a decisive goal went in some were undoubtedly taking stick from Gort, Webby DFC and DeeForLife, the pseudonyms of prominent Dundee fans, who as the newly promoted ‘Club 12’ were suddenly and very temporarily above St Johnstone in the SPL.

By my rough calculations, well over half the St Johnstone support was web-connected. I have no reason to think the Hearts supporters were any different. This small experiment reflects an unprecedented shift in the balance of communication in Scottish football and in the truest sense it is an ‘epistemological break’ with past forms of spectatorship. Social media has been widely misrepresented by old-style radio ‘phone-ins’ and by journalism’s ancien regime. The presumption is that people who are connected to the web are at home, in dingy rooms where they foam at the mouth frustrated by loneliness and mental illness. The term ‘internet bampots’ (coined by Hugh Keevins) and ‘keyboard warriors’ (Gordon Strachan) speaks to a world that is fearful of the web, irked by alternative opinions, and the threat that the new media poses to the traditional exchange of knowledge.

It further assumes that opinion from social networks is naïve, ill-informed, or unreasonable. Whilst some of this may be true, mostly it is not. No one would dispute that there are small enclaves of truly despicable people using social networks and comment sites, but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the multitude of fans who simply want to talk about their team and share their dreams and memories.

Social media is porous. By that I mean it has cracks, lacunae and fissures. This inevitably means that information leaks out. It can be shared, released and in some cases becomes so energetic it becomes a virus. It is no longer possible to ‘keep secrets’, to withhold information and to allow indiscretions to pass unnoticed. Newspapers have been caught in a whirlwind of change where views can be instantly challenged, authority quickly questioned and pronouncements easily disproved. Many papers – almost all in decline – have been forced to close down their comments forums. Undoubtedly some of that is due to breaches of the rules, the cost of moderation, and the rise in awareness of hate crimes. But another significant factor is that ordinary fans were consistently challenging the opinions and ‘facts’ that newspapers published.

Talking down to fans no longer works and we now have evidence – Armageddon did not happen. The beast that was supposed to devour us all was a toothless fantasy. In the more abrasive language of the terraces – Armageddon shat-it and didn’t turn up.

In one respect the myth of Armageddon was an entirely predictable one. Tabloid newspapers make money from scaring people – health scares, prisoners on the run, fear of terrorism, anxiety about young people, and most recently ‘fear’ of Scottish independence is their stock in trade. Almost every major subject is raised as a spectre to be fearful of. Most newspapers were desperate to ‘save Rangers’ since they themselves feared the consequences of losing even more readership. It was easier to argue that a hideous financial catastrophe would befall Scottish football unless Rangers were fast-tracked back into the SPL. Newspapers found common cause with frightened administrators who could not imagine a world without Rangers, either.

So we were invited to endorse one of the greatest circumlocutions of all time – unless you save a club that has crashed leaving millions of pounds of debt, the game is financially doomed. You would struggle to encounter this bizarre logic in any other walk of life. Unless Rick Astley brings out a new album music will die. That is what they once argued and many still do. That is how desperately illogical the leadership in Scottish football had become.

Armageddon was a tissue of inaccuracies from the outset. It tried to script a disaster-movie of chaotic failure and financial disaster and at the very moment when senior administrators should have been fighting for the livelihood of the league, they were briefing against their own business.

Armageddon was a big inarticulate beast but it faced a mightier opponent – facts. One by one the clubs published their annual accounts. Although this was against the backdrop of a double-dip recession and fiercely difficult economic circumstances it was not all doom and gloom. The arrival of Club 12 (Dundee) meant higher crowds and the potential for increased income at Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Johnstone. To this day, this simple fact remains unfathomable to many people in the Glasgow-dominated media. The arrival of Ross County meant an exciting new top-tier local derby for Inverness Caley Thistle and a breath of fresh air for the SPL. St Johnstone insisted on the first ever SPL meeting outside Glasgow to reflect the new northern and eastern geo-politics of the Scottish game.

European football meant new income streams for Motherwell. Of course times were tight, football is never free from the ravages of the economy and some clubs predictably showed trading losses. But the underlying reasons were always idiosyncratic and inconsistent never consistent across the board. Inverness had an unprecedented spate of injuries and over-shot their budgets for healthcare and so published a loss £378,000.

Meanwhile Dundee United published healthy accounts having sold David Goodwillie to Blackburn. Celtic reached the Champion’s League group stages with all the new wealth it will bequeath. St Johnstone – led by the ultra-cautious Brown family – had already cut the cost of their squad, bidding farewell to the most expensive players Francisco Sandaza and Lee Croft. The club also benefited from compensation for their departed manager, Derek McInnes and player-coach, Jody Morris. Paradoxically, Bristol City had proven to be more important to the club’s income than Rangers. Again this was not part of the script and proved unfathomable (or more accurately irrelevant) to most in the Glasgow media.

Hearts failed to pay players on time due to serious restraints on squad costs and internal debt. They were duly punished for their repeated misdemeanours. Motherwell and St Mirren despite the economic challenges were navigating different concepts of fan ownership. By November most clubs – with the exception of Celtic – were showing increased SPL attendance on the previous season. Far from the scorched earth failure that we were told was inevitable what has emerged is a more complex eco-system of financial management, in which local dynamics and a more mature cost-efficient reality was being put in place.

It may well be that Armageddon was the last desperate caricature of a form of media that was already in terminal decline. Flash back to 1967 when Scottish football had a so-called ‘golden age’. There was European success, we tamed England at Wembley and names like Law and Baxter brightened dark nights. Back then access to knowledge was a very narrow funnel. Only a small cadre of privileged journalists had access to the managers and players, and so fans waited dutifully for the Daily Record to arrive at their door to tell them what was happening. That system of ‘elite access to knowledge’ was in its last decadent throes nearly thirty years later, when David Murray would dispense wisdom to his favoured journalists. We now know they drank fine wine and ate succulent lamb in Jersey and the most loyal attended Murray’s 50th birthday party at Gleneagles. One journalist was so proud of his invite he danced round the editorial office mocking those who had not been invited. This was the early height of the Rangers EBT era but it is now clear that difficult questions went unasked by either journalists or by football administrators.

Although it may not suit the narrative of this particular blog my first realisation that David Murray’s empire was living on leveraged debt was from a small cadre of Rangers fans. It was around the early years of the Rangers Supporter’s Trust (RST) and they were determined to shake more democracy from the Ibrox boardroom. Whilst real fans of the club argued from the outside, the press took Murray at his loquacious word. He was in many respects their benefactor, their visionary – their moonbeam.

By the 1990s onwards, football journalism had ritualised and festered around the inner sanctums at Ibrox. This was an era where relevance meant being invited to a ‘presser’ at Murray Park, having Ally’s mobile or playing golf with ‘Juke Box,’ ‘Durranty’ or ‘Smudger’. Many journalists, showing a compliant lack of self-awareness, would use these nicknames as if conveyed closeness, familiarity or friendship. It is desperately sad that careers have been built on such paltry notions of access and such demeaning obsequiousness.

