Why We Need to Change

Over the past couple of years, we have built a healthy, vibrant and influential community which recognises the need to counter the corporate propaganda spouted by the mainstream media on behalf of the football authorities.

The media have, not entirely but in the main, been hostage to the patronage of those in charge of the club/media links, and to the narrow demographic of their readership. Despite a continuing rejection of the media’s position by that readership (in terms of year on year slump in sales) there is an obstinate refusal to see what is by now inevitable – the death of the print media. The lamb metaphor in fact ironically moving to the slaughter.

The football authorities in Scotland, once the country that gave the world the beautiful game, are rigid with fear that their own world will fall apart – because they are wedded to the idea that only one football match actually matters. To that end they will do whatever it takes to ensure that it continues. They have long since dispensed with the notion that football is an interdependent industry, and incredibly, even those who are not participants in that match follow like sheep towards the abattoir.

The argument is no longer that one club cheated and got away with it. The debate that we need to have is one about what is paramount in the eyes of the clubs and the media . Is it the inegrity of sporting endeavour, or box-office?

For out part, independent sites like this have accelerated the print media’s demise, and there have been temporary successes in persuading the clubs to uphold the spirit of sport. However our role has up to now been to cast a spotlight on the inaccuracies, inconsistencies and downright lies that routinely pass for news. News that is imagined up by PR agencies and dutifully copied by the lazy pretend-journalists who betray no thought whatsoever during the process.

Despite our successes, it really is not enough. We have the means at our disposal to do more, but do more we need to change ourselves, because the authorities sure as hell aren’t gonna.

We need to provide meaningful insight into the game that removes the Old Firm prism from the light path. We need to provide news that has covered all of the angles. We need to entertain, inform and energise fans of sport and all clubs.

We need to do that from a wholly independent perspective. None of this refusing to tell the truth about club allegiances. There is no reason why intelligent men and women can’t be objective in spite of their own allegiances (although the corollary absolutely holds true).  Our experience of the MSM in this country is that the lack of arms-length principles in the media has corrupted it to such an extent that they barely recognise truth and objectivity. We need to be firm on those arms-length principles.

In order to do that we have put together a plan (with enough room to manoeuvre if required) as follows;

We will rebrand and re-launch as the Independent Sports Monitor. We have acquired the domains isMonitor.co.uk and IndependentSportsMonitor.co.uk, and those will be the main urls after the re-launch, hopefully later in the summer.

The change in name reflects the reality of our current debate which is not always confined to Scotland or football. It will also give us the option in future of applying the success of our model to other sports and jurisdictions through partner sites and blogs. This should also help in our efforts to raise funds in the future. However any expansion outwith the domain of Scottish football is some time away, and will depend on the success we have with the core model.

Our mission statement will be;

  1. ISM will seek to build a community of sports fans whose overarching aim is the integrity of competition in the sport.
  2. ISM will, without favour, seek to find objective truths on the conduct and administration of sport. We will avoid building relationships with individuals or organisations which would bring us into conflict with that.
  3. ISM will provide a platform for the views of ALL fans, and guarantee that those views will be heard in a mutually respectful environment.
  4. ISM will also endeavour to inform and entertain members on a wide range of topics related to our shared love of sport.
  5. ISM will seek to represent the views of sports fans to sporting authorities and hold the authorities to account.

We have estimated our (modest) costs to expand our role as per recent discussions. The expanded role will take the form of a new Internet Radio Channel where we hope to provide 24/7 content by the end of the year. It will also see a greater news role  where we will engage directly with clubs and authorities to seek answers to our questions directly.  And we will seek to contact the best fan sites across Scotland with a view to showcasing their content.

We have identified individuals who we want to work (initially on a part time basis) towards our objectives, we have identified premises where we want to conduct our business, and we hope to move into those premises during this summer.

To finance these plans there are a couple of stages;

  1. Initially (as soon as possible) we need to pay accommodation and hosting costs for the first year. To do so,  we hope to appeal to the community itself. Our aim is to raise around £5000 by the end of August.
  2. There are salary costs (around £15,000) attached to our first year plan, but these have been underwritten by Big Pink, and equipment costs (est. £3000). These will be reimbursed if the advertising campaign we recently started bears any fruit (we will not know about that for a few months).
  3. It will not be too discouraging if we make losses in the first couple of years, so if necessary we will seek crowd-funding to finance our plans if the resources of the community itself prove inadequate to smooth a path to break-even point.

Our first year may be a perilous hand-to-mouth existence, but I am certain the journey will be an exciting and enjoyable one. We will also need to search our community resources for contacts at clubs; players, officials, ex-players, local journalists etc. Please get in touch if you have any in at your club.

We also hope to tap into the expertise of our community for advice, comment and analysis of developments, and we will be looking for any aspiring presenters, journalists, sound and video editors, graphic designers (and lots of others) to help us find our feet. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully accepted.

We mustn’t lose sight of why we are doing this. It is because we love our sport, because we want to be able to continue to call it that, and because the disconnect we find in Scottish football, that of the conflicting interests of the fans and the money men, will never be addressed as long as the fans are hopelessly split.

The ultimate goal is to allow sport – not our individual clubs – to triumph over the greed and corporate troglodyte-ism of those people who run it. I am confident that we as a community desperately want to be able to make a difference. That is why I am confident we can achieve our aim of becoming a significant player in the game.

 

This entry was posted in General by Trisidium. Bookmark the permalink.
Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,978 thoughts on “Why We Need to Change


  1. easyJambo says:
    Member: (722 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 1:16 am
    ‘..
    I have a copy of the Ibrox deeds that was supplied to me in April 2013. I

    wottpi says:
    Member: (695 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 10:01 am
    ‘..As EasyJmabo says the deeds issues seems to be pretty sound in that the property is registered to TRFCLtd’
    ________
    Yes, I have a copy that shows Sevco Scotland as having title. Naturally, that would have been changed when Sevco Scotland became TRFC Ltd: have you a date for the registration of that change of owner-name?
    I remember reading that sometimes Registration can be several months behind the actual change. Which might mean that a change of actual ownership a couple of months ago might not be publicly shown until around now-ish or even later.
    I don’t propose to spend 24 quid to find out, but the suggestion that the
    stadium is not immediately helpful as a financial asset keeps cropping up!
    And there has been such a movement of directors and shifts of strategy etc that one wonders.
    (And, not that it is connected,I see that Akram Mohammed resigned a couple of weeks ago as a Director of Youth Development. And I say to myself : who the france is he? If he has featured or been mentioned on this blog I have no recollection of it. Apparently,he’s been around for years, making money out of ‘Rangers’ in one way or another (like so many other various ‘directors’).


  2. John Clark says (snipped)
    I don’t propose to spend 24 quid to find out, but the suggestion that the
    stadium is not immediately helpful as a financial asset keeps cropping up!

    With it potentially having a bearing on a criminal case and there still being the possibility of a civil case I think we have to be careful here but isn’t the question not what is the name that is on the deeds but should the name that does appear legitimately appear. That is the uncertainty that beyond promises made to various supporters groups means that the stadium can not be used as security.

