Why We Need to Change

ByTrisidium

Why We Need to Change

Over the past couple of years, we have built a healthy, vibrant and influential community which recognises the need to counter the corporate propaganda spouted by the mainstream media on behalf of the football authorities.

The media have, not entirely but in the main, been hostage to the patronage of those in charge of the club/media links, and to the narrow demographic of their readership. Despite a continuing rejection of the media’s position by that readership (in terms of year on year slump in sales) there is an obstinate refusal to see what is by now inevitable – the death of the print media. The lamb metaphor in fact ironically moving to the slaughter.

The football authorities in Scotland, once the country that gave the world the beautiful game, are rigid with fear that their own world will fall apart – because they are wedded to the idea that only one football match actually matters. To that end they will do whatever it takes to ensure that it continues. They have long since dispensed with the notion that football is an interdependent industry, and incredibly, even those who are not participants in that match follow like sheep towards the abattoir.

The argument is no longer that one club cheated and got away with it. The debate that we need to have is one about what is paramount in the eyes of the clubs and the media . Is it the inegrity of sporting endeavour, or box-office?

For out part, independent sites like this have accelerated the print media’s demise, and there have been temporary successes in persuading the clubs to uphold the spirit of sport. However our role has up to now been to cast a spotlight on the inaccuracies, inconsistencies and downright lies that routinely pass for news. News that is imagined up by PR agencies and dutifully copied by the lazy pretend-journalists who betray no thought whatsoever during the process.

Despite our successes, it really is not enough. We have the means at our disposal to do more, but do more we need to change ourselves, because the authorities sure as hell aren’t gonna.

We need to provide meaningful insight into the game that removes the Old Firm prism from the light path. We need to provide news that has covered all of the angles. We need to entertain, inform and energise fans of sport and all clubs.

We need to do that from a wholly independent perspective. None of this refusing to tell the truth about club allegiances. There is no reason why intelligent men and women can’t be objective in spite of their own allegiances (although the corollary absolutely holds true).  Our experience of the MSM in this country is that the lack of arms-length principles in the media has corrupted it to such an extent that they barely recognise truth and objectivity. We need to be firm on those arms-length principles.

In order to do that we have put together a plan (with enough room to manoeuvre if required) as follows;

We will rebrand and re-launch as the Independent Sports Monitor. We have acquired the domains isMonitor.co.uk and IndependentSportsMonitor.co.uk, and those will be the main urls after the re-launch, hopefully later in the summer.

The change in name reflects the reality of our current debate which is not always confined to Scotland or football. It will also give us the option in future of applying the success of our model to other sports and jurisdictions through partner sites and blogs. This should also help in our efforts to raise funds in the future. However any expansion outwith the domain of Scottish football is some time away, and will depend on the success we have with the core model.

Our mission statement will be;

  1. ISM will seek to build a community of sports fans whose overarching aim is the integrity of competition in the sport.
  2. ISM will, without favour, seek to find objective truths on the conduct and administration of sport. We will avoid building relationships with individuals or organisations which would bring us into conflict with that.
  3. ISM will provide a platform for the views of ALL fans, and guarantee that those views will be heard in a mutually respectful environment.
  4. ISM will also endeavour to inform and entertain members on a wide range of topics related to our shared love of sport.
  5. ISM will seek to represent the views of sports fans to sporting authorities and hold the authorities to account.

We have estimated our (modest) costs to expand our role as per recent discussions. The expanded role will take the form of a new Internet Radio Channel where we hope to provide 24/7 content by the end of the year. It will also see a greater news role  where we will engage directly with clubs and authorities to seek answers to our questions directly.  And we will seek to contact the best fan sites across Scotland with a view to showcasing their content.

We have identified individuals who we want to work (initially on a part time basis) towards our objectives, we have identified premises where we want to conduct our business, and we hope to move into those premises during this summer.

To finance these plans there are a couple of stages;

  1. Initially (as soon as possible) we need to pay accommodation and hosting costs for the first year. To do so,  we hope to appeal to the community itself. Our aim is to raise around £5000 by the end of August.
  2. There are salary costs (around £15,000) attached to our first year plan, but these have been underwritten by Big Pink, and equipment costs (est. £3000). These will be reimbursed if the advertising campaign we recently started bears any fruit (we will not know about that for a few months).
  3. It will not be too discouraging if we make losses in the first couple of years, so if necessary we will seek crowd-funding to finance our plans if the resources of the community itself prove inadequate to smooth a path to break-even point.

Our first year may be a perilous hand-to-mouth existence, but I am certain the journey will be an exciting and enjoyable one. We will also need to search our community resources for contacts at clubs; players, officials, ex-players, local journalists etc. Please get in touch if you have any in at your club.

We also hope to tap into the expertise of our community for advice, comment and analysis of developments, and we will be looking for any aspiring presenters, journalists, sound and video editors, graphic designers (and lots of others) to help us find our feet. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully accepted.

We mustn’t lose sight of why we are doing this. It is because we love our sport, because we want to be able to continue to call it that, and because the disconnect we find in Scottish football, that of the conflicting interests of the fans and the money men, will never be addressed as long as the fans are hopelessly split.

The ultimate goal is to allow sport – not our individual clubs – to triumph over the greed and corporate troglodyte-ism of those people who run it. I am confident that we as a community desperately want to be able to make a difference. That is why I am confident we can achieve our aim of becoming a significant player in the game.

 

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

3,978 Comments so far

HomunculusPosted on12:56 pm - Aug 13, 2015


helpmaboab says:
Member: (74 comments)

August 13, 2015 at 9:31 am

EBTs are so morally repugnant that the Government can give you a seat in the House of Lords.

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ProhibbyPosted on1:03 pm - Aug 13, 2015


GerryMander says:
Member: (4 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 9:02 am
Comment on Why We Need to Change by tearsofjoy.

……. So yes, enjoy your success and enjoy winding Hibs fans up. Good for you that you haven’t thought for one minute about your unpaid bills. You are proof positive that the partisan nature of being a football fan means that the SFM project may be doomed to failure.

To be honest, 99% of Hibs fans I know would have accepted the cheating that Hearts got away with if we’d won the cup too. Maybe me too. So probably I’m just as bad as you. Count me out. ……..

…………………………

Gerry, you are not alone in resenting the extent of the winding up. There comes a point where winding up looses its innocent fun and becomes disrespectful and abusive. When that happens, it becomes bullying and creates victims. Sadly, the tribalism that Tayred referred to is a primitive instinct and brings out the primitive in even the higher primates, finding expression in behaviour such as bullying and scapegoating. It is important, I think, that when a team is struggling and in difficulty its following don’t allow itself to adopt a victim mentality. The old quip, ‘don’t kick a man when he is down, he is likely to get back up again’, has validity. My team, and yours I guess, are down at the moment but they will get back up again. Of that I am sure!