Around this period I had become a freelance radio-presenter and was presenting Off the Ball with my friend Tam Cowan, a Motherwell fan. We both wanted to fashion a show which saw football not trough its familiar narratives, but through the lens of the ‘diddy’ teams, a term so demeaning that we tried to reclaim it. Refusing to peddle the inevitability of ‘old firm’ power we sensed that journalistic compliance at Ibrox was now so ingrained that it was ripe for satirising. This was the main reason that Off the Ball branded itself as ‘petty and ill-informed.’ It was a self-mocking antidote to those journalists that could ‘exclusively reveal’ breaking stories from ‘impeccable sources,’ which usually meant they had heard it on the golf-course, from Walter, a man who needed no surname.

Many fans are astonished when I tell them how the journalism of this era actually functioned. On Champions League nights, journalists from opposing papers gathered together to agree what to write. Circulation was in decline, money was tight, agency copy was on the increase and foreign trips were under-scrutiny. No one dared miss the ‘big story’. So sports journalists who commonly boasted about their toughness and who ‘feared no one’ were often so fearful of returning home having missed an angle, that they agreed by consensus to run with variations of the same story. Celtic fans may wish to recoil at the image – but journalists would go into a ‘huddle’ at the end of a press-conference to agree the favoured line.

So the summer of 2012 witnessed an ‘epistemological break’ in how knowledge and information was exchanged. But let me go further and taunt Jim Spence one more time. It was the summer we also witnessed an ‘amygdala-crisis’ exposing the way the media works in Scotland. Amygdala is the nuclei in the brain that manages our tolerance for risk and is the key that often unlocks creative thinking. Many people in relatively high places in the media – a creative industry – demonstrated that they could not conceive of change, nor could they imagine what football would look like if Rangers were not playing in the SPL. They not only resisted change but lacked the imagination to think beyond it. A common language began to emerge that tried to ward off risk and an almost a childlike fear of the dark. ‘Scottish football needs a strong Rangers,’ ‘But there will no competition’; ‘other clubs will suffer’; ‘Draw a line in the sand’; ‘It was one man – Craig Whyte’, ‘They’ve been punished enough’ and of course, the daddy of them all – ‘Armageddon.’

The biggest single barrier to change was the lingering and outmoded notion that Rangers subsidised Scottish football. As a supporter of a club that had spent seven economically stable years in a league that Rangers have never played in made me deeply suspicious and I was in the words of the we-forums ‘seething’ that St Johnstone were portrayed as somehow ‘dependent’ on a club that was already fatefully insolvent. Because so little is known about the experience of the fans of smaller clubs, they are often misrepresented. For seven years my friends and I, travelled home and away in the First Division, often narrowly missing out on promotion as rival clubs like Gretna, Dundee and Livingston all used money they did not have to ‘buy’ success. It remains an incontrovertible fact that St Johnstone FC has been among the most consistent victims of fiscal misdemeanour in Scottish football. That is the irreducible issue. Several clubs have very real reasons to loathe financial mismanagement, rogue-trading and those that gain unfair advantage on the back of unserviceable debt.

Social media has allowed these smaller incremental versions of history to be told when the established media had no interest in telling them. Blogs can dig deeper than the back pages ever can and fans are now more likely to meet on Facebook than on a supporter’s bus. Many players now bypass the press completely and tweet directly with fans. Rio Ferdinand’s recent attack on racism in English football has been conducted entirely via social media, over the heads of the press. In the Rangers Tax Case context, restricted documents are regularly shared online, where they can be analysed and torn apart. Those with specialist skills such as insolvency, tax expertise or accountancy can lend their skills to a web forum and can therefore dispute official versions of events.

Not all social media is good. Open-access has meant a disproportionate rise in victim culture. The ‘easily-offended’ prowl every corner of the web desperate to find a morsel that will upset them but that is a small price to pay for greater transparency and even the most ardent bore is no excuse for limiting the free exchange of information.

We have witnessed a summer of seismic change. A discredited era that largely relied on ‘elite access to knowledge’ has all but passed away and information, however complex or seemingly unpalatable, can no longer be withheld from fans. The days of being ‘dooped’ are over.

It has been a privilege to participate in the summer of discontent and I yearn for even greater change to come. Bring it on.

Stuart Cosgrove
Stuart Cosgrove is a St Johnstone fan. He was previously Media Editor of the NME and is now Director of Creative Diversity at Channel 4, where he recently managed coverage of the Paralympics, London 2012. At the weekend he presents the BBC Scotland football show ‘Off the Ball’ with Tam Cowan. He writes here in a personal capacity.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,744 Comments so far

chancer67Posted on9:56 pm - Nov 18, 2012


tommysays @21:28

Its time for the fans to make their voices heard , can we start a petition on here or on twitter i’m sure the more savvy bloggers on here can make the arrangements.
We cant afford to let the guard down we have come too far to let the gutter press (evening jack)
in on the blind side.

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ShooperbPosted on9:59 pm - Nov 18, 2012


readcelt says:

Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 21:26

I sort of agree, but I think there may be a split between broadsheet and red top. Let’s face it, Traynor and the like are going to continue pandering to their core readership, and if it all goes wrong, well, he can always give it the ‘We’re just a tabloid’ excuse again!

Broadsheets tend to care more about their credibility, so it wouldn’t surprise me to see more of this sort of analysis.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on10:03 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 21:56
0 0 Rate This
BAFTA in Scotland @BAFTAScotland 11m
Outstanding Contribution to Broadcasting – Stuart Cosgrove
#BAFTAScotland
===========

It was his SFM post that clinched it 🙂

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broadswordcallingdannybhoyPosted on10:14 pm - Nov 18, 2012


tommythehat says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 21:28

How viable is a coming together of various supporters orgs, the tartan army supporters orgs and any other relevant and willing participants – with a view to creating a very loud and powerful supporters voice that can challenge the SFA with regards to transparency?

===============================================

This site has shown that it is possible for the fans to come together.
This site can be, I believe, the voice that you are looking for.
I believe that if TSFM flexed it’s muscles a collective shiver would run up the spines of the toerags ruining our game.