    It is worth recapping that the Administrators of the old club entered into an exclusivity deal that would withstand the failure of the CVA. They insisted after the failure of the CVA that arguments that selling the assets separately could/would raise more money were moot because the exclusivity deal included purchase of the assets if the CVA failed. The deal was between the Administrator and Sevco 5088 not Sevco Scotland and it is the uncertainty of how something that should have been sold to Sevco 5088 ended up in the possession of Sevco Scotland which has resulted in a contingent liability on the accounts of Sevco Scotland’s parent company.


  3. Finloch says:
    Member: (60 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 9:32 am
    ‘..The mischief and sheer frippery of it all and trying to mischief up and build momentum from negative stories about the team from the east end.’
    _______
    And none, none! more mischievous a stirrer than the ‘presenter’ of the programme last night-the one and only (thanks be to God) Kenny McIntyre.

    Was there ever a more obviously and persistently one-sided, unbalanced ‘presenter’?

    He kept flogging the Collins thing well past the point when the others had talked it to death, with an eager anxiety to keep it going as negatively as possible, out-doing sailor boy Chick at his worst!

    As the ‘formal’ BBC man, he let his personal feelings run away with him, looking repeatedly for the harshest condemnation of Collins and Deila that he could extract from what sounded to me like slightly embarrassed guys who had made thoroughly sound but non-hysterical criticism of Collins’ remarks.
    BBC radio Scotland really must try to find another Richard Gordon or two or three, to head up these football/sports programmes.
    McIntyre (and Young, of course, not that he was involved last evening) are
    a disgrace.
    I blame Controller , Scotland.


  4. John Clark says: August 11, 2015 at 11:50 am

    Yes, I have a copy that shows Sevco Scotland as having title. Naturally, that would have been changed when Sevco Scotland became TRFC Ltd: have you a date for the registration of that change of owner-name?
    ==============================
    The document I posted states that the company name had changed to TRFC Ltd and makes reference to the new name elsewhere in the document.

    The date of the last update to the record is stated as 25 Oct 2012, which I would guess as being the likely date of the name change being actioned.


  5. Smugas says:
    Member: (896 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 10:41 am

    You’re not going to see a complete instantaneous meltdown of the fanbase regardless of the results. CG and his little consortium including Ashley have gambled on precisely that fact.

    But, as you rightly say, it needs cash, and it needs said cash to be used effectively. Certain aspirations simply have to be tempered.
    ======================

    Certainly the fan base won’t collapse, especially now that they have their Messiah in the Blue Room (well, in spirit, if not physically very often).

    The trading losses will continue, and someone will have to put in a good few million to see this season out, most probably Ashley again.

    However the playing budget will be lower than last season, and the head gardener only has 4 more months in post. So losses should be reduced.

    I feel pretty certain that they will get promotion this season, but even if they do, the financial problems won’t disappear. The losses may even get worse if higher standard, more expensive players are recruited.

    Without Retail income, they simply can’t turn a profit, in my opinion. The “chase” is going to cost someone a lot of money pretty soon, and with no guaranteed outcome. Did Green set this up to fail on purpose? Or maybe he just didn’t care. Either way, it hardly matters now.

    A sugar daddy is urgently required, unless by some miracle King manages to tap the markets again. I simply can’t see the institutions getting suckered again- although I was completely wrong about the IPO, which I was sure would flop. Old Charles is some super salesman, that cannot be denied. Rumour has it that King is a dab hand at shifting snake oil to stock markets, so maybe I’ll be amazed again.


  6. Good Afternoon

    I wouldn’t normally do this, but I have pasted my latest piece in its entirety below. The issues raised seem to go to the very heart of what the TSFM is about, and it would be interesting to hear your views.

    Will we every get any satisfactory answers and meaningful change? Fingers crossed!

    Have a good afternoon

    ______________________________
    HOW ARE YOU GETTING ON, MONSIEUR PLATINI?

    For The Clumpany’s 150th blog [*insert wild applause/ vitriolic abuse here*], I thought I would take a look back.

    The Clumpany was prompted to do this after spotting this old CQN piece which was tweeted by the always-interesting @auldheid.

    The article was tweeted following the news that the SFA has backed Michel Platini to become the next President of FIFA.

    The CQN piece from 12 March 2012 was written during the calamitous final meltdown of Rangers FC, which had been put into administration in February, and which would only finally ’emerge’ in June, in the back of the hearse marked ‘liquidation’.

    The piece pondered the ongoing “crisis”, suggested that the SFA was “overwhelmed” and that Scottish football needed “the oversight only Uefa can provide and its president promised in his Christmas message”.

    Platini’s Christmas message of 2011 wasn’t a patch on the Charles Green one of 2012, but it still bears some scrutiny and illustrates the high-minded rhetoric of the would-be FIFA President who…errr… backed having the World Cup in Qatar.

    But it also allows us to ponder how these principles played out in Scotland…

    The statement can be found here.

    “Preserving football’s values – Michel Platini”
    http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/president/news/newsid=1737706.html

    It is amusing to see that it was published on Christmas Day itself. Alongside messages from the Queen, Pope, and Archbishop of Canterbury etc. It really does make you wonder how UEFA sees itself!

    You can read the whole statement – which looks back on the events of 2011 – at your leisure, but here are the key extracts.

    “I have always perceived my responsibility as being to protect the game, and 2011 has been a year in which the game has needed particular protection. It has been a year which has underlined the importance of our organisation as one of the guarantors of the values, stability and equity of this sport.

    It has been a year in which certain of our national associations have had to take courageous decisions to preserve the justice and integrity of our sport. A year in which we have also had to remain solid and defend our values – sometimes alone – to guarantee the respecting of the rules and the equity of the competitions, and to prevent football becoming a hostage of a few for their own profit and interests. It has been a year in which, unfortunately and at the expense of certain agonies, football has emphasised its need for transparency and governance, aspects which are so important in relation to the respect which is so dear to me.”

    Where do you even begin with this?

    Any fan of a Scottish club (except Rangers) who witnessed the tumultuous events of 2012 will tell you that their experience was not one steeped in values, stability, equity, justice and integrity.

    No. It was an experience of administrators being in panic.

    It was an experience of warnings about ‘Armageddon’ and ‘slow lingering death’ if the clubs did not bow to the will of the Scottish authorities and allow Sevco to be gerrymandered into the higher divisions of the league.

    It was an experience of the SFL throwing its normal admission processes out of the window and not allowing the likes of Spartans even a sniff of joining the league.

    It was an experience of the SFA being party to a secret 5-Way Agreement with the new club. An agreement which might have contained undertakings that may or may not have been breached. And which may or may not leave the new club liable to unknown sanctions.

    It was an experience of the SFA creating the hitherto-unknown mechanism of a ‘conditional membership’ to allow Sevco Scotland to take the field against Brechin in the Ramsdens Cup.

    It was an experience of a laughably flexible ‘player registration embargo’ being applied to the new club.

