Over the past couple of years, we have built a healthy, vibrant and influential community which recognises the need to counter the corporate propaganda spouted by the mainstream media on behalf of the football authorities.
The media have, not entirely but in the main, been hostage to the patronage of those in charge of the club/media links, and to the narrow demographic of their readership. Despite a continuing rejection of the media’s position by that readership (in terms of year on year slump in sales) there is an obstinate refusal to see what is by now inevitable – the death of the print media. The lamb metaphor in fact ironically moving to the slaughter.
The football authorities in Scotland, once the country that gave the world the beautiful game, are rigid with fear that their own world will fall apart – because they are wedded to the idea that only one football match actually matters. To that end they will do whatever it takes to ensure that it continues. They have long since dispensed with the notion that football is an interdependent industry, and incredibly, even those who are not participants in that match follow like sheep towards the abattoir.
The argument is no longer that one club cheated and got away with it. The debate that we need to have is one about what is paramount in the eyes of the clubs and the media . Is it the inegrity of sporting endeavour, or box-office?
For out part, independent sites like this have accelerated the print media’s demise, and there have been temporary successes in persuading the clubs to uphold the spirit of sport. However our role has up to now been to cast a spotlight on the inaccuracies, inconsistencies and downright lies that routinely pass for news. News that is imagined up by PR agencies and dutifully copied by the lazy pretend-journalists who betray no thought whatsoever during the process.
Despite our successes, it really is not enough. We have the means at our disposal to do more, but do more we need to change ourselves, because the authorities sure as hell aren’t gonna.
We need to provide meaningful insight into the game that removes the Old Firm prism from the light path. We need to provide news that has covered all of the angles. We need to entertain, inform and energise fans of sport and all clubs.
We need to do that from a wholly independent perspective. None of this refusing to tell the truth about club allegiances. There is no reason why intelligent men and women can’t be objective in spite of their own allegiances (although the corollary absolutely holds true). Our experience of the MSM in this country is that the lack of arms-length principles in the media has corrupted it to such an extent that they barely recognise truth and objectivity. We need to be firm on those arms-length principles.
In order to do that we have put together a plan (with enough room to manoeuvre if required) as follows;
We will rebrand and re-launch as the Independent Sports Monitor. We have acquired the domains isMonitor.co.uk and IndependentSportsMonitor.co.uk, and those will be the main urls after the re-launch, hopefully later in the summer.
The change in name reflects the reality of our current debate which is not always confined to Scotland or football. It will also give us the option in future of applying the success of our model to other sports and jurisdictions through partner sites and blogs. This should also help in our efforts to raise funds in the future. However any expansion outwith the domain of Scottish football is some time away, and will depend on the success we have with the core model.
Our mission statement will be;
- ISM will seek to build a community of sports fans whose overarching aim is the integrity of competition in the sport.
- ISM will, without favour, seek to find objective truths on the conduct and administration of sport. We will avoid building relationships with individuals or organisations which would bring us into conflict with that.
- ISM will provide a platform for the views of ALL fans, and guarantee that those views will be heard in a mutually respectful environment.
- ISM will also endeavour to inform and entertain members on a wide range of topics related to our shared love of sport.
- ISM will seek to represent the views of sports fans to sporting authorities and hold the authorities to account.
We have estimated our (modest) costs to expand our role as per recent discussions. The expanded role will take the form of a new Internet Radio Channel where we hope to provide 24/7 content by the end of the year. It will also see a greater news role where we will engage directly with clubs and authorities to seek answers to our questions directly. And we will seek to contact the best fan sites across Scotland with a view to showcasing their content.
We have identified individuals who we want to work (initially on a part time basis) towards our objectives, we have identified premises where we want to conduct our business, and we hope to move into those premises during this summer.
To finance these plans there are a couple of stages;
- Initially (as soon as possible) we need to pay accommodation and hosting costs for the first year. To do so, we hope to appeal to the community itself. Our aim is to raise around £5000 by the end of August.
- There are salary costs (around £15,000) attached to our first year plan, but these have been underwritten by Big Pink, and equipment costs (est. £3000). These will be reimbursed if the advertising campaign we recently started bears any fruit (we will not know about that for a few months).
- It will not be too discouraging if we make losses in the first couple of years, so if necessary we will seek crowd-funding to finance our plans if the resources of the community itself prove inadequate to smooth a path to break-even point.
Our first year may be a perilous hand-to-mouth existence, but I am certain the journey will be an exciting and enjoyable one. We will also need to search our community resources for contacts at clubs; players, officials, ex-players, local journalists etc. Please get in touch if you have any in at your club.
We also hope to tap into the expertise of our community for advice, comment and analysis of developments, and we will be looking for any aspiring presenters, journalists, sound and video editors, graphic designers (and lots of others) to help us find our feet. Any offers of assistance would be gratefully accepted.
We mustn’t lose sight of why we are doing this. It is because we love our sport, because we want to be able to continue to call it that, and because the disconnect we find in Scottish football, that of the conflicting interests of the fans and the money men, will never be addressed as long as the fans are hopelessly split.