Our money talks, it spoke in the summer and they had to listen.
One of this country’s greatest managers told us how powerful we can be:

http://celticfanzone.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/jock-stein-quote-fans-football.jpg

If need be I’d support fans boycotting a league game, but turning up en-masse to other games of football in their area, be it Junior, Amateur or school’s football. Fans can still send their money to the club they support. Completely empty stadiums whilst local parks and schools are crammed would get the attention of the world’s media who would have no qualms in asking some pertinent questions. The threat of this would be enough to get rid of The Parcel of Roguilvies willing to risk the death of professional football in this country for the benefit of that shower of…………

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Danish PastryPosted on10:22 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Brenda says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 14:55
39 4 Rate This
I posted yesterday that Mark guidi ( now where have I heard that name before ) on SSB phone-in said to a caller that it was ok for CG to tell blatant lies because he was trying to promote his share issue ?? As we have said many times before the Scottish MSM are absolutely pathetic and as for ‘sports journalists’ ??? Well we have keevins, dawwell king, Keith Jackson, Jabba, chic young ……….. Need I say more……. Not fit for purpose
—————-

Brenda,
Can you give us the approximate part of the programme, timewise, when Guidi said that? I listened to the podcast and heard quite a sceptical Guidi indicate he was suspicious of Green. It came between 7.50 and 11.45 into the podcast during discussions with a caller called Jim. Darrell King speaks too, but Guidi comes in about 9.31. Of the two, it’s King who seems more of an apologist for Green. But the podcast is only a 45-minute highlights edition, so if you know when in the show that quote from Guidi comes I’d like to try and find it on the full-show playback. Guidi’s been done an injustice on this blog recently by a notorious fake poster who turned out to be oldgold. Just feel if we make specific references like that, and it is quite an accusation, then we should try and post the exact reference. I’m no great fan of the SSB show but enjoy some of the callers and one or two of the presenters are pretty much ok at times. The Shire caller was an eye-opener as folks have said, especially talking about the police presence, and the fact that they may just about break even from yesterday’s match if they’re lucky. Anyway, if you could give an approximate time in the show for the Guidi quote. Cheers.

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ordinaryfanPosted on10:22 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Taken from KDS

celticfcblog

Heard today that Tennent’s gave Green a yellow card for wearing an orange strip.
This was on one of his recent trips to Belfast. (He’s made at least two trips there. He really doesn’t care where the money for his shares comes from. )
Tennent’s reminded Chuckles that all RFC employees are contracted to wear official apparel with Tennent’s logos – not “ntl:home” as was on the old strip that some bigot produced from nowhere and persuaded the old clown to pull over his head.
One more stunt like that and Tennent’s will rip up the contract.
Oh, and they won’t, under any circumstances, be having their name plastered over any orange strip.
Yet another pile of poo from auld Chuckles.

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BrendaPosted on10:23 pm - Nov 18, 2012


fishnish @18:34

😉 Barcelona of course diddy dalziel’s pronunciation completely put me off sorry 🙂

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coineanachantaighePosted on10:34 pm - Nov 18, 2012


angus1983 says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 19:21
Caligula (“Little Boots”, a nickname given him by the Army after his childhood soldier’s outfit), planned to make his favourite horse Incitatus a Consul. I think the horse only ended up being a priest, though. 🙂

Chief Judge Caligula out of 200AD, however, made his pet fish Deputy Chief Judge. The latter was assassinated on the orders of Judge Dredd.
——————————————————————————————–
Deputy Chief Judge Goldfish? It’s true, you learn something every day on TSFM. 🙂

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Palacio67Posted on10:37 pm - Nov 18, 2012


ordinaryfan says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 22:22

I know it was taken from KDS, but I think that strip was pictured when Chuckles was on his jaunt to Canada/America. I may be wrong though

Danish Pastry says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 22:22

I would guess the time was about 1715 on SSB, Brenda may be more accurate.

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BrendaPosted on10:37 pm - Nov 18, 2012


fishnish @18:34

😉 Barcelona of course diddy dalziel’s pronunciation completely put me off sorry 🙂 the man is dense and has tunnel vision where sevco are concerned ……….. Anyone else having problems with wordpress?

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doontheslopePosted on10:42 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Tommythehat

Your post should be nailed to the back door of every football Cathedral in Scotland. It would be a fitting ‘mission statement’ for this counter-Reformation.

This is a counter-Reformation. Or are THEY just being paranoid?

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jean7brodiePosted on10:48 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Brenda says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 22:37

Yes WordPress problems for my buddy who wants to comment on here. Could you post a link to SSB re Mark Guidi as I’m thick when it comes to technical stuff!!

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BrendaPosted on11:00 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Danish Pastry @ 22:22

I posted a comment on here re guidi’s excuses for green’s lies at 17:28 yesterday so I think it would have been just before that his comments were in aswer to a caller asking why CG was getting away with telling lies?? Hope you can find it!

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BrendaPosted on11:30 pm - Nov 18, 2012


A thousand apologies I listened again and it’s actually Fraser wishart who makes the comments about CG having to beef things u coz he’s trying to sell shares?? Unbelievable lies are ok if you’re sevco the caller is Jim and it’s at about 17:25 sorry again 🙁

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goosyPosted on11:36 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Will the Bafta awards to Mark Daly and Stuart Cosgrove be praised in the MSM?

I bet not

Not that Mark or Stuart will care

But we do
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

“Thanks guys for telling the truth

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tommythehatPosted on11:59 pm - Nov 18, 2012


Thanks for the feedback guys – it’s very appreciated and demonstrates exactly why TSFM is what it is. If Jack is reading in tonight, it would be nice if he was reading this; Sevco will NEVER be placated in a higher league without first earning the place via promotions – it won’t happen Jack – if it does, Sevco zombies and Kilmarnock can play each other weekly.

It’s no-one elses fault that Sevco cannot survive present overheads without top-tier status, It’s Charlies fault for not cutting costs – it’s the old boards fault for being crooks and having the club liquidated in the first place.

But we don’t miss Sevco – and that is what really irks – eh, Jack??

Unless they REALLY are stupid. Regan et-al know Sevco aren’t missed either – and Regan has actualy said as much – albeit grudgingly – so why are we STILL having to be vigilant against corruption?? It really is incredible, after the events of last season – the fans of all the clubs and all clubs bar Kilmarnock left them in no doubt what they thought of the attempts at cheating/corruption, so why are we STILL reading about league reconstruction less than half way through this season??

Because Charlie really does have them by the balls and this is why they all have to go.

I genuinly speak as a fan of Scottish football, not as a Celtic fan – we really do have to find a way to force major change at the SFA – we cannot be left wondering what exactly is going on with the SFA – maybe that’s how things were but not in this day and age – Regan might be the ‘modern’ twittering social face of the org – but he’s totaly compromised and so is his org – by a SFL3 football side and it’s shady owners – it cannot continue for all our sakes.

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tommythehatPosted on12:16 am - Nov 19, 2012


One last thing; Does Shiels and Craigan realise just how much they may have cost Killie??

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forweonlyknowPosted on12:19 am - Nov 19, 2012


Goosy Goosy 18:43

“4. Green declares he cannot cohabit with people he despises. He would rather hand the club over to someone who loves Rangers.,,,”

Yip. that one sounds about right! ;

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ordinaryfanPosted on12:36 am - Nov 19, 2012


tommythehat says: I genuinly speak as a fan of Scottish football, not as a Celtic fan – we really do have to find a way to force major change at the SFA – we cannot be left wondering what exactly is going on with the SFA – maybe that’s how things were but not in this day and age

…………………………………………………………………………………………………….

And that is fantastic progression, not long ago the Scottish football authorities would have just pressed ahead regardless with reconstruction.
The compliant media would be mocking the supporters who opposed as either Dinosaurs or as sinister, bitter, Rangers hating internet loners.
Now they are cautious and unsure. The tides are turning, supporters have a voice and so far have used it to drastically IMPROVE Scottish football in a very short space of time.
Long may that continue.