    It was an experience of the truly remarkable Lord Nimmo Smith Commission finding guilt of systematic rule-breaking. But then concluding that there was ‘no sporting advantage’ on the basis of a very ‘interesting’ interpretation of player registration rules by the SFA, and without having considered the Discounted Options Scheme that preceded the introduction of EBTs.

    It was an experience of seeing a mere fine imposed on liquidated Rangers. A fine for which Sevco apparently assumed responsibility, but haven’t yet paid.

    It was also an experience of questions remaining unanswered about the awarding of Rangers’ licence to play European football in 2011-12.

    It was an experience of seeing a ‘conflicted’ SFA President remaining in office throughout.

    In short, it was an experience that was as far removed from M. Platini’s idealistic festive rhetoric as you could possibly imagine!

    Where were you UEFA? And where were you, M. Platini?

    The issues haven’t gone away. We still await
    •a look at the 5-Way Agreement
    •a revisiting of the Lord Nimmo Smith findings to address some glaring gaps; and
    •a definitive explanation of whether Rangers were properly awarded that 2011-12 European licence.

    It is not too late for Mr Platini to be true to his word.

    The narrative around the FIFA Presidential election is all about transparency, reform and integrity. If that really means anything, it ought to apply just as much to national associations as it does to the plush FIFA HQ in Switzerland.

    Mr Platini’s 2011 Christmas message also spoke about the introduction of Financial Fair Play (FFP).

    “It is also a year in which I hope that we enter a new era in club football, thanks to financial fair play, which is supported and carried forward by everyone, and which is a symbol of our unity and our capacity to assume our responsibilities together when it comes to preserving football”

    The subsequent implementation of FFP has not been without it’s hitches but – aside from a hint by Peter Lawwell at the 2014 Celtic AGM that it might be on its way – there has been no sign of a move towards it in Scotland.

    Which is pretty remarkable given the liquidation of Rangers after years of living beyond their means, and the numerous other clubs who have been in and out of administration.

    Either the clubs have made it clear that they won’t stand for FFP, or the authorities have been dragging their feet.

    I know which scenario I think is more likely! But in either case, it really isn’t good enough.

    And once again The Clumpany asks where is UEFA? Where is Michel Platini?

    There is a delicious irony in reading Platini’s Christmas statement, given what happened in Scotland in 2012, and given that the SFA is now cosying up to him.

    It may be that the SFA simply views Platini as the best candidate.

    But there there may be politics involved. After all, UEFA members now get to vote on the British Fifa-Vice President, and the SFA may want to get ‘their man’ into the position next time round.

    Then again, they may simply be supporting Platini because they think he is going to win! After all, everyone likes to back the winner and be on good terms with them.

    But whatever the reason, the Clumpany sincerely hopes that M.Platini will live up to the high-minded principles of 2011, and all the promises of reform that he is going to make over the coming months.

    In April 2012 Stewart Regan spoke of the SFA having “a responsibility to all its members and must implement its rules without fear or favour.”

    Such notions of fairness, equity and integrity are what The Clumpany would like to see M.Platini put into practice. If he can.

    If the SFA helps him to achieve it, then that’s all to the good.

    But I really hope that these principles burst out of FIFA HQ and sweep through national associations around the world.

    Especially the one based at Hampden Park.

    We have been waiting a long time…

    #KeepOnClumping

    The Clumpany blog can be found at https://theclumpany.wordpress.com


  7. tykebhoy says:
    Member: (216 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 12:09 pm
    ‘The deal was between the Administrator and Sevco 5088 not Sevco Scotland and it is the uncertainty of ..’
    ________
    Thanks, tykebhoy, for the reminder of current legal proceedings about which it would be inappropriate to talk.
    It must be a matter of public record what were the precise charges laid against the accused.Do any of us know what those charges were? Or can we legitimately find out?
    In my own mind, at least subconsciously, I had not thought that were related directly to the alleged Sevco 5088 switcheroo, but rather more to the original sale.


  8. @John Clark. The addition of Whyte and Withey certainly suggests the original sale because of course the former was absolutely not involved in the asset purchase in any shape or form (insert we tongue in cheek icon). D&P were also involved in the original purchase but not necessarily the two administrators so it could also relate to the switcheroo or the whole shebang.


  9. The good ol’ boys are Level 5 are obviously keen on building their business. It shows just how far down the PR rabbit hole the press have gone, when Level 5 can tweet this:

    https://twitter.com/level5pr?lang=en

    boasting how their PR copy has been beautifully typeset and no-one bats an eye


  10. Neepheid,

    that’s just it Neeps. I can’t see why Charlie would set it up to fail when the dripping roast he has now, marinated in fan expectation as it is and set over a hubris barbecue seems so much better, for him. And I can’t see that Ashley is too disappointed with the outcome either. The only loser per se is Sevco (relative to what it could have been), but of course the combination of WATP and WATP’s media are desperate to ensure that they can’t be seen to be the losers, they just can’t be. It’s not fair etc etc etc.


  11. Finloch says:

    August 11, 2015 at 9:32 am

    If you didn’t know better you’d think John Collins was some kind of James Bond style villain straight from central casting.
    I don’t know exactly what he said or to whom or even why but guess it was along the lines of Celtic being under less pressure when they play in the SPL compared to when they play top teams in Europe (because the top teams can afford to play better players with smarter football brains and talents).

    ___________________________________________

    Ironically Derek McInnes agrees with John Collins although something that the Scottish media have failed to point out for some strange reason.

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/1325241-aberdeen-boss-no-scottish-team-will-test-our-discipline-like-rijeka-did/


  12. TheClumpany says:
    Member: (129 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 12:47 pm

    Excellent blog, Clumps, though your list of ‘experiences’ is far from exhaustive 😯

    One such experience not included, though perhaps of no interest to UEFA directly, was the experience of a totally unquestioning MSM. I have the feeling that the media in Platini’s homeland is not without it’s sports publications that would have been all over such a story – in their own country – like a virulent rash, and that he, and many other non-Scots, would be amazed at how easy our media made it for all the shysters and lickspittles to operate.

    I’d suspect there’s only two things that would bring any similar dealings to the attention of oversight bodies, such as UEFA, based in some foreign land, to their attention, and that is the home based association (SFA) or media. That is not going to happen when both are heavily involved in burying the facts from proper scrutiny, by anyone.

    Looking at your list of experiences, is there one there that has, at anytime, been forensically picked over by any member of the MSM since the Mark Daly documentary, which came right at the very outset – but then dropped spectacularly when things got hot?

    Like LNS, UEFA can only act on the information provided to them and rely on their various member FAs to provide full and honest revelations of all actual and potential wrongdoings. Or, as we’ve seen in the case of the FIFA exposè, a genuine, fearless and untarnished media!

    I am convinced that with only one such journalist, writing for one such media outlet, in our country, we would have seen all the wrongdoing and wrongdoers exposed a while ago, and, just as importantly, governing bodies thereafter in place that know they must govern without ‘fear or favour’ or face damning exposure.


  13. MoreCelticParanoia says:
    Member: (112 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 1:51 pm
    Finloch says:

    August 11, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Ironically Derek McInnes agrees with John Collins although something that the Scottish media have failed to point out for some strange reason.