The ultimate goal is to allow sport – not our individual clubs – to triumph over the greed and corporate troglodyte-ism of those people who run it. I am confident that we as a community desperately want to be able to make a difference. That is why I am confident we can achieve our aim of becoming a significant player in the game.
A bit late to the party but some thoughts on the planned expansion of SFM into ISM.
Firstly, The reason everyone is here is concern for the wellbeing of Scottish football and the integrity of its competitions. I think the most important thing above all else is that no matter how far (or not) other plans progress everyone on here should still be able to enjoy debating on the floor (or just browsing) SFM with as little disruption as possible. The core of SFM must be recognisable and I think Trisidium has given those assurances strongly.
Some peoples sporting interest is football only. Fine. Some find pleasure in a host of sports.
Personally I applaud the plans for moving into other areas of sport. There are a number of common threats to sporting integrity – not least doping and betting cartels.
First, two sports in which Scotland has excelled.
Snooker, by the nature of the game has the potential for spot betting and has suffered allegations of both spot betting and match fixing in recent years.
Tennis by all accounts has one of the weaker drug testing programmes. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen a certain player take a “comfort break” when the flow of a match is going against him only to return utterly rejuvenated.
Then cycling. The full story of the Armstrong saga is yet to come out. The story was pursued by a lone wolf journalist who was sent to Coventry by large sections of the his fellow MSM journalists and the complicit administrators of the sport.
Nearly all sport is now big business and those who have invested large sums may be tempted to agitate for the rules to be drafted so as to be in the best interests of their investment not necessarily the best interests of the supporters and players.
The common theme that I think we nearly all agree on is that the MSM is a busted flush whether it be the press or SSB. The great danger of any online community or forum is that it becomes an echo chamber with everyone talking to the converted.
Fans of football and sport in general deserve better than the MSM. If something superior can be created that can reach out beyond the converted then I’m all for it and will support.
OutsideLookingIn says:
Member: (4 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 3:12 am
essexbeancounter says:
Member: (212 comments)
June 24, 2015 at 9:22 pm
…Sorry for the rant, personally I detest Directors who abuse Accounts and The Companies Act to their benefit and detriment of others.
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OutsideLookingIn…your rant is forgiven…! I have been “ranting” along these lines since early days of RTC…and I was starting to think that my alter ego had posted 😆
Since the first set of audited accounts, I have actually given up the firm’s audit registration…I wish I could say in protest against what passed for an unqualified audit opinion, but for other commercial reasons.
Finally, do keep “ranting”…you are in good company!
Lest They’ve Forgot
NUJ code of conduct – https://www.nuj.org.uk/about/nuj-code/
The NUJ’s code of conduct has set out the main principles of UK and Irish journalism since 1936. The code is part of the rules of our union.
All journalists joining the NUJ have to sign up and agree they will strive to adhere to its professional principles.
We encourage people to read and support the code of conduct and we ask members to promote it in the media industry.
If you are a member and you have a query about the code and its practical application, contact the union’s ethics council. – https://www.nuj.org.uk/work/nuj-ethics/
A journalist:
1. At all times upholds and defends the principle of media freedom, the right of freedom of expression and the right of the public to be informed.
2. Strives to ensure that information disseminated is honestly conveyed, accurate and fair.
3. Does her/his utmost to correct harmful inaccuracies.
4. Differentiates between fact and opinion.
5. Obtains material by honest, straightforward and open means, with the exception of investigations that are both overwhelmingly in the public interest and which involve evidence that cannot be obtained by straightforward means.
6. Does nothing to intrude into anybody’s private life, grief or distress unless justified by overriding consideration of the public interest.
7. Protects the identity of sources who supply information in confidence and material gathered in the course of her/his work.
8. Resists threats or any other inducements to influence, distort or suppress information and takes no unfair personal advantage of information gained in the course of her/his duties before the information is public knowledge.
9. Produces no material likely to lead to hatred or discrimination on the grounds of a person’s age, gender, race, colour, creed, legal status, disability, marital status, or sexual orientation.
10. Does not by way of statement, voice or appearance endorse by advertisement any commercial product or service save for the promotion of her/his own work or of the medium by which she/he is employed.
11. A journalist shall normally seek the consent of an appropriate adult when interviewing or photographing a child for a story about her/his welfare.
12. Avoids plagiarism.
The NUJ believes a journalist has the right to refuse an assignment or be identified as the author of editorial that would break the letter or spirit of the NUJ code of conduct.
The NUJ will support journalists who act according to the code.
NUJ code of conduct was updated in 2011.
TRFC’s AR01 has just been submitted to Companies House. There is nothing unusual in it as RIFC is named as the owner of 100% of the 33,415,200 shares.