At times you may become disenchanted with the debate and some of the contributions here but this forum does serve to break down tribalism, at least among the contributors and hopefully will lead to enlightening the wider football loving community. Of that, I am truly hopeful!

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CarlylePosted on2:21 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Back from holiday and have been hurriedly going through the pages. RIFC filed a TM01 dated 12th August for the resignation of Douglas Park. Does anyone know anything about this or I have skipped a page or two ?

Also, re the appointment of Baker Tilly, IIRC their current national COO did business with the Murray EBT empire (being a tax man) when he was a partner with PKF. That is not to suggest that he has done anything illegal and I cannot track down the posts (which may have been on rtc) but I am sure there is previous there).

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andyPosted on2:31 pm - Aug 13, 2015


http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/13527084.Douglas_Park_resigns_from_Rangers_board/

from monday 3rd Aug

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CarlylePosted on2:36 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Thanks for the shortcut, Andy. That’s a great picture at the head of the article, all those birds circling above the entrance to Ibrox …

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neepheidPosted on2:50 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Carlyle says:
Member: (20 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 2:21 pm

Back from holiday and have been hurriedly going through the pages. RIFC filed a TM01 dated 12th August for the resignation of Douglas Park. Does anyone know anything about this or I have skipped a page or two ?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think the consensus on here was that Park had a serious health issue a few weeks ago, and that there was really nothing more to it than that. His son was appointed director in his place.

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CarlylePosted on3:00 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Cheers, Neepheid. All clear on that one, which is something I don’t get to say very often on Ibrox matters.

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celtic fc incorporated 1897Posted on3:22 pm - Aug 13, 2015


surely a wind up ? how would he actually get in the celtic midfield !? maybe loan him back to hibs 🙂

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11792/9947613/celtic-keen-on-signing-rangers-target-scott-allan-from-hibs

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AllyjamboPosted on3:45 pm - Aug 13, 2015


‘Nothing to see here. Move along now!’ Or, as it’s put in RIFC statements, ‘Now let’s concentrate on the football.’

The RIFC response to PMGB’s blog –

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/9840-board-statement

is nothing if not uninformative, but it does introduce this new deflection to the Scottish football lexicon.

Whether Phil’s information is accurate or not, the holes in the Ibrox PR piece, no doubt penned by Level5’s most famous ex-hack, are greater than the actual denial, leaving more questions than answers. Assuming the statement is 100% true, we now know that none of the board members of RIFC receive any payment for their role on the board. There was nothing there, though, that says no board members were receiving any payment whatsoever! And most noticeably, no mention of the men specifically mentioned in Phil’s original blog. I have never found any response, of any kind, to be of any value if it doesn’t address each point made and is as detailed as the writing it is responding to.

Seems a bit daft, not taking the opportunity to cut Phil down to size, and to stem any ammunition for the likes of John James, by missing, from this rare response – ‘As has been pointed out previously, it is not RIFC’s intention to respond to every malicious falsehood directed against our Club.’ – anything to make it clear that those named receive no payments, at all, from RIFC, and, of course, from TRFC.

In fact, their rather insipid response does make one realise how their previous lack of any retort was a very sensible tactic.

We do see, though, how proper journalism takes information received and creates a narrative that might force a response from a hitherto secretive institution. This, I’d say, is what the MSM should be doing whenever some such institution is suspected of hiding behind some PR screen, and is, well, behaving like RIFC/TRFC. This is particularly necessary when the institution has, at it’s centre, more than a whiff of criminality and a penchant for lies!

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Big PinkPosted on4:45 pm - Aug 13, 2015


In response to some of the negative views of the blog, I have to say personally that if we are only here to discuss Rangers, I have a finite appetite for that and would not have stuck around as long as I have.

There is in my opinion a level and a conduct of debate on here which is unique. Yes we have our off days/weeks, but I like to think that most of us on here have broadened our views a little – particularly when it comes to other clubs. I don’t think that is an insignificant thing.

As for the debates which break down along club lines, I think that is unavoidable. The job of the moderators is to keep it civil. We are in a different planet compared to other sites which have tried to achieve a cross-partisan base, and I think it is disappointing to be compared to them.

Every time we have debates like the Collins one, we lose a bunch of people. I think that is just evolution. There is little doubt that Celtic fans are the biggest single constituency here. My sense is that most of the active ones see that it gives them a responsibility not to overwhelm the blog with pro-Celtic content. In the past we have lost a few people who did just that. We also have lost people who object to the mods’ insistence on civility. We have lost people who think we are “too nice” to Rangers 🙂

We are far from perfect, but we are having a go at making it work. I would have thought that the most elegant way to leave is not to post any more. I think I can accept criticisms if they come from folk who stick around to make their point. Valedictorians serve no purpose other than a theatrical one.

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tayredPosted on5:14 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Big Pink says:
Moderator: (340 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 4:45 pm
In response to some of the negative views of the blog.

—————————————————————–

I hope my semi-lucid dribblings didn’t sound too negative BP. If it was all negative I wouldn’t still be logging in here and (like it or not) I’m still here! The problems the blog faces are not of it’s doing, they are problems of the wider football community.

But while we do spin off into random discussions, I wonder if there wasn’t still that central pillar that is TRFC would it still be so populous?

Personally I would really like to think so. I’d certainly miss the craic.

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StevieBCPosted on5:37 pm - Aug 13, 2015


From BBC Sport, so not entirley reliable…

“Celtic have made an offer of cash plus players to Hibernian for midfielder Scott Allan.
BBC Scotland has learned that Allan is prepared to consider an offer from the Premiership champions…”
==============================
If true: I think Allan’s ‘Rangersness’ will dissipate rather quickly based on the salary and European football on offer.
His agent will strongly advise him to ‘do the right thing’ I’m sure !

…and both Allan and Stubbs will be vilified by the bears, and/or the SMSM.

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Big PinkPosted on5:37 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Tayred

Not at all directed at you. Criticisms should be welcome on the blog where people ae trying to help make it a good place to come.

I just get a bit ticked off when people who are erstwhile silent, suddenly explode on their way out.

The Hearts thing is a case in point. If anyone thinks that they get too much respect on here where are the arguments for that? Stay and argue your case, not shuffle off in the huff with an ecobhoy-sized post in response to another you don’t like and – from a sample size of one – conclude that we are all doomed.

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Cygnus X-1Posted on5:45 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Haven’t posted for ages on here, but have read with great interest, all the comments and feedback(or should that be fallout) from the John Collins interview, which has certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons.

I am, as I have stated previously, a Celtic fan and like many on here,developed a far greater appreciation of all the other teams we play against, week in week out, in Scottish football, primarily, as a result of the Ibrox affair, where previously the entire prism of the game was seen through the eyes of two clubs only(certainly in the West of Scotland where I live)

Other clubs winning cups, Aberdeen challenging Celtic for 80% of last season, all of these are welcome developments in my view and even last night, I thoroughly enjoyed the Killie game, who I thought played with great spirit and gave it a real go….even Barcelona drop points occasionally..