    ——————————————————————

    Hmm, yes and no. I don’t think McInnes said anything that might be taken as insulting or particularly arrogant. I think the killer phrase for the Collins story was “clever enough players or quick enough thinkers to punish us.” That I can imagine folks might find a little disrespectful.


  14. About 20 years ago, somebody associated with Rangers complained in the press that it was difficult for them to progress in Europe when they had to face players like Tommy Turner (yes, specifically) in the league. Don’t remember a huge media backlash then.


  15. tayred says:
    Member: (152 comments) Member: (112 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    August 11, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    MoreCelticParanoia says:

    Finloch says:

    August 11, 2015 at 9:32 am

    Ironically Derek McInnes agrees with John Collins although something that the Scottish media have failed to point out for some strange reason.

    ——————————————————————

    Hmm, yes and no. I don’t think McInnes said anything that might be taken as insulting or particularly arrogant. I think the killer phrase for the Collins story was “clever enough players or quick enough thinkers to punish us.” That I can imagine folks might find a little disrespectful.
    __________________________________________

    So he was less clever with his choice of words than Derek McInnes. The basic point both managers are making is the same.

    The difference is one has been latched onto as crime of the century – not “a little disrespectful” – while one passes without comment (as should be the case)


  16. stevo says:
    Member: (19 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 2:27 pm
    About 20 years ago, somebody associated with Rangers complained in the press that it was difficult for them to progress in Europe when they had to face players like Tommy Turner (yes, specifically) in the league. Don’t remember a huge media backlash then.

    ——————————————————————-

    I have absolutely no recollection of Tommy Turner (Sorry Tommy if your looking in!). Wonder why they aimed at him in particular!?

    I agree, the media “storm” as you put it does seem a little out of scale. But at the same time a little more restraint and common sense on Collins part and it wouldn’t have been a story at all! The strange follow-up story where Deila mentions something about McInnes and Collins should sit down and discuss it rather than doing their discussion in the press was also a little odd.

    Simplest way to stop the media blowing these debates out of all proportion is simply not to say anything so provocative in the first place!


  17. MoreCelticParanoia says:
    Member: (113 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    The difference is one has been latched onto as crime of the century – not “a little disrespectful” – while one passes without comment (as should be the case)

    ——————————————————————–
    Aye, I won’t argue much on that one. Except to say it may be “Crime of the century” with regard the media hacks. For most diddy supporters it was just a bit disrespectful. But hey – we’ve suffered a helluva lot worse, and mostly from the press themselves!


  18. tayred says:
    Member: (154 comments)

    August 11, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    MoreCelticParanoia says:
    ——————————————————————–
    Aye, I won’t argue much on that one. Except to say it may be “Crime of the century” with regard the media hacks. For most diddy supporters it was just a bit disrespectful. But hey – we’ve suffered a helluva lot worse, and mostly from the press themselves!
    _____________________________________________________

    And then the press complain that managers and players will only repeat banal PR soundbites and cliches when being interviewed. That’s because managers and players know that the press these days are no more than gossip peddlars, witness STV had interviews with Paul Hartley and John Huges last night that consisted of nothing other than a chance to have a go at JC. John Hughes seems to have their number and didn’t get drawn.


  19. tayred says:
    Member: (154 comments)

    Simplest way to stop the media blowing these debates out of all proportion is simply not to say anything so provocative in the first place!
    ___________________________________________

    Everbody has their point of view but “provocative” is quite a stretch.

    John Collins was referring to Celtic having to keep a more disciplined shape in Europe than they do in the SPL, making the unfortunate (but truthful) reference to European teams being “cleverer”. Certainly statistics back this up, and again, no real difference from comments made by Derek McInnes that were not considered “provocative” by anyone and not picked up by the press as a stick to beat him around the head with and to go chasing managers in all four corner of the country to interview.

    Your solution would be basically to say nothing and then the press would simply wail about Celtic being in the huff, unco-operative blah blah blah

    JC’s comments were niaive, yes. Provocative, no, although we have seen over the years how the most truthful comments are sometimes the most “provocative”


  20. MoreCelticParanoia says:
    Member: (115 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 3:38 pm
    ==============================
    mcp, the media coverage of this has been decidedly odd (did BBC Sportsound have nothing else to talk about?)but John Collins was damned by his own choice of words, which came across as disrespectful. Ronny Deila didn’t fall into the same trap and made a fair and obvious point – you need to up your game to play in the Champions League (even qualifiers)as opposed to the Scottish Premiership. John Hughes made allowances for JC that others didn’t, because, as he said, they are close friends.

    Still a storm in a teacup.


  21. Hi MCP,

    Deleted my last message – it made a valid point but in a way that I didn’t like and online was too risky as could easily be taken the wrong way entirely. Apologies if it already has been.

    All I wanted to say was that referring to anyone as not being fast thinkers etc could easily be construed as provocative. It’s the language that was used by Collins that is the real problem. But as I said in agreement with you above, it’s being blown out of proportion by the media.

    It was a bit of a daft comment. There will be many more before the seasons over. Lets leave it at that.


  22. Fotoball [insert Job Title] says something bloody stupid, in other news the Sun rose in the East this morning


  23. For a manager no longer involved in European football it seems to me that Derek McInnes has a lot to say for himself.
    For a manager who led his team to 0 points from 12 last season against Celtic I think I would be more inclined to shut up rather than gripe against John Collins notwithstanding his lack of diplomacy.


  24. jimmci says:
    Member: (94 comments)

    August 11, 2015 at 4:20 pm
    ___________________________________________

    So McInness is the real villain here? Unbelievable.

    Once again, many in our the Celtic contingent are getting a bit over-sensitive. Collins was rude and disrespectful. When Souness did a no less disrespectful thing (the Hammer-Throwers remark), there was a shitstorm in the press a few notches on the beaufort scale above (to my memory) this one.

    I can imagine what the reaction would be from some of you defending Collins if Mark Warburton or Dave King had made the same remarks. What makes it more disappointing from my viewpoint is that in an effort to defend the indefensible, some of you are having a go at someone else who wasn’t guilty of the same disrespect. Ad hominem yet again.

    If we were all to go on a hissy fit every time our own clubs get (appropriately) criticised, there would be little chance of maintaining any debate on here. And think how it must feel for Rangers fans here when the routine name-calling that sometimes passes for fair comment goes on unchecked.


  25. @TayRed

    As you are an Aberdeen fan, it’s understandable that you will perceive what comes out of the mouth of your manager as being non-provocative, whereas you choose to interpret what John Collins says as provocative. Not only do I get that, but , in the case of JC , I agree he could have chosen his words better.

    In the interests of fairness, would you agree that “he’s got a lot to say for an assistant manager” is not only provocative, but also personal?

    Do you think Tony Docherty feels Derek McInnes values his opinion?


  26. Silent Partner says:
    Member: (26 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    In the interests of fairness, would you agree that “he’s got a lot to say for an assistant manager” is not only provocative, but also personal?

    —————————————————————

    Yes I would, for what its worth. It sounds like the type of comment that Strachan would make to great guffaws of laughter though.