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ordinaryfanPosted on12:48 am - Nov 19, 2012


Tommy’s Hat: Uniting the supporters would be the best thing that ever happened to Scottish Football.

Well, the 2nd best thing.

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tommythehatPosted on1:15 am - Nov 19, 2012


ordinaryfan says:

Monday, November 19, 2012 at 00:36
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Absolutely. Kicking, dragging and screaming is how the SFA were always going to react to change – but they have brought it on themselves with astonishing speed recently and made the mistake of banking on only Celtic fans kicking off regarding the pre-season Sevco scam – the shock of it being the entire football community of Scotland was def something none of them seen coming. Jack and his old rusty PR truck were never going to sell the scam to us – we’re not all as daft as Jack’s target demographic – and they know it – so the hard sell has changed tactic somewhat – now theres a flotation to sell – perhaps that is the root of the recent reconstruction talk??

But when the SFA remain silent amidst such scandalous rumour – nothing, not a peep – then you have to wonder; Why does the SFA have nothing to say to a public – especially when most of that public have nothing but sheer contempt and zero respect for the governors of ur game.

They have nothing to say because they are kite-flying. Again it stinks to high heaven of Jack Irvine and once again – Regan et-al are wondering what Charlie will do when the kite simply floats to the ground without as much as a whiff of flight – In another dimension, Regan would act like a head of a national football association – you know, stuff like coherent leadership, respect to your stakeholders i.e. the fans of all Scotlands ‘other’ clubs and above all – be beyond reproach and be completely impartial and lastly but most importantly – be transparent and open with the people you are employed to serve.

Unfortunately, Regan et-al have no choice other than to go with whatever scam Charlie concocts next – and it will become yet another attempt at outrageous cheating – and another show of toys flying from prams by Charlie, Jim Traynor and the other usual suspects.

And it wont end there – Regan and Doncaster shouldnt be in their jobs after last year – Campbell Ogilvie too and they know it. They are there because they can be manipulated. Who can remove these people from their posts? How can we have these people removed from their posts??

It is absolute skullduggery of the highest order and it’s happening right underneath our noses.

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BunionPosted on1:59 am - Nov 19, 2012


tommythehat says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 00:16

Craigan has nothing to do with Killie – he’s a Motherwell man.

It’s not Killie that link both these men, it’s their allegiance to a club that is no more that links them. Don’t ever confuse their allegiance with that of Kilmarnock FC fans however.

From a KFC viewpoint, whilst Kenny and Michael Johnston may have promoted a “we can’t survive without Tax Dodgers FC” mantra, the Killie support were more than vociferous in their denial of this stance.

Furthermore, it’s noticeable that no one from KFC were on the SPL board who tried to force Sevco FC onto the 1st Division. May I remind you who was;

Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman), Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive), Stewart Robertson (Motherwell FC), Eric Riley (Celtic FC), Stewart Gilmour (St Mirren FC) and Rod Petrie (Hibernian FC). The board met at Hampden on a monthly basis.

Oh look ….. Eric Riley but, but ……. where’s the KFC rep?????

Make sure your team isn’t the one that produces the crap before you start throwing it about.

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tommythehatPosted on2:23 am - Nov 19, 2012


Bunion says:

Monday, November 19, 2012 at 01:59
———————————————————————————————————————————
Yep, I realised Craigan played for Motherwell – apologies for the mistake with that one. As for Eric Riley? I agree. It is disgraceful, I already said I speak – not as a Celtic fan – but as a Scottish football fan…but i think you are being a wee bit misleading in your assesment of the SFL1 situation – the SPL didn’t try to force Sevco onto the 1st, the SPL member teams voted against – Killie the exception – SFL1 voted against unan if i recall correctly.

The mechanics of the ‘scam’ was a natural fall-back to SFL1 – i don’t see what on earth Eric Riley, or any of the others you mention have anything to do with it really – but i’m all ears!

You can speculate about Eric Riley all you want – but we all know exactly what Mr Johnson and your coach think, they are actively ‘selling the dream’ for Charlie.

That is quite different to speculation.

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tommythehatPosted on2:32 am - Nov 19, 2012


p.s. I accept Killie fans feelings regarding your Chairman – and I think Johnstone’s off his head considering, that’s why i’m so surprised Kenny has been talking the same theme of nonsense – I thought he had more savvy than that.

But I do get the feeling amongst the Killie faithful – and so do most – it’s just not so great when the coach forgets exactly why Sevco are in the mess they are.

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jockybhoyPosted on4:16 am - Nov 19, 2012


This fit and proper person test is a farce – according to Dave King (who despite the dropping of 37 counts of racketeering and fraud, still has 322 counts of tax evasion against him) the SPL are happy for his lawyers to make represntations as to his character – here’s a thought, wait until he is found innocent of the charges and THEN think about whether he is fit and proper…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2234195/Dave-King-invest-Rangers.html

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WeescottyPosted on7:24 am - Nov 19, 2012


Couple of points / questions –
1) whatever happened with the investigation into the charity match proceeds?
2) Is today the day the FTTT decision is made public?
3) how powerful can fans be? Ask the previous owners of Liverpool FC. The fans made it impossible for them to refinance the club.
Hicks himself stated that whenever he was spotted going to a meeting, the business involved was deluged with emails from LFC fans.

View Comment

corsicacharityPosted on7:38 am - Nov 19, 2012


Weescotty on Monday, November 19, 2012 at 07:24
1 0 Rate This
Couple of points / questions –
1) whatever happened with the investigation into the charity match proceeds?
2) Is today the day the FTTT decision is made public?
3) how powerful can fans be? Ask the previous owners of Liverpool FC. The fans made it impossible for them to refinance the club.
Hicks himself stated that whenever he was spotted going to a meeting, the business involved was deluged with emails from LFC fans.
***********
My info is that a damning report was submitted to OSCR on the charity game but that OSCR are sitting on it. I regularly chase them for an official response and will let people know as soon as I have anything further.

View Comment

Livia BurlandoPosted on8:10 am - Nov 19, 2012


corsicacharity says: My info is that a damning report was submitted to OSCR

I’ve also heard that rumour and also have pressed OSCR for a response ( I made a complaint last year at the time of the ‘charity’ match ). I have had a series of answers, all of which are a variation of, ‘go away, we’ll answer when we’re good and ready’. I am concerned OSCR are going to end up disrepute by this.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on8:14 am - Nov 19, 2012


I see Sally is supporting Longmuir’s SFL restructuring proposals. Nothing to do with it allowing TRFC to be in the top league in 2014/15 he said.

Aye right.

