Over the past couple of years, we have built a healthy, vibrant and influential community which recognises the need to counter the corporate propaganda spouted by the mainstream media on behalf of the football authorities.
The media have, not entirely but in the main, been hostage to the patronage of those in charge of the club/media links, and to the narrow demographic of their readership. Despite a continuing rejection of the media’s position by that readership (in terms of year on year slump in sales) there is an obstinate refusal to see what is by now inevitable – the death of the print media. The lamb metaphor in fact ironically moving to the slaughter.
The football authorities in Scotland, once the country that gave the world the beautiful game, are rigid with fear that their own world will fall apart – because they are wedded to the idea that only one football match actually matters. To that end they will do whatever it takes to ensure that it continues. They have long since dispensed with the notion that football is an interdependent industry, and incredibly, even those who are not participants in that match follow like sheep towards the abattoir.
The argument is no longer that one club cheated and got away with it. The debate that we need to have is one about what is paramount in the eyes of the clubs and the media . Is it the inegrity of sporting endeavour, or box-office?
For out part, independent sites like this have accelerated the print media’s demise, and there have been temporary successes in persuading the clubs to uphold the spirit of sport. However our role has up to now been to cast a spotlight on the inaccuracies, inconsistencies and downright lies that routinely pass for news. News that is imagined up by PR agencies and dutifully copied by the lazy pretend-journalists who betray no thought whatsoever during the process.
Despite our successes, it really is not enough. We have the means at our disposal to do more, but do more we need to change ourselves, because the authorities sure as hell aren’t gonna.
We need to provide meaningful insight into the game that removes the Old Firm prism from the light path. We need to provide news that has covered all of the angles. We need to entertain, inform and energise fans of sport and all clubs.
We need to do that from a wholly independent perspective. None of this refusing to tell the truth about club allegiances. There is no reason why intelligent men and women can’t be objective in spite of their own allegiances (although the corollary absolutely holds true). Our experience of the MSM in this country is that the lack of arms-length principles in the media has corrupted it to such an extent that they barely recognise truth and objectivity. We need to be firm on those arms-length principles.
In order to do that we have put together a plan (with enough room to manoeuvre if required) as follows;
We will rebrand and re-launch as the Independent Sports Monitor. We have acquired the domains isMonitor.co.uk and IndependentSportsMonitor.co.uk, and those will be the main urls after the re-launch, hopefully later in the summer.
The change in name reflects the reality of our current debate which is not always confined to Scotland or football. It will also give us the option in future of applying the success of our model to other sports and jurisdictions through partner sites and blogs. This should also help in our efforts to raise funds in the future. However any expansion outwith the domain of Scottish football is some time away, and will depend on the success we have with the core model.
Our mission statement will be;
- ISM will seek to build a community of sports fans whose overarching aim is the integrity of competition in the sport.
- ISM will, without favour, seek to find objective truths on the conduct and administration of sport. We will avoid building relationships with individuals or organisations which would bring us into conflict with that.
- ISM will provide a platform for the views of ALL fans, and guarantee that those views will be heard in a mutually respectful environment.
- ISM will also endeavour to inform and entertain members on a wide range of topics related to our shared love of sport.
- ISM will seek to represent the views of sports fans to sporting authorities and hold the authorities to account.
We have estimated our (modest) costs to expand our role as per recent discussions. The expanded role will take the form of a new Internet Radio Channel where we hope to provide 24/7 content by the end of the year. It will also see a greater news role where we will engage directly with clubs and authorities to seek answers to our questions directly. And we will seek to contact the best fan sites across Scotland with a view to showcasing their content.
We have identified individuals who we want to work (initially on a part time basis) towards our objectives, we have identified premises where we want to conduct our business, and we hope to move into those premises during this summer.
To finance these plans there are a couple of stages;
- Initially (as soon as possible) we need to pay accommodation and hosting costs for the first year. To do so, we hope to appeal to the community itself. Our aim is to raise around £5000 by the end of August.
- There are salary costs (around £15,000) attached to our first year plan, but these have been underwritten by Big Pink, and equipment costs (est. £3000). These will be reimbursed if the advertising campaign we recently started bears any fruit (we will not know about that for a few months).
- It will not be too discouraging if we make losses in the first couple of years, so if necessary we will seek crowd-funding to finance our plans if the resources of the community itself prove inadequate to smooth a path to break-even point.
Our first year may be a perilous hand-to-mouth existence, but I am certain the journey will be an exciting and enjoyable one. We will also need to search our community resources for contacts at clubs; players, officials, ex-players, local journalists etc. Please get in touch if you have any in at your club.
We also hope to tap into the expertise of our community for advice, comment and analysis of developments, and we will be looking for any aspiring presenters, journalists, sound and video editors, graphic designers (and lots of others) to help us find our feet. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully accepted.
We mustn’t lose sight of why we are doing this. It is because we love our sport, because we want to be able to continue to call it that, and because the disconnect we find in Scottish football, that of the conflicting interests of the fans and the money men, will never be addressed as long as the fans are hopelessly split.
The ultimate goal is to allow sport – not our individual clubs – to triumph over the greed and corporate troglodyte-ism of those people who run it. I am confident that we as a community desperately want to be able to make a difference. That is why I am confident we can achieve our aim of becoming a significant player in the game.
Whitabootery alert sectarianism – was the dissolution of the monasteries not a wee bit sectarian?
The report by the Mirror which owes quite a lot to the local Rotheram blat is a minor masterpiece of euphemism referring to Ayrshire cultures. As my old Presbyterian colleague used to ask the theologically unformed when the said they were Protestant -What is it you are protesting about?
Given, that as you accept, the rules were changed after the series, I stand by the comparison.
The larger point, is that sooner or later, people are going to have to start leaving their respective bunkers, if they are serious about creating meaningful change.
I’d like all those who served on the boards banned sine die, but that isn’t going to happen either.
The choice is between growing old & bitter in our righteousness, or working to build bridges and effect change.
One of the key foundations of a “Truth & Reconciliation” process, is the building of a no blame culture around the process.