    We could debate as to the scale of the provocativeness but I really don’t think that would gain us anything.

    Is provacativeness a word???

    Dunno TayRed – but we know what you meant 🙂
    Tris


  27. @Tayred

    Indeed it would not.

    On Strachan, I don’t believe he would say such a thing; he’s a lot more clever than that 😉


  28. Many SFM-ers have urged us to make a non-PayPal payment method available. Big Pink has set up an account for us so that can be achieved via cheque or bank transfer. The details are on the “Donate” page, but I will replicate the details here and make it a 24-hr “sticky”.

    We can now accept payments by bank transfer. Details as follows;

    Account: The Scottish Football Monitor
    Sort Code: 09-01-28
    A/c No: 84103108

    PLEASE if you donate using this method, include your SFM name in the reference.

    Donations by cheque will be possible, made payable to “The Scottish Football Monitor” – but not until we get an address 🙁


  29. If one were a corkscrew minded spiv one might for example keep the ownership of the stadium in the company but at the same time to excise a vital part of it and lease that back. One would need to examine the deeds in detail to ascertain if such has been done. If I were were feeling naughty I would excise the green grassy bit in the middle and lease that back to the company which owns the stadium. Or I might excise parts necessary for access and egress to the stadium and lease the right to use that piece of land for access. The latter option would need only the smallest sliver of solum round the stadium or parts thereof to work . That way the deeds and title plans would look complete. One could then lease the access rights year to year or even less the latter not only does not need registration it does not even need to be on writing, perhaps something like a side letter would be in place to carry on club tradition.

    As I said any of the above calls for corkscrew minded devious and it is a scheme unworthy of a theologically qualified type….G Spiers went to St Andrews to study theology anaw…


  30. Well, if the SFA has given its kiss of death – I mean support – to Platini, then he is obviously a bad ‘un !

    Would like to see a new face, but I presume that Platini has learned how to ‘play the game’ in his UEFA role to date, and should seamlessly slot into the FIFA role…but not much will change, IMO : the PR management will significantly improve and the ‘dodgy stuff’ will be less blatant, and conducted in a more creative manner.


  31. The rangers youth development co.(Rising stars,Lotto and bricks,) are now getting the SMSM push at the end of every unrelated story to do with it.The SMSM did do the rangers ST Proud with a similar push.
    Does anyone know the directors behind this program?


  32. The Collins debate is getting a bit silly. There is so much whatabouttery on show it is easy to forget what started it all. Whatever the press did 20 years ago, whatever Rangers manager/player/official said before that was worse, whatever Derek McInness’s reaction, the debate is not about other incidents or how the weans at the top of Scottish football conduct their petty point scoring exercises in the press.

    The original topic was about the extremely rude and disrespectful things John Collins has said. I find it hard to believe, after all of the criticism of self-entitlement this blog has built its reputation on, that we can’t quickly and quietly build a consensus behind that.

    We can’t have a war every time Celtic gets criticised. To those people who don’t like to see their club or individuals within their club criticised, this is most definitely not the place for you – because sooner or later, the collective wisdom of this blog WILL have criticisms of your club – whoever they are. Derailing the blog by refusing to come to terms with that is making the mods job more difficult, but it also threatens our credibility, and without that, we are no better than most fan-sites, and not as good as the rest.

    As a Celtic fan myself, I was appalled to hear what he said. Looking at the reaction on some fansites, I have been embarrassed to see the self-entitlement charge being made about Celtic. After the lessons of the last few years, I think most Celtic fans on SFM are equally embarrassed.

    If you think that Collins did nothing wrong, then feel free to say so, but on the merits of what he said alone and not on the reaction to it or imagined historical precedent.

    If John Collins was misquoted, I am sure he will attempt to put the record straight, or apologise for speaking as he did. We can deal with that when the time comes.


  33. Trisidium says:
    Moderator: (270 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 7:12 pm

    …If you think that Collins did nothing wrong, then feel free to say so, but on the merits of what he said alone and not on the reaction to it or imagined historical precedent…
    ======================================

    Sadly for the game in Scotland, Collins was only saying what we can evidence with our own eyes each time we watch a game.

    Celtic’s two league matches have been against opponents who simply cannot keep the ball when (evenly lightly) pressured. That’s a technical & mental failure. That’s what happens to Scots teams in Europe, they give the ball away.

    It would be interesting to see possession statistics for those two matches & how, when Thistle & County had the ball, it was returned to Celtic. Misplaced passes & ball out of play would make up a high percentage, rather than tackles, interceptions & fouls.


  34. Jingso.Jimsie says:
    Member: (73 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 8:06 pm (Edit)
    _____________________________________________

    JJ

    Thanks for sticking to the request I made wrt this.

    Having said that, I saw Celtic do exactly the same (giving the ball away cheaply) in both league games. I also saw both Celtic’s Euro opponents give the ball away very cheaply too. Four teams maybe gave away possession more than Celtic, but with the exception of Stjarnan, not by a big margin, which is reflected in the results.

    Also, a sample size of two matches is hardly one from which I would want to extrapolate a gulf in the SPFL as fundamental as the one I inferred from JC’s reported comments. I hope you would also wish to resist the temptation to do so.

    All of that is a matter of opinion of course, and YMMV, but even at that, it does seem a bit disrespectful and wholly unnecessary to use that kind of language.

    To be honest, if we’re calling a spade a spade, I’d like to have thought that the message from Celtic on the governance of the game and the flagrant breaking of rules would be as unequivocal, where it IS necessary. John Collins clearly isn’t up for that judging by previous reported comments.


  35. A really cracking 0-0 draw taking place at Tannadice as the match approaches HT. Plenty of golamouth action, end to end stuff, big crowd, bit of aggro creeping in from time to time. Dundee really should be ahead on chances. More direct tha United who are a bit smoother in possession. Great fun for a neutral though ….


  36. Barcalona 4 Sevilla 4 after 90min extra time,Willie Collum doing alright in the middle


  37. More Armagedon. Tayside Derby was a fantastic “advert for Scottish football”.
    Finished 2-2 with a 4th minute of injury time equaliser from Dundee.

    Great stuff.


  38. Still can’t see what the problem is with what Collins said or the manner in which it was said. It was the truth, as simple as that, but a message some do not want to hear.

    If Ian Baraclough came out and said tomorrow night I am going to throw in crosses to the Hearts box for 90 minutes given that despite all being 6ft plus the Hearts defense this season has shown themselves to be total numpties at defending set pieces I doubt many Jambos would have any problem with that, because it is true.

    The problem with the game in this country for so many years is that many have accepted mediocrity and have adopted a ‘well its the best we can do’ type attitude instead of trying to understand and replicate how many other small and developing football nations can apparently turn our skillful, quick thimking and clever footballers.

    Some folks are maybe right that if Collins was chocolate he would eat himself but when it comes to not accepting second best and trying to achieve a better standard of football I think we could do with a few more people Collins in the game. I am sure the newer managers like McInnes, Neilson and Hartley are trying their best not to accept second best and make sure they are developing quick and clever footballers. Even Warburton and Weir (who like Collins took care of himself to allow a long career) appear to have the same aims. It is still a work in progress but it is clear, as Collins implies, there is still a good way to go.