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BrendaPosted on8:33 am - Nov 19, 2012


Apart from being ‘relegated’ to the bottom tier of Scottish football and the transfer embargo because cheats fc were not paying for any players they ‘bought’ has any other investigation or court case actually come to a conclusion??? And who is paying every time something is delayed/postponed……. Just make a decision and issue the punishments as if it were any other club/company. Rid Scottish football of this toxic organisation and take the SFA with them as turnbull says they’re corrupt!! 🙂

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on9:02 am - Nov 19, 2012


Brenda says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 23:00
7 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry @ 22:22

I posted a comment on here re guidi’s excuses for green’s lies at 17:28 yesterday so I think it would have been just before that his comments were in aswer to a caller asking why CG was getting away with telling lies?? Hope you can find it!
————

Found that Brenda, thanks a lot. It’s passed off by the speaker (Wishart?j as a sales pitch which shouldn’t be taken seriously. In the context of these programmes that probably qualifies as harsh criticism 🙂

It’s just a pity that Guidi was wrongly mentioned/accused again as he seemed the most critical of the show’s hosts. He comes in at 9:20 on SSB Rewind with a nice slice of healthy scepticism towards Green. Perhaps why oldgold/observer made such a cowardly effort to discredit him on this blog?

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saskya1888Posted on9:03 am - Nov 19, 2012


Seems to me that everything is slotting into place as has been planned all along.
CW did say that he would return the club in a better position and, as he is their savior; will be thanked in the long run.
Looks like the “newco” will be returned to the fans by the same delusional, supremacists that were embedded at the core of the demise in the first place,
First was the return of Walter d’EBT, and when King is back then the much needed dodgy finance is in place.
CG has almost played his part to fruition and will be rewarded handsomely for it from the share issue. With the multi -millions available from Mr. King who needs the share issue to be a raging success -just enough to pay off CG,
The fan’s won’t care that they were shafted again when they see all the old boy’s back in place – they will see their payment to TRFC as a small token gesture “for the cause”.

Full-circle or what????

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manandboyPosted on9:03 am - Nov 19, 2012


Brenda says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 08:33

Rid Scottish football of this toxic organisation and take the SFA with them as turnbull says they’re corrupt!!
________________________________________________________________________________

If any individual had done what RFC(IL) have done, then they would be classified as a criminal.

RFC(IL) was a criminal club.

It’s offspring looks to be well on the way to the same title.

The SFA ? What are they doing?

Aiding and abetting.

View Comment

redetinPosted on9:03 am - Nov 19, 2012


Brenda says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 08:33

“has any other investigation or court case actually come to a conclusion???”

____________________________________________________________

My calendar shows:

Feb 2012 Strathclyde Police enquiry established.
June 2012 Strathclyde Police investigation announced

I don’t remember hearing of any outcome of these police activities.

View Comment

saskya1888Posted on9:06 am - Nov 19, 2012


Having just read the piece on Dave King, can someone assure me that there is such a thing as “a fit and proper persons’ test” ?
Who does this test?
What are the requirements needed to pass/fail?
The Daily Mail actually heralds that HE (King) has decided to advise us all that he is fit and proper – surely they don’t believe this is a good way forward? How can anyone in Scotland allow this character to invest any money into the economy. Never mind into SPORT.

Let’s not forget that this “business” has just shafted the economy for 140M+, yet our tabloids think we should welcome further investment from an alleged tax cheat
I would like to know of ONE legitimate businessman who would accept losing £20M in one transaction; only to announce that he was going to do EXACTLY the same again!!
I don’t believe that there is ANYONE who has had to earn that kind of money legitimately, through honest hard work, who would.
Rant over for the day – but i would really like to know how this “test” actually works?

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corsicacharityPosted on9:10 am - Nov 19, 2012


Livia Burlando says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 08:10

corsicacharity says: My info is that a damning report was submitted to OSCR

I’ve also heard that rumour and also have pressed OSCR for a response ( I made a complaint last year at the time of the ‘charity’ match ). I have had a series of answers, all of which are a variation of, ‘go away, we’ll answer when we’re good and ready’. I am concerned OSCR are going to end up disrepute by this.
**********
That’s my concern too. This is potentially a very big problem for OSCR and the charity sector as copious research demonstrates (1) the importance of public confidence and trust in charities; (2) a knock in that confidence/trust has a disproportionate impact upon the sector as a whole and not just the individual charity concerned; and, (3) perception is everything.

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corsicacharityPosted on9:19 am - Nov 19, 2012


PS: if you’ve not seen it, I would recommend you read Jim Traynor’s article in the Daily Record (I was alerted to it by bartinmain on twitter); it’s a cracker…

Never mind Ogilvie, Regan and Doncaster – how is that man still in a job?

View Comment

Palacio67Posted on9:29 am - Nov 19, 2012


saskya1888 says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:06

I think the conversation from D King and the SFA will go along the lines of the piece from Monty Pythons Life of Brian. ” To join the PFJ you need to hate the Romans a lot “, ” I do hate the Romans “, ” Oh Yeah, How much “, ” A lot “, ” Right your in “.
Seriously though, after the blatant corruption over the summer months, no one will stand in D Kings way, He will be welcomed with a red carpet.
You just have to look at how Ole googly eyes swaggered into town as the new saviour, with no questions asked.
However could his time as a director at Oldco rangers, go against him if the FTT gives a damning report on the goings on at Ibrox?

Here’s hoping for a FTT verdict today 🙂

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Palacio67Posted on9:32 am - Nov 19, 2012


corsicacharity says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:19

CC, Any links to the Traynor article?

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bluPosted on9:39 am - Nov 19, 2012


Danish Pastry says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:02
5 0 i
Rate This

Brenda says:
Sunday, November 18, 2012 at 23:00
7 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry @ 22:22

I posted a comment on here re guidi’s excuses for green’s lies at 17:28 yesterday so I think it would have been just before that his comments were in aswer to a caller asking why CG was getting away with telling lies?? Hope you can find it!
————

Found that Brenda, thanks a lot. It’s passed off by the speaker (Wishart?j as a sales pitch which shouldn’t be taken seriously. In the context of these programmes that probably qualifies as harsh criticism

It’s just a pity that Guidi was wrongly mentioned/accused again as he seemed the most critical of the show’s hosts. He comes in at 9:20 on SSB Rewind with a nice slice of healthy scepticism towards Green. Perhaps why oldgold/observer made such a cowardly effort to discredit him on this blog?

==========================================================
Thumbs up from me DP, nicely managed and diplomatic. Rigour and accuracy are fundamental if this site is offer value to Scottish football fans.

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Father MurphyPosted on9:39 am - Nov 19, 2012


Bunion says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 01:59

Bunion I worked in Kilmarnock at that time and spoke to many Killie fans about the issue.
Every one of them was appalled and ashamed in the way Johnston voted.
It was his choice to vote, or in this case abstain , in this way. He ignored his own fans .

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corsicacharityPosted on9:53 am - Nov 19, 2012


Palacio67 says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:32

corsicacharity says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:19

CC, Any links to the Traynor article?
*************

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spl-is-a-joke-and-so-is-revamp-idea-1444738

View Comment

wottpiPosted on9:55 am - Nov 19, 2012


WRT the return of Dave King

Was it not the case that by the time Rangers were being flushed down the lavvy pan Dave King was the only director to have been present during both SDM and MBB’s reign at the club.
Here is a man so concerned about Scottish Football that he was not capable of looking after his own £20m ‘investment’ in the deid club. A loss which he laters said he wanted to take SDM to court for.