“As my old Presbyterian colleague used to ask the theologically unformed when the said they were Protestant -What is it you are protesting about?”
Whadda you got?
blu says:
Member: (204 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Re. tapping-up and applying the rules and in the interest of balance.
Is the Rangers/Scott Allan situation any different to the Ronny Deila/Gary MacKay- Steven situation in the January window?
=========================
The rules should apply equally to all.
RyanGoslingRyanGosling says:
Member: (192 comments)
July 23, 2015 at 11:41 pm
I find it quite uncomfortable that given the purposes of this blog, and the attitudes towards the likes of Amazon advertising due to tax avoidance, that many posters tonight have been advocating the use of illegal streams of live…
————
I certainly posted a few steps to access a Romanian TV channel, that was broadcasting the match, via the Kodi open source software platform. Since you’ve accused (me, among others, presumably) of ‘advocating’ the use of illegal streams I really think you should explain yourself. I’m not sure how or why that web stream was illegal.
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1321 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 2:49 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3021321/Pub-landlord-wins-eight-year-battle-overturn-conviction-showing-football-foreign-channels.html
Pub landlord wins eight-year battle to overturn conviction for showing Premier League matches on foreign channels instead of paying for Sky.
Landlord was convicted and fined for showing Albanian footage of games
But landmark European Court ruling has since ended such prosecutions
Landlord has now had convicted overturned but has since lost his pub
Premier League still taking landlords to civil court using copyrights laws
By RICHARD SPILLETT FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 12:39, 1 April 2015 | UPDATED: 15:21, 1 April 2015
Continues …
John Clark says: Member: (1022 comments) July 23, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Finloch says: Member: (58 comments) July 23, 2015 at 11:07 am
‘….That inevitably means we have to be more inclusive and have lines of communication with people we currently see as les bêtes noirs.’
_____
With the utmost respect,I tend to disagree on that , forgive me, ‘appeasement’ attitude.
The baddies must be made to confess their wrongdoing, and then undo the wrongdoing.
Only then will it be possible for this blog (in my opinion) to be ‘inclusive’.
There can be no ‘moving on’ if it means somehow accepting that a new club is the old club, or that that old club’s cheating is or could ever be acceptable, or that the football authorities should not be damned for their craven 5Way agreement.
The evil perpetrated by the baddies cannot be lightly airbrushed out of existence.
Men with bad motivation did bad things.
They simply must be held to account.
……………………………………………………………
Thanks John I don’t disagree with your desire to get an acknowledgement and an apology and a few sackings too – and like Jimbo said what goes around has a habit of coming around.
I wasn’t advocating any kind of appeasement – just saying I think we will legitimise what we do more in the future when we have press recognition if we have a policy of speaking to both sides of any and every situation.
As for Les Betes Noirs…
My old dad would have said of them and their doings
– “It won’t bring them any luck”.
We could have a blacklist of those we think are guilty and complicit going forward but for me this site has the latent potential top be bigger than it is and to represent all Scottish fans and factions honestly.
To bring integrity and balance.
We need to get to a place where we can ask questions of all including any baddies that are left and make our own minds up.
Scottish Football needs honest brokers.
I have a bunch of questions I’d like to start with but that is for another day.
It’s interesting to see how the Main Stream Media and Football authorities in England and Scotland see certain things so differently and report on them so differently.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jul/24/daily-record-sanitises-story-of-player-banned-for-sectarian-tirade#comment-56320479
Daily Record sanitises story of player banned for sectarian tirade
Roy Greenslade
—————————————————————–
And from the Evening times
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/13498191.Campaigners__Broadfoot_s_record_ban_for_sectarianism_exposes_weak_will_of_Scots_football_beaks/
Campaigners: Broadfoot’s record ban for sectarianism exposes weak will of Scots football beaks
The continuous review of the SMSM output is, IMO, a real strength of this blog.
Over time we have made reasonable assertions about the bias, PR copy/pasting, or non-reporting in the print media, radio and on TV wrt Scottish football.
The purveyors of this nonsense, aka sports journalists, have their own motivations and/or agendas for spewing out their misinformation. Fine, that’s their choice, [well the publicly-funded BBC is another story, but I’ll leave that for John Clark(e). 😉 ]
But now that the Bampots are routinely analysing/critiquing, and comparing the SMSM current output, [& with historical output], we can clearly see how poor the SMSM coverage of Scottish football has been. And it is STILL not improving.
And, IMO, that is the huge gap that sites like this can fill for the long-term.
The SFM site already has an advantage over the SMSM in terms of credibility and sources of info. [TRFC fans may suggest otherwise.]
And I think most Bampots here don’t buy papers, or certainly don’t buy them for their football coverage. There is a much bigger market to be taken from the print media and beyond, by providing reliable, accurate, and full reporting and analyses on all aspects of Scottish football.
And like the car replacing the horse, it’s inevitable that eventually digital will replace newspapers.
Currently, IMO, the SFM does have a distinct advantage in this medium over the sports sections of the likes of the laughable DR, The Herald/Evening Times, The Scotsman etc.
One challenge though is how to convert the consumers who are steadily drifting away from buying these rags at the newsagents into SFM consumers – and contributors.
Homunculus says:
Member: (139 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 4:41 pm
And this is the twitter response from the Record to Roy Greenslade’s piece! I bet Roy is hiding his face in a corner, so embarrassed is he by this marvellous retort from this leading purveyor of pap!
“The Daily RecordVerified account
@Daily_Record .@GdnScotland And unlike @GreensladeR our story gets names right! Who is Kirkwood?”
Greenslade had given Kirk Broadwood’s name as ‘Kirkwood’, which, in the world of churnalism is much worse than missing out the main point of a story!
In all honesty, petty doesn’t begin to describe this response!
Allyjambo says:
Member: (1107 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 5:21 pm
The Daily Record @Daily_Record
.@GdnScotland @GreensladeR Where is the proof that the tirade was sectarian? And if it was sectarian, why isn’t that word in YOUR story?
Maybe they should ask their “sister” paper in England where “sectarian” comes from, as that is the version he is comparing the Daily Record with.