However, on the substantive point, Collins is absolutely correct. Scottish footballers from EVERY team are simply not good enough technically. They are a whole host of reasons why historically this happens, but simply we do not put enough emphasis nor practice into improving technique.

I shudder with horror watching players from the SPFL, who cannot kick a ball with two feet(what do they do all day) or have a inability to control a ball with a good first touch. It is a prerequisite of the 10,000 hour rule to be able to achieve this basic requirement……..and Collins speaks from the perspective of actually having achieved it in his career.

In any walk of life, if someone is criticised, there is only two responses.

One is being played out in the media and on here, where we’re seeing JC criticised and condemned for having the temerity to utter such a thought, whereas the second response in my view, should be actually he’s right, and as a player, I should be working MUCH harder to improve my skills and perhaps I’ll have an international career like him……

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Big PinkPosted on5:50 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Tayred

We are actually not so populous as we were 🙂

I think there is little doubt that our audience size is inversely proportional to the good health of TRFC, but my view when we discuss this with other mods is that this is actually a good thing for us.

Will we have 50,000 page views per day when the Rangers thing withers on the vine? No, but we won’t disappear either, because only people with a seriously limited attention span think this is actually about Rangers.

This is about the governance of our game. Rangers may have benefitted enormously from the maladministration and the clubs’ individual and collective prepossession with short term cash, but really it could have been anyone else – and it will happen again – simply because no-one at the top has learned any lessons, precisely because they don’t believe there are any lessons to learn.

We exist not because Rangers cheated. We are here because of a disconnect at the heart of the most fundamental relationship in the game – between the clubs and the fans. I believe most of our number see that as a more important concept than the welfare of each individual club.

I don’t think that particular struggle will end quickly, and I also don’t think that most of us will give up on the blog ethos so easily either, because we won’t find that anywhere else.

That is what I am investing in with my pension fund over the next year or so, and I think it is a sound investment.

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tykebhoyPosted on6:21 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Cygnus X-1 says:
Member: (56 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 5:45 pm
[]
However, on the substantive point, Collins is absolutely correct. Scottish footballers from EVERY team are simply not good enough technically. They are a whole host of reasons why historically this happens, but simply we do not put enough emphasis nor practice into improving technique.

I shudder with horror watching players from the SPFL, who cannot kick a ball with two feet(what do they do all day) or have a inability to control a ball with a good first touch. It is a prerequisite of the 10,000 hour rule to be able to achieve this basic requirement…[]

Funny you should post that. The Englandshire Sun has a column by Simon Jordan (former Chairman of Crystal Palace) which he partly uses today to explain again to Greg Dyke why there are so few English Players in the EPL. Greg Dyke bemoaned this earlier in the week.

Paraphrasing a lot but Jordan is saying its all about the money and the work ethic. He says that once English players sign for an EPL club (or even FL) most think they “have arrived” so they then effectively do the bare minimum. They do the compulsory training but very few stay behind after for additional practice to further develop skills(Ronaldo and freekicks ❓ ) or work on weaknesses (improve weaker foot). These players then become the coaches and managers of the future and guess what they allow their players to get away with just the compulsory training.

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Cygnus X-1Posted on6:38 pm - Aug 13, 2015


tykebhoy says:
August 13th 2015 at 6.21pm

Tyke,

Jordan is correct in my opinion and of course he isn’t the first person to highlight this fact. And of course, it’s easy to blame clubs for this lack of ability amongst their employees, but for me, this comes from the individual himself. The best players have a hunger to improve and the improvement stems from practice, putting in hours laboriously and methodically over time.

I’m aware that in youth football the culture is changing, but having had exposure of working with young players and young people professionally, I wonder about the rigor, intellectual capability, attitude and behaviour of individual coaches and coaching as well?

Big subject and no simple answer, but JC is absolutely spot on

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easyJamboPosted on6:49 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Just listening to Sportsound, I heard Derek Ferguson say that £1M into a Swiss bank account was enough to sway Maurice Johnston into signing for Rangers in 1989 (Ferguson was at Ibrox at the time). I’m not sure whether he said it a bit tongue in cheek, but it didn’t sound that way to me and no-one on the panel followed upon the point.

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yakutsukiPosted on6:55 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Big Pink, I couldnn’t disagree with you more re people should just stop posting and not let us know why they’re leaving the blog.

If they just silently leave, we would never know why. I suppose we could just disappear into the sunset patting each others backs (The ones that are left that is.)

The other choice is to consider why people leave and to have an honest look at ourselves and ask if we can learn/improve when we are presented with the facts.

Or maybe there is a third way to see it – people leave blogs, it’s natural- tough!

We have lost a lot of valuable posters over the years, some weren’t my personal favourites – some were. I wish I knew why some of them lost their enthusiasm. That knowledge could only be a positive for me, even if it gave me a wake up call.

We can’t be everyone’s cup of tea, it’s impossible! That’s what attracts me to this blog. Other sites where most are agreeing and back-slapping leave me cold. I can learn nothing new from them

Sorry for the ramble, but I just value hearing people out, that’s all.
I don’t think it’s theatrics all the time.

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jean7brodiePosted on7:02 pm - Aug 13, 2015


I am in a blind panic!!!! All this talk of folk leaving etc. What would I do for the 12 hours a day I spend on here learning all this stuff 🙁
I am so grateful for all the words of wisdom and sound information I get on here. It prepares and educates me so that I can partake in so many informed discussions with others.

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RyanGoslingPosted on7:11 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Big Pink,

“because only people with a seriously limited attention span think this is actually about Rangers.”

It’s not all about the Rangers?!!!! WHAT?????!! How very dare you! 😆

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GoosyGoosyPosted on7:15 pm - Aug 13, 2015


valentinesclown says:
Member: (188 comments)
August 12, 2015 at 11:36 pm
Jimmy Bones says:
It cannot be possible in this day and age that all of these organisations are so afraid of the mob that they perpetrate the corruption and the lie.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Actually
That’s exactly the reason
Its no coincidence that
The SPL panel names were kept confidential from the mob
The Spokesman for the mob clamoured for their names to be made public
Making the names public caused intimidation of a RR Director who was a member of the panel
No apology was made by the spokesman for the mob

,,,,,,,
Nope
We live in a mob culture as far as TRFC is concerned
Fear of the mob keeps the MSM in line
Fear of the mob keeps the governing authorities in line
Fear of the mob keeps the Police and the Politicians in line

That’s the way it is in Scotland

Nasty.. isn’t it ?