However it does give a breakdown of how much was originally paid for each share. (The names are from my records)
19,225,200 at 1p (i.e. all of Green, Ahmad, Hughes, McCoist and half of Blue Pitch, Margarita, Norne Ansalt, Glenmuir, Mather & Ashley)
2,000,000 at 50p (incl. Gorbon, Gowans, Hart)
8,825,000 at 99p (incl. half of Blue Pitch, Margarita, Norne Ansalt, Glenmuir, Mather & Ashley)
3,365,000 at £1.00p (incl. Laxey, Eurovestech, Mackenzie , Bernstein and some Gorbon)
Perhaps the TSFM remit should include publically holding individuals in the MSM to the NUJ Code of Conduct – above – with particular attention to the most outrageous transgressions against points 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 10 & 12
mcfc says:
Member: (1429 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 1:06 pm
Perhaps the TSFM remit should include publically holding individuals in the MSM to the NUJ Code of Conduct – above – with particular attention to the most outrageous transgressions against points 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 10 & 12
—————————————–
MCFC – note you got an almost instantaneous thumbs down – one of the churnalists must be looking in 😉
Tincks says:
Member: (133 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 1:15 pm
MCFC – note you got an almost instantaneous thumbs down – one of the churnalists must be looking in ?
=========================================================
Tincks – I often get a TD within seconds of posting – sure I’m not alone in this. I like to think it’s Jim Traynor – and I’m getting under his skin – hi Jim – how’s it hangin’ you twisted old scroat 🙂
Can anyone explain how what is specifically described in the attached press release on 30 March 2000 as an investment in Rangers Football Club might qualify for a dividend in the Rangers Liquidation? BDO may of course have completed their adjudication process and found that the claim has no substance.
Perhaps the TSFM remit should include publically holding individuals in the MSM to the NUJ Code of Conduct –
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I concur,as long as all journalists are included regardless of their allegiances,we cannot make exceptions out of subjective bias and become the very organ we claim to oppose.
gercram says:
Member: (1 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 1:25 pm
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Sorry gercram – I can’t get past that first paragraph “to raise £53.1 million in cash, before expenses, in a Rights issue.”
Makes today’s moonbeams lack any ambition and grandeur.
Football Fan says:
Member: (2 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 1:53 pm
I concur,as long as all journalists are included regardless of their allegiances,we cannot make exceptions out of subjective bias and become the very organ we claim to oppose.
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definitely – bias and bull from all NUJ sources.
A Princely Sum
What price did King want from Ashley for his shares? Let’s say, half of the current 27.5p indicative price at J P Jenkins – remember them, the delisted, unlistable, untouchable RIFC plc’s market maker – http://lmmx.co.uk/companies/profile/rangers-international-foofball-club-plc/
That’s 11,869,505 x 13.75p = £1,632,056.94
So about two months’ worth of overspend or a piss poor warchest – assuming King decides to lent it to The Rangers unsecured and interest free.
What price did King want from Ashley for his shares?
================================================
I like the old adage ” extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence “,this is certainly an extraordinary claim by Phil.
mcfc says:
Member: (1433 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Tincks says:
Member: (133 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 1:15 pm
MCFC – note you got an almost instantaneous thumbs down – one of the churnalists must be looking in ?
=========================================================
Tincks – I often get a TD within seconds of posting…
===========================
Complaining about a TD, automatically attracts a TD from me ! 😉
I have a pet TD’er who TD’s me almost instantaneously.
I suppose it’s better than being ignored…so I take it as a compliment.
I’d just like to thank my personal TD’er whoever he/she is, and please keep reading my mince !
:weevickysignemoticon:
Plum Crazy
In the late 60s, early 70s the American muscle car business was reaching its outrageous, eco-vandal zenith before emission controls put elastic bands on their goolies. This was best exemplified by Mopar’s (Chrysler performance division) psychedelic color (sic) range which included Plum Crazy, Sub Lime, Hemi Orange, Sassy Grass, Furious Fuchsia, Go Mango, Citron Yella, and Top Banana. Matched with a 440 Six Pack (7.2 litre) or a 426 Hemi (7.0 litre) and 4 on the floor – these things could shred tarmac and drain an oil sheikh’s wallet – but only in a straight line you understand.
http://pictures.dealer.com/s/sanantoniocdjcllc/0090/75fe0ddd834d55c2b86887b0500d1852x.jpg
Now it looks like The Rangers may be officially acknowledging their plum crazy business model – or was it just Ashley “accidentally” transcribing the colour code on the order form?
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/is-this-a-leaked-image-of-a-new-rangers-kit-1-3811715
Yes, I am bored 🙂
mcfc says:
Member: (1434 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 3:38 pm
Plum Crazy
…
or was it just Ashley “accidentally” transcribing the colour code on the order form?
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/is-this-a-leaked-image-of-a-new-rangers-kit-1-3811715
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No mcfc.
It’s just a very clever piece of deliberate misdirection / marketing.
Just wait for the euphoria when it is eventually revealed that the colour was a ‘printing error’, and the tops are actually 0range !
That will get the bears onside, mibbees…
StevieBC says:
Member: (746 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 3:29 pm
I have a pet TD’er who TD’s me almost instantaneously.
===============================================================
If it’s the same TDer, I’m very disappointed. I thought it was personal and I was special. Say it ain’t so Jim, please say it ain’t so, it’s not what I wanna to hear Jim and I’ve gotta right to know.
Was that TD you StevieBC ?
StevieBC says:
Member: (747 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 3:55 pm
That will get the bears onside, mibbees…
============================================================
Remember that Ashley (RRL) gets full retail price for any that don’t sell – without even shipping the ISO containers from Vietnam – I’m surprised they don’t have pink frilly bits, a plunging neckline and lace up back.
and so it begins………………….