I am sure the SFA cannot do anything if he wants to give Sevco his cash. However If they allow him to take a seat on the board then it proves the sniff test is just full of snot and bogeys.

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Father MurphyPosted on9:55 am - Nov 19, 2012


Palacio67

Here is the link you asked for.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spl-is-a-joke-and-so-is-revamp-idea-1444738

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on9:57 am - Nov 19, 2012


The latest “ecojohn” blog post highlights the incorporation of “Rangers Football PLC” which may well turn out to be the new publicly quoted TRFC, or its parent/holding company.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/new-rangers-plc-director-linked-to-harper-macleod-exclusive-revelation-by-ecojon/

The new company seems genuine enough given that the lawyers involved are Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP based at Vine Street, in London.

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on10:10 am - Nov 19, 2012


easyJambo says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:57
0 0 Rate This
The latest “ecojohn” blog post highlights the incorporation of “Rangers Football PLC” which may well turn out to be the new publicly quoted TRFC, or its parent/holding company.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/new-rangers-plc-director-linked-to-harper-macleod-exclusive-revelation-by-ecojon/

The new company seems genuine enough given that the lawyers involved are Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP based at Vine Street, in London.
———–

I didn’t understand the significance of what I read. Not surprising really. 🙂

Is this a simple renaming, or a kind of corporate restructure, or an empty company created for reasons beyond our ken?

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Madbhoy24941Posted on10:15 am - Nov 19, 2012


corsicacharity says:

Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:19

—————————————————————–

He is still in a job because we are discussing his opinion, he is doing exactly what he gets paid to do. His boss pays him to write his opinion and to stimulate debate, he is paid to ensure The Daily Record is on the minds of the public at a time when the industry is in decline. He is in actual fact, doing a very good job and that is why he is still in a job.

I would also run the risk of 1000 thumbs down by stating that some of the points he makes are valid and worth debate, he is nothing if not knowledgeable in the workings of football chairmen so not everything he says is crap.

Why he invokes so much hatred is nothing to do with his job specification, it’s the way he tends to favour one club and the way he resorts to petty name calling and personal attacks (Petrie, Lennon..) to make a point. I personally dislike his opinion simply because he changes like the wind. Some months back he was asking why we were putting the fate of Rangers in the hands of chairmen who ran part-time clubs, now he is telling us those same chairmen have more good ideas and intelligence than the SPL chairmen. That is only one example of how he changes depending on what agenda he is working to at that time, the admission that chairmen came to him so his paper could influence mindset is an actual admission that he is well known for doing just that type of thing.

So if you want to have a go at him folks, forget the “why is he still in a job thing” and start to question how/why his opinion follows the aims of a specific person or group when the need calls.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:17 am - Nov 19, 2012


easyJambo says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:57

The latest “ecojohn” blog post highlights the incorporation of “Rangers Football PLC” which may well turn out to be the new publicly quoted TRFC, or its parent/holding company.
===========================================================
Why just “Rangers Football PLC”
No mention of a “club”
Could this PLC just be a holding company for a private limited company shortly to be launched on the AIM market?.

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on10:26 am - Nov 19, 2012


corsicacharity says: Monday, November 19, 2012 at 09:53

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spl-is-a-joke-and-so-is-revamp-idea-1444738
=======================================
What a pile of tosh once again from Jabba.

Don’t be fooled by the crowd at Tynecastle on Saturday when fans streamed towards their Gorgie shrine or at Pittodrie. Hearts fans were out in force to help save their stricken club and Aberdeen had a chance to go top of the SPL so, of course, their supporters were going to turn out.

They’ll go missing again shortly.

You are right on that one, Jabba. They will go missing again if Scottish Football bends over backwards again to propel TRFC up the league structure in advance of their league position and performances.

Apart from what they do or don’t owe the tax man their debt is about £23m and rising. Also, Romanov is believed to have put more than £30m into the club since he bought it and it has been said he’s written off much of that. But what if he hasn’t? What if that amount has still to be settled?

You would think that he or one of his minions at the DR would at least do a modicum of research on Hearts before coming up with such guff. Check the accounts. What doesn’t he understand about “Debt for Equity” Swaps or “Forgiveness of Debt”?
For the record here is a list of Romanov’s write offs.

16-Nov-05 £2,000,000 (SMG) Loan stock + interest forgiveness
31-Jul-08 £12,000,000 Debt for equity swap
31-Jul-10 £5,926,000 Related party forgiveness
31-Jul-10 £1,255,000 Parent Company forgiveness
31-Jul-10 £721,000 (SMG) Loan stock forgiveness
11-Nov-10 £10,000,000 Debt for equity swap
30-Jun-12 £8,804,000 Parent Company forgiveness
Total £40,706,000

If he believes that there is some doubt whether or not these amounts have been settled, then we can look forward to his investigative skills being used to establish the repayment terms and amounts owing to TRFC investors …………………..No?, I thought not.

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easyJamboPosted on10:28 am - Nov 19, 2012


torrejohnbhoy says: Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:17

Why just “Rangers Football PLC”
No mention of a “club”
Could this PLC just be a holding company for a private limited company shortly to be launched on the AIM market?.
===========================================================
That would be my reading of it.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:35 am - Nov 19, 2012


Can anyone advise me on Dave Kings position at the moment.As I understand it,he had 2 restriction orders against him.one of those,in the name of his company Ben Nevis,was revoked.the other,however is still in place.
Does this mean that DK is allowed to trade under the Ben Nevis name or is he still barred,due to the existing restriction order?.
I know common sense and the SFA/SPL don’t normally go hand in hand but surely the fact that:
1.there are still around 300 charges pending in South Africa against him,
2.There is still a restriction order in place in the UK,
3.He was still a director of RFC shortly before liquidation,
should all mean that DK should have no chance of being declared “fit & proper”.

View Comment

neepheidPosted on10:36 am - Nov 19, 2012


. tommythehat says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 02:23

As for Eric Riley? I agree. It is disgraceful, I already said I speak – not as a Celtic fan – but as a Scottish football fan…but i think you are being a wee bit misleading in your assesment of the SFL1 situation – the SPL didn’t try to force Sevco onto the 1st, the SPL member teams voted against – Killie the exception – SFL1 voted against unan if i recall correctly.
=================================
I’ve agreed with everything you’ve posted in the last 24 hours, but I think your memory has let you down on this point.

The SPL voted not to allow Sevco into the SPL, but they did so on the basis that the SPL, SFL and SFA would use every means possible to ensure that Sevco got a place in SFL1.

The methods used included bribery and blackmail, in a blatant attempt by our footballing authorities to shoehorn Sevco into SFL1. Doncaster even told the SFL clubs that the SPL would withhold a £2m payment legally due to the SFL if they didn’t vote Sevco into SFL1.

Here is a link to a statement on Clyde’s website.

http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/07/10/4139/

In fact it is worth reading all the July statements by that club to get the full flavour of what went on then. (Incidentally, if only all clubs communicated so well and so openly with their fans- all credit to Clyde.)

The Clyde statement also shows us the origins of the 5-way agreement. Clyde were concerned even then, that Sevco hadn’t applied for SFA membership, but were to receive the RFC membership by transfer.