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easyJamboPosted on7:24 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Interesting statement from Hearts on behalf of “Big Hearts”, who run the club’s community programme. Once again the current Hearts executive haven’t dodged or spun the issues that they have faced, which is extremely welcome, despite that illegality that has clearly occurred.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/4528

Today, 13th August 2015, a former employee of Big Hearts appeared in court and pleaded guilty to the charge of embezzlement.

An issue was identified in August 2013 which led to an immediate internal investigation within Big Hearts. As a result of that investigation an employee of Big Hearts was suspended with immediate effect and subsequently dismissed. Police Scotland and the Scottish Charity Regulator, OSCR, were also informed.

This incident pre-dated the current ownership of Hearts football club which is an entirely separate legal entity from Big Hearts. However, given the close relationship between the club and the charity, the incident was investigated by BIDCO during the due diligence exercise carried out in advance of the change of ownership. Mrs Budge said: “One of the options considered was to close the charity. However, the work being carried out plays a vital role in the community and it was important that it continued. It would be wrong that the charity and the community should suffer because of the criminal actions of one individual.”

Mrs Budge agreed to join the Board of Trustees of the charity and since then, along with those trustees, has been influential in reshaping the work, the focus and the restructuring of the Board of the charity.

The charity is satisfied that the systems now in place will mitigate exposure to any such risk in future.

The incident was fully disclosed in the charity accounts for 2012/13 and 2013/14. The Note to the Financial Statements in the Annual Accounts for 2013/14 stated:

“OSCR was kept fully and regularly informed after the discovery of a misappropriation and after reviewing the matter wrote to the Trustees confirming that they were satisfied with the actions taken by the Trustees and chief executive and that they had concluded their inquiries into the case.”

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on7:42 pm - Aug 13, 2015


tykebhoy says:
Member: (220 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 6:21 pm

Funny you should post that…

Paraphrasing a lot but Jordan is saying its all about the money and the work ethic. He says that once English players sign for an EPL club (or even FL) most think they “have arrived” so they then effectively do the bare minimum. They do the compulsory training but very few stay behind after for additional practice to further develop skills(Ronaldo and freekicks ❓ ) or work on weaknesses (improve weaker foot). These players then become the coaches and managers of the future and guess what they allow their players to get away with just the compulsory training.
===========================================================

Who sets the “bare minimum”?

The clubs & coaches.

Who can change it?

The very same clubs & coaches.

Perhaps Mr. Jordan should have encouraged his employees to do a bit more, rather than, several years later, bleating about how little they did during his tenure.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:10 pm - Aug 13, 2015


motor red says:
Member: (23 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 9:51 am
thing is upthehoops, john never resorts to naming the new club as rangers, while some like yourself are quite happy to label them as rangers and are buying into the smsm lies, even if you think otherwise, your normalizing the topic .
================================

I really don’t get your logic at all. Myself, or others, referring to a club admitted to the league as ‘Rangers’ by the name ‘Rangers’ does not mean we endorse or buy into anything.
It’s a flimsy argument to say the least.

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tykebhoyPosted on8:15 pm - Aug 13, 2015


@jingso I couldn’t agree more but there is a culture where the players are more powerful than the coaches and if the board don’t back the coaches…. The current Clyde manager managed to see of a certain French coach who wanted to bring in more rigorous training and the board blinked :mrgreen:

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HomunculusPosted on8:44 pm - Aug 13, 2015


upthehoops says:
Member: (826 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 8:10 pm

I agree.

I also think that calling the club Rangers actually makes it easier for people to engage civilly.

If for example I were to call the club Sevco, Newco Rangers or anything else like that I would expect Rangers supporters to immediately take a defensive position and not actually want to engage.

Accepting that 1, The new club is called Rangers and 2, That if the support choose to think of it as the same club they have supported for years then they are perfectly entitled to do so. It is a matter for them. It doesn’t actually change the facts of what happened though.

For me it makes it more likely that people will actually be willing to talk about things, and I see that as a good way forward. Obviously I am talking about decent people here, not neanderthals like the ones we read on the internet and occasionally are misfortunate enough to be unable to avoid meeting in real life. There is no reasoning with those who are unreasonable.

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RyanGoslingPosted on8:54 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Great post Homunculus.

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ianagainPosted on9:44 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Anybody ever get a follow up on this and the costs? Just out of interest.

————————————————-

COURT 10

Before MRS JUSTICE ASPLIN

Thursday, 11 June 2015

At half past 10

APPLICATIONS

Sports Direct International Plc v Rangers International Football Club

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southstandcharliePosted on9:45 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Is it not the case that the new club is not actually called Rangers at all, but “The Rangers”? I seem to recall that Charles Green announced this to great fanfare when he changed the company name from Sevco because the law of the land was such that he couldn’t just call it Rangers. Of course it would have been a deliberate and slippery ploy on his part to name it so, knowing that use of the “The” would quickly fall away, leaving it appearing to be one and the same.
The old club was “Rangers” and the new club “”The Rangers”. It might be conveniently very similar, but it’s still a DIFFERENT name and that is the fact that proves conclusively that it’s NOT the same club.

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John ClarkPosted on10:02 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (197 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 8:44 pm
‘..I also think that calling the club Rangers actually makes it easier for people to engage civilly..’
____________
With the utmost respect,I take the view that calling the club ‘Rangers’ encourages those who would try to deny the great evil that was done,and who are attempting to legitimise a wholly false and untrue sporting situation in a manner akin to letting offenders keep their ill-gotten gains because their crime happened some time ago.

The club playing at Ibrox must not be accepted in the official records as being Rangers Football Club founded in 1872.
It quite patently under the law is at best The Rangers Football Club Ltd, founded in 2012.
Now, I personally don’t give a tuppenny fig if Supporters kid themselves. They are free to do so to any extent they like.

But I very much resent the fact that the official Sports body were and are willing to falsify the Sporting records by joining in the phantasy- a phantasy which they themselves brought about by their deceitful and cowardly dereliction of duty.
As with offenders under criminal law, there can be no negotiation with the Football authorities on this issue. They have to restore truth to Scottish Football, and apologise for their deceit, chicanery and black propaganda.
If they cannot do that, then they should get the hell out of our faces and make way for honest men.

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melbournedeePosted on10:11 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Any confirmation of this?

Kenny Macintyre ‏@bbckennymac 15m15 minutes ago
.@celtic fans Scott Allan’s been at Lennoxtown tonight fee of around £275,000 agreed with @HibsOfficial + McGeough permnnt & Henderson loan

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CastofthousandsPosted on10:16 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1353 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 8:28 am

” Probably irrelevant, but who was the Mr AA Mohammed who left the board in July? Mather and Stockbridge also previous board members…”
———————————
Craig Mather was the Directorial link I was trying to make with Rangers Youth Development the other evening.