    [removed]


  39. Maybe John Collins will have learned a lesson from this episode and be a bit more careful how he expresses himself. Like most others I agree with the underlying point he was making.

    I thimk Ronny Deila learned from his remarks last summer about fitness levels & diet etc. having to improve. It tended to come over as a direct criticism of Neil Lennon’s methods.

    On a lighter note, Michael Owen said tonight that the best atmosphere he has ever played at was guess? Celtic Park! Isn’t that nice? 😀


  40. Big Pink says:

    Collins was rude and disrespectful.

    Trisidium says:

    The original topic was about the extremely rude and disrespectful things John Collins has said

    —————

    I do not have much time for whatabouttery and I do not really care what other managers or the press for that matter, think about Celtic as most of them have never shown any respect for them in my lifetime.

    I do however have a lot of time for the blog and for the people who do a great job moderating the site, so when you speak, I tend to take note and listen.

    However, I cannot support the comments listed above.

    Are we not the blog of truth; is that not the main driving force behind this media?

    I wish I had a Euro for every time I heard the comment at the end of European game “if that mob had a good striker, we would have gone out tonight”.

    That in no way can be seen as disrespectful, that was the reality of watching a team cutting open the Celtic defense with relative ease, only for the striker to fluff the shot.

    The media are doing a great job of showing the opposite of ‘smart’ being ‘stupid’, that was not how it was relayed or meant.

    I am really disappointed once again that the media has taken an innocent comment and abused it in this way, I am even more disappointed that you guys have chosen to follow suit with language that does not match the comments made.

    Of course you are entitled to your opinion but if that is how you genuinely feel, I have to believe that there is something wrong with my mentality as I see absolutely no disrespectful comments in that interview. Thoughtless?, maybe! ‘Extremely Disrespectful’, definitely not!

    Maybe just my green tinted specs but I do not think so.


  41. I see Phil has uncovered some more onerous contracts, I wonder if the Ibrox faithful will be up in arms, alleged detail are:

    Mr Paul Murray £7,500 per week
    Mr John Gilligan £3,250 per week

    Apparently Murray is now earning more than Somers, I’m fairly sure that the fan groups were outraged by the size of Somers package.

    I wonder if the chase for empty Blue Room chair will influence the self appointed fan reps?

    http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/commensurate-with-experience/


  42. Willie Collum getting good plaudits game got a bit heated near the end but he controlled it well 5.4 Barcalona ,Sevilla did well to come from 4.1 down to 4.4,this team Armageddon will not be able to compete in the games home and abroad played tonight


  43. scapaflow says:
    Member: (1389 comments)

    August 11, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    I see Phil has uncovered some more onerous contracts, I wonder if the Ibrox faithful will be up in arms, alleged detail are:

    Mr Paul Murray £7,500 per week
    Mr John Gilligan £3,250 per week
    ===========================================
    And the new auditor enquires “Just what do you do to justify this emolument Messrs’ Murray and Gilligan?
    Much shuffling of brogued feet.
    “Well whatever Dave says really”


  44. @Madbhoy

    Interesting point regarding the very similar comments expressed by BP and Trisidium.

    I have to say, I had always assumed that the two monikers belonged to the one individual.

    @Trisidium & @Big Pink
    I am being genuine when I ask this, but are you actually two different people?


  45. Madbhoy24941 says:
    Member: (86 comments)

    August 11, 2015 at 10:03 pm (Edit)
    _______________________________________________

    Madbhoy24941

    Obviously we will have to agree to disagree, but there is another point here. Even if Collin’s analysis was correct, and he isn’t imo, he’s not doing a very good job of selling the game. If Doncaster had spoken a “truth” like that there would be a justified rush to condemn him for it.

    Another thing that is important from a cultural point of view is this. Anyone involved in football will tell you, and I have seen it at first hand – Footballers have a very serious and earnest code of professional conduct. They go to enormous lengths not to disrespect colleagues in hearing of “outsiders”. All John Collins has done is to ensure that his picture will be on every dressing room wall on the country as a reminder of his words.

    My personal viewpoint, coloured by some background from people who have had experience with Collins, is that he is doing his best to self-publicise. To be honest, that makes far more sense to me than the substance of his words – which will almost certainly come back to bite him on the posterior before very long – as did Souness’s “Hammer Thrower” jibe.


  46. Silent Partner says:
    Member: (28 comments)

    August 11, 2015 at 10:51 pm
    ____________________________________

    Yes we are.

    Although I wasn’t aware that madbhoy was implying that – was he?

    Interesting conspiracy theory though 🙂


  47. No idea about JJ Sit on fence.

    But plenty tonight.

    The DK trust was a front – emptied to pay SARS bills.
    Auchinowie was subject to some sort of Ahmed shenanigans
    Level 5 currently are owed 6 figure invoice.

    No idea but he keeps on tracking Phil like stories.

    We will see.


  48. ianagain says:
    Member: (658 comments)
    August 11, 2015 at 10:48 pm

    £7,500 & £3,250 a week seems a tad excessive for saying

    “Great DK”

    and

    “Super”

    as required :mrgreen:


  49. Ah Reggie Reggie I didn’t get where I am today (an impoverished chancer) without surrounding myself with overpaid chancers. Indeed what would the financial community think of me otherwise.


  50. Silent Partner says:
    Member: (28 comments)

    August 11, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    @Madbhoy

    Interesting point regarding the very similar comments expressed by BP and Trisidium.

    I have to say, I had always assumed that the two monikers belonged to the one individual.

    @Trisidium & @Big Pink
    I am being genuine when I ask this, but are you actually two different people.

    ___________________________________________

    Yep they really really are. :mrgreen:


  51. a highly significant factor in collins remarks is that the chelsea goalkeeper gets sent off at stamford bridge but the celtic goalkeeper gets to stay on at Parkhead

    ?????
    Tris


  52. Just watched the highlights of the Dundee derby. Absolutely thrilling stuff with a great atmosphere and some great goals. It’s the only derby we have in the top league this year so they’ve set their own high standards.

    As an aside I have seen my team both lose and retrieve two goals to end up drawing a game and I know which set of fans will be the happiest this morning. It’s only one point at the end of the day but in the heady atmosphere of the moment it can almost feel like a last gasp victory or a stomach churning defeat. I guess that’s why we all love football.


  53. high beeswax says:
    Member: (35 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 12:42 am

    a highly significant factor in collins remarks is that the chelsea goalkeeper gets sent off at stamford bridge but the celtic goalkeeper gets to stay on at Parkhead.
    ————————————-

    Forgive me for asking, but are the mods offering a prize for the most bonkers comment? What has that got to do with what John Collins said?


  54. Hello

    Long time lurker with only one previous post. Thought I would come out of my shell to chuck in my tuppence-worth on the John Collins interview.

    I feel it’s worth being upfront about the fact I am a Celtic fan for the sake of transparency more than anything else, however I hope people take the time to consider what I have to say from an objective point of view and respond/criticise accordingly.