By the time the negotiation of that agreement began, Sevco had already been voted entry into SFL3 by the SFL clubs. So there was some pressure on the authorities to transfer the membership or have a hole in their fixture list.

On the other hand, the transfer of membership was entirely at the discretion of the SFA Board, so you would have thought that gave the authorities a strong negotiating position, since a refusal to transfer the membership would have finished Sevco.

Amazingly, instead of complying with the authorities’ demands to accept any conclusions of the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry into dual contracts, Green simply refused. And what happened? The membership was transferred anyway, with Doncaster mumbling some platitudes about the SPL reserving its position on any sanctions.

Unbelievable! What hold does Green have over these people? And yet again- what is in the final version of the 5-way agreement that is so damning to the authorities that we can’t be allowed to see it? I understand that even the clubs haven’t seen it. Now that is simply beyond belief, and means that the likes of Longmuir, Regan and Doncaster don’t serve the clubs, they rule them.

There is something rotten at the heart of all this, and the 5-way agreement is the key to finding out what it is. Supporters Direct should be lobbying for this on our behalf. The fact that they don’t makes them complicit, and means that Scotland need a new supporters group which will actually hold the authorities to account.

Accountability and transparency are urgently needed in the authorities running our game. Didn’t Regan promise us both when he got the job? Before rejigging the league structure in Scotland, the SFA, SPL and SFL should all be subject to root and branch reform to make them fit for purpose. That will clearly mean showing the door to some prominent characters.

It is only when we have governing bodies that are properly fit for purpose that any attempt at restructuring the leagues should be proposed. Any restructuring by the current governing bodies would be tainted by suspicion of corruption and partiality- we’ve had enough of that already, thanks.

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slimshady61Posted on10:40 am - Nov 19, 2012


Palacio67
——————
You’ll find the link to the Jabba article behind your toilet seat – it’s shaped like an “S”. It’s also a handy link to most MSM comment on Scottish football.

Meantime for the uninitiated, the new company set up on Friday and known as “Rangers Football plc” is the envelope to be passed round the dumb bears and bearettes.

After that, its proceeds will be handed out to the real backers of Sevco to repay them their “non-bank” debt and the mugs – sorry, donors – will be left with a minority shareholding in a 4th tier Scottish football club.

What’s not to like?

View Comment

wottpiPosted on10:42 am - Nov 19, 2012


“Aberdeen had a chance to go top of the SPL so, of course, their supporters were going to turn out.”

No sh*t Sherlock!!!!!!!!

View Comment

saskya1888Posted on10:43 am - Nov 19, 2012


Could someone just give Jabba his ball back so that he can slink off back down his hole……

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:46 am - Nov 19, 2012


easyJambo says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:28

torrejohnbhoy says: Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:17

Why just “Rangers Football PLC”
No mention of a “club”
Could this PLC just be a holding company for a private limited company shortly to be launched on the AIM market?.
===========================================================
That would be my reading of it.
———————————————————————–
In theory then,
Could shares be sold in said PLC allowing Charlie and the boys to recover their investment plus a few bob “for their trouble”,leaving the Cardigan Consortium with control,albeit of a company and club strapped for cash but the toxic debt written off with deidco,
the plan of course then being to rebuild TRFC using prudent financial planning over the medium to long term.

I was doing well there until the last sentence 😆

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:57 am - Nov 19, 2012


slimshady61 says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:40

Palacio67
——————
You’ll find the link to the Jabba article behind your toilet seat – it’s shaped like an “S”. It’s also a handy link to most MSM comment on Scottish football.

Meantime for the uninitiated, the new company set up on Friday and known as “Rangers Football plc” is the envelope to be passed round the dumb bears and bearettes.

After that, its proceeds will be handed out to the real backers of Sevco to repay them their “non-bank” debt and the mugs – sorry, donors – will be left with a minority shareholding in a 4th tier Scottish football club.

What’s not to like-
————————————————————————————————————
Could said minority shareholders be left with a 4th tier Scottish Football Club still owing Ticketus a fortune?.

View Comment

tcup2012Posted on11:04 am - Nov 19, 2012


What i don’t understand is the amount of posts alluding to this so called 5 POINT AGREEMENT 🙁 as far as i was aware the only person to mention this agreement is CHARLES I ONLY TELL THE TRUTH GREEN
Yes i agree that there is definitely some under hand work at play I take every thing this man says with a BUCKET OF SALT!

View Comment

obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88)Posted on11:08 am - Nov 19, 2012


Oh Jabba. I suppose the fans will come rushing back if we gerrymander Sevco into the top flight. Have to laugh at his tirade against “self appointed experts”. Really Jim? From the man who believed that Craig Whyte was a billionaire?

Why doesn’t he just admit he is Sevco’s PR man and be done with it? Everyone knows he is anyway.

View Comment

ordinaryfanPosted on11:09 am - Nov 19, 2012


I’ve contacted my Club to tell them that if any further corruption of the league goes ahead I will be turning my back on Scottish football for good, and I mean every word.

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nickmcguinnessPosted on11:09 am - Nov 19, 2012


What an appalling journalist Traynor is. His piece is so badly written that it is painful to read.
And, boy, he just can’t hide his agenda or his petty jealousies.
“The SFL is great, the SPL is bad. If I say it often enough, it must be true.” That’s about the size of his argument, which is a naked attempt to favour the Sevco/Green cause.
Then there are his pathetic snipes at the SPL’s successes this season; grumping about packed stands and full houses because the fans “will go away again”.
Plus a nasty swipe at his BBC colleagues (Jim Spence, Richard Gordon, Stuart Cosgrove) for getting so excited about goals and entertaining matches.
My, my, my, all of this must really, really, be annoying that loathsome slug of a human being.
Isn’t it time that someone told Traynor he has now lost all credibility and is simply a joke figure to real fans of football?
Isn’t it time that BBC Scotland ditched this torn-faced toad?

View Comment

obonfanti88 (@obonfanti88)Posted on11:23 am - Nov 19, 2012


So Jabba loves the SFL now eh? Wonder why……

Does anyone remember what he said about them during the summer before the votes? Seems a pesky bampot on KDS does…….

“And hopefully the right and sensible decisions will be made when the SFL and SPL meet tomorrow and Wednesday respectively. Everything, the game’s fate and Rangers’ chances of survival never mind revival, depends on these leagues of gentlemen, if of course they do meet tomorrow. The situation is critical yet it seems we have two clubs threatening to block tomorrow’s meeting. Stenhousemuir and Alloa have an objection. God help us.

Pesky bampots.

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jimmyshandPosted on11:26 am - Nov 19, 2012


Jabba , if your lurking, this is real journalism:

Alex Thompson, Channel 4 News tweets: #c4news #gaza Oxfam: “World leaders cannot sit by while civilian casualties in Gaza and Israel continue to mount.” But they can.