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Big PinkPosted on10:29 pm - Aug 13, 2015


melbournedee says:
Member: (48 comments)

August 13, 2015 at 10:11 pm
________________________________________

Not wishing to get involved with the merits or otherwise of Scott Allan as a player, but the politics of the situation are intriguing. I think Hibs have – up to now at any rate – played it just right.
I also think that Barcabhoy obviously knows more than he lets on to me 🙂

On Saturday, he said this;

My feeling is that Hibs though have better players than Rangers and if Stubbs continues to improves them at the same rate as last year, then they will win the League. McGinn is a huge signing for Hibs and i suspect they might well be the beneficiary of a couple of very talented loan players before the end of this month

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Cluster OnePosted on10:38 pm - Aug 13, 2015


Castofthousands says:
Member: (282 comments)

August 13, 2015 at 10:16 pm

Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1353 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 8:28 am

” Probably irrelevant, but who was the Mr AA Mohammed who left the board in July? Mather and Stockbridge also previous board members…”
———————————
Craig Mather was the Directorial link I was trying to make with Rangers Youth Development the other evening.

—————————–
I asked about the youth development the other night,Maybe i asked the question in the wrong way.
Is the youth development (rising stars,lotto,bricks)
Who runs this program,and who gets the profits? Is it a separate company? Who makes the profit from rising stars,lotto,bricks.As it has had one or two times been pushed into the limelight by the SMSM,with no actual story to it just a free advertisment

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woodsteinPosted on10:53 pm - Aug 13, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1090 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 10:02 pm
——————————————————-
I know what you did there JC 😆

phantasy
noun
noun: phantasy; plural noun: phantasies
1. variant spelling of fantasy
2. (restricted to archaic uses) or, in modern use, to the fields of ( psychology and psychiatry). 😉

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MercDocPosted on11:00 pm - Aug 13, 2015


A blog can never be the same as it was before, we don’t have the heavyweights of knowledge as we did. Corsica and Paul are no longer here and that hurts.
The blog can grow and I don’t know of any another blog that contributes and cares so much as this one!
The blog started from a narrow view and is still relatively young, finding its feet.
It view will broaden ( as it has ) and more heavyweights appear, it just takes time!
Anyway, Albion Rovers seem to be doing OK, :mrgreen:
Only Iron Men from the Iron Burgh!

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John ClarkPosted on11:11 pm - Aug 13, 2015


woodstein says:
Member: (140 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 10:53 pm
‘..I know what you did there JC ?’
________
Ha,ha. I wish I could claim credit for any cleverness! But being old enough to be archaic, I think I was thinking ‘phantom’ and went with the ‘ph’ spelling.How serendipitous that the archaic spelling has the psychiatry connection! 😀

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RyanGoslingPosted on11:14 pm - Aug 13, 2015


I’d be interested to see the reaction on here if a lower league side, let’s say Clyde, were managed by a former Rangers player and had a hot young property who was a life long Celtic fan and out of contract next year, Celtic had low balled a couple of offers and then all of a sudden the player was being strongly linked with Rangers. I have a feeling that there would be disgust at the old boys club and how the ex Rangers employee was stifling the dreams of the young man going to Celtic. Its very hypothetical obviously, but I think that is a thought provoking scenario we should all consider in light of the recent discussions of partisanship rearing its ugly head on this blog.

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HomunculusPosted on11:32 pm - Aug 13, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1091 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 10:02 pm

There have been very many “great evils” done in the history of mankind.

Calling a football club “Rangers” is not one of them.

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ParadisebhoyPosted on11:43 pm - Aug 13, 2015


RyanGosling says:
Member: (204 comments)

August 13, 2015 at 11:14 pm

Ryan , for this analogy to work , surely Clyde and Celtic would have to be in the same division ?

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woodsteinPosted on11:50 pm - Aug 13, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1091 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 11:11 pm
——————————————

Serendipity just got better. :irony:

phantasm
noun
literary
noun: phantasm; plural noun: phantasms

1.an illusion, apparition, or ghost.
archaic

an illusory likeness of something. :mrgreen:

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motor redPosted on11:57 pm - Aug 13, 2015


hom and hoop IMO are letting ego take front position over rational, it happens to the best of us from time to time..defending the indefensible maybe their choice but the new club are TRFC end of story.
the real enemy are the footballing authorities / club directors and the SMSM.
yes hom its not a great evil,but its still an evil that’s excepting of evil, IMO.

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John ClarkPosted on12:00 am - Aug 14, 2015


RyanGosling says:
Member: (204 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 11:14 pm
‘…I’d be interested to see the reaction on here if a lower league side, let’s say Clyde, were managed by a former Rangers player .’
_________
Well, my personal hope is that the general reaction would be the same as mine: an overall feeling that ‘business rivalry’ had stepped over the boundary into the area of utterly unsporting, dirty, spoiling tactics.

I did not post on the Scott Allan affair.

This was because, while I thought it was an unsporting and cynical ploy ( and if Allan were my son I would have spitting blood at the cynicism!), as far as I could see, the various ‘businesses’ that make up the SPFL seem not to regard it as against ‘the rules’, in the way, for instance, that non-disclosure of payments to players is against the rules.

And if it is not actually against the rules, who am I to comment?

But if my team went down the same cynical, unsporting, road I would be as dismayed as I would be if they were to employ, say, a biter (or, indeed, a spitter).
I share Big Pink’s view that this blog will develop and grow into an instrument that will an effective voice in encouraging the business men whose business is the football business to work together to ensure that true essence of their business is ‘Sport’, with every emphasis on sporting competition in accordance with agreed rules and just and proper and transparent and proportionate enforcement of all the agreed rules.
And I think that there should be a clear rule about attempts to de-stabilise an immediate-rival club by unsettling its players through carefully orchestrated and media-hyped bids for players.

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John ClarkPosted on12:25 am - Aug 14, 2015


Homunculus says:
Member: (198 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 11:32 pm
‘..There have been very many “great evils” done in the history of mankind.
Calling a football club “Rangers” is not one of them.’
_______
Again with the greatest respect, Homunculus, context is everything.

The breach of trust by the football authorities obviously has not the same effects as, say, the breach of trust of a Prime minister who lies to Parliament and leads his/her country into war!

But in the context of the arrangements under which a number of small businesses have competitive ‘sport’ as their business, and have a set of rules, and sanctions for breaking those rules, within which they agree to run their businesses,and have a body of their members to direct and govern the operation of those rules, corruption of that body is as devastating a blow to the integrity of the sport as an unnecessary war is to the body politic.
What our Football Authorities did, and what they continue to do, is an affront to any notion of Sporting competition.

Bad as was SDM’s sporting offence was, it was as nothing compared to the breach of trust, and disregard of truth and honour, committed by the SFA etc.
In context.

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AuldheidPosted on1:10 am - Aug 14, 2015


John Clark 12.25

One of the reasons that you can run a legal bus through football rules is because they depend to a very large extent on not having to police them because the parties expect the sporting spirit of the business to protect it from skullduggery.