Celtic Football ClubVerified account
@celticfc
Fixture Update:
Celtic v Ross County: August 1, 2015 KO 12.45pm. (NM)
1st day of season,1st change for TV.
Football Fan says:
Member: (3 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 3:27 pm
What price did King want from Ashley for his shares?
================================================
I like the old adage ” extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence “,this is certainly an extraordinary claim by Phil.
======================================================
I think it’s fair to say that PMG has his head screwed on when it comes to lawyers and libel. If a recording does exist (perhaps a more extraordinary claim) then a legal challenge to his “offered shares” claim would be reckless and ill-advised. I assume he feels confident enough to put it out there and dare them to deny it. Who knows – he may have a transcript or an mp3. All’s fair in love and war.
Evening times sports headlines with pics, 13 yes 13 sevco items 2 Celtic and 1 Hearts……unreal…apparently Warburton will “ignite” scottish football. lovely eh?
Dundee Utd V Aberdeen moved to Aug 2nd.
Scottish teams should just refuse to move dates, sell their own product to their own supporters, let sky populate these times with lower league english football or move premier leage matches to those slots and be done with it, take 8% of revenue back into Scottish footballs hands and share and develop, be progressive, and get rid of Doncaster, he’s a disgrace.
Indy, the Evening Times readership was around 24,000 in 2014 and has since gone down. If you don’t like what they print, or don’t print, why not tell them that you’ll not buy the paper copy or read any of the online content for reasons X,Y and Z. Get some mates who feel the same way to do the same. If they don’t want your readership, there’s a cost.
Football Fan says: June 25, 2015 at 3:27 pm
What price did King want from Ashley for his shares?
==================================
I don’t know, but he paid 20.1p a share when he bought them from Artemis, Miton Capital and River & Mercantile on 2nd Jan.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Member: (145 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 4:25 pm
and so it begins………………….
Celtic Football ClubVerified account
@celticfc
Fixture Update:
Celtic v Ross County: August 1, 2015 KO 12.45pm. (NM)
1st day of season,1st change for TV.
______________________________________________________
Distance from Dingwall to Celtic Park is 180.2 miles.
Journey time on a good day is 3.5 hours by car. Its over 4.5 hours by train.
Which means setting off at 6.30 am, grabbing Breakfast at Broxden services and having no choice but to risk the CP pies for lunch.
Even another hour would make all the difference!
But its like they just don’t want people to go!
Hearts game moved also:
THE Scottish Premiership season will kick off with three live televised matches across the opening weekend.
Champions Celtic get the 2015/16 season raise the flag and get the new campaign underway against Ross County at Celtic Park on Saturday August 1 at 12.45pm.
ADVERTISING
The following day (Sunday August 2) at 12.30pm Hearts play St Johnstone at Tynecastle with Dundee United at home v Aberdeen later in the afternoon at 3.30pm. Both matches are live on BT Sport.
Further fixture changes and announcements are expected in the coming weeks.
The SPFL were heavily criticised towards the end of last season over the scheduling of the closing run of matches.
Neil Doncaster, SPFL chief executive, said: “The anticipation is really building ahead of the big kick-off on August 1 and 2.
“We’re really pleased to have the support of two of the world’s leading sports broadcasters in Sky Sports and BT Sport and to be able to bring 270 minutes of live Ladbrokes Premiership action on the opening weekend, not only to fans of those clubs but to Scottish football supporters across the UK.”
indy14 says:
Member: (23 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Evening times…apparently Warburton will “ignite” scottish football…
=============================
Well if he doesn’t ignite TRFC, he’ll certainly go stale very quickly…
Apologies in advance.
I’ll get ma bread bin. 🙄
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Member: (146 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 5:16 pm
…
The SPFL were heavily criticised towards the end of last season over the scheduling of the closing run of matches.
Neil Doncaster, SPFL chief executive, said: “The anticipation is really building ahead of the big kick-off on August 1 and 2…”
===========================================
Doncaster – and the clubs to be fair – just don’t seem to give a monkey’s !
Shirley, at the very least, all the first league games of the season should be at 3pm on a Saturday – to try and encourage new or returning supporters to stadiums ?
blu says:
Member: (184 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 5:02 pm
indy14 says:
June 25, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Evening times sports headlines with pics, 13 yes 13 sevco items 2 Celtic and 1 Hearts……unreal…apparently Warburton will “ignite” scottish football. lovely eh?
Indy, the Evening Times readership was around 24,000 in 2014 and has since gone down. If you don’t like what they print, or don’t print, why not tell them that you’ll not buy the paper copy or read any of the online content for reasons X,Y and Z. Get some mates who feel the same way to do the same. If they don’t want your readership, there’s a cost.
I was a loyal (should that be faithful) purchaser of the Evening Times for more than 35 years, having it delivered every night. Since the liquidation of Rangers I have been so annoyed at the coverage in the ET that I cancelled my order and don’t look at it at all.
Many nights it gave a 3rd, 2nd, insert your own, division team as much if not more coverage than the League Champions and allowed an ex Rangers player to spout all sorts of untruths every week.