Homunculus says:
Member: (140 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 5:25 pm
Allyjambo says:
Member: (1107 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 5:21 pm
The Daily Record @Daily_Record
.@GdnScotland @GreensladeR Where is the proof that the tirade was sectarian? And if it was sectarian, why isn’t that word in YOUR story?
Maybe they should ask their “sister” paper in England where “sectarian” comes from, as that is the version he is comparing the Daily Record with.
________________________
See what happens when you bring your ten year old kid into work on their school holidays and leave them playing on your computer! Note to DR ‘journalists’, remember to log off before allowing your kids to play on your laptop!
Yakutsuki [24 July 2015, 9:13am] says
____
Good Afternoon
Thanks for mentioning my piece about the differences in the Mirror and Record coverage of the Broadfoot story.
I am greatly enjoying the ‘spat’ between The Record and the Guardian/Roy Greenslade over this.
Not least because Prof Greenslade gave a certain veteran Bampot a hat-tip at the end of his piece…
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jul/24/daily-record-sanitises-story-of-player-banned-for-sectarian-tirade
And my original piece can be found here:
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/
Have a good evening
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1321 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 2:49 pm
This is the position as I understand it, addresses the streaming of Premier League matches.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/streaming-live-football-matches-online.htm
From STV online;
“A football fan who died at the age of 93 has left more than £100,000 to the group which helped save his club from going bust.
The man, who has not been named, left a bequest of £108,725 to the Foundation of Hearts after his death last year which will in turn be passed to Heart of Midlothian…”
=============================
Mibbees Dave King could launch a charm offensive, and start trawling the old folks’ homes in the West of Scotland for some much needed ‘overinvestment’ ?
A deid club looking for some deid money ?
Just a tasteless suggestion… 🙄
I believe the position for individuals with regard watching football streams is that it is effectively a potential breech of copyright.
In essence it is no different from downloading an MP3 file, photocopying the pages of a book, making a copy of a cd you have bought for your own use (including putting it onto an MP3 player of iPod).
So if someone is going to try to sue me for watching a game of football which it was impossible for me to pay for in the UK then this is an issue. The same people may consider doing the same to a load of people who own iPods and put their music collection, which they had paid for, onto them.
Homunculus says: July 24, 2015 at 6:09 pm
I believe the position for individuals with regard watching football streams is that it is effectively a potential breech of copyright.
In essence it is no different from downloading an MP3 file, photocopying the pages of a book, making a copy of a cd you have bought for your own use (including putting it onto an MP3 player of iPod).
==========================
Your analogy would only be correct if I downloaded and saved the video file.
The general guidance is that it is illegal to stream a game, but not illegal to watch it. Where customers in a pub have watched an illegal stream e.g. a Sky broadcast without the “pint glass”, no action is ever taken against the customers, although the publican has been charged.
I believe that it would be almost impossible to prosecute a customer, who could argue he was just having a pint and the game was on.
Similarly, if I did an internet search for information about tomorrow’s Hibs v Rangers game while the game was in progress and the search results gave me a link to a live stream which I then watched, then I could argue that I came across the stream by accident and there was nothing on the website to say that it was illegal to watch it.
How many illegally copyrighted videos are freely available on Youtube. Would you be able to tell with any certainty what was legal and what was not?
Warburton said at his pre-match media conference: “My job is in the football department, out there on the grass, managing the players and the group of staff around the players, and working with the academy. That’s my job.
“It’s not me avoiding the question, that’s what I have to do, I’m paid to do that job. The other work, the more difficult stuff, is handled by the powers that be.
————–
Does anyone know what question he was asked?
—————
The last time another manager at ibrox. Was here to just talk about the football. When asked a non football question stormed out.
Was it a hard question? and can i shake this Journalist’s hand
Cluster One says:
July 24, 2015 at 7:18 pm
One of the RFC fan reps is excited about Alasdair Lamont questioning the tactics behind the Scott Allan bid, with respect to unsettling the club & the player before a big game. Cue outrage
easyJambo says:
July 24, 2015 at 6:58 pm
I think you are really supporting my own thoughts on the matter.
People breech copyright law all of the time, for the most part little or nothing is done about it.
However if anyone does it for commercial gain, for example copying CDs and selling them, that is a whole different thing.
The authorities are more likely to try to act against a specific website, or pub, rather than try to do anything about the “customer”.
What’s happened to the TU & TD?
jimbo says:
July 24, 2015 at 8:02 pm
What’s happened to the TU & TD?
================
Consigned to the dustbin of history???
yakutsuki says:
July 24, 2015 at 9:13 am
Re the Broadfoot affair, the latest post frfom ‘The Clumpany’ highlights the difference between the Mirror in England and her sister ‘newspaper’ in Scotland, the Record.
Seems the Record are refusing to use the ‘S’ word and Broadfoot only ‘Verbally abused’ the guy. Desperate days indeed!
……………………………………………….
Hard as it may be to believe……….
But
If you look round some of the TFC websites or listen briefly (in between the tourettes) on TRFC webcasts you will quickly realise they are heavily populated by members of a victim cult. They may not represent the bulk of TRFC fans but they certainly claim to speak for them
IMO
All the DR is doing is acknowledging that all Scottish football related content needs to be viewed from this victim standpoint and sanitised to avoid an angry reaction
Its got nothing to do with reporting facts telling the truth or upholding the standards of journalism
I stopped buying this rag over 50yrs ago
Nowadays I don’t even look the headlines in ASDA
It targets what they think maintains readership
And they are welcome to it
scapaflow says:
July 24, 2015 at 7:31 pm
——Thanks for reply
Cluster One says:
July 24, 2015 at 8:14 pm
No probs, I think that’s what Warburton was referring to. Fair play to the guy, he’s got enough on his plate with the on field stuff, without taking on the rest
EDIT
Meant to add the DR had a huge overnight shift in allegiance in 1964, so there is a precedent 🙂
GoosyGoosy says:
July 24, 2015 at 8:13 pm
The Record’s paid subscriptions dropped by 11% in the year to March 2015. It will be interesting to see how it adapts to the new realities on the ground, as its old allegiances are no longer so closely aligned with its target audience’s. In audition to the challenges it faces from New Media.