The UEFA licence process for example, certainly at the first monitoring point in June of each year, is done under a self certification regime where trust is the basis.

If you certify something is true but it isn’t, you just haven’t broken a rule for your own ends, you have broken the trust system and make policing an expensive requirement or you make the consequences of such a breach so severe it will persuade others that it simply does not pay to be dishonest.

Football authority wants it both ways – no rigorous policing but no severe consequences as a detterent.

That is the dilemma they do not wish to face so they pretend or deny anything serious really took place.

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John ClarkPosted on1:43 am - Aug 14, 2015


Auldheid says:
Blog Writer: (518 comments)
August 14, 2015 at 1:10 am
‘..If you certify something is true but it isn’t, you just haven’t broken a rule for your own ends, you have broken the trust system..’
____
Precisely.

The damage caused by breach of trust and honour is incalculable, in any sphere.

When we hear of even one player who bets against his own team in a game in which he is actually playing,does it not make us look with a critical eye at ill-judged tackles that cause a penalty? or poorly taken penalty kicks?

When it becomes public knowledge that a referee is essentially biased, are not all referees viewed with a degree of suspicion?

What, then, if the very Football authorities are guilty of secret deals, and myth-making lies and the ignoring of their very own laws?

The notion of trust goes absolutely out the window!
Can trust be restored,ever?

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Paulmac2Posted on2:29 am - Aug 14, 2015


Rumour has it THE Rangers are about to make an eleventh hour bid to match the Celtic offer…275k pus Ally McCoist and a loanee in the shape of Moshni (who was released, but don’t tell Hibs) with McCoist being valued at 860k (his salary) that should seal the deal according to an Ibrox insider… :mrgreen:

McCoist was unavailable for comment… 😉

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scottcPosted on5:20 am - Aug 14, 2015


southstandcharlie says:
Member: (10 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 9:45 pm
Is it not the case that the new club is not actually called Rangers at all, but “The Rangers”? I seem to recall that Charles Green announced this to great fanfare when he changed the company name from Sevco because the law of the land was such that he couldn’t just call it Rangers. Of course it would have been a deliberate and slippery ploy on his part to name it so, knowing that use of the “The” would quickly fall away, leaving it appearing to be one and the same.
The old club was “Rangers” and the new club “”The Rangers”. It might be conveniently very similar, but it’s still a DIFFERENT name and that is the fact that proves conclusively that it’s NOT the same club.

Actually, no. The old club was ALSO called ‘THE Rangers Footbal Club plc’. The only difference to the name that Charlie chose was that his Rangers company was ‘Limited’ rather than a Plc

Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
31/07/2012 THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:21 am - Aug 14, 2015


RyanGosling says:
Member: (204 comments)
August 13, 2015 at 11:14 pm
I’d be interested to see the reaction on here if a lower league side, let’s say Clyde, were managed by a former Rangers player and had a hot young property who was a life long Celtic fan and out of contract next year, Celtic had low balled a couple of offers and then all of a sudden the player was being strongly linked with Rangers. I have a feeling that there would be disgust at the old boys club and how the ex Rangers employee was stifling the dreams of the young man going to Celtic. Its very hypothetical obviously, but I think that is a thought provoking scenario we should all consider in light of the recent discussions of partisanship rearing its ugly head on this blog.
===========================================

If Scott Allan does sign for Celtic let’s wait and see what he says. He has said nothing so far and his ‘thought’s have been given to us only by media people trying to force Hibs to sell him to Rangers. Perhaps playing for Celtic and all that brings will be enough to tell him dreams do come true. Supporting Rangers did no harm to people like Jock Stein, Kenny Dalglish, and Danny McGrain who all remain Celtic legends, one of whom was the most successful, pivotal manager the club has ever had. Seceral other Rangers fans have had very successful Celtic careers. There is also the football aspect, which despite the PR campaign on behalf of Warburton’s Rangers does not bear real comparison. Celtic are guaranteed Europe till at least Christmas, and possibly in the Champions League. Celtic will not have to take out crisis loans to pay Scott Allan’s wages either. The most overriding aspect for me though is that Celtic are where they are today because they don’t spend money for reasons other than they think they will get value. Signings have not worked out in the past of course, but I think the sound business ethos of Celtic is proof enough they don’t throw a few hundred grand and a player away just to say ‘get it up ye’.

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neepheidPosted on8:14 am - Aug 14, 2015


What the Scott Allen saga tells me is that someone has superglued the padlock on Dave King’s “warchest”. Or maybe just taken his key away. The most likely suspect is the South African exchange control authority, the second favourite King’s children, who maybe don’t fancy seeing their inheritance chucked away on their old man’s boyhood dreams.

If King could readily access a few million of his own money, then surely this player would have been signed weeks ago. Of course, some more transfer money might appear today and prove me totally wrong.

Another strange thing is the noticeable drop recently in output from the Level 5 spin machine. Have they not been paid, seems the obvious question, and if not, who else isn’t getting paid?

I expected the ST money to see them through to Christmas. If money is tight now, then that is a very worrying sign.

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HighlanderPosted on8:24 am - Aug 14, 2015


Without wishing to reignite the Old Club/New Club debate, I advise my bluenose mates who insist that only the company died, not the club, that it was the company that employed the players who won 54 titles, not the club. The club according to LNS, has no legal personality. They will not therefore add to their world record haul since the legal entity that employed the players is incontrovertibly dead.

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oddjobPosted on8:43 am - Aug 14, 2015


Big Pink referred yesterday to posters leaving the site. His comments prompted me to ask about a prolific contributor to the blog,who has not been heard from for a couple of months. I know Ecobhoy said he “would not be here”,but I read no similar statement from MCFC.

Anyone with any news on this ?

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HirsutePursuitPosted on8:45 am - Aug 14, 2015


There is a Chinese motor manufacturer who sells cars it calls MG and uses the same badge that was used by the British motor manufacturer.

No-one pretends they are the same motor manufacturer – but the current incarnation bought the assets out of administration – including the name, so can legally use it and refers to the history of the marque on its website.

If we are saying that people should follow the laws and regulations, I can’t see how we can object (from that perspective) if the new club calls itself Rangers.

It purchased the brand – sold it to Sport Direct – and for now has a licence to use it.

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HomunculusPosted on8:48 am - Aug 14, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1094 comments)

August 14, 2015 at 12:25 am

Again, all I can repeat is that to describe calling a football club Rangers a “great evil” is in my opinion simply wrong and at best hyperbole. If however you truly believe it then my priorities and yours are way different. Indeed given the support your position is getting as compared to mine my priorities are way different from the majority of people who express an opinion here.

With regards your context argument. I am not a big fan of debate by analogy, however going with the theme. In the context of two 5 years old playing together and one stealing a sherbet dab from the other is, in that context, a dreadful offence. At least from the point of view of the victim. She is distraught, offended, hurt, snackless.