View Comment

SquigglePosted on11:30 am - Nov 19, 2012


Through all of this its something that whilst I don’t think too much about, when I do, I struggle. Jabba. When I first became aware of him twenty odd years ago, I knew that he’d been a below standard player with a club known to be an overspill of that place, but many people were. Whilst at university as the celtic old board tragedy and scandal were unfolding I remember being at a GUUCSC thing when a younger Jabba spoke with Keevins about the bad thing that celtic were – as supporters, both of them! I think since then that Keevins has just become bitter anti-celtic ( I had heard McCann turfed him out one day ), but Jabba is actually a clown, a full on Coco. I can’t get what it is, is he anti-celtic? pro-everyone else? pro-deadthing, pro-ally? ( I do know for a fact that they were junior lady hunters together!), or is he just a journalisticrubber necker – can he not exercise any judgement ‘cos he’s basically too enthralled by the carnage and how nice the flames are? Whatever he is, he is a clown.

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tommythehatPosted on12:01 pm - Nov 19, 2012


neepheid says:

Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:36
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Ahh, fine start to the day – nothing like an off-shift lazy day – Yes neepheid, thanks for that – and i accept the role of the SPL board, It’s always nice to be put right! But i’d much rather that than be blinkered, so correction appreciated.

I assumed something of different scenario in the SPL and SFL votes for Sevco – I know the SPL board were accused of such at the time – but reading through those Clyde statements and what you say, I get it – and Eric Riley’s role in this does indeed stink – as do those others.

Every one of them should have resigned from the SPL board.

The Clyde statements really are quite something – I read them and I can only offer apologies to bunion and anyone else concerned for absolving the SPL board of skullduggery – not so much as my, admittedly, worsening memory but more along the lines of simply not listening to what folk were saying but I stand humbly corrected.

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TheBlackKnight TBKPosted on12:09 pm - Nov 19, 2012


I’m sure everyone is deliberately overlooking the real corker here…….

“RANGERS FOOTBALL PLC”
Registered: 16th November 2012
Company Number: 437060
SIC Activity code: NONE

It is not ,,,,,

Rangers Football “CLUB” Plc or RFC 2012 PLC (in liquidation)
Registration Date: 27/05/1899
Registration Number: SC004276
SIC Activity code: 93120 – Activities of sport clubs

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/dcbba4b60d8d07e66342c782e300266b/compdetails

NOTE THE OMISSION OF CLUB 😉

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essexbeancounterPosted on12:10 pm - Nov 19, 2012


jimmyshand says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 11:26
5 3 i
Rate This
Jabba , if your lurking, this is real journalism:

Alex Thompson, Channel 4 News tweets: #c4news #gaza Oxfam: “World leaders cannot sit by while civilian casualties in Gaza and Israel continue to mount.” But they can.
========================================================================

….and do….with tragic consequences for all to see…!

As Hugh McIlvanney (remember him, he was a real journalist/writer)once said…”it is only a game…”

…AT putting matters in their correct context…..!

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redlichtiePosted on12:18 pm - Nov 19, 2012


wottpi says:
Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:42

“Aberdeen had a chance to go top of the SPL so, of course, their supporters were going to turn out.”

No sh*t Sherlock!!!!!!!!

————————————————————————————-

Crikey, this must be the Armageddon we heard was coming…..

A competitive league; exciting, unpredictable games; average SPL crowds largely up; international recognition for players from St Johnstone and ICT; Celtic progressing in Europe despite having to combat one of the best teams in the world.

And a report in today’s Aberdeen Press & Journal with the local police praising the two sets of fans for their behaviour. Only one arrest for minor disorder.

Heck, Dundee have even managed to win more than one game!

Not sure how much more of this disaster of a season I can take….

“None so blind as those that will not see.”

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corsicacharityPosted on12:20 pm - Nov 19, 2012


madbhoy24941 on Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:15
******
Don’t disagree withh general point but my point (as others have alluded to) was that his two-faced stupidity and level of argument are so infantile as to beggar belief that anyone would employ him seriously as a journalist.

Any fool could simply spout any old rubbish to get a reaction and I cannot see anything on the DR website which suggests that that is Traynor’s job…quite the opposite in fact.

His latest article does not get people talking, thinking or debating. It promotes one of two reactions: anger or laughing at his stupidity. Its on a par with the Sunday Sport. That’s all.

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corsicacharityPosted on12:26 pm - Nov 19, 2012


madbhoy24941 on Monday, November 19, 2012 at 10:15
******
Don’t disagree withh general point but my point (as others have alluded to) was that his two-faced stupidity and level of argument are so infantile as to beggar belief that anyone would employ him seriously as a journalist.

Any fool could simply spout any old rubbish to get a reaction and I cannot see anything on the DR website which suggests that that is Traynor’s job…quite the opposite in fact.

His latest article does not get people talking, thinking or debating. It promotes one of two reactions: anger or laughing at his stupidity. Its on a par with the Sunday Sport…which is a pretty sad indictment for any journalist and leads me to suspect that this is either a very sad and unfulfilled person or someone so full of themselves that they cannot see themselves ever bring wrong.

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goosyPosted on12:31 pm - Nov 19, 2012


Given that most clubs apart from CFC got humped regularly by RFC before they died I can`t fathom why any fan would mourn their departure from the SPL. They certainly don`t miss the sectarian bile?
Nope
The only beneficiaries from a newco Sevco in the DPL would be Sevco themselves

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timtimPosted on12:33 pm - Nov 19, 2012


corsicacharity says:
Its on a par with the Sunday Sport
—————–

The Daily Record has bigger tits tho

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ordinaryfanPosted on12:34 pm - Nov 19, 2012


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/craig-burley-column-sfl-minnows-1194037

Craig Burley 8th July:

HAS it really come to this? The future of Scottish football placed in the hands of a few nonentities from the lower divisions.

Muppets in charge of clubs that draw embarrassing crowds of 200 people suddenly standing as judge and jury over a decision that could cost the country millions of pounds in lost revenue.

Chairmen of part-time teams who are nothing more than afterthoughts in the psyche of our national obsession, yet suddenly they have been handed the most important decision in the history of Scottish football.

Hmmm………..I wonder what Burley’s opinion is on the SFL reconstruction plans are????

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tilhotdogsbarkPosted on12:52 pm - Nov 19, 2012


corsicacharity says:

Monday, November 19, 2012 at 12:26

———————————————————————————-
Jim Traynor has developed into the most arrogant, self opinionated sports journalist in the country, and this has been achieved in the face of stiff competition. The way he treats his colleagues and football fans who contact him on his phone in show is despicable. He has now rid himself of any obligation to appear impartial and has become so polarised that his ability to see reason has been lost. In my opinion this is not an attempt to encourage debate and increase the circulation of his newspaper, it is a genuine display of his contempt for anyone who is opposed to his way of thinking.

There have been, and still are, a number of “shock jocks” who have used deliberately controversial articles and/or comments to stimulate outrage and reaction, but even if you bit, you just knew they were at it; Traynor is not “at it”- he is simply blinded by his partiality.

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tommythehatPosted on1:01 pm - Nov 19, 2012


Is it just me, or have the the comments feature re Jim Traynor’s ‘article’ been disabled?? I wonder why…

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