We live in very interesting times
RyanGosling says:
July 24, 2015 at 5:57 pm
This is the position as I understand it, addresses the streaming of Premier League matches.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/streaming-live-football-matches-online.htm
————
This highlights exactly why the SPFL needs to seriously sort out the value of its digital rights.
Now if I watch Chinese TV broadcasting Hibs v The Rangers Petrofac Cup tomorrow that’s not illegal since those rights have been given away to a company that is now selling the rights on with very little extra return to Scottish football. If that stream is available via Chinese LeTV, that’s hard cheese for the SPFL since they’ve given away the rights to a middle man.
You can actually access lots of international TV streams via the FilmOn app straight from your smartphone or tablet. I’ve watched Wimbledon, F1 on my tablet and telly and currently Le Tour on ITV4. FilmOn is an app freely downloadable from the App Store.
The Romanian broadcast of Astra v ICT was online. Someone has the rights and the stream is not coded in a way that hinders non-Romanians viewing it.
The whole thing is an eye-opener and illustrates the current mess of digital rights. Check out http://storesatellite.com/iptv/35-iptv-packages and what they offer contra price compared to Sky,
Far from advocating illegal streams, I think we should be agitating for an SPFL app that streams Scottish football via a subscription based system that puts money back into our national game. Currently, a rights package has been sold off for 10 years. The middle men and can wheel and deal with those rights as they wish. That appears to be why the Chinese deal, while giving some exposure, is not exactly bringing new money in, and if the LeTV coverage can be streamed live anywhere, why not watch it?
Following on from the ‘tapping up’ queries earlier wrt Scott Allan…
We now have the bold Barry Ferguson putting his name to a lengthy article in the DR, and as per, no mention whatsoever of his own club Clyde, as it’s all about The Rangers.
With his name on the article, he is quoted;
“…Everyone knows Allan is a Rangers fan. It’s no secret. Now he’s apparently ready to tell Hibs he wants to go. It puts the Edinburgh club in a total jam…”
It’s one thing for a journalist to print unsubstantiated speculation – but what about the manager of an SPFL club making comments about 2 other clubs ?
And just how does Ferguson ‘know’ that Allan is ready to tell Hibs he wants to go ?
Should an SPFL Manager not be careful about what is printed under his name in the SMSM – and especially when he is commenting on other clubs’ contracted players ?
Is this not deserving of a disrepute charge from the SFA ? [I know…]
Ferguson needs to wind his neck back in, IMO… 🙄
I suppose Barry Ferguson not only did not write but did not read his own opinions.
One would hope that what he is doing can not get Clyde into bother.
His extra curricular activities go too far and should cease so that all his attention is on getting Clyde back where we belong.
Gtaham Spiers is now teasing his Times piece for tomorrow with
“An unwilling conscript is a nightmare for any club…. this could get painful for Hibs”
The volume appears to be stuck at Level 5, someone really aught to turn it down, for the sake of all our lugs
bfbpuzzled says:
July 24, 2015 at 9:38 pm
I suppose Barry Ferguson not only did not write but did not read his own opinions.
One would hope that what he is doing can not get Clyde into bother.
His extra curricular activities go too far and should cease so that all his attention is on getting Clyde back where we belong.
=================
Sorry but they should just give the lad his jotters and get a manager in that is focused on furthering Clyde and no other agenda. Simple as.
====================
scapaflow says:
July 24, 2015 at 10:27 pm
Gtaham Spiers is now teasing his Times piece for tomorrow with
“An unwilling conscript is a nightmare for any club…. this could get painful for Hibs”
The volume appears to be stuck at Level 5, someone really aught to turn it down, for the sake of all our lugs
===================
As with the above I’ve no idea why Hibs would site back and allow this sort of nonsense to go on with no response. They should call a press conference and absolutely go through these “journalist” pushed agendas and the behaviour of TRFC.
They should demand TRFC pay £1m up front, now, or simply go away and stop agitating their players. Make it quite clear you are no doubt this is all paid for PR as well.
What the hell, call out all these “journalists” for what they are at the same time.
Why not? What can they lose?
At worst their fans will rally round and a siege mentality may help them this year..
Maybe Alex Ferguson had it right when Afc manager and he firmly nailed the Glasgow press and regularly used their words to encourage his players to ram home a victory whenever possible.
What is it that now makes most of our clubs so supine in the face of constant provacation?
I wouldn`t be a bit surprised if Hibs and Celtic have informally agreed a deal to buy Scott Allan at the Xmas window at a price well in excess of the maximum bid received in the current window
Matty Roth says:
July 24, 2015 at 10:57 pm
I jokingly suggested a while back, that the only way Rangers could progress on the field, would be if the other clubs in the league were levied for players to be “gifted” to Rangers.
It seems the media is actually trying it on.
Joking aside, this is beyond tapping up, and looks like an orchestrated attempt to bully Hibs. This unprofessional behaviour is embarrassing for Hibs, the player, Scottish Football as a whole, and also for Rangers.
The compliance officer should be involved, but of course, the Professional Game Board will sit on their hands as usual.
If true, the quotes attributed to Barry Ferguson are a disgrace to football management and bring shame to Clyde, I’m afraid. It was bad enough watching this orchestrated manoeuvre from the sidelines without seeing my club getting involved. I’m not sure it breaks any rules but it’s bloody well wrong!
It looks like the Ibrox club have PR involved to get journalists, pundits and, now, the Clyde manager to do the tapping up that they can’t do directly. Proxy Bears, if you will. It’s quite tragic. Is this what Mark Hateley was on the payroll of the original RFC to do after he quit playing? Who’s the agent that should be protecting his client and is he another placeman?
I note Reporting Scotland mentioned how many season tickets had been sold (not a common inclusion in reports) before showing a clip of a fan describing the entertaining play he enjoyed for ten minutes of a pre-season friendly. Almost subliminal advertising on the BBC. I hope Mr Cosgrove is back tomorrow to sort this out. I switched the radio off when I heard Chick Young after the 12 o’clock news last Saturday. Without realising, I also unplugged it!
bfbpuzzled says:
July 24, 2015 at 9:38 pm
His extra curricular activities go too far and should cease so that all his attention is on getting Clyde back where we belong.