Can’t the Editor and owners not see that to toady to one select group they antagonise supporters of other teams. It’s hardly surprising that their circulation is falling month on month.
Good Evening.
There’s nothing worse than a derivative sequel.
However, that hasn’t stopped me from writing a short follow-up to ‘Billy and Chris’, imaginatively entitled ‘Billy and Chris [Part 2]’, wherein Chris Jack’s second Warburton-hyping piece of the day is given the Clumpany treatment…
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/06/25/billy-and-chris-part-2/
Have a good evening!
I think it’s fair to say that PMG has his head screwed on when it comes to lawyers and libel. If a recording does exist (perhaps a more extraordinary claim) then a legal challenge to his “offered shares” claim would be reckless and ill-advised. I assume he feels confident enough to put it out there and dare them to deny it. Who knows – he may have a transcript or an mp3. All’s fair in love and war.
=========================================================================
I like to believe the onus of proof lies with the claimant,and one cannot consider an extraordinary claim to be true just because it has not been proven false or denied.
If i recall Phil has received a legal threat before and failed to advise his readership until months later,i remain skeptical awaiting extraordinary evidence.
All humans suffer from cognitive bias and journalist are human,i did say we should be consistent with regard to any input,but you seem to feel Phil should be an exception to this rule.
Football fan
Works both ways though. If king and his hack pack was keeping schtoom I might be minded to agree. But they’re not. They are continuing to tell us that black is white, the earth is flat and that gravity doesn’t exist. You can’t have it both ways.
Works both ways though. If king and his hack pack was keeping schtoom I might be minded to agree. But they’re not. They are continuing to tell us that black is white, the earth is flat and that gravity doesn’t exist. You can’t have it both ways
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Since i do not consider two wrongs make a right nor accept any claim without support,i fail to see how i am having it both ways.
If we are aiming to be an all inclusive blog, aimed at the vast majority of sports fans, we could do well to think of some of the nom de plume used by some of our respected posters. To the outsider, it would appear that this is a Celtictrentic site, or at worse, anti The Rangers, although lots of us tuped over from RTC and carried our monikers with us, I would like to think we are so much more than pro Celtic and anti the Ibrox club. I expect the number of TDs will be indicative of the members feelings on this matter. ( Standing by for deluge )
The Clumpany. More power to your pen my friend, I had a we smile at your William and Billy posts. The Sevconians may take all the brickbats thrown at them, but if you continue to laugh at them, that I think they will not be handle, Laughter is a very potent weapon as has been proved many times in the past. I look forward to more smiles on my part. Cheers.
The amount of thumbs down Football Fan is receiving is unwarranted. I can see the point he’s making, and have been thinking about it myself, even if he’s being a bit too subtle.
Phil has been very specific in his reporting on DK’s “offer” and folks should re-read the actual language used in this piece:
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/dave-king-offered-his-shares-to-ashley-at-meeting-on-june-12th/
Just to clarify, I have no doubt that DK would be prepared to sell out if the price was right.
Just to clarify, I have no doubt that DK would be prepared to sell out if the price was right.
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Perhaps,although i feel he would offer his shares to someone who had not been refused permission to buy more shares.
Football Fan says:
Member: (5 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 6:58 pm
‘….,i did say we should be consistent with regard to any input,but you seem to feel Phil should be an exception to this rule.’
_________
Several times today I heard on BBC Radio 4 news bulletins ” the BBC understands that Mr Cameron….”
Conventionally, that kind of language is taken to mean that a BBC reporter, trusted by the BBC, has heard some piece of news from a source that he/she normally finds reliable, but cannot himself swear to it from his/her own knowledge.
Most of us on this blog treat PMcG’s items as being of a similar status, that is, he has been told something by someone in a position to know and whom he trusts enough to believe what he has been told.
That is, we accept that what Phil reports is what he thinks is true, relying on someone whom he trusts.
A healthy scepticism is, of course, an essential ingredient of an enquiring mind.And by the lord Harry, we’ve all learned to be extremely sceptical of the SMSM because their entire discourse on the saga is dependent on them maintaining the BIG Lie. Anything they have to say is therefore instantly questionable.
This blog has no need to lie, cheat, simulate or dissimulate.We can leave that to the practised , glib directors of a new football club, to its PR people and to the lickspittle hacks of the SMSM (some honourable individuals excepted).
And Phil McG has no need to lie, either. His report is an honest one. He may, possibly, have been mislead, just as even BBC Radio 4 News might be mislead.
But, like the BBC, he is entitled to report what he has heard from informants whom he trusts.
Football Fan says:
Member: (6 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 8:50 pm
I have some sympathy with the points you are making regarding the reliability of the latest revelations in PMG’s blog. However I think you are failing to understand how journalism works.
A journalist relies on sources. Some of these are in the public domain, but that’s the stuff we could all find out for ourselves, if we could be bothered. Real journalists rely on their contacts on the inside of a story. If the journalist is confident of what he is told by his sources, then he will publish, and be damned. What he will never do is reveal his sources.
My question for you is this- if PMG’s story was in the Daily Record or the Scotsman, would you accept it as true if it went unchallenged? And if you would believe the story if it was published in the newspapers and not challenged, then why is PMG’s blog tested to a higher standard?