However to describe it as a “great evil” would just be wrong. The context is irrelevant.

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HomunculusPosted on9:07 am - Aug 14, 2015


motor red says:
Member: (24 comments)

August 13, 2015 at 11:57 pm

Does your rule that The Rangers can only be referred to as The Rangers spread to every other football club. Must we refer to every club by their full recognised name.

West Bromwich Albion must always be referred to as such, we cannot shorten it to West Brom. What about The Baggies, is that to be allowed in your strict system.

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tayredPosted on9:30 am - Aug 14, 2015


I’m kinda with Homunculus on this one. Here I always use TRFC for new club & RFC for old. Out in the non-SFM world its just Rangers. That’s what they are known as, that’s what they are always going to be called. Rightly or wrongly that particular ship has sailed and fighting that battle to my mind isn’t worthwhile. I fully understand why it is important to many, it feels like submitting to the mob discussed earlier. But, again rightly or wrongly (and yes I think wrongly) it smacks too much of being petty to the mob, it’s to easily fobbed off by the media as such.

I think we need to concentrate on the big issues, the issues that brought us here – the issues of underhand administration, of frankly defrauding every supporter of Scottish football (and yes RFC/TRFC supporters are very much part of that) and every other horror story that’s brought to these pages.

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SmugasPosted on9:38 am - Aug 14, 2015


Just wanted to touch base BRIEFLY! on the oc/nc thing.

HP. (On the basis MG won lots of rally titles – no idea if they did or not) who won the titles? The MG Brand? Prior to the purchase it obviously wasn’t the Chinese company.

Trying to pull loads of comments together I can’t get my head around that ‘the brand’ can win titles, since amongst numerous other problems, it allows ‘the brand’ to win, dump debt and repeat ad nausea.

Absolutely understand the fans’ shorthand, this being the brand then, the brand now etc. The wee lads’ scarves will still be the same red white and blue. but that cannot extend to official records. As Auldheid says, the authorities want their cake (the brand to continue which I understand) and eat it (the brand not to do anything considered wholly unscrupulous in order to achieve said position).

Up until now the self certification approach to this has, by and large, worked. But I think its highly optimistic, not least given the CL money stakes now on offer, to assume that it was a one-off if matters are to go entirely unchecked.

Just my thoughts.

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SmugasPosted on9:44 am - Aug 14, 2015


Homunculas @ 9.07

Apologies our posts crossed.

No, the West Brom fans can call their club anything they like as I have on several ‘coupon related’ instances! If WBA (by default mark 1) win the cup and liquidate then WBA are recorded as cup winners. If a reformed WBA#2 win the next cup then the fans can still call then West Brom or whatever. Their fans will claim 2 cups. Every other fan, not least the beaten finalists will argue 1+1. The one place WBA cannot claim to have done this is the record books.

Unless you want a repeat scenario, over and over.

Good luck maintaining other fans interest if that’s the case.

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SmugasPosted on9:52 am - Aug 14, 2015


And finally, just on Scott Allen.

Cheeky though the bid undoubtedly is, you cannot overlook that Hibs are not selling to their direct competitors, and indeed may even be strengthening by getting two players in return.

However Celtic shouldn’t get too comfortable in their own way.

This bid allows Sevco to now spend within their budget on another player who can come in without the pressure that Allen would have been under as opposed to breaking the bank for a player who’s value was being inflated purely (and correctly) by virtue of being from a direct competitor.

Still don’t see it from Allen’s point of view of course (well I do, I’d take his wage in a second being truthful). Mind the splinters, that’s all I’m saying!

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Corrupt officialPosted on9:59 am - Aug 14, 2015


John Clark says:
Member: (1094 comments)
August 14, 2015 at 1:43 am

“The notion of trust goes absolutely out the window!
Can trust be restored,ever?
========================================================
Yes, When the untrusty are removed from office, and replaced by people of trust prepared to re-examine, in a frank and open manner what has past.
It may be too late to right the wrongs, but i would be happy just to have them “write” the wrongs, and for the truth to stand as an honest, if somewhat tarnished episode of Scottish fitba’ history.
From there we can move forward.

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jimboPosted on9:59 am - Aug 14, 2015


I remember at the time being astonished when Charles Green announced the new names of the Company & the Club.

As I understood it a Phoenix company could not use the liquidated company’s name or similar.

From Wikipedia on Phoenix companies:

Indicators.

Several common characteristics have been identified as indicating harmful phoenix activity:[5]
1.the failed entity is formed with only a nominal share capital
2.the failed entity is under-capitalized
3.the directors/managers/controllers of the failed and successor company are the same
4.the failed entity is trading whilst insolvent
5.assets of the failed company are depleted shortly before the cessation of business
6.the failed company makes preferential payments to key creditors to assure supply to the successor company
7.the failed entity was operated to evade prior liabilities
8.the successor company operates in the same industry
9.the successor company trades with the same or similar name
10.the successor company commences trading immediately prior to, or within 12 months of, the cessation of the failed entity
11.assets of the failed company are transferred at below market value to the successor company
12.many of the employees of the failed company are re-employed by the successor company.

It’s a pity the regulators didn’t insist on a materially different name e.g. The Ibrox FC.

Would have put this oc/nc debate to bed once and forever.

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Methilhill StrollerPosted on10:05 am - Aug 14, 2015


I am with Neepheid on the Scott Allan affair in that it could easily have happened if DCK had found the keys to his trouser pockets and persuaded the RSA authorities to let him send some pocket money to Glasgow.

The media have started this off merely mentioning the fee but not adding any estimated value on the worth of the player in exchange and the loan player (or who is paying his salary – not yet clear if Celtic, Hibs or a combination). Obviously Celtic have offered more than TRFC/Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco etc so Celtic get a good young player they can work with and Hibs appear happy too. I also think there is one team in the Championship in particular who, above all others, cannot argue with loan players!

Summary – Firstly Hibs get money for a player who is distracted and shows signs of wanting away, secondly they get a sale now instead of nothing in January, thirdly they get a couple of replacement players as part of the deal (so adds value), fourthly they do not strengthen an immediate rival, and finally they are likely to receive the money from Celtic who do have both the cash and a credit line from a bank!

What could possibly be wrong about that? Sounds like good business. Derek Johnstone can whinge all he likes but to be honest he would be better concentrating on winning promotion first as opposed to dreaming of what is going to happen next season. If he has any doubts he only needs to look back and see how last season ended.

Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath and East Fife.

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HomunculusPosted on10:06 am - Aug 14, 2015


Smugas says:
Member: (902 comments)

August 14, 2015 at 9:44 am

I agree

Rangers is being liquidated (it hasn’t actually died yet as most people seem to suggest, it still exists only it is being operated by BDO who are in the process of liquidating it’s assets with a view to winding it up).