———————————————-
Why do Clyde have a place where they “belong”.
I have never understood the notion of a football club having a place where they belong.
If it’s the SPFL then Clyde are already in that league. If it’s a particular division within the league than what are the criteria for making that the division in which they belong.
I’m not specifically having a go at Clyde here, just the whole notion of “where we belong”.
I was hoping bfbpuzzled wasn’t serious with the “back where we belong”. Usually, if any fan has any doubt about where their team “belongs” a look at the league tables clarifies it. Personally, I feel there’s one exception to that but it’s a well worn path (and one that JC may be about to tread – he’s usually free about now 😆 )
neepheid on July 24, 2015 at 8:05 pm
jimbo says:
July 24, 2015 at 8:02 pm
What’s happened to the TU & TD?
================
Consigned to the dustbin of history???
==========
The thumbs up got the thumbs down.
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1321 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 2:49 pm
This is the position as I understand it, addresses the streaming of Premier League matches.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/streaming-live-football-matches-online.htm
——————
Nail/head interface. That being said (preferably in a David Brent accent), it beggars belief that anyone needed to have such a straightforward issue explained to them. Admittedly, in many cases the Internet can warp people’s pre-existing ideas about what is and is not legal (not to mention moral; which raises all kinds of question that we thankfully do not have to wrangle with in this instance).
One stark example should clear up all this faux-naive “it was just a wee app and the stream came from Estonia and…” nonsense. Celtic TV charges a set fee to those who wish to watch their coverage of Celtic games via the club’s website/streaming set-up. That fee goes directly to the club and funds, among other things, the football part of the whole operation.
For the last several years it has been possible to watch the Celtic TV stream from any number of web-based, advertising-heavy cowboy outfits that are capable of receiving and rebroadcasting the official coverage for their own use. If you use these streams you’re depriving Celtic of revenue, pure and simple. And you’d have to be very simple indeed to offer the defence that the stream looked legit.
Of course, while we might have second thoughts about viewing illegal Celtic streams: as well as affecting the club’s less-than-spectacular revenue, they might make Celtic-minded users think twice about whether depriving the club of cash puts them in a tricky situation when it comes to criticising Celtic’s spending.
Of course, the picture gets extremely gray when you start talking about streams from the EPL, and Europe’s other super-wealthy leagues. These streams are still illegal, but the victims of the crime are not dear to our hearts, and seem far enough removed that there tends to be no immediate sense of guilt.
This is all just a relatively new twist on what happened some time ago to the film, music and TV industries. (Book publishing has begun to feel the effects over the last few years) The genie is out the bottle, and revenues continue to fall, across the board. No-one has any idea how it’s all going to pan out, who’ll be able to come up with new, viable business models under these conditions, or how long those models will remain viable. I’m not sure what the level of awareness is in football, or how much money is being lost; but I remember reading a Wall Street Journal article a couple of years ago about the panic this stuff was causing at the highest levels of professional sport in the US.
The quality of these streams–yes, I’ve watched them–is pretty risible, with “screen” sizes that are smaller than current cell-phones, so it will probably be a long time before your mainstream consumer of, say, Sky Sports ditches his or her subscription. But there a lot of football “addicts” who’ll be perfectly happy with the existing format, and–more importantly–the phenomenal range of gratis offerings available.
I’m sure there are several folk on here who know exactly what percentage of their revenue Celtic (and other Scottish clubs) get from their own TV operations. I suspect that the figures will be significantly lower than the money brought in by season-book sales and merchandise; and who knows, even the SPL’s half-baked TV deal might be a more significant earner. Which is all to say, we have probably got a lot less to worry about than Europe’s TV-dependent elite; if indeed they’re worried at all. We live in interesting times–even if the ever-shrinking number of teams with a genuine chance of winning the CL might suggest otherwise.
If true, the quotes attributed to Barry Ferguson are a disgrace to football management and bring shame to Clyde
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However that is not strictly true, is Barry Ferguson speaking as an individual, an ex-captain of rangers or is his voice determined to be that of the clyde manager?
This is hugely important, if it is the latter then yes he should be gagged and told not to give such provocative statements. However if it is the former, Barry Ferguson – the z-listed celebrity- speaking from the heart then he has every right to free speech and I don’t believe there would be anyone on the forum that would deny him that right.
Nail/head interface. That being said (preferably in a David Brent accent), it beggars belief that anyone needed to have such a straightforward issue explained to them
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that unfortunately is one of the drawbacks of the internet people believe that everything online should be free! Especially knowledge!
What’s more they go to extraordinaire lengths to justify their theft of others intellectual property … but that is just the times we live in. (I remember recording the top 20 countdown on a Sunday on my cassette recorder, I didn’t consider myself a thief but if Trex and Slade ever get hold of me they might have a different perspective.)
Steveplustax says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:48 am
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1321 comments)
July 24, 2015 at 2:49 pm
This is the position as I understand it, addresses the streaming of Premier League matches.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/streaming-live-football-matches-online.htm
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Nail/head interface. That being said (preferably in a David Brent accent), it beggars belief that anyone needed to have such a straightforward issue explained to them. Admittedly, in many cases the Internet can warp people’s pre-existing ideas about what is and is not legal (not to mention moral; which raises all kinds of question that we thankfully do not have to wrangle with in this instance).
One stark example should clear up all this faux-naive “it was just a wee app and the stream came from Estonia and…” nonsense. Celtic TV charges a set fee to those who wish to watch their coverage of Celtic games via the club’s website/streaming set-up. That fee goes directly to the club and funds, among other things, the football part of the whole operation.
For the last several years it has been possible to watch the Celtic TV stream from any number of web-based, advertising-heavy cowboy outfits that are capable of receiving and rebroadcasting the official coverage for their own use. If you use these streams you’re depriving Celtic of revenue, pure and simple. And you’d have to be very simple indeed to offer the defence that the stream looked legit.