Most of us on this blog treat PMcG’s items as being of a similar status,
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And yet Phil has stated on a number of occasions a normally reliable source has let him down and got it wrong,in lightof this evidence i will remain consistent and skeptical toward extraordinary claims.
If the BBC reported David Cameron had offered to make Ed Milliband Prime Minister of the country weeks after a General Election victory,i would want extraordinary evidence.
Football Fan says:
Member: (5 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 6:58 pm
I like to believe the onus of proof lies with the claimant,and one cannot consider an extraordinary claim to be true just because it has not been proven false or denied.
If i recall Phil has received a legal threat before and failed to advise his readership until months later,i remain skeptical awaiting extraordinary evidence.
All humans suffer from cognitive bias and journalist are human,i did say we should be consistent with regard to any input,but you seem to feel Phil should be an exception to this rule.
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My comments were made in relation to the NUJ Code of Conduct. Which item(s) do you think PMG has disrespected. You seem to regard journalism as science, requiring peer reviewed data, full disclosure and repeatable protocols. This is often the first defence of those who have a closed mind on certain topics. That is, “there is no proof beyond all reasonable doubt so I chose not to believe it. “
I respect PMG’s output because he seems to have had good contacts over several years and several regimes – and has a pretty good track record on the important turns of event. As far as I can see no one is disagreeing with his “extraordinary” claims – which suggests they are not so extraordinary and easily rubbished. Some who know the precise details of events have much to gain from discrediting his account – yet stay silent.
If he’s got it extraordinarily wrong he will damage his professional credibility and face potentially ruinous libel action. Until then he offers one viewpoint to juxtapose with others, for the reader to evaluate and form their own opinions.
If I was a betting man, and I am, I’d have a few quid on the offer having taken place and there being good evidence to back up the reported events – but that’s just me.
John Clark says:
Member: (915 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 8:56 pm
Football Fan says:
Member: (5 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 6:58 pm
‘….,i did say we should be consistent with regard to any input,but you seem to feel Phil should be an exception to this rule.’
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Several times today I heard on BBC Radio 4 news bulletins ” the BBC understands that Mr Cameron
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John, I accept 100% what you say to be correct, but I would add that agendas are at play here, and truths can be supplied alongside misinformation at times. It has been confirmed that the meeting did in fact take place, but as yet the topic, or subject matter of the meeting cannot as yet be stated as fact.
I think you are failing to understand how journalism works.
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I think you may be wrong,that is the beauty of freedom of expression.
My question for you is this- if PMG’s story was in the Daily Record or the Scotsman, would you accept it as true if it went unchallenged?
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I would not believe any extraordinary claim based om it being unchallenged,i thought i had made myself perfectly clear on this point
Football Fan says:
Member: (8 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 9:39 pm
I would not believe ant extraordinary claim based om it being unchallenged,i thought i had myself perfectly clear on this point
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Where did this term “extraordinary claim” come from – I don’t regard anything as extraordinary when it comes to Dave King, who has a demonstrably loose grip on what most of us regard as reality, truth and ethics.
Until the rebranding, the tag line of this site is “The Scottish Football Monitor: Asking the questions the media won’t ask”
With regard to the above, I’d like to ask a couple of questions, one leading on to the next.
1) Do Rangers have retail contracts which benefit parties other than Rangers?
2) Do said contracts have a (frankly ridiculous) seven year notice period?
3) the question above all questions, which informs us all as to whether Rangers are in fact being run in any way, whether well or badly; given that said retail contracts, using information in the public domain, are demonstrably beneficial to parties other than Rangers and are subject to a seven year notice period for cancellation, has notice been given?
I repeat, has notice been given?
The parties in charge of Rangers now have been there for a period of months. If the contract is so bad, notice must have been given immediately. If it wasn’t, what is written into the contract that is so bad that notice can’t be given?
Mcfc. Absolutely.
You seem to regard journalism as science, requiring peer reviewed data, full disclosure and repeatable protocols. This is often the first defence of those who have a closed mind on certain topics. That is, “there is no proof beyond all reasonable doubt so I chose not to believe it. “
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Skepticism and reasonable proof is not confined to science,science is provisional not dogmatic,it is the opposite of a closed mind,it requires an open mind to accept evidence that proves something is false.
Excuse me for questioning a journalist’s claim.
RyanGosling says:
Member: (166 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 9:57 pm
Good question – an educated guess, that the notice period is triggered by one party taking action to terminate the contract eg one party exercising a right to buy out the other. I remember detailed discussion here of SD’s rights to buy out RIFC, so there are probably similar, but loaded, terms for RIFC to buy out SD. So the answer to your question is almost certainly that RIFC can’t afford the cash to terminate the contract by buying out SD to trigger the seven year notice period. Which may have been one of many surprises for the New Regime when they gained control and read the paperwork.
Where did this term “extraordinary claim” come from
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All the available evidence contradicts this claim,or do you think evidence is only for closed minds?
Football Fan says:
Member: (5 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 6:58 pm
but you seem to feel Phil should be an exception to this rule.
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So back to your original comment. How am I treating PMG as “an exception to this rule.”