    Having bought the Herald and read what I think is the original article on Fri/Sat my impression as I began to read the first few paragraphs was a very immediate “I smell something fishy”. The headline and opening to the piece appeared to be stating as fact to me, the reader, that John Collins had been extremely disparaging about everybody else in Scottish Football. Having become accustomed to the manner and style of of the Scottish press and the very poor quality of journalism in the printed media over these last few years I immediately reached for the metaphorical “salt” before reading on.

    On reading the quoted comments from Collins it became apparent that he had used language which could be misconstrued as insulting if you look at them from a particular angle. Indeed, as posters on here have already asserted, they are the kind of comments that opposition teams could pin to the wall for motivation. But let me be absolutely clear about this – insulting only if viewed from a very specific angle. Once I read the article in full it became clear that Collins was discussing the preparation for upcoming European competition and attempting to articulate how they are trying to further develop this process to give them the best chance of success. In other words, that “fishy” smell I referred to seemed absolutely on the money.

    Again for the sake of transparency I will make my own feelings on Collins comments clear. He was speaking in his capacity as part of Celtic’s management/coaching team and espousing on the difficulty they face when making the jump from Scottish football to European competition. This “difficulty”, to give some definition, is the jump in standard of the opposition. All-in-all a fairly straight forward assertion and one that I broadly agree with. With regards to the much talked about insulting comments, I have to say that I still feel the same way about them now after a few days have passed as I did when I read them – worth rolling your eyeballs and groaning but that’s about it. A little stupid but nothing worth getting too upset about for the discerning reader.

    Now roll on a few days, observe the attitude and behaviour of the Scottish Press and we have another example of the brazen hypocrisy and cruddy journalism that has become the norm in this country. It has been discussed at length on here and on other sites so I don’t need to comment any further on their behaviour but it does lead me to the main thrust of this post. Part of the reason this site exists, perhaps the only reason, is that the MSM have become corrupt – completely unfit for purpose. Reading this site over the last few days however reveals that the blog itself has taken the Heralds “fishy bait” and swallowed it hook, line and sinker. To be clear I am including posters and mods in this statement.

    At this point I’m wondering if it’s worth adding anything else to this post since the comment in the last paragraph may (or may not) have some folks spitting out their tea. Reading over what I have written though, I don’t think there is anything that I have stated that I couldn’t back up through further discussion/debate but I do realise as a new(ish) poster that perhaps I need to add some more context with regards to my own position.

    So last paragraph…

    Watching Scottish football over the last few years I am definitely of the opinion that the game is on the up. Teams are attempting to play a better brand of football with more emphasis on passing, technique, positional sense, movement, as well as youth development and making a greater effort to balance the books. This appears to extend through all the leagues and not just the top league or the top teams within that league. This pleases me immensely. I enjoyed Aberdeen’s challenge last year and hope to see them take another step forward this year so that we can have even more interest in the League. So how can I square my position on these matters with my earlier statements on the John Collins interview and my stance on the blog over the last few days? Nuance; shades; degrees; duality. Call it what you will but I think it is perfectly possible to see the truth in the broad brush strokes that Collins was using and still recognise that Scottish football is enjoyable to watch and on the up. If this site is to aspire to be better than the MSM that we all know to be so poor then you/we/me/us have to embrace these nuances and continue to dissect and discuss the issues with respect and maturity. Reading the blog over the last few days though, I don’t think the site has met its aspirations.

    That’s me, I’m done. Whatever fate has in store for this rambling post I await with genuine interest.

    Regards
    Jam X


  55. Omg. Lindsay Herron hasn’t just imbibed on succulent lamb he’s eaten the whole sheep. Today’s herald “McPherson sees parallels with souness era in rangers rebirth”

    Complete and utter twaddle of an article. My patience with the nonsense is wearing thin. Time to reconsider my 30 year readership of the paper.


  56. dom16.
    If you choose to ditch them then it might be worth telling them why.
    After all, you constitute(d) part of their much-needed income. Mr Herron is merely an expense.

    I honestly can’t remember the last time I bought Scottish paper.

    I do now subscribe online to The National. Even then, I only really dip into it occasionally.
    It’s a shame that, despite having a refreshingly different slant on the news of the day, it’s football coverage appears to be cut from the same tired old cloth.


  57. Keevins said on Clyde that Sevco will not just win the Championship but do so by 15 or 20 points. Hard to see how a team in liquidation could do so. Obviously thinks that two swallows makes a summer and ignores the financial impossibility of playing after Christmas without some mug giving away 20 million pounds. how can the man lie straight in bed?


  58. Safe to come out again?

    But whit aboot that Phil Collins and aw they songs aboot Scottish fitba clubs! It’s a disgrace. ‘Against All Odds’, insinuating betting by Scots fitba lads? (“It’s an outrage,” says Ian Black).

    And those Jambo jibes! ”Don’t Let Him Take Your Hearts Away’. It’s cruel tae mock the Vlad era. And ‘Twa Hearts’? Aye, right. Hearts emerged from admin, Mister Collins.

    Poking fun at Kris Boyd with ‘I Missed Again’ will only cause meltdoon of the Louden jukebox (and it’s clone in Kilmarnock), as will an obvious Sevco slur in ‘Don’t Lose My Number (5088)’. (“Good luck with that,” Craig Whyte). No tae mention pthe cynical reference to the Sons of Struth in ‘Going Back, The Boycott Didnae Wurk’ (“Aye, but we’re boycotting the boycott. It’s same boycott, just ask UEFA, FIFA…” Sandy Struth).

    But whit can ye expect fae a man ca’d ‘Collins’ who sings aboot ‘Another Day In Paradise’? Aye, we aw know his agenda…

    :irony:


  59. upthehoops says:
    Member: (823 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 7:05 am
    high beeswax says:
    Member: (35 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 12:42 am

    a highly significant factor in collins remarks is that the chelsea goalkeeper gets sent off at stamford bridge but the celtic goalkeeper gets to stay on at Parkhead.
    ————————————-

    Forgive me for asking, but are the mods offering a prize for the most bonkers comment? What has that got to do with what John Collins said?

    ——————————————————————

    Bonkers? Ok at a guess I would suggest that the comment was a suggestion that if Scottish football was a level playing field then things might not be as poor as Collins has decided to tell the world that it is.

    [removed]


  60. Just my opinion but the JC comments discussion has gone on for too long?? It was a stupid way to put across a valid point! Don’t think anyone is arguing with the point he’s making just the way it was made?? I’m a passionate Celtic fan and will defend anyone in the hoops on almost any given subject, but come on, this is cut and dried! Shouldn’t have said it the way he did and thats the end of it.

    Looking forward to the Killie game this morning before a full days work and then moving house on Friday! Good god I will sleep for the full weekend I reckon 😛 😀


  61. upthehoops says:
    Member: (823 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Just watched the highlights of the Dundee derby. Absolutely thrilling stuff with a great atmosphere and some great goals. It’s the only derby we have in the top league this year so they’ve set their own high standards.
    ===================
    Did we not have a Glasgow derby just 3 days ago?.