Of course, while we might have second thoughts about viewing illegal Celtic streams: as well as affecting the club’s less-than-spectacular revenue, they might make Celtic-minded users think twice about whether depriving the club of cash puts them in a tricky situation when it comes to criticising Celtic’s spending.
Of course, the picture gets extremely gray when you start talking about streams from the EPL, and Europe’s other super-wealthy leagues. These streams are still illegal, but the victims of the crime are not dear to our hearts, and seem far enough removed that there tends to be no immediate sense of guilt.
This is all just a relatively new twist on what happened some time ago to the film, music and TV industries. (Book publishing has begun to feel the effects over the last few years) The genie is out the bottle, and revenues continue to fall, across the board. No-one has any idea how it’s all going to pan out, who’ll be able to come up with new, viable business models under these conditions, or how long those models will remain viable. I’m not sure what the level of awareness is in football, or how much money is being lost; but I remember reading a Wall Street Journal article a couple of years ago about the panic this stuff was causing at the highest levels of professional sport in the US.
The quality of these streams–yes, I’ve watched them–is pretty risible, with “screen” sizes that are smaller than current cell-phones, so it will probably be a long time before your mainstream consumer of, say, Sky Sports ditches his or her subscription. But there a lot of football “addicts” who’ll be perfectly happy with the existing format, and–more importantly–the phenomenal range of gratis offerings available.
I’m sure there are several folk on here who know exactly what percentage of their revenue Celtic (and other Scottish clubs) get from their own TV operations. I suspect that the figures will be significantly lower than the money brought in by season-book sales and merchandise; and who knows, even the SPL’s half-baked TV deal might be a more significant earner. Which is all to say, we have probably got a lot less to worry about than Europe’s TV-dependent elite; if indeed they’re worried at all. We live in interesting times–even if the ever-shrinking number of teams with a genuine chance of winning the CL might suggest otherwise.
======================================
The stream of the Aberdeen game during the week was I believe lifted from the Aberdeen Red TV output. So as you say clubs (well you actually say Celtic but I assume you mean all clubs) are potentially losing revenue that might otherwise come fairly directly to them.
Personally I’m not about to get on my high horse – I have watched streams myself before and will do so again.
I doubt many of those watching on unpaid for streams earlier in the week would have bothered paying to watch those games so I’m not sure I would see this as a genuine loss in revenue IMO.
However, I do wonder what the reaction may have been if posters here had been watching a free stream of a game being broadcast by Celtic TV……
That’s great news Tri. Congratulations and thanks for all the hard work and grief you take on our behalf. Much appreciated.
Back where we belong- I was joking honest. There has been no infection of entitlement issues from too much exposure to Govan miindedness.
HAving said that if I was in the DCK business I could claim that I meant geographical back where we belong.
Many of you will be familiar with Broadwood and that it can seem to be the coldest stadium on Earth. Part of that is because the the mean stand faces direct into the prevailing wind had it been built on the other side of the pitch the fans would be in its shelter rather than facing the wind. I suppose that the entrance would look less impressive if that had been done but the paying support should come first.
Unless Aberdeen do it differently to other clubs you cannot subscribe to watch the games if you are in the UK. As far as I am aware no-one was actually showing the ICT game. So I don’t see what Revenue was being lost to either club.
Like I said earlier, watching streams is legally no different from buying a CD and copying the contents onto you iPOD (other personal music systems are available). It is a potential breech of copyright.
As to watching free streams of Celtic games, I would do that as well. For the same reasons as above. If Celtic are ever allowed to sell their games (live) to UK based customers then I would pay for them.
You could argue that if these games are being showed on Sky, BT or whatever other subscription service is available in the UK that is a different issue. That they have paid for the right to show these games and you are therefore taking a service which they have paid for and you should buy a subscription from them to watch the game. However like I said I personally pay for Sky Sports and BT Sports
I was watching streams for games which, as far as I am aware, I had no other way of watching.
With regards the quality “The quality of these streams–yes, I’ve watched them–is pretty risible, with “screen” sizes that are smaller than current cell-phones…” That’s just wrong.
A few more thoughts on the Kodi media centre software. The ease with which streams can be made available, even though the quality is quite variable, shows that there is a place and a platform for an SPFL app. As mentioned above, I’d be surprised if supporters created pirated streams of the club’s own TV channel. Not very clever. But what about an app for the Scottish football fan who cannot subscribe to every club’s own TV channel but who feels the offers from BT, Sky and BBC are not catering properly? If clubs made their in-house streams available to an SPFL app so that you could pick and choose which match you wanted to watch, or just zap around to a few. Clubs could still generate revenue by charging for the stream they supply. The technology is there, it just needs the will and vision to get it off he ground, oh, and the web stream rights 🙂
The best thing about the Kodi discussion is that it shows the possibilities that exist. All of us want to support Scottish football. Is a Sky or BT subscription propping up our game or the EPL? And even if dodgy streams were available you’d like to think most folks looking for online content would buy an SPFL online subscription out of principle, to support the game.
Apropos legality:
I see that today’s Scotsman features a piece by Lindsay Herron in which the Clyde assistant manager, Bob Malcolm, is also revealed as wanting Scott Allan to sign for TRFC, although there is no direct quote. Usual “Rangers men” rubbish also sprinkled throughout.
Can anyone remember what Bob Malcolm did the season he left Ibrox?
Re the ratings and the TU/TDs. They just stopped working. I assumed it was a polldaddy problem but will have it investigated.
EDIT: TUs are back, but the ratings still appear to be broken.
Trisidium says:
July 25, 2015 at 11:26 am
Re the ratings and the TU/TDs. They just stopped working. I assumed it was a polldaddy problem but will have it investigated.
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The fonder my heart for their absence 🙂
Nearly fainted when I read Tris. post about moving into the Emirates! Thinking, London for the TSFM! The Cost, the money will be gone in a month! The logistics for guests. Pig Pink having to relocate (I presume). Then I read it more carefully. 😆
A lot of folk were quite happy that the TUs disappeared. Probably count myself in on that as well. Accordingly, I thought we could give a different format a try.