Meanwhile a new club has been formed. It’s official title is The Rangers FC, however it is known to it’s fans, and referred to by a lot of others, as Rangers. This is no different from other clubs’ supporters, and other people, referring to a football club by a shortened version of the official name. Let’s say for example Hearts or Hibs, I don’t think anyone would object to those.

However me, or anyone else, calling them Rangers does not change the simple fact. It is a different club.

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tykebhoyPosted on10:11 am - Aug 14, 2015


@Smugas and what a budget, hey! Weren’t all 3 TRFC offers for staged (installment) payments? Hardly a ringing endorsement of the “whatever it takes” and “over invesment” statements which are fast appearing to be rhetoric without substance. There are a lot of claims of being duped or duping others in affairs at Ibrox over the last four and a half years but I think the biggest duper of the lot is DCK in his utterings immediately before and after the hostile takeover of the RIFC board.

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bfbpuzzledPosted on10:29 am - Aug 14, 2015


The definite article was used of the old club also when referring to the myth and the legends of bygone days of yore so to speak. I was pulling pints in a public house, once called at a time within living memory “The King William of Orange Bar”, one of the customers apropos of nothing says “The Rangers are Scotland’ that would not be the same without the The. Having said that the claim was so out of my way of thinking that I had no response other than incomprehension.

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scapaflowPosted on11:02 am - Aug 14, 2015


Fom a legal standpoint the club died. However, as I have argued before, football clubs become part of a fans identity to one degree or another. So while I think of Rangers as Rangers MkII, I am relaxed about other people’s nomenclature.

What the football authorities have done is reduce the idea of a football club to a brand, so strictly speaking “The Rangers Football Club” actually belongs lock stock and logo to Mike Ashley does it not?

I’ll get ma coat :mrgreen:

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HirsutePursuitPosted on11:03 am - Aug 14, 2015


The distinction between a brand name and a football club is quite clear.

Livingston Football Club as a brand came into existence in 1994. As a football club it has existed since 1943. First as Ferranti Amateurs, Ferranti Thistle, Meadowbank Thistle and latterly as Livingston. The club honours include a 2nd Div title from 1987 when known as Meadowbank Thistle.

Airdrieonians as a brand has returned in 2013 after a gap of 11 years. As a club it has existed since 1965. First as Clydebank, Airdrie United and latterly as Airdrieonians. The club honours include a 2nd Div title from 1976 when known as Clydebank. It claims no honours won by the previous Airdrieonians FC, (including 3 top Div titles and a Scottish cup) which existed from 1878 until its dissolution in 2013. It, of course, ceased operations in 2002.

So, in this country, the honours have hitherto been recognised as held by the club – not the brand.

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wottpiPosted on11:08 am - Aug 14, 2015


If Scott Allan does end up at Celtic will some T’Rangers fans finally acknowledge their club is skint, King has very deep pockets and McCoist was a numpty manager when it came to securing young talent.

From December 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16187975

From May 2014
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-boss-ally-mccoist-set-3579547

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wee_alphaPosted on11:09 am - Aug 14, 2015


The definite article was used of the old club also when referring to the myth and the legends of bygone days of yore so to speak. I was pulling pints in a public house, once called at a time within living memory “The King William of Orange Bar”, one of the customers apropos of nothing says “The Rangers are Scotland’ that would not be the same without the The. Having said that the claim was so out of my way of thinking that I had no response other than incomprehension.
_______________________________________________________________________

My late grandfather always referred to Rangers as the The Rangers. He used to say things like “I see the Rangers are playing tonight” or “I was just reading about the Rangers in the paper.” He was a Rangers supporter although I don’t know if he ever went to see them play, he certainly didn’t in all the time I knew him.

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John ClarkPosted on11:35 am - Aug 14, 2015


Who do you think said this:”We know that FIFA needs reform.There needs to be transparency and openness around how decisions are made”?

Would you believe it was none other than the CEO of the SFA? ( as quoted in ‘The Scotsman’ today).

Could there be anything more nauseously hypocritical, and could Stephen Halliday have kept a look of contemptuous amusement from passing over his face as he listened to that guff from a man who huddles in secret, oath-bound conclave to abandon the notion of sporting integrity for the sake of a new club?

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Hoopy 7Posted on11:46 am - Aug 14, 2015


Good Morning
Big Pink referred to posters leaving the site.

I’ve not left but have not posted for a while.
Still an avid reader every single day.

I must confess to being something of a John Clark groupie. He seems to say what I would like to say and embodies what the site is all about.

For the avoidance of doubt it is not about “The Rangers” new or old it is about the corrupt governance of our game and the only people who can change it are the fans.

Fans need to keep delivering the message until the chairmen of the clubs who have the vote, wake up to the fact that the less transparent ones need to go.

Have a good day

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TincksPosted on12:53 pm - Aug 14, 2015


Picking up on the discussion regarding the strengths and weaknesses of the blog.

IMHO this is just about the most civilised level of debate I’ve found in an on line community (most certainly football community). Yes, occasionally there is a defensiveness amongst some in relation to their own club and this is what tends to lead to the occasional circular debate, but these generally don’t last long.

Partisanship does very strange things to some people. One of the most decent blokes I know is a Liverpool supporter but nobody can discuss footie with him without it degenerating into a pantomime.

The MSM is so ridiculously poor and is ripe for taking by a new entrant into the market such as SFM.

BP is right, the blog has its off days but if there is a friendlier and more open space out there for people to discuss and debate their passion then I’d like to see it.

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incredibleadamsparkPosted on1:07 pm - Aug 14, 2015


Not sure if Celtic is right for Allan. He is 23 and last season was his first as a regular starter and with a strong midfield I can’t see him getting many starts for Celtic. Especially as he lacks footballing cleverness and quickness of mind. Maybe that’ll be instantly bestowed on him by JC the second he pulls on the hoops? I think he should aim higher than Rangers too but if he wants to stay in Scotland his options seem fairly limited. A talented player so good luck to him.

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ProhibbyPosted on1:31 pm - Aug 14, 2015


Methilhill Stroller says:
August 14, 2015 at 10:05 am

Thanks MS, you say pretty much what I would like to have said, only better.

I would like to add that in this deal, Hibs look as though they have got the very best deal for Scott Allan that could be got at this time. It is so much better than the derisory offers coming from Ibrox that, in no way, could the Celtic deal be considered as ‘cheeky’ or anywhere near comparable to Ryan’s ‘what if’ scenario. At the end of the day, it was becoming evident that Hibs were taking a big risk, beyond the purely financial, in holding on to a young player likely to become increasingly unsettled by the pressures to move to Ibrox. The Celtic deal, if it goes through, looks as though it will bring real, up front, spending money to Hibs as well as a quality young player who proved his worth last season and possibly another decent loan player into the bargain. Neither Hibs or Scott Allan are losers in this deal and I guess that Celtic are unlikely to lose out either.

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