Football Fan says:
Member: (10 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:12 pm
Where did this term “extraordinary claim” come from
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All the available evidence contradicts this claim,or do you think evidence is only for closed minds?
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What evidence contradicts this claim ?
Dave King’s involvement with The Rangers has got me truly baffled. Phil MGB alleges that King tried to offload his shares, but if this is the case, why oh why did he go to so much bother to buy shares and worm himself into a position of power in the first place? Surely as a man so interested in The Rangers’ affairs he would have had some advance idea of the precarious state of the finances, which is blindingly obvious to most posters on here.
If, as it appears, he never had any intention of pouring his own money down the black hole, what would he imagine was his way forward with this loss making outfit?
However, his last public show seems to have been at Ibrox for the first leg of the Motherwell play-off. I suspect that was in expectation of milking a triumphant win. He failed to show at the 2nd leg probably for the opposite reason and seems to have been invisible ever since. Why would King change his mind so soon? My only fragile theory is that the failure to gain the Premiership has dealt a fatal blow to his plan for some reason which I cannot fathom.
Yet against all the odds the circus rumbles on, bringing in new players, albeit in limited quality and quantity, a new managing director etc seemingly with the intention of contesting another season completely in defiance of financial gravity.
I just don’t get it.
I repeat, has notice been given?
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The contacts may still be legally challenged or renegotiated,i would imagine new inventory levels have been adjusted to suit new sales projections.
IF sales have dropped by 90% then SD only get the 90% once,and from them on they will only get the lion’s share of 10%,don’t think anyone is winning in this tussle.
Mcfc
Normally there would be no such requirement merely the communication of one party to the contract that notice is given analogous to a notice to quit under a lease. Only if the intention was to end the contract early would the agreement of the other party be required and a deal be hammered out.
After the notice is given then the contract might be under a quasi gardening leave situation the other party agrees to a new contract being sought elsewhere. That would depend on the guarantees on the SD contract being balanced against the benefits of a new contract elsewhere.
The above seems ludicrous but that might not mean it is untrue.
The consensus around EGM time is that MA was not represented but was there not a very large SD lorry outside Ibrox then, perhaps a large number of of unbought shirts etc was being delivered to TRFC with a big invoice to follow. That seems good representation to me.
extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof is not an adage I have seen before. I merely ask why?
As to the idea that there was an extraordinary claim by PMG it seems to me that the allegations about DCK were far from extraordinary even in normal events and in the actual circumstances fit into the known patterns of behaviour by DCK
It’s been a while since we had one of these evenings.
Someone got up Bryce ‘n early, I mean nice ‘n early today 🙄
What evidence contradicts this claim ?
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DK bought shares through a family trust.
DK organized a concert party to install him as Chairman.
DK sought approval from two authorities to be Chairman of Rangers.
DK has only made statements to the opposite.
This is just plain old fashioned ordinary evidence,and when someone claims the opposite it is classified as extraordinary in anyone’s language.
The claim is actually bizarre if you ask me,just bizarre.
MCFC,
If there is a notice period to get out of the contract, then surely there can’t be conditions attached when providing notice to void the contract.
Another point I have seen raised here repeatedly is the thought of Mr Ashley “ring-fencing” money to repay his loan. He can’t do that. He has security over the loans. He can’t ring fence money and effectively take two securities, it doesn’t work that way.
Ring fencing when the loan is in default might be prudent as well as acceptable particularly when the debtor appears to be in trouble. I do not know if there is a default but it would be bizarre to think that MA has given a loan with no mechanism for repayment- that would be a quasi EBT. There is no possibility of that route is there -say it ain’t so.
RyanGosling says:
Member: (167 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:36 pm
MCFC,
If there is a notice period to get out of the contract, then surely there can’t be conditions attached when providing notice to void the contract.
Another point I have seen raised here repeatedly is the thought of Mr Ashley “ring-fencing” money to repay his loan. He can’t do that. He has security over the loans. He can’t ring fence money and effectively take two securities, it doesn’t work that way.
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Sounds about right to me Ryan. I have no special knowledge but would have assumed the same on both counts.
A notice period would presumably not require any further condition other than to see out the period in good faith after giving the required notice.
And seems to me you are correct about ring fencing money, surely Ashley’s play would be to claim ownership or force sale of the assets to repay the defaulted loan.
indy14 says:
Member: (23 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Evening times sports headlines with pics, 13 yes 13 sevco items 2 Celtic and 1 Hearts……unreal…apparently Warburton will “ignite” scottish football. lovely eh?
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Indy,
Could you give an indication of whether the pieces were positive, or negative wrt the main subject, or maybe they’re neutral? I’d guess the 13 about the nearly new TRFC are positive? Maybe sycophantic or even euphoric?
How am I treating PMG as “an exception to this rule.”
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Because you have a closed mind to one journalist and this is called ” the special pleading defense” which is a logical fallacy.
Is it possible Phil’s source got it wrong?
What was the context,was it a joke,a wind up or what?
bfbpuzzled says:
Member: (195 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:32 pm
bfbpuzzled says:
Member: (195 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:32 pm
Take your point about “There would normally be” but I think there is little normal about this deal. It seems that Ashley has presented his “retail contract for dummies” and RIFC have just signed it – possibly without reading/understanding it – it’s a kind of tradition at Ibrox – either out of naivety or ulterior motives.