  62. torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
    Member: (157 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 8:36 am
    upthehoops says:
    Member: (823 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 7:01 am

    Just watched the highlights of the Dundee derby. Absolutely thrilling stuff with a great atmosphere and some great goals. It’s the only derby we have in the top league this year so they’ve set their own high standards.
    ===================
    Did we not have a Glasgow derby just 3 days ago?.
    ================
    And while not the same town/city I always thought St Johnstone against either Dundee club was considered a Derby along with Hamilton v Motherwell


  63. Kilgore Trout says:
    Member: (60 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 7:55 am
    ‘..The National…. it’s football coverage appears to be cut from the same tired old cloth.’
    _________
    I agree. And I stopped buying it!


  64. Fisiani says:
    Member: (42 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 8:01 am
    ‘… how can the man lie straight in bed?’
    ___________
    He can lie anywhere, I should imagine.


  65. tayred says:
    Member: (158 comments)

    August 12, 2015 at 8:23 am (Edit)

    upthehoops says:
    Member: (823 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 7:05 am
    high beeswax says:
    Member: (35 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 12:42 am

    Forgive me for asking, but are the mods offering a prize for the most bonkers comment? What has that got to do with what John Collins said?

    ——————————————————————

    Bonkers? Ok at a guess I would suggest that the comment was a suggestion that if Scottish football was a level playing field then things might not be as poor as Collins has decided to tell the world that it is.

    []

    ____________________________________________________

    I think uth’s question was a rhetorical one tayred, and I think your attempt to square the circle is a bit tenuous. There is no contest to find the most off the wall comment at all, but despite a lot of head scratching last night, I couldn’t see any way that the post was relevant – unless as I did, you see it as a deliberate taunt.

    I think we have made it clear enough about playing the man here. Whatever opinion people hold, it is perfectly acceptable to disagree with it, but not to make insulting comments about it. I have made my own feelings clear, but I don’t immediately assume others have lost their mind because they don’t concur with my sentiments …

    … or Big Pink’s 🙂


  66. tayred spot on……. collins comments are essentially about the lack of competitiveness in scotland……

    [removed]


  67. dom16 says:
    Member: (17 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 7:19 am (Edit)
    Omg. Lindsay Herron hasn’t just imbibed on succulent lamb he’s eaten the whole sheep. Today’s herald “McPherson sees parallels with souness era in rangers rebirth”
    ________________________________________________________________________

    Would Lindsay Herron have a career in journalism if he had a different father?

    He certainly lacks any kind of journalistic objectivity when it comes to Rangers. I honestly can’t remember any time he posted a criticism of Rangers – a unique feat if my recollection is accurate – even allowing for our some of the sycophancy in the MSM.

    In fact the perfect candidate for a job as editor of the club publication.

    Curiously, they tried that 🙂


  68. Jam X

    Your considered post reminds me of the joke of the old lady who reports to the police that a male neighbour is exposing himself as he undressed at the window across the street.

    The police call and ask how often this happens.

    “Every night” she says.

    The officers go to her bedroom window where she says that she witnesses the event.

    They are puzzled on looking across the street to the neighbours house how the old lady can get a view into the neighbours house as the angle makes it nigh impossible. So they ask her to explain exactly where she views the nightly event from.
    “Well if I climb up on top of my wardrobe and look from there it is as clear as day” she says.

    The point being of course that folk find what they want to find and the question is whether or not their perspective point is reasonable.

    In that respect lots of personal factors affecting judgement come into play. One of those is a general remembrance of JC being sacked by Hibs and charges he was arrogant to players. Some might know him personally or an event when he displayed arrogance, so all of those factors come into play.

    From years of monitoring a divorce care site I know from experience that as soon as a judgement comes into play, and it seems to have started unwittingly by JC being judged to have judged Scottish football and so those involved in it from what you describe, division is sure to follow.

    The media know this. They rely on it, they generate income by reporting things folk can judge to be good or bad and so create more judgements to fill media space.

    I don’t know whether to judge Eve as bad for offering Adam the apple or Adam bad for eating the dam thing and opening their eyes. But then again who am I to judge?

    It’s a mugs game.

    However sometimes good, as in your post in total, can only emerge from the shadow it’s opposite creates.


  69. Trisidium says:
    Moderator: (276 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Your and Big Pinks frustrations as the direction of the debate yesterday were clear, and I wholeheartedly agreed with your (and many others points). I also hoped that the clearly polarised debate had reached it’s conclusion even if it didn’t come close to reaching a consensus. The use of “bonkers” by uth raised ol’ Tayreds dander a bit. The original point made was perhaps spurious, but actually perhaps valid, and I’m not so sure that I agree with your assessment that it could only have been a deliberate taunt either (although yes, it may well have been!).

    But… lets try take this away from Collins comments completely. Hopefully let that one die a death now!

    Assume the start of the debate had merit, that as Collins and indeed McInnes suggested, that the Euro matches do expose our teams to a higher level of competition (I don’t think thats a surprise at all for a start, you are after all playing the top teams from around europe, it would be interesting to hear if similar debates are also being played out in the other leagues around europe, outside perhaps the big 5? Anyone?). The discussion should be about why is that so, and what can we do about it?

    Why – Scottish football has been about 2 teams for decades. In fact, apart from a brief spell in the 80’s it has been about two teams through living memory. Since the 90’s it has been badly skewed that way, with the top 2 siphoning off the majority of the cash, leaving the rest to fight for scraps. It was never a level playing field – and I don’t mean simply through dodgy ref decisions. We all feel cheated by them!

    Now, in recent times things have developed. Our friends in blue disappeared from the top league. I think the most fans would agree that the quality of the football being played by the rest of the league (lets just assume Celtic were always playing a higher level for arguments sake) has largely improved. The bigger diddies such as Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee Utd, Inverness, St Johnstone, etc etc and now of course Hearts have responded to the current environment, several have come through severe financial difficulties (many caused by attempting to keep up with the Souness/Murray driven idiocy/illegalities) and are coming out the other side stronger. Young teams are being built. Teams are starting to be able to hold on to their better players rather than having to sell to the first bidder. I didn’t give Aberdeen a chance in hell of keeping Jack for instance, and yet he stayed and signings have been added to that squad that genuinely improve the team.

    The SPL could never go from the 2 team hell that it was (it was much closer to causing armageddon than the current setup) to a wide open league in just a few seasons. Of course Celtic should always have the stronger team on paper, they have more resources than the rest of the league put together I’d imagine. But most teams are developing, and actually at a faster pace than I though imaginable. Some assistance is what is required, from the SFA, from the SPFL management, from the club directors themselves, from the media and yes from those in positions of responsibility to sell our league and not belittle it.


  70. Auldheid says:
    Blog Writer: (516 comments)
    August 12, 2015 at 9:34 am
    ‘…Eve as bad for offering Adam the apple.’
    __________
    Tsk, tsk!, Auldheid, a touch of SMSM -itis?

    Ra Bible doesn’t mention the name of the ‘forbidden fruit’! 🙂


  71. John Clark

    The bible did not mention the Great God Google either in its predictions. 🙂

Comments are closed.