Might make disapproval appear less hostile than it does to some of our more sensitive-to-TU souls 🙂
Like the new comment rating, bit more nuanced!
I see the Hibs player isn’t playing, so mission at least partially accomplished. I hope Spiers et al are proud of themselves.
Question for the legals
If a PR outfit is acting as an agent for a club, then surely the club is liable for any offences their PR agent may commit, with respect to things like tapping up?
So thats the first half over and all I can say is that St Mirren fans should be smiling.
Same as the play off between these two at the end of last season, both teams are awful. I cannot think of one player on the field that any premier league side would want. Both defences look ropey, neither midfield seems to have any flair and the front lines look like amateurs.
This league could be very competitive this season.
Trisidium says:
July 26, 2015 at 12:14 am
Promised Friday night update on the fund raising: You folks have contributed 52% of the target and we are at the halfway stage of the project.The ads have added another £100 or so to that.
We had a take-it-or leave it opportunity for office space on the table this week. Recent fundraising developments gave us the confidence to say “take it!”, so we will be moving into an office/studio in the Emirates Arena, hopefully within the next seven days.
==========================================================
Emirates Arena; bit more pleasant than yon place BP told me you had a look at down the road a bit and certainly a better view out the windaes. 🙂
Homunculus says:
July 25, 2015 at 10:56 am
Unless Aberdeen do it differently to other clubs you cannot subscribe to watch the games if you are in the UK. As far as I am aware no-one was actually showing the ICT game. So I don’t see what Revenue was being lost to either club.
Like I said earlier, watching streams is legally no different from buying a CD and copying the contents onto you iPOD (other personal music systems are available). It is a potential breech of copyright.
As to watching free streams of Celtic games, I would do that as well. For the same reasons as above. If Celtic are ever allowed to sell their games (live) to UK based customers then I would pay for them.
You could argue that if these games are being showed on Sky, BT or whatever other subscription service is available in the UK that is a different issue. That they have paid for the right to show these games and you are therefore taking a service which they have paid for and you should buy a subscription from them to watch the game. However like I said I personally pay for Sky Sports and BT Sports
I was watching streams for games which, as far as I am aware, I had no other way of watching.
With regards the quality “The quality of these streams–yes, I’ve watched them–is pretty risible, with “screen” sizes that are smaller than current cell-phones…” That’s just wrong.
4 Votes
=================
I have a subscription to Redt TV and watched the game live. I’m in the UK.
Not sure how the rules work but this one was certainly broadcast in the UK for RedTV subscribers.
Matty Roth
Danish Pastry
Steveplustax
The significance of streaming is that it presents a choice that existing to air packages do not.
To watch Celtic for example the ability exists technically to let supporters watch every game via Celtic TV if they live overseas. They can also hear commentary of every game live wherever they reside.
However the 3 to 5 blackout and current contract arrangements prevent this choice to the support as a whole to watch only Celtic ,from happening.
More relevant than that though is the price to watch on TV.
This requires a new business model as was said but key to that will be a change in attitude by supporters in recognising that what they pay is reflected on the field of play and if they are watching for free or even if they subscribe, that in effect remote watchers are being subsidised by match going supporters.
Celtic introduced an Overseas Season Ticket three years ago which if it were possible to offer UK residents could be the new model.
Basically I pay £250 rather than the normal subscription which is around £140/£180 and that allows me to watch all games when abroad and attend 5 games on giving notice when at home. It also let’s Celtic give my seat to someone who cannot afford to attend when I’m away.
In fact I just got a nice letter of thanks from the Celtic Foundation who find folk to use my seat when I’m away.
The point though is that this arrangement is in my opinion a fair price to watch (PTW) .
By fair I mean fair to fellow Celtic supporters who do turn up at games hail hail, sleet or snow and without whom remote watchers would have no team to watch.
Someone mentioned the Internet conditioning us to expect everything for free and that is true and that mindset is what will need to be addressed for an OST model to become a UK one.
Its an old business saying but there is no free lunch and everyone dining should pay and be able to pay to watch at a level price that suits their situation, but is recognised as spreading the load across the supporter spectrum within each club.
That is the Vision I would be pursuing whilst recognising the various hurdles that need to be overcome and taking steps to do so in the meantime.
I think streaming will provide the necessary impetus for that change in thinking.
Looks like Stubbs will be the first manager to lose his job this season.
Having been a defender throughout his career, how on earth did he end up with such a poor back four and the worst goalkeeper that I have seen in a long time.
The worst part for Hibs fans is that Rangers look like a poor side. On this display Hibs should be very worried about relegation and totally forget any possibility of promotion.
Watching the second half of Hibs v TRFC.
With no intention to offend Hibees it’s men v boys.
Three years later TRFC finally look like getting their football thinking straightened out.
Hibs defence doing their bit for season ticket sales 😀
Well the football season must have started because I’ve just said, ‘Oh dear, Hibernian,’ for the first time in a while. They created chances, they could have been three up, Rangers were defensively fragile, not coping with long balls in behind, Hibs were actually one up and the first 40 minutes (nearly) and should have capitalised. Instead? Silly free kick given away at the edge of box (1-1) and another goal conceded before half time (1-2). In the second half, Hibs might as well not have been there.
Matty Roth says:
July 25, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Thanks for the update.
Can you watch all of the games live.
Auldheid says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:25 pm
Watching the second half of Hibs v TRFC.
With no intention to offend Hibees it’s men v boys.
Three years later TRFC finally look like getting their football thinking straightened out.
Sorry Auldheid but I can’t agree. Rangers do not look like a good side, Hibs look strongly like relegation candidates unless they can get some new players signed. Namely a goalkeeper and a complete back four.
Rangers gave an impression of being a decent side by scoring six but when you look at the goals you have to say that against a half decent defence the only one that they would have scored was the free kick, the rest were down to a defence and goalkeeper that are completely out of their depth.
Auldheid says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:25 pm
Early days, but the Rangers side looks much improved. As rabtdog says Hibs created chances, but couldn’t capitalise on them, and the defence were pretty defenceless.
Still, Rangers will get a massive moral boost from the win, which probably couldn’t come at a better time.
berrty says:
July 25, 2015 at 1:29 pm
So thats the first half over and all I can say is that St Mirren fans should be smiling.
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Yes I’m sure Chick is happy enough today. 😀
Auldheid says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:05 pm
Matty Roth
Danish Pastry
Steveplustax
The significance of streaming is that it presents a choice that existing to air packages do not.
To watch Celtic for example the ability exists technically to let supporters watch every game via Celtic TV if they live overseas. They can also hear commentary of every game live wherever they reside.
______________________________________________________________
Hearing commentaries is no problem at all, but the ability to show live matches only exists if there is a broadcaster covering the matches. Streaming is pretty easy, logistically simple and relatively cheap. Content gathering (picture-wise) is none of those things.
There has been for some time a misconception that live images of a football match only have to be broadcast. The content acquisition part of it is often forgotten, and the cost is massive for a football club- typically in the tens of thousands per match with today’s production values. It is understandable in those terms that the broadcasters take measures to safeguard their rights within their broadcast footprint.
Any new model will necessarily involve opening up a new cost centre. I couldn’t tell you what the current figures are for Celtic TV, but when I was there the costs outweighed the benefits exponentially.
There may be some economies of scale involved if the operation is opened up to all of the clubs, but there is still a serious imbalance arithmetically without a commensurate exponential growth in the viewer base.
Would opening the league matches up to UK viewing provide that growth? Bearing in mind that football is about fans watching live, I seriously doubt it. At the moment, clubs actively negotiate for as few live games at their ground as possible.
Live streaming to the UK seems to me to be counter-intuitive to that.
Auldheid says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:05 pm
The significance of streaming…
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That’s a very decent alternative for fans who aren’t often able to attend. As a neutral I really do like the open all mics format on the wireless (listening now with my IP address temp. moved back to Glasgow via a VPN).
An SPFL streaming option of ‘open all cameras’ with live video clips and with the possibility of ‘in app’ purchases of an entire match-day ticket to a particular featured match (or matches) could also be a way to go — tapping into existing streams from club tv channels.
Must be lots of fans home & abroad who would sign up to a sensibly priced online service. It would certainly put the revenue stream towards the clubs. What it mustn’t be is a return to the pre-Armageddon obsession with a few teams.
Btw, are cast offs from the lower English leagues now more than a match for the Scottish Championship? No doubt helped by an understrength Hibees who continued where they left off last season, but a worrying result for Scottish football at Easter Road, imo. Early days, but an impressive start by the new look team playing out of Ibrox. The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Vocal Appreciation Society were also in full voice.
PS Jings, just noticed we now have a 5-Star system! Now there’s an emblem for any upcoming SFM tee-shirts and mugs 🙂
Am just lovin the understated reaction to todays, deserved, Rangers Victory. Look out Manchester United, The rangers are back!
Well done Tris/SFM on securing office space: a really significant development.
[But in the interests of fairness it could have been located at the centre of Scotland – apparently near/on Schiehallion. 😉 ]
I’m sure this will also generate other unexpected benefits ?
Onwards and upwards for SFM and the pesky Internet Bampots !
From BBC Sport;
“Rangers could be in trouble with the Scottish Professional Football League due to the behaviour of some of the club’s fans during their win over Hibs.
A total of three arrests were made for sectarian singing during Saturday’s Scottish Challenge Cup tie at Easter Road.
The match delegate’s report will highlight the issue as well as the use of a flare.
Rangers progressed to the second round with a 6-2 win. ”
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And, to be fair, a good win for TRFC on the pitch…
scapaflow says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:46 pm
Auldheid says:
July 25, 2015 at 2:25 pm
_________________________________________
Agreed. I think Rangers played with a little more organisation and purpose (one swallow etc. but they will be encouraged). More importantly though, and employing my firmly held belief that football is 50% psychological, Rangers will have got a huge boost from today – Hibs the reverse.
I was particularly impressed by the Rangers right back (even before his goal) and Scott Allan is (at this level anyway) a very bright light. Perhaps had he started the match, Hibs may have been beyond the horizon before Rangers knew about it.
All in all though, I thought it was a very interesting curtain-raiser for the Championship season.
StevieBC says:
July 25, 2015 at 4:52 pm
From BBC Sport;
“Rangers could be in trouble with the Scottish Professional Football League due to the behaviour of some of the club’s fans during their win over Hibs.
A total of three arrests were made for sectarian singing during Saturday’s Scottish Challenge Cup tie at Easter Road.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
in the interests of consistency
That will be free hospitality tickets for the next 10 matches
[But in the interests of fairness it could have been located at the centre of Scotland – apparently near/on Schiehallion. ? ]
If the aim is to move the centre of gravity of Scottish Football what better place to be based, than where the world was weighed?
I’ll get ma coat
I’ve just spoken to a The Rangers supporting acquaintance who said, and I quote:
“If that had been Barcelona playing like Rangers did today it would be getting talked about for months.”
Good to see they’re taking things with their usual good grace and understated enthusiasm.
Group F: ENGLAND, Slovakia, SCOTLAND, Slovenia, Lithuania, Malta
So what do we all think of Scotland’s chances of qualification out of that lot? I’m fairly confident, since I really don’t rate England. Slovenia might be tricky, though.
Somewhere in the wild media celebrations in the SMSM about the nil extra revenue Chinese TV deal did I miss the similarly breakthrough announcement that they had managed to get pub level football onto BBC Alba?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
neepheid says:
July 25, 2015 at 7:14 pm
European qualifying competition draw
The nine group winners advance directly to the World Cup finals. The eight runners-up with the best record against the teams first, third, fourth and fifth in their groups proceed to play-offs to decide the remaining four European berths.
Tournament hosts Russia are given a bye to the finals.
======================================
It’s not going to be easy. Need at least second place and then into a play-off (hopefully).
Interesting article by Gabriele Marcotti on a different model for football on TV. It’s about England but something similar could easily be done in Scotland too.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/scrap-the-tv-ban-on-3pm-kick-offs