Matty Roth says:
Member: (190 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:44 pm
RyanGosling says:
Member: (167 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:36 pm
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The ring fencing would come into play if RIFC are in default of the loan agreeemnt eg breach of confidentiality terms, board member clause not honoured etc.
Definitely a familiar taste to some of the offerings tonight…
A desperate need to mercilessly argue the most obtuse point over and over..
i wouldnt be surprised at all if, following the sale of ’45 thousand’ season tickets, the proceeds may be found ‘resting’ in a non resident’s bank account.
Personally, i dont care if King was flogging shares or asking Ashley on a date, i find the man to be ungraciously dull.
Charles Green, now there was a showman. A showboating, good time two faced huckster. But he was good at it ol’ big hands.
King, he is dull. Tells lies in a gloomy manner, and now he has disappeared. And where is the mythical warchest?!
Hiding under a bridge with the rest of his trolls. Keep on trolling Dave ☺
Football Fan says:
Member: (13 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:35 pm
What evidence contradicts this claim ?
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DK bought shares through a family trust.
DK organized a concert party to install him as Chairman.
DK sought approval from two authorities to be Chairman of Rangers.
DK has only made statements to the opposite.
This is just plain old fashioned ordinary evidence,and when someone claims the opposite it is classified as extraordinary in anyone’s language.
The claim is actually bizarre if you ask me,just bizarre.
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You list some of the evidence – but it seems selelctive. What about he was unabkle to secure a Nomad. He lost AIM listing and has not gained ISDX listing, He lost the auditor. He has not challenged a single contract in the courts. He has not published a buisiness plan as promised several times. His description of his own investment has never been the same twice. He has not invested personally and has not attracted investment. So he is in a tricky situation – which he may want to get out of any way he can. So not extraordinary at all.
Who’s got the closed mind ?
mcfc says:
Member: (1445 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Matty Roth says:
Member: (190 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:44 pm
RyanGosling says:
Member: (167 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:36 pm
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The ring fencing would come into play if RIFC are in default of the loan agreeemnt eg breach of confidentiality terms, board member clause not honoured etc.
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So even if SD already have security for the loan, on default they could ignore the agreed security and go after a legal action to secure repayment in some other way?
I’ve zero legal knowledge so please excuse the question if its stupid.
I suppose perhaps thats possible and the security simply “expires” when the loan is repaid through the ring fencing action.
I doubt there is a default for immediate repayment,there would have been no need for any EGM and it would have happened by now.
I think the posters on this issue are mistaken. If Mr Ashley could ring fence funds to repay his loan, what would be the point in securing the loans? If the loan is in default, he can call in the security. He has no further recourse. And there is no indication the loan is in default.
Matty Roth says:
Member: (192 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 10:54 pm
So even if SD already have security for the loan, on default they could ignore the agreed security and go after a legal action to secure repayment in some other way?
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The devils are in the deatils of the contract – but in general – default on a loan usually triggers repayment in full pdq. The loaner usually just wants their money back – not some assets they have no use for and have to sell – possibly not covering their full loss. If there is money (ST money) and the debtor won’t pay, the first target is the money, assets you can”t sell quickly and easily are a poor second. The IP may prove valuable to Ashley but the physical assets only have emotional threat value.
MCFC,
Think of it like a mortgage. Mr Ashley loaned funds to Rangers win security over certain properties and IP rights. A bank lends you funds for a mortgage secured on your house. If you default in your payments the bank may sell your house, but they can’t ring fence your wages. Mr Asheley could potentially sell certain properties in the event of default, but he couldn’t just seize season ticket money on a whim.
RyanGosling says:
Member: (168 comments)
June 25, 2015 at 11:02 pm
I think the posters on this issue are mistaken. If Mr Ashley could ring fence funds to repay his loan, what would be the point in securing the loans? If the loan is in default, he can call in the security. He has no further recourse. And there is no indication the loan is in default.
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agree – Ashley can’t have repayment and the security – but money is usually preferable to assets which can be a long, costly legal road. Once the money is paid the security is released. But bear in mind the contract may include penalties for default – just like Wonga – so the settlement may be considerably more than £5mil in default. The security remains until the debt is paid in full.
What about he was unabkle to secure a Nomad. He lost AIM listing and has not gained ISDX listing, He lost the auditor.
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Irrelevant considering his recent Chairmanship,in fact he stated if it was up to him he would prefer Rangers not to be a PLC,and yet you are saying this is contradictory evidence?
He has not challenged a single contract in the courts. He has not published a buisiness plan as promised several times.
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You must be tired,sorry DK is not working fast enough for yo.
His description of his own investment has never been the same twice. He has not invested personally and has not attracted investment.
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Nit picking between family trust and personal is pointless,you don;t know if he has attracted investment and his varying promises of investment was part of my evidence,hands off.
So he is in a tricky situation – which he may want to get out of any way he can. So not extraordinary at all.
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Except you provided no evidence he is in a tricky situation never mind a situation that forces him to go on his knees to his arch rival and beg him to buy his shares,knowing he cannot and would not !
Sorry we must agree to